The Michael Knowles Show

Episode 1797 – Everyone Is Mad That Trump Wants to Go to Heaven
Date: August 20, 2025

Episode Overview

In this episode, Michael Knowles breaks down the latest political and cultural controversies swirling around former President Trump, especially public backlash over Trump’s comments about ending wars and wanting to "go to heaven." Knowles explores the theological, political, and cultural implications of the current media firestorm, touches on American identity through museums and narratives, discusses the rebranding of MSNBC, and offers sharp takes on the 2028 Democratic primary field. He maintains his trademark combination of wit, sardonic humor, and unapologetic cultural conservatism throughout.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The “Heaven” Controversy: Trump’s War-Ending Rationale

[00:35 – 12:45]

• Setting the Scene:

  • Knowles opens with incredulity that Trump is now being criticized for expressing a desire to end wars in pursuit of "saving lives" and (half-jokingly) "getting to heaven."
  • Plays Trump's Fox & Friends call-in:

    “If I can save 7,000 people a week from being killed… I want to try and get to heaven if possible. I'm hearing I'm not doing well. I'm really at the bottom of the totem pole. If I can get to heaven, this will be one of the reasons.” — Donald Trump ([02:17])

• Knowles’s Reaction:

  • Marvels at the oddity:

    “Attacking a president because he wants to go to heaven — this will never be topped.” — Michael Knowles ([02:52])

  • Notes two main groups of critics:
    • Liberals: Mock Trump’s invocation of heaven and spirituality, seeing it as “crazy.”
    • Ideological Protestants: Accuse Trump of “works-based salvation,” and even heresy (Pelagianism).

• Knowles’s Theological Analysis:

  • Dismisses both attacks; says Trump’s words reflect an ordinary Christian intuition.
  • Breaks down Trump's quote, focusing on humility:

    “That last part… is the most important… that's the expression of humility. There we have the beginning of wisdom.” ([06:03])

  • Argues that contrary to popular opinion, Trump shows humility—a point Knowles says is often misunderstood, especially in the New Yorker context.

• Quote Highlight:

  “We have, for maybe the first time in my life, a president openly expressing a longing to be with God, expressing profound humility in, I think, a sincere way, trying to end wars…and saying that he's humble. He's saying, 'I don't deserve heaven and I want to be with God.'” ([09:28])

2. The Current Western World Order & Trump as “Imperialist”

[12:45 – 21:30]

• Oval Office Photo Analysis:

  • Describes recent photo: Trump at the Resolute Desk, flanked by European leaders and Zelensky, who appear as “Trump’s assistants.”
  • Says this reveals the post-WWII political hierarchy:

    “They don't look like the heads of sovereign states. They look like people who are getting their marching orders from Trump. And that is the Western world order…” ([14:00])

• Trump’s Global Vision:

  • Trump is not a “nationalist,” but an “imperialist.”

    “He's not a nationalist… He's an imperialist. And I, for one, do think that empire is a more natural form of political order. I think it's an inescapable form…” ([17:00])

  • Reflects on how Trump’s leadership and worldview are misunderstood, even by supporters.

• Personal Anecdote:

  • Shares a reflection on telling his late mother about Trump’s presidency:

    “You know who became President? Trump… and he's good at it.” ([19:45])

3. Immigration, Predictable Tragedies & Political Accountability

[21:30 – 26:36]

• Trucker Tragedy Story:

  • Discusses an incident where an illegal alien trucker caused deaths due to lack of English proficiency and knowledge of road signs.
  • Attacks Democrats for lax enforcement and assimilation standards:

    “Three people are dead because Joe Biden opened the border and Barack Obama opened the border…and even some Republicans opened the border.” ([24:45])

• Statistical Arguments & Reality:

  • Rejects statistical abstractions; focuses on concrete loss.

4. Knowles vs. Shmuli Boteach: The Pope Pius XII Documentary Debate

[26:36 – 34:38]

• Rabbi Shmuli Boteach’s Critique:

  • Boteach criticizes Knowles’s docuseries “The Pope and the Secret Vatican Files” in Times of Israel, accuses them of “desecrating the 6 million and rehabilitating a Nazi collaborator.”
  • Knowles responds with historical counterpoints:
    • Hitler considered Pope Pius XII a personal enemy.
    • Pius XII saved hundreds of thousands of Jews.
    • The chief rabbi of Rome converted to Catholicism and took Pius’s name.

