The Michael Knowles Show: Ep. 1801

Title: "Trump's Flag-Burning Ban Is A Litmus Test"
Date: August 26, 2025
Host: Michael Knowles (The Daily Wire)

Overview

In this episode, Michael Knowles analyzes President Trump’s executive order aiming to prosecute and jail those who burn the American flag, framing it as a major test—“a litmus test”—that distinguishes true conservatism from libertarianism within the American right. Knowles explores the cultural, legal, and philosophical implications of flag desecration, discusses shifting attitudes toward immigration, and highlights a viral pop culture moment (Snoop Dogg's reaction to LGBT representation in kids' movies) as evidence of cultural overreach from the left.

Main Discussion Points & Insights

1. Trump's Flag-Burning Executive Order: The Conservative Litmus Test

• Announcement & Rationale

  • Trump’s executive order makes burning the American flag punishable by one year in jail—no exceptions, no early release, and a permanent criminal record.
    • "If you burn a flag, you get one year in jail. No early exits, no nothing...You will see flag burning stopping immediately." (Trump, paraphrased by Knowles, 03:11-03:28)
  • The move is cast as more than mere law; it is about restoring the “sacredness” and “sanctity” of the American flag and national identity.
    • “Our great American flag is the most sacred and cherished symbol of the United States of America and of American freedom, identity and strength." (Citing EO, 05:00)

• Separation between Conservatives and Libertarians

  • Knowles labels the reaction to Trump’s order as "the single greatest litmus test for conservatism I’ve seen in my lifetime" (02:03)
  • Critiques libertarians for “magical thinking”—believing banning something will make it more prevalent.
    • "One of those is if you ban something, you’ll get more of it...But that’s not how it works." (04:05)
  • Insists: Tradition (and reality) say that banning something reduces its frequency; subsidizing increases it.

2. The Sacred: Why Reverence Matters in Law and Society

• Restoring the Sacred
  • Knowles explores the meaning of “sacred”—what makes the Constitution, flag, and national symbols worthy of protection and reverence.
    • “One of the chief problems of our political era is we have lost the sense of the sacred.” (08:22)
  • Argues that love of country is an extension of filial piety—love and respect for family.
  • Laws, constitutions, and flags are only meaningful—and law can only be effective—if held as sacred and treated with reverence.

3. Legal Arguments: Texas v. Johnson and Supreme Court History

• Recap of the Precedent

  • Texas v. Johnson (1989) struck down laws prohibiting flag burning as violation of First Amendment free speech.
  • Antonin Scalia voted with the majority, arguing the First Amendment protects even speech we despise.
    • Scalia: “If I were king, I would not allow people to go about burning the American flag. However, we have a First Amendment...” (11:41)

• Counterarguments from Knowles

  • Critiques Scalia’s reasoning and points to Chief Justice Rehnquist’s dissent emphasizing the flag’s unique, supra-political meaning:
    • “The flag is not simply another idea or point of view competing for recognition in the marketplace of ideas... millions and millions of Americans regard it with an almost mystical reverence.” (Rehnquist dissent, paraphrased by Knowles, 17:37)
  • Highlights the late ruling (1989) as evidence the founders and much of American jurisprudence never saw flag burning as protected speech.
  • Stresses: “Conservatives should get on the right side of this...and move on from procedural norms toward greater substantive goods.” (38:50)

4. Immigration & Political Realignment

• Decline in US Immigrant Population

  • Pew Research data: For the first time in 50 years, the US immigrant population declined by ~1.4 million in six months.
    • “In June, the country had 51.9 million immigrants. That was down from 53.3 million six months earlier.” (22:25)
  • Knowles cheers the drop as a return to healthy skepticism of mass migration and as a challenge to “libertarian proceduralism” about borders.

• Democrat Dilemma: Political Impact

  • Declining immigrant numbers may erode Democrats’ future electoral college advantages as Congressional seats shift to red states (Texas, Florida, Utah, Idaho).
  • Blue states lose influence as people and potential new voters leave for conservative states.

• The Kilmar Abrego Garcia Case

  • Democrats' “poster child” for illegal immigration, Garcia, doesn’t speak English after 14 years, has alleged gang ties, and is facing deportation. Knowles skewers the left for elevating such examples.
    • “If you’re in this country for 14 years, you never even try to learn a word of English. That should be automatic deportation.” (31:05)

5. Culture: Snoop Dogg on LGBT Content in Kids' Films

• Snoop Dogg's Frustration

  • On a podcast, Snoop Dogg recounts his confusion when his grandson questioned how two women in the film “Lightyear” could have a baby together.
    • Snoop Dogg: "Papa Snoop, How’d she have a baby with a woman? She a woman. Oh, I didn’t come in for this." (40:09)
    • “Me, I’m scared to go to the movies now. Like, y’all throwing me in the middle of that. I don’t have an answer for.” (40:46)

• Knowles' Commentary

  • Argues the left has overreached such that even liberal icons like Snoop are put in impossible positions by progressive culture wars.
  • “When the libs lose Snoop Dogg, they’ve lost too much.” (41:18)
  • Connects this to why issues like trans ideology in kids’ spaces resonated so strongly in 2024.

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On the Sacredness of National Symbols:

  “We do it because we love our grandpa. And love of country, patriotism, is an extension of the love of your family, of filial piety... This is what holds us all together. It’s what allows us to have some peace so we can exist [and] flourish...”
  — Michael Knowles (09:20)

• On Losing the “Common Sense” Culture:

  “The best example that [Democrats] can come up with of illegal immigration is Kilmar Abrego Garcia [who] doesn’t know how to say hello and goodbye in English. You’re losing the culture.”
  — Michael Knowles (36:00)

• On Free Speech and Paradox:

  “It is an incoherent act to burn the American flag because you are relying on the supposed freedoms promised by the United States to destroy the United States. That is incoherent.”
  — Michael Knowles (19:40)

• On Cultural Overreach:

  “When you’re losing [Snoop Dogg] because you’re pushing lesbianism in a kid’s movie, you’ve just lost. You’ve now lost so much of the electorate.”
  — Michael Knowles (41:10)

Timestamps of Key Segments

• 03:11-05:00: Details of Trump’s executive order, legal rationale, incitement, and direct EO text.
• 08:22–10:45: Reflections on the sacred, reverence, and the Constitution.
• 11:41–12:20: Antonin Scalia’s Texas v. Johnson argument (audio quote).
• 17:37–21:55: Chief Justice Rehnquist’s and Justice Stevens’ dissent explanations; symbolic importance of the flag.
• 22:25–27:00: Data and implications of US immigrant population decline.
• 31:05–33:00: The Kilmar Abrego Garcia case as a symbol of failed immigration policy.
• 39:55–41:46: Snoop Dogg's account of the “Lightyear” screening and Knowles' cultural commentary.

Final Summary & Tone

Michael Knowles closes with the assertion that Trump's executive order on flag burning marks a clarifying change for conservatism—moving away from procedural, libertarian “norms” and toward reasserting substantive, traditional goods in American law and society. The episode laments the loss of national reverence, critiques shifting immigration policies, and identifies moments in pop culture as symptom and signal of a failing left-wing strategy. Throughout, Knowles uses a forthright, conversational, at times sardonic tone—direct, unapologetically polemical, but always attentive to legal and philosophical detail.