"Don't Be A Turkey Person" Michael Knowles & Oscar-Winner Bill Courtney

Summary

Podcast Summary: The Michael Knowles Show – "Don't Be A Turkey Person" with Bill Courtney

Release Date: November 28, 2024

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Introduction

In this compelling episode of The Michael Knowles Show, host Michael Knowles engages in a profound conversation with Bill Courtney, an Oscar-winning coach and successful entrepreneur. The discussion delves deep into Courtney's personal journey, his philanthropic endeavors, and the ethical considerations surrounding true charity. Central to their dialogue is the intriguing concept of the "turkey person," a metaphorical critique of self-serving philanthropy.

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1. Bill Courtney's Personal Journey (00:31 - 03:27)

Bill Courtney opens up about his challenging upbringing and remarkable ascent to success. Growing up in Memphis, Courtney faced significant adversity:

• Early Life Struggles: "Dad left home when I was 4. Mom did the best she could, worked hard, but was a bad chooser of mates. I had five fathers. My fourth one shot at me down a hallway, had to dive out a window one night to save myself." (01:22)

• Overcoming Adversity: Despite growing up in a lower socioeconomic environment and experiencing family instability, Courtney built a thriving business. Starting with $17,000, he now oversees an $80 million enterprise operating in 42 countries.

• Dual Careers: Balancing entrepreneurship with a passion for coaching, Courtney highlights his 33-year tenure as a football coach, a role inspired by the positive male figures he encountered during his youth. His dedication culminated in significant achievements, including witnessing the transformation of a struggling football team and even walking the red carpet at the Academy Awards due to a related film project.

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2. The Genesis of Courtney's Philanthropy (03:27 - 06:02)

Michael Knowles probes into what inspired Courtney to give back beyond his business success. Courtney attributes his philanthropic spirit to his desire to provide his children with opportunities he lacked:

• Desire to Create Opportunities: "I wanted my children to have opportunities and things available to them that I didn't as a child." (04:05)

• Belief in Giving Back: Recognizing the blessings he received, including a successful marriage and supportive coaches, Courtney emphasizes the importance of reciprocating through meaningful actions rather than superficial gestures.

• Influence of Coaches: The life lessons from his football coaches—values like hard work, discipline, and integrity—shaped his approach to both business and philanthropy.

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3. Understanding the "Turkey Person" Concept (06:02 - 12:54)

The heart of the episode centers on defining and exploring the implications of being a "turkey person."

• Definition: A "turkey person" refers to individuals who engage in charitable acts for self-serving reasons, such as seeking personal validation or social acclaim, rather than genuinely aiming to help others.

• Case Study: Courtney shares a pivotal moment when he sought advice on motivating his team to embrace core values. His assistant coach challenged him:

  "Are you doing this because you genuinely care about us, or is it to make yourself feel good or exalt yourself among your peers?" (06:05)

• Self-Reflection on Motives: Courtney admits feeling anger and frustration upon realizing his own potential motivations for seeking recognition through his charitable efforts. This introspection led him to reevaluate the authenticity of his actions.

• Authentic Philanthropy vs. Tokenism:

  • Authentic Philanthropy: "Philanthropy is about helping another person for the value of that other person, not for yourself." (06:05)

  • Tokenistic Acts: Acts performed for personal gain result in superficial support that lacks genuine impact, as recipients quickly dismiss the giver's intentions.

• Long-Term Impact: True servant leadership, motivated by genuine care and consistency, fosters meaningful change and empowers individuals, whereas self-serving charity fails to create lasting differences.

• Quotes Highlighting Key Points:

  • "If you were doing it for the latter, the people will take what you have to offer and they will say, yes or no, sir. Yes, ma'am, no, ma'am, and smile at you." (06:05)

  • "If we will be consistent and be motivated by the very people we are trying to serve... then we avoid being a turkey person and true servant leadership happens and amazing things occur." (06:05)

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4. Insights and Key Takeaways (11:05 - 12:54)

The conversation culminates in actionable insights and reflections on the nature of true love and service:

• Perception of Charity: "They can tell 100% don't think poor people are dumb." (11:05) – Emphasizing that genuine charity respects the intelligence and dignity of those being helped.

• Advanced Understanding: "In some ways, they're a hell of a lot more astute than you and I are." (11:13) – Acknowledging the wisdom and perceptiveness of those who receive help, countering paternalistic attitudes.

• Uncommon Service: To make a real difference, Courtney advises being uncommon in one's philanthropic approach—serving for the genuine good of others without seeking personal accolades.

• Definition of Love: Michael articulates a classical view of love as selfless:

  "Love is willing the good of another for their own sake, not willing the good of another so that you get a trophy that you can put on your wall or something like that." (11:36)

• Resources for Further Engagement:

  • Movie Mentioned: "Undefeated is on Amazon Prime." (12:11)

  • Book Reference: Courtney's book, "Against the Grain," explores these tenets in depth.

  • Online Platforms: Listeners can visit turkeyperson.com to access Courtney's podcast, An Army of Normal Folks, which spotlights individuals committed to authentic community service.