• Memorable Dig:

  “No one has ever accused Shmuli Boteach of being informed. He is one of the most proudly ignorant people I've ever come across.” ([28:50])

5. Trump, Museums, and the American Narrative

[34:38 – 44:40]

• Trump’s new target—the Smithsonian:

  • Trump criticizes museums for focusing almost exclusively on America’s shame, especially slavery, and vows to “fix it.”

    “The Smithsonian is out of control, where everything discussed is how horrible our country is… Nothing about success, nothing about brightness, nothing about the future.” — Knowles quoting Trump ([35:10])

  • Knowles clarifies: The issue isn’t noting that slavery was bad, but that legacy American institutions now only tell a “slanted story” focused on failure and evil.

    “The operative word…is not slavery. The operative word is everything.”

• Why National Stories Matter:

  • Cites the importance of narrative in a nation’s identity, referencing Rome’s Aeneid.

• Quote:

  “What do you think a country is? … Its narrative, its stories.” ([40:55])

6. MSNBC “Dies,” Welcome to “Msnow”

[44:40 – 48:45]

• Rebranding Reveal:

  • MSNBC consolidates into “msnow—My Source News, Opinion, World.”
  • Knowles sees this less as corporate clericalism and more as brand toxicity:

    “MSNBC is simply a toxic brand.”

• Memorable Moment:

  • Producer brings out mini bottles of prosecco to “pour one out” for MSNBC as Knowles toasts to the end of the legacy brand—

    “See you later, MSNBC. See you. It's Ms. Now, man.” ([48:00])

7. Democratic Primary Musings: Gavin Newsom’s Struggles

[48:45 – 54:15]

• Newsom’s Social Media Trolling:

  • Newsom tries to roast Trump online (e.g., mocking Trump’s “Tiny Hands”).
  • Knowles is unimpressed, likening the tactic to Marco Rubio’s failed 2016 attempts:

    “You don't want Tab Cola when you can get the real thing.” ([52:00])

• Analysis:

  • Good trolling only helps Trump—Newsom’s efforts make him seem unserious and secondary in the upcoming primary.

8. Cambridge Dictionary Adds New Words

[54:15 – 58:22]

• Discussion of slang like “broligarchy,” “delulu,” “luke,” and especially “tradwife.”
  • Argues adding “tradwife” is a bad sign, paralleling the now-dead “cis man”:

    “A trad wife is just what we used to call a wife… Now we have to have a special term, because the word that we now use for wife… could also refer to people who behave like husbands. That's bad, man.” ([57:05])

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• Trump on his humility and peace ambitions:

  “I'm hearing I'm not doing well. I'm really at the bottom of the totem pole. If I can get to heaven, this will be one of the reasons.” — Donald Trump ([02:17])

• Knowles on public reaction:

  “Attacking a president because he wants to go to heaven — this will never be topped.” ([02:52])

• Biblical & Theological Reference:

  “James 2:24… a man is justified by works and not by faith alone… faith without works is dead… faith looks like something.” — Michael Knowles ([08:10])

• Photo of Western leaders:

  “They don’t look like heads of sovereign states. They look like people getting their marching orders from Trump.” ([14:00])

• On MSNBC’s demise:

  “MSNBC is simply a toxic brand… Pouring one out for my doppelganger, Rachel Maddow…” ([47:40])

• Language, Identity, and "Tradwife":

  “A trad wife is just what we used to call a wife… Shows you how normal language has been perverted, which is one of the chief ways the left advances its cultural agenda.” ([57:05])

Timestamps of Important Segments

• Main “Heaven” Controversy: [00:35 – 12:45]
• Trump as World Leader / Western Order: [12:45 – 21:30]
• Immigration & Accountability: [21:30 – 26:36]
• Knowles vs. Boteach/Pope Pius XII: [26:36 – 34:38]
• Museums, Narrative & National Identity: [34:38 – 44:40]
• MSNBC / Msnow Rebrand: [44:40 – 48:45]
• Newsom & Democrat 2028 Primary: [48:45 – 54:15]
• Cambridge Dictionary & "Tradwife": [54:15 – 58:22]

Tone & Style

Knowles’s lively delivery is a blend of wry humor, Catholic-flavored moralism, and self-aware hyperbole. He frames much of his cultural criticism as a battle for meaning and narrative, pushing back against what he views as leftist demoralization and semantic manipulation. He relishes irony, boasts a strong theological bent, and enjoys personal anecdotes to underscore larger cultural shifts.

Useful For…

• Listeners who want both a play-by-play and analysis of the Trump “heaven” uproar
• Those interested in conservative views on national narrative, political order, and cultural language shifts
• Anyone needing a comprehensive recap of the show’s most engaging rants and segments without filler or ads