2 Liberals vs. 1 Conservative: BAR FIGHT | Sisson & Chris Mowrey

Summary

The Michael Knowles Show — 2 Liberals vs. 1 Conservative: BAR FIGHT | Sisson & Chris Mowrey

Date: February 7, 2026
Host: Michael Knowles (The Daily Wire)
Guests: Harry Sisson (liberal activist), Chris Mowrey (liberal commentator)
Format: Live debate with audience Q&A
Theme: “Bar Fight” – a raucous but structured face-off between conservative host Knowles and two progressive voices, dissecting the culture and politics of 2026 with audience participation.

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Episode Overview

In this lively, adversarial episode, Michael Knowles convenes Harry Sisson and Chris Mowrey for a "Bar Fight" debate, pitting his conservative perspective against their progressive views on some of the most contentious issues in American politics. The discussion pivots between high-profile scandals (Epstein files, Trump and Biden controversies), policy (infrastructure, immigration, ICE raids), the nature of democracy within parties, political violence, “stolen land” narratives, and audience Q&A on hot-button issues.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Trump, Epstein Files, and Scandal Debates

(02:26–14:07)

• Topic: Did Trump "cover up" the Epstein files, and is this among the worst American scandals?

  • Harry Sisson claims Trump opposed full release of Epstein files, pressured GOP lawmakers not to back certain disclosures, and is hiding deeper personal involvement.
  • Chris Mowrey rebuts that Trump presided over the largest declassification of Epstein-related docs (3.5 million), says Joe Biden never released any.
  • Sisson alleges obstruction is still an attempt at cover-up, regardless of outcomes.
  • Mowrey retorts with historical perspective, mentioning scandals like Teapot Dome, Grant Admin, Clinton-Lewinsky, and Chappaquiddick, claiming Trump’s conduct is not the worst.

• Notable Moment:

  • Harry Sisson on the necessity of full transparency:
    "There are emails out there where they're pretty clearly talking about committing crimes… The American people deserve to know who those names are." (03:10)

• On Evidence Against Trump: Sisson cites a WSJ report alleging Trump allowed Epstein special access at Mar-a-Lago.
  Mowrey and Knowles ask for concrete prosecutable crimes; Sisson concedes direct evidence is currently lacking but rebuts that obstruction and enabling are still damning.

2. Comparing Biden & Trump’s Productivity

(20:24–25:54)

• Topic: Was Biden the most effective modern president?
  • Harry Sisson touts Biden as extraordinarily productive, passing more fiscal legislation than any president in 70 years, including infrastructure, CHIP manufacturing, PACT Act for veterans.
  • Knowles and Mowrey challenge on inflation and "pork," alleging Biden's bills included unnecessary spending and led to inflation spikes.
  • Arguments ensue whether economic woes are due to Biden, Trump, or prior systemic issues.
• Memorable Exchange:
  • Sisson, listing signature Biden bills:
    "Joe Biden passed the largest infrastructure bill in American history … rebuilt roads and bridges and removed every single lead pipe in America." (21:50)
  • Mowrey retorts:
    "The problem with those bills is … they passed a lot of nonsense spending that damaged the economy, brought inflation up to 9%." (24:41)
  • Sisson fires back:
    "Donald Trump spent more money than Joe Biden did." (25:15)

3. Party Nomination Processes & Democracy

(26:16–29:59)

• Question: Is a party’s non-competitive nomination anti-democratic?
  • Sisson and Knowles argue that Kamala Harris (as post-Biden nominee) was uncontested because no Democrat chose to run—delegates still technically voted—so the process was not subverted.
  • Mowrey notes parties are private clubs lacking true democracy; the rules could change arbitrarily.
• Sisson:
  "If Democrats want a primary process, then somebody has to primary Kamala Harris. Nobody did." (27:19)

4. ICE Raids and Trump’s Immigration Policy

(32:49–36:44 & 38:09–40:45)

• Topic: Are Trump's ICE raids reckless and "limitless"?
  • Knowles (channeling audience Q): Trump’s ICE ramped up raids, targeting blue-state cities with less oversight, leading to abuses including fatal shootings.
  • Mowrey claims blue states refuse to cooperate, making ICE’s presence necessary.
  • Sisson attacks alleged hypocrisy:
    "You don't care about crime. You voted for a convicted felon." (36:12)
  • Arguments spiral into legal technicalities about deported individuals’ status, with both sides citing and disputing “Kilmar Rodrigo Garcia’s” legal status and humanitarian parole.

5. Border Enforcement & Value of Immigration

(62:26–87:02, extended segments)

• Core Conflict: Should all undocumented immigrants be deported or only violent criminals?
  • Mowrey pushes for strict enforcement: "Because it's the law."
  • Knowles (liberal in this segment, note role reversal): Argues for focusing on violent criminals, citing Cato Institute and other studies showing immigrants are net economic contributors and less likely to commit violent crimes.
  • Audience challenges: Why risk even one American death for illegal immigration?
  • Mowrey and some audience insist: "Every crime committed by an illegal immigrant was preventable by enforcement."
  • Sisson consistently brings up Trump’s criminal record as a counterpoint to law-and-order arguments.
• Notable Quote (on immigration economics):
  • "Undocumented people have paid the federal government roughly $10 trillion in taxes … that's a $4 trillion surplus." — Knowles citing Cato Institute (64:35)
  • "Every violent crime that an illegal alien commits is unnecessary." — Mowrey (91:15)

6. Political Violence — Which Side Is Worse?

(71:08–78:48)

• Mary Margaret (audience/White House correspondent) challenges Harry, claiming right-wing violence is overblown compared to recent left-wing violence (citing Charlie Kirk’s assassination).
• Sisson rebuts, detailing right-wing acts (Melissa Hortman's murder, Jan 6, Paul Pelosi assault) and accuses Trump of mocking left-leaning victims.
• Mowrey brings up data from The Atlantic showing rise in left-leaning violence, especially when factoring in underreported events.
• Knowles and Sisson discuss personal experiences with threats and violence.
• On Trumper Pardons:
  • Sisson:
    "Do you condemn Donald Trump pardoning people who beat police officers almost to death?" (76:44)
  • Mowrey: Evades outright condemnation, says, "I don't fully condemn political violence … in certain cases the death penalty is justified." (77:42)

7. "Stolen Land" & Historical Narratives

(61:12–86:13)

• Mowrey: America isn’t “stolen” — new world land acquired by war, treaties, and purchase in line with international law.
• Knowles/Sisson: Argue America's founding involved "sin," and that while the phrase “all land is stolen land” is simplistic, it reflects a complex history of conquest and displacement.
• Sisson rebuffs as minor cultural flashpoint:
  "There are probably more important issues out there than what Billie Eilish does at the Grammys." (85:07)
• Audience Question: Should progressives who advocate hosting immigrants in homes actually do so?
  • Sisson: "It's voluntary … I won't be taking anybody in because I have a one-bedroom in New York City." (81:45)
  • Mowrey jabs about size of Sisson’s apartment.

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Audience Q&A Highlights

• Gavin Newsom vs. JD Vance (2028 prospects) (41:22–45:13)

  • Sisson and Knowles both assert Newsom as stronger, explain JD Vance’s flip-flop on Trump as opportunistic.
  • "JD Vance, obviously, his entire career depends on him loving Donald Trump." — Knowles (43:33)

• Christian Zionism, Israel, and Biblical Justification (48:16–52:32)

  • Mowrey outlines Catholic (non-evangelical) theology: Christians are spiritual Israel; secular Zionism is a product of 19th century nationalism.

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On ICE shootings:

  • "He was tackled by eight ICE agents on the ground and then shot in the back of the head nine times." — Sisson on Alex Preddy (54:51)
  • "If you tapped me with your SUV, I probably would." — Mowrey on use of force (55:52)

• On January 6 and political violence:

  • "It's the largest example of political violence in modern American history." — Sisson (73:41)
  • "I don't fully condemn political violence in as much as … in certain cases, the death penalty is justified." — Mowrey (77:45)

• On illegal immigration debates:

  • "We want legal immigration. We recognize the system is broken. We wanted to fix it. Joe Biden introduced a bill. Donald Trump shut it down." — Sisson (93:21)

• On blowback and hypocrisy:

  • "You voted for a felon. You can't talk about them being undocumented and breaking a law if you voted for a felon." — Sisson (68:55)

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Timestamps by Major Segments

| Segment | Start | End | |---------------------------------------------------|------------|------------| | Trump & Epstein Files | 02:26 | 14:07 | | Productivity & Legislative Achievement Debate | 20:24 | 25:54 | | Nomination Process/Democracy | 26:16 | 29:59 | | ICE Raids & Immigration Policy | 32:49 | 36:44 | | Border/Legal Status, Deeper Immigration | 62:26 | 94:31 | | Political Violence & Pardons | 71:08 | 78:48 | | “Stolen Land” & Historical Claims | 61:12 | 86:13 | | Audience Q&A (Newsom/Vance, Israel, etc.) | 41:22 | 52:32 |

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Tone & Style

• The debate is robust, combative, and frequently sarcastic, with plenty of audience involvement and live reactions.
• Sisson and Mowrey both use humor and pointed jabs, while Knowles is sharp, occasionally sardonic, and devotees significant time to legal, historical, and philosophical context.
• Insults and laughter abound, particularly when referencing contentious accusations (Epstein, Trump criminality, ICE raids, etc.).
• The debate is often circular, with repeated demands for yes-or-no answers vs calls for "nuance."

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Conclusion

An unruly but revealing episode, this Bar Fight format underscores the deep divides—and some surprising overlaps—between contemporary liberals and conservatives. Issues of law, social justice, political violence, and America’s historical narrative are litigated energetically. Through it all, each side accuses the other of bad faith and hypocrisy, while audience questions and moderator jibes keep the conversation fast-paced, unscripted, and anarchic.

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For listeners pressed for time:
Key segments to catch for the most sparks are the Epstein files debate (02:26–14:07), the immigration and ICE argument (32:49–40:45 and 62:26–94:31), and the discussion of “stolen land” (61:12–86:13), each of which features memorable back-and-forths, pointed audience questions, and distilled versions of contemporary political fault lines.

Transcript

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[Harry Sisson]

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[Harry Sisson]

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[Michael Knowles]

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[Chris Mowry]

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[Michael Knowles]

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[Mary Margaret]

The IRS said I filed my return, but I haven't.

[Chris Mowry]

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[Michael Knowles]

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[Chris Mowry]

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[Mary Margaret]

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[Michael Knowles]

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[Harry Sisson]

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[Chris Mowry]

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[Michael Knowles]

Where's Harry?

[Harry Sisson]

Joe Biden was one of the most productive presidents in modern American history.

[Chris Mowry]

We got a boot him out. I think most Americans agree with that. I think most Americans only enforce the law when I want to. No King.

[Harry Sisson]

She was shot when cops were being beaten and your daddy pardoned the cop beaters.

[Chris Mowry]

Well, welcome to Bar Fight. I'm Michael Knowles. I'm George. Joined tonight by two guests.

[Michael Knowles]

That's just wrong. That's just raw.

[Chris Mowry]

He is the Roy to Harry Siegfried and Chris Mowry.

[Michael Knowles]

Joe Biden signed more fiscal legislation into law. Hold on. More.

[Chris Mowry]

Did he sign it?

[Harry Sisson]

And I saw you get walked by Adam Magler on this. Can you be quiet?

[Chris Mowry]

The crown prince of left wing social media, Harry Sisong. Now here is how it works. We will be debating free of charge the most controversial topics of our day. The bell will ring, we will duke it out for that round and then our friends in the crowd can come up to the microphone to pick a fight with any of us. Anyone who comes up to the mic can win special prizes and a seat at our VIP table sponsored by Redneck Riviera Whiskey. Gentlemen, are you ready? Let's do it. Round one.

[Michael Knowles]

Come on.

[Chris Mowry]

It's now round three. I think. Actually, Harry, it's your topic.

[Harry Sisson]

Oh, we're going with me first.

[Chris Mowry]

What's your claim?

[Harry Sisson]

My claim is that the Trump cover up of the Epstein files is one of the worst scandals in American history.

[Chris Mowry]

Okay, all right.

[Harry Sisson]

Boom.

[Chris Mowry]

What's your argument?

[Harry Sisson]

I mean, look, what we've seen from Donald Trump in the past, whatever, six months or ever since he got into office has been nothing short of gross. And this is a serious. We're having fun, but this is a serious topic, right? We're talking about kids, women, and even some men being abused. You know, he never wanted the files to come out. When there was the discharge petition, he was calling up Lauren Boebert and all the Republicans and tell them to don't put your name on it. And he was threatening them, essentially. And that's even what Lauren Boebert said.

[Michael Knowles]

She's still in Congress.

[Harry Sisson]

She's still in his good graces. And even when the files are out, it's kind of been a trickle, Right. We've had some and then some and then some. And even the files we've all seen now, which they're claiming, all of them, they're not. Some redactions are there that make me a little nervous, make me uncomfortable, and I think they should unredact everything that they can within the law. But there's emails out there where they're pretty clearly talking about committing crimes, and it's still redacted. I think the American people deserve to know who those names are. And I think Donald Trump should have to answer for his involvement with Jeffrey Epstein, which goes much deeper than I think the right likes to let on. You disagree? I'll talk to you. We'll talk a conversation.

[Chris Mowry]

Okay. So your claim really has two claims.

[Michael Knowles]

Sure.

[Chris Mowry]

The first is that Trump has covered up the Epstein files. And then the second claim is that that is the worst scandal in American history.

[Harry Sisson]

It's one of the worst, yeah.

[Chris Mowry]

One of the worst. Okay. I think you are impressively wrong on both counts. I'd love to hear the first being the fact that Trump not only has not covered up the Epstein files, but he has, in fact, to date, released three and a half million Epstein files, which is the single largest declassification in American history. And it's not even really. What.

[Harry Sisson]

Why did he do that? Did he want to? He did it, but did he want to? Did he try to stop it?

[Chris Mowry]

Well, he released some files along the way, but he arrested.

[Harry Sisson]

Did he try to stop it?

[Chris Mowry]

He redacted some of the files, and he opposed the release of all.

[Harry Sisson]

And then he was calling up some of which is child, and he was calling up Republicans, telling them not to vote. But if he wanted the files to come out, why was he telling Lauren Boeber not to do it.

[Chris Mowry]

The claim that you made is that Trump covered up the Epstein files.

[Harry Sisson]

That's part of my claim. That's part of the COVID up. Right. Him calling members.

[Chris Mowry]

No, that is your claim. Yeah.

[Harry Sisson]

Right. So him calling up members of Congress, telling them not to release the files, not to vote to release the files.

[Chris Mowry]

We have to establish the first fact before we get to the second.

[Harry Sisson]

Sure.

[Chris Mowry]

The first fact is you're claiming he covered up the Epstein files, but then you are admitting that Trump not only released all of those Epstein files, Joe Biden didn't release single Epstein file.

[Harry Sisson]

Well, we'll talk about that.

[Chris Mowry]

Donald Trump, Donald Trump released three and a half million of them, which is the single largest release of classified information in American history.

[Harry Sisson]

If you're attempting a cover up, that's still a cover up. Right. So Donald Trump just failed. He got pressured by the law and Congress, but he still tried to cover them up. Don't you think that him calling Lauren Boeber, telling her not to put her name on the discharge petition is concerning?

[Chris Mowry]

Well, I actually do agree that not all of those files should be released. I think some of that is a little bit reckless. I think it undermines certain principles of American justice, like innocent until proven guilty. I think a lot of those claims have been debunked which we saw in the files. And I think some of it is actually child sexual abuse material which obviously should not be released.

[Harry Sisson]

But we know that there are still more documents out there like no, no.

[Chris Mowry]

No, aside from should not be released and claims that have been disproven even in courts, even by judges. So obviously those names shouldn't be released. Nevertheless, on the first point, there is no arguing it is the largest release ever in American history. Therefore he didn't cover it up to the second point that if it were true that he had done the opposite of what he actually did, would that be one of the worst scandals in American history? And I can think of a few others. I'll try to go through them quickly. Aaron Bur, former Vice President of the United States tried to establish a brand new country in America. That seems to me like a bigger scandal. Teapot Dome. Do you remember that one from, you remember from social studies, Teapot Dome, where the Secretary of the Interior went to jail cuz he took bribes to sell Navy oil. I'm thinking of another one more recent.

[Harry Sisson]

Let's say Trump stealing classified documents might be the.

[Chris Mowry]

Which classified documents?

