2 Liberals vs. 1 Conservative: BAR FIGHT | Michael Knowles, Brian Recker, & Ryan Basham

Summary

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The Michael Knowles Show

"2 Liberals vs. 1 Conservative: BAR FIGHT" | Michael Knowles, Brian Recker, & Ryan Basham

Date: November 18, 2025
Venue: John Rich's Redneck Riviera (Live Audience Event)

Episode Overview

This lively episode stages a classic ideological "bar fight": Michael Knowles (conservative Daily Wire host) debates two liberals, Brian Recker and Ryan Basham, on contentious sociopolitical issues. The audience chooses debate topics from the panelists' suggestions, and live questions from the floor keep the energy rowdy and raw. Key themes include political violence, marriage and sexual obligation, cultural divides over healthcare, and the ever-controversial Epstein files.

The tone is bold, combative, and at times deeply personal, fueled by both humor and heartfelt testimony.

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Key Segments & Topics

1. Political Violence: A Partisan Phenomenon?

Timestamps: [03:44]–[21:48]

Main Points

• Michael Knowles launches with the claim that political violence is "a distinctly left wing phenomenon." He references studies and personal experience with Antifa, highlighting statistical and anecdotal claims about the ideological origins of violence.
• Brian Recker and Ryan Basham challenge this, arguing that historically, right-wing violence has been the greater issue and that the current spike in left-wing violence is reactive.
• The group debates definitions, data exclusions (notably BLM riots), and the role of law enforcement/militarization in triggering violence.
• Audience questions challenge the group: Why is the left/right dichotomy so emphasized when some violent actors are merely "psychopaths" not motivated by ideology?

Notable Quotes

• Knowles [04:20]: "Political violence is a distinctly left-wing phenomenon. You don’t have to take my word for it…The Atlantic admitted this, and this is based on data that systematically exclude left wing violence."
• Brian [05:23]: "What you’re actually lying about from that study…the study actually says that this year is the first time in 30 years that left-wing violence outpaced right-wing violence."
• Audience [13:25]: "Isn’t it kind of stupid, just to be really…to act like sometimes people aren’t just psychopaths, when experts try to say ‘Was he a Republican or was he a Democrat?’"
• Ryan [14:19]: "There’s a real white male violence problem just about every time there’s a shooting... In mass shootings specifically, we have a radicalization problem with white men."

Discussion Highlights

• Disagreement over definitions of political violence and the politicization of crime statistics.
• References to BLM, January 6th, Waco, and historic attacks on the U.S. Capitol, with Knowles emphasizing leftist violence in the past.
• The panel struggles to settle on data as anecdotes versus aggregate statistics are debated.

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2. Marriage, Sex, and the "Marital Debt" Debate

Timestamps: [23:41]–[44:08]

Main Points

• Brian Recker confronts Knowles over his past statement that "wives owe their husbands sex"—what Knowles refers to as the "marital debt."
• Brian critiques purity culture’s framing, arguing it harms relationships by promoting obligation and suppressing desire and consent.
• Knowles clarifies: he believes marriage intrinsically involves sexual union and references both religious and secular studies in support.
• The topic becomes deeply personal when a female audience member (identifying as a childhood sexual abuse survivor) questions whether, under Knowles’s view, a spouse would owe sex even during trauma recovery.

Notable Quotes

• Brian [25:16]: "When you create a system where sex is a duty and an obligation…you’re not creating a culture of consent. You’re creating a culture of rape."
• Knowles [26:50]: "Within marriage, an essential part of it is occasionally bumping uglies. Is that fair?"
• Audience [34:25]: "Anybody I intend to marry—I should hope if there’s a night I don’t want to have sex with my husband, I should hope they would love me enough to give me that safety and my body, especially my husband."
• Knowles [35:02]: "No, no, not at any given time…that’s not any part of the claim... The only question debated is whether marriage necessarily entails sex in itself…not sex every day…"

Discussion Highlights

• Nuanced distinction between the expectation of sex in marriage versus ongoing, enthusiastic consent.
• Panel and audience converge on the need for empathy and respect for trauma survivors.
• Brian highlights the relational harm of obligation language and its link to purity culture and male loneliness.
• Ryan notes the diversity of marital relationships and the importance of autonomy and commitment over sexual frequency.

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3. Healthcare, Welfare, and Red vs. Blue States

Timestamps: [45:42]–[69:21]

Main Points

• Brian laments the gutting of ACA subsidies and unaffordability of healthcare, urging the U.S. to guarantee health care for all.
• Ryan asserts "red states need to stop mooching off blue states" with federal funding, citing per-capita disparities.
• Knowles counters with examples that challenge broad red/blue state generalizations, urging more nuanced reading of federal benefits/disbursements.
• Spirited debate over U.S. healthcare outcomes versus countries with universal health care (Canada, Germany, UK)—with arguments over cost, outcomes, wait times, and fairness.
• Audience questions include corporate taxes, wealth inequality, and the practical failures of both conservative and liberal health reforms.

Notable Quotes

• Brian [46:14]: "It’s time that the richest country in the history of the world guarantee health care for its citizens."
• Knowles [47:37]: "Blue states are much more densely populated...when you hone in per capita, that’s where the numbers get a little squirrely."
• Brian [51:05]: "We have abundance. But we have a distribution problem…even though we are the most wealthy country in the history of the world, we have more hungry children than most other developed countries."
• Ryan [67:15]: "The main difference between our healthcare and other countries is that here, there's a middleman called health insurance companies that rake in $71 billion in profit…and they are a middleman that extracts, making it more complicated…That’s our broken system."

Discussion Highlights

• Comparison of U.S. health metrics and European/Canadian systems; disputes over wait times, coverage, life expectancy, and medical debt.
• Arguments over the role and outcomes of government versus private or hybrid medicine.
• Critique of tax system complexity and corporate tax rates.

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4. The Epstein Files: Transparency and Political Fallout

Timestamps: [71:27]–[75:38]

Main Points

• Audience member, a survivor of trafficking, presses for more focus on the Epstein files, expressing frustration over perceived deflection or politicization.
• Brian pointedly asks Knowles whether Trump should release all Epstein files and if accused politicians should be prosecuted regardless of party.
• Knowles supports transparency "so long as it doesn’t incriminate innocent people," referencing claims that some accusations were retracted.
• Panel discusses the challenges of publicizing unsubstantiated or retracted allegations, as well as the political and media reactions to recent files.

Notable Quotes

• Brian [72:25]: "Michael, do you think Trump should release the Epstein files? And do you think that everybody exposed as a pedophile in those files should be imprisoned, potentially impeached?"
• Knowles [72:34]: "Yes. I’m all for maximal transparency that doesn’t, like…compromise national security."
• Ryan [74:06]: "If you’re the president, if you've made a thing about it, and then you don’t release the files, it looks bad politically—even if you’re not personally guilty."

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Audience Interaction & Notable Moments

Vulnerable Share on Sexual Trauma

• [34:25–37:57] A female audience member’s candid testimony on surviving childhood sexual abuse and subsequent anxiety around marital obligation is a stirring, emotional centerpiece. Knowles listens and affirms, and the panel shows deference and support.
  • Knowles [35:02]: "No, no [one does not owe sex at any given time]. Not at any point. That’s not any part of the claim…Certainly not sex when a woman has just given birth or anything like that."

Barroom Voting & Running Jokes

• Audience votes after each round for "who won," with humorous protestations and good-natured ribbing, including meta-commentary on rounds being incoherent or topics drifting into unrelated tangents.

Epstein/Joke Recurrence

• Repeated references to “the Epstein files” both as a serious corruption issue and as running joke fodder, including humorous asides about Trump and Bill Clinton.

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Memorable Exchanges

• On Consent and Marital Sex:

  • Brian [25:16]: "You’re not creating a culture of consent. You’re creating a culture of rape."
  • Knowles [26:50]: "Within marriage, an essential part of it is occasionally bumping uglies. Is that fair?"

• On Political Violence:

  • Knowles [04:20]: “Political violence is a distinctly left-wing phenomenon…Even the liberals admit terrorism today in America is a left-wing problem.”
  • Brian [05:23]: “What you’re actually lying about from that study…this year is the first time in 30 years that left-wing violence has outpaced right-wing violence.”

• On Healthcare:

  • Brian [64:51]: “You think it’s better that one in three Americans have medical debt? That 30 million Americans are uninsured? You think that’s better?”
  • Knowles [65:08]: “Medical debt is very bad and our current Obamacare system is very bad. But I do think it’s better than dying while waiting on waiting lists, like in the social[ist] system.”

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Conclusion: Who "Won"?

A tally is made after each segment; actual "winners" are ambiguous (often called for technicalities or audience mood), reinforcing the show's tongue-in-cheek theme. The real outcome is robust, often confrontational dialogue, a few moments of authentic vulnerability, and a testy but entertaining display of ideological trench warfare—fueled by audience enthusiasm and bar banter.

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For Listeners Who Missed the Live Debate:

• Expect rapid-fire, unfiltered debate (with interruptions and shifting topics).
• Major ideological divides highlighted but also humanized through personal stories and audience engagement.
• Running jokes and pop culture asides (especially about the Epstein files).
• No neat conclusions—true to the bar fight metaphor, every round leaves someone a little bruised but the crowd lively.

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Transcript

[Michael Knowles]

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[Brian]

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[Female Survivor/Questioner]

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[Brian]

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[Michael Knowles]

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[Brian]

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[Female Survivor/Questioner]

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[Michael Knowles]

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[Brian]

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[Michael Knowles]

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[Brian]

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[Michael Knowles]

The Beast in Me is a riveting.

[Brian]

Psychological cat and mouse story about guilt, justice and doubt.

[Michael Knowles]

You will not want to miss this.

[Brian]

The Beast in Me is now playing only on Netflix. The holidays are all about family. But at the Chrysler Wrap of the year sales event, it's all about you.

[Michael Knowles]

Enjoy every mile in the most awarded.

[Brian]

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[Michael Knowles]

Its class, available Stow n Go seating.

[Brian]

And the available Stow and Vac built in vacuum. Make the most of the holidays with.

[Michael Knowles]

A great deal at the Chrysler Pacifica Wrap up the Year sales event based.

[Brian]

On Ward's small van segment.

[Michael Knowles]

Based upon the latest available competitor information, Chrysler is a registered trademark of FCA US llc.

[Brian]

Majority do. But why would you determine for another couple?

[Michael Knowles]

I'm not controlling anyone. I'm just describing marriage. I just think it's kind of stupid.

[Ryan Davies]

Whatever you do in your marriage is your business.

[Michael Knowles]

Okay? And we have no from the libs. And we have yes from a married man who has a good time. Welcome, everybody. Thank you for being here. Welcome to Bar Fight Is Splitting a Family Apart. Political violence. Can I speak to that? No. You might know him from TikTok. Ryan Wrecker.

[Brian]

No wonder there are resistance. Absolutely.

[Michael Knowles]

Okay, now hold on. I have.

[Ryan Davies]

I know you've decided that all comments that paint white people in a bad light is bad.

[Michael Knowles]

An advisor to Joe Biden's totally legitimate 2020 campaign. Ryan Basham, Nashville's premier beverage fueled brawl. Live at John Rich's Redneck Riviera, the show where I, Michael Knowles, go head to head with two esteemed interlocutors on topics chosen by you, our most esteemed barflies. I've never debated an advisor to an auto pen before. This should be fun. Here. Here is how it works. We have each brought three topics to the table. The audience chooses the topics. We will duke it out and Then our eminently sober patrons can come up to the microphones to pick a fight with any of us. If you want to fight me, you go to the blue microphone. If you want to fight either of my wonderful guests, you go to the red microphone. Gentlemen, are you ready? Yeah.

[Ryan Davies]

Let's do it.

[Michael Knowles]

All right, let's get started.

[Brian]

Woo.

[Ryan Davies]

Yeah. Ding, ding.

