Catholic vs. Protestant: "Did We See A Miracle?" YES or NO With Ruslan KD

Summary

Podcast Summary: Catholic vs. Protestant: "Did We See A Miracle?" YES or NO

The Michael Knowles Show – The Daily Wire
Date: October 20, 2025
Episode Guests: Michael Knowles (Host), Ruslan KD (Guest)

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Overview

This lively episode of The Michael Knowles Show features a spirited and humorous debate game between Catholic Michael Knowles and Protestant podcaster Ruslan KD. Their “yes or no” game format serves as a backdrop for a deeper exploration into contemporary religious, cultural, and theological issues, focusing heavily on points of convergence and tension between Protestant and Catholic beliefs and practices—including miracles, church authority, doctrine development, and modern culture’s impact on faith. The conversation is friendly, witty, and candid—even as it touches on centuries-old controversies—demonstrating how faith can be engaged with both passion and mutual respect.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Setting the Stage: Bet Between Friends

• The episode kicks off (03:21) with Knowles and Ruslan agreeing to a lighthearted wager based on the outcome of their debate game: if Knowles wins, Ruslan will join a future panel; if Ruslan wins, Knowles will speak at Ruslan’s “Bless God” summit in San Diego.
• Their playful negotiations set a collegial tone for the entire episode.

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2. Protestant vs. Catholic Church Attendance & Liturgy

• Debate Over Church Growth Drivers (04:38–08:13):
  • Michael Knowles challenges the premise that Protestant churches are losing attendees because of contemporary worship styles; he suggests doctrine, not liturgy, is the real culprit for mainline Protestant decline.
  • Notable Quote: “The Episcopalians have better liturgy than any of the other Protestants. It's because of the teaching. The teaching has just been watered down. So they have rainbow flags outside their buildings.” (07:15 – Knowles)
  • Ruslan KD notes that some Protestant churches (including his) have grown without resorting to “laser light show” services, highlighting the importance of substantive teaching and community.

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3. The (Lack of) Resurrection of New Atheism

• Discussion of ‘neo-new atheism’ (08:16–10:38):
  • Both agree that charismatic atheists like Alex O’Connor aren’t ushering in a new movement; rather, atheism’s promises (“more rational, secular society”) have remained unfulfilled.
  • Notable Quote: “There's no new atheism. The new atheism is old and it's dead.” (09:54 – Knowles)
  • They discuss the tendency of some prominent atheists, e.g., Dawkins, to now claim “cultural Christianity.”

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4. Debating Orthodox vs. Catholic Apologists

• Are “Ortho Bros” Harder to Debate? (10:49–17:52):
  • Both share experiences sparring with Eastern Orthodox apologists, finding them often more difficult and “exhausting” due to lack of unity and claims of unchanged doctrine.
  • Ruslan: appreciates Catholics’ concept of “doctrinal development”—acknowledging the Church’s teachings have evolved in response to new challenges.
  • Knowles: underscores the Catholic principle: “Rome has spoken, the issue is settled,” highlighting papal authority and unity.
  • Notable Quote: “You can’t pin them down on anything…with the Catholics, we can say, look, to quote St. Augustine, Rome has spoken. The issue is settled.” (16:09 – Knowles)

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5. The Nature of Catholic Teaching and ‘Contradiction’

• Clarifying Dogma vs. Prudential Judgment (19:11–27:12):
  • The hosts debate whether Vatican stances on the death penalty, global warming, and immigration are official Church teaching or opinions. Knowles stresses the distinction between non-negotiable doctrine and papal commentary on temporal affairs.
  • Notable Quote: “There’s this kind of flattening... of doctrine, dogma, perennial teachings, and a kind of practical weighing in on politics.” (23:29 – Knowles)
• Would Redefining Marriage Invalidate Catholicism? (24:41–27:12)
  • Both agree such a change is nearly unimaginable; Knowles asserts it “wouldn’t supersede clear scriptural teaching and 2,000 years of magisterial authority.”

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6. Cultural Appropriation, Multiculturalism & Christian Music

• Rap, Race, and Appropriation (27:50–33:06):
  • Discussion on whether rap by non-black artists is “cultural appropriation.”
  • Ruslan reframes the term, advocating for the positive mixing of cultures: “America has always kind of thrived on cultural appropriation, going back to the Mayflower.” (33:06 – Knowles)
• Multiculturalism vs. Melting Pot (33:06–34:12):
  • Knowles argues multiculturalism means “coexist without ever sharing anything,” while a “melting pot” model leads to richer integration.
• The Question: Is Rap Music ‘Music’? (34:31–35:42)
  • Both agree rap can be music if it’s melodic, but Knowles cautions on music’s potentially hypnotic effects: “Music, more than any other art, can bypass the reason straight to the sensitive soul.” (34:49 – Knowles)

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7. Miracles—Can They Happen to Protestants?

• The Central Miracle Question (36:47–38:35):
  • After watching a testimony of miraculous healing, both affirm the likelihood of genuine miracles, even outside their own traditions.
  • Notable Quote:
    • “Miracles happen. Even to Protestants. Even to Protestants. Even to Protestants. Look, even I would say if a miracle can happen to a Hindu, I guess it could happen to a Protestant, too.” (37:48 – Knowles)
    • “I probably get a lot of flack from some of my Protestant brethren who get mad when I acknowledge miracles in the Catholic Church and miracles in the Orthodox Church.” (38:22 – Ruslan)

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8. Rapid Fire Round: Fun, Faith, and Fringe

• Segments include questions on the “Annabelle” doll, gateway process (CIA and the occult), hustle culture, and spiritual manifestations (39:04–50:14).
• Key topics:
  • Possession and Exorcism: Both agree inanimate objects cannot be possessed and discuss the Church’s careful distinction between mental illness and demonic activity.
  • Sleep Paralysis (46:52): Both share their own experiences and doubts, using humor to downplay their own spiritual drama.

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9. Wildcards: Theological & Historical Speculation

• Were the pyramids built before the Flood? (48:12–49:50): Both playfully split—Ruslan says no, Knowles is more agnostic but open to unusual histories, demonstrating their willingness to entertain questions outside strict doctrinal boundaries.

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Notable Quotes (by Timestamp)

• On Doctrine:
  “The teaching has just been watered down. So they have rainbow flags outside their buildings.” (07:15 – Knowles)
• On New Atheism:
  “There’s no new atheism. The new atheism is old and it’s dead.” (09:54 – Knowles)
• On Doctrinal Development:
  “What I love about Catholics... you guys acknowledge doctrinal development.” (11:54 – Ruslan)
• On Church Unity:
  “Rome has spoken, the issue is settled.” (16:09 – Knowles)
• On Miracles across Denominations:
  “Miracles happen. Even to Protestants. Even to Protestants. Even to Protestants.” (37:48 – Knowles)

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Timestamps for Key Segments

| Timestamp | Segment/Event | |-----------|---------------------------------------------| | 03:21 | Wager established between Knowles & Ruslan | | 04:38–08:13 | Protestant vs. Catholic attendance question | | 08:16–10:38 | Neo-New Atheism discussion | | 10:49–17:52 | Ortho Bros vs. Catholics in debate | | 19:11–27:12 | Vatican stance: doctrine vs. prudence | | 27:50–35:42 | Rap music, cultural appropriation, music | | 36:47–38:35 | Miracle healing testimony & discussion | | 39:04–50:14 | Rapid-fire round (Annabelle, hustle culture, etc.)| | 48:12–49:50 | Pyramids: pre-flood tech or not? |

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Language & Tone

• The episode is marked by tongue-in-cheek banter, self-deprecating jokes, and a mutual “brotherly rivals” dynamic.
• Both speakers oscillate between deep theological explanation and quick-witted, irreverent remarks (e.g., Orthodox Christians “say all sorts of things in Greek. Who even speaks that?” – Knowles, 17:49).
• Their open admission of limits (“I have not had lunch yet...I was plied with nicotine by my producer, and I have this martini in front of me.” – Knowles, 03:22) helps keep the debate accessible and engaging.