[Harry Sisson]

Trump stealing classified documents.

[Chris Mowry]

Oh, hold on. The documents that he stored in a lower degree in less egregious ways than Joe Biden held him next to his cracking.

[Harry Sisson]

Robert Herr found no intent on Joe Biden.

[Chris Mowry]

Not one of the worst, but just a couple others that come to mind. A few others come to mind. US Grant hundred people went to jail over a scandal that also implicated his private secretary. That's probably a bigger scandal. Bill Clinton using his intern as a human humidor in the Oval Office and then perjuring himself about it. I think that's a bigger scandal. And then one.

[Harry Sisson]

What about Trump actually assaulting women?

[Chris Mowry]

Hold on one second, we'll get to that. One second. The last scandal I'll mention is when a sitting Democrat senator drunk drove his mistress into a pond and then left her there to drown and remain the lion of the Senate. I think all of those and many others others are much bigger than the supposed scandal of Trump not declassifying the Epstein documents, which he would have been well within his rights to do. I actually might have favored some of that. But regardless, he didn't do it cuz he declassified pre and a millionaire.

[Harry Sisson]

Wait, so everything you just mentioned in terms of scandals, I agree that those are bad. That's why I said it's one of the worst cases.

[Chris Mowry]

But it's not worse than President Trump hypothetically not releasing criminal.

[Harry Sisson]

We're talking about rich, powerful men connected to the government, connected internationally, abusing children, trafficking children. I think that's a pretty bad scandal. And I think covering that up and protecting the men who did it, which he did, is a bad scandal.

[Chris Mowry]

What? Which he obviously didn't do.

[Harry Sisson]

What? What? Donald Trump not protecting them, cover it up. So we just, we just found an email in the Epstein files of somebody, their name is redacted, we don't know who it is. It's sent to Jeffrey Epstein saying last night was fun, your littlest girl was a little naughty. Should that be unredacted?

[Chris Mowry]

Whoever is implicated in that should be prosecuted. I agree.

[Harry Sisson]

Okay, great. But they're not doing that. The name is redacted. We don't know who it is. Why? If that's, if it's not a cover up, why is the name redacted?

[Chris Mowry]

Who do you think in the Epstein files, who do you think we should prosecute?

[Harry Sisson]

I'm asking about this in particular, this name that's redacted, right? Because we don't know who it is. I can't give you an answer in terms of this specific email. So should that be redacted? Is Donald Trump wrong for redacting the.

[Chris Mowry]

Question about the redactions or not redacting.

[Harry Sisson]

Can you talk about the specific email?

[Chris Mowry]

Well, I could talk about the specific email. The question is, is there sufficient evidence of a crime and have there been investigations?

[Harry Sisson]

Do you think that's sufficient evidence of a crime?

[Chris Mowry]

Not necessarily, because there are a lot of false claims.

[Harry Sisson]

Really? You mentioned the trouble to Epstein's personal email saying your littlest girl was a little naughty. You don't think that's evidence of a crime?

[Chris Mowry]

It certainly could be evidence of a crime.

[Harry Sisson]

Do we think that's evidence of crime? Anybody? Does anybody disagree?

[Michael Knowles]

Okay, good.

[Harry Sisson]

We have some people agreeing.

[Michael Knowles]

How about Republicans?

[Harry Sisson]

I see a MAGA hat there. Do you guys think that's evidence of a crime? Harry?

[Chris Mowry]

No.

[Harry Sisson]

Come on, guys.

[Chris Mowry]

That's a bad position to take. Let's try to bring it to a tangible question. You said Trump's all over the Epstein files. What are the charges? What are the claims? Do you think should be prosecuted?

[Harry Sisson]

I mean, if we don't have all the files. So maybe there is something in there that indicates Donald Trump. Well, what we know, I think, you know, the behavior is morally, morally abhorrent. And. And it's not just information that's contained in the Epstein files. We got a Wall Street Journal article that was published December 30th of 2025 that talked about how Donald Trump in the 1990s and early 2000s would send young girls to Epstein's house to give him massages. That is only a perk that was given to members of Mar A Lago. Epstein was not a member of Mar A Lago. He specifically made an exception for Epstein to get massages at his house. And everybody in the spa knew that Epstein was creepy. Donald Trump continued to send them.

[Chris Mowry]

I'll read my question.

[Harry Sisson]

Wait, wait, wait. I'm not done yet. Marla Maples, Donald Trump's wife at the time, even confided in Donald Trump, said that Epstein is creepy. You shouldn't hang out with him.

[Michael Knowles]

He.

[Chris Mowry]

Will you answer my question, though? Is there any evidence of a crime that Donald Trump committed that you alluded.

[Harry Sisson]

To, that you think he should be Epstein? Well, I mean.

[Chris Mowry]

Well, you mean what? I'll let you answer.

[Harry Sisson]

Perfect. In the Epstein files we have so far, because there are still millions out there. I don't think there's enough evidence to prosecute Donald Trump.

[Chris Mowry]

However.

[Harry Sisson]

However, when you're looking at Donald Trump, if he had knowledge that he was sending young girls to Epstein's house to be abused, do you think he should be prosecuted?

[Chris Mowry]

That's a big if.

[Harry Sisson]

If wishes were we have a Wall Street Journal. We have dozens.

[Chris Mowry]

Really?

[Harry Sisson]

Not an, not an op ed. It was fact checked by the entire Wall Street Journal department. Fact check. Do you think that if Donald Trump was found and we have all these Mar A Lago employees saying that this happened.

[Chris Mowry]

This is what I'm asking you. What is the evidence of a crime that he committed?

[Harry Sisson]

So wait, ok, so that Wall Street Journal article, if Donald Trump, what is the specific crime? He knew that Epstein was creepy and he was actively sending.

[Chris Mowry]

Knowing someone's creepy is not a crime. What is the crime?

[Harry Sisson]

Wait, wait, wait, wait.

[Michael Knowles]

So wait, hold on, hold on. If he, if he's sending young, there.

[Chris Mowry]

Would be a lot of prosecutions. If we could go after everyone. We think.

[Harry Sisson]

Wait, wait. Okay, sorry, go ahead.

[Michael Knowles]

If he's sending young girls, you said in this, in this article, sending young girls, circumstance. How old is that not facilitating sex trafficking.

[Chris Mowry]

It's all based on hypotheticals, the details.

[Harry Sisson]

Of which neither everybody older, the girls, everybody in the spa.

[Chris Mowry]

When did it happen?

[Harry Sisson]

Wait, it doesn't. If they're 18 and getting abused, it's still a crime, right? So it doesn't like they could. The age.

[Chris Mowry]

What do you mean by abuse?

[Harry Sisson]

Assaulted notice. What do we mean by assault? Virginia Giuffre was picked up from Mar A Lago and assaulted by Jeffrey Epstein.

[Chris Mowry]

What claims did Virginia Giuffre make?

[Harry Sisson]

I mean she was, she was, it was, it was awful. I mean it was rape. It was everything against him, against Jeffrey Epstein, against Jeffrey Epstein and Ghislaine Maxwell.

[Chris Mowry]

And Prince Andrew and who else?

[Harry Sisson]

I mean, I don't know who else.

[Chris Mowry]

There was a very. The biggest case involving Virginia Giuffre involved Alan Dershowitz. That's one of the biggest guys Roman jail right now. Here's one of the problems for this and it's one of the problems for all the claims you guys are making. Sure she retracted that claim. In the case of the allegations about Donald Trump, there's a case in which they say that a 13 year old girl decades ago was raped by Donald Trump. So you say, well, we should look into that if that really happens, shouldn't we? And then when we look a little deeper, we find oh actually has been adjudicated. There was not only one court case, there were multiple court cases. One in California, one second one in California where it was dismissed by a judge. Two other times she brought it up, represented by Lisa Bloom, and both times she retracted her lawsuit.

[Harry Sisson]

You're not arguing against what I'm saying. I'm bringing up the same idea I'm.

[Chris Mowry]

Saying these are unsubstantiated claims. And you say, well, I've got Wall Street Journal making big.

[Harry Sisson]

We have the Wall Street Journal talking to multiple Mar a Lago employees, not just random people.

[Chris Mowry]

Okay, but we can't name any crimes. Very interesting.

[Harry Sisson]

I think that's a crime.

[Chris Mowry]

What is the crime? I just asked facility.

[Harry Sisson]

Great. You still wouldn't prosecute facilitating sex trafficking. You just said you would facilitate facilitating sex trafficking.

[Chris Mowry]

On what occasion? In what Circumstance?

[Harry Sisson]

In the 19. I just told you. In the 1990s, in the early 2000s, Epstein was actively having young girls come to his house from Mar a Lago Spa. There were a variety of ages.

[Chris Mowry]

Give me some numbers.

[Harry Sisson]

There were a variety of ages.

[Chris Mowry]

Okay, if you know the ages, what are the.

[Harry Sisson]

They were a variety of. There were. There were some kids. Virginia Duffrey was a kid when she worked at the Mar A Lago spot.

[Chris Mowry]

But she did not retracted her claims. That's the point of that.

[Harry Sisson]

You think that Virginia Duffrey lied about the assault from Epstein?

[Chris Mowry]

She said that she lied about.

[Michael Knowles]

Oh, wow.

[Chris Mowry]

Okay, wow, wow. Questions? I'm just trusting her. I believe all women.

[Harry Sisson]

What's your agree that Donald Trump's rapist.

[Mary Margaret]

All right, Harry, I have a question for you. Let's establish one fact first. Jeffrey Epstein died in 2019. Joe Biden became president in 2020. The liberal media will do anything to hate on Donald Trump, whether he solve world hunger or even find peace in Gaza or something crazy. There's no peace in Gaza, so they'll do anything to hate on him. If Biden could find something in the Epstein files to have against Donald Trump, why would he not release those?

[Harry Sisson]

Sure. Happy to answer it.

[Mary Margaret]

He had four years to do it. Why didn't he do it?

[Harry Sisson]

Happy to answer that. Four years. I heard you the first time.

[Mary Margaret]

Unlimited access to these documents, and he didn't release them.

[Michael Knowles]

What was that about?

[Harry Sisson]

I heard you.

[Michael Knowles]

We are just.

[Harry Sisson]

So Ghislaine Maxwell's case was still working the way through the courts, Right? She was still appealing. There was still a lot going on there. Which does restrict certain documents from being released, because that's DOJ law. If they're part of an active criminal investigation or prosecution, they can't be released. But Kamala Harris was actually asked this question on Jimmy Kimmel recently. She said, you know, Kimmel said, why didn't you release the Epstein files? And Kamala Harris said, we had an independence between the presidency and the doj, which has disappeared under Donald Trump. So Joe Biden nor Kamala Harris went to the DOJ and said, well, we'll release all the Epstein files because we want to hurt Donald Trump. They respected that independence, which should exist but no longer exists under Donald Trump.

[Chris Mowry]

That's a very good point.

[Mary Margaret]

The same DOJ that terrorized people, that they shouldn't have the same DOJ that Biden militarized, that same doj.

[Chris Mowry]

Wait, I don't want to lose the point because you make a very good point. You say, well, hold on. It would have been inappropriate for Joe Biden to intervene with the DOJ and to encourage them to release these files. But weren't you just criticizing Donald Trump for not releasing the files, which he actually did end up.

[Harry Sisson]

You're misunderstanding my point.

[Chris Mowry]

I'm very confused.

[Harry Sisson]

You're misunderstanding my point.

[Chris Mowry]

Okay.

[Harry Sisson]

There was an act of law working its way through Congress, and Donald Trump got involved in that. And he's obviously been communicating with the lawyer.

[Chris Mowry]

The law to mandate this unprecedented release of classified material. I agree. Which I'm circumspect about myself.

[Harry Sisson]

Okay. He was actively involved in this. He was actively taking a role in it. Joe Biden took no role in releasing the Epstein files. He let the DOJ do its own thing.

[Chris Mowry]

So it. But. So if the DOJ under President Trump decided not to release the Epstein files.

[Harry Sisson]

You would support that Donald Trump, regarding the release of the Epstein files. No, listen, you're misunderstanding my point. The President should not take a position in this. They should be independent. So Donald Trump took a firm position of no files released. Joe Biden took no position, said, hey, you guys are the lawyers. You're the experts. You're the doj. We don't want to be involved.

[Chris Mowry]

So you would prefer if President Trump had never voiced an opinion on this hot political matter? You would be. You would prefer if.

[Harry Sisson]

I would prefer Donald Trump not interfere with.

[Chris Mowry]

You would prefer if the DOJ did not release a single document under.

[Harry Sisson]

I would prefer Donald Trump on this point in particular, DOJ independence. I would prefer Donald Trump not take a position and be involved.

[Chris Mowry]

Therefore, you would prefer the DOJ if not to release a single document?

[Harry Sisson]

Well, I mean, they're mandated by. They're mandated. They're mandated by law to do so.

[Chris Mowry]

The law that President Trump did. Well, hold on, hold on.

[Harry Sisson]

I would. I would want the DOJ without a law to release the files regardless, but they want the law under pass.

[Michael Knowles]

Can I interject? Maybe you can interject. The federal government right now is set up in a way that is unprecedented for modern American history, for all of modern American history. These Three letter agencies, the doj, the FBI, the cdc, they have been largely independent from the presidency, shielded from political pressure. Donald Trump ran on the idea of unitary executive theory outlined in Project 2025. The idea, it's true.

[Chris Mowry]

The idea unitary executive goes a little further back than Project 2025.

[Michael Knowles]

No, of course, of course. It's been a theory forever. But conservatives have been arguing, conservatives have been arguing that the President should have sole control over these agencies. For decades, Donald Trump, on his first day in office signed schedule F, giving him the ability for the first time ever to mass fire civil servants at these three letter agencies. That's never been done.

[Chris Mowry]

Not for the first time ever. Okay. I mean, the civil services existed for.

[Michael Knowles]

A long time, of course, but the idea that he could, without any reasoning, whoever he wishes at these agencies, he has reasoning and filled. Hold on. And fill these agencies with loyalists. Now, the DOJ does whatever Donald Trump wants him to do. And so if the doj, they just.

[Chris Mowry]

Released all those documents. But you said that Trump didn't want him to release.

[Michael Knowles]

They released all the documents after he needed a political officer.

[Chris Mowry]

So the DOJ doesn't.

[Harry Sisson]

Wait, wait, wait.

[Chris Mowry]

Hold on, hold on. The DOJ does what Congress wants them to do, or the DOJ does what Donald Trump wants them to do.

[Michael Knowles]

Congress is useless because it's a bunch of.

[Chris Mowry]

But I thought you said it was only. The documents were only released because of Congress, not because of Trump.

[Michael Knowles]

Hold on.

[Chris Mowry]

But then you said that. No.

[Michael Knowles]

No, no, no, no, no. They were forced by the law because Trump and all his Republicans friends in Congress who listen to whatever he says needed a political off ramp. He's getting killed on this issue because he said, I'm going to release the files on day one. He can do whatever he wants. He can force his DOJ to release all the files. Then Pam Bondi says, I have the files on my desk. Then the files don't exist. Then the whole thing's a hoax and we want to stop talking about it. But for weeks it was, oh, we don't want to release these files. The files don't exist. They may exist and politically he's getting murdered on this issue. So his friends in Congress passed a law and he's forced, he's forced at that point.

[Chris Mowry]

So the problem with Trump is that he didn't release all the files. And he did release all the files.

[Michael Knowles]

I think the problem.

[Harry Sisson]

I don't know.

[Michael Knowles]

I think the problem. I think the problem is the question of the question to the person over there who asked. Biden had these Files for four years. It's just that is a gross misunderstanding of how the American government works. The Department of Justice was largely independent from the presidency through all of modern American history up until right now. So Joe Biden and Kamala Harris were not going to hyper politicize.

[Chris Mowry]

You think the DOJ was independent and not politicized. Correct. Spying on Catholic churches under Joe Biden.

[Michael Knowles]

That's it.

[Chris Mowry]

You think it was not actually. You think the DOJ was independent of Barack Obama when they were suing nuns for not performing abortions?

[Michael Knowles]

Actually, yes. And to that person's point. Well.

[Chris Mowry]

And we got to clear out the doj. I'm glad Trump did that.

[Michael Knowles]

No, no, to the. No, no person's point. It's like they're almost there. They say, oh, if Joe Biden had the file, if the DOJ was hyper politicized, they threw all these charges on Trump. Then you know, he didn't release the files because he didn't care. It's like, you're almost there. Actually, the DOJ indicted Trump. Not for political reasons, because Donald Trump committed crimes. The DOJ went after the groups you're referring to because there is right wing extremism in the United States. It's one of the largest domestic terror issues of our time.

