Ep. 1836 - BREAKING: Gen Z De-Gays Itself

Summary

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The Michael Knowles Show – Ep. 1836: “BREAKING: Gen Z De-Gays Itself”

Date: October 15, 2025

Overview

In this episode, Michael Knowles discusses a new study showing declines in LGBTQ identification among Gen Z, analyzes the cultural and ideological implications of this trend, and explores related topics in politics, medicine, and ethics. The conversation features guests including Congressman August Pfluger and Cheryl Hines, commentary on the government shutdown’s effect on the military, in-depth critique of assisted suicide policies in Canada and Virginia, and a reflection on faith, freedom, and cultural trends. Knowles delivers his signature blend of conservative analysis, humor, and literary references, aiming to expose what he sees as the enduring truths beneath shifting social fads.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Decline of Queer and Trans Identification in Gen Z ([00:00]–[12:09])

Main Findings:

• UK Study by Eric Kaufman (University of Buckingham): Reports a significant decline in young people identifying as transgender, queer, or otherwise non-heterosexual after years of rapid growth.
• The percentage of university students identifying as trans peaked in 2023 (nearly 7%) and has dropped to under 4%. Share of students identifying as not heterosexual fell by around 10 points.
• The decrease primarily affects the “Q” (queer, non-binary), with gay and lesbian identification remaining relatively flat.
• The study found no strong link between the decline and reduced social media use, religious revival, or rightward political shift.

Cultural Analysis:

• Knowles suggests past surges reflected a “social contagion” rather than innate trends, referencing the tendency for people to imitate social norms and identity categories.
• He posits that the more abstract, less sensual categories (non-binary, queer) fade first, as they are less rooted in physical reality and more in ideological abstraction.
• Improved mental health among young people connects with the decline: “If you’re a guy who thinks you’re a chick, you have mental issues by definition.” ([06:18] Michael Knowles)

Notable Exchange:

• Knowles: “On a long enough timescale, reality eventually reasserts itself every time.” ([00:32])
• Ben Shapiro (frequent sidekick and voice throughout): “People are straight again.” ([07:27])

Philosophical Reference:

• Knowles invokes Rudyard Kipling’s “The Gods of the Copybook Headings” to frame the resurgence of common truths over fashionable ideologies.
  • “And the gods of the copybook headings limped up to explain it once more.” ([11:31] Michael Knowles)

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2. Science, Expertise, and Public Policy: Cheryl Hines vs. The View ([13:30]–[19:45])

Segment Summary:

• Cheryl Hines, wife of Robert F. Kennedy Jr., appears on “The View” and points out the dangers of harmful substances (arsenic, lead) in baby formula, highlighting the need for regulatory oversight.
• Joy Behar and other hosts downplay RFK Jr.'s credentials, noting he's “not a doctor,” trying to dismiss his advocacy against Big Pharma.
• Hines rebuts, pointing out most Secretaries of Health and Human Services have not been doctors. She demands equal concern for public health regardless of political affiliation.

Key Quotes:

• Cheryl Hines: “One of Obama’s secretaries of HHS was an economist.” ([18:33])
• Joy Behar is momentarily stumped, leading to an abrupt commercial cut: “Wait, wait, wait, wait... We gotta cut this off.” ([19:00])

Knowles' Take:

• Uses the exchange to highlight how “the Left really doesn’t know what to say” when confronted with scientific facts that contradict their tribal narratives.
• Argues that the right has a legitimate tradition of scientific achievement, referencing Catholic scientists (Mendel, Copernicus).

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3. Medical Ethics: Organ Transplants from Assisted Suicide Victims in Canada ([19:47]–[25:03])

Critical Issue:

• Knowles reviews a story from Canada where a man received a heart from a donor who died via MAID (Medical Assistance in Dying, i.e., euthanasia).
• Raises profound ethical concerns about the slippery slope of assisted suicide leading to the exploitation and commodification of vulnerable people.

Key Points:

• References the Hippocratic Oath: “First, do no harm. Assisted suicide harms, just immediately harms because it kills people.” ([20:26] Ben Shapiro)
• Warns of a progression from targeted euthanasia for the terminally ill to broader application, including people with depression, eating disorders, even teenagers and the mentally handicapped.
• The commodification of organs from those assisted in dying—“we’re already harvesting the suicide’s organs”—is seen as a chilling outcome of dehumanized, individualist ethics.

Quotes:

• Knowles: “If we seek to eliminate suffering, ultimately we’re going to eliminate human life.” ([21:19])
• “Suicide is bad and we shouldn’t encourage it and we definitely shouldn’t be profiting from it.” ([23:53])

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4. Government Shutdown and Military Readiness: Interview with Rep. August Pfluger ([26:35]–[34:34])

Context:

• Ongoing U.S. government shutdown impacting federal employees and threatening military pay.
• Rep. Pfluger claims Democrats are responsible, with Senate Democrats blocking funding bills.

Concerns Raised:

• Shutdown hurts military readiness and morale, with many soldiers’ families living on the edge.
• Administration is borrowing from other accounts to pay the troops temporarily, but this is not sustainable.