[Michael Knowles]

All right, what's everybody's first topic?

[Brian]

All right, topic number one for me. Christian nationalists accuse Zoran Mandani of wanting to institute Islamic Sharia law because they are projecting their own desires for dominance onto him.

[Michael Knowles]

Oh, dead silence. Next one.

[Ryan Davies]

That's a heady one.

[Brian]

I didn't actually want that one, if I'm honest. That was a producer pick.

[Ryan Davies]

Wow.

[Michael Knowles]

T spilling me under the bus, man.

[Ryan Davies]

My first claim is the people who are most confident about gender affirming care are the mainstream medical community.

[Brian]

Absolutely. That's very true.

[Ryan Davies]

It's a factual truth.

[Michael Knowles]

We'll see about that.

[Ryan Davies]

It's not for some people, but it is true.

[Michael Knowles]

Mine is that political violence is a distinctly left wing problem.

[Brian]

Oh, my God.

[Ryan Davies]

I love being on earth too. It's pretty good.

[Brian]

Start with something that says, do we now?

[Michael Knowles]

I know we have a decibel counter here to figure out which topic you all picked. I don't know. It was a little unclear to me. Ben, do we know which topic won? It was hard to pick because I thought it broke because it read nothing on the first two, so we're doing the last one. I'm actually a little upset about that. I wanted to do the transgender one. That's okay. We'll do mine. That's fine.

[Ryan Davies]

I hate that things are turning out well for you.

[Michael Knowles]

Brutal. Maybe at the end. Maybe at the end. We'll get it in.

[Ryan Davies]

Okay.

[Michael Knowles]

Political violence is a distinctly left wing phenomenon. You don't have to take my word for it. The center for Strategic and International Studies just came out and admitted this, that it's a left wing phenomenon. No less a liberal outlet than the Atlantic admitted it. And this is based on data that systematically exclude left wing violence. So that's even not counting the BLM riots. It's not counting clear left wing ideological violence like the Covenant School shooting that happened here in Nashville. Transgender shooter targeted Christian children. It's not counting the Annunciation shooting. It's not even counting an experience that I had. I was at the University of Pittsburgh two years ago. I just testified before the Senate on this. I go down to Pittsburgh, two antifa operatives who are members of a formal antifa cell, the Torch Antifa network, they show up, they throw an explosive at the building when I walk on stage, and they seriously injure a cop. One of them is in federal prison for this. Not counted on any register as left wing violence. So even excluding all the big left wing violence, nevertheless, even the liberals admit terrorism today in America is a left wing problem.

[Brian]

But what you're actually lying about from that study, the study actually says that this year is the first time in 30 years that left wing violence has outpaced right wing violence. Because historically, it has always been white nationalist, right wing militant violence. That has by far been the greater historic problem. Only right now, in a moment where authoritarian fascism is creating police states throughout the country and Trump's secret police is going around brutalizing and kidnapping people, are we seeing people respond with violence. Which is understandable because Trump is creating a violent society. When you create a violent society, no wonder there are resistance. Absolutely.

[Michael Knowles]

Okay, now hold on. I have to ask.

[Brian]

Oh, my God.

[Michael Knowles]

Hold on, hold on.

[Brian]

What counts as political violence? I'm sorry? Is splitting a family apart political violence or is it only political violence when it's not masked thugs doing it?

[Michael Knowles]

No, it's not. I don't know.

[Brian]

It seems like political violence when a mass thug tears a family apart.

[Michael Knowles]

We can establish our terms. So political violence as it's counted by even the left wing groups is when the violence is conducted in furtherance of an ideological motive identifiable on the left and right.

[Brian]

Like tearing people apart and sending them to deportation centers surrounded by alligators. Like that kind of ideological motive?

[Michael Knowles]

No, enforcing immigration law is not ideological violence.

[Brian]

But sending people to countries they're not even born in, is that ideological?

[Michael Knowles]

Well, they weren't born in this country, and they don't belong here either, so they're gonna get out.

[Ryan Davies]

Oh, my God.

[Brian]

So you guys are happy that you just clapped for people to be sent back to countries that they weren't even born in? Y' all are telling, as long as.

[Michael Knowles]

They'Re not here, I am.

[Brian]

Hey, I'm sorry. Do you know those are real people you're talking about?

[Michael Knowles]

So hold on. You made a claim, though. You made a claim, which is you said, I lied, but I don't. What is the lie I told? I said that the study came out and it said that right now in America, left terrorism is on the left.

[Brian]

But you have the first time in history that it's been hired this year, specifically leaving out the entire history of our country.

[Michael Knowles]

So I left that out. That wouldn't make it a lie. But then I think the thing you have to answer to my point is that the CSIS study, CSIS is a left wing organization. Even they're admitting the problems on the left. Now the federal data, all of the other studies that we have exclude most of the left wing violence, including blm, which left dozens of people dead, a billion dollars in property damage, including two tender shoot and including the antifa attack on me.

[Brian]

Dented cop cars are the violence here. You're more worried about dented cop cars than families being torn down.

[Michael Knowles]

I'm just saying that it's violence and you're changing the subject to immigration because you know that left wing violence is the chief problem.

[Brian]

What I would say is that when you are militarizing cities that the governors are saying we actually don't need you here. You are actually instigating violence and Trump wants that violence. You know why? So that you don't pay attention to the Epstein files.

[Michael Knowles]

So as I understand it, my friend, an interlocutor here has no answer on the left wing terrorism problem. So he wants to talk about immigration, he wants to talk about Jeffrey Epstein, he wants to talk about any other topic.

[Brian]

Okay, I repudiate political violence. I don't believe that's the way.

[Michael Knowles]

Well, that's good because many left wingers do not.

[Ryan Davies]

I do many is not a data driven.

[Michael Knowles]

Well, actually. So there was a study came out YouGov after Charlie was assassinated that showed that very liberal people are eight times as likely to justify political violence as very conservative people. And. And 26% of young liberals are likely to justify political violence. Many multiples that of young conservatives.

[Ryan Davies]

I think you have to take that in the context of what else is happening though. A couple years ago those numbers were flipped. I think we're in a situation right now where the outsiders are the liberals and raging against the machine. Yeah.

[Michael Knowles]

I mean they were not flippable, but.

[Ryan Davies]

Vast majority of credible studies on political violence from the last 30 years have found that it's like an 85 to whatever split.

[Michael Knowles]

But can you address the point that I raised answering that?

[Ryan Davies]

Yeah, which one?

[Michael Knowles]

The fact that the BLM violence was not counted as ideological in virtually any of the registers. The fact that an antifa attack on me that resulted in federal prosecution and a guy in federal prison was counted as left wing political violence. The fact that the transgender shootings are not counted as political violence. Can you address that? Because if you can, then what you're saying is the numbers were cooked for years.

[Ryan Davies]

Well, no, two things. First of all, I haven't read those studies to know the detailed definition. I know you love to do that, which is cool. But also, we already have a data collection problem when it comes to crime anyway. All violence is bad. But we, and by the way, some of this is enforced by federal law, have a horrible time trying to track violence in this country. So often our data is not that.

[Brian]

And you know, it's going on, though. But do you know that what's making it harder to track is that the department, Trump's Department of Justice actually removed a study following Charlie Kirk's very, very reprehensible assassination. After that happened, they removed a study that says that right wing violence has led to 520 deaths since 1990. Left wing violence, only 72 deaths. And they remove that and hit it. It's archived. I can send it to you. Just DM me.

[Michael Knowles]

They didn't remove the study in the sense that the study still exists. They're just pointing out, as governments are wont to do, that new data and better data should be preferred to old data that are inaccurate and that exclude left wing violence.

[Ryan Davies]

I think violence is just bad, and I think we can all just agree on that.

[Brian]

But I do think we should look at why it's happening and who's instigating it.

[Michael Knowles]

Hold on, what do you mean, why it's happening? Is this a justification guy, the government with the t. What do you mean, why it's happening? What does that matter if the violence is coming from the left? My question is not. Well, let's figure out why they're committing all that violence. No, I want to arrest them and stop the violence.

[Brian]

Picking fights. Governors are saying, no, thank you, we don't need your military here.

[Michael Knowles]

So you're saying that because he's taking violence.

[Brian]

Yes, he wants a violent society to justify all the other things.

[Michael Knowles]

So you're saying the right wingers are asking for it. You're saying Trump is enforcing immigration law and therefore the left is becoming violent.

[Brian]

I do not justify. No, absolutely. I didn't say that.

[Michael Knowles]

I'm sorry, that's what it sounded like you were saying.

[Brian]

No, I'm saying that when the right uses fascist authoritarian tactics, they know what that's going to create.

[Michael Knowles]

What's that gonna create?

[Brian]

People will. Yeah, they're literally putting pressure on.

[Michael Knowles]

The left will commit violence.

[Ryan Davies]

I mean, it's a pretty.

[Michael Knowles]

That is the point that. I mean, you're granting the premise. Yeah, yeah.

[Brian]

If my home was invaded, something bad would happen. That's a bad thing. Yes.

[Michael Knowles]

So the left is committing violence at higher rates than the right and they're justifying it at much higher rates than the right. Because of Trump. You know, this is basically like Trump.

[Brian]

Should just militarize cities when the governors are saying we're actually totally safe here and no need for this military here.

[Michael Knowles]

Well, we've had federal law for many, well over a cent that says that when cities fail to enforce order that we have an Insurrection Act. No, there is. It's federal law. It's called the Insurrection Act.

[Ryan Davies]

Every single one of these are instances of situations that the local police were already trained and prepared to handle.

[Michael Knowles]

Were they? I don't know. Crime has exploded in these cases.

[Ryan Davies]

Absolutely. Listen, every single sheriff or police captain that has been affected by this has tried to find a polite way to say, no, we had it, but we're going to work with you because you're here.

[Michael Knowles]

Two murders a day in Chicago. You think they have it? You think it's just fine? I don't think they have it.

[Ryan Davies]

No, no, no. People like to do that. But like every place in America, people.

[Michael Knowles]

In Chicago like to murder. Yes, that's true.

[Ryan Davies]

Listen, every place in America is violent and we like to blame big cities as violent places, but they're just more people. It's a per capita problem. If you're in a rural place, people still get murdered just less often because there are fewer people.

[Michael Knowles]

Now, if anyone has any questions, any. Oh, I see the line is already very long. Okay. Hey, what's up? I was just at Raising Cane's with some friends and they're like, oh, we.

[Ryan Davies]

Need some people that probably, like, aren't Republicans in here?

[Michael Knowles]

So we're in here now if you're a Republican. No, hey, I'm like, kind of way more small government leaning. So like all this, like, oh, like.

[Ryan Davies]

What the states want and what the mayor wants.

[Michael Knowles]

I'm just going to do what I want because I'm the White House is like, kind of psycho to me. Right? Like, that's not, that's probably not going to foster, like, a healthy society when you have, like, the federal government really overstepping coming from this side of things. I'm just kind of curious. Why are you so set on making like, left wing violence and right wing violence? Because, like, obviously sometimes people are psychopaths, right? Like, we're on the same page there. Like, there's people that like, oh, they grew up in a MAGA household and then they like, got addicted to porn on like 4chan and they be, you know, they go psycho and they kill people. And it's so weird to watch, like, experts be like, was he Republican or was he a Democrat? No, he's a psychopath. Like. Like, I. So I have my master's degree in psychology. Right.

[Brian]

That's why I don't care.

[Michael Knowles]

And, like, I just think it's kind of stupid just to be really. Okay, okay.

[Ryan Davies]

You what? Yeah, so it's just.

[Michael Knowles]

It's just very reductive the way that we do this.

[Brian]

Yeah, I think that's a great point. I think one thing that I will say is that if we looked at some of the trends that are worth looking at, there is a real white male violence problem just about every time there's a shooting. I know you.

[Ryan Davies]

I know. Look, I know you like, I know you. I know you've decided that all comments that paint white men in a bad light is bad.