[Chris Mowry]

What was that crime that Trump committed?

[Michael Knowles]

These are just Donald Trump. Donald Trump falsified business records in the first degree.

[Chris Mowry]

Well, that was the case in New York.

[Michael Knowles]

You're talking about classified documents case. The intent was completely different. The intent was completely different. Who the hell is this guy? Who the hell is this?

[Harry Sisson]

Who the hell is this guy?

[Chris Mowry]

Sweet Harry, you've been talking about scandals, about obfuscation.

[Michael Knowles]

Oh, yeah, I knew we called it.

[Chris Mowry]

Good fighting and cover ups.

[Harry Sisson]

Nice.

[Chris Mowry]

Brother in Christ, brother in Moloch. We didn't have a president for four years and you covered it up. How is that not worse?

[Harry Sisson]

You didn't go the direction we thought you were going.

[Michael Knowles]

Why?

[Chris Mowry]

So where'd you think he was going to go? We had a man in severe cognitive.

[Michael Knowles]

Decline for four years. Yeah.

[Chris Mowry]

Not running the country. Talk about the DOJ is independent. Because it was.

[Harry Sisson]

Yeah.

[Chris Mowry]

Because there was no head of state. How is that not worse?

[Harry Sisson]

Okay. Are you done? Yeah. No. It's hard to make that argument when Joe Biden. And you're gonna hate this. Joe Biden was one of the most productive presidents in modern American history.

[Michael Knowles]

Hey, hey.

[Chris Mowry]

Go ahead, go ahead, go ahead.

[Michael Knowles]

Absolutely, Absolutely.

[Harry Sisson]

I want to talk to you right there. You.

[Chris Mowry]

I'm gonna sit back.

[Michael Knowles]

Go to the side too.

[Harry Sisson]

I bet.

[Chris Mowry]

I Bet you.

[Michael Knowles]

And I'm gonna let you start. You and I could go back and forth on legislation.

[Harry Sisson]

We could. We go bar for bar.

[Michael Knowles]

I. I just want to. Hold on, hold on. Before Harry goes, I do want to point out, Joe, regardless of if you hated every piece of legislation that was signed into law under Joe Biden. Hold on. Joe Biden signed more fiscal legislation into law.

[Chris Mowry]

Hold on. Did he sign it?

[Michael Knowles]

Hold on. Can I finish? Can I finish? Can I. I want to point something out.

[Harry Sisson]

Can I. Can I get.

[Michael Knowles]

I'm not actually more fiscal legislation into law than any president in the last 70 years up to this point. Donald Trump, who many of you voted for this huge mandate. He has better lines in Congress. Republicans control the House. Republicans control the Senate. Republicans control the presidency. Up to this point. Donald Trump has passed less legislation than any president in 70 years. In 70 years. Absolutely true.

[Chris Mowry]

Hold on. So I just to clarify, this is sort of a new. I wish this were its own debate I submitted. Joe Biden is the most productive president.

[Harry Sisson]

Yes.

[Chris Mowry]

In recent America.

[Michael Knowles]

That is true. That all the way.

[Harry Sisson]

By the way. By the way, Donald Trump is taking credit for some of Biden's policies. So everybody's, like, booing it. Like he's taking credit. You're cheering for it then.

[Michael Knowles]

Can anybody name a piece of legislation Donald Trump passed in his first or second term?

[Chris Mowry]

I want hearing this point.

[Harry Sisson]

Who said that?

[Michael Knowles]

We'll talk about this guy.

[Harry Sisson]

Defending.

[Chris Mowry]

Defending the incredible efficacy of the Democratic legislature is not a defense of the.

[Michael Knowles]

Really?

[Harry Sisson]

So when Joe Biden passed the largest infrastructure bill in American history that rebuilt roads and bridges and removed every single. Wait, be quiet, please. Removed every single lead pipe in American. In America. So everybody has clean drinking water. Just to be. Everybody is against lead pipe removal. Everybody. No, no. All right. Excuse me. I let. Michael says he wants to hear me. You listen to him.

[Chris Mowry]

It's too good to miss.

[Harry Sisson]

Yeah, exactly. When Joe Biden passed the PACT act, which invested in health care for veterans who were exposed to toxic burn pits abroad, who's against that? Anyone?

[Michael Knowles]

Okay, right.

[Harry Sisson]

So nobody's against him.

[Chris Mowry]

Who loves the candy? What about candy? And public.

[Harry Sisson]

When Joe Biden passed the Chips and Science act to invest in these little chips we have on our phones and these microphones, everything you're looking at to make them here in America, not abroad. Anybody against that?

[Michael Knowles]

That wasn't an executive order. It was a bill. It came from Congress.

[Harry Sisson]

Wait, be quiet, be quiet.

[Michael Knowles]

What?

[Harry Sisson]

When do they do that?

[Chris Mowry]

He's saying intel laid off 18% of the workforce right after that. Act passed.

[Harry Sisson]

And has that Harry, has that tre continued or slowed or. Or gotten better? Has that trend continued or gotten better?

[Chris Mowry]

The company, you know, it's only going to get better.

[Harry Sisson]

And the economy continues to get worse under Donald Trump. You're looking talking about mass layoffs.

[Chris Mowry]

Look at Donald Trump at all time. Stock market highs. You're talking about.

[Harry Sisson]

Donald Trump how manufacturing being eradicated on day one.

[Chris Mowry]

Manufacturing confidence is going up.

[Michael Knowles]

Manufacturing. We've lost manufacturing jobs for 14 straight months under Donald J. Trump.

[Chris Mowry]

It's hard to rebuild manufacturing after 50 years of D. Joe Bide did it.

[Harry Sisson]

He created 800, 800,000 manufacturing jobs in his four years.

[Chris Mowry]

Yeah. The thing is when you shut an entire economy down artificially, who was president? Restarted.

[Harry Sisson]

Who was president?

[Chris Mowry]

It was unfortunately. Unfortunately, President Trump allowed. Unfortunately, President Trump allowed the Democrat governors to destroy the economy. That's true.

[Harry Sisson]

Okay, sorry. Right. So Democrats somehow.

[Michael Knowles]

Hold on, hold on.

[Chris Mowry]

Is Donald Trump Republican states.

[Harry Sisson]

Can we just point out though that I just named three of Biden's biggest policies. Not a single person in this room, except that dude with the weird hat back there objected to the policies.

[Chris Mowry]

You all like it because you know the easy policies.

[Michael Knowles]

Wait, so what.

[Chris Mowry]

Wait, wait, wait.

[Harry Sisson]

Hold on.

[Chris Mowry]

Let's protect our. These are 2011.

[Harry Sisson]

These are not easy policies to get done. Donald Trump said it was infrastructure week. His entire first term. He didn't get in any infrastructure bill passed.

[Chris Mowry]

The. The, the razor thin Republican majority in the House does make it tough.

[Harry Sisson]

Joe Biden had a smaller majority.

[Chris Mowry]

The executive orders have been excellent. And as Joe Biden had a smaller.

[Harry Sisson]

Majority and he got it done.

[Chris Mowry]

He.

[Harry Sisson]

Joe Biden had a smaller majority and got it done.

[Chris Mowry]

But Donald Trump, the Democrats are in lockstep and the Republicans are like.

[Harry Sisson]

Republicans voted for it.

[Michael Knowles]

All of these are bipartisan.

[Chris Mowry]

Voted for it.

[Harry Sisson]

So are you against any of those. Are you against any of those bills?

[Michael Knowles]

Yeah.

[Harry Sisson]

Why?

[Chris Mowry]

Because the infrastructure bill had a ton of pork in it.

[Harry Sisson]

What pork? What pork?

[Chris Mowry]

What you're talking about like individual bridge projects.

[Michael Knowles]

Yeah.

[Harry Sisson]

People being able to drive is a pretty good name.

[Chris Mowry]

Not only with the infrastructure bill. Not only the infrastructure bill and the inflation reduction Act. The problem with those bills is that they passed a lot of nonsense spending that damaged the economy brought what specific damage?

[Harry Sisson]

The economy? What specifically?

[Chris Mowry]

It increased inflation to 9% under 2000.

[Harry Sisson]

What's the connection? Connection? Where's the. Where's the. The tie?

[Chris Mowry]

Even Bernie Sanders admitted that the inflation reduction.

[Harry Sisson]

So you don't like Bernie Sanders. What is the connection?

[Chris Mowry]

I agree with him here because he agrees with the Republicans.

[Michael Knowles]

So when.

[Harry Sisson]

All the years.

[Chris Mowry]

I'll Give it Economics 101. Sure. When you spend a bunch of money on nonsense.

[Harry Sisson]

Over a ten year period. Over a ten year period.

[Michael Knowles]

But I don't know.

[Harry Sisson]

But Donald Trump has spent a bunch of money. Donald Trump spent more money than Joe Biden did.

[Chris Mowry]

Under which law?

[Harry Sisson]

Under his entire term.

[Chris Mowry]

Hold on. But which law?

[Harry Sisson]

His first four years. His first four years.

[Chris Mowry]

Four years. Because your previous say, criticizing Trump for not doing anything, but then when it was convenient for you, you criticized him.

[Harry Sisson]

For doing a lot of things. When we. When you have the tax cuts, when you reduce revenue, you spend more money, there's more debt. Right. So under Donald Trump's first four years, he spent more than Joe Biden did in his four years.

[Chris Mowry]

Because of the. You're talking about because of the lockdowns or because of the tax cuts?

[Harry Sisson]

Spending. Tax cuts. Cut spending.

[Chris Mowry]

He cut taxes for people and that is spending tax cuts for wealthy people.

[Harry Sisson]

I don't think there's any billionaires in the crowd. Mark.

[Chris Mowry]

Hey, Michael, long time. What's going on, man? I'm glad to see you. First time caller. Yeah. First of all, I want to say, Chris and Harry, thank you for coming here. Like it genuinely.

[Michael Knowles]

Thank you, man.

[Chris Mowry]

To face people that, you know, disagree with you and some may hate you, that really takes balls. Speaking of balls, the first lady of France. No, I'm kidding.

[Michael Knowles]

I'm kidding.

[Chris Mowry]

Good night, everybody. I, I do have an actual, like, substitute question. You talk a lot about subverting democracy and the will of the people, but you endorsed a candidate who was nominated to be president without a single vote cast. Wait, that's. Wait, wait, wait, wait. How is that not subversion?

[Harry Sisson]

I don't know.

[Michael Knowles]

Can I respond? Yeah, well, a couple of things here. Who, first of all, with Joe. With Joe Biden, With Joe Biden dropping out. There is nobody else at that point in time. The moment Kamala Harris announces that she's going to run for president. President. There is nobody whose primary is Kamala Harris. People say, why was there not an open primary? Why didn't we get to vote? Because nobody ran against her. Everybody immediately got their, you know, threw their support. All Democrats through the support behind Kamala Harris. Joe Biden threw support behind Kamala Harris. And again, we actually did vote. We technically. Well, the delegate process wasn't in Chicago. But to make it simple, we as, as registered Democrats got to vote for delegates who then went to Chicago. And every single delegate voted for Kamala Harris to be the nominee. So that's not subverting democracy. That'. Absurd. If Democrats wanted a primary process, then somebody has to primary Kamala Harris. Nobody primary Kamala Harris.

[Chris Mowry]

Why not? Because she was just such a great candidate.

[Michael Knowles]

She was a good candidate. Wait, wait, wait, wait, wait. She was. I think, to Harry's point, the Biden Harris administration was incredibly productive. They did a lot of good things. Yeah. That's just wrong. That's just. Y' all can do all you want.

[Harry Sisson]

It's wrong again.

[Michael Knowles]

Again. Passed more. Pass more fiscal legislation than any administration in seven decades. They showed for the first time in a long time that with bipartisan support, you can get things done.

[Chris Mowry]

So, yes, Kamal Harris was a very strong bipartisan support. You can make eggs cost $11.

[Harry Sisson]

What did Joe Biden do?

[Michael Knowles]

Yeah, two things.

[Harry Sisson]

What did Joe Biden do to cause that?

[Chris Mowry]

You guys talk a lot about the Greece, inflation.

[Michael Knowles]

Wait, wait, wait, hold on.

[Chris Mowry]

Because you talk about. Oh, we could vote on delegates. The DNC and the RNC for that matter, are private clubs.

[Michael Knowles]

Yeah.

[Chris Mowry]

So they can make the rules. They can do whatever they want. And there is no actual democracy in those private clubs. They can pick whoever they want. They can change the rules to be like, oh, if Joe Biden falls down the stairs, then, you know, Hillary Clinton is automatically the nominee. She would push him. I agree, Michael, but it's not really a democratic process.

[Michael Knowles]

Wait, but I don't understand that. I. And what's the. Then what's the question? Like, you say we talk about.

[Harry Sisson]

You guys are so.

[Michael Knowles]

Hold on. Because. Because we're talking about subverting democracy. I. I mean, Donald Trump lost an election.

[Harry Sisson]

Knew.

[Michael Knowles]

He lost an election. Spent. Spent months perpetrating the lie that he won the 2020 election. Hold on.

[Harry Sisson]

He went.

[Chris Mowry]

Yeah, he lost.

[Harry Sisson]

Stolen.

[Michael Knowles]

Hold on, hold on, hold on. We're going to. Hold on. We're going to.

[Harry Sisson]

You're an idiot.

[Michael Knowles]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. We're going to. We're going to come back to that. But again, Donald. Donald Trump. Donald Trump spent months perpetrating a lie that he won the 2020 election when all of his advisors told him that he lost. He still believes he lost a 2020 election. He's. We're witnessing the largest expansion of executive authority in our entire lifetimes. Okay? Donald Trump is interested in nothing but power. I don't understand.

[Chris Mowry]

How is he expanded.

[Michael Knowles]

Wait, wait, wait. But to this person's point, I don't understand how that relates to, like, because.

[Chris Mowry]

You could say he's saying that you guys say you're such lowercase D Democrats and power to the people and More involvement for more people is good. And you don't even want voter id. You want that many people to be involved, and you don't want to discourage anyone. And yet then out of the other side of your mouth, you say, no, it's great. These parties are private clubs, and if they just pick the nominee, that's fine.

[Harry Sisson]

I don't think we've ever said it's great, right? Like, they make great.

[Chris Mowry]

You're defending. That was. I think that was.

[Michael Knowles]

No, no, no, no, no, no. What I was defending is that people say, why was there not a primary? And I just say there literally can't be a primary when there's nobody else running. If Democrats want a primary, someone else has to run. Kamala Harris was.

[Chris Mowry]

She was just too good. She was just too good.

[Harry Sisson]

Okay.

[Michael Knowles]

I mean, it's true.

[Chris Mowry]

The question. Who wins the VIP round? Who gets to go to the table? I hear number one. I hear number two. Mr. Davies. I can't. I don't. At the mic.

[Michael Knowles]

Who.

[Chris Mowry]

Who was it?

[Michael Knowles]

Who votes for first?

[Chris Mowry]

Who votes for two? Who says it was. Who says it was Mark? I don't know. Who do we say?

[Harry Sisson]

Mark.

[Michael Knowles]

Say Mark.

[Harry Sisson]

One.

[Michael Knowles]

All right, hold on.

[Chris Mowry]

Can we. Can we recap?

[Michael Knowles]

Can we do a recount of the votes?

[Chris Mowry]

Yeah.

[Harry Sisson]

Can we get their recount?

[Chris Mowry]

This is some Bush v. Gore stuff, lady.

[Michael Knowles]

Hanging chat over here.

[Chris Mowry]

So this is very exciting. You are going to be drinking Redneck Riviera bourbon. We're all having our drinks up here. But you know what you have to have first. It's called ZBiotics. You got to go to ZBiotics.com bar fight. Go there right now. After a night with drinks. You know, I'm an old man now. I'm not as young as these two fellas. I don't bounce back the way I used to. I have to make a choice. I can either have a great night or a great next day. That is, until I found ZBiotics pre alcohol. ZBiotics pre alcohol probiotic Drink is the world's first genetically engineered probiotic. It was invented by PhD scientists, not those fake scientists like Dr. Jill Biden. This is how you can tackle rough mornings after drinking. Here's how it works. When you drink alcohol, it gets converted into a toxic byproduct in your gut. Now, the buildup of this byproduct, not dehydration, is actually what is to blame for those rough days after drinking, which I had no idea about until I looked into the pre alcohol product. Pre alcohol produces this enzyme to break the Byproduct down. So you're actually addressing the root cause now. Just remember to make pre alcohol your first drink of the night. Or my third. I guess in this case, drink responsibly. You will feel your best tomorrow. I love it. I love it so much. I don't know if you guys are gonna attempt. Very well sealed cheers.