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Conclusion

Bill Courtney's narrative serves as a powerful reminder of the importance of authentic, selfless service. By distinguishing between genuine philanthropy and actions driven by personal gain, the episode challenges listeners to reflect on their motivations and strive for a more meaningful impact in their communities. Courtney's emphasis on servant leadership and his practical insights offer a blueprint for effecting positive change without falling into the trap of superficial altruism.

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For those inspired to delve deeper into these concepts, exploring Courtney's works and engaging with his initiatives through the provided resources can offer valuable guidance on embodying true servant leadership and making a lasting difference.

Transcript

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[Michael Knowles]

I'm going to be speaking with my guest, Oscar winning coach, Bill Courtney. Coach Courtney, thank you for coming on the show.

[Bill Courtney]

Thanks for having me.

[Michael Knowles]

So Bill, you've got an amazing personal story. I want everyone to get into the upshot of this point because I think it's a really good point not to be a turkey person, which is to say don't just be the kind of person who hands the bum a dollar looking in the other direction and runs away as quickly as possible. Don't just do your charity in a selfish way or in a grudging way, but really recognize people's humanity and really fully give of yourself. I love that whole idea. But just before we even get into not being a turkey person, could you just tell our creme de la creme audience here a little bit about your personal story?

[Bill Courtney]

Grew up in Memphis. Dad left home when I was 4. Mom did the best she could, worked hard, but was a bad chooser of mates. I had five fathers. My fourth one shot at me down a hallway, had to dive out a window one night to save myself. And I grew up in apartments in kind of a lower socioeconomic environment. And that's kind of where I came from. I got married, had four kids, took $17,000 and started a business. I now have 150 employees and $80 million business that does business in 42 different countries. The good men in my life were football coaches. And so when I graduated Ole Miss, I coached football for a living. Had those four kids, couldn't afford it anymore. But in the state of Tennessee, if you go through a bunch of classes, you can continue to coach as what's called a non faculty, certified non faculty coach. And so I've coached for 33 years. So I've had this parallel life as a business owner and as a coach. When I started my business, I found out about this school called Manassas, only about a mile from where my property was. And I took an opportunity to coach there, frankly, because it was convenient. I found 17 kids on a varsity football team whose previous record was four wins and 95 losses. And seven years later, we were 75 kids. We were 18 and two. And in an area where an 18 year old is three times more likely to be dead or in jail than he is to have a job or be in College. We graduated 18 seniors those last two years and 17 went to college and these goofy guys from Hollywood showed up, said they wanted to make a movie that we were convinced we'd see on a Wednesday on channel 422 at 3 in the morning. And a year later, I'm walking down the red carpet at the Academy Awards.

[Michael Knowles]

That's quite a story.

[Bill Courtney]

It's an interesting story. It really is. Yeah.

[Michael Knowles]

So I want, even before we get to the turkey person, but I don't want people to get the turkey person out of their head because it's a good point.

[Bill Courtney]

Sure.

[Michael Knowles]

What impelled you to be charitable? What impelled you to give of your time? You got a successful business, you don't need to be coaching, doing all this other stuff. Was it your rough upbringing, you know, that you think, well, I'm going to make sure this kind of stuff doesn't happen to other kids because plenty of people have a rough upbringing and they say, all right, I'm going to go get mine, you know, I'm going to go get my sack and forget about everybody else. This is the school of hard knocks and we all got to fight our own way out. What gave you that kind of charitable spirit?

[Bill Courtney]

Well, in fairness, I did decide I was going to go get mine. I, you know, I never had a, I never had a. I never owned a lawn. I never cut grass with a lawnmower until I bought my own house with a yard, bought my own lawnmower, you know, and I wanted my children to have opportunities and things available to them that I didn't as a child. And so I went to work hard. I don't know why the Lord has decided to bless me with this business and my marriage of 33 years and four delicious children who are now all gay, painfully employed, doing well all over the country. But he did, and I believe fundamentally that a requisite, a requirement of those blessings is to give back. And my way of giving back is again, when I was growing up in a lot of dysfunction with a lot of pretty bad men in my life, I had some coaches that had they not invested in me, I'm really not sure where I'd end up. And the very fundamentals and tenets and values that I operate my life with, my personal life, my philanthropic Life, my professional life, my entire life with are the lessons I learned from those men, those coaches. And so I saw an opportunity as a coach to, to meet that requisite requirement to give back with a skill set and a passion that I have, which is the lessons that football can teach young men. And so I enjoy coaching football. I'm competitive as hell. It was an opportunity to give back. It was a place that I had a passion and a discipline. And so they all kind of met at opportunity. And that's, that's kind of the story.

[Michael Knowles]

So what's a turkey person?