[Michael Knowles]

Do we have to break out the crime statistics? Because I don't know if we want to break out.

[Brian]

Every time there's a shooter, it's like, oh, surprise, surprise, it's another white guy who got radicalized online. We have a radicalization problem.

[Michael Knowles]

You think white guys are more likely to commit violent crime than other races?

[Brian]

No, I didn't say that. In mass shooting, specifically.

[Michael Knowles]

Oh, in mass shooting.

[Brian]

Radicalization problem with white men.

[Ryan Davies]

Yeah.

[Michael Knowles]

Yeah. Okay. Well, I guess one thought that I would have in response to your question is the reason why it matters if they're on the left and the right. Some people are just psychotic, and you can't identify an ideological motive. Sure, that's true. But sometimes you can. And it seems to me that if you want to fix a problem, you have to first identify what the problem is. And so if you refuse, if you just bury your head in the sand, or if you say it's the other side and then you're not going to solve the problem. Next question. So I want to speak to your analogy. You said if, in response to the ICE agents coming into cities where the governors are saying they don't want them, you said if someone came into your house uninvited, there would be consequences. So this country is our house. It's our home. So how would you.

[Brian]

How would you feel about the consequences for the people who are here illegally?

[Michael Knowles]

Great point. You know, Great point.

[Ryan Davies]

I was just reading about. Reading up on statistics on that today, and some of you are going to hate this, but it's factual. Immigrants, including undocumented immigrants, are less likely to commit crime than people who are born in this country. And statistically, the more immigrants there are in our community, the less crime there is in that community.

[Michael Knowles]

Per capita Statistically, 100% of immigrants have committed crime.

[Ryan Davies]

It's factually true.

[Michael Knowles]

It's a little complicated because everybody.

[Ryan Davies]

He just said they already committed a crime. I don't clear being in the country, most people who are here without papers got here on like a tourist visa and overstayed. Most people who are here illegally don't.

[Michael Knowles]

No, not over the last four years.

[Ryan Davies]

Hold on, I gotta. I have a whole sentence that you're interrupting. But to be clear that legally being if all you've done is been in this country without papers, that's legally more like a misdemeanor, closer to a parking ticket than it is to a felony.

[Michael Knowles]

That's just a parking ticket. Hold on. So hold on, you make a very good point, which is that a first time entry, barring other conditions can be a misdemeanor. For sure. Re entry would be a felony. There are other associated crimes. With this, however, I would ask one question. Do illegal aliens pay federal taxes?

[Ryan Davies]

Yeah, actually they do. They do tax and income tax, often $90 billion. Actually. The IRS has a whole system for people who are undocumented to file taxes.

[Michael Knowles]

Okay, so I'm glad.

[Brian]

And by the way, economists overwhelmingly believe that immigration, including illegal immigration, is a net positive tax.

[Michael Knowles]

Forget about that. I just have one. I have one question for. Because if you make the point as you have that actually illegal aliens, even though they don't have Social Security numbers, they do pay federal taxes because to get employment, sometimes they'll use other Social Security numbers. So they don't get the benefits, but they do pay into the system.

[Ryan Davies]

That's a fact.

[Michael Knowles]

Yeah. Okay. That's a federal crime. 42 U.S. code, section 408. It's a federal crime to steal the Social Security number. So there you go. You got it.

[Ryan Davies]

I just want to be clear.

[Brian]

This is a process for people to.

[Michael Knowles]

Pay taxes without stealing the Social Security number, which he just admitted is a crime.

[Ryan Davies]

Violent crime versus paperwork.

[Michael Knowles]

Okay, so now it's. We've upped it. It's not that they don't commit crimes, it's that they don't commit violent crimes.

[Brian]

Who has not had a speeding ticket ever in this room?

[Michael Knowles]

I don't know if it's going to.

[Brian]

Like a speedy tank.

[Michael Knowles]

A lot of good drivers out there.

[Brian]

Should we throw you into a prison surrounded by alligators because of your speeding ticket?

[Ryan Davies]

Also, also, Fun fact, fun fact, 70, more than 70% of people in ICE custody today don't even have an accusation of a crime, let alone a record.

[Michael Knowles]

I think the accusation is that came into the country illegally. Okay. Do we have any more questions? Okay, so when we talk about these.

[Ryan Davies]

Left wing violence cases and things like.

[Michael Knowles]

That, we seem to like, kind of talk around cases and things like that. When we're talking, all of us have been paying attention. We see Charlie, we see the Brett Kavanaugh, we see, you know, BLM violence.

[Ryan Davies]

All this stuff we all have lived.

[Michael Knowles]

Through these examples that we've seen face to face.

[Ryan Davies]

But other than January 6th and maybe Charlottesville, how long has that been?

[Michael Knowles]

That's been 10 years ago.

[Ryan Davies]

You know, we kind of just don't.

[Michael Knowles]

Pay attention to the fact that we have all these examples of left wing.

[Ryan Davies]

That we talk about very specifically. But when we talk about right wing violence, we don't have a lot of examples.

[Michael Knowles]

We kind of. No, there are.

[Ryan Davies]

No. There's a difference between what you saw on TV because it was big, and the statistics. It's important to look at definitions and what you're studying when you're, when you define what violence is. It's not like anecdotes are the same as data. Those are huge anecdotes. And it's awful and bad, but also anecdotes and your awareness of them do not equal the objective facts of the data as a whole.

[Michael Knowles]

And then every time we look into a right wing one, it's a hoax.

[Ryan Davies]

Yeah, hold on.

[Michael Knowles]

So he asked, he said, look, you can point to all these specific examples of left wing violence. And then you guys said, here, you said, no, that's not true. You can point to all these ones on the right. But then you didn't provide any specific examples.

[Ryan Davies]

Because I'm not relying on anecdotes.

[Michael Knowles]

The plural of anecdote is data, by the way, because crime in the aggregate is made up of individual instances.

[Ryan Davies]

Thank you for validating my education. Because when you pick a specific one.

[Michael Knowles]

It'S always a hook. When the law is crazy. You can't name them though.

[Ryan Davies]

Name what?

[Michael Knowles]

He asked specific instances.

[Brian]

January 6th violence.

[Michael Knowles]

He mentioned January 6th. The only person who died in that political violence, by the way, was a Trump supporter. A military veteran, was killed by a trigger happy cop. We'll put that aside for a second.

[Brian]

Because they stormed the Capitol.

[Michael Knowles]

Yeah. By the way. Not even the worst, not even the worst attack on the Capitol, by the way, because you had, in 1915, a Harvard professor, left wing bombed the Capitol over protesting capitalism. You had Puerto Rican nationalists in the 1950s shoot it up, injured five congressmen. You had the left wing Weather Underground bomb it. You had the left wing Maoist liberation Front. Bomb it. So five events. Four involve explosives, four involve leftists, one involves a silly horn hat guy on the right, which are the serious attacks on the Capitol.

[Ryan Davies]

That was a lot of words.

[Michael Knowles]

Yeah.

[Brian]

I don't have a list.

[Michael Knowles]

We gotta keep up. I know.

[Ryan Davies]

We gotta keep up with a list of. Look, look, look again. Okay. Again. You're gonna have. You're gonna have anecdotes that support what you believe to be.

[Michael Knowles]

Are we gonna have. You guys don't have anecdotes. So is the product.

[Brian]

This wasn't our topic. I don't care.

[Ryan Davies]

We weren't.

[Michael Knowles]

Yeah, I mean, but that was your point. That is the topic.

[Ryan Davies]

What happened in Waco. I mean, there are plenty of.

[Brian]

My point.

[Michael Knowles]

Well, when the cops went in and murdered that cult, you.

[Brian]

The data is very clear that historically, since 1990. Deaths. Let's just talk about deaths. 520 deaths from right wing militant violence. 72 deaths from left wing.

[Michael Knowles]

It's been a lot of time, but no specific instances. I think it proves the questioner's point. Okay, next question.

[Ryan Davies]

That's true.

[Brian]

I'm talking about dead bodies. I don't know. What, like the BLM violence you're talking about. Are you just talking about some property damage?

[Michael Knowles]

No, I'm talking about dozens of people murdered.

[Brian]

I'm talking about 520 people.

[Michael Knowles]

But I'm giving you a specific instance, which is the BLM riots. You can't point to any.

[Brian]

I don't want historical examples. I have 520 people.

[Michael Knowles]

That's it.

[Ryan Davies]

That's it.

[Michael Knowles]

That's IT. Okay, so two questions. Which one of us at this table won the round? And then there's gonna be a follow up question after that. So who here thinks that our friend Brian won the round? Hey, clap one, please. You got some out there. Okay. Who here thinks that our friend Ryan won the round?

[Ryan Davies]

Oh, all two of you, thank you. Guys, stop it.

[Brian]

You love this, don't you?

[Michael Knowles]

Who here thinks I won the round? Hey, come on. Stop it. Come on. That was rough. Okay. All right. Now this is actually the most heated debate of the entire show. Who do you think won the question round? Who do you think deserves a seat at that beautiful redneck Riviera Whiskey VIP table?

[Brian]

My long ago.

[Michael Knowles]

What do we think? Do we think of those guys back there? Is it our friend from Raising Canes that our hippie friend? Is it? Yeah, I agree. There's no more voting. Mr. Hippie Friend, you are at the VIP table. Thank you.

[Ryan Davies]

Oh, God, this is a long hour.

[Michael Knowles]

Now we've got. I can't wait until he's been drinking a little bit and we get more questions. Gentlemen, it is time for me to do an ad read for Good Ranchers, folks. Well, our VIP gets his seat. And before an actual brawl breaks out, let's talk about something that everyone can agree on. And that is steak. Not just any steak. We're talking about good ranchers steak. 100% American raised, delivered right to your door. Now, I don't care what side of the aisle you're on, nobody is turning down a sizzling, perfectly grilled steak. That is why, when I fire up the grill, I know I'm serving 100% American raised meat. Top quality, delivered right to my door. My children love it. Now, let me bring the audience into this. Give me a shout if you have ever tried grocery store meat and instantly regretted it. That's great. That's great. Okay, that's bipartisan disappointment. Good Ranch fixes that. They're flexible with delivery, just like our unpredictable debates. Order, pause, delay, cancel. Anytime. Even if you lose tonight, you win at dinner. Now, listen up. If you go to goodranchers.com, use code knowles. You will get 40 bucks off your first box, 30 bucks off your second, 30 bucks off your third. And, audience, this is where you can cheer Free meat for life when you subscribe.

[Female Survivor/Questioner]

Whoa.

[Michael Knowles]

So, whether you're debating voter ID or foreign policy, make sure the stake on your table is as good as your arguments. Head on over to goodranchers.com use code knowles. It's time for round two.

[Female Survivor/Questioner]

Woo.

[Michael Knowles]

Thank you. Thank you, Molly.

[Ryan Davies]

Yeah. Ding, ding.

[Michael Knowles]

Thank you, Molly. Okay, so let's go. Second topics. You begin.

[Brian]

I'm starting. Okay. Michael, you have said that wives owe their husbands sex.

[Michael Knowles]

I have.

[Ryan Davies]

You call it the marital debt I.

[Brian]

Would like to propose. No, they don't.

[Michael Knowles]

All right, all right. I'm glad my wife is not in the audience tonight to argue against me. That's good.

[Ryan Davies]

I would love to hear her internal monologue. We already kind of touched on this, but I'll read it anyway. I should focus on deporting violent criminals, not whoever they can get their hands on.

[Michael Knowles]

Okay, my topic is that Democrats are entirely responsible for that stupid government shutdown.

[Ryan Davies]

Really?

[Michael Knowles]

You agree with that? Do you want. Okay, I actually don't remember.

[Ryan Davies]

We're going to argue.

[Brian]

Argue about it.

[Michael Knowles]

What do we think? Is it. The people have the first one you want. They're saying they want the first.

[Brian]

Let's talk about sex.