[Michael Knowles]

It's well sealed.

[Chris Mowry]

Cheers.

[Michael Knowles]

We're attempting.

[Harry Sisson]

There you go.

[Chris Mowry]

Delicious. Are you ready to try it? Go to zbiotics.com barfight right now. You will get 15 off your first order when you go to bar fight code Bar fight at checkout. It's backed by a 100 money back guarantee. There's no risk. Subscriptions are available for maximum consistency. ZBiotics. This is the longest ad ever. ZBiotics.com/fight code bar fight at checkout for 15% off. It is time for round two. We tried our best.

[Michael Knowles]

I actually like these things. Oh, you can just twist it.

[Chris Mowry]

Oh, all right.

[Michael Knowles]

Mike. No, we're late tomorrow.

[Chris Mowry]

You're slamming it. Cheers.

[Michael Knowles]

Cheers.

[Chris Mowry]

Chin chin.

[Michael Knowles]

Nice.

[Chris Mowry]

I poisoned it. No, I didn't. Wouldn't that be crazy if I did not? Okay, Chris, what's your topic?

[Michael Knowles]

My topic is Trump's ICE raids. Respect. No limits. No limits. No limits.

[Chris Mowry]

Okay, what's your argument?

[Michael Knowles]

Look, my argument is this. Donald Trump, especially with again, the expansion of executive authority. We have seen there are mass agents running around our communities to obviously the dismay of the American people for political gain. Okay. These people at ice, the actual individuals within ICE themselves are not qualified to be ICE agents. A lot of them are being hired with few little oversight. I should, I should say, Pam, the organization itself, lowering the requirements for ICE agents. They're running ads targeting people who show up at specific bars who are interested in certain conservatives ideals. They're hiring people who are.

[Chris Mowry]

We gotta get on the list for this show. I think we gotta get some Ice Ages.

[Michael Knowles]

They're hiring people who are pro Trump, who are very conservative and they can frankly do whatever they want. They have the backing of the federal government. We saw two US citizens executed in broad daylight on video. And though the DOJ was not interested in investigating those cases, Donald Trump backing it up and saying, I love it. There's no limits here, Michael.

[Chris Mowry]

Okay, one, there are no investigations into the officer involved killing, say Renee Good. There's no federal investigations.

[Michael Knowles]

No. I think if we're being good faith, there is no investigation. Immediately after what happened with Alex Brady, the DOJ came out and they said immediately. Pam Bondi said, this guy's a domestic terrorist. The administration. J.D. vance said he's a domestic terrorist. He was there to do all this horrible stuff. It's pretty clear they immediately laid the groundwork for we don't need to investigate this. And as far as I'm aware, it's.

[Chris Mowry]

Like a very factual question. Are there investigations?

[Michael Knowles]

I am not aware of the DOJ currently investigating this shooting. Shooting. The actual officer himself involved in Alex Predator shooting.

[Chris Mowry]

What about Renee Good? There are investigations.

[Michael Knowles]

I think. I think. I think that the doj. My understanding is that the DOJ is more interested in investigating what happened as opposed to potential wrongdoing. They're more interested in investigating if Renee Good is a criminal.

[Harry Sisson]

People resigned from the civil Rights division of the Department of justice, like eight or 10 prosecutors, because the specific division that's used to investigate police shootings said that they were not investigated.

[Michael Knowles]

Yeah.

[Chris Mowry]

I would say that as many people as can resign from those civil rights offices is probably for the better because Michael knows everybody. It often is liberalized.

[Harry Sisson]

You're discriminating against.

[Michael Knowles]

Do you have any evidence of that?

[Chris Mowry]

That the civil rights offices are. Yeah. Well, here's some evidence. And this actually does relate to another recent case, which is that on the topic of, like, the Face act, which is a version of a civil rights law, it's only ever applied to protect abortion clinics and virtually never tried to protect churches. Wait, including the church that was at issue in Minnesota.

[Michael Knowles]

Wait, wait. But that's not. Your claim, is that there's like this almost.

[Chris Mowry]

My claim is that the civil rights regime tends to only track left and doesn't actually protect the rights of people on the right. That's my claim. However, that's a slightly side point. The chief topic you're making or the chief claim you're making, is that Trump's ICE respects no limits.

[Michael Knowles]

How about the differences between how ICE operates in red states versus blue states? In red states, the majority of people that ICE picks up are already in prison, have already been arrested.

[Chris Mowry]

The majority is that.

[Michael Knowles]

Hold on. No, no, no, no, no, no, no.

[Chris Mowry]

Is it because in the blue states, the governors and the mayors will not cooperate with ICE to hand over the criminal illegal aliens?

[Michael Knowles]

No.

[Harry Sisson]

You don't care about. You don't care about crime. You don't care about crime.

[Chris Mowry]

I do care about crime.

[Harry Sisson]

You don't. You voted for a convicted felon.

[Chris Mowry]

Yeah. I care about the real criminals.

[Harry Sisson]

That's a real crime. It went to a jury. He got convicted falsifying business records in the first degree. He was also indicted in three other jurisdictions.

[Chris Mowry]

What's the penalty.

[Harry Sisson]

Well, he didn't get a penalty because he got elected president.

[Chris Mowry]

Hold on.

[Michael Knowles]

And.

[Chris Mowry]

Well, the civil. Who. What's the civil penalty for that?

[Harry Sisson]

What do you mean? It was a criminal case.

[Chris Mowry]

In the. In the case of falsifying business records, there was. There was a penalty to be paid. Which had a dollar number on it.

[Harry Sisson]

Oh, yeah. I mean, there's a fine or possible jail time, but they didn't get any of that.

[Chris Mowry]

And why, even before he was elected president, why would the penalty have been reduced by the judge?

[Harry Sisson]

Why would the penalty have been reduced?

[Chris Mowry]

Because, I mean, it was expensive and it was obviously.

[Harry Sisson]

No, it depends on a variety of factors. If he's a repeat. Repeat offender, for example, that's why they might reduce or increase a penalty. But Donald Trump. The reason that Donald Trump is not sitting. And they're gonna hate this one as well. The reason that Donald Trump is not sitting in prison right now is because he got elected President of the United States. That's the truth.

[Chris Mowry]

I mean, in the case of the. We're getting a little far afield here. Sorry, I'll get you. In case of the falsifying business records. It is interesting that a judge actually weighed in and said this is an excessive penalty for what's basically a bogus crime.

[Harry Sisson]

No, the judge.

[Chris Mowry]

But that's a side point. We'll get back to you.

[Michael Knowles]

So, yeah, back to this point. Again, they're clearly operating. Can you name me. Instances? I mean, we're clearly seeing the majority of ICE agents in these blue states.

[Harry Sisson]

States.

[Michael Knowles]

It's clearly for political gain. I mean, Donald Trump is sending ICE agents into places like Minnesota, which is historically close to the southern border.

[Harry Sisson]

That's right there, isn't it?

[Michael Knowles]

And furthermore, furthermore, hold on just to the.

[Chris Mowry]

These blue states. And these blue cities are openly declaring themselves sanctuary cities and states. They are saying, we want illegal aliens to come here. And you're shocked that the border Patrol and ICE will go in and say when maybe we'll arrest those illegal aliens where they say that they are.

[Michael Knowles]

Wait, wait, so you believe that the role of the federal government.

[Chris Mowry]

Government is to enforce federal immigration law?

[Michael Knowles]

Yes. Wait, even against the will. Even against the will of states and.

[Chris Mowry]

Against the will of its federal law. Even if it's supremacy clause in our Constitution.

[Michael Knowles]

I also want to point out that, like, again, this actually goes back to the premise, the idea that you for some reason believe that illegal immigration and Donald Trump believes that illegal immigration is this massive problem that requires like 20 million of them. No, first of all, first of all, there's not 20 million. There's 10. There was a maximum of 10 million border encounters under Joe Biden. Obviously, if Border Patrol encounters somebody.

[Chris Mowry]

Illegal immigration. Illegal immigration. I mean, that is a shocking number. But illegal immigration actually predates Joe Biden, believe it or not. It actually goes back a few more decades.

[Michael Knowles]

Hold on. But my point being, My point being here is that why are we demonizing these communities and demonizing.

[Chris Mowry]

Because they're criminals and they have no right to be here.

[Harry Sisson]

You voted for a criminal. You can't get away from it.

[Michael Knowles]

Hold on. Besides the fact. Besides the fact that they enter the United States illegally, why do you not. Why do you think that this is such a big problem that Donald Trump needs to be sending federal agents into cities? Yes. Militarizing our cities.

[Chris Mowry]

Because many decades ago, the United States Congress passed a law.

[Michael Knowles]

Okay, about.

[Chris Mowry]

Hold on. Let me just answer your question. You say, why do I care that people are violating our basic laws and coming into our country and committing crimes and using our resources?

[Michael Knowles]

No, no, no.

[Chris Mowry]

That's what you're asking. That's what they're saying. So my answer is because many moons ago, the American people elected legislators to Congress, and Congress passed laws about our immigration system. And they said, some people can come in, some people can't stay here. There's a way to come in, and there's a federal law. That's how our democracy is supposed to function. Because of that, people elected Donald Trump with the popular vote in 2024 specifically to deport the illegal aliens who are here. Both parties agreed on this until very, very recently. Well, up through the Obama administration.

[Harry Sisson]

So you spoke up with.

[Chris Mowry]

So that's why I care.

[Harry Sisson]

Cause I want the long. When Kil Brago Garcia was illegally deported, which, by the way, the Trump administration admitted in court themselves, and the Supreme Court ruled 900. And the illegal alien, Peter got deported.

[Chris Mowry]

Shed a single tear.

[Michael Knowles]

Oh, wait, Michael.

[Harry Sisson]

So see, you pick and choose. And you care about federal law.

[Chris Mowry]

No, no. You got deported the under law, but.

[Harry Sisson]

It'S against federal law. The Supreme Court ruled against Donald Trump.

[Chris Mowry]

Was Kilmar Abrego Garcia an American citizen, a legal resident, or was he illegal alien?

[Harry Sisson]

You're. No, no, you're misinterpreting my point.

[Chris Mowry]

Simple question. You think you won't answer it, though?

[Harry Sisson]

Wait, what was your question?

[Chris Mowry]

Garcia an American citizen, or was he an illegal alien?

[Harry Sisson]

He was here legally.

[Chris Mowry]

He. Kilmar Rodrigo Garcia was not here legally.

[Michael Knowles]

Yes, he was.

[Chris Mowry]

He was not here.

[Michael Knowles]

He absolutely was.

[Chris Mowry]

He was.

[Harry Sisson]

Absolutely. He had humanitarian parole.

[Chris Mowry]

There we go.

[Harry Sisson]

Which is legal.

[Michael Knowles]

That's a. That's a wait. That's.

[Harry Sisson]

You can't claim to care about federal law. You can't claim to care about federal law while also endorsing Donald Trump ignoring a 9O Supreme Court rule ruling.

[Chris Mowry]

Yeah. I would say that when we have people who've entered this country illegally, whether they have a temporary protective status, whether they are on their path to becoming an American citizen, if they are people who are not good for our country, who have no legal right to be here permanently, we got to boot them out. Bring it back.

[Michael Knowles]

We'll bring it back, but.

[Mary Margaret]

Hey, guys, this is Mary Margaret. I'm Daily Wire's White House correspondent.

[Chris Mowry]

Oh, my dear. Wait, what? She said she's the Daily Wire White House correspondent.

[Harry Sisson]

Mary Margaret. Very nice.

[Mary Margaret]

All right, I have a 2028 question for you guys. Do we think that J.D. vance or Gavin Newsom has a better chance? And is Gavin Newsom telling the truth when he says that he doesn't really support men and women's sports?

[Harry Sisson]

That's a fascinating question.

[Michael Knowles]

That is a fascinating question.

[Chris Mowry]

Actually, we raised the caliber with Mary Martin. That's nice.

[Harry Sisson]

That's a great question. Well, look, you want to take it first? You want me to go.

[Michael Knowles]

Yeah, yeah. Let me start with the first question.

[Harry Sisson]

You got it.

[Michael Knowles]

Which was Gavin Newsom or J.D. vance? Okay. The Trump administration is historically unpopular. They are underwater in every single issue that got them elected. I know. Hold. It doesn't matter.

[Harry Sisson]

It doesn't matter. You're losing now, bro.

[Michael Knowles]

Because I know how we all feel about polls, right? But the polls that got him elected have flipped on their head. A CNN poll from October. Hold on. From October of 20. No, no, I know, I know. Hold on, hold on.

[Harry Sisson]

Don't cry.

[Chris Mowry]

Hold on.

[Michael Knowles]

A CNN poll. This is just one example. A CNN poll from. From October of 2024. From October 2024, Donald Trump was plus 11 on inflation in the economy. It's why he won the election. That same poll, right now, he's underwater 27 points. A Fox News poll showed that, like, 68% of Americans felt like ice was going too far in the things that they were doing. They're historically unpopular. JD Vance sucks. He doesn't believe in anything, okay? At least. No, no, he does. Hold on, hold on, hold on, hold on, hold on.

[Chris Mowry]

How many of you.

[Harry Sisson]

How many of you?

[Michael Knowles]

How many of you like Donald Trump in this room? Okay, okay, Pause, pause, pause. So in 2015, when J.D. vance said that Donald Trump was America's Hitler, that he was an awful guy, did he just stop believing that? What happened?

[Chris Mowry]

There he was.

[Harry Sisson]

Oh, don't make.

[Michael Knowles]

Don't make mistakes.

[Chris Mowry]

He was persuaded by evidence, like my friend Ben Shapiro. Ben Shapiro was very anti.

[Michael Knowles]

No, no, no, no, no, no, no. He wasn't persuaded by evidence. He lost all of his values and his morals because he got to be vice president states. And in the Republican Party. And in the Republican Party, you cannot be an elected official and not bow down to Donald Trump.

[Chris Mowry]

Are you accusing Ben Shapiro of losing his values and morals? Are you using Glenn Beck?

[Michael Knowles]

No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no.

[Chris Mowry]

That's because, you know, he's a political strong 20, 21.

[Michael Knowles]

Wait, no, no. That's a straw man. I'm just.

[Chris Mowry]

They all said the same things about Trump in 2016, and they all changed their mind.

[Michael Knowles]

Hold on. I've changed my views over time. I'm just. In this particular instance, J.D. vance obviously was the same.

[Chris Mowry]

You don't apply the same standard to Ben Shapiro.

[Michael Knowles]

I don't apply the same standard when J.D. vance could become vice president to the United States Political. No, no. His entire. His entire career. His entire career depends on him loving Donald Trump. Just like all these other Republican elected officials who hated Donald Trump previously, who. We know, they probably still hate him now, but they don't have a choice.

[Chris Mowry]

Why did the other never Trumpers change their minds?

[Michael Knowles]

Why did. What?

[Harry Sisson]

What?

[Michael Knowles]

Yeah, what never Trumpers changed their mind?

[Chris Mowry]

Shapiro, Glenn Beck.

[Michael Knowles]

Okay.

[Harry Sisson]

I would. Because he became the Republican nominee, they're going to vote for him no matter what.

[Chris Mowry]

So you think it was just. So now you're changing your opinion. Now you say they were just cynical.

[Harry Sisson]

They're liars.

[Michael Knowles]

No, no, no, no. I mean, I feel like you're trying to.

[Chris Mowry]

I'm just trying to clarify.

[Harry Sisson]

Trying.

[Chris Mowry]

You're trying a different standard to JD Vance than you are to everyone else.

[Michael Knowles]

Because I think that J.D. it's just a one unique person who's in a unique spot to be vice president, United States. Everybody else might have their different reasons.

[Chris Mowry]

I agree. You're nervous.

[Michael Knowles]

No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. Hold on, hold on, hold on. Has J.D. vance. Has J.D. vance ever explained what caused him to change his name?

[Chris Mowry]

Many times, yes.

[Michael Knowles]

I don't know. I've never heard a good answer for this.

[Chris Mowry]

President Trump's performance in office. Yeah.

