Podcast Summary: Catholic vs. Protestant: "Did We See A Miracle?" YES or NO

The Michael Knowles Show – The Daily Wire
Date: October 20, 2025
Episode Guests: Michael Knowles (Host), Ruslan KD (Guest)

Overview

This lively episode of The Michael Knowles Show features a spirited and humorous debate game between Catholic Michael Knowles and Protestant podcaster Ruslan KD. Their “yes or no” game format serves as a backdrop for a deeper exploration into contemporary religious, cultural, and theological issues, focusing heavily on points of convergence and tension between Protestant and Catholic beliefs and practices—including miracles, church authority, doctrine development, and modern culture’s impact on faith. The conversation is friendly, witty, and candid—even as it touches on centuries-old controversies—demonstrating how faith can be engaged with both passion and mutual respect.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Setting the Stage: Bet Between Friends

• The episode kicks off (03:21) with Knowles and Ruslan agreeing to a lighthearted wager based on the outcome of their debate game: if Knowles wins, Ruslan will join a future panel; if Ruslan wins, Knowles will speak at Ruslan’s “Bless God” summit in San Diego.
• Their playful negotiations set a collegial tone for the entire episode.

2. Protestant vs. Catholic Church Attendance & Liturgy

• Debate Over Church Growth Drivers (04:38–08:13):
  • Michael Knowles challenges the premise that Protestant churches are losing attendees because of contemporary worship styles; he suggests doctrine, not liturgy, is the real culprit for mainline Protestant decline.
  • Notable Quote: “The Episcopalians have better liturgy than any of the other Protestants. It's because of the teaching. The teaching has just been watered down. So they have rainbow flags outside their buildings.” (07:15 – Knowles)
  • Ruslan KD notes that some Protestant churches (including his) have grown without resorting to “laser light show” services, highlighting the importance of substantive teaching and community.

3. The (Lack of) Resurrection of New Atheism

• Discussion of ‘neo-new atheism’ (08:16–10:38):
  • Both agree that charismatic atheists like Alex O’Connor aren’t ushering in a new movement; rather, atheism’s promises (“more rational, secular society”) have remained unfulfilled.
  • Notable Quote: “There's no new atheism. The new atheism is old and it's dead.” (09:54 – Knowles)
  • They discuss the tendency of some prominent atheists, e.g., Dawkins, to now claim “cultural Christianity.”

4. Debating Orthodox vs. Catholic Apologists

• Are “Ortho Bros” Harder to Debate? (10:49–17:52):
  • Both share experiences sparring with Eastern Orthodox apologists, finding them often more difficult and “exhausting” due to lack of unity and claims of unchanged doctrine.
  • Ruslan: appreciates Catholics’ concept of “doctrinal development”—acknowledging the Church’s teachings have evolved in response to new challenges.
  • Knowles: underscores the Catholic principle: “Rome has spoken, the issue is settled,” highlighting papal authority and unity.
  • Notable Quote: “You can’t pin them down on anything…with the Catholics, we can say, look, to quote St. Augustine, Rome has spoken. The issue is settled.” (16:09 – Knowles)

5. The Nature of Catholic Teaching and ‘Contradiction’

• Clarifying Dogma vs. Prudential Judgment (19:11–27:12):
  • The hosts debate whether Vatican stances on the death penalty, global warming, and immigration are official Church teaching or opinions. Knowles stresses the distinction between non-negotiable doctrine and papal commentary on temporal affairs.
  • Notable Quote: “There’s this kind of flattening... of doctrine, dogma, perennial teachings, and a kind of practical weighing in on politics.” (23:29 – Knowles)
• Would Redefining Marriage Invalidate Catholicism? (24:41–27:12)
  • Both agree such a change is nearly unimaginable; Knowles asserts it “wouldn’t supersede clear scriptural teaching and 2,000 years of magisterial authority.”

6. Cultural Appropriation, Multiculturalism & Christian Music

• Rap, Race, and Appropriation (27:50–33:06):
  • Discussion on whether rap by non-black artists is “cultural appropriation.”
  • Ruslan reframes the term, advocating for the positive mixing of cultures: “America has always kind of thrived on cultural appropriation, going back to the Mayflower.” (33:06 – Knowles)
• Multiculturalism vs. Melting Pot (33:06–34:12):
  • Knowles argues multiculturalism means “coexist without ever sharing anything,” while a “melting pot” model leads to richer integration.
• The Question: Is Rap Music ‘Music’? (34:31–35:42)
  • Both agree rap can be music if it’s melodic, but Knowles cautions on music’s potentially hypnotic effects: “Music, more than any other art, can bypass the reason straight to the sensitive soul.” (34:49 – Knowles)