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Memorable Moments

• The Wager: Stakes of panel participation and honorary speaking set the banter in motion (03:40–04:20).
• Playful Ribbing of Orthodox: Ongoing jokes about beards, Greek language, and doctrinal rigidity punctuate the segment (16:09–17:49).
• Miracle Agreement: Both hosts, despite denominational rivalry, openly acknowledge God’s power can transcend their doctrinal boundaries (37:48).
• Sleep Paralysis Jokes: Both bond over attempts (and failures) to cast out demons, using humor to normalize spiritual experiences (46:10–47:21).

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Conclusion

This episode delivers a warm, knowledgeable, and thoroughly entertaining conversation about the real differences and surprising agreements between thoughtful Catholics and Protestants today. Knowles and Ruslan expertly toggle between serious doctrinal discussion and humorous pop-culture analogies, making complex theological ideas approachable. The discussion is a showcase in how to hold firm convictions while also laughing together about the quirks and claims of each other's faith traditions—and always coming back to a shared hope that miracles, debate, and even controversial music can be used for good.

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Win/Loss Tally: Ruslan wins the game—Knowles “loses,” agreeing to speak at the Bless God summit, and humorously declares, “A win for the Protestant. That’s a win. We needed one. It’s devastating. Ever since the 16th century, you guys are racking up dubs.” (50:20)

Key Call to Action:
Check out Ruslan’s book “Godly: Unlocking the Full Potential of Your Time, Talent, and Treasure,” and his YouTube channel @ruslankd.

Transcript

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[Michael Knowles]

Are Ortho bros more difficult to debate than Catholics? Oh man, you can't pin them down.

[Ruslan KD]

On anything that you guys are the.

[Michael Knowles]

Ones that schismatically, they say all sorts of stuff in Greek. Who even speaks that you know, welcome to yes or no. Okay. You don't have to applaud the bibulist. Oh, hey. All right. That's good. That's good. Yes or no is the bibulous battle to discover who knows whom better. My guest today, obviously, there's a lot of excitement. All these people packed into the audience because they wanted to meet him. Ruslan, KD how do we play? I will ask Ruslan a yes or no question. He will select his answer away from my prying eyes. Then I will guess how he answered. If I guess correctly, I get a point. If I guess incorrectly, I lose a point. No matter what, I will probably end up drinking. Then it's Ruslan's turn. Neither of us has seen the questions beforehand. Whoever has the most points at the end wins. The stakes could be higher. Ruslan, thank you for coming on the show.

[Ruslan KD]

Thank you for having me, Michael.

[Michael Knowles]

Now, I want you to know something. I have not had lunch yet, Okay? I was plied with nicotine by my producer, and I have this martini in front of me.

[Ruslan KD]

Okay? So if you lose, are we gonna get a bunch of excuses? I didn't get enough time.

[Michael Knowles]

I'm already setting that up now. That's the setup. But I want there to be a wager. Okay?

[Ruslan KD]

All right.

[Michael Knowles]

So I'm a gambling man.

[Ruslan KD]

I see.

[Michael Knowles]

I say if I win, you have to come back and do one of my panels.

[Ruslan KD]

Okay.

[Michael Knowles]

And when you're in town, if the stars align. We'll make the stars align. Latin mass.

[Ruslan KD]

Okay, that's fair. All right, that's fair.

[Michael Knowles]

What's your wager?

[Ruslan KD]

That's fair. My wager is, if I win, you get to come to my Bless God summit in San Diego, California, March 5th, 6th and 7th. And be on a panel regarding Catholic Protestant affairs.

[Michael Knowles]

So if you win, I get a speaking gig?

[Ruslan KD]

Yeah.

[Michael Knowles]

Yeah. Okay.

[Ruslan KD]

Well, unpaid speaking gig. Hold on. I can't afford your feet.

[Michael Knowles]

That's fair enough. I thought Armenians were better at driving hard. Negotiations and bargains. Okay, that's good. I'm in.

[Ruslan KD]

All right. Here we go.

[Michael Knowles]

All right. Here we go. Do you know the rules?

[Ruslan KD]

I think so.

[Michael Knowles]

Okay. That makes one of us.

[Ruslan KD]

Yes.

[Michael Knowles]

Since you're a man, I will go first. If you were a lady, I'd say you go first.

[Ruslan KD]

Okay.

[Michael Knowles]

Ready?

[Ruslan KD]

All right.

[Michael Knowles]

Is the first step for Protestant churches to match the rise in traditional Catholic attendance. To reform the laser light show concerts in their worship services? Okay. I actually have. I have thoughts on this question, but I'll save them before I have to guess your answer. So you put your answer down and then I have to guess what you would say.

[Ruslan KD]

Who wrote this question?

[Michael Knowles]

Actually, an evangelical Protestant wrote this question.

[Ruslan KD]

Okay.

[Michael Knowles]

Who I think has gone to a few laser light shows in his life.

[Ruslan KD]

It's an instrument to reform the laser light show in concerts, in the worship. Gosh, this is a good one. This is a good one. Oh, man. All right.

[Michael Knowles]

You would say no, correct? I would question the premise. Now, the Catholicism, and specifically traditional versions of Catholicism, they are spiking right now. But I don't think Protestantism is suffering. I don't think Protestantism in the evangelical way is declining. Exactly. And in some ways I think it's actually since Charlie's murder, I think it's gone up along with all Christian traditions. But no, you would say it's not the liturgy that's leading to the decline where it exists. So what's driving it?

[Ruslan KD]

Well, I actually think the entire question is interesting to say the least. Cause according to our mutual friend Trent Horne, Protestants aren't losing attendance. According to him, it's the Catholics that are losing attendance with the data that he reacted to.

[Michael Knowles]

Because we're getting adult conversions a lot, but because there's infant baptism, a lot of people, they go, they have a lunch afterward, but no one's ever really practicing the faith all that much. So for every one adult convert, you're getting like eight cradle Catholics who are leaving.

[Ruslan KD]

That's exactly what he pointed out. How does that make you feel?

[Michael Knowles]

Well, it means that we've got to be tougher on these parents. And I'm a godfather because I'm Sicilian, but also because I have this role in different kids lives. We gotta get tougher. I think certain Protestant traditions are losing people like the. I don't know. Does anyone go to Methodist churches anymore?

[Ruslan KD]

Methodists had a big schism recently over the LGBTQ thing.

[Michael Knowles]

I went, I was at the national prayer Service at the inauguration. That bishopress lady who, first of all, that alone is a problem, but then she basically took the opportunity to scold Trump on immigration or whatever.

[Ruslan KD]

That was awful.

[Michael Knowles]

I think the mainline churches on the Protestant side have emptied out, but I don't think it's just because of liturgy. The Episcopalians have better liturgy than any of the other Protestants. It's because of the teaching. The teaching has just been watered down. So they have rainbow flags outside their buildings.