[Bill Courtney]

My first year at Manassas, remember when we showed up, we were inheriting a team that was four wins and 95 losses over the previous 10 years. Garbage. So halfway through the season, we're three and three. And now I think three and three is pretty average. But when you've won four games in 10 years, they thought I was a fat, redheaded version of Lane Kiffin or somebody. And so I, when I first got there, I also learned that athletic ability was there, and losing was not really about tackles and scoring touchdowns. It was more about a lack of fundamentals, of things like character and commitment, integrity, the value of indignity, of hard work, the importance of showing up on time, civility, the core values and tenets that your grandmother should have taught you, you know, and so I started teaching those as well and holding kids accountable to those. Well, halfway through the season, we're three and three. And while the whole team, because we're winning and there's new equipment and stuff, they're buying into the football, but only half the team is buying into the important stuff. The other half the team, while respectful on the football field. The minute practices and games are over, they're back into the streets, engaging in the same type of behavior that metaphorically got them to 495 in life. And so I was losing it a little bit, real frustrated. I went to my guy. Every coach has a guy, especially a first year coach, you really gotta have a guy. And I said, hey man, what do I gotta do to get that half the team to buy an important stuff like your half the team? And this is a guy who was always real open with me and always had real conversations. And he just said, coach dismissively, just keep doing what you're doing. If you have children, you know the tone. And I'm like, no, man, real talk. And he said, coach, I don't want to hurt your feelings. I said, you are not going to hurt my feelings. I'm a grown ass. Man, and he said, all right. I said, why can't I get that half the team to buy in? The important stuff, like your half the team, y'all are all in on football. But the important stuff, that's going to serve you long after the days of football are over. I can't get them to buy in. And he said, coach, trying to figure out if you're a turkey person or not. And I gotta tell you, bro, I learned a lot of vernacular and phrases my first four months at Manassas that I'd never used or heard in my life, but that was not one. And I looked at him kind of like, what are you talking about? And he said, coach, every Thanksgiving and Christmas, people roll into our neighborhoods and they give us hams and gifts and turkeys, and we take them because we ain't got none. But then they leave and we never see them again. It makes you wonder, are they doing that because they really care about us, or they're doing that to make themselves feel good? And he looked me dead in the eyes. He said, coach, really, man? What the hell are you doing down here in the hood with us? And I gotta tell you, Michael, the truth is, it pissed me off. I was given my time, my money, my effort, and I immediately went to the old default. You can't help these folks if I'm doing all I'm doing and they still wonder if I'm a turkey person. You just can't help quote these folks. And then I started thinking about it, that I really was enjoying the back slaps. I was enjoying the way it was exalting me among my peers. I was enjoying the press. I was. And all of a sudden, this effort, I was starting to enjoy what it was doing for me and what it was about me. If you serve soup in a soup kitchen, or you give turkeys away on Thanksgiving or hams at Christmas or any of that, man, the story is, that's a beautiful thing. People don't need to quit doing that. But we do have to check ourselves and ask ourselves very honestly this. What's our motive? Are we motivated by the simple exaltation of another person who's not as blessed as us, who's not as fortunate as us? Or are we doing it because it makes us feel good or it exalts us among our contemporaries? If you were doing it for the latter, the people will take what you have to offer and they will say, yes or no, sir. Yes, ma'am, no, ma'am, and smile at you. But the minute you turn and Walk away, they were still darts through your back because you are a fraud. Philanthropy is about helping another person for the value of that other person, not for yourself. And so the danger in being a turkey person is simply motive and consistency. And if we will be consistent and be motivated by the very people we are trying to serve, motivated by actually celebrating and someone else becoming better as a result of that service and back up from it and let them have the limelight of their successes as a result of the little bit of work you're putting in, then you avoid being a turkey person and true servant leadership happens and amazing things occur. If on the other hand, you want to take the credit because it makes you feel good, well, you'll give away some turkeys, but you're not going to make any damn difference.

[Michael Knowles]

Right, right. Because people can see that. I mean, to your guys observation, they can tell 100% don't think poor people are dumb.

[Bill Courtney]

And I'm going to tell you something else. In some ways, they're a hell of a lot more astute than you and I are. And they see through that because that's common. We have to be uncommon. We have to serve for the value of the other people back up from it and relish in their success, not our own. And if you do that, beautiful things really can happen.

[Michael Knowles]

Right, Right. I like that basic definition of love. That love is willing the good of another for their own sake, not willing the good of another so that you get a trophy that you can put on your wall or something like that, but really for their own sake, that you dissolve a little bit out of it. Really, really important point that is not only classically, ethically and morally true, but that any person can see in real life when you actually engage in it. It's just a radical difference. Bill, where can people find the movie?

[Bill Courtney]

First of all, Amazon prime bought it. So Undefeated is on Amazon Prime. If you want to watch that, you can read about that and all these tenets in my book against the Grain. And there's plenty of stuff on all that. And where we came to you from is you can go to turkeyperson.com, which will link you with my podcast, an army of Normal Folks, where we highlight every week normal people doing this exact work for the right reasons, which we're trying to inspire people to use their passion, their discipline at points of opportunity and get involved in the communities for the right reason and be consistent with it and maybe change the trajectory of our culture right now.

[Michael Knowles]

Beautiful coach Bill Courtney, thank you sir for coming on the show. And thank you to all of you for watching the show. I'm Michael Knowles. This is the Michael Knowles Show. We'll see you tomorrow.

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