The Messy Parts with Maryam Banikarim
Episode: Sarah Personette: Choosing Kindness
Date: August 18, 2025
Episode Overview
In this episode, Maryam Banikarim sits down with Sarah Personette, CEO of Puck, for a candid and vulnerable conversation about building resilience, the realities behind professional success, and the foundational role of kindness in leadership. Sarah unpacks her journey from a civically engaged childhood in Illinois to running major media organizations, reflecting on early setbacks, career pivots, and upholding her values—especially kindness—as a structural force in her life and work. The discussion covers coping with adversity, trusting one’s instincts, leading through disruption, and managing work-life balance, offering both practical insights and thought-provoking anecdotes for listeners at all stages of their career.
Key Discussion Points & Insights
1. Early Life and the Seeds of Leadership
[01:48–05:04]
- Sarah shares formative childhood experiences, highlighting her parents’ civic engagement and leadership in the community as influences on her early aspiration to lead.
- Inspiration from her father’s Rotary Club speech:
“We are too good not to be better.”
—Sarah Personette, citing her father [03:37] - Early experiences in student government, including repeated election losses, and how these moments taught her about persistence, risk, and resilience.
2. Coping with Hardship: Building Inner Resilience
[05:20–07:53]
- Contrary to perceptions of a “picture-perfect” childhood, Sarah faced significant family adversity around age 8 or 9 involving mental health and trauma.
- These hardships led to coping mechanisms that became critical for her resilience:
“Things that for many people when they’re hit with one of the hardships would be knocked down. I can be hit with five and I can still stand up. And I know that that’s a gift, but it’s a gift that came at a very significant expense.”
—Sarah Personette [05:20] - Both Maryam and Sarah discuss the paradox of wanting to shield their own children from difficulty, yet knowing that resilience is often built through adversity.
3. The Value of Losing and Failing
[08:03–10:57]
- Sarah recounts a long track record of both wins and losses in school elections, learning not to tie her identity to titles or external validations.
- On reframing setbacks:
“My identity is not connected to titles. It’s not connected to companies. It’s not connected to winning an election or losing an election.”
—Sarah Personette [11:14] - The importance of not treating success as a zero-sum game, both in families and professional teams.
4. Making Nontraditional Career Choices
[13:20–19:49]
- Sarah describes choosing Northwestern and then taking a leap into media with Starcom, influenced by gut instinct and systems thinking, even against her father’s pragmatic career advice.
- On trusting her gut:
“In that moment, it didn’t feel like a risk. It felt like this is absolutely the right thing to do.”
—Sarah Personette [17:46] - Key leadership lessons from working in female-led environments and the positive impact on her ambitions and worldview.
5. Navigating Messy Workplaces and Undermining
[22:18–25:28]
- Sarah opens up about a difficult period in her leadership when a few colleagues actively opposed her presence, sharing both the emotional impact and her strategy for resilience:
“Lead for the 997, not for the 3.”
—Sarah Personette [23:16] - Emphasizes the necessity of finding safe spaces for support and the limits on perseverance:
“If you haven’t resolved it in a three month time frame, like action needs to be taken.”
—Sarah Personette [25:12] - Leadership is about upholding values, not pleasing everyone.
6. Values-Driven Leadership
[25:54–27:20]
- Sarah names her core values: kindness, integrity, fairness, being tough, and being inclusive.
- She applies evidence-based decision-making—debating principles and evidence, not just beliefs.
7. Pursuing Learning Over Titles & Money
[27:20–30:00]
- Sarah’s career moves (including to Facebook and later Twitter) prioritized learning and growth over money or prestige, even at the expense of taking lateral or step-down roles.
- On handling the perception of job-hopping:
“I firmly believe in loyalty to companies...for as long as you can meet the company and the company can meet you.”
- Family support and having the courage to chase learning are recurring themes—even when loved ones disagree with her decisions.
8. The Leap to CEO at Puck & Embracing Disruption
[31:35–39:48]
- After a break, Sarah chose Puck’s CEO role because of its creator-centric, journalist-first model—likened to product-and-engineering in tech.
- The disruption in media (AI, fragmentation) is “energizing,” not terrifying, for Sarah:
“Opportunity can come from volatility…Right now, we are relearning the growth playbook. Like, how cool. When do you get presented with that in your career where you get to completely shift and create a new paradigm?”
—Sarah Personette [38:20]
9. Navigating Work, Family, and Identity
[39:48–44:23]
- Both Maryam and Sarah discuss the challenge of being present parents and high-performing executives.
- Sarah sets clear boundaries: “No company is going to hug you 10 years from now. I’m very clear on who is going to hug me 10 years from now. That’s my husband, and that is my two boys.” [41:16]
- Pivoted her approach during COVID, putting family at the center, and accepting that true balance is sometimes messy and imperfect.
Notable Quotes & Moments
-
On overcoming adversity:
“I have had people, especially in my childhood, say like, it doesn’t seem like anything affects you. And I’m like, it affects me. I just, I process it super quickly and don’t look back, just look forward. Like, what can I learn from this experience? And then how can I move forward?”
—Sarah Personette [06:56] -
On ego and leadership:
“I am never the smartest person in the room. I might be the hardest working person in the room. I might be the kindest person in the room, but I’m definitely not the smartest.”
—Sarah Personette [31:14] -
On kindness as a structural force:
“Kindness is not just a value, it’s actually a structural force. I’ve been asked to come back to three different companies, and it is not because I am the smartest person in the room. It’s because of the way that I made people feel when I left the room. And I think that our world could use a little more kindness.”
—Sarah Personette [44:23]
Quickfire Segment – Get to Know Sarah
[43:30–44:47]
- Walk-on song: "Unstoppable" by Sia
- Food for a potluck: Whispering Angel rosé
- Alternative career: Teach (preschool, not investment banking!)
- Reading now: "The Tell" (Amy Griffin) and "Hidden Potential" (Adam Grant)
- Surprise fact: “I am a horrible cook.”
- Parting advice: (See “kindness as a structural force” quote above)
Useful Timestamps
- Defining Leadership & Early Influences: [02:13–05:04]
- Coping with Hardship & Resilience: [05:20–07:53]
- On Losing and Identity: [10:57–13:14]
- Making Unconventional Career Moves: [15:37–19:49]
- Navigating Hostile Work Environments: [22:34–25:28]
- Articulating Core Values: [25:54–27:20]
- Switching From Titles to Learning: [27:20–30:00]
- CEO at Puck & Disruption in Media: [31:35–39:48]
- Work-Life Balance & Identity: [39:48–44:23]
- Quickfire Round: [43:30–44:47]
Tone and Language
Throughout the conversation, Sarah is candid, vulnerable, and thoughtful. Maryam’s warmth and curiosity elicit deep reflection on messy moments, turning setbacks into lessons, and the philosophy that kindness in action is a true leadership superpower.
Summary prepared for listeners seeking key lessons, memorable moments, and actionable inspiration from Sarah Personette’s remarkable, “messy” journey.