[Michael Knowles]

I just want to point out. I just want to point out. I just want to point out we didn't go for from, oh, I don't love Donald Trump to I like him. He said, quote, donald Trump is America's Hitler. To apparently loving him so much he's now the Vice President.

[Chris Mowry]

Turns out he wasn't Hitler. It was actually pretty good. Harry, before we go, you had a point. You said you're not afraid of.

[Harry Sisson]

Oh, no, I'm not afraid of J.D. vance. And on her question, yeah, nobody should.

[Michael Knowles]

Be afraid of J.D.

[Harry Sisson]

Vance.

[Michael Knowles]

I mean, look at the guy.

[Chris Mowry]

You sound a little afraid, but you don't.

[Harry Sisson]

I'm not afraid of J.D. vance. I think Gavin Newsom has a better chance if you're just looking at it from a data standpoint. You can boo all you want. The data doesn't lie. If you're looking at it from a data standpoint, Gavin Newsom, I believe, has a better chance right now. And then what was your. The follow up? Was that it?

[Chris Mowry]

Whether. Whether it was going to be Newsome or Vance? Mary Margaret, what was the follow up?

[Harry Sisson]

Is that. Did we answer everything? Oh, women's sports.

[Michael Knowles]

Oh, yeah, that's right.

[Chris Mowry]

You think he's telling the truth?

[Harry Sisson]

Yeah, I think he's telling the truth.

[Chris Mowry]

So hold on. The truth about what?

[Harry Sisson]

I think she asked. You asked, does Gavin Newsom agree with men not playing in women's sports? Is that right?

[Mary Margaret]

It's not me.

[Harry Sisson]

Oh, it's not her. Oh, where is she? So, I'm so sorry. I'm so sorry.

[Mary Margaret]

I'm flattered that he thinks I marry Margaret.

[Chris Mowry]

So he says. Gavin Newsom now says men shouldn't be in women's sports. But he previously did not say that.

[Harry Sisson]

We were just talking about changing.

[Chris Mowry]

Do you think. Well, the question is, do you think that was a sincere change of heart or do you think it's.

[Harry Sisson]

I do think he's telling.

[Chris Mowry]

A cynical political capital calculator.

[Harry Sisson]

I do think he's telling.

[Chris Mowry]

Why did Gavin Newsom just a few weeks ago say he wants to see more trans kids?

[Harry Sisson]

I think. I mean, what was the context of what we said talking about?

[Chris Mowry]

He was at. I don't remember the specific.

[Harry Sisson]

So that's a big problem if you don't remember the context.

[Chris Mowry]

I think it speaks for itself. I want trans kids.

[Harry Sisson]

You know what probably the context is, is should more people feel comfortable coming out as who they are? Okay, he's probably saying, but they shouldn't.

[Chris Mowry]

Be able to play sports.

[Harry Sisson]

What do you mean?

[Chris Mowry]

Boo. Hold on. But, Harry. So they should come out as trans, and he wants to see more of that, but he just doesn't want to let them play sports.

[Harry Sisson]

Well, those are two different topics. I mean, they're just two different topics.

[Chris Mowry]

They're pretty related.

[Harry Sisson]

I would Say, no, they're not pretty related. They're two different topics and two different debates.

[Chris Mowry]

Here's my question.

[Harry Sisson]

Sure.

[Chris Mowry]

Building on Mary Margaret's question, Gavin, you believe Gavin Newsom is sincere when he flipped his opinion on transgenderism in sports and says that he no longer wants to see men and women's sports. But Gavin Newsom at the same time says he wants to see more trans kids. So therefore, we must conclude Gavin Newsom does not want the trans kids to be able to play sports.

[Harry Sisson]

Do you really think that Gavin Newsom wants trans kids to stay out of all sports? Like, you can't play soccer if you're trans. No, he doesn't believe that.

[Chris Mowry]

So then he does lying about changing his minimum.

[Harry Sisson]

You're saying that Gavin Newsom said that trans kids shouldn't play sports. Sports, period. Gavin, News. Well, don't throw under the bus. She's lovely.

[Chris Mowry]

That's what you agreed with, though.

[Harry Sisson]

No, no. Gavin Newsome is saying that trans people should play sports. But the role of trans men or trans women going into a different sport, of the sport that aligns with the gender that they've now chosen, that's where he takes issue.

[Chris Mowry]

But I do think you're going to say the trans women have to play in the. Women in the. In the.

[Harry Sisson]

I think Gavin Newsom holds a similar position to mine, which is, let's let these independent sporting agencies make the rules. I don't think the government should be involved, by the way, Michael, Sports.

[Michael Knowles]

Men and women.

[Harry Sisson]

Sports.

[Chris Mowry]

Carry. You can't have it. Wait, wait.

[Harry Sisson]

No, no, no. Gavin. Gavin Newsom's a governor. He's saying the government shouldn't legislate this. Right.

[Chris Mowry]

And so I would say he doesn't support. Can I.

[Harry Sisson]

Can I finish briefly? Gavin Newsom is saying he doesn't want the government involved in this part. Party. A small government over here now wants the government everywhere.

[Chris Mowry]

I like appropriate government.

[Harry Sisson]

Well, no. You advocate for small government. Now you want bigger.

[Chris Mowry]

I don't advocate.

[Harry Sisson]

Oh, you don't? You want big government.

[Chris Mowry]

I know I advocate.

[Harry Sisson]

Okay, so, yes. Okay. Anyway, Gavin Newsom is taking the position.

[Michael Knowles]

All right. Wow.

[Chris Mowry]

Enough. Enough torment for Harry. No, you're right. You're right. We got to go back to the mic question.

[Mary Margaret]

All right. Hello, Michael. I'd like to engage in a little bit of a friendly spiritual tet. A tet with you. I have. I'll admittedly say that I skimmed your article about Christian Zionism, and I've heard your comments about Israel.

[Harry Sisson]

Yeah.

[Mary Margaret]

And as a Protestant, I have slightly different views Toward the state of Israel and the Jewish. Well, not Jewish people. The Israeli people.

[Chris Mowry]

I like the Israeli people. I think we might share that view.

[Mary Margaret]

How do you reconcile this? Anti Christian Zionism might be an extreme way to put it with the biblical truth that we are grafted onto as Christians, the Jewish faith essentially, and the fact that Jews have had had Israel as their ancestral homeland for thousands of years. And can you acknowledge that the. Again, anti Israel seems very extreme, but that's the phrase I'm gonna use. Rhetoric that's starting to come from the right has contributed to the rise in antisemitism in recent months, recent years.

[Chris Mowry]

Well, and the last point, I think it can coincide. Anti Israel and anti Semitic sentiment can coincide. Not necessarily so, but it can. So that's true. I don't know that one is the cause of the other. Probably the cause would go more likely in the other direction. When it comes to ancestral claims from indigeneity. The reason that I reject that is really more an historical and political opinion. It's because I don't think that just because a people was in a place a long time ago, it means they have a right to it. Now. If that were the case, we would have to give the Mount Rushmore back to the Lakota Sioux, which is arguments that maybe some of my liberal friends would make them. Maybe not a lot of people on the left do. But I reject that. I don't really think that's a basis for international law. So I reject it as that matter. Of course, to the point on Christian Zionism specifically, that is a religious position. That's a relatively modern one. It really comes from the 19th century. It's a specific subset of Protestantism. Obviously I'm not a Protestant, I'm a Catholic. I'm a mackerel snapper. Many Protestants don't hold that view either. But that's a specific view that argues that because God gave the land to the Jews in antiquity, they have a divine right to it. Now this is contrary to the traditional Christian perspective shared by Catholics and Eastern Orthodox and some mainline Protestants, which holds that the church is the spiritual Israel is the new Israel. And so we like the Jews, they're great, you know, they're wonderful and we all want to follow God. However, the specific land claims that are figured in the Old Testament are really fulfilled in the New Testament, so we don't focus on those specific land claims. Then there's an added problem which is the issue of Zionism, which begins as a secular ideology. Though it's difficult to separate the Religious from the secular when it comes to the Jewish people, because they're a tribe. But the origins of Zionism really are secular and it arises with nationalism, like in the revolutions of the 1840s and the ideology that is really a 19th century ideology that I find a little bit modern. I don't believe that the only proper form of political order is a nation state. I think empires have a lot to recommend them. And so for all of those reasons, I guess I would say I reject every single aspect of what undergirds Christian Zionism. But I'm very philo Semitic and I'm generally pro Israel, so I'm actually in the worst position of anybody. I seem to be taking the bullets from all sides here. But that's why this view, which is prevalent among American evangelicals, has predominated in recent decades. But it's really not the historic view of Christians and it's not the majority view of Christians worldwide. And so I would make one prudential argument to people who support the state of Israel, which is it probably would behoove the them to give people an opportunity to support the state of Israel for practical reasons, reasons of international law, reasons of alliances that do not require them to adopt a novel theological view. That's really a minority view. I think probably practically that is much better for even the state of Israel. In the end. That was a little off topic for. What do you guys think? About time. Hey, that's all you, brother. Come on.

[Michael Knowles]

Hello.

[Harry Sisson]

My question is for Harry Siston. I'm a huge fan of you. I actually follow your Twitter pretty accurately. Exactly. And I just wanna go back to the ICE topic that we were on a bit earlier because Harry Sisson has some interesting tweets about Alex Preddy specifically accusing him of. Sorry, I wanna apologize.

[Michael Knowles]

He accuses directly Nick Shirley of being responsible for the death of Alex Preddy.

[Harry Sisson]

And Renee Goode for his reporting on Minnesota. And so then, you know, I just.

[Michael Knowles]

Want to be super clear here that.

[Harry Sisson]

Once again, Harry Sisson has lied repeatedly about ice. He said that he was. Fanny Good.

[Michael Knowles]

Said that she was a.

[Harry Sisson]

Right after he shot her. That actually was another ICE officer.

[Michael Knowles]

Completely different ICE officer. Oh, so, so much better.

[Harry Sisson]

Wait.

[Michael Knowles]

Oh, yeah. To watch her colleague execute somebody live on camera and be like, wow.

[Harry Sisson]

My question is for Harry. When an ICE officer gets killed because of your lies and your rhetoric, are you going to feel bad? Are you going to have issues sleeping.

[Michael Knowles]

At night like you accused Nick Shirley of being. That is absurd.

[Harry Sisson]

That was a. That was a really. I think that was a really bad question. Like, genuinely. I think that was a bad question. So Chris actually tweeted something similar as well. Because you don't want to answer it.

[Chris Mowry]

Yeah, that's a bad question. But he said it too.

[Harry Sisson]

But we both agree on it. We both agree. And I'll stand by this. That Nick Shirley, his lies about fraud in Minnesota. Minnesota caused a surgeons of federal agents into the state. And if that surgeon to federal agents into the state never happened and he never lied about these learning centers, these child daycare centers, you're saying that we wouldn't be in a position.

[Michael Knowles]

No, that's not what he said. No, no, no.

[Chris Mowry]

But hold on.

[Michael Knowles]

Well, hold on.

[Harry Sisson]

What's your click? I'm responding directly. So if that never happened. Whatever. If that never happened, those people, Renee Good and Alex Preddy would still be alive today. 100%. And they were murdered in broad daylight. And anybody. I think everybody in this room should be able to look at Alex Pretty Freddy who didn't take out a gun. He was tackled by ACE8 ICE agents.

[Michael Knowles]

Are you anti second amendment now?

[Harry Sisson]

Hold on, wait.

[Chris Mowry]

So.

[Michael Knowles]

So wait, wait. So you should be executed for just having a gun? Even if it's wholesome.

[Harry Sisson]

He was legally carrying it. He had a permit to carry.

[Michael Knowles]

He's not threat. So wait.

[Harry Sisson]

Hold on. He had a legal permit to carry. He never took out the gun. So wait, what do you mean so? He wasn't a threat to anybody. He wasn't a. He wasn't a threat to anybody.

[Michael Knowles]

How come you're not.

[Harry Sisson]

He wasn't a threat to anybody. He was tackled by eight ICE agents on the ground and then shot in the back of the head nine times.

[Chris Mowry]

Hold on. Harry. Harry, what are you talking about?

[Harry Sisson]

What are you talking about?

[Chris Mowry]

Harry, you just said that Renee, I don't hear from you from the vip. Hold on, wait one second.

[Harry Sisson]

Mark.

[Chris Mowry]

You just said. You just said, Harry, that Renee Good was murdered.

[Harry Sisson]

Yes.

[Chris Mowry]

By an ICE officer. Yeah. Do you not think that being hit by an SUV is a justification for using deadly.

[Harry Sisson]

If you're looking at the footage frame by frame, and I saw you get walked by Adam Mockler on this. Can you be quiet? Oh, my God.

[Chris Mowry]

What was. How did I get.

[Harry Sisson]

Okay.

[Chris Mowry]

How did I get walked? Well, I'm up here, you're over there.

[Harry Sisson]

I'm meant to be talking.

[Chris Mowry]

Harry, here's a question. Did Renee. Did Renee Good hit the officer with her suv? Wait, wait, wait.

[Harry Sisson]

The. If you look at the frame by.

[Chris Mowry]

Frame question, you don't. You don't need a par.

[Harry Sisson]

Michael, Michael, if this Is a more.

[Chris Mowry]

Nuanced yes or no, Michael, you would.

[Harry Sisson]

Agree that this is a more nuanced issue.

[Chris Mowry]

I would not agree with that. Did this woman hit the officer with her suv?

[Harry Sisson]

Her SUV bumped the officer, which still does not justify.

[Chris Mowry]

Bumped him with a free. Michael, Michael, Michael, Michael. If I tap Deadly for us.

[Harry Sisson]

If I tapped you on the shoulder right now, can you shoot me in the face?

[Chris Mowry]

If you tapped me with your suv, I probably would. Yeah.

[Michael Knowles]

Yeah.

[Harry Sisson]

What if she's going three miles an hour? What if she's going three miles an hour?

[Chris Mowry]

Do we have any more questions? Do we have. No more. Okay, here we go. We got to figure out who won that round.

[Harry Sisson]

Who do we get to pick? I thought your colleague actually asked a really good question. So are we going.

[Chris Mowry]

Margaret. She comes. Do you want. Do you want hand goes to the vip? I defer. I defer.

[Harry Sisson]

I thought she asked a good question.

[Chris Mowry]

I am going to. Maybe I'll separately buy that fake Harry fan out there a drink afterward. But Mary Margaret gets to go to the vip. By the way, Mark, I interrupted you. You had a point to make.

[Harry Sisson]

Yes, I had.

[Chris Mowry]

I had several points.

[Michael Knowles]

Whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa.

[Chris Mowry]

So the Alex Predict shooting, you're saying he was legally carrying a gun?

[Harry Sisson]

Yeah.

[Chris Mowry]

Minnesota state law requires you to carry your ID and a permit. I see you over there.

[Michael Knowles]

I see you over there.

[Chris Mowry]

They're not based like Tennessee where you can have constitutional carry. Thank you. So that's not legally, but. So you're saying it wasn't legal. He wasn't legally carrying it. That's a good point. But also, as a responsible gun owner myself.

[Michael Knowles]

Yeah.

[Chris Mowry]

You basically are drilled into you that if you always carry a gun, that's fine. But if you only carry a gun in certain situations, it seems like you're looking for trouble. And I know personally if I'm out carrying a gun, I'm the biggest in the world, like a hundred. Because if someone talks. If someone. I think if you're carrying to me, I let it go. Because literally anything when you're there is a huge responsibility because anything can become a deadly encounter. So it was incredibly irresponsible of him to go into.

[Michael Knowles]

Hold on. Really quickly, really quickly, two things. You could start to talk about the nuance of whatever the specific law is in Minnesota about how you carry. But again, I still don't believe that. That if you could prove to me right now without a shadow of a doubt that Alex, who was again, taking care of our veterans as a nurse, if you could prove to me without a Shadow of doubt that he was Satan on earth. I still don't believe that that makes it justifiable that he's executed in broad daylight. Hold on.

[Chris Mowry]

It's an important point, though.

[Michael Knowles]

Hold on, hold on, hold on. And so I do want to point out, although I appreciate, and you may be correct on the Minnesota law about whatever he was required to have, even if you could prove to me right now that he was illegally carrying, I still don't believe that that then somehow justifies, even if he's looking for trouble, him being executed in broad daylight. The gun was taken out by another officer. So he is unarmed with, what, five or six icers.

[Harry Sisson]

Did he aim the firearm at any ice age?