[Michael Knowles]

The people have spoken.

[Brian]

We're gonna talk about this. Here's the thing. It's not that I don't want you to be. I don't want you to be r. Okay.

[Ryan Davies]

I feel like that's fair.

[Brian]

So I grew up in something called purity culture. Very strict, traditional gender roles. This is what men are like. This is what women are like. One of the tenets of purity culture is that men need sex, men want sex. Sex is more for men than for women. This creates a lot of problems. Here's the thing. Everybody's actually horny. Everybody wants to have sex.

[Ryan Davies]

Speak for yourself.

[Brian]

When you create a system where sex is a duty and its obligation, you're actually doing a lot of things. First of all, you're not creating a culture of consent. You're creating a culture of rape. And you're not creating a culture where men actually develop the skills which cultivate desire in their partners. When you have experienced sex where the other person deeply desires you and wants to be there with you, you would never talk about any kind of marital debt or obligation because that. That robs you of the experience of actually being in a mutually pleasurable sexual experience. And it also sets up men and women really, for failure with how to view healthy relationships.

[Ryan Davies]

I mean, I feel like if you're not getting the sex you want in your relationship, that's probably on you. Like, just generally speaking, if you are.

[Brian]

If you're not desired, cultivate emotional intimacy, get enthusiastic content, Find out what makes them happy. Absolutely. Any talk of obligation and debt actually is just incredibly unhealthy. It's toxic.

[Michael Knowles]

Okay, so all fine points. Now, I agree. Sex is a privilege. I've always said with me, it's especially a privilege. But.

[Ryan Davies]

And everyone says nothing when he does.

[Michael Knowles]

But what we're talking about here is not, you know, just sort of the ideal situation where everyone's always in the mood all of the time. And what we're talking about is situations where at the extreme case, we're getting to the nature of what marriage is. Do husbands and wives, broadly speaking, at the end of the day, have an obligation with some frequency at some point, maybe to at least consider having sex with each other?

[Brian]

I think you should consider. But here's the thing.

[Michael Knowles]

An obligation pressure.

[Brian]

This has been studied. The data shows pressure decreases desire, decreases satisfaction within marriage. When you have that obligation and pressure that will make your wife less likely to want to have sex with you and also less happy in the relationship.

[Michael Knowles]

Okay, so let's say you're married and you get married. You say, this is great. What a wonderful honeymoon, honey. And then your wife or your husband tells you that night, say, hey, by the way, I should have probably told you this beforehand. I never, ever want to have sex with you. Not even one time.

[Brian]

You should probably.

[Ryan Davies]

It's time for an annoyance.

[Brian]

That sounds like an unhealthy relationship.

[Michael Knowles]

Divorced. Get divorced. Yeah.

[Brian]

You're not.

[Michael Knowles]

Okay, so. So there you go.

[Brian]

You want to be in that marriage.

[Michael Knowles]

Well, hold on, hold on.

[Brian]

I don't know what you. I want to have sex with people who want to have sex with me.

[Michael Knowles]

But, Brian, then you.

[Brian]

Then you call me crazy. And I feel like. Call me crazy. I feel like if you get into.

[Ryan Davies]

A marriage with somebody and then they tell you that after you're married, that's. They came in.

[Michael Knowles]

But, Brian, you've just admitted the point by saying at that point you should get divorced. You're saying if you're within marriage, you have to have sex at some point.

[Brian]

You've admitted that's what both people. If that's what you want.

[Michael Knowles]

No, no.

[Brian]

You just said it's a sexual relationship, and you married someone who's ace or asexual, not interested in sex, then you probably don't belong to each other.

[Michael Knowles]

Did you say ace? What is ace?

[Ryan Davies]

Asexual.

[Brian]

Asexual.

[Michael Knowles]

Asexual.

[Brian]

Some people don't have sex.

[Ryan Davies]

Bad.

[Michael Knowles]

Don't sex bad for a marriage?

[Brian]

Yeah. Some marriages are happily sexless, not most. I would say that's not normative, but it certainly is. Hey, whatever floats your boat. I personally don't need to control how other people do their sex like they could have. I want everybody to have the sex that they want to be having.

[Michael Knowles]

All right, this is getting too bawdy. I have a more basic question. I have a more basic question. What is marriage for? What's, like, the point of it? What distinguishes marriage from other unions, like two buddies or whatever, boyfriend and a girlfriend?

[Ryan Davies]

I have thoughts, but you answer that.

[Michael Knowles]

Siblings. I don't know.

[Brian]

Intimacy, connection, companionship, partnership.

[Michael Knowles]

Some people. I'm intimate with my buddy. I'm intimate with my cousin, but I'm not. Not that way. Not that way. I'm saying it's different marriage.

[Brian]

Listen, we are affirming. Hey, this is beautiful. I think coming out is a really fun.

[Michael Knowles]

Yeah, no, for everybody. Different intimacy. Different.

[Brian]

Do you want to tell your story of when you came out? Ryan, we could all.

[Michael Knowles]

Yeah, I think I bought my mother, but it's different.

[Ryan Davies]

I am from this state, but it did not involve my cousin.

[Michael Knowles]

Can I propose something?

[Brian]

So I think one thing that's really important about the whole idea of debt is we are giving men and women a very bad idea of what sex even is and how it should be experienced. We're letting boys think that actually women probably don't want to be here. And it's actually normal to be in a sexual relationship where the other person is in a position of duty rather than cultivating that desire which we're seeing this. We are in a male loneliness epidemic for a reason. Men are not learning relational and emotional skills. They're not learning how to connect with people as people.

[Michael Knowles]

Okay, Yeah, I totally agree that people should get married and not be lonely. By the way, if you have questions or comments, go to the microphone. I guess I'd like to propose something. It's a little weird.

[Ryan Davies]

I'm not gonna marry you.

[Michael Knowles]

I know. Listen, I've only had half my drink. We'll see how the night goes.

[Brian]

We did learn in the Epstein files today that Trump sucked. Bill Clinton's D ck, I guess. Did you guys read that one? Anybody read that one? Did you guys see that?

[Michael Knowles]

I must have missed.

[Brian]

I did not make that up. That is in the Epstein files. Google it.

[Michael Knowles]

I think I missed that file. You missed that one.

[Female Survivor/Questioner]

Go.

[Michael Knowles]

In the morning, I have something to propose on the topic, which is. Cause I'm very old fashioned. So I'm of the opinion that marriage is for having children. I think that's what distinguishes it from other unions. Bunch of childless people out here clapping. Not everybody gets. You know, there's infertility and everything. But it is a union between a man and a woman ordered toward the procreation and education of children and also for the mutual support of the spouses. That's what distinguishes it from buddies or cousins or siblings or whatever. So then my point is, if you don't do the thing that distinguishes marriage from other relationships, you've totally undermined marriage. And you see this in religion. Obviously you were raised in a religious household. St. Paul writes in the First Corinthians. He says that husbands should not deprive their wives of sex and vice versa because they're not totally in control of their own bodies. We control each other's bodies. Let me just get this point out. And so there's a religious basis all through Christendom, all through religious traditions. But there's a secular basis too. There was a study in 2015, University of Toronto. It found that couples who don't have sex are less happy than couples who do. I don't know why there's a study for that, but there is. It's found that couples don't buy that news. Couples that don't have sex are much more likely to get divorced. Couples that don't have sex are much more likely to use pornography, which itself predicts divorce. So it seems to me, and I guess this is just my basic claim, that within marriage, an essential part of it is occasionally bumping uglies. Is that fair?

[Brian]

Sure. It's gonna be different for everybody, but.

[Michael Knowles]

I don't think it's different. I think marriage by its very nature involves sex.

[Brian]

Many people get married later in life and don't have children for all kinds of reasons. They have vasectomies they've already had not.

[Michael Knowles]

Saying they have to have children. It's just ordered toward having children.

[Brian]

Some people don't wanna have children, and they can still get married because they want companionship. Without children, you're allowed to do that too. You actually don't control people, Michael. You can actually let people live their lives.

[Michael Knowles]

I'm not controlling anyone. I'm just describing marriage.

[Brian]

I want people to have the sex that they want to have. And because I so badly want men to not be lonely and want them to have satisfying sex lives, they should know that gaining enthusiastic consent and creating emotional connection is the way. Not talking about obligation and marital debt. That will not work. Boys.

[Michael Knowles]

But once again, can I get some.

[Brian]

Ladies out here, please? Thank you.

[Michael Knowles]

Once again, though, these things are not pitted against each other. It's great. Couples, they're not.

[Brian]

Yes, Right now, when you husband and.

[Michael Knowles]

Wife might be sad, when you get.

[Brian]

An obligation, you actually shut down desire. The data tells that if you actually read sex researchers and.

[Michael Knowles]

No, I just cited a number of sex research studies, didn't I? And I just pointed out that couples.

[Brian]

That don't have sex. Marriages are healthier when they're having sex. Yes, but marriages that talk about debt and obligation have less sex is what I'm telling you.

[Michael Knowles]

But the question. The question that we're asking here. The question we're asking is, does marriage necessarily involve having sex? That's the question. Okay. And we have no from the libs. And we have yes from a married man who has a good time.

[Brian]

The majority do. But why would you determine that for another couple?

[Michael Knowles]

Do we have questions or comments? We have a lady.

[Female Survivor/Questioner]

Hi. I want to make sure I can look you in the eyes when I speak to you. Hello.

[Ryan Davies]

Hello.

[Female Survivor/Questioner]

A large part of what brought me to this bar is this specific statement that you've made. This isn't exactly fun to share to a bar full of people. Although I see that this bar has Women in it and men. And I understand that that means that a large number of us in this room have unfortunately experienced rape. I'm gonna be very honest and open and look in your eyes and tell you right now that I'm a victim of child rape. Started for me as a baby and lasted into my. Well into my adolescence and then through my adult life as I now am. A 31 year old woman tried to reclaim my body back. I'm going to be ultra honest. This is something that I'm already honest about in my own community. But I am a survivor of sex that happened to me in the fifth grade. I devoted a lot of my adolescence, especially the 14 year old as I started to learn about this, towards fighting against girls that were funneled and trapped into sex trafficking. So a lot of my life growing up is about really beautifully trying to reclaim my own body. And anybody I intend to love or marry, I should hope that if I need to lay in bed next to them beside that night and all I can do is hold their hand, if that I should hope that they would love me enough to give me that safety and my body, especially my husband.

[Michael Knowles]

Yes. Amen. Well, I'm terribly sorry to hear of your experience.

[Female Survivor/Questioner]

I mean, that's just go off and then. Thank you for saying that. And so, so I guess to ask an actual question, because I said that as a question, hearing my experience, because a lot of this is, you know, we're speaking theoretical here. I am truly a human that has endured that and fought against that. So looking in my eyes as a woman, when I hopefully get married someday when I don't want to, if there's a night I don't want to have sex with my husband that night. Do you think I owe that to him?

[Michael Knowles]

No, no, not at any given time. Whenever. That's, that's not any part of the claim or any part of the traditional Christian understanding of marriage.

[Female Survivor/Questioner]

So if there is a year, thank you. And so if there's perhaps like a certain time in my journey after I have opened myself up to a man to trust him to say, hey, thank you. I want, I do want to share my body with you. You're my love. Let's say at a point in my journey, I start struggling with my memories that I will tell you are graphic, are horrific, they're difficult. So if there's an entire, perhaps even five month period or even a God forbid, a year that I don't feel comfortable letting somebody into the body that somebody has taken from me so many times, do I owe that to him.

[Ryan Davies]

No.