Notable Quotes:

• Pfluger: “A lot of our troops are on food stamps, and they’re worried about that... So absolutely, it hurts mission readiness, it hurts our focus, and it hurts our national security.” ([27:53])
• “We’re not going to hold us hostage like this and laugh at the American people and say, look, we just... did this political stunt and now we get something out of it. No.” ([32:03])

Political Analysis:

• Knowles points out the disconnect between Democrats’ rhetoric (“the people are on our side”) and the reality of electoral defeat and public opinion.

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5. Assisted Suicide and Democratic Party Moderation ([36:02]–[40:45])

Spanberger’s Position:

• Rep. Abigail Spanberger, running for governor in Virginia, supports “right to die with dignity” legislation and opposes allowing religious-based objections among healthcare providers.

Knowles’ Critique:

• Argues this approach is extreme even among moderates, painting the current Democratic Party as far left compared to previous decades.
• Criticizes Spanberger’s statement: “I do not believe that people should have the option to allow their own personal beliefs to dictate the type of medical care that they are providing their patients.” ([37:10])

Quote & Takeaway:

• Knowles: “This woman is a sick person... She wants to kill like everybody. And this is the moderate.” ([39:03–39:52])

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6. Reflections on Freedom, Religion, and Cultural Recovery ([40:50]–[46:57])

Charlie Kirk Presidential Medal of Freedom:

• Trump awards the late Charlie Kirk the Presidential Medal of Freedom, with an engraved cross—a first in history.
• Erica Kirk, his widow, speaks, showing “a moment of levity and strength” that Knowles admires as a testament to faith under grief.

On Freedom:

• Knowles reasserts a conservative, Christian view of freedom as grounded in discipline, truth, and Christ: “Perfect freedom is found in Christ. Christ says the truth will set you free.” ([44:13])
• Contrasts this with the “shallow, negative view of liberty” that dominated late 20th-century culture.

Memorable Moment:

• On Erica Kirk’s joke about Charlie praying for enemies, Trump laughs, and Knowles notes the humility in Trump’s recognition of Kirk’s virtue. ([41:44])

Closing Thought:

• Cites Washington Post piece on people fearing dying alone, predicting a return to communal values after a wave of atomized individualism.

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Notable Quotes & Timestamps

• "On a long enough timescale, reality eventually reasserts itself every time." — Michael Knowles ([00:32])
• “If you’re a guy who thinks you’re a chick, you have mental issues by definition.” — Michael Knowles ([06:18])
• “The gods of the copybook headings limped up to explain it once more.” — Michael Knowles quoting Kipling ([11:31])
• “People are straight again.” — Ben Shapiro ([07:27])
• “The fact that troops are on food stamps is a national disgrace, frankly.” — Ben Shapiro ([29:02])
• “If we seek to eliminate suffering, ultimately we’re going to eliminate human life.” — Michael Knowles ([21:19])
• “This woman is a sick person... She wants to kill like everybody. And this is the moderate.” — Michael Knowles on Abigail Spanberger ([39:03–39:52])

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Key Timestamps

• [00:00–12:09]: Decline in Gen Z LGBTQ identification and philosophical implications
• [13:30–19:45]: Cheryl Hines vs. The View on science, public health, and medical credentialism
• [19:47–25:03]: Organ transplants from assisted suicide patients; critique of Canadian policy
• [26:35–34:34]: Government shutdown, military pay, and interview with Rep. Pfluger
• [36:02–40:45]: Assisted suicide, Democratic politics, and the problem with radical moderation
• [40:50–46:57]: Charlie Kirk tribute, faith and freedom, societal return to foundational values

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Tone & Style

Michael Knowles maintains a confident, combative, and sometimes tongue-in-cheek conservative tone, weaving in historical and literary references while making pointed critiques of left-liberal ideologies, scientific credentialism, and shifting political norms. The episode alternates between earnest polemic, sardonic humor, and moments of genuine pathos, especially in its discussion of faith and loss.

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Transcript

[Michael Knowles]

A new study out of the UK shows that queer identity is in free fall among young people. For reaction, we turn now to the official Michael Nol show. Gen Z correspondent.

[Congressman August Pfluger]

I'm not gay no more.

[Michael Knowles]

Really surprising turn of events for the libs who believed the relentless lavender propaganda of the last decade about men becoming women and gender affirmation and non binary identities. They're really surprised by this. But it's an even more surprising turn of events for skittish conservatives who seem to have forgotten the essential consolation of conservative political philosophy, which is that on a long enough timescale, reality eventually reasserts itself every time. I'm Michael Knowles.

[Ben Shapiro]

This is the Michael Knowles Show.

[Michael Knowles]

Welcome back to the show. You know the government's shutdown?

[Ben Shapiro]

Did you.

[Michael Knowles]

Do you remember that? I know they shut the government down. The Democrats, Chuck Schumer, they shut it down and then we all just kind of forgot. And now Schumer's saying it could be the longest government shutdown ever. Well, now it might be impacting our military. So we will have Congressman August Pflueger on the show coming up. Do not go anywhere. We will get the update, especially as it pertains to the military. First, though, I wanna tell you about Chevron.

