Podcast Summary: The Michael Knowles Show — An Expert Exploration into Thomas Aquinas

Guest: Fr. Gregory Pine, OP
Host: Michael Knowles
Date: February 16, 2026

Main Theme & Purpose

This episode dives deep into the life, thought, and ongoing relevance of St. Thomas Aquinas, guided by Dominican priest, philosopher, and Thomistic scholar Fr. Gregory Pine. Michael Knowles and Fr. Pine explore Aquinas’ influence on faith, certainty, virtue, the purpose of law, as well as contemporary applications of his wisdom. The latter half reflects on Fr. Pine’s new book Training the Tongue, discussing the moral dimensions of speech and the virtues required for authentic human flourishing in both personal and public life.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Who Was Thomas Aquinas & Why Does He Matter?

• Aquinas as “Touchstone” of Catholic Thought:
  Fr. Pine outlines Aquinas as the inheritor and synthesizer of centuries of theological and philosophical wisdom, communicating divine truths coherently for later generations.

  “He tries to communicate the faith as it flows from God and as it conducts us back to God. … He’s wise, he’s holy, and he’s comprehensive.” (02:28–03:48 | Fr. Gregory Pine)

• The Legendary Vision & “Straw” Remark:
  Michael references the famous story of Aquinas’ mystical vision, after which Aquinas regarded his works as “so much straw”—not denigrating them, but recognizing their insignificance compared to direct experience of God.

  “They're straw by comparison to what he saw. And he saw the Lord.” (04:10–06:10 | Fr. Gregory Pine)

2. Aquinas and Modern Skepticism

• Medieval Certainty vs. Modern Doubt:
  The hosts contrast medieval certainty (and Aquinas as emblematic of it) with the post-Enlightenment suspicion of all claims to knowledge. Fr. Pine draws attention to historical traumas and philosophical shifts that eroded confidence in shared truth.

  “We're still in the aftermath… of a kind of post-apocalyptic wreck that was visited upon us by 17th century folks.” (15:21–16:56 | Fr. Gregory Pine)

• Practical Wisdom Over Complexity:
  Aquinas is praised for making complex things accessible and providing speculative principles that help people see life as intelligible and navigable, not pointlessly complicated.

  “He furnishes us with genuine wisdom that we find we can apply to practically every situation.” (11:18–13:42 | Fr. Gregory Pine)

3. Certainty, Doubt, and Approaching God

• Overcoming Despair & Modern Apathy:
  The discussion explores why so many feel spiritually lost or unable to believe, connecting this struggle to original sin and wounded nature.

  “The real protagonist of history is the beggar… we have to beg for God if we are going to be delivered from our calamity.” (17:33–19:57 | Fr. Gregory Pine)

• Concrete Spiritual Practices:
  Practical advice is given: try Eucharistic adoration, or even simply act “as if God exists” for a period to observe internal changes.

  “Just sit yourself in front of the Lord… The typical experience is that when you go home, you find that like the furniture of your moral life has shifted ever so slightly.” (17:33–19:57 | Fr. Gregory Pine)

4. Systematic Thinking & The Attraction of Dogma

• Why System Matters:
  Aquinas stands out as a systematic thinker, offering a coherent view of reality and morality—a trait attractive in an age weary of relativism and fragmentation.

  “What you have in St. Thomas… is that system or systematic approach to the whole of the faith.” (28:20–32:18 | Fr. Gregory Pine)

• Dogma as Freedom, Not Constraint:
  The idea that limits (doctrine, dogma, law) provide space for flourishing and joyful play, rather than oppression.

  “Freedom unfolds within bounds. And when you tell people that there are no rules, they end up miserable.” (38:08–39:33 | Fr. Gregory Pine)

5. Law, Goodness, and Political Philosophy

• The Purpose of Law (vs. Libertarian View):
  Law is not mere will or repression, but an “ordinance of reason” aimed at the common good and the cultivation of virtue—contrary to both modern libertarian and relativist instincts.