[Ruslan KD]

Spot on. Yeah, that's the issue, right? Yeah. We've had record breaking attendance back to back to back to back to back for the past year. But the past several weeks, every single week there's more and more people. And we don't have laser light shows. At my church. We actually meet in an old Episcopalian building. But we would probably be like a modern evangelical type church because that building.

[Michael Knowles]

Can go one of two ways. Assuming we're not getting it back from Henry viii, you know, in the uk it's going to go one of two ways. It's either going to be low church Protestant, you know, non denom evangelical stuff, or it's going to become a mosque. But those are kind of the two choices.

[Ruslan KD]

Or they're going to tear down and build condos.

[Michael Knowles]

Yeah, condos. Or a coffee shop.

[Ruslan KD]

Yes, or a coffee shop.

[Michael Knowles]

Okay, you're up. All right, I'm going to clear my response.

[Ruslan KD]

Okay. With the rise of Alex o' Connor and others like him, is a new atheist movement forming?

[Michael Knowles]

New New Atheist.

[Ruslan KD]

I guess the new New.

[Michael Knowles]

The neo New.

[Ruslan KD]

The neo. The neo New Atheist man.

[Michael Knowles]

What would I say?

[Ruslan KD]

I think you would say no, correct? Yes.

[Michael Knowles]

You know what's forming is Alex o' Connor is going to become Christian, right?

[Ruslan KD]

I don't know about that.

[Michael Knowles]

You don't think so?

You think he's hardcore about it?

[Ruslan KD]

I think that Alex is a gentleman that's built an amazing platform and built almost a cult of personality on being a non combative, non believer. But when you get deeper with him on like, hey Alex, have you read the entire Bible?

[Michael Knowles]

Yeah.

Yeah.

[Ruslan KD]

Hey Alex, have you gone to church recently? Hey Alex, have you wrestled through these things? In my opinion, they're unfortunately very shallow answers to those questions.

[Michael Knowles]

I totally agree and I really like Alex o'. Connor. In fact, I don't know if I'm telling tales out of school. I've dined with him, with priests.

[Ruslan KD]

He's very charismatic and sweet guy.

[Michael Knowles]

But that to me is a good sign because the fact that he's very sharp, he's all these great things, we're flattering him to no end. But the fact that he doesn't have hardcore answers to all of those questions to me says the moment he's obviously curious, he probably hangs out with more Christians than he hangs out with atheists. The moment that he really starts to keep following that, he's gonna become Christian. There's no new atheism. The new atheism is old and it's dead.

[Ruslan KD]

Yeah, yeah.

[Michael Knowles]

It's not going anywhere.

[Ruslan KD]

It made so many promises to our society that the more secular we become, we'll have this scientific revolution, and everybody will be more rational. And then you fast forward that 25 years, and they've delivered on none of those promises.

[Michael Knowles]

Yeah, even the book. Hitchens wrote that book, God is Not Great, which doesn't even make that argument. That's not even the point of the book. The point is Christians have done things that I don't like. But Fast forward now, 20 years after new Atheism, Richard Dawkins is calling himself.

[Ruslan KD]

A cultural Christian and getting canceled and.

[Michael Knowles]

Getting canceled for basic biology because he saw the conclusion of the new atheism, which is Islam in his country, in the uk. Right. So, yeah, that's done. And I kind of hold out hope for Mr. O'.

Connor.

Alex, if you're watching this, you can come when I win. And Ruslan comes to Latin Massacre. You're welcome. There's a seat for you.

[Ruslan KD]

Yep.

[Michael Knowles]

There actually isn't a seat. We'll make a seat for you.

[Ad Host / Announcer]

Okay.

[Michael Knowles]

All right.

[Ruslan KD]

Yeah. All right. So now you're picking one.

[Michael Knowles]

Clear. The answers. Are ortho bros more difficult to debate than Catholics?

[Ruslan KD]

Oh, man. Oh, gosh. That is a good question.

[Michael Knowles]

I could see that. Cutting both ways, even the meaning of the question.

[Ruslan KD]

Are arthropod more difficult? Yeah, more. Okay.

[Michael Knowles]

All right.

[Ruslan KD]

Arthroprose more difficult. Can I ask for a clarifying question?

[Michael Knowles]

Yes. I've already given my answer to what you're gonna say. Yeah.

[Ruslan KD]

So how would you define difficult? Like, are they more difficult and unpleasant?

[Michael Knowles]

Not that they're on Will that too. I would say you leave the debate with the ortho bro, and you say that was a more tedious experience than the debate with the Catholic. Whether or not you won, you lost, you feel you persuaded or other.

[Ruslan KD]

Okay, you just.

[Michael Knowles]

I'm saying you leave the debate exhausted. You say that was difficult.

[Ruslan KD]

That was difficult.

[Michael Knowles]

Of course. Yeah, of course. Why?

[Ruslan KD]

Okay, this is where it gets good. So what I love about Catholics is that. And I don't know if this is official language or not official language, but you guys acknowledge doctrinal development.

[Michael Knowles]

Yes.

You can say, hey, St. John Henry Newman was a great articulator.

[Ruslan KD]

You guys would say, hey, the church is the magistrate and so on and so forth. And so stuff has developed over time, which I think is beyond reasonable to say. Yes, the apostles believed and practiced is not necessarily what churches believe today on both sides. Catholics, Protestant, Orthodox, or the real.

[Michael Knowles]

The fear of development of doctrine, which is articulated very well by John Henry Newman, who was Anglican, actually, and then he became Catholic. He was very anti Catholic. He becomes Catholic, becomes a Saint becomes a doctor of the Church. Three weeks ago, he would say that true development of doctrine is something that was always there, that was often practiced and understood, but is articulated later on or comes to a fuller understanding later on, often in response to challenges to that traditional teaching. So the way Catholics think about heresies say, we don't like heresies. They've been heresies since day one. But they're great in the sense that they allow the Church then to clearly define her teaching on Gnosticism, on the sexes, on the immaculate, all the way up to the Immaculate Conception. So that the doctrine is, you know, becomes clearer over time. The way it can be abused by liberals in the Church even is to say, well, the Church used to say that, you know, marriage is between a man and a woman, but doctrine is developed, and now it's between two guys and a billy goat. You say, well, hold on, that's not a development, that's a change. That's an innovation. That's contrary to Scripture. That's out. But the liberals do use it that way.

[Ruslan KD]

Yeah, that's helpful. I think the idea that the development is only in as good as what they actually believed. I think that would be my issue with both the orthodox and the Catholic is that when I read and I go back and I'm trying to understand polycarp, I'm trying to understand these apostles, the disciples of the apostles, Justin Martyr, Irenaeus. Yeah, I think there's a pretty big chasm between what they taught and believed and what is expressed. And what I appreciate about Catholics was doctrinal development tends to kind of acknowledge that a little bit. Whereas the Orthodox will say, no, this is the exact faith that the apostles practice.

[Michael Knowles]

Yes. So regardless of what you think about any particular doctrine, you say, I don't see that in the writings of Ignatius of Antioch. But at the very least, the Catholics will say, well, here's why you think you don't see it, and here's why I think it's here, and here's why it seems different. Whereas the Orthodox, the orthobros will say, this was always what was taught and we haven't changed to jot or tittle. I hear there's a Catholic party happening. Mind defined. John in. Hi, Isabel, nice to meet you.

[Ruslan KD]

I'm coming through for the day.

[Michael Knowles]

Please do.

[Ruslan KD]

Can I jump in?

[Michael Knowles]

Feel free to shout from the sides. That's great. I love that.

[Ruslan KD]

Wait a minute. Can I phone in Wes Huff? What is going on?