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[Michael Knowles]

This study is just a delight. This is out of the University of Buckingham. Eric Kaufman is the author. Here's the executive summary. We got all sorts of charts and graphs and numbers, but here's the executive summary. After surging in the 2000 teens and twenties, trans and queer identities are in decline among young Americans. For a while there, they were just skyrocketing. Every time you open the news, it was 5%, 10%, 25%, 30% of Gen Z identifies as LGBTQ. And now after that massive surge, you know, it went from one in four, maybe more, to one in three, maybe me. It now it seems to be declining. The transgender share among university students peaked in 2023 and has almost halved since, from nearly 7% to under 4%. Some of us have been suggesting that maybe the transgender identity is a social contagion, and it's not. Some deeply Rooted, essential or biological aspect of identity. You know, the libs have always said, no, no, no. The reason that the number of trans identifying students keeps increasing is because people now feel liber to come out of the closet and express their true selves. And some of us have said, I'm kind of skeptical of that. I think it's just like a lot of people never even thought that this was a thing and then they're introduced.

[Ben Shapiro]

To this idea and then some of.

[Michael Knowles]

Them go along with it because of.

[Ben Shapiro]

Mimesis, because of the fact that we.

[Michael Knowles]

Imitate each other and we're social creatures and that's how social contagions take hold.

[Ben Shapiro]

That's kind of what we thought.

[Michael Knowles]

Looks like the data are now backing that up. The study finds the share of students identifying as not heterosexual fell by around.

[Ben Shapiro]

10 points in the same period.

[Michael Knowles]

And not heterosexual is a weird category.

[Ben Shapiro]

Actually.

[Michael Knowles]

I had a friend in college who, I remember this, this guy would, he would pick up chicks, you know, he was. Other than some of his fashion choices, by all signs was a straight guy. But he identified as non heterosexual. And to my knowledge, he never did any weird stuff with dudes or anything. But he identified as not heterosexual because, I don't know, in the late 2000s and 2000s, that was cool, that was fashionable. It was kind of, it was square to be straight. You know, weirdly, I don't know, maybe he thought it would help him pick up chicks or something. But it's very hard to pin down what that means. In any case, that identity has dropped precipitously. 10 points, same period. The decline in the non heterosexual share is concentrated in the queer or other sexual categories and to a lesser extent, bisexuality. Okay, so you're seeing a decline in all those groups. Today's freshmen are less btq, so not the L. Forget about the lg. The lesbians and gays are basically flat, but the bisexual, trans and queer plus all the rest of the Alphabet. The freshmen are much less likely to be that than the seniors are, suggesting.

[Ben Shapiro]

That the decline will continue.

[Michael Knowles]

Who knows next year's freshman?

[Ben Shapiro]

Who knows the freshman?

[Michael Knowles]

After that, probably you're gonna see more of a decline. The decline in BTQ plus identification does not appear to be connected to lower social media use, religious revival, a shift to the political right, or lower support for woke ideology. So it's not just that more kids coming into school are Catholic or. Sorry, it's not just that more kids coming into school are, you know, hardline rock rib, Southern baptists or MAGA people, or that They've put the Instagram away and that it's that TikTok that's infected. It doesn't appear to be correlated with any of that. It seems to be a broader social trend that the lavender mafia, at least the BTQ part of it, is just declining generally. Finally, there is evidence that improved mental health has reduced BTQ identification, which is kind of redundant. Yes. I don't know if you're allowed to.

[Ben Shapiro]

Say it even today on social media.

[Michael Knowles]

But yeah, if you're a guy who thinks you're a chick, you have mental issues by definition.

[Ben Shapiro]

So if you are more mentally stable, if you have better mental health, then you're much less likely to deal with all of those social pathologies.

[Michael Knowles]

Okay. Now if you dig into this study of all the charts and everything here, the real focus is not on the L or the G or even on the T. It's more on the Q. On the Q part queer, which is that catch all. Specifically non binary. If you look here and they compile numbers from Andover, from fire, the foundation for Individual Rights and Education, Brown, a couple of other organizations, and you're seeing it broadly across these organizations. Cher not identifying as male or female per fire, you know, various sexual orientation, gender identity, even here. Let's just look at Fire's numbers for straight. It's pretty flat. Straight back in 2020 was 80 plus percent. Then it dipped a little bit during the apotheosis and then it kind of came back up in 2025.

[Ben Shapiro]

People are straight again.

[Michael Knowles]

And if you look at bisexual, it's pretty much flat up a little bit and down. Gay, lesbian, pretty much flat. If you look at queer, that's the one that was lower. It peaked and then it declined. Queer, non binary. Why is that one in particular seeming.

[Ben Shapiro]

To lead the way?

[Michael Knowles]

I'll tell you exactly why. Because the non binary, genderqueer queer, generally identity is the least sensual of the sexual gender identities that have become fashionable.

[Ben Shapiro]

In the last 10 years.

[Michael Knowles]

The other ones, if you're gay, if.

[Ben Shapiro]

You'Re lesbian, if you're bisexual, if you're.

[Michael Knowles]

Transsexual, trans, whatever, those are all much more physical. What does it mean to be gay? It means you're a dude who likes doing certain things with other guys. If you're a lesbian, it means you're.