[Chris Mowry]

I don't think that was 100% clean.

[Harry Sisson]

Did he aim the firearm at any IC.

[Chris Mowry]

A lot of stuff happening in that time, but also talking about rhetoric and Hitler. The left is just constantly dragging. So you don't. Wait.

[Harry Sisson]

Donald Trump said that Kamala Harris.

[Michael Knowles]

Hold on.

[Chris Mowry]

Wait.

[Harry Sisson]

Donald Trump said that. That Joe Biden and Kamala Harris are fascists. So if you're using the same. Donald Trump called Kamala Harris a fascist.

[Chris Mowry]

They called him Hitler.

[Harry Sisson]

And then right after. He must be equally guilty. Be equally guilty.

[Michael Knowles]

Then can. Can you name yes or no?

[Harry Sisson]

Guys, guys, guys, guys, guys, Listen.

[Michael Knowles]

All right, all right.

[Harry Sisson]

We can't let. We can't let Mark gang up.

[Michael Knowles]

Mike, answer me a question. Can you name. What's the one prominent political figure right now who called on a stage Donald Trump? Hitler. That would be J.D. vance, his vice president. Who called him America's Hitler. There's been no elected Democrats.

[Chris Mowry]

More people who called Trump Hitler.

[Harry Sisson]

I just want to point out if we're putting.

[Michael Knowles]

If we're putting blame on calling him Hitler.

[Chris Mowry]

Hang on.

[Harry Sisson]

Mark, this is Gavin Newsom. Gavin Newsom didn't call him Hitler.

[Michael Knowles]

He did.

[Chris Mowry]

The Newsom press team just referred to the Trump administration.

[Michael Knowles]

Please give it to me. We love Mike. Some love to Mike. We love Mike.

[Harry Sisson]

They don't. Because they love. I love listening to conservatives lecture liberals about gun rights. And the way you ditch the second amendment so quickly when it's not convenient for you is unbelievable to me.

[Chris Mowry]

I am.

[Harry Sisson]

Oh, stop it.

[Chris Mowry]

I'm a guy.

[Harry Sisson]

I have my concealed carry license. I have the right to carry a gun in the Constitution, same as everybody else. Alex Preddy left his house. He's protesting ice. He's recording ice. He didn't brandish the gun. He didn't need it. They threw him to the ground. They shot him.

[Michael Knowles]

He didn't need it.

[Harry Sisson]

He didn't use it. He didn't brandish it. They threw him to the ground. They beat him. They shot him three times. If that happened to a conservative, you would be and moan it and you'd be absolutely right to. And I heard conservatives.

[Chris Mowry]

Conservatives don't obstruct law enforcement generally.

[Harry Sisson]

Oh, no, they just raid the Capitol. He wasn't right. They just raid the Capitol.

[Chris Mowry]

They just take selfies in the Capitol.

[Harry Sisson]

They just raid the Capitol. And then they beat police officers to say Alex Preddy was obstructing law enforcement.

[Chris Mowry]

Bro, he kicked in the real.

[Michael Knowles]

The.

[Chris Mowry]

The tail light on a federal law enforcement.

[Michael Knowles]

Therefore he deserves death.

[Chris Mowry]

And then he.

[Michael Knowles]

Therefore he deserves death.

[Chris Mowry]

No, I'm just saying he obstructed law enforcement. I'm just making a very modest point. And he's denying for some reason.

[Harry Sisson]

Well, let me make a modest point for you, Michael.

[Michael Knowles]

Ashley Babbitt shooting something.

[Harry Sisson]

Mark over there. You guys complained about Ashley Babbitt who was trying to bring him to the Capitol. Thank you. And she deserved to die.

[Chris Mowry]

She did.

[Michael Knowles]

Okay.

[Harry Sisson]

Yes.

[Chris Mowry]

I just. Wait, I mean. I mean, I don't like to hear.

[Harry Sisson]

Hear that. Don't act shock. You were just defending the shooting of Alex Freddy. Right you right there. Cops were be turning away. Look daddy part of the cop beaters. So don't lecture me.

[Chris Mowry]

I'm not lecturing you and us just. We can just retire, right? Should I come up there?

[Harry Sisson]

No.

[Chris Mowry]

Yeah, but basically I'm just. I need to sum this up.

[Michael Knowles]

To sum this up.

[Chris Mowry]

To quote the great Little John. Don't start. No, won't be no great point. Great philosopher Little himself into.

[Harry Sisson]

So you agree.

[Chris Mowry]

You agree with what happened to Ashley B.

[Harry Sisson]

Filming ICE agents is not a death sentence.

[Chris Mowry]

You agree with Tom Bruce. Okay, it is time. All right. We already picked the vip. It is time for round. My favorite time of the night is my topic. And my topic is America isn't stolen. Billie Eilish is wrong about that. But even if it were stolen, we would deport the illegals just the same. So Billie Eilish makes a claim at the Grammys. She says no one is illegal on stolen land, which is not true. It's not true. Because if you're on stolen land and you murder somebody, that's still illegal. That's still a crime. You can't murder people or rape people even if it's stolen land. But the second reason that her claim was false is that America has not stolen land. Land by any measure. Any way that we think of international law or history in anything resembling A global standard. By that standard, America is not stolen. So before I even go on with my diatribe, you guys are relatively more moderate, more slightly more reasonable, maybe. Do you think America is stolen land?

[Michael Knowles]

I think two things. I think that the phrase no one is illegal on stolen land should. Shouldn't be. I think it's. It's an issue when you take it so literally. I think the point is that obviously America was founded on. Or we were. We were all immigrants. We came over here.

[Chris Mowry]

We were not all.

[Michael Knowles]

Hold on, hold on, hold on, hold on.

[Harry Sisson]

Let me finish.

[Chris Mowry]

So I just disagree with that.

[Michael Knowles]

No, okay, okay, okay. We're all immigrants. We traveled over here, we killed a bunch of people, we took land. I mean, all. All land is technically stolen land. All countries were founded. Hold on, hold on. All countries were founded on some amount of sin. I think the more important point of this is that I don't understand to the latter half why the demonization of illegal immigrants.

[Chris Mowry]

The point of the first, it's not a demonization. We just want to enforce the law.

[Michael Knowles]

Okay, but why. You still haven't answered that question from earlier. Why?

[Chris Mowry]

Because it's the law.

[Michael Knowles]

Okay, okay, but there's a lot of laws we don't enforce. Hold on.

[Chris Mowry]

We should enforce them.

[Michael Knowles]

Okay, well, there's a lot that we don't. Give me. Why do you believe, besides it just being law, it should be enforced?

[Chris Mowry]

Because. I'll answer that if you'd like me to.

[Michael Knowles]

Please.

[Chris Mowry]

Because a nation is defined geographically by its borders. The most basic right that defines a political community is the right to define who is part of it and who is not part of it. So it is beyond the laws passed by Congress that are supposed to be enforced by the executive, they're upheld by the judiciary. It is a basic tenet of any political community that you get to determine who's in and who's out. If we do not enforce that most basic law, we would cease in any meaningful sense to be a political community. Both parties agreed on that until very recently.

[Michael Knowles]

I don't believe that there's anybody advocating for, not at some level, enforcement enforcing immigration law.

[Chris Mowry]

You don't think anyone's, like, advocating open borders? I don't think there is.

[Harry Sisson]

I don't think that there's a. I.

[Michael Knowles]

Don'T think that there's a single problem.

[Chris Mowry]

Saying that no one is illegal.

[Michael Knowles]

Hold on. No, no, no, no. But the second point of this is that everybody believes that at some level we should have better immigration reform. We're just going to disagree about how to do that.

[Chris Mowry]

Should we deport the elite?

[Michael Knowles]

No, because the point there is no.

[Chris Mowry]

There you go then, I guess.

[Michael Knowles]

Hold on, hold on, hold on, hold on. I believe that undocumented individuals in the United States are generally a net benefit currently for the American people.

[Harry Sisson]

No, no.

[Michael Knowles]

People are going to laugh. The Cato, hold on, hold on, hold on. The Cato, the Cato, it's a right wing think tank.

[Chris Mowry]

Let me point this out. It's a libertarian.

[Michael Knowles]

Okay. The Cato Institute this week, this week released a study that since from 1994 to now, undocumented people have paid the federal government roughly $10 trillion in taxes.

[Chris Mowry]

I think, and zillion.

[Michael Knowles]

Hold on, hold on, hold on. $10 trillion in taxes and they have used benefits from the U.S. government, about 6 trillion. That's a $4 trillion surplus. And they analyzed why economically are they a net benefit?

[Chris Mowry]

Yeah, Libertarians like open borders. Hold on.

[Michael Knowles]

Especially the Canadians.

[Chris Mowry]

Those numbers are wrong.

[Michael Knowles]

But why are they wrong?

[Harry Sisson]

Why do you think they're wrong?

[Chris Mowry]

Because, because, because they actually are net takers. And if you don't want to look at.

[Michael Knowles]

They're not.

[Chris Mowry]

I don't. You can look at the Senate for immigration. I don't believe that they're mass migrant. One is anti mass migrant. But it's evading the question because we're talking about the law. Do you think that the American people have the right to enforce the laws duly passed by Congress to have their own borders and define who's in the country?

[Michael Knowles]

I think, I think.

[Chris Mowry]

Yes or no?

[Michael Knowles]

Hold on, hold on. No, because, because I think it's a dishonest premise.

[Chris Mowry]

There's a simple.

[Michael Knowles]

There are so many laws. I think that we should.

[Chris Mowry]

I'm not asking about so many laws. I'm asking about this one.

[Michael Knowles]

Can I just say something really quick?

[Chris Mowry]

Can you answer the question right now?

[Michael Knowles]

Right now in the United States, we do not have enough native born. I'm just giving one example before you speak. We do not have enough native born US citizens to work every single job. If every single undocumented person right now was, was deported this instant.

[Chris Mowry]

I'm going to bet. Hold on, hold on one second. I'm going to bet you in the front row $20. I'm going to bet you right now $20 that he will not answer my question.

[Michael Knowles]

I'm going to ask your question. No, no, no. I'm going to answer that question. I'm going to.

[Harry Sisson]

I'm going to take the opposite. He's going to answer it.

[Chris Mowry]

Okay, you're an omega.

[Michael Knowles]

I, I, I will I just. Please, quickly. Again, there's clearly like that example I just gave. If every undocumented person was deported from the United States tomorrow, our economy, just as one example, would fall apart overnight.

[Chris Mowry]

Simple questions.

[Michael Knowles]

I am going.

[Chris Mowry]

I'm going to promise me that it's.

[Michael Knowles]

Very clear that in the current setup of the United States, we should allow undocumented people to have a process to find. Get legal immigration status, and we should pass immigration reform to increase security at the border and make it easier to get into the United States legally. I think the premise. The answer to your question.

[Chris Mowry]

You owe me 20.

[Michael Knowles]

No, no, no, no. I got you the answer. The answer is that we should enforce laws in. In a civil way.

[Chris Mowry]

And currently the civil way is to enforce them. It's called.

[Michael Knowles]

I disagree. And there's so many.

[Chris Mowry]

It's literally what it's called. There's a lot.

[Michael Knowles]

There's so many good examples of US Laws that we don't enforce all the time.

[Chris Mowry]

Yeah.

[Michael Knowles]

Yeah.

[Chris Mowry]

Will you answer my question or is Harry paying me 20 bucks?

[Michael Knowles]

What is it?

[Chris Mowry]

What is. Should we deport the illegals?

[Michael Knowles]

I don't. I disagree with the premise of the question.

[Chris Mowry]

20 bucks, buddy.

[Michael Knowles]

I believe I. No, no, no, no, no, no, no.

[Chris Mowry]

Easiest money.

[Harry Sisson]

I.

[Michael Knowles]

No, no, no, no, no. I believe.

[Chris Mowry]

I believe actually, that might be the.

[Michael Knowles]

I believe. I believe we should.

[Chris Mowry]

Was easiest. That was a little harder.

[Michael Knowles]

Hold on. I believe we should deport undocumented individuals who have committed violent crimes. Yes.

[Chris Mowry]

That is why I support the illegals.

[Michael Knowles]

No, I think I know is an I believe.

[Harry Sisson]

I believe it's a more nuanced topic.

[Michael Knowles]

We should. We should deport undocumented people who have committed violent crimes. Yes.

[Chris Mowry]

So I think there are a lot question.

[Michael Knowles]

I think there are a lot of undocumented immigrants in this country who have lived here.

[Chris Mowry]

General question.

[Harry Sisson]

Hold on.

[Chris Mowry]

They're asking that question.

[Michael Knowles]

I don't think your general question is in good faith. It.

[Chris Mowry]

It is in good faith. It's not in good until like five.

[Harry Sisson]

You would. You would. You would concede that simple.

[Chris Mowry]

But I want. I don't want you to think I'm stealing your 20 bucks.

[Michael Knowles]

Oh, my God.

[Chris Mowry]

Should we deport the illegal aliens in America? I just answered yes or no.

[Michael Knowles]

I don't.

[Chris Mowry]

Yes or no?

[Michael Knowles]

I just answered the question yes or no.

[Harry Sisson]

Wait, Michael, leave 20 bucks.

[Michael Knowles]

I don't think the answer is.

[Harry Sisson]

Michael. Mike, it's a nuanced question, right? Yes, it is. Because I think.

[Chris Mowry]

I think you might knew how to answer it. I think you might.

[Harry Sisson]

Michael.

[Chris Mowry]

Obama, even when he ran Wait, wait, Wa.

[Harry Sisson]

You might find some people in here who would agree that somebody who's been here for 30 years has never committed.

[Chris Mowry]

A crime with the illegals.

[Harry Sisson]

Yeah, wait, Mikey, let me finish. I think you might find. Maybe not in here, I don't know, but Republicans generally, you might find some people who argue and would agree with me that if you've been here for, like, 30 years, you've paid your taxes, you've never committed a violent crime, even if you have a speeding ticket, whatever, if you've given back to your case community, why would we deport that person instead of giving them a pathway to citizenship? If they're giving back to America, which is exactly what we want from immigrants, why would we deport them?

[Chris Mowry]

Because it's the law.

[Harry Sisson]

And I don't care. You voted for a felon. You can't talk about them being undocumented and breaking a law if you voted for a felon.

[Michael Knowles]

Yeah, so, Michael, you right there.

[Harry Sisson]

I see you really quickly.

[Chris Mowry]

He's trying to save his buddies.

[Michael Knowles]

No, no, I do want to point out. To your point, you said it's a simple yes or no question.

[Harry Sisson]

You voted for a criminal. You talk about them breaking law. You don't care about. Donald Trump being a convicted felon, has.

[Chris Mowry]

Not had one sip of his tequila, and he's belligerent right now. He's belligerent. Okay, we need to figure out, do we have another question at the mic? Do we have. We do. Okay, really quickly.

[Michael Knowles]

Sorry, Mike, you're not getting his money. I just want to point out. I just want to point out, even Obama had a nuanced take on this. His take.

[Chris Mowry]

Well, eventually.

[Michael Knowles]

Hold on, hold on. Regardless of how, let's say, Obama's immigration policy was enforced, he obviously had a setup where he wanted to only be focusing on people within, like, 100 miles of the border, because he believed that if you were within 100 miles of the border, you just came across the United States. He believed we should focus on criminals. But if you were, let's say in Minnesota, for example, and you were undocumented, it was far more likely that you were here with a family, you had built a life. And so he first wanted to focus on within 100 miles of the border. So if you know what I remember, if you asked.

[Chris Mowry]

If you know what I remember, if you Just answering your point, if you. Obama said that executive amnesty would be unconstitutional, and then he did it anyway. So I remember. You're right. He did have nuanced views in as much as they contradicted Themselves.

[Michael Knowles]

Yeah. Of a couple.

[Harry Sisson]

Okay.

[Michael Knowles]

I just. To your question of should we deport the illegals. Even Obama would say that's a dishonest framing.

[Chris Mowry]

What did Bill Clinton say?

[Michael Knowles]

It's a nuanced. It's a nuanced question. I don't know.

[Harry Sisson]

We don't care what Bill Clinton said. We're different party. We have a nuanced take different.

[Chris Mowry]

Nominated Hillary less than 10 years ago.

[Harry Sisson]

I would argue that Hillary in 2016 was different than Bill Clinton in his presidency. Hillary Clinton was not calling for social services to be defunded, but we in the Democratic Party have a nuanced view of immigration that is far better for the United States. United States, than you, who is just like, should we deport everybody or not?