[Michael Knowles]

Actually, you can't get the bell.

[Ad Host / Announcer]

That's not fair.

[Michael Knowles]

I Promise I won't weigh in. We barred Wes Huff from the premises.

[Ruslan KD]

Actually, Wes is not allowed.

[Michael Knowles]

I thought you were going to say the reason it's more exhausting to debate the Orthobros is because there's no unity of belief. They've had these different patriarchs forever. Historically speaking. Again, there are no Orthobros in the house, so I'm not gonna be physically assaulted.

[Ruslan KD]

Oh, they're gonna clip this and destroy us.

[Michael Knowles]

Just so you know, typically in the history of the Church, going back to antiquity, challenges to doctrine, also known as heresies, tended to come from the East. Now, the Ortho bros could shoot those down, too. But a lot of these, Arianism took a lot of hold in the east, all sorts of things. Arianism also had some issues in the west, but we stamped it out that because of that, you know, with the Catholics, we can say, look, to quote St. Augustine, Rome has spoken. The issue is settled. He said that on Arianism, actually, in the east, they'd say, well, you know, Patriarch Papadopoulos said like five minutes ago that, you know, you have to have lamb in your souvlaki and not chicken. But then the other guy. No, I'm just saying, no, listen, I have a great. They have great liturgy. I'm mostly salty because I can't grow the beard, but I would be Catholic.

[Ruslan KD]

Too, if I couldn't believe it.

[Michael Knowles]

Yeah, of course they will say, well, no, actually, there's this other tradition. There's this mystical tradition that actually says something different. And so the thing that I find exhausting about debating our beloved brothers in Orthodoxy is you can't pin them down on anything. Whereas even in Antiquity and through the Middle Ages, you'd have Eastern bishops come. Before the Great Schism, you'd have Eastern bishops come. They'd all agree to something, right? And then they'd go back and the Emperor would say something different, and they'd like, kind of ignore the council. And so you can't say, well, you guys believe this, right? And they say, well, yeah, but we also kind of believe this.

[Ruslan KD]

Let me ask you this. So to kind of throw a bones for my Orthodox brothers and sisters, do you think that they have maintained a closer tradition not to the Apostolic Church, but to the three or four hundreds, when a lot of these doctrines formed, Would you acknowledge that?

[Michael Knowles]

I would go further. I would say, yes, they do have a great connection to the Apostolic Church because they have apostolic succession, because they have, generally speaking, valid sacraments, because their liturgy. I'll throw them onto the Orthodox, their Liturgy is much more beautiful than a lot of what passes for modern liturgy and Catholicism. So, no, listen, I'm being tough on them. I actually do have a great deal of respect for the Orthodox. But it's the point of unity. There are four marks of the church, one holy, catholic and apostolic in the Nicene Creed. And so, yes, they've got the apostolic, sure, let's say it's holy. You know, they've got the claim to some kind of universality, but where's the unity? You know, the unity. This is really where the primacy of Rome comes in. But that was always a point between us and the East.

[Ruslan KD]

Well, they would say that you guys are the ones that schismatic.

[Michael Knowles]

They say all sorts of stuff in Greek. Who even speaks that?

[Ruslan KD]

You know, you just wave it off.

[Michael Knowles]

Yeah. Hold on one second.

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Knowles ruse lines up okay. Yes.

[Ruslan KD]

All right. Do you have any idea where the Pope and the Vatican as a whole stand on the death penalty, global warming and illegal immigration?

[Michael Knowles]

And you have to guess how I would answer, yes.

[Ruslan KD]

Do you have any idea where the Pope and the Vatican as a whole stand on the death penalty, global warming, and illegal immigration? Yes, yes.

[Michael Knowles]

Yeah, I know where the Vatican stands. And again, it's kind of mixing those issues together because the death penalty is a little different than, say, global warming. Global warming is a kind of prudential matter for the civil authority that is not entirely within the competency of the Holy See. Death penalty is a little different. And so for the entire history of the Church, death penalty was fine under certain circumstances.

[Ruslan KD]

Church would today say, like burning heretics of the state.

[Michael Knowles]

Yeah, yeah, we need to bring a little more of that back, frankly. But that's a topic for another time. But in principle, capital punishment is okay under certain circumstances. So the Church would say today, well, that teaching remains true. The death penalty is okay under certain circumstances. The question is over a prudential matter, are those circumstances satisfied today? Because the death penalty comes from Book of Genesis, right? Whosoever sheds the blood of man, by man shall his blood be shed. For man is made in the image and likeness of God. Because of human dignity, we have the death penalty. And St. Paul says civil authority doesn't bear the sword in vain. That was clear enough. Some popes carried it out, including Blessed Pius IX, who oversaw 500 executions in the Papal States. John Paul II says, yeah, it's fine in principle, but I oppose it practically because modern society allows us to protect society from the perpetrators. So you don't need to carry it out. Today, Pope Benedict said much the same thing after JP2. He said, look, reasonable minds can disagree on this, but practically, I oppose it. Pope Francis comes in and he says, the death penalty is morally inadmissible. This is in the catechism. So this is not an ex cathedral teaching on faith and morals, you know, without error officially pronounced. This is just. He says it's morally inadmissible. He doesn't say it's intrinsically evil, because he can't, because that would Contradict Scripture and 2000 years of church teaching. So he says, morally, what is that word? It's a little dubious. Pope Leo has basically maintained that and says we work toward the abolition of the death penalty. Okay, again, that's a prudential practical matter, unlike what was the other saying?

[Ruslan KD]

It is a dogma, officially, certainly not a dogma.

[Michael Knowles]

It couldn't possibly be. But so we can say, yes, we understand what the Vatican is saying about this today, but we see it in light of tradition and scripture and 2000 years. And so some of my Catholic friends. I was speaking with the young lovely Isabelle here about this earlier. Some of them, they fall into two errors on this one. Modern people, they don't care at all about what the Pope says. But there is a deference to Rome going back to antiquity, going back to the apostolic age. As far as I'm concerned, you got to care what the Pope says. Maybe it's just because I'm Italian. You don't need to concern yourself with what the Pope ordered for lunch. Okay? You don't need to. The Chad medieval peasant was not updating Twitter all the time. What did the Pope say to some reporter today? It's not. You can have what I call a Mediterranean nonchalance. When the Pope says something that is, you know, prudential, political, in my mind, you don't need to stay up all night worrying about it.

[Ruslan KD]

Okay, Two follow up questions. Yes, it is fair. I love how nuanced you are on all of this. This is amaz. Sound like a liberal A little bit.

[Michael Knowles]

Hey, a disciple of John Henry Newman.

[Ruslan KD]

Fair enough. So could you see from the Protestant perspective and from the Orthodox perspective how there's been many contradictions? Or specifically on that one, let me just not say many and be general. But that seems from the outside looking in of like, man, there was a lot of executions and now it's like, not so much. Can you see how that's a contradiction? And then I have a follow up.

[Michael Knowles]

I don't think it's a contradiction, but it's kind of two layers of.

[Ruslan KD]

I know you don't think it's a contradiction. I'm saying, can you see from our.