[Michael Knowles]

So in the traditional sort of Christian understanding of this, there are all sorts of circumstances that would obviously, you know, mitigate what is traditionally called the marital debt, which would be like, you know, if your wife has just given birth or something, if, I don't know, all the way down to a headache. And so obviously a very grave condition, as you're describing, some kind of trauma, some kind of medical condition would, of course, you know, and one would hope, in a loving marriage would, you know, willfully impel the husband to recognize that that is, of course, the case. The only question that is being debated here is whether or not the institution of marriage necessarily entails sex in itself. Not sex every day, not sex every two hours. Not sex when people are upset or have difficult conditions. Certainly not sex when a woman has just given birth or anything like that. The only question, the very modest claim that I am shocked that my liberal interlocutors could not acknowledge here is that marriage, at some point, in its intrinsic nature, involves sexual. And I think you would agree with that.

[Female Survivor/Questioner]

I think that for the most part, that is a natural outcome of marriage. But I also believe that while there's a lot of byproducts of marriage, I do think that the main point of marriage is to join together and love each other and respect each other, and especially respect each other's dignity, autonomy and safety, certainly.

[Michael Knowles]

But wouldn't you say. It's a great point, but wouldn't you say beyond that? Because we were joking about having buddies and stuff, being intimate with buddies or whatever. And it's like we can have intimate, safe, loving relationships with lots of people, you know, with your family members, with your neighbors, with your teachers, with your co workers, whatever. So there has to be something that distinguishes marriage from all of those other kinds of loving, intimate, beautiful relationships. And it seems to me that what distinguishes it is not going on a honeymoon. It's not that you share a bed or don't share a bed like Lucy and Ricky. It's that at some point there's this act that you do with your spouse that you don't do with your cousin or your teacher, hopefully. So that's the only point of the claim. And again, once again, I want to speak for you. It does seem like you agree with.

[Female Survivor/Questioner]

That, that sex is a typical outcome or a hopeful outcome of marriage, a.

[Michael Knowles]

Distinctive part of it.

[Female Survivor/Questioner]

Distinctive, yeah, absolutely. Especially through a Christian view. Yes. You are, you know, suggested to wait till marriage, all those different things. However, I would like to point out two points, and then I won't take a. I won't hog this microphone. Thank you for listening. Thank you all of you guys for having the discourse. But the two points I guess I would answer you on are that if the most desired outcome of marriage is having a child, there are a lot of people that deal with fertility issues, both men and women. So that doesn't negate the validity of their marriage, certainly. And then 10 years ago the statistic was like one in three women have had that trauma. The statistic has, has grown much higher. But I'd also like to point out that men also have a significant amount of sexual trauma. So you have both men and women in marriage that have a significant. Could possibly have these extenuating circumstances. Therefore, I believe that it should have a fair. It's a bold claim to say that sex is a debt to marriage when there are so many people in this room that have probably. Actually there are probably people in this room that have shared some of my experiences.

[Ryan Davies]

I just feel like, you know, this conversation is basically the baseline is, do you have sex? To me, the baseline is, are you committed to being in it with each other? Lifelong partnership, no matter what. And everything y' all do together is none of my business.

[Michael Knowles]

You're in a lifelong partnership with your mom and dad.

[Ryan Davies]

Well, what I'm talking about one on one partnership called marriage, which is we are in this thing called.

[Michael Knowles]

I know you call it marriage. I'm asking what marriage is.

[Ryan Davies]

We share the things that people tend to pair together and merge when they're married.

[Michael Knowles]

But what is that? That's all very vague. What is the marriage?

[Brian]

To honor her story, you're like, oh, yeah, absolutely. That's built in. We do that. But then when you start with the language of debt and obligation, what you actually have to do though is get to know the person in front of you that you're in relationship with and understand what they need. And the debt and obligation language creates a really unhelpful framework which actually creates a framework where you're not entering into connection to actually find out what they need. Instead, you're thinking about what I deserve, that I deserve sex.

[Michael Knowles]

No, but you won't know what your spouse says.

[Brian]

My goal was that men need sex. When you were talking, the quote that I'm referring to, you said men need sex and women owe their husbands sex and vice versa. But if you start. But that is the purity culture framework. That men need sex and women often say sex objects.

[Michael Knowles]

But that sex object. Who ever said anything like that?

[Ryan Davies]

How long do you have all of history.

[Female Survivor/Questioner]

Yeah.

[Brian]

Literally even just today, like Megyn Kelly, for instance, speaking about the female victims and refusing actually reframing and saying, well, maybe Epstein. And if Trump is implicated, they're not pedophiles because these girls were 15. As sexualizing these girls and saying that's not pedophilia because they're actually teenagers.

[Michael Knowles]

I think we're kind of far afield off the topic, which is, does marriage involve sexuality? And the answer is obviously yes.

[Brian]

Girls and women and seeing them as objects is absolutely a part of this conversation. That men need sex and women are sex objects.

[Michael Knowles]

Okay.

[Brian]

And that is.

[Michael Knowles]

All right. I don't really know how Jeffrey Epstein fits into this, but I guess.

[Ryan Davies]

Do we have any more questions to talk about him?

[Michael Knowles]

If you're arguing the premise that marriage, that there's no obligation for sex within marriage, I'll give you a little bit of a setup here. Myself, personally, I live with my soon to be wife, and I also live with my best friend and his soon to be wife. Okay, so if there's no obligation to sex within the marriage, how would you distinct. How would you make the classification between the relationship I have with my fiance and the relationship that I have with my best friend, Especially considering we both live under the same roof.

[Ryan Davies]

Oh, that's easy.

[Brian]

Are you married?

[Michael Knowles]

But what is. He's asking, what does. What does marriage mean? And you're saying it's marriage. And he's saying, what does that mean to you?

[Brian]

So if you believe that sex an obligation, that means you can demand it from her.

[Michael Knowles]

It is a voluntary obligation that you both sign up for.

[Brian]

But if she doesn't want to do it, then you. Are you gonna make her do it? What's your plan here, bro?

[Michael Knowles]

No, absolutely not. It's the point earlier. What's the plan? It's not an anytime sort of thing, but there is an agreement that it will happen at some point in time.

[Brian]

Okay, so you just want her to live under that looming pressure that she's supposed to.

[Michael Knowles]

It's not a looming pressure. It's voluntary. If you didn't discuss this, if it's.

[Brian]

Voluntary obligation language, it's not helping you. It's not serving you.

[Michael Knowles]

Why did she get. Why did she get married in the first place?

[Brian]

You love each other, Michael, because you want to.

[Ryan Davies]

Well, if you like each other, marriage is making a public declaration that you're going to share life together. And whatever you do in your marriage is your business.

[Michael Knowles]

Listen, if you want to set up fellas, we're sharing life together right now. But we're not doing that.

[Ryan Davies]

I am not declaring to the world that I'm making a public partnership for life with you.

[Female Survivor/Questioner]

Okay.

[Ryan Davies]

And then what? I'm discussing what we do together. That's not where I'm going at all with you.

[Brian]

First Corinthians 7, the passage that you read earlier is absolutely about mutuality in relationships. It was actually quite revolutionary in a patriarchal society where women were often viewed as property to men. That passage talks about a mutual relationship where you both.

[Ryan Davies]

Yes.

[Michael Knowles]

Do you agree with the passage?

[Brian]

In what sense?

[Michael Knowles]

Do you agree with what St. Paul says in First Corinthians, chapter 7, 3 through 7?

[Brian]

You'd have to be more specific than that.

[Michael Knowles]

The passage you just cited.

[Brian]

I agree that.

[Michael Knowles]

Do you agree with the thing you just cited?

[Brian]

Relationships.

[Michael Knowles]

All right, all right. I guess because that passage says you owe me. No. Or nothing at all.

[Ryan Davies]

All right.

[Michael Knowles]

Okay. Now, two questions. Two questions. Who up here won the round? We turn first to Brian.

[Ryan Davies]

Hold up the blue paddle for Brian.

[Brian]

I'll take it.

[Michael Knowles]

We turn. Ryan was a little quieter in that round, but.

[Ryan Davies]

Ryan, I've never had sex with a woman, so I don't have much to add to.

[Brian]

But they owe you sex. You should be demanding it.

[Ryan Davies]

You know what? I'm good.

[Michael Knowles]

They don't owe Ryan sex. I am firmly behind that. And who thinks I won the round?

[Ryan Davies]

Yeah, it's kind of.

[Michael Knowles]

That's almost like 50. 50. I don't. What do we. Mr. Davies, do we have an answer on that? Who won it? I think you won that round. I won it. I think I did win it, too.

[Brian]

But it was a. I think they.

[Ryan Davies]

Pay him to say that he is on stage.

[Michael Knowles]

I think I pay him to say that, actually. Okay, now much more important question. Do we have a thought on who won? Which of the questioners? Well, I mean, the lady, I think the lady, I would say. Yeah, I would say the lady. Okay.

[Ryan Davies]

And that's not a token vote, like, for real.

[Michael Knowles]

That was good. Yeah, it was probably the. That's probably the only, like, heartfelt, substantive conversation of this entire night.

[Ryan Davies]

We've had this show.

[Michael Knowles]

It was great. So you're at the VIP table. Okay, round three, gentlemen. What's your topic?

[Brian]

All right, let's go.

[Michael Knowles]

Okay. We're gonna get to a lot more, but first, go to bravebooks.com knowles. Everyone says get out and vote. That is how you change the country. Sure, that's a big part of it. But another way that you shape America's future is not just at the ballot box. It is in your Home. The left has known for decades that if you can just capture the minds and hearts of the kids, you can change the course of the future. That is why it is so important for us to teach truth to them when they are young, so they don't fall for lies as they grow. That is why I am a huge fan of Brave books. My kids absolutely love them. I brought 10 brave books home the other day. They went crazy. They even had stickers in them. They are helping families teach timeless values through engaging stories that kids love. Each month you get a new book that reinforces a pro God, pro America value. Courage, honesty, love of country. All the things that my friends here totally disagree with. So every single conversation starter, every single game is going to bring the whole family together. And with their new streaming platform, Brave, you'll have a whole library of wholesome, trusted shows and movies vetted by real parents that is included free with your subscription. If you really want to make an impact, not just for one election cycle, but for generations, go to bravebooks.com knowles use code knowles k w l e s for 20% off your first order. Bravebooks.com knowles use code KNOWLES all right.

[Brian]

Thanks to the Republicans gutting the ACA subsidy. Oh, thank you for that.

[Ryan Davies]

You gotta work on your timing.

[Brian]

I didn't.

[Michael Knowles]

You know the most important part of comedy?

[Brian]

Timing?

[Michael Knowles]

Timing.

[Brian]

All right, so thanks to the Republicans gutting the Affordable Care act subsidies, health care is on the brink of being unaffordable for millions of Americans. It's time that the richest country in the history of the world guaranteed health care for its citizens.

[Ryan Davies]

I mean, the next seven richest countries.

[Brian]

Yeah. The rest of you are not interested in health care. That's fine. All right. I get it.

[Michael Knowles]

Okay.

[Ryan Davies]

You know, ironically, health care per person costs more here than it does in all those other countries that are our pure nations that guarantee it. Cost is cost.

[Michael Knowles]

All right, what's your topic?

[Ryan Davies]

Red states need to stop mooching off of blue states and make your own damn money.

[Michael Knowles]

Mine is.

[Brian]

Sorry, I just drank your.

[Michael Knowles]

Mine is that Trump broke the Democrat Party. He broke it completely. What? Mr. Davies, it's tight. This is a tight round. I don't know if it's the decibel reader or what, but I think. I think Ryan won. I actually think he won. I don't like how this is turning out. I'm so glad I could do it. I'm supposed to win everything. Yeah.

[Ryan Davies]

Okay.

[Michael Knowles]

All right. You're right. It's going well.

[Ryan Davies]

Okay, look, so, fun fact. I grew up in this state I now live in California. Californians receive per capita $0.80 of benefit for every federal dollar paid in taxes. Tennesseans get roughly $1.50 for every dollar spent in federal taxes. In other words, California underwrites the cost of running Tennessee and keeping its citizens safe, healthy, and all that stuff. So all I'm saying is y' all per capita need more Medicare than we do. We make more money than you do. Maybe we should try and equal that out. That's all I'm saying. That's all I'm saying.