[Chris Mowry]

It's not.

[Harry Sisson]

It's not an absolute.

[Chris Mowry]

Enforce the law when I want to. That's not. A question.

[Harry Sisson]

All right, sorry.

[Mary Margaret]

I'm back. This time for you boys.

[Harry Sisson]

Ah.

[Michael Knowles]

Okay.

[Mary Margaret]

Early on, I think it was Harry, but it could have been either one of you just conf.

[Chris Mowry]

They all look the same.

[Harry Sisson]

We do look the same. Generic white guys.

[Michael Knowles]

Generic white guys do look very similar.

[Mary Margaret]

Yes, but you made the claim that right wing political violence is more prominent than left wing political violence, which is an insane claim to make. When in September, Charlie Kirk was assassinated on a college campus. Debating people win. Friendly debate. And since then, we have only seen a rise in left wing violence. We see them openly chanting for people to be killed, including Donald Trump. Speech is violence now people, including Nick Shirley.

[Harry Sisson]

It can be in some cases, but not that good.

[Mary Margaret]

To do journalism. Independent journalism.

[Michael Knowles]

Nick Shirley's not a journalist.

[Harry Sisson]

Yeah, he's not a journalist. He's an idiot.

[Mary Margaret]

They told him he would get Kirked.

[Michael Knowles]

Okay, okay, wait, hold on, hold on. I'm gonna let. I'm gonna let Harry answer this. I want to let Harry answer this. I just want to say two things briefly. What happened to Charlie Kirk was absolutely abhorrent and wrong and terrible. I want to point that out. Yes, Number one. Number two, Nick Shirley is not a journalist. Okay? He. I'll explain. I'll explain if you let me.

[Chris Mowry]

Please.

[Michael Knowles]

Look at these people freaking out.

[Chris Mowry]

He's not a journalist. Does he actually break.

[Harry Sisson]

No, there's nothing.

[Michael Knowles]

There's nothing. Nothing. Nothing. Nothing. Nothing about what? Nick Shirley. Stupid video. Nothing was uncovered. Right. We've been going after this fraud in Minnesota for a long time. The Biden. Hold on. The Biden DOJ literally brought charges against like 55 different people in Minnesota. Relating, relating. I just quickly. Nick Shirley didn't Expose anything that we didn't already know. And it was full of lies, hate, racism. That's all I'm saying.

[Harry Sisson]

Look, here, here, look. We both, Chris and I, first of all, on a serious note, the day that Charlie Kirk was shot and murdered, we both got out there on every platform and said, it is horrific, horrific, horrific. We condemn it.

[Mary Margaret]

I am not accusing you specifically.

[Harry Sisson]

We agree with all. Political violence is bad. Political violence is bad. We, we disagree with it. We still disagree with it. We don't make jokes about it. We don't laugh about it. It was horrific. We all saw it on our timeline. It was awful. Great. Now, on the topic of political violence, Melissa Hortman in Minnesota was murdered by a Trump supporter who told the New York Post he was a Trump supporter. And when Donald Trump was asked, are you good? Why didn't you lower the flags for Melissa Hortman? Why did you do it for Charlie Kirk, not her? He said, who? When Nancy Pelosi's husband was beaten over the head with a hammer, Donald Trump Jr. Posted a photo on Instagram mocking it. Donald Trump. Trump also mocked it, saying, how's Paul Pelosi doing right now? Might I add, January 6th was the largest example of political violence in modern American.

[Chris Mowry]

Harry, Harry, wait, wait. It wasn't even the largest example of political violence at the Capitol.

[Harry Sisson]

It's the largest example of political violence in modern American history. And what happened?

[Chris Mowry]

What about when, what about when the Puerto Rican nationalists shot up the House floor and shot five members of Congress?

[Harry Sisson]

Bad. That's bad.

[Chris Mowry]

What about, what about. Wait, hold on.

[Harry Sisson]

Let me answer a question.

[Chris Mowry]

Let me answer in the cap.

[Harry Sisson]

Let me answer a question. And I'm happy to, happy to talk about. Condemn all of it. That was the largest example of political violence in recent American history. And by what happened to those people? They beat police officers, they got prosecuted by a proper doj, and then Donald Trump pardoned them. By the way, many of them have been convicted again or charged again on serious crimes like child pornography possession. Right, so you want to talk about political violence, look at your own side. Donald Trump mocks political violence, whereas we condemn all of it. Whether you're a Democrat, Republican, you should be able to say what you want when you want.

[Chris Mowry]

Do Democrats conduct. Yes, because there was a very interesting article in a magazine I very rarely read called the Atlantic, which pointed out that as of last year, contrary to previous trends, political violence became predominantly a left wing phenomenon rather than a right wing phenomenon. Now, this was based on evidence from a generally more left leaning institute. Obviously in the Atlantic, which is left leaning. And what's funny about it is even using their own data, their data which explains exclude instances of left on right political violence, including one that I experienced myself when Antifa showed up and threw an explosive at a building when I was on stage. It was great. It was okay. We survived. A poor cop was injured, but she made it out okay eventually. Good. That wasn't even counted in the data sets of political violence. The BLM violence, which killed dozens of people wasn't counted in the data sets of political violence. So. Hold on. The point I'm making, Gary, is.

[Harry Sisson]

Sorry, go ahead.

[Chris Mowry]

Even using data sets which by and large exclude left wing political violence, even the Atlantic magazine admitted that today political violence in America is predominantly a left wing, not a right wing phenomenon.

[Harry Sisson]

So I, I, but there's data undercounted on both sides, I'm sure. I've had political violence against me by Republicans in the streets. It was awful. And obviously I'm fine, I made it. But that was not counted in any.

[Chris Mowry]

Studies, if I may ask.

[Harry Sisson]

You can ask. Well, it was, it was funny. We were in the bar in New York City. My friends and I were walking around. These guys came up to me. They were like, oh, Harry, sis. And they shoved the phone in my face. They threw a beer and we threw some punches. It's fine. It's never, I've never talked shit. I never talked about it before.

[Chris Mowry]

Are you breaking news on me?

[Harry Sisson]

No, no, no, no, no.

[Michael Knowles]

But you know, I, you and I have also both been swatted.

[Harry Sisson]

We've also, I've been swatted. I've had the FBI sent to my. Or the, Yeah, I guess the FBI sent to my house, my school, all that crap. It's been, it's been bad. But do you condemn what Donald Trump did by mocking Paul Pelosi's assault?

[Chris Mowry]

Yeah, I wouldn't mock Paul Pelosi's.

[Harry Sisson]

Okay, hold on, wait, hold on one second. Do you condemn.

[Michael Knowles]

Yes or no?

[Harry Sisson]

Do you condemn Donald Trump pardoning the police officer?

[Chris Mowry]

Donald Trump, he's the greatest president of my lifetime.

[Michael Knowles]

Well, that's.

[Chris Mowry]

Okay, so that's the difference. That's great.

[Michael Knowles]

Hold on, hold on.

[Chris Mowry]

Michael, Michael, Michael, Michael.

[Harry Sisson]

And then I'm going to ask the question. Crowd as well. Do you condemn Donald Trump pardoning people who be police officers?

[Michael Knowles]

It.

[Chris Mowry]

Which, which people?

[Harry Sisson]

You're like Alex on January 6th.

[Chris Mowry]

I do condemn Alex, Freddie and Renee. Good. In their political.

[Harry Sisson]

You condemn the people who be police officers on January 6th?

[Chris Mowry]

I think that January 6th was.

[Harry Sisson]

Okay. You're not going to give me an answer.

[Chris Mowry]

Was 120 bucks?

[Michael Knowles]

My question, yes or no.

[Harry Sisson]

Do you condemn, you condemn Donald Trump?

[Chris Mowry]

Then I'll tell you if it's.

[Harry Sisson]

Do you condemn Donald Trump pardoning people who beat police officers? Officers? I don't.

[Michael Knowles]

Can I Wait.

[Harry Sisson]

Hold on. I'm gonna ask the crowd as well. Do you guys condemn Donald Trump pardoning people who beat police officers almost to death? I don't care about you. Yes or no? Yes.

[Chris Mowry]

I want to point out.

[Michael Knowles]

Wait, wait. This guy over here said who died on January 6th. I want to point out there has been four Capitol Police officers since that day who have taken their own life in relation. Hold on, can I finish?

[Chris Mowry]

That's not the question he asked.

[Michael Knowles]

Hold on, hold on. In relation, relation to that event. Because they had a bunch of MAGA people telling them that they were part of a deep state conspiracy. They had nowhere to go. They had families. They took their own life. So that's number one. I don't think it's reasonable to say that.

[Chris Mowry]

The only two is you're now expanding the demo. Political violence.

[Michael Knowles]

I'm not. He made it.

[Chris Mowry]

He made a claim.

[Michael Knowles]

No, he made a claim that the only person who died at January 6, for example, is Ashley Babbitt. I think it's correct. I think it's dishonest to not talk about the police officers who have PTSD and then took the right office to point out.

[Harry Sisson]

You don't fully condemn political.

[Michael Knowles]

Hold on. I want to point out.

[Chris Mowry]

No, I, I, I, I don't fully condemn political violence in as much as.

[Harry Sisson]

Y' all agree with that?

[Chris Mowry]

No, I don't. I mean, someone clip that a political violence. Officers, criminals. In certain cases, that's just the death penalty is justified.

[Michael Knowles]

Two weeks ago, Two weeks ago, a man named Andrew Johnson who was found guilty of assaulting a police officer on January 6. He had a prison sentence of, I think it was two or three years. He had not started his prison sentence yet. He was, he was pardoned. He was. It's so loud. He was pardoned by Donald Trump. He was pardoned by Donald Trump. So he never served his sentence for assaulting a police officer on January 6. He was just arraigned in court because he molested an 11 year old boy three times with subpoena text messages of him telling this 11 year old boy, quote, I was a January sixer. I'm going to win a bunch of money because I'm an American hero. I'm going to leave it in my will for you. And he was basically trying to, you know, I obviously he was a predator. Right. And so my point being is that Donald Trump pardoned this guy, this 11.

[Chris Mowry]

Year old pardon him for child abuse. Grief.

[Harry Sisson]

He pardoned him. He's pardon.

[Chris Mowry]

It's almost as if some completely disingenuous.

[Michael Knowles]

If somebody is willing to assault a police officer on January 6, it's almost like they are more likely to commit violent crimes within all of our communities. This 11 year old boy. No, this is.

[Chris Mowry]

I am talking about, I am talking about. And you don't want to deport him. That's why I won 20 bucks from Mary.

[Harry Sisson]

I wanted 20 bucks on that. He answered the question.

[Michael Knowles]

I'm talking about. I'm talking about a Donald, I'm talking about a Donald Trump supporter. The guy. Donald Trump supporter who at the direction of Donald Trump showed up to the Capitol, beat a police officer, got pardoned and then molested an 11 year old boy. And we're defending it. What are we talking about?

[Chris Mowry]

I don't think anyone's defending.

[Harry Sisson]

Why do you defend his garden? Do you believe.

[Mary Margaret]

Hi. Is this question about stolen land and immigration?

[Chris Mowry]

I think it was supposed to be. It was supposed to be.

[Michael Knowles]

You can ask whatever you want that.

[Mary Margaret]

I really, really want to ask. So I come from the great land of the chieftain, Elizabeth Warren and I would like to know, hey, first of all, please describe to me the agreements that the Puritans had with the natives that were there that was not stirred stolen. And B, probably even more important, and this goes right to you, Harry. What I want to know is Maura Healey is our governor and she has asked citizens of Massachusetts to take illegal immigrants into their homes and house them because they don't have enough housing for all of them. So I just want to know, answer my question first. Not all land is stolen. And second, Harry, are you willing to house the illegal immigrants that you want to have in this country? Please answer both questions.

[Harry Sisson]

Well, I'll start with your latter one. You're gonna have to repeat the first question again because I.

[Mary Margaret]

We do not live on stolen land completely because we have had a green.

[Harry Sisson]

I'll just answer your question.

[Chris Mowry]

Okay, so hold on. The last question for him. What's the question for him?

[Mary Margaret]

I know the question is, are you willing to do what Maura Healey asked the citizens of Massachusetts to do and house illegal immigrants in your own home? Because she asked us to do that. I wasn't willing to do that, but I was wondering and that's exactly the.

[Harry Sisson]

Point I'm about to make. You don't you're very easily entertained. You with the wife, very easily entertained. So you're making the point I was about to make, which is it's voluntary. She's asking citizens to step up if they want. Nobody's to forced forcing you. And by the way, we already have programs.

[Michael Knowles]

You're right there.

[Harry Sisson]

Be quiet.

[Chris Mowry]

The question is, will you?

[Harry Sisson]

I know, I'm getting to it. I'm getting, I'm getting, I'm getting.

[Chris Mowry]

Just be quiet.

[Harry Sisson]

I'm getting to it. If you listen, if you listen, if you listen.

[Chris Mowry]

He says he's going to get to it. I'll believe him for now.

[Harry Sisson]

Okay, so you don't have to. It's voluntary. By the way, we already have programs where people have sponsors in the United States of America. Those are programs that existed under Donald Trump and Joe Biden. Now Donald Trump. So you can have a sponsor. This is nothing new. What your governor is talking about is nothing new. So I don't know why you're taking particular objection.

[Chris Mowry]

Because she's encouraging it. She's calling on people to do it as an active measure.

[Harry Sisson]

It's. It's voluntary, correct? It is.

[Chris Mowry]

Okay, great.

[Michael Knowles]

No problem.

[Harry Sisson]

So the government. The government's not infringing on you whatsoever. It's voluntary. And unfortunately, I will not be taking anybody in because I have a one bedroom in New York City. It's very expensive. So.

[Chris Mowry]

Hold on. You have a one bedroom?

[Harry Sisson]

Yeah.

[Chris Mowry]

You don't have a studio?

[Harry Sisson]

No, I do not.

[Chris Mowry]

A lot of New Yorkers have studios.

[Harry Sisson]

Well, it depends on where you live.

[Chris Mowry]

It depends on where you live. But if you. Where do you live? Well, you don't. I don't want you to get ducks, I could say. But you have a one bedroom.

[Harry Sisson]

Yes, I do.

[Chris Mowry]

A lot of people have studios in New York. So you have an extra room?

[Harry Sisson]

No, I'm. So unfortunately I don't. Unfortunately, I don't have any space. Unfortun. Unfortunately for now, I don't have any space. But if you have space in your home and you want to play into a program that we've already had for a very long time, you can do so. But nobody's forcing you to take anybody in your home. Nobody's forcing you to take anybody or in your home.

[Chris Mowry]

Wow. To hear. I live in a one bedroom in New York and I don't have any spots. Mansion.

[Harry Sisson]

Well, you're from New York. You know New York. There's no space in New York. My, my one bedroom's a shoebox. You know that. Okay.

[Chris Mowry]

Man. I don't think these migrants I don't think they need a lot of space. You know, you give them a nice little bed.

[Harry Sisson]

Anyway.

[Chris Mowry]

Do you have another question? Is it technically stolen land? Can you speak up over here?

[Michael Knowles]

Yeah.

[Chris Mowry]

Is it technically stolen land if you can't protect it?

[Michael Knowles]

If you can't protect it, yeah.

[Chris Mowry]

Great. Okay. And this actually ties in with the previous question. So, yeah, I totally reject the point you made, even at the top of this, that we're all immigrants and all the land is stolen and it's all sin. And I don't really agree with anything any of that. Some of our ancestors are immigrants. Some of them were settlers. There's a distinction between those two things. The land was acquired in America through a variety of ways. The question was about the Indians and the Pilgrims who came on the Mayflower, which is a great cigar company, by the way. So some of my ancestors were on there. And I think that the narrative from the left, that the Pilgrims came, the English came, and they just ran roughshod over the poor, sweet little Pocahontas. I think that actually does a great injustice to the Indians because these were real men, they were real statesmen. They formed alliances. The English Pilgrims actually helped the Wampanoag Nation, Chief Massasot in particular, to create a great political polity. Massasoit allied with them against the Massachusetts when the Massachusetts wanted to wipe the English out. Unfortunately, it all fell apart in King Philip's War when the Indians made a mistake. But these are real people. So we acquired that land through treaties, through some wars, treaties that followed wars. It's doing some war part is doing.

[Harry Sisson]

A lot of heavy lift.

[Chris Mowry]

I don't know if you guys are Hispanic. The Indians also acquire their territory through the war.