[Michael Knowles]

Perspective, I totally cal. Because there's this kind of flattening, basically of these two layers. Doctrine, dogma, perennial teachings of the Church, and a kind of practical weighing in on politics. There's always been. Religious authorities have always had something to say about politics. It was pronounced in the west because the Western Roman Empire collapsed. And so the Pope had this unifying, even political authority. But he's dealing with, in some cases, Gothic kings, some of whom were heretics, Arians, whatever. In the east, they always had much more centralized political authority in the person of the Eastern emperor. So because of that, I don't know, there's a kind of. We recognize a distinction between the secular and the religious that they play on one another. But there, I mean, even Dante wrote a whole beautiful piece about this in Monarchia, about the distinction between the two. It's not all the same, but it can seem that way. If the Pope is talking about environmental policy in some modern nation. Yeah.

[Ruslan KD]

The two categories are doctrine and dogma. And the second category is, what was it like?

[Michael Knowles]

Political issues. Political issues. Just modern political issues.

[Ruslan KD]

So death penalty, bad political issues.

[Michael Knowles]

Now what if.

[Ruslan KD]

Paint a picture for you. What if all of a sudden the Catholic Church comes out and says, yeah, we know doctrine dogma is like same sex couples, not good, but just go ahead and let them get married. We're already blessing the unions. Go ahead and let them get married and gay marriage, it's cool. Would you, would that then contradict the doctrine and dogma? Would you know, a famous Catholic debater said if the Catholic Church ever allowed gay marriage, that would completely invalidate the entire Catholic Church. Would you agree to that? How would you feel about if it was gay marriage?

[Michael Knowles]

I'm reasonably confident that that could not happen.

[Ruslan KD]

Okay, what if it did? What if it would invalidate the Catholic Church?

[Michael Knowles]

No, it wouldn't invalidate the Catholic Church. It would mean that some prelate or someone was spouting heresy, you know, which has happened over the years. But it. No, I wouldn't. That would not supersede clear scriptural teaching and 2000 years of magisterial authority. It wouldn't happen. Now the reason why I'm confident that that would not happen is even just looking historically, a lot of other ecclesial communities have spun off and they say they just.

[Ruslan KD]

I like how you call us ecclesial communities.

[Michael Knowles]

Ecclesial communities, yes.

[Ruslan KD]

You got our own churches, but you're.

[Michael Knowles]

Like cute little ecclesiastical part of the mystical body of Christ, albeit not in the fullness of Christ.

[Ruslan KD]

Now you sound like an orthodox, but.

[Michael Knowles]

But, you know, Martin Luther, I don't think would have been totally down with, you know, Steve and Bill getting married. I don't think Zwingli or Calvin would be into that either.

[Ruslan KD]

Agreed.

[Michael Knowles]

And yet there are some people who would call themselves Lutherans today who support that. Obviously the Anglican Church supports that. Plenty of, even not plenty of non denominational churches are funded.

[Ruslan KD]

We got a name for those folks. We call them heretics.

[Michael Knowles]

Heretics. I was gonna say, is it a foolish.

[Ruslan KD]

We don't do stuff with them. We don't invite heretics to our events. We don't partner with heretics. We're like, they're bad.

[Michael Knowles]

But I would say you look at the church, the Catholic Church, there are, there are plenty of liberal priests, some of whom go on tv, who seem to push the envelope. I don't want to name these Jesuits, but they seem to push the envelope. And yet even they don't Go that far. And so the fact that the Catholic Church has survived through modernity, despite all of the problems of this fallen world, with the men who run the show, to me that's an evidence that we're actually. I feel pretty good about it. I would be willing to wager every dollar to my name that at no point ever will the Catholic Church redefine marriage. Say, and I don't know that I would say that about other communities.

[Ruslan KD]

All right, that's a big wager.

[Michael Knowles]

That's another wager.

[Ruslan KD]

Should we do another wager?

[Michael Knowles]

Yeah, yeah, we might. I know. We might not be around to prove it.

[Ruslan KD]

People. Someone's gonna Google your net worth after this. Be like, okay, that's good.

[Michael Knowles]

I'm also gonna need a raise from the Daily. All right, I gotta sneak out, Michael, But I can't resist a good theological debate. Yeah, you're leaving? You're leaving? I gotta go film other things. What about when the hard ones come up and I need to phone a friend? I know, I'm sorry. Maybe I'll just get my phone. I'm up. You're up.

[Ruslan KD]

Who's winning?

[Michael Knowles]

Clear the. I think we're tied.

[Ruslan KD]

We're tied. Okay, okay. I cleared mine.

[Michael Knowles]

Now, before we get to this prompt, we have to watch this video. All right?

[Forest Frank]

Truth is in the puttin. I've been putting in the rougher work that they don't wanna do. That's why I got the upper hand advantage Feeling like I'm at the last Supper Never eating vegan beef got me through the summer Eating more chicken Cause the cows are living longer Going to the gym but my mind is getting stronger Indie Jones Better than being owned by any corporation of artists who were silly clowns. I'm on my own.

[Ruslan KD]

All right.

[Michael Knowles]

Is rap music cultural appropriation?

[Ruslan KD]

Wait, wait, hold on.

[Michael Knowles]

Is.

[Ruslan KD]

Is rap music cultural appropriation?

[Michael Knowles]

Yes. Not fit for liturgy? That's not the question. Is it cultural appropriation?

[Ruslan KD]

Cultural appropriation of what? Like, is it mixing genres and stealing from any other genres?

[Michael Knowles]

Is it essentially Armenian or is it something else? I have to answer your. Are you a cultural.

[Ruslan KD]

I don't understand that.

[Michael Knowles]

Are you an appropriator?

[Ruslan KD]

Am I an appropriator?

[Michael Knowles]

Well, I don't.

[Ruslan KD]

That's your word.

[Michael Knowles]

I would say appropriata. Appropriate.

[Ruslan KD]

Yeah. It's rap music. I think the question would be better. Like, are white dudes making rap music culturally appropriating?

[Michael Knowles]

And are Armenians white? I mean, that's a whole separate rap.

[Ruslan KD]

So is that what they're.

[Michael Knowles]

Yes. Are you appropriate?

[Ruslan KD]

Is A non artist.

[Michael Knowles]

Yes.

[Ruslan KD]

Who is making.

[Michael Knowles]

You're literally from the Caucasus.

[Ruslan KD]

I'm a real caucus.

[Michael Knowles]

You're as Caucasian as they get.

[Ruslan KD]

Yeah, yeah. The rest of you guys are frauds.

[Michael Knowles]

Yes, yes. And the Sicilians have always been a little African. Okay, what would you say? Is it cultural appropriation?

[Ruslan KD]

That's a great question.

[Michael Knowles]

All right, I got it wrong. I said. Yes. I said it is cultural. How is it not cultural appropriation?

[Ruslan KD]

Because I think the beautiful part about cultural is that you're blending and breeding together different aspects that are creating in America what we would call a melting pot.

[Michael Knowles]

Therefore, you are appropriating some other culture.

[Ruslan KD]

You're using cultural.

[Michael Knowles]

Give me my point back.

[Ruslan KD]

You're using cultural.

[Michael Knowles]

He just said in his explanation that I was right, but I'll still.

[Ruslan KD]

I think it's because cultural appropriation would be a negative connotation.

[Michael Knowles]

It hasn't. I like it, though. I think appropriating culture.

[Ruslan KD]

So when I think of cultural appropriation, I think of, like. I think this is. This would get me canceled. I think of rappers who will use gospel music and elements of gospel music to create a feel while rapping about the most debaucherous, interesting, awful things. So I think that's actually appropriating Christian culture or, like, a music video. There was a priest that I actually met in New York who allowed a music video to be shot in one of his churches.

[Michael Knowles]

Sabrina Carpenter, right?

[Ruslan KD]

Yes.

[Michael Knowles]

Who I actually like. But that was.