[Ben Shapiro]

A lady who likes Birkenstocks and Subaru cars.

[Michael Knowles]

Now, it means that you ostensibly like doing physical things with other women. If you're transgender, you like the idea of your body as being the opposite sex. It's very sense based. It's very sensual, it's very physical. It corresponds more to physical desire. The non binary ideology is just an abstraction. What does that mean? You're totally abstracting away from desire, from physical activity, from sex.

[Ben Shapiro]

You're just basically saying, I'm androgynous, I'm.

[Michael Knowles]

A like a big gray blob or whatever. So it's all the same ideology. The ideology that says that your physical.

[Ben Shapiro]

Body has nothing to do with your true self and your true self has nothing to do with how you ought to comport yourself.

[Michael Knowles]

It's all the same ideology. But I'm not at all surprised that the more abstract version is leading the way in the free fall and that the trans and the queer and the L and the G are lagging a little bit behind, even if they're gonna go in the same direction. Of course, the idea is bankrupt. Sometimes people just develop physical habits or physical addictions even, or physical inclinations that are tougher to break. But the idea, the ideology, the abstraction.

[Ben Shapiro]

Totally in free fall.

[Michael Knowles]

I'm also just to put a final point on it, I'm not surprised that this is collapsing, that trans is basically over. I predicted it at CPAC in 2023, 2022, 2023. I said, look, there's no compromising with this. It's either true or it's false. And it happens to be false.

[Ben Shapiro]

And so the ideology has to be eradicated from public life entirely.

[Michael Knowles]

For the good of everyone, for the good of society also. Especially for the good of the people.

[Ben Shapiro]

Who'Ve fallen prey to this confusion.

[Michael Knowles]

Because it's really bad for them, it's fake, it's false.

[Ben Shapiro]

And we just have to acknowledge that and move on.

[Michael Knowles]

That is what has happened. That has happened because the gods of the copy book headings rear their heads again. Are you familiar with this poem? You know Rudyard Kipling?

[Ben Shapiro]

He's great. He's the one who wrote the poem about how much he loves cigars. And he said, a woman is only a woman, but a good cigar is a smoke.

[Michael Knowles]

He's a great, wonderful poet, British poet, and there's a very famous poem he wrote. I'm gonna read you two stanzas. This is gonna make you feel the conservative consolation in this world that is always shooting arrows at us. This is a great consolation. As I pass through my incarnations in every age and race, I make my proper prostrations to the gods of the marketplace. Peering through reverent fingers, I watch them flourish and fall. And the gods of the copybook headings I notice outlast them all the gods of the copy book headings, those maxims.

[Ben Shapiro]

That we just hold to be true.

[Michael Knowles]

Throughout all ages, throughout cultures, they just keep coming back. You know, the old wisdom of old women say, then the God skip down a few stances. Then the gods of the market tumbled and their smooth tongued wizards withdrew and the hearts of the meanest were humbled.

[Ben Shapiro]

And began to believe it was true.

[Michael Knowles]

That all is not gold that glitters and two and two make four. And the gods of the copybook headings.

[Ben Shapiro]

Limped up to explain it once more.

[Michael Knowles]

Those smooth tongued wizards feeding the marketplace.

[Ben Shapiro]

You know, of fashions and fads, they were found wanting.

[Michael Knowles]

And the gods of the copybook headings.

[Ben Shapiro]

Had to explain to people that two plus two equals four again. And you know, actually men and women are different and a man can't become a woman.

[Michael Knowles]

And those things that are always true everywhere, they're still true. And no matter how hard you try to pretend otherwise, no matter what force, sheer tyranny of will you impose upon us to make us say it, it won't be true.

[Ben Shapiro]

And on a long enough timescale, you're gonna lose. In this case, it took about five years.

[Michael Knowles]

Now, speaking of medical issues, Cheryl Hines.

[Ben Shapiro]

The wife of Bobby Kennedy Jr. Just completely destroyed the ladies of the View.

[Michael Knowles]

We'll get to that in one moment.

[Ben Shapiro]

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[Michael Knowles]

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[Ben Shapiro]

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[Michael Knowles]

So you could save thousands of dollars.

[Ben Shapiro]

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[Michael Knowles]

H a e l to 70246 that number again, 70246 to get the facts. It's the word Michael.

[Ben Shapiro]

Don't spell it like a barista.

[Michael Knowles]

Spell it correctly.

[Ben Shapiro]

M I, C H, A, E, L. You will get the link.

[Michael Knowles]

Michael.

[Ben Shapiro]

70246.

[Michael Knowles]

Cheryl Hines, better known even than she is as Bobby Kennedy's wife. She's better known as Larry David's wife.

[Ben Shapiro]

On Curb youb Enthusiasm. And Larry David, who is to the left of Lennon, is just absolutely furious at any Republican over the last decade. At least.

[Michael Knowles]

Cheryl Hines goes on the View with all of her old gal pals from the Hollywood circles, and they're furious at her because her husband, who used to be very popular in Hollywood circles, Democrat Bobby Kennedy, is supporting the evil Orange man who keeps making our country better.