[Michael Knowles]

Okay, so California gives more money to the federal government than it takes in, and that's a big blue state.

[Ryan Davies]

Yes, and the inverse is true for Tennessee.

[Michael Knowles]

Okay, now let's look at the other big blue state, New York. Does New York give more money to the federal government than it takes, or the opposite?

[Ryan Davies]

I believe it does. I could be wrong.

[Michael Knowles]

It does not. The Rockefeller Institute just found that New York is a net receiver.

[Ryan Davies]

So much fun. In high school, I was.

[Michael Knowles]

I was. New York receives $1.06 for every dollar that it gives. It's a net receiver. And it is true generally that depending on which statistics you look at the red states. Now we're talking. Thank you, sir. It is true generally that the red states do tend to take more than the blue states, just as states. It's not a huge gap. It's like a seven percentage point gap. But it's still noticeable, at least. The problem is, though, that disappears when you look not just at the states, because the blue states are much more densely populated. It's when you hone in per capita, that's where the numbers start to get a little squirrely. Because when you start looking in at federal entitlements, like Medicaid, for instance, education entitlements, head start. When you look at defense contracts, which disproportionately go to the blue states, all of a sudden you start to see that the red states per capita are actually contributing more than the blue states. Now, it's not totally.

[Ryan Davies]

That's really complicated.

[Michael Knowles]

It is very complicated, but it's finding.

[Ryan Davies]

A way to get there.

[Michael Knowles]

Yeah, yeah. No, well, obviously per capita matters because you can't just have a state with, like, the most people, the biggest, most densely populated one, and compare it to something that's incomplete.

[Ryan Davies]

Yeah, I mean, the data stands. What I said per capita. I mean, the aggregate outcome is that red states in aggregate receive more than.

[Michael Knowles]

They pay, depending on what you count and not when. I guess, not when you don't count. One of the biggest Blue states in the country, New York.

[Ryan Davies]

I mean, look, I'm not saying aggregate includes all of them. I'm just saying in aggregate.

[Michael Knowles]

Well, aggregate does include all of them.

[Ryan Davies]

That's what I'm saying. It's in there, but it's still aggregate for blue. That's all I'm saying.

[Michael Knowles]

But one of the ways that you arrive at that number is by not counting certain federal subsidies. So, like defense contracts, for instance. Is that federal welfare? Not exactly, but it obviously greatly benefits the states that it goes to. It benefits their employment, and it largely goes to blue states. It depends on which entitlements. Exactly. You're counting. So if you're only counting, say, Medicare and Social Security, that gives you one number. If you look at Medicaid, if you look at education, if you look at early childcare, you get different numbers.

[Ryan Davies]

Are we looking at roads and hospital health infrastructure?

[Michael Knowles]

Sure. If you only look at that, then yes, you'll find that the red states are text.

[Ryan Davies]

We're finding in a. Like we're trying to find the one fine line, not one fine line.

[Michael Knowles]

Medicaid is a big program.

[Ryan Davies]

Let's shift through all the hay here. The needle.

[Brian]

There you go.

[Ryan Davies]

You got it. We found a way to distinguish.

[Michael Knowles]

No, I'm just saying when you count everything, the situation's a lot more complicated. It's complicated and it's unclear, which is.

[Ryan Davies]

So good at making one liners out of it, which is how you have all this money in this show. Well done.

[Michael Knowles]

Am I grow up to be just like that? So am I a net donor to the federal government? There you go.

[Ryan Davies]

That's pretty good.

[Brian]

There you have it.

[Michael Knowles]

Okay.

[Brian]

I have nothing to contribute to this.

[Michael Knowles]

Really.

[Brian]

I don't really care about this.

[Ryan Davies]

My, how the tables have turned.

[Brian]

I just feel like today we found out that, you know, Trump is in The Epstein files 1500 times, and those are just the emails that were released. I don't know if you guys read that. It's hard for me to really care about this other thing. I gotta be honest.

[Michael Knowles]

All right, I kinda like that. I kind of like that you don't care about Ryan's topic.

[Brian]

Well, no, sorry, I just. It's not.

[Ryan Davies]

I look at a spreadsheet and other people yawn.

[Brian]

I love this for us. I think we should tag billionaires more. I mean, that's. That's my thing. I don't know.

[Ryan Davies]

Ooh, can we talk about how much. Here's what I'll say.

[Brian]

With the whole subsidies, I think we have enough. And I actually support. I actually Think it's fine that we subsidize each other. I'm not against that.

[Ryan Davies]

So, yeah.

[Brian]

If the reds, if the blue states are subsidizing the red states, cool. If some blue states are being subsidized by red states, great. If some people's health care is being subsidized by people who have a lot, great. Like, how about we build a society that cares for each other. How about we have more than enough? What we have is a distribution problem because there is enough for everybody. We have so much abundance. But the fact that we have more hungry children than most other developed countries, even though we are the most wealthy country in the history of the world, that to me is a problem.

[Ryan Davies]

That's on us.

[Brian]

And so that is on us. We have distribution problems. The fact that we almost cut snap.

[Michael Knowles]

For people heading into the holidays, Democrats cut snap. It wasn't Republicans. It was Democrats.

[Brian]

Literally the Republicans were holding those children hostage. It was a choice between children being fed for the holidays or people's health.

[Michael Knowles]

I agree. It was terrible when Democrats did that. I'm glad that they conceded after receiving nothing in return. I agree.

[Ryan Davies]

There's an emergency fund.

[Michael Knowles]

That could have happened.

[Brian]

The Democrats caved in quite pathetically. So if we wanted, we could take around and just trash Democrats together.

[Michael Knowles]

I love that idea. That sounds great.

[Female Survivor/Questioner]

Yeah.

[Brian]

Literally.

[Ryan Davies]

Absolutely.

[Brian]

We need totally limp wristed, just absolute, just completely pathetically folded. No ability to negotiate.

[Ryan Davies]

Chuck Schu.

[Brian]

Yeah.

[Michael Knowles]

I'm gonna vote for you to win this round. That was really great. I agree with 93% of what you just said.

[Brian]

But what I will say was that government shutdown was absolutely. Because Trump was trying to delay the release of the Epstein files. They did not want. They did not.

[Ryan Davies]

It's so fun to sit here and watch your faces. It's so good.

[Brian]

Grijalva Grijalv Alva's appointment was being delayed and as soon as the government reopened, she was sworn in and they immediately. And then we got a thousand emails just like that. That is absolutely why the government was shut down.

[Michael Knowles]

But I'm open to the theory. But it was only Democrats who voted to shut the government down. Well, yeah, because they lose Republicans, 24.

[Brian]

Million Americans are not going to afford their health there going into this year. Hello. Is anybody else on the Affordable Care act in the room? Is it just me that's not gonna be able to insure my kids? That's just me, nobody else.

[Michael Knowles]

I agree. The Affordable Care act was terrible too. I agree.

[Brian]

Literally nobody on Obamacare. Almost 30 million Americans are going to lose their health care subsidies. And we're already, by the way, we have more uninsured people in this country than any other country, even though we spend more on health care than any other.

[Michael Knowles]

Wait, but I thought the Affordable Care act was gonna solve health care once and for all and guarantee a right to health care for every single American is affordable. Even the premium premiums went up 95% in 15 years ago.

[Brian]

The affordable product was a sloppy compromise. Only because conservatives in any other country, you know, in Canada only he could.

[Michael Knowles]

Blame Obamacare on conservatives. That's amazing. That's amazing.

[Brian]

That's a compromise. Oh yeah.

[Ryan Davies]

A half measure is what we could get. Absolutely.

[Brian]

Any other developed country has universal health care. Michael, everybody.

[Michael Knowles]

Okay, so what's the issue?

[Brian]

Or not? Ironically, do you want everyone to have health care or not?

[Michael Knowles]

I certainly do. Luckily, Barack Obama promised me that every American has good quality, affordable health care. So I have to believe that your.

[Brian]

Way will not get us there. It will never get us there. Every country that has universal health care has it the same way. You know what's, you know where the only weird ones. Did you know that the conservatives in Canada are not trying to back away from their government run health care?

[Michael Knowles]

Do you know that 5% of Canadians who die each year are killed by their government or encouraged to commit suicide because their health care costs are too expensive?

[Brian]

Yeah, I think we certainly know that we spend way more on health care than Canada and they have higher life expectancies than us and they have more people insured. They have completely agreed.

[Michael Knowles]

Guys, I'm glad that we brought this to Canada and to healthcare because it's much more interesting than that stupid topic that Ben Davis picked. But if we're really going to compare these things, we should point out that right now in Canada, as in the UK, which both have socialist health care, one in ten citizens is waiting for a medical procedure.

[Brian]

They're waiting for 30 million uninsured Americans.

[Michael Knowles]

And in Canada they're being killed by.

[Brian]

The government if uninsured.

[Ryan Davies]

If I require a system that doesn't insure everybody in order to not wait for something, I'm the bad guy.

[Brian]

But.

[Michael Knowles]

But I was told by your party that we insure everybody and we actually do offer everybody. Okay, hold on. The bell rang. You can get your point in during the questions. Here we go. Super happy to be here. I've seen a lot of videos of people asking questions, so I'm super happy that I'm here today.

[Ryan Davies]

Yeah, love it.

[Michael Knowles]

Absolutely love it. Get it. Kind of talk about, oh Are you Canadian?

[Ryan Davies]

What's that you said? Takaboot. Are you Canadian?

[Michael Knowles]

I'm from Minnesota.

[Ryan Davies]

Oh, so close. Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah.

[Michael Knowles]

The Canada of America. I'm the problem. So talk a little bit about New York and how I prepare taxes and how about. I think after this new tax bill, I think half the country will not pay federal income tax. Talk about that a little bit about half the country. Of people who file tax returns in this country do not contribute. They do not pay any federal tax.

[Ryan Davies]

Yeah, but not 50% pay less.

[Brian]

It's true.

[Ryan Davies]

No, actually, I defy you to go look at the effective tax rate of versus working class people.

[Brian]

You guys know what the top Forbes 400. They did it. The Forbes 400. Do you know what their effective income tax rate is? You know what they're paying the 400 richest people in America? Somebody guess. 8.2%. Do you know what the Walton family paid in 2024? I wrote it down. 3.8%. That should radicalize.

[Michael Knowles]

What's the corporate tax? He asked what's the corporate tax?

[Brian]

That family, the Walton family has more wealth than 40%. Right.

[Michael Knowles]

But it's all tied up in the Walmart Corporation. That's his point. But you're not. No one's answering his question.

[Brian]

They can buy anything they want with.

[Michael Knowles]

That money, but no one's answering it. Yeah, the Waltons are very rich, but his question was how come the. How come 50% of Americans don't pay any taxes?

[Ryan Davies]

I think we have a really complicated tax system for sure. And that's a problem. That's a problem. I just think that we should distribute tax burden more fairly.

[Michael Knowles]

So what? So 60% don't pay any taxes. 70% don't pay any taxes.

[Ryan Davies]

I don't think those correlate, but we can play with it. Let's go.

[Michael Knowles]

What would be more. Okay. All right. One more thing on the Forbes 400. I'm happy you brought that up. If we took all. If we confiscated all the money of the Forbes 400, we would run the government for less than one year. That's a great point. We do not have. We do not have an income problem. We have a spending problem.

[Ryan Davies]

The actuarial point.

[Michael Knowles]

Great point.

[Ryan Davies]

This is important. Really good point. If you take the actuarial. Here's my buzzword. Actuarial evaluation of the federal government in a year's term is not a useful measure. The federal government's finances really need to be looked at over decades at a time. It's not as if. Snap your finger all these People's money for one year can't run the government. That's not how financing the most complicated organization in the history of Earth works. It's a good soundbite, but it doesn't match how complicated the situation is.

[Michael Knowles]

It's very complicated. That's why he won't give you anything.

[Ryan Davies]

Love me.