[Ruslan KD]

Yeah. And I liked the priest that I met. He was the sweetest guy. I'm not gonna name check him here. Maybe I'll make a video about it later. And he used the church, and I think, like, that's cultural appropriation. So I take it as, like, a negative term.

[Michael Knowles]

You're saying it can only be negative?

[Ruslan KD]

That's the way I heard it. Yeah. That's the way I heard it. Versus seeing it as, like, a positive of, like, hey, we're gonna create. We're gonna take Japanese and Chinese food and create Asian fusion.

[Michael Knowles]

Appropriation. Not to be too glib about it, but, you know, Scripture tells us Christianity is appropriative. You know, there's neither Jew nor Greek. Right. We're all one. And so, like, I agree it has this negative connotation. I think it's good, though. I mean, America has always kind of thrived on cultural appropriation, going back to the Mayflower. And I think it's good. But to your point, you want to appropriate good things.

Yes.

Now, what do you think? Like, you mentioned the rappers who Bring gospel into their stuff. Pre Heil Hitler, Kanye would do that, I think, in a pretty good way. I actually, I have a kind of esoteric take on his Hitler song too. But when he would do, you know, like Jesus Walks, like that was a good song. I'm glad he was rapping about that. His Jesus Is King album. I thought that was. It's not my speed, but I thought.

It was good generally.

So it's okay if they do it like in that case in Jesus Walks, was that a good use of cultural appropriation?

[Ruslan KD]

So Jesus. Well, Jesus Walks is like a, I mean that's a classic, amazing record that it's difficult for me to detach my emotional, you know, appreciation for that record versus the standard of it. So I think when someone is authentically sharing their experience the way Kanye did on Jesus Is King or on the Donda album, I don't think there's anything wrong with that. Cuz I think Kanye was going through his journey with Jesus and trying to figure it out and wrestling and unfortunately had some setbacks in that that I think he's trying to find his way back to, to, to the Lord. I'd like to believe that.

[Michael Knowles]

Yeah, yeah, I think so.

[Ruslan KD]

Versus, hey, I'm going to take this, this, these chords, I'm going to take this style of music and then just rap about craziness. And that does happen where they're taking stuff that's, you know, overtly Christian sounding and they're wrapping themes and concepts that are incongruent with said value. So let me, let me. Can I ask you a follow up question?

[Michael Knowles]

Yes.

[Ruslan KD]

Okay, so there's a lot of railing between. So you, you like cultural appropriation as.

[Michael Knowles]

A positive if it's good, if you're appropriating a good culture.

[Ruslan KD]

But then what's the difference between that and what? The issue that a lot of folks have now, especially on the right, is like multiculturalism. Because when I hear multiculturalism, I think of what you described as good cultural appropriation. Yet. But multiculturalism seems to mean something different now. Or have I always misunderstood?

[Michael Knowles]

No, I think multiculturalism is kind of the opposite of cultural appropriation in the sense that it's saying, look, black people need to celebrate Kwanzaa. Christmas is for the white kids, Hanukkah's for the Jewish kids, and Kwanzaa's for the black kids. And I thought, wait a second, aren't blacks Christian? I've met plenty of Christian black people and they say, no, no, no. Basically you're fixed in your culture, which Is itself.

[Ruslan KD]

And all these toads just have to coexist together.

[Michael Knowles]

Yes. But without really sharing anything.

[Ruslan KD]

Got it.

[Michael Knowles]

Without ever giving anything up. Without ever taking anything on. So to me, it's like this. There's the image of the melting pot, for better or worse. And the multiculturalism is the image of the salad bowl. The tomato doesn't take on parts of the cucumber, but in that beef stew, man, it's all kind of getting jumbled up in it. Right. So the libs have obviously pushed the. The multiculturalism thing. But I say no, no, let's appropriate even more. Let's appropriate. Well, if there is a good part to appropriate from rap music, I guess there is some good beats or whatever, then you appropriate that part and you get rid of the, you know, gang shoes and womanizing or whatever.

[Ruslan KD]

And that's happened. That's happened within Christian music. I'm not sure how much you're keeping up with Christian hip hop guys like Indy Tribe, guys like John Keats.

[Michael Knowles]

I played on the ukulele game.

[Ruslan KD]

No big deal. I would love to hear you play. Forest Frank, you know, is doing a lot of amazing components of hip hop music in his art and is. I mean, he's doing arenas, Selling out arenas.

[Michael Knowles]

Yeah, yeah.

[Ruslan KD]

And it fuses all these beautiful elements together that I think is awesome. Now, do you think rap music is music?

[Michael Knowles]

It can be.

Okay.

I think for it to be music, there has to be some element to it beyond the percussive.

[Ruslan KD]

Yeah. Melody.

[Michael Knowles]

There has to be at least a melody. Something vaguely.

[Ruslan KD]

I think people would agree with that.

[Michael Knowles]

Yes. Though I'm with Play doh. I think we have to be very careful about music. So I'm not like, bring it on, man. And we'll all just. Music, more than any other art form, can bypass the reason straight to the sensitive soul. And so you gotta be very careful what you're putting into your ears. And so a lot of. And that's especially true with percussive music, which is why it's hard to be brainwashed by Brahms. And you can be brainwashed by some rappers, you know, by Puff Daddy.

[Ruslan KD]

Absolutely.

[Michael Knowles]

Yeah.

[Ruslan KD]

You reference Puff Daddy.

[Michael Knowles]

Okay.

That's awesome.

Yeah.

I never.

I'm salty because I never got an invite to a white party or a freak off. And I'm glad I didn't want to.

[Ruslan KD]

Go, but praise God.

[Michael Knowles]

Yeah, it's true. But I was. It's. You want to be invited?

[Ruslan KD]

You think rap music is music? Take that. It can be Shapiro.

[Michael Knowles]

It's some kind of music. All right. Yeah. Yeah, but he's now, you know, He's a number one Billboard charting rapper.

[Ruslan KD]

Yeah. With Dr. Dreidel. Tom McDonald.

[Michael Knowles]

Tom McDonald. Yeah. Dr. Dreidel. And I'm a little salty about that, too. Okay.

[Ruslan KD]

But it's all right.

[Michael Knowles]

Okay.

[Ruslan KD]

All right, you ready?

[Michael Knowles]

Yes.

[Ruslan KD]

It's on me. Video or prompt?

[Michael Knowles]

Okay.

[Ruslan KD]

Okay, this is interesting.

[Forest Frank]

So I broke my back exactly two weeks ago. Is today day 14. Got an X ray and a CAT scan. It showed that I had multiple fractures, could not move an inch without excruciating pain. I wake up today, forget to put on my back brace. Just start doing the morning I pick bode up. And then I realized, wait, I'm not wearing my brace. What is going on? I'm wearing my brace right now. For a precaution, order an urgent X ray. Go get the X ray. I have complete healing in my back. I have no fractures in my back. No sign of a fracture in my back. So praise God. We saw a miracle.

[Ruslan KD]

Did we just see a miracle? So I get to do, I guess, first what your answer's gonna be, or do I wait?

[Michael Knowles]

You can. If you think you know me better than I know myself. Maybe you do.

[Ruslan KD]

I'm gonna read your face here.

[Michael Knowles]

Okay.

[Ruslan KD]

Did we see. Did we just see a miracle? Oh, man, this is hard. Cause you're Catholic. I say yes.