7. Miracles—Can They Happen to Protestants?

• The Central Miracle Question (36:47–38:35):
  • After watching a testimony of miraculous healing, both affirm the likelihood of genuine miracles, even outside their own traditions.
  • Notable Quote:
    • “Miracles happen. Even to Protestants. Even to Protestants. Even to Protestants. Look, even I would say if a miracle can happen to a Hindu, I guess it could happen to a Protestant, too.” (37:48 – Knowles)
    • “I probably get a lot of flack from some of my Protestant brethren who get mad when I acknowledge miracles in the Catholic Church and miracles in the Orthodox Church.” (38:22 – Ruslan)

8. Rapid Fire Round: Fun, Faith, and Fringe

• Segments include questions on the “Annabelle” doll, gateway process (CIA and the occult), hustle culture, and spiritual manifestations (39:04–50:14).
• Key topics:
  • Possession and Exorcism: Both agree inanimate objects cannot be possessed and discuss the Church’s careful distinction between mental illness and demonic activity.
  • Sleep Paralysis (46:52): Both share their own experiences and doubts, using humor to downplay their own spiritual drama.

9. Wildcards: Theological & Historical Speculation

• Were the pyramids built before the Flood? (48:12–49:50): Both playfully split—Ruslan says no, Knowles is more agnostic but open to unusual histories, demonstrating their willingness to entertain questions outside strict doctrinal boundaries.

Notable Quotes (by Timestamp)

• On Doctrine:
  “The teaching has just been watered down. So they have rainbow flags outside their buildings.” (07:15 – Knowles)
• On New Atheism:
  “There’s no new atheism. The new atheism is old and it’s dead.” (09:54 – Knowles)
• On Doctrinal Development:
  “What I love about Catholics... you guys acknowledge doctrinal development.” (11:54 – Ruslan)
• On Church Unity:
  “Rome has spoken, the issue is settled.” (16:09 – Knowles)
• On Miracles across Denominations:
  “Miracles happen. Even to Protestants. Even to Protestants. Even to Protestants.” (37:48 – Knowles)

Timestamps for Key Segments

| Timestamp | Segment/Event | |-----------|---------------------------------------------| | 03:21 | Wager established between Knowles & Ruslan | | 04:38–08:13 | Protestant vs. Catholic attendance question | | 08:16–10:38 | Neo-New Atheism discussion | | 10:49–17:52 | Ortho Bros vs. Catholics in debate | | 19:11–27:12 | Vatican stance: doctrine vs. prudence | | 27:50–35:42 | Rap music, cultural appropriation, music | | 36:47–38:35 | Miracle healing testimony & discussion | | 39:04–50:14 | Rapid-fire round (Annabelle, hustle culture, etc.)| | 48:12–49:50 | Pyramids: pre-flood tech or not? |

Language & Tone

• The episode is marked by tongue-in-cheek banter, self-deprecating jokes, and a mutual “brotherly rivals” dynamic.
• Both speakers oscillate between deep theological explanation and quick-witted, irreverent remarks (e.g., Orthodox Christians “say all sorts of things in Greek. Who even speaks that?” – Knowles, 17:49).
• Their open admission of limits (“I have not had lunch yet...I was plied with nicotine by my producer, and I have this martini in front of me.” – Knowles, 03:22) helps keep the debate accessible and engaging.

Memorable Moments

• The Wager: Stakes of panel participation and honorary speaking set the banter in motion (03:40–04:20).
• Playful Ribbing of Orthodox: Ongoing jokes about beards, Greek language, and doctrinal rigidity punctuate the segment (16:09–17:49).
• Miracle Agreement: Both hosts, despite denominational rivalry, openly acknowledge God’s power can transcend their doctrinal boundaries (37:48).
• Sleep Paralysis Jokes: Both bond over attempts (and failures) to cast out demons, using humor to normalize spiritual experiences (46:10–47:21).

Conclusion

This episode delivers a warm, knowledgeable, and thoroughly entertaining conversation about the real differences and surprising agreements between thoughtful Catholics and Protestants today. Knowles and Ruslan expertly toggle between serious doctrinal discussion and humorous pop-culture analogies, making complex theological ideas approachable. The discussion is a showcase in how to hold firm convictions while also laughing together about the quirks and claims of each other's faith traditions—and always coming back to a shared hope that miracles, debate, and even controversial music can be used for good.

Win/Loss Tally: Ruslan wins the game—Knowles “loses,” agreeing to speak at the Bless God summit, and humorously declares, “A win for the Protestant. That’s a win. We needed one. It’s devastating. Ever since the 16th century, you guys are racking up dubs.” (50:20)

Key Call to Action:
Check out Ruslan’s book “Godly: Unlocking the Full Potential of Your Time, Talent, and Treasure,” and his YouTube channel @ruslankd.