[Brian]

If we start anywhere, we should start with the $160 billion in taxes that the top 1% already owes that they haven't even paid.

[Ryan Davies]

Yeah. Oh, that's fun.

[Brian]

We should absolutely get those taxes.

[Ryan Davies]

Most of the people at the IRS who got fired by Doge are the people who deal with the complicated rich people tax problems where they dodge taxes. We didn't get rid of the people who deal audit everyday people. We got rid of the people who.

[Michael Knowles]

Deal with wealth tax $160 billion which would pay for, I think, what, 1.

[Brian]

15Th Green New Deal.

[Michael Knowles]

That'd be crazy.

[Brian]

Almost defunded. SNAP was 120 billion and people were complaining that that was too expensive. If we just.

[Michael Knowles]

The only people who shut down SNAP were the Democrats. I just want to keep reminding you.

[Ryan Davies]

Only because the federal look, the executive has. The president has a discretionary fund, an emergency fund that could have filled the entire responsibility of SNAP for the month in question.

[Michael Knowles]

The government shut down. The Democrats government shut down because the longest in history went so long that they had to go get private funding to pay the United States military. There was not discretionary money sitting around. The Democrats could have reopened it whenever they wanted and they finally did.

[Brian]

The courts were telling him to fund it and he was literally arguing with those children.

[Michael Knowles]

The shutdown occurred in Congress, not in the executive branch.

[Ryan Davies]

But you're talking about snap specifically government spending this big. Snapped this big. There was this much and then some money available he could have put to it. He just didn't. That's just a fact.

[Michael Knowles]

He's not a king or a dictator, as you guys like to say that he is. He actually has to listen to Congress.

[Ryan Davies]

On government funding which they gave and they gave him an emergency fund for things like this, which he could have used and he didn't.

[Michael Knowles]

Yes. After 41 days of government shutdown, it's difficult to make out the money out of thin air. But I'm glad that eight Democrats came to their senses, gave SNAP benefits back to their constituents. Do we have.

[Brian]

30 million Americans are going to lose their health insurance.

[Ryan Davies]

I agree.

[Michael Knowles]

Obamacare has been a disaster.

[Brian]

I can relate to this.

[Ryan Davies]

My emergency.

[Michael Knowles]

People are going to die, gentlemen. We have.

[Brian]

The people are going to die. Right. They estimate that about 50,000 people will die.

[Michael Knowles]

I voted against Obama. I hated that stupid health care law. I still hate it today. Keep going.

[Ryan Davies]

That's just statistics.

[Michael Knowles]

Okay, so you guys brought up health care. I'm going to go down that route now. I've lived in a country, but I was American, of course, that had affordable health care. Do you know how long you have to wait for affordable healthcare to actually go through?

[Ryan Davies]

I'm just curious.

[Michael Knowles]

Where were you? I was in Germany.

[Ryan Davies]

Okay.

[Michael Knowles]

Yeah.

[Ryan Davies]

I mean, look, I'm not saying that universal healthcare is flawless, but I'm also saying our system isn't flawless.

[Michael Knowles]

People die on Waitlist, is what he said.

[Ryan Davies]

No, no, let me be clear.

[Brian]

Sure.

[Michael Knowles]

I would be a minor vlog.

[Ryan Davies]

I would be thrilled if we could get out a spreadsheet and compare the outcome. Outcomes. Outcomes of healthcare in Germany versus the.

[Brian]

They live longer there. Spoiler alert. They live longer there.

[Ryan Davies]

And they're. That's true.

[Michael Knowles]

They live.

[Brian]

We can look at.

[Ryan Davies]

They spend less per person and overall they have better outcomes.

[Michael Knowles]

They live longer.

[Brian]

Bad experience. But other people are glad they're alive. So thank you for your sacrifice that you had to wait.

[Ryan Davies]

And you know what also doesn't happen in Germany is nobody ever goes bankrupt because of the medical bills.

[Michael Knowles]

What about Canada or the other countries in the. No, I'm not sure.

[Brian]

Affordable.

[Michael Knowles]

What's the question or what's the point? What about places like Canada that have that affordable health care that you're talking about that are also, I forgot a while ago, are looking into suicidal options for people because they don't want to pay for your health care?

[Ryan Davies]

Yeah, that's a. That's a what?

[Brian]

That's a. That's a fear.

[Ryan Davies]

You have. Physician assisted suicide. Is that what you're talking about?

[Michael Knowles]

It certainly is.

[Brian]

No, it's the death panels thing where it's the fear.

[Michael Knowles]

Physician assisted suicide.

[Brian]

No, they're going to encourage you to kill yourself.

[Michael Knowles]

They do. Yeah.

[Brian]

The medical don't.

[Ryan Davies]

That is fear mongering.

[Brian]

That is an admirable.

[Michael Knowles]

They literally.

[Ryan Davies]

You know what sucks about that lie is that it kind of trivializes real mental health shit, guys, by making it a topic.

[Brian]

Provided health care. It works great. People love Medicare. It's very popular.

[Michael Knowles]

Don't change the subject. We're talking about physician assisted suicide in Canada. That's the question that he brought me about, that one.

[Brian]

He mentioned it.

[Michael Knowles]

The questioner, who we're supposed to be responding to. So. But you don't want to respond to it because what is happening in Canada right now it's not a myth. 4.7% of Canadians, 4.7% of Canadians who die are killed by physician assisted suicide. By the way, it's not just the elderly though. We shouldn't be killing them either. But in Canada, because of socialist medicine, women who are over the age of 80, 60% of them, for instance, who have breast cancer need surgeries, do not get the surgeries. 90% of the women who are 50 and under do get the surgeries. Let me finish my point. They do get the surgeries because the government is necessarily rationing care. And they say give it to the younger women, let the older women die. They've now taken this to an extreme where they encourage physician assisted suicide. And by the way, that's not just for the elderly because 40 to 50% of it is for people who are under 75, people who suffer depression, anxiety. Instead of treating them with compassion, the government goes in and that's what you want. Michael, you are.

[Brian]

This is an absolute fear tactic myth that conservatives peddle out in order to fear monger about socialist healthcare.

[Michael Knowles]

You can look up all those numbers.

[Brian]

I've had socialist health care and anybody who has served this country has had it. Anybody been on Tricare before?

[Ryan Davies]

Hoorah.

[Brian]

I was a Marine and when I. Oh, it was incredible. What are you talking about? You are crazy.

[Michael Knowles]

Everything was fully do the military vets in the room like the VA is the va, the model of health care.

[Brian]

That we want Blue Shield over Tricare. You are absolutely insane. I want to. My healthcare was incredible when I was in New York.

[Ryan Davies]

All right. I disagree with anybody who feels like our system is flawed. Okay, it's definitely flawed. That's not a disagreement I have with you. It is flawed. I'm just saying. I'm just saying it's flawed everywhere. The difference is more of us are covered.

[Brian]

What I would also like to say is that if we're talking about Canada, it should be any of these countries that have universal health care. Canada, uk, Germany. The conservatives in those countries are not trying to get rid of it. It's very popular.

[Michael Knowles]

They're just coming to America for their medical procedures. What's the next question?

[Brian]

Our country, what is seen as a left position in any other country would be a very moderate position.

[Ryan Davies]

Yeah.

[Michael Knowles]

So to say that our health care.

[Ryan Davies]

System is flawed is such an understatement. Absolutely.

[Michael Knowles]

Have you seen a fricking commercial about drugs lately? How in the hell am I, as.

[Ryan Davies]

A self employed man supposed to get.

[Michael Knowles]

Insurance for me and my family when it's $400 for a of aspirin at a hospital.

[Ryan Davies]

Agree. We're the only country when the insurance.

[Michael Knowles]

Companies and the medical community are so tied up. It's all about big governments.

[Ryan Davies]

It's all about the money. We are the first. We are the only first world country where the pharmaceutical companies take the lead on pricing drugs.

[Michael Knowles]

Yeah. We also provide the most efficient care. I look, I acknowledge that the system in America is terrible because let's not forget, we are currently operating under the Barack Obama health care system, which was passed in 2010. I'll give one thing to Obama. It is still better than these other countries because in America, it's very difficult to find the numbers. But according to the Commonwealth survey, do.

[Brian]

You think it's better that one in three Americans have medical debt? That 30 million Americans are uninsured? You think that's better?

[Michael Knowles]

I think it's definitely better than 30%.

[Brian]

Other countries don't even know what medical debt is, by the way. When you bring it up to them, they'll look at you like you got a penis coming out of your forehead. They're like, what's wrong with you?

[Ryan Davies]

You look at me like that for other reasons.

[Michael Knowles]

Medical debt is very bad and our current Obamacare system is very bad. But I do think it's better than dying while waiting on waiting lists. Like in the social.

[Brian]

People are dying for lack of health care.

[Ryan Davies]

Yeah, it's easy.

[Brian]

Americans don't have health care.

[Ryan Davies]

It's easier to take a camera and find somebody who has a complaint about how long they waited for something. Hold on, I'll let you know. I'm done. But there are so many more. This is raw numbers. There are so many more Americans who wouldn't even find that camera because they never got health care. We can go find somebody in Canada who complains about the wage, but there are proportionally way more Americans who never even get to work.

[Michael Knowles]

So that is a truth. There's a number, actually that we can look to, and it's the Commonwealth survey, which looks at Canada, the UK Norway and the United States. And it found that in the United States, only 4% of people have to wait for extensive periods of time. A fraction of a fraction of. Most of them know those other guys.

[Brian]

Because they don't have insurance.

[Ryan Davies]

Michael, that's rigging the numbers.

[Michael Knowles]

I thought Barack Obama gave us universal health care.

[Ryan Davies]

It's easy to rig those numbers. There's not going to be a longer way.

[Michael Knowles]

Hold on. You're saying that the Commonwealth surveys rigged numbers?

[Ryan Davies]

No, I'm saying your general statement, which.

[Michael Knowles]

Is that somehow I'm just citing a survey. I'm saying a major study.

[Brian]

Right.

[Ryan Davies]

And the point you're trying to make is that the wait is longer, therefore bad. What I'm saying is much longer wait. The wait, yes.

[Michael Knowles]

For many more people.

[Ryan Davies]

The main difference between not for many more people. That's the rung.

[Michael Knowles]

That's what it is. That's what I said.

[Ryan Davies]

I'm telling you you're wrong.

[Michael Knowles]

Right. But I'm just citing the Commonwealth survey.

[Ryan Davies]

We are a society where the choices. Because everybody's insured, who waits? We are a society where a portion of society gets to get in line and the other portion doesn't at all. So would you say apples and oranges?

[Michael Knowles]

Would you say that in the United States today, if you want health care, you cannot receive it?

[Ryan Davies]

I would. No, actually, no. If you go.

[Michael Knowles]

Oh, no, no, no, no, no. Hold on, hold on.

[Brian]

Let him answer the question.

[Ryan Davies]

No, no, no, no. I'm happy to follow up.

[Brian]

Let him answer the question.

[Ryan Davies]

Actually, pretty much every hospital American is required to treat anybody who comes in, regardless of ability to pay per emergency. But here's the thing. Here's the thing about that. That dynamic specifically is why we as Americans pay more per capita for healthcare. Because a person is more expensive for their emergency treatment that the government later has to cover than if we had just given them insurance in the first.

[Brian]

Place so people could go to the doctor.

[Ryan Davies]

Yes.

[Brian]

Listen. The main difference between our healthcare and other countries is that in our country, there's a middleman called health insurance companies that rake in $71 billion in profit. And all they do, they don't provide health care. They deny health care. They are a middleman that extracts, making it more complicated. They stand between us and the doctors. No other country deals with that. That's our broken system.

[Michael Knowles]

I feel like I'm back in 2009 before we were supposed to have fixed all of that. Okay, next question.

[Brian]

You didn't let the conservatives stop that the only.