[Michael Knowles]

I want. You say yes, I'll give it to you. Because it's not within my competency to declare a miracle. However, if you say gun to my head, you have to bet you know, you're going to the conference. This is on. I would say, yeah, I bet it probably was. If it is not explainable by natural means. And this guy is saying, you know, we prayed for this or whatever, you know, we've.

[Ruslan KD]

That's Forest Frank.

[Michael Knowles]

That's my friend, Forest Frank. Yeah. Yeah, I remember when that happened. I would say, yeah, good chance. It's a miracle. Miracles happen. You know, it's just.

[Ruslan KD]

Even in ecclesial gatherings.

[Michael Knowles]

Even to Protestants. Even to Protestants. Even to Protestants. Look, even I would say if a miracle can happen to a Hindu, I guess it could happen to a Protestant, too.

[Ruslan KD]

Well, thank you for that. I'll take it.

[Michael Knowles]

No, and also because, you know, a miracle is a working of God's grace, supernatural grace. So it's not, you know, I don't get to say, well, no, I don't want a miracle. And at first, Frank seems like a nice guy, but I don't get to say, well, I don't like Johnny. I don't. Because God is Not working in a way that I have prescribed. He's not allowed to do that. You don't want to tell God he's not allowed to do things. He will prove you wrong.

[Ruslan KD]

Yeah, that's good. And I think I probably get a lot of flack from some of my Protestant brethren who get mad when I acknowledge miracles in the Catholic Church and miracles in the Orthodox Church.

[Michael Knowles]

Pretty good.

[Ruslan KD]

I'm glad we agree there.

[Michael Knowles]

Okay. Of course. David, are we gonna pull up any Catholic miracles? No, they're all miracles from God. So they're all. Okay, I'm up. This is. Oh, gosh. Are you ready for this? It's the rapid fire round. 3 questions, 30 seconds, no times to outthink each other. Let's go. They change the colors. That's how you know we're in the rapid fire right now. Am I lo. That's bad. I'm losing at one to three. But even though.

[Ruslan KD]

Guess you're coming to the Blessed God.

[Michael Knowles]

We're going. There was the one where he. Anyway, that's fine. That's fine. I'm not. Look, it's good if I lose, I win because I get to go to the Bless God summit.

[Ruslan KD]

All right.

[Michael Knowles]

Are the questions written? Oh, yes, they are. Okay.

[Ruslan KD]

This is where I fumble my lead. Huh?

[Michael Knowles]

Okay. Is the Annabelle doll actually demon possessed? No.

[Ruslan KD]

No.

[Michael Knowles]

Is the gateway process, which is. I've never heard of. I don't know what that is. Is it just witchcraft for feds? Yes. All right. I don't even know what that is. And I got that right. That was good.

Dang it.

Is hustle culture antithetical to Christian culture?

[Ruslan KD]

Ah, these are too. Is it too easy?

[Michael Knowles]

Yes. Yeah. Hustle culture. He just took the lead. Can I ask. That was good. Well, you might get it back on your end. Is what the only one? I don't know about Annabelle or whatever, and obviously not.

[Ruslan KD]

Like, I don't think an inanimate object.

[Michael Knowles]

Inanimate object cannot be demon possessed. Unless it's, like, Chucky or whatever. And then gateway. What is the gateway process?

[Ruslan KD]

The gateway process is this real interesting CIA operative where they started using psychics and different experiments of tapping into the spiritual world.

[Michael Knowles]

Oh, yeah, I've read about this.

[Ruslan KD]

Yeah. Super trippy. It's all documented. You could pull it up in CIA documents and they were able to, like, track down certain information in the core.

[Michael Knowles]

That's the thing. It probably, like, kind of worked.

[Ruslan KD]

Yeah, it did. It wasn't like 100 accurate, but there were times where they'd get certain information.

[Michael Knowles]

Yeah.

[Ruslan KD]

Okay.

[Michael Knowles]

I totally buy that hustle culture is that, like, I'm going to get up on my grind. I'm going to, you know, I'm going to go get that green, get them stacks, whatever.

[Ruslan KD]

I don't know. Your best rapper impersonation again.

[Michael Knowles]

Thanks. Thank you. I'm training. I love my debut. Why is it antithetical to Christian culture? I agree.

[Ruslan KD]

Yeah. I think what's antithetical is what is your utmost aim? What are you shooting for? And I think the beautiful part about following Jesus is Jesus becomes the thing we're aiming at. And as Jesus is who we're aiming at, that is going to be contextual to where we are. So, man, if you're in North Korea or China, aiming for Jesus is gonna cost you probably everything. Whereas in the west, aiming for Jesus, trying to live Jesus ways, trying to apply what he's done in your heart to live it out. I think it's generally not always because you can still get hit by a car, cancer can still come, still be assassinated. Yeah, you can still be assassinated, but generally speaking will lead to flourishing. Generally speaking.

[Michael Knowles]

Okay, that's a fair point. And also I like it because, you know, the hustle culture makes an ultimate end of an instrumental good. So, like, money can be. It's not that money is evil. The love of money is. Right. But it's like you can use money in wonderful ways, charitable ways, take care of your family. But it has to be for something. It really has to be for the glory of God. Right down to the martini. Martini is for the glory of God inasmuch as it facilitates a good conversation with somebody, you know. Right. So. Okay. All right. That's good. So I took the lead. You're up.

[Ruslan KD]

Gosh darn.

[Michael Knowles]

Here we go.

[Ruslan KD]

All right. Rapid fire. What is Sola Scriptura? A recipe for Eamonn Hillman style TikTok theology.

[Michael Knowles]

I don't even know who him and Hillman is.

[Ruslan KD]

I don't either. Okay. Gotta clear that. Okay.

[Michael Knowles]

Yeah, for sure. Okay.

[Ruslan KD]

Okay. Are most Hollywood elites involved in the Illuminati or Freemasonry? Okay. We would care a lot more about the Armenian Azerbaijanian conflict if Armenia had more oil and lobbyists. Oh, gosh. I gotta get one of these.

[Michael Knowles]

Right.

[Ruslan KD]

Okay.

[Michael Knowles]

Darn. Yes, though. Yes. Obviously, when you have lobbyists, it is. But the actual reason I'm as pro Armenia as it is possible for an American to be. But the actual hard reason why were not more into it is because they're allies with Russia and Iran. And so from a grand strategic standpoint it's hard to support Armenia, but I think the US Government should, out of Christian charity and fidelity. But anyway. Okay. Darn.

[Ruslan KD]

All right. How do we do with the other ones?

[Michael Knowles]

Yeah, you got them. All right. Yes. Yeah, you got them. All right. Okay.

[Ruslan KD]

All right.

[Michael Knowles]

Okay.

[Ruslan KD]

This is great.

[Michael Knowles]

It's time for the final round.

All right.

The prompt will be read. We will both lock in our answers, then move our glasses to yes or no to see if we can read each other's minds. Not through witchcraft. This round is worth double points. It could change everything. Right now, the score is 4, me, 6 you. Now, the way we're going to do it here, I'm going to put my drink on my name. You're going to put your drink on your name? All right.

[Ruslan KD]

I'll take a sip first. Is that okay?

[Michael Knowles]

That's good. Pure gin, I think, right? Yep.

[Ruslan KD]

It's actually vodka. It's the Russian side.

[Michael Knowles]

Okay. So we read the prompt. We lock in our answers first. On what we would answer for ourselves.

[Ruslan KD]

What we would answer for ourselves.

[Michael Knowles]

Yes. And then we move each other's drink.

[Ruslan KD]

Okay.

[Michael Knowles]

To where we think the other person would land.

[Ruslan KD]

Okay.

