Podcast Summary: The Messy Parts

Episode: The Real Cost of Staying Silent at Work with Brooke Baldwin

Host: Maryam Banikarim
Guest: Brooke Baldwin
Date: November 10, 2025

Episode Overview

This candid episode features journalist and former CNN anchor Brooke Baldwin in a heartfelt conversation with host Maryam Banikarim. Focusing on the high personal and professional cost of "staying silent" at work, the conversation explores Brooke’s journey—from achieving her dream job to losing it, grappling with societal and personal expectations, and ultimately finding a new path. The discussion is raw and revealing, touching on regret, resilience, authenticity, and the importance of speaking one's truth—even when it comes at a price.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Power and Peril of Intuition at Work

• Trusting Your Inner Voice:
  • Brooke emphasizes that everyone has intuition when something at work isn’t right:

    "Every one of us has that little voice, that intuition within ourselves, and it's never wrong. We have to listen to it." (12:59)

  • She cautions not to overreact at the first sign, but to pay attention if misgivings persist:

    "If that voice is consistently sending you the same message, speak Up. I waited too late... I would like to believe [my boss] would have done something about it sooner." (12:59)

2. Embracing “Mess” and the Concept of Unraveling

• From ‘Mess’ to Creation:
  • Brooke relates to “unraveling” as a necessary act of creation born from destruction:

    "Unraveling to me is an act of creation that can only come out of destruction." (01:48)

  • Maryam reframes “mess” as essential to authentic success:

    "You have to go through the mess to actually get to success." (02:00)

• Letting Go of Armor:
  • Brooke discusses shedding the professional and personal armor she’d developed—symbolized even in the way she wore her hair as a news anchor.

3. Career Trajectory and “Killing Them With Kindness”

• Brooke’s Path to CNN:
  • Her commitment and refusal to leave CNN as a freelancer—even "squatting" in the office—ultimately led to her full-time role:

    "Kill them with kindness. I'm not leaving this office that I am squatting in..." (04:51)

• Being the ‘Yes Girl’:
  • Brooke reflects on the downside:

    "When you’re the yes girl, you ultimately get taken advantage of." (05:44)

• Navigating Corporate Politics:
  • “Being the squeaky wheel” vs. politeness, especially for women in high-pressure environments.

4. The Political and Cultural Shifts in News Media

(06:34–07:34)

• Watershed Moments at CNN:
  • The Trump election era marked a dramatic shift in news coverage priorities and contributed to Brooke’s discomfort with the direction:

    "It went from a broad selection of stories to just like a fire hose of one...that's when it started becoming a bit unpleasant." (06:34)

• Feeling Sidelined:
  • Significant emotional distress came when she was repeatedly sidelined or taken off major coverage, especially the 2020 election:

    "It's like running a marathon...and then all of a sudden, the last 0.2 miles, I'm yanked. It felt terrible." (08:58)

5. The Emotional Cost of “Masking” and Staying Silent

(09:49–11:26)

• The Price of Armor:
  • Brooke and Maryam both describe the pain of hiding emotional distress at work, confiding only in a small circle, and keeping up appearances.
• Regrets About Not Speaking Up:
  • Brooke shares that her biggest regret is waiting too long to speak up about mistreatment:

    "For a long time...I was complicit in my own self silencing." (11:29)

6. How (and When) to Speak Up

(13:39–14:24)

• Grace and Ferocity:
  • Brooke believes in raising concerns with specificity and grace:

    "Have specifics...so you can point to things and it’s not just this nebulous complaint...follow up with an email, send the three bullet points and wait." (13:49)

• Accepting Risks:
  • Both note that speaking up can have consequences, so always have plan B and C ready (14:17).

7. The Aftermath—Coping with Being Let Go

(15:36–16:23)

• Seek Support:
  • Brooke suggests finding community with others in similar situations.
• Allowing Emotions:
  • She encourages feeling all the feelings—anger, sadness—and assessing skills and next steps:

    "Feel all the feelings. Don't try to zip it up...network...to try to find that next position." (15:44)

8. The Danger and Shame of Silence

(16:31–20:32)

• Living a “Charade”:
  • Brooke’s inability to tell the truth due to non-disclosure agreements mirrored her family experience hiding messy realities.
• Breaking the Silence = Healing:
  • Speaking out, first in a TED Talk and then in writing, brought immense relief:

    "I only realized through therapy post firing...being part of this charade...mirrored my childhood...Now I see it as a gift of being fired." (19:21)

9. Navigating Identity After Loss & Reinvention

(38:13–39:17)

• Letting Go of Titles:
  • Redefining oneself outside of former job titles or roles is hard but necessary.
  • Brooke’s new self-introduction:

    "I am a journalist. I am a writer. I am a TV host. I'm a truth seeker. And I’m still figuring it out." (38:35)

• Advice:
  • Be honest with others—and yourself—about being in transition, and don’t be afraid to say “I’m figuring it out.”