[Ben Shapiro]

And bringing about world peace.

[Michael Knowles]

And they hate her for it. And so they really. They're gonna put the screws to her. And one of their biggest issues is that Bobby Kennedy Jr. Is sticking his nose in where it doesn't belong, and he is compromising our precious Big Pharma.

[Cheryl Hines]

Even baby formula, now we're finding out there's arsenic, there's lead. So the question is, who is running HHS when they allowed lead and arsenic in a baby formula? How is that person not doing it?

[Congressman August Pfluger]

Well, two wrongs don't make a right.

[Michael Knowles]

No.

[Cheryl Hines]

Well, I'm saying Bobby is the one getting this out.

[Joy Behar]

I know.

[Ben Shapiro]

For him on that.

[Cheryl Hines]

Thank you.

[Joy Behar]

Can we clear one thing before you go?

[Cheryl Hines]

Yes.

[Michael Knowles]

Okay. Joy Behar. That's not even the best clip from the show. Joy Behar. It's like, you know, two wrongs don't make a right. That's her answer to Cheryl Hines saying, hey, Bobby Kennedy got into this job and he's noticing that there's a bunch.

[Ben Shapiro]

Of poison in our food and in.

[Michael Knowles]

Our medicine and stuff that really shouldn't be there. And so she goes, yeah, yeah, but two wrongs don't make it right. Cheryl Hans goes, what are you talking about? Two wrongs? He's getting the poison out. And Joy Behera goes, yeah, yeah. Well, good for him. She doesn't know what to say on this issue. In particular, on all issues pertaining to science. The left really doesn't know what to.

[Ben Shapiro]

Say when you challenge them on it.

[Michael Knowles]

Because they take it as a maxim, as an axiom, that the science is on their side. And anytime a conservative or a Republican or even a lifelong Democrat who happens to be working for a Republican, Bobby Kennedy, anytime they intervene in any way in medical science, that they have to be wrong. Right, That's. But. And this is part of the party's switching the coalitions kind of moving about here is it used to be that the anti big pharma people were all on the left. Now they happen to be on the right. Used to be that the big corporate shills were all on the right. Now they happen to be on the left. And this is confusing people like Joy Behar. So Bayer goes, yeah, well, your husband is just doing stuff in pharma and that has to be bad. And Cheryl Hines goes, well, he's getting.

[Ben Shapiro]

Arsenic out of baby food.

[Michael Knowles]

She goes, yeah, well, okay.

[Ben Shapiro]

I mean, yeah, good for him. That's fine.

[Michael Knowles]

She doesn't know how to handle that. It's true on any medical issue.

[Ben Shapiro]

The trans thing, obviously, as we were.

[Michael Knowles]

Just discussing, but really, all of them, this is a real blind spot for the left, is they. They believe their own press releases. They really think that the right wingers are complete idiots, just totally ignorant when it comes to matters of science. They think people who are politically conservative, especially religious, are just total dolts. And that, you know, it's the atheists and the secularists and the liberals who.

[Ben Shapiro]

Have really led the way.

[Michael Knowles]

And that isn't true. And it's really funny when you point out, you say, you know, like, the Catholics, for instance, have discovered, like, every.

[Ben Shapiro]

Single thing that's ever been discovered.

[Michael Knowles]

You know, like even you guys, like the big bang, for instance, that was.

[Ben Shapiro]

A Catholic priest who theorized the big bang.

[Michael Knowles]

You're like, modern genetics.

[Ben Shapiro]

Mendel actually is the father of modern genetics.

[Michael Knowles]

Copernicus was, I think he was in.

[Ben Shapiro]

A third order of a religious order.

[Michael Knowles]

The list goes on and on and on.

[Ben Shapiro]

What are you people talking about?

[Michael Knowles]

And so she doesn't know. She's really weak on this. Then when they can't argue on the substance, they have to go back to credentialism. And this is where Cheryl Hines really knocks it out of the park. The libs think they have her. They say, well, your husband, who's the Secretary of Health and Human Services, doesn't have a doctorate.

[Joy Behar]

I just. I do wanna say, you know, he's not a doctor and he's not a professional.

[Cheryl Hines]

Yes.

[Joy Behar]

And oftentimes when he's talking, oftentimes when he's speaking, he is speaking not with the best information that we can get because, you know, give you pause. And are you able to say, you know, that might not actually be so? Because I've got my experience and I've lived with this and I'm still here. So are you able to have those conversations with her?

[Cheryl Hines]

I am able to have those conversations. And just to be clear, 90% of secretaries of HHS have not been doctors.

[Ben Shapiro]

But they've had a science background.

[Cheryl Hines]

They've been three. Yeah, no, to be honest, one of Obama's secretaries of HHS was an economist.

[Joy Behar]

The majority of them that haven't had medical backgrounds have science backgrounds. Wait, don't do anything else. Don't say anything else yet.

[Cheryl Hines]

Cause I do wanna.

[Joy Behar]

Cause you have to take a break.

[Michael Knowles]

Oh, wait, wait, wait. Don't say anything else. Don't say anything else because you just.

[Ben Shapiro]

Totally smacked down my point.