[Michael Knowles]

Okay.

[Ruslan KD]

All right.

[Michael Knowles]

All right.

[Ruslan KD]

So do we both have our card?

[Michael Knowles]

No. There'll be two.

[Ruslan KD]

There'll be two.

[Michael Knowles]

There'LL be two. Okay, you leave that there. Leave that there. I'm sorry. Okay. Have you ever seen a demon manifest in person?

Yes.

In person. Not counting videos, Right? In person.

[Ruslan KD]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Michael Knowles]

Okay.

[Ruslan KD]

Your poker face is killing me.

[Michael Knowles]

You're gonna say, and you gotta move mine. Where you think I'm gonna go?

[Ruslan KD]

Oh, okay.

[Michael Knowles]

Okay. Ready? One, two, three. Correct.

[Ruslan KD]

Okay.

[Michael Knowles]

I got it wrong. It was 50. 50. I was gonna say. No. Oh, man. My wife's gonna be so angry when I leave town again in March. Thank you. Okay. No, you have. You haven't.

[Ruslan KD]

So. I have not in person. Yeah, I have not. I have friends that do a lot of the Deliverance stuff, and they have shown me videos and they have talked about it extensively. And I believe demonization is real. I believe it could happen. I think it does happen. A lot of what we're dealing with is stuff in the unseen realm manifesting itself in our reality. I have never seen it in person.

[Michael Knowles]

Have you ever heard one?

[Ruslan KD]

Like, in person?

[Michael Knowles]

Yeah.

[Ruslan KD]

No. No, I have. This is gonna be really sad. You ready for this? I have tried to cast out a demon once.

[Michael Knowles]

Did it work?

[Ruslan KD]

No. I think it was just a dude with schizophrenia.

[Michael Knowles]

Yeah. Okay. Okay. But it could.

[Ruslan KD]

We really tried, though. And then I was like, I think you Just need to take your meds, dude.

[Michael Knowles]

Yeah, this is. I've never been involved in an exorcism or anything like that, but I do have friends who have done it and exorcist friends, too. And, you know, the first thing they do is they basically check for mental illnesses.

[Ruslan KD]

Yes.

[Michael Knowles]

It's kind of like with another kind, like a miracle, you'd first say, is there a natural explanation? Okay. You exhaust all the natural diagnoses. Okay. Maybe this is something else. You ever have sleep paralysis?

[Ruslan KD]

Yes.

[Michael Knowles]

So I think sleep paralysis is a medical condition that's not necessarily always attributable to the supernatural. I might have heard a demon once. I might have heard one. It was. I've only experienced sleep paralysis.

[Ruslan KD]

I didn't think about. I didn't think about it.

[Michael Knowles]

With sleep paralysis now, the answer would still be the same because you don't see well, I guess you could, but I didn't. I think one time I might have heard one.

[Ruslan KD]

Yeah, I'm with you. Yeah, I'm with you. I. I used to have sleep paralysis.

[Michael Knowles]

Really bad. Did you? Yeah.

[Ruslan KD]

And not anymore. Yeah, because someone casted all the demons out of me.

[Michael Knowles]

Maybe. Yeah. Like legitimately. I mean.

[Ruslan KD]

That was a joke.

[Michael Knowles]

Yeah.

[Ruslan KD]

Yeah, that was a joke.

[Michael Knowles]

It could be. You know, they. And I was just. I was at a baptism the other day, Godfather to another kid. And, you know, the traditional rite of baptism involves multiple exorcisms in baptism. Yeah.

[Ruslan KD]

Oh, wow.

[Michael Knowles]

So you cast out the demons and then you put a little salt on their tongue. Sal sapiensia. It's great because little babies have. It's the first time they taste salt, and it's like they're not reacting to the demons, I don't think. I think it's mostly the salt. Okay.

[Ruslan KD]

How many kids have you godfathered?

[Michael Knowles]

I am a godfather of five kids, to my knowledge. I think only five. This is where my rapper identity is.

[Ad Host / Announcer]

I was gonna say.

[Ruslan KD]

Like, whoa.

[Michael Knowles]

It's eight two. There's no coming back from.

[Ruslan KD]

Right?

[Michael Knowles]

Yeah. There's no. Okay. All right.

[Ruslan KD]

Well, all right. I'm asking you the last question.

[Michael Knowles]

Yes. This is. I'm gonna lose anyway, but maybe I can finish my dream.

[Ruslan KD]

Okay. Okay. This is good. Are the pyramids remnants of Egypt, Remnants of pre flood technology? I said no.

[Michael Knowles]

Why did. I guess it doesn't matter. All right, all right. It doesn't matter. He's just getting. Now he's talking.

[Ruslan KD]

I ruined it.

[Michael Knowles]

All right, now you have to guess how so I would answer. Give me my points. Oh, they. It's kind of you think it's pre flood technology? That's a cheap answer. They literally are remnants of pre flood technology because they were made using technology. Oh, no, shoot. I was reading that as ancient technology.

[Ruslan KD]

Yes.

[Michael Knowles]

So basically, were they pre flood is the question. Were they built pre flood?

[Ruslan KD]

Right.

[Michael Knowles]

Well, I want the points anyway, so I'll say yes. But I'm a little more agnostic on that question. You don't think so, though? You think flood happened, then they built the pyramids? Yeah. Why do you say that?

[Ruslan KD]

Because I'm a Protestant and I just read the Bible in a linear fashion, and I don't have any magistrates or popes that tell me otherwise.

[Michael Knowles]

Where are the pyramids in the Bible? Hold on, I want to look into. Because, you know, there's a strange fact, which is that Cleopatra lived closer in time to the building of the Bass Pro Shop pyramid than she did to the building of the Great Pyramid of Giza. Even by historical. Yes, but you don't think. You don't think there's any world in which the pyramids are much older than we think they are?

[Ruslan KD]

I think it's possible. Yeah. I think it's possible. And you're right. The scriptures don't describe the pyramids.

[Michael Knowles]

There's no book of the pyramids.

Yeah, there's no book.

[Ruslan KD]

I think whenever I read Egypt, all the Christian movies I saw make me think that the Israelites were building the pyramids.

[Ad Host / Announcer]

Yeah.

[Michael Knowles]

Okay. All right.

[Ruslan KD]

That's slaves. And so that's not in there. You're right.

[Michael Knowles]

Okay. All right.

[Ruslan KD]

That's me getting away from sources.

[Michael Knowles]

Do I get. So what do we. Okay, final score. I still lose.

[Ruslan KD]

Yeah.

[Michael Knowles]

Four to six. That means I'm going to your conference.

[Ruslan KD]

You're going to my conference.

[Michael Knowles]

All right, that's great. That's a win. As far as I'm concerned.

[Ruslan KD]

A win for the Protestant.

[Michael Knowles]

That's a win. We needed one. It's devastating.

[Ruslan KD]

It's devastating.

[Michael Knowles]

Ever since the 16th century, you guys are racking up dubs. Go get Ruslan's new book, Godly Unlocking the Full Potential.

[Ruslan KD]

Unlocking.

[Michael Knowles]

As I said, unlocking. Oh, they said unblocking, not unblock. Unblocking. Unblock him on social media and get the full potential of your time, talent and treasure. And check him out on YouTube @ruslankd. I will see you next time on yes or no. You can applaud Jeb Bush, Please clap.

[Ruslan KD]

That was great.

[Michael Knowles]

Like many of you out there, I enjoy shooting guns in my free time and in my busy time.

Now. I thought I had it pretty good.

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