[Michael Knowles]

We made Barack Obama Medicare. Okay, all right, that's fine. Yes. Hey there, Ryan. Super happy to have this debate with you guys. I actually miss this about our country. Just having spirited debate.

[Ryan Davies]

We can disagree and have fun.

[Michael Knowles]

I found myself.

[Ryan Davies]

I'm wasted.

[Michael Knowles]

I'm a Republican. I found myself agreeing with some of the points you guys made. So thank you for being here. My question is around raising the corporate tax rate. That's a common Democrat talking point.

[Ryan Davies]

When we look at the Kamala campaign.

[Michael Knowles]

A microcosmic example of government overspending. Right. You give her A billion dollars. She goes $20 million in debt. How can you defend the idea of.

[Ryan Davies]

Giving politicians non business operators more and more money and somehow that'll solve the government's problems? Well, I'm not saying that the government is perfect at money spending. I think what we're talking about here is that every other first world nation gets more tax out of their corporations than we do. So all I'm saying is the revenues are higher here and we somehow get less of it. That's all. That's all.

[Michael Knowles]

Next question.

[Brian]

I don't have much to ask.

[Ryan Davies]

And if we weren't, and if we were getting as much out of our corporations here as they are in Ireland, we would have a better funded government.

[Michael Knowles]

I always. I turn to our friend at the VIP table. To me, he is more reliable than the bell.

[Ryan Davies]

I would love for you to interject with a non sequitur.

[Michael Knowles]

All right, that's the end of round three. Now, folks, we need to know who won. I don't even know what that round was about. I don't. Mr. Davies picked some stupid topic and then we ended up talking about healthcare. Jeffrey Episode Epstein.

[Ryan Davies]

I just want to agree that we.

[Brian]

Haven'T talked about Epstein enough.

[Michael Knowles]

In my opinion, we haven't talked about him nearly enough.

[Brian]

Who wants us to talk about Epstein more?

[Michael Knowles]

Maybe the next round.

[Ryan Davies]

Everybody line up. Who has a thought about Epstein?

[Michael Knowles]

Okay, now there's a question. Who won that round? Whatever that round was. Was it Ryan?

[Ryan Davies]

This guy?

[Michael Knowles]

Was it? Technically, it was Ryan's topic. It was it Ryan.

[Ryan Davies]

Woo.

[Michael Knowles]

Was it me? It's like 30, 33, 33, 34. What do we think, everybody? I think Michael Knowles got the round.

[Ryan Davies]

What a shock.

[Michael Knowles]

Hold on.

[Brian]

Who's he?

[Michael Knowles]

Hold on. I want a recount. I don't want it to seem like it was the 2020 election and completely rigged. I want to know was it was rigged. Who here thinks it was Brian?

[Ryan Davies]

See, that's.

[Michael Knowles]

Well, who here thinks it was Ryan?

[Ryan Davies]

You guys go on.

[Michael Knowles]

Who here thinks it was me? I kind of want to give it to Ryan just cause. But what do you think? We'll do it just cause. All right, Ryan's got it. Ryan got it.

[Ryan Davies]

Hey, I've always wanted to win on a technicality. Okay, that's great.

[Michael Knowles]

Okay, now a much more important decision. Who won the vip? There was no one. I don't know. That was. There's no clear winner. To me, they were all interesting.

[Brian]

The guy with the beard, he had a lot of the older men. The older gentleman, you think it was.

[Michael Knowles]

Oh, the Older gentleman. Yes. Where was the. From? Minnesota. Oh, wait, no, hold on.

[Ryan Davies]

Wait. I think I feel like he should get it just because of his accent.

[Michael Knowles]

Yeah, it was good. How about that?

[Ryan Davies]

Oh, yeah. Okay. Well, he won there.

[Female Survivor/Questioner]

Yeah.

[Ryan Davies]

Yeah.

[Michael Knowles]

You are going to the table thing.

[Ryan Davies]

The VIP for you there.

[Brian]

Thanks, man. What's up, bro?

[Michael Knowles]

Okay.

[Ryan Davies]

I hope it's okay that I'm standing now, this chair, and I don't get a hold.

[Michael Knowles]

Yeah, I know. Hold on. Why don't you start standing?

[Ryan Davies]

It was already weird, and then somehow it just got lower. I feel like it's my last relationship.

[Michael Knowles]

Now since you're at the VIP table, my dear friends who are over there, did we solve the world's problems, or is there something else that we need to hash out before we turn the music back on and I'll go get another drink?

[Female Survivor/Questioner]

You know, I'm hesitant to say this because I feel that it's gonna elicit a big bellow of booze.

[Ryan Davies]

A bellow of booze.

[Michael Knowles]

I, in fact, do want a big bellow of booze.

[Female Survivor/Questioner]

I am astonished. I don't want to be, like, clipped into whatever. So honestly, I don't really want to.

[Michael Knowles]

Be sitting at table.

[Female Survivor/Questioner]

Too late.

[Michael Knowles]

It's too late.

[Ryan Davies]

This is the wrong show.

[Female Survivor/Questioner]

But I am astonished at the amount of booze around or considering the Epstein thing being considered a deflection point when I think that, like, even in my walk over here, so many of you who have been booing at the Epstein things also shook my hand and thanked me for sharing my story of surviving trafficking. And I also feel that this current administration and platform ran so much on exposing the Epstein files and saying that, really, anybody that was suppressing the files probably had something to gain from suppressing them. So my thought is I don't feel that's been fully addressed. I feel that it's like, a lot of this is a lot of deflection from the Epstein files.

[Brian]

Let's just ask Michael. Michael, do you think Trump should release the Epstein files? And do you think that everybody exposed as a pedophile in those files should be imprisoned, potentially impeached?

[Michael Knowles]

Yes.

[Brian]

Democrat or Republican?

[Michael Knowles]

Yeah, I think. Look, I'm obviously, I'm all for maximal transparency that doesn't, like, you know, compromise.

[Ryan Davies]

National security hedging code number three.

[Michael Knowles]

No, obviously you can't. Like, you can't just release. No, I'm so. I'm all for a lot of transparency, especially on that issue. We always say national security, though, right? Like, every time it's like, let's get transparency Then it's like national security. And so you know that that's always the card. Every single time the military, industrial. Every time. National security. That's a great point. I'm all for, you know, releasing, especially because it's an issue of public interest. We have already released, like, a ton of the Epstein files, but I'm all for getting more, so long as it doesn't incriminate innocent people, which, you know, can be unfortunate. Like, there were accusations that were made by some of the supposed Epstein victims that were later retracted by those supposed victims. So you can't, you know, you can't.

[Brian]

Have the government to anyone.

[Ryan Davies]

It's a dicey topic to go over. Victim claims, though. That's dangerous.

[Michael Knowles]

No, but in the case of, like, Virginia Giuffre, she personally retracted some of her claims against people. So in that case, you wouldn't want people to be defamed when even the, you know, accuser is retracted, when people.

[Brian]

Are getting killed and death threats are going out. That makes sense. But. But multiple victims have accused Trump.

[Michael Knowles]

I just think the Trump thing is ridiculous. The Trump thing's ridiculous.

[Ryan Davies]

He campaigned on it like it wasn't a problem for him. I'll say this, he invited that attention.

[Michael Knowles]

The Trump thing's ridiculous. If Trump were seriously implicated in the Epstein files, I promise you, the party that was in power that tried to prosecute him four times, that tried to kick him off the ballot, that raided his home, and that justified killing him would have released the information.

[Brian]

You don't think he knew what's going on?

[Michael Knowles]

You promise? I promise.

[Ryan Davies]

Okay.

[Michael Knowles]

I can't wait for the. They justified killing it.

[Brian]

Do you like what came out today? Have you read what came out today?

[Michael Knowles]

I haven't read all of the, you know, dossier.

[Ryan Davies]

I feel like, just as a political analyst, like, it looks bad to be hiding it now. I'm not saying he's guilty of anything. I'm just saying it's a party foul once politically to, like, have this thing. I'm not giving you all the information about. It looks bad.

[Michael Knowles]

The whole admin campaigned on releasing all the files, and they did release a ton of files. And we have insane, as we mentioned, some were released today. So obviously they did do that. I guess my.

[Ryan Davies]

Obviously they did do what?

[Michael Knowles]

Released a ton of files. Okay, that's Pam Bondi handed out files.

[Ryan Davies]

Literally the slogan is release all the files. And he has not.

[Brian]

They've released some emails today.

[Michael Knowles]

Right. But I guess, I guess the emails.

[Brian]

By the way, said that Trump knew about the girl.

[Michael Knowles]

I guess Then my question, though, is if you were to release accusations that are unsubstantiated, that haven't been followed up with prosecutions, some of which have been retracted, certainly that would be massive prosecutorial misconduct. No party would do that.

[Ryan Davies]

Yeah, I agree with that generally. But I think if you're the president, if you're the leader, the free world, and you've made a thing about it, and then.

[Michael Knowles]

Then you defame innocent people. I don't know.

[Brian]

That's crazy.

[Michael Knowles]

I feel like we know more transparency.

[Brian]

Being g. Stacey Williams said that Trump and Epstein groped her while smiling at each other. Like a twisted game. Okay, all right.

[Ryan Davies]

This over here with the bell. Okay, Shut up.

[Brian]

It's time to go now. It's okay.

[Michael Knowles]

Do we. Do I don't even. Do we do. Who won that round? I don't even know. Was that a round? Does that count? I don't know if that counts.

[Ryan Davies]

Where are we?

[Michael Knowles]

But he's voting for me anyway. Thank you.

[Ryan Davies]

This guy right here is having a great time.

[Michael Knowles]

I appreciate that.

[Ryan Davies]

And so is the guy behind him.

[Michael Knowles]

Now, folks, in my opinion, nobody wins a bar fight. There are only losers. So we're not gonna vote for the winner. Okay? We're gonna vote for who lost.

[Brian]

Wow, this is gonna feel.

[Michael Knowles]

It's an audience vote.

[Ryan Davies]

I wanna go home.

[Michael Knowles]

It's an audience vote. Not before the vote. First up, who here thinks that Brian lost?

[Ryan Davies]

What's the inverse of a sympathy vote?

[Michael Knowles]

An antipathy vote. Who here thinks that Ryan lost?

[Brian]

I don't think.

[Michael Knowles]

You think he lost more than Brian? Maybe.

[Ryan Davies]

Who are you? My ex.

[Michael Knowles]

Who here thinks that I lost my mother? That was kind of even. I don't know. I don't know. Who do we think it was? Should we try it again? Who here thinks that our hippie friend won?

[Female Survivor/Questioner]

Yay.

[Ryan Davies]

Yeah. Nobody knows what happened, but you talked.

[Michael Knowles]

All right. Thank you so much for being here. It's absolutely wonderful. And I say that our hippie friend buys the next round. Thank you very much for being here.

[Brian]

See you next time.

[Michael Knowles]

Welcome back to Listen to youo Heart. Heart. I'm Jerry. And I'm Jerry's Heart. Today's Repatha Evolocumab Heart. Why'd you pick this one? Well, Jerry, for people who have had a heart attack like us, diet and exercise might not be enough to lower the risk of another one.

[Brian]

Okay.

[Michael Knowles]

To help know if we're at risk, we should be getting our ldlc, our bad cholesterol checked, and talking to our doctor.

[Ryan Davies]

I'm listening.

[Michael Knowles]

And if it's still too high. Repatha can be added to a statin to lower our LDL C and our heart attack risk. Hmm. Guess it's time to ask about repatha.

[Brian]

Do not take Repatha if you are allergic to it. Serious allergic reactions can occur. Get medical help right away if you have trouble breathing or swallowing swelling of the face, lips, tongue, throat or arms. Common side effects include runny nose, sore throat, common cold symptoms flu or flu like symptoms back pain, high blood sugar and redness pain or bruising at the injection site. Listen to your heart.

[Michael Knowles]

Ask your doctor about Repath. Learn more at repatha.com or call 1-844-repatha.