10. Personal Transformation: Therapy, Coaching, and The Hoffman Institute

(32:54–34:32)

• Relentless Self-Work:
  • Therapy, life coaching, and transformational experiences like the Hoffman Institute helped Brooke gain clarity and courage:

    "The Hoffman Institute is like summer camp for the soul...I knew I needed to find the courage to leave my marriage." (33:01)

• Surrender and Slowing Down:
  • Surrendering to uncertainty, slowing down, and trusting the process marked a fundamental shift:

    "Surrender has been a huge part of my practice...Slowing down has been huge for me." (35:11)

11. Lessons for Listeners & Practical Advice

• On Money and Freedom:
  • Saving money enabled both career and personal reinvention:

    "If I hadn't had that, I wouldn't be sitting here talking to you...I would have been in a totally different place." (31:40)

• On Trying New Things:
  • The importance of “opening the aperture”—being willing to see new possibilities for yourself beyond a dream job.
• On Courage and Identity:
  • Courage comes from getting still, trusting intuition, and sometimes taking blind leaps:

    "It's almost like this blind willfulness...I'm gonna dive into this new space...it's a risk. It's a gut instinct..." (29:55)

• On Messiness:
  • The mess never fully ends; learning to coexist with it is part of life.

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• Brooke on Intuition:

  "Every one of us has that little voice, that intuition within ourselves, and it's never wrong." (12:59)

• Maryam on Career Endings:

  "The ending of your dream job can actually just be the beginning of your new life." (41:58)

• Brooke on Opening Up:

  "I never even said out loud I was fired till this year. Four years in...And that felt like such a release." (19:21)

• On Financial Independence:

  "Go make your own money. Do not rely on someone...That gave me the freedom to bet on myself." (31:40)

• On Change:

  "Don't feel like you have to pigeonhole yourself in one thing forever." (40:45)

• On Messiness as the Human Condition:

  "[Maria Shriver said] 'Brooke, how fucking lucky. Look at your life...You’re not in a mess. This is your life.'" (37:00)

• On Speaking Up:

  "Not speak up when I'm not being treated well." (40:56)

• On Reinvention:

  "Lose a job, find a life. Oh, 100%. Yes." (41:36)

Timestamps for Key Segments

• Opening Thoughts, Introduction to the Mess (00:00–02:09)
• Brooke’s Early Career & CNN Journey (02:09–05:18)
• 'Killing Them With Kindness' & Being the Yes Girl (05:18–06:34)
• Newsroom Shifts Post-2016 (06:34–07:34)
• Becoming Sidelined & Emotional Impact (07:34–09:50)
• The Armor We Wear at Work (09:50–11:27)
• Regrets and Advice on Speaking Up (11:27–14:24)
• Aftermath & Dealing with Layoffs (15:36–16:23)
• Masking, Non-disclosure, and Shame (16:31–20:32)
• Personal and Family Parallels (Charade) (20:32–25:16)
• Dual Messes: Career and Marriage (25:16–26:48)
• Transformation & The Role of Help (26:48–28:20; 32:54–34:32)
• Embracing the Mess as Life, Not a Phase (37:00–38:13)
• Letting Go of Former Titles & Identity (38:13–39:17)
• Rapid Fire: Practical Career & Life Advice (40:11–41:36)
• Final Thoughts: Reinvention and Freedom (41:36–41:58)

Takeaways for Listeners

• Listen to your intuition and don't silence yourself for too long.
• Speaking up can be risky but staying silent is often costlier.
• You are not your job title. Life after a 'dream job' can be richer and truer to yourself.
• Save money and nurture your network—they’re keys to personal freedom.
• Seek support and help—therapy, trusted friends, community—especially in messy times.
• Messiness isn’t a transitional phase; it’s part of life. Embracing it openly is powerful.

Episode Tone

Raw, warm, and courageously honest. Both women are unguarded, blending professional wisdom with deeply personal revelations, offering listeners comfort, practical strategies, and a sense of camaraderie in the “messy parts” of their own journeys.