[Michael Knowles]

I feel like that was my ritual. That was part of my ritual.

[Chris Mowry]

But I don't think most places were.

[Michael Knowles]

Founded through some amounts of sin.

[Chris Mowry]

But I don't think that's sin necessarily. Wars can be justified, and this goes back to.

[Harry Sisson]

Wars can be justified.

[Chris Mowry]

So the American country was founded through treaties, through wars, through purchases. Obviously, we doubled the size of the country in the Louisiana Purchase, and it is recognized by any way you slice international law, including the law of conquest, which is recognized all the way up to 1907 in the Hague Convention. It's recognized through the doctrine of discovery. It's recognized through the United nations, the United Nations Charter. So there is actually no way. I mean, it's kind of a funny thing to debate, Billie Eilish, but some of the libs very seriously claim this is stolen land. Well, look, we're not acknowledged.

[Harry Sisson]

We're not going out there and saying stolen land. Yes, but we believe, I fundamentally believe on this topic of Billie Eilish that there are probably more important issues out there than what Billie Eilish does at the Grammys. I think maybe we should be focusing on housing prices and grocery prices and things like that. You'd rather talk about Billie Eilish? No, no, no. Or the Epstein files?

[Chris Mowry]

Well, we talked about that. I want to double program it, but.

[Harry Sisson]

But I'd love to.

[Chris Mowry]

The point is, it's not just Billie Eilish. Many Democrats, in fact, I think who, who claims that, like.

[Harry Sisson]

Do you think this is a majority position.

[Chris Mowry]

Omar?

[Harry Sisson]

Do you think this is a majority position in the Democratic Party?

[Chris Mowry]

I think it is a growing position and I think it's a broad look.

[Harry Sisson]

As somebody in the Democratic Party.

[Chris Mowry]

America is not stolen land.

[Harry Sisson]

I'm not of the view. I'm not going to go around saying that. America, stolen land.

[Chris Mowry]

So you don't think it's stolen land?

[Harry Sisson]

I'm not going to go around saying that. No.

[Chris Mowry]

I'm not asking what you say. You don't think it's stolen. Do you think America's stolen land?

[Michael Knowles]

I don't know.

[Harry Sisson]

Here we go.

[Chris Mowry]

You say it's not a mainstream view. Half of you.

[Harry Sisson]

He just said he doesn't know. That doesn't mean he's taking the view.

[Chris Mowry]

He doesn't. He doesn't.

[Michael Knowles]

I do want to. I do want to point out. I do want to point out to the, to the question. The point I made earlier is that, like, when I see that I don't again take. Take the position so literally. I think the point of saying no one is illegal installation land, again comes back to at least some of our roots are based as they are based.

[Chris Mowry]

I agree. They're very, very based.

[Harry Sisson]

Some of our roots.

[Michael Knowles]

Some of our roots are based in immigration. And we shouldn't be demonizing a bunch of people just because they don't look like me who came to America just to have a better life.

[Chris Mowry]

Is there a distinction between legal and illegal immigration?

[Michael Knowles]

Is there a distinction? Yeah. Yes.

[Chris Mowry]

Okay. I think then you just made a disingenuous point because you tried to conflate illegal immigration, which is what people take issue with. Immigration, more violence.

[Michael Knowles]

No, no, no. I think.

[Chris Mowry]

Including an earlier election.

[Michael Knowles]

No, no. I think. I think the point was it matters why people come to the United States. And if some of us in our past came looking for a better life, we were. At least some of America was built off immigration. We should remember that based on the American dream. Even though we would probably agree that our immigration system has been broken for a long time, we need some massive reforms. We want people here the right way and legally right now. Because that system is so broken, it has caused people to be here either.

[Chris Mowry]

On expired visas or is broken immediately caused illegal immigration.

[Michael Knowles]

Part of what's. I mean. Well, part of that is that if you request a visa, like, if you request a visa, it may take. You might have a court date in eight or nine years.

[Chris Mowry]

We don't take enough people.

[Michael Knowles]

Wait, that's not what I said.

[Chris Mowry]

Hold on.

[Harry Sisson]

You're.

[Chris Mowry]

You're claiming what's broken about it is we don't take enough people, but we've been taking legally a million people a year too many.

[Michael Knowles]

I didn't say it's that we. We. We don't take enough. I said that it takes so long. Even if you. If you have a justifiable reason and you want to follow the American dream like we all supposedly believe in.

[Chris Mowry]

So we shouldn't take legal immigrants.

[Michael Knowles]

I believe that we should. Joe Biden.

[Chris Mowry]

So you do. We should take more.

[Michael Knowles]

I do believe we should take more illegal. Jesus Christ. I do believe we should take more legal immigration. Joe Biden tried to pass a massive immigration bill.

[Chris Mowry]

Confused because you just said you weren't.

[Michael Knowles]

Hold on, hold on. Joe Biden tried to pass a massive immigration bill that would have increased the amount of legal immigrants.

[Harry Sisson]

I know.

[Chris Mowry]

I'm glad that.

[Michael Knowles]

Why Republicans?

[Chris Mowry]

Enough.

[Harry Sisson]

It was written by a Republican.

[Michael Knowles]

Hey, quick question. So throughout this entire time.

[Harry Sisson]

I love this guy.

[Michael Knowles]

I love this guy.

[Harry Sisson]

Sorry, go ahead.

[Chris Mowry]

Who's up there? Oh, no.

[Harry Sisson]

Yeah, no, I love him. Go ahead.

[Michael Knowles]

So throughout this entire conversation of immigration, I keep hearing from Chris and I believe Harry as well, that we need to deport only violent criminal illegals.

[Harry Sisson]

Yeah.

[Michael Knowles]

It is insane that on a public platform, you would be willing to put your fellow countrymen aside for foreigners who do not have any right to be here. And this is the reason. This is the reason I say that. This is the reason.

[Chris Mowry]

This is my.

[Michael Knowles]

My reasoning is I'm sick and tired of seeing articles of, like, trend. Rapes a woman in this state.

[Chris Mowry]

Mississippi. 13.

[Michael Knowles]

Rapes a man in this state. Or woman or whatever it be. They're freaking crazy. My issue is all of these people. You can't say violent criminal aliens because.

[Harry Sisson]

We didn't know they were violent before.

[Michael Knowles]

We looked into them. We have no idea who these people are.

[Chris Mowry]

Even if they just answer 30 years.

[Harry Sisson]

Hold on.

[Chris Mowry]

Great point.

[Michael Knowles]

Hold on.

[Harry Sisson]

I like this guy, he's a bad point though.

[Michael Knowles]

I wanna say two things. You say, like cast your fellow Americans aside. I think at all levels, immigration helps American citizens. I thought that this Cato.

[Chris Mowry]

Focus on his.

[Michael Knowles]

I will focus on. Hold on, hold on. I will focus on Molly Tibbet because. Because undocumented.

[Harry Sisson]

No, you don't. Who said that? Who said Lincoln Riley. Who's Molly Tibbets? Exactly. Because she was a woman killed under Donald Trump. So you pick on the woman that.

[Chris Mowry]

Was killed under Joe Biden by an illegal.

[Harry Sisson]

By an undocumented immigrant.

[Chris Mowry]

Yeah, right.

[Harry Sisson]

So she was. She was. Listen. Listen to what saying I'm saying to you? Listen to what I'm saying to you.

[Chris Mowry]

The illegals didn't all just disappear.

[Harry Sisson]

Hold on, Michael, you specifically, you know Lake and Riley's name for a political reason. I ask you, who's Molly Tibbets? A woman who was killed. You don't know her because it happened under Donald Trump and you don't care if it happens under Donald Trump.

[Chris Mowry]

In fairness and I want to.

[Michael Knowles]

We don't know who she is. You don't know who she is. To this. To this Disgraceful. To this point.

[Harry Sisson]

Oh, you don't care that she was murdered? You don't care that she was murdered?

[Chris Mowry]

Well, there's a federal law care.

[Harry Sisson]

So do you, do you, do you care or no? Well, you don't. But no, you don't care enough. Excuse me.

[Chris Mowry]

You don't care over here is still evading.

[Harry Sisson]

You don't care enough because you didn't know her name.

[Michael Knowles]

Regardless.

[Harry Sisson]

You didn't know her name.

[Michael Knowles]

You know, she was okay.

[Harry Sisson]

Disgraceful. Disgraceful.

[Chris Mowry]

So many Americans are killed by illegal.

[Harry Sisson]

Undocumented immigrants commit significantly less crime than native born Americans. It's not even.

[Michael Knowles]

And that's my point. Regardless. Regardless of the economic data that shows that undocumented people support the United States fiscally for a variety of reasons. It's also through two separate studies, undocumented individuals are less likely to commit violent crimes than native born US Citizens.

[Harry Sisson]

We are. Hold on.

[Michael Knowles]

Okay, hold on. Two things. I said violent crime number one. I said violent crime. So sure, if they're in the country. Right. Which is what we should be focused on. You talked about how people are dying. People are talking about Lake and Riley. We obviously all think that violent crime is unacceptable. But undocumented individuals are less likely down. Are less. Are less likely to commit violence than native us.

[Chris Mowry]

We're doing a lot of buzzing here. I'm gonna distill down the point. Jacob's question Is why would you throw your native fellow Americans under the bus? Because you say we should deport the violent criminal Native. Hold on. Illegal aliens. But we only know that they're violent criminals once they have committed the crime. And the premise here is that none of these crimes, not a single one of them, would have been committed if the illegals had simply been deported in the first place.

[Harry Sisson]

You voted for. I wanna.

[Chris Mowry]

That's the point.

[Harry Sisson]

It's mind. It's mind numbing to me that you keep bringing up certain crimes by certain people, but you again voted for a convicted felon.

[Chris Mowry]

They have no right to be here. We have to.

[Harry Sisson]

You voted for a convicted felon. You clearly don't care about violations of law that much. Important. It's a philosophical view.

[Chris Mowry]

Focus in on this point.

[Harry Sisson]

It's a philosophical view, but we're talking.

[Chris Mowry]

About a specific issue on crime, right? We have to deal with the American citizens who commit crimes. We can't just deport them. We have to deal with them. The illegal aliens who are here who go on to commit more violent crimes, we don't have to with deal to deal with them. So every single violent crime that an illegal alien commits is unnecessary. And to Jacob's point, as he's asking you, why would you allow, why would you open yourself up and your fellow Americans up to even one of those violent crimes, a rape or murder, when you don't have to and it's against the law.

[Harry Sisson]

You were part of the people that opened us up to the crimes of Donald Trump.

[Chris Mowry]

You're trying to distract. Because you say.

[Harry Sisson]

Because you don't care about the beginning, the beginning of the trauma.

[Chris Mowry]

Totally ridiculous.

[Michael Knowles]

The beginning of the question is why would you open up your fellow Americans to this, suggesting that illegal immigration or immigration as a whole is this massive disservice. I disagree. Speaking about illegal immigration, I, I disagree with the premise. I disagree with the premise of.

[Chris Mowry]

What's the premise?

[Michael Knowles]

The premise being the suggestion that illegal immigrants are somehow much more likely to be committed violent crime.

[Chris Mowry]

That's not. You're strong, Manning that.

[Michael Knowles]

I know the premise.

[Chris Mowry]

I just told you the premise. The premise is any crime that is committed by an illegal in America is unnecessary. Why would you therefore support illegal immigration? Because that's the premise. Do you disagree with that?

[Harry Sisson]

We don't support. We don't. We don't want people to come in illegally. We don't want illegal.

[Chris Mowry]

So you want to deport the illegals?

[Harry Sisson]

No, no, no. But listen, because again, Michael, this is. Michael, this is why it's nuanced. Right. We don't want, we want everybody to come in legally, follow the law. We actually care about the law over here. Follow the law, come in legally. We don't want people to come in illegally. But we recognize that the immigration system right now is broken. There are people who are facing gang violence in their respective countries that want a better life for their kids. I'm sure that everybody in this room could put themselves in the shoes of an undocumented immigrant who's being targeted, their kids are being targeted, and they would do anything to save their family.

[Chris Mowry]

Going to answer, Jacob'?

[Harry Sisson]

It's nuanced. That's why I'm explaining it right now.

[Chris Mowry]

It's all but just, just to be.

[Harry Sisson]

Clear, we want legal immigration. We recognize the system is broken. We wanted to fix it. Joe Biden introduced a bill. Donald Trump shut it down.

[Chris Mowry]

You're right. That bill would have exacerbated, I think.

[Michael Knowles]

How so?

[Chris Mowry]

I think it does because it would have given more, more illegal aliens a path to citizenship in the United States and it would have encouraged more mass migration.

[Harry Sisson]

Encouraging people to become legal citizens is bad now?

[Chris Mowry]

Yes.

[Harry Sisson]

Wait, so now, okay, so we don't want to.

[Chris Mowry]

The crime you just create, you just want to send them.

[Harry Sisson]

You just hate all immigrants, legal or illegal. Is that my understanding?

[Chris Mowry]

Where did you get that from?

[Harry Sisson]

Well, you just said that we shouldn't bring, we shouldn't give undocumented immigrants a pathway to citizenship, making them legal. So do you.

[Chris Mowry]

Right. We should not reward their crimes. And you don't fix a problem by just redefining the problem, which is what?

[Harry Sisson]

That law, if they've been given, if they've been in the United States for 30 years, they've given back to their community by working a job, they haven't committed a crime. Why shouldn't they be rewarded citizens they.

[Chris Mowry]

Can go back and apply to become American citizens.

[Harry Sisson]

With the broken system as it stands right now, what are they going to go face gang violence?

[Chris Mowry]

They're all facing gang violence. Man, we got a lot of hypotheticals here, huh? We shouldn't.

[Harry Sisson]

Wait, wait, wait, wait.

[Michael Knowles]

Didn't your hypothetical start with if there's an undocumented person here and they happen to commit a violent crime, then therefore it's an atrocity?

[Chris Mowry]

Yeah, that was the question that neither of you will answer. Okay.

[Michael Knowles]

Because again, I, I, I disagree.

[Chris Mowry]

Okay, you won't answer it.

[Michael Knowles]

I give up.

[Chris Mowry]

Who won that round? Do we believe it was the liberals?

[Michael Knowles]

Thanks, Mike.

[Harry Sisson]

Thank you, Mike.

[Chris Mowry]

We didn't even get the other one. That's great. Okay. And who thinks it was the conservative side?

[Harry Sisson]

Okay.

[Chris Mowry]

All right. Are we going to pick a VIP for. Are we going to get a VIP over there? I defer. Jacob wants it. Who gets it? Who. Who gets it?

[Harry Sisson]

I want. Oh, he didn't ask.

[Chris Mowry]

Who is.

[Michael Knowles]

Yeah.

[Harry Sisson]

I don't know.

[Michael Knowles]

Oh, I gotta go with my. My. My. My guy in the. I forget his name. Baseball cap. I'm sorry.

[Harry Sisson]

Jacob.

[Chris Mowry]

Jacob?

[Michael Knowles]

Is that Jacob? I'm sorry, Jacob. I should remember your name. I apologize.

[Harry Sisson]

Jacob was very nice to us all day. We were at your.

[Chris Mowry]

He was nice to you? He was nice. I gave him explicit instructions to be a huge jerk.

[Michael Knowles]

Okay, Jacob, you've been great.

[Chris Mowry]

Come on. In my opinion, nobody wins a bar fight. They're only losers. So the question is, who lost the hardest tonight? Which is related to who's buying the next round, which is not related to. But it is coincident with. When is Harry giving me my 20 bucks? Now, who thinks the biggest loser was Harry? It was rigged from the start.

[Harry Sisson]

It was.

[Michael Knowles]

Okay.

[Chris Mowry]

Who thinks the biggest loser was Chris?

[Michael Knowles]

Wow.

[Chris Mowry]

Unbelievable.

[Michael Knowles]

All right, man.

[Chris Mowry]

Who thinks the biggest loser was me?

[Harry Sisson]

Come on.

[Michael Knowles]

Whoa.

[Harry Sisson]

Come on.

[Chris Mowry]

And they have microphones, so it's kind of louder. Okay. I guess it was Harry. That was. I knew it. From the minute he walked out, I had a feeling.

[Harry Sisson]

I had a feeling. I had a feeling.

[Michael Knowles]

That means you killed him.

[Harry Sisson]

Oh, thanks.

[Chris Mowry]

Thank you, Harry. I'm glad. I love this. We thank you all for being here. Thank you both for being here. I will see you all at the next bar fight.