[Michael Knowles]

Yeah, well, look, your husband might be right. And okay, fine, it's like, I guess.

[Ben Shapiro]

It'S good to take arsenic out of.

[Michael Knowles]

Baby food, but like he doesn't have his PhD. Yeah, basically no secretaries of HHS have ever had a doctorate. Huh. And then was it Sunny Hostin there was kind of prepared for that pushback a little bit and said yes, but they've all had, you know, some kind of medical expertise. And first of all, Bobby Kennedy as.

[Ben Shapiro]

Being a medical and environmental lawyer actually.

[Michael Knowles]

Does have some expertise there. But then Cheryl Hines comes out, she goes, one of Obama's was an economist. Okay, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait. We gotta cut this off. We're gonna go to commercial right now. Absolutely bodying. Great stuff, Great, great stuff.

[Ben Shapiro]

Cheryl Hines just bodied those ladies on the View.

[Michael Knowles]

Now, speaking of HHS and bioethics, a disturbing story that I've been meaning to get to for a few days now. And the time is now. Here we are. National Post story out of Canada. American man gets heart from 38 year old Ontario ALS patient who died by maid.

[Ben Shapiro]

Medical assistance in dying, also known as assisted suicide.

[Michael Knowles]

So Canada legalizes assisted suicide. And people who have even a slightly.

[Ben Shapiro]

Functioning sense of morality immediately said, well, this is really bad. Assisted suicide is really, really bad.

[Michael Knowles]

It violates the Hippocratic oath.

[Ben Shapiro]

First of all, Hippocratic oath begins first, do no harm. Assisted suicide harms, just immediately harms because it kills people.

[Michael Knowles]

And also it's gonna lead to all.

[Ben Shapiro]

Of these terrible outcomes. It's going to pressure old people who.

[Michael Knowles]

Many, many old people feel like a.

[Ben Shapiro]

Burden on their families and they are more prone to depression and to despair.

[Michael Knowles]

It's going to encourage a lot of them to kill themselves when they should not kill themselves.

[Ben Shapiro]

They should be loved and cherished in their old age and have a sense.

[Michael Knowles]

Of dignity and not be permitted or certainly not encouraged to fall into despair. But it's not just old people.

[Ben Shapiro]

It's gonna be people who have serious illnesses. They're not going to persevere. They're not going to.

[Michael Knowles]

Even as they Suffer, recognize that suffering.

[Ben Shapiro]

Is a part of the human condition.

[Michael Knowles]

And be an example of how to suffer. And I believe at least suffering is sanctifying. But at the very least, I think.

[Ben Shapiro]

We have to acknowledge suffering is an inescapable part of the human condition.

[Michael Knowles]

And if we seek to eliminate suffering, ultimately we're going to eliminate human life. And you have seen this because it's.

[Ben Shapiro]

Not just people who have some terribly painful, degenerative illness who you can say with nearly 100% certainty will never recover and will be in excruciating pain toward the end, even though we have good palliative care now.

[Michael Knowles]

But all of a sudden it starts to creep back. Now it's adults who don't have, say.

[Ben Shapiro]

Lou Gehrig's disease, it's adults with depression, adults with, I don't know, an eating disorder. Say, who? They say, I'm gonna kill myself. And the Canadian government says that's okay.

[Michael Knowles]

Then it's teenagers in certain parts of.

[Ben Shapiro]

The world, then it's the mentally handicapped. Then it's all of a sudden this is getting really, really dark now. We're harvesting the organs from these people.

[Michael Knowles]

Now.

[Ben Shapiro]

And we've had conversations on this show about the organ donation market for a long time. Lots of dubious ethics in the medical donation because it's reliant upon this scientific concept of brain. Not even it's an ideological concept of.

[Michael Knowles]

Brain death, which really doesn't come about.

[Ben Shapiro]

Until the 1960s or so. And brain death is dubious because often what happens in the case of medical harvesting of organs is, is it's not that the person dies and then you harvest the organs and you donate them to someone else. It's that the harvesting of the organs is what literally kills the person, which.

[Michael Knowles]

Creates a lot of ethical problems. In any case, an American man just.

[Ben Shapiro]

Received a heart from a 38 year.

[Michael Knowles]

Old Canadian who killed himself. Is this the kind of market that.

[Ben Shapiro]

We want to be encouraging? I make jokes about Canada being America's evil top hat all the time.

[Michael Knowles]

I don't actually want to kill them.

[Ben Shapiro]

All and harvest their organs.

[Michael Knowles]

That's a bridge too far. That's taking the joke a little bit.

[Ben Shapiro]

Too far, wouldn't you say?

[Michael Knowles]

Okay, if most people there are gonna be liberals who say, no, it's fine, it's good this man had a disease and he made the choice to kill himself.

[Ben Shapiro]

And because the only moral criterion of liberalism is consent, then he has the right to do that, because liberalism presumes.

[Michael Knowles]

The idea of self ownership, the idea.

[Ben Shapiro]

That we own ourselves, which is not true.

[Michael Knowles]

Not true at all. Because of all of that, they're gonna.

[Ben Shapiro]

Say, well, this is fine.