  “There's a natural law at work in the world, and we as rational animals are capable of discerning something of that natural law...” (42:10–43:15 | Fr. Gregory Pine)

• The Challenge of Modern Pluralism:
  They candidly address the difficulty of agreeing on basic moral goods in a fractured age, yet argue for the necessity of public consensus on at least foundational moral truths.

  “I think that everyone admits at a certain level that we have some kind of objective access to the good...” (45:24–46:54 | Fr. Gregory Pine)

6. Virtue in Practice & The Role of Grace

• Playing the Hand You’re Dealt:
  Fr. Pine emphasizes accepting one’s circumstances and seeking God’s help, rather than wishing for a “real life” elsewhere.

  “This is our real life. This is the hand that we’ve been dealt, and… we ask God for said wherewithal.” (23:58–26:59 | Fr. Gregory Pine)

• Virtue as Cultivated Habit (Not Just Avoiding Sin):
  Drawing on Aristotle and Aquinas, the conversation highlights that virtue can, over time, become natural and even joyful, not just a matter of grim restraint.

  “We want to cultivate good growth, and there might be weeds that crop up, but the idea is that they’ll get forced to the periphery…” (56:12–57:13 | Fr. Gregory Pine)

7. Sins of Speech & ‘Training the Tongue’

• The Moral Purpose of Speech:
  Fr. Pine’s new book is explored, focusing on the positive purposes of speech—communion and building up others—rather than mere freedom or license.

  “The purpose of the faculty of speech... is communion.” (53:25–54:34 | Fr. Gregory Pine)

• Detraction, Calumny & Gossip:
  These sins, rampant in online and media culture, undermine true community and self-knowledge. Fr. Pine prescribes honesty, charity, and gratitude in conversation for healthier relationships.

  “Telling the truth becomes the basis of communion. We can only come together on common ground.” (57:27–58:01 | Fr. Gregory Pine)

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Doubt and Certainty:

  “You can have the confidence that if you gaze into it, it won't be the void that gazes back.” (00:00–00:27, 65:30–67:23 | Fr. Gregory Pine)

• On the Limits of Law:

  “Law is for our good… Law is not just something I enforce… it’s an ordinance of reason.” (42:10–43:15 | Fr. Gregory Pine)

• On Virtue & Habits:

  “If all you do is root out weeds from a garden, you just have an empty garden… We want to cultivate good growth.” (56:12–57:13 | Fr. Gregory Pine)

• On the Temptation of Gossip & Speech

  “Detraction is the sin where we speak about somebody behind his back and we say true things, but… out of turn.” (69:32–71:59 | Fr. Gregory Pine)

• On the Value of Preaching:

  “Even in my attempts to be less than preachy, I end up being more than preachy. But… people can have the courage to live their lives because it’s not beyond us.” (65:30–67:23 | Fr. Gregory Pine)

Timestamps for Important Segments

• 00:00–03:48 — Aquinas’ significance in the Catholic tradition
• 04:10–07:38 — Mystical vision; “all I’ve written is straw” story
• 08:04–10:24 — Fall from favor after the Enlightenment, modern return to Aquinas’ ideas
• 13:42–15:21 — The loss of certainty and skepticism in modern culture
• 17:33–19:57 — Spiritual struggle with certainty, advice for those who doubt
• 28:20–32:18 — Aquinas as systematic thinker vs. others; authority of the Church
• 38:08–39:33 — Limits as necessary for flourishing; religion as a virtue
• 42:10–43:15 — Purpose and nature of law; natural law and public morality
• 53:25–54:34 — The ethical purpose of speech
• 56:12–57:13 — Virtue as habit; positive cultivation vs. mere suppression of vice
• 65:30–67:23 — Final thoughts on goodness, personal story, and encouragement

Tone

The episode balances high-level theological and philosophical discourse with humor, self-deprecation, and relatable asides—reflecting Michael Knowles’ and Fr. Pine’s ability to make ancient wisdom accessible to a modern audience.

For further exploration, listeners are encouraged to check out Fr. Pine’s new book, Training the Tongue, and to engage with the writings and legacy of Thomas Aquinas not merely as historical artifacts but as living guides to truth, virtue, and fulfillment in the contemporary world.