[Michael Knowles]

What's wrong with it now?

[Ben Shapiro]

An American man gets a heart out of it.

[Michael Knowles]

I don't know.

[Ben Shapiro]

I think more people though, the conservatives and the moderates, are gonna say, hey.

[Michael Knowles]

Suicide is bad and we shouldn't encourage.

[Ben Shapiro]

It and we definitely shouldn't be profiting from it.

[Michael Knowles]

And we shouldn't open up markets in.

[Ben Shapiro]

The organs of the people we've encouraged through the law to kill themselves in other countries.

[Michael Knowles]

You see how this could go wrong real fast. But it started with such good intentions. I'm speaking to the kind of moderate.

[Ben Shapiro]

Conservative or liberal who said, ah, you.

[Michael Knowles]

Know, grandpa really was having a hard go of it at the end there.

[Ben Shapiro]

And maybe it was okay to, to have a medical assistance in dying, also known as suicide. Maybe suicide's okay in some cases.

[Michael Knowles]

We just don't want to let it get too far.

[Ben Shapiro]

We don't want to let the slippery slope slip down too far.

[Michael Knowles]

This was always there.

[Ben Shapiro]

This was inevitable.

[Michael Knowles]

We were always in this place where.

[Ben Shapiro]

If you make the Faustian bargain, if you compromise on moral issues, even for good intentions, this was inevitable.

[Michael Knowles]

Maid in Canada has existed for like.

[Ben Shapiro]

Five minutes so far. We're already harvesting the suicide.

[Michael Knowles]

Suicide's organs.

[Ben Shapiro]

Not good.

[Michael Knowles]

I think we need to do something about that here. Okay, now you know how the government's shut down. A lot of people had forgotten. Now we're starting to feel a little pain of it.

[Ben Shapiro]

We are going to speak with the chairman of the Republican Study Committee momentarily.

[Michael Knowles]

First, I wanna tell you about yaff. It is shocking. It is a scandal that more people.

[Ben Shapiro]

Have not heard of yaff's National Journalism Center. There is not a more consequential and important pipeline from college into conservative media than NJC.

[Michael Knowles]

It boasts a 12 week internship training.

[Ben Shapiro]

Program that is fully paid and gives you access to the best reporters and personalities in the business. It also sticks you right in a working newsroom. In the first week, you want to be at the center of the nation's biggest political stories. NJC is the fastest way to do it. We've had reporters here at the Daily Wire who have attended NJC and launched their professional careers immediately. Our NJC alumni have pursued stories relentlessly, like taking pictures from a helicopter to exposing a dodgy Texas community development marketed exclusively to illegal immigrants. Their reporting was featured on Ben Shapiro's podcast, but more importantly, it was featured.

[Michael Knowles]

On my podcast as well as Fox.

[Ben Shapiro]

News and a host of other prominent media outlets. This reporting from DailyWire's NJC alumni has created real, tangible change and put concrete wins on the board for American Patriots. It all traces back to NJC's internship journalism bootcamp, which covers everything you need to break into media, whether you're interested in podcasting, video production, print reporting, or independent journalism. More important, if you are tired of the fake news in the lib media and you want to win, get off the sidelines and get into the game. Submit your application to the National Journalism center today.

[Michael Knowles]

I am very pleased to to be joined right now by Congressman August Pfluger from the great state of Texas, chairman of the Republican Study Committee here to remind us one that the government is, in fact shut down and to get to what some of the consequences of that shutdown could be, notably on military readiness. Congressman Pfluger, thank you for coming on the show.

[Congressman August Pfluger]

Michael, thanks for having me. And thanks for highlighting these issues. Unfortunately, we have to do that now.

[Michael Knowles]

So, Congressman, I know the conventional wisdom is Republicans get blamed for shutdowns. Maybe that will happen in the long run. But of all the shutdowns that have happened in my lifetime, this one I think is most clearly owned by the Democrats. The Republicans have unified government. The Republicans offered a clean continuing resolution just to keep the government going as other issues are ironed out. This is exclusively a Democrat. Now, Chuck Schumer believes that the longer the shutdown goes on, the better it is for Democrats. He said that it's been reported now for days. I think for most of us, we haven't really noticed the government shutdown. And I think a lot of people would say this is a good opportunity to fire some people and maybe shrink the government. Okay. Now, however, it seems to be impacting military readiness.

[Ben Shapiro]

Tell us about that.

[Congressman August Pfluger]

Well, you're right. And I'll get to the military radio just to answer your question, though. I mean, you heard a senior Democrat aide say, until planes fall out of the sky, we're not going to open the government back up. So they're owning it 100%. And how disgusting of a comment that was. We had a clean cr. We did our job in the House. And now Senate Democrats under Chuck Schumer's distasteful leadership have voted eight times to not fund the government, to not fund the military. And I'm a veteran. I flew combat missions in Iraq and Syria. You know, I was on active duty during several shutdowns. They hurt readiness. They hurt your ability to focus on the threat on the missions. Because now commanders are having to worry about where their troops, their young enlisted and young Officers, how they're going to put food on the table and take care of their families. I mean, think about the soldier who's deployed right now with a young family, maybe a baby at home. You know, a lot of our troops are on food stamps, and they're worried about that. They're not worried about doing the mission. They're worried about taking care of their family, and rightfully so. So absolutely, it hurts mission readiness, it hurts our focus, and it hurts our national security.

[Michael Knowles]

The fact that troops are on food.

[Ben Shapiro]

Stamps is a national disgrace, frankly.

[Michael Knowles]

That needs to be addressed in a different way. But on the point of the paychecks, there is reporting out now that the military might miss a paycheck. These military families who, even if they're not totally destitute, they need those paychecks. Is that going to happen? What is the administration and Republicans in Congress, what are they doing to prevent that? And what do the Democrats have to say about it?

[Congressman August Pfluger]

Well, we've seen recently where President Trump stepped up, did the right thing, told Secretary Higseff to find the money and to make sure that they get paid on the 15th of this month. So, you know, that's, that's a big deal that they did that because that has not happened in the past. But they're taking money out of other pots, out of, you know, other sources where, you know, probably for operations and readiness and mission type money. So it's not going to last forever. You know, most, most of our military personnel get paid on the 15th and at the, you know, the end of the month. So this isn't going to last forever. And if Democrats keep up this theater, which it is, make no mistake, this is political theater at its very worst, then they will miss a paycheck eventually. I'd like to know where my Democrat colleagues are, those that served, the veterans on the Democrat side. Where are they? Why are they not stepping up right now and rising above the noise and doing the right thing? Because guess what? When, when Nancy Pelosi was speaker and when Joe Biden was president, Republicans didn't shut the government down? And where are they? Where are they right now? Why are they not doing the right thing? I'm so disappointed in them.

[Michael Knowles]

Are Democrats going to object to the.

[Ben Shapiro]

Republicans who are trying to find money.

[Michael Knowles]

Borrowing from Peter to pay Paul to.

[Ben Shapiro]

Make sure that the military actually are paid?

[Michael Knowles]

Are Democrats gonna try to impede that?

[Congressman August Pfluger]

I mean, can you imagine Chuck Schumer leading the charge, saying, that's illegal. You can't pay the troops. I mean, what kind of Idiot would do that. But, yeah, I mean, I would not put it past them. I mean, this is exactly what Democrats do. You fix a problem and then they find another way to lie about it, to have deceit about it, to do something completely. Well, I was gonna say another word, but to do something that doesn't make any sense at all.

[Michael Knowles]

You know, listen, it's a family show. We try to keep it clean. And sometimes I'm tempted, too, though. So before I let you go, Congressman, how long is this gonna go on for? I mean, you know, the Republicans open up with, we're gonna have a clean cr. So we're not trying to cram our stuff into this continuing resolution. But Democrats wanted to cram their stuff in. Notably, Republicans highlighted healthcare for illegal aliens. But, okay, fine, you know, we're in this fight now. What is the end of this fight? If Chuck Schumer sincerely believes that the longer it goes on, the better it is for Democrats, then is the government gonna reopen next week, the week after, two months from now? And whenever it does reopen, what's the deal going to be?

[Congressman August Pfluger]

Well, first off, I think Mike Johnson is doing a great job. We've done our job. We've voted to fund the government. It's the simplest thing. This was a Joe Biden signed budget or an auto pen signed budget. So this is a budget that Democrats already voted on. So how do they now come to us and say, well, we can't vote on it now because, well, no, actually this was Biden's budget. So I think there's probably one of a couple of ways. Number one, Senate Democrats need to get over their theater and just do the right thing. And assuming that doesn't that happens, the stalemate. Okay, so assuming that doesn't happen, they're conflating several things and they're putting these ACA premium subsidies in there. They want us to fund illegal immigrants into health care, which we've said, absolutely not. I mean, these are hundreds of billions of dollars in ways. So I think probably what ends up happening is President Trump will probably have to save the day and bring people together like he's done and make some sort of deal. But let's make one thing clear. The prize for Democrats opening the government is not going to be ACA subsidies. We will negotiate on things like that when we get the government open. But they're not going to hold us hostage like this and laugh at the American people and say, look, we just, you know, we just did this political stunt and now we get something out of It. No. I'm sorry, but the American public is tired, my district especially is just tired of the lies and tired of the games. They want us to go to Washington and do what we said we were gonna do, which is what has happened. And I think this is the Democrats only shot to stop Donald Trump because he is the only president who has done everything he said he would do.

[Michael Knowles]

Yeah. There's this problem for the Dems, which is they keep saying the people are on our side.

[Ben Shapiro]

And, you know, we're gonna.

[Michael Knowles]

We're the resistance, the voice of the people. But the people voted for Trump. And it wasn't just that he won the Electoral College, which is ultimately all that matters. He won the popular vote. And the Republicans have the House and the Senate and the presidency. And because they keep winning the presidency, they have the Supreme Court. And just at a certain point, the Democrats probably need to get the message that most of the people are not on your side. And I agree this is pretty desperate. I also agree that you can't give in to the Democrats, especially on the healthcare stuff, because it just rewards them. It gives them an incentive to do this kind of thing again. It's a real thorny issue. And I suspect you're right that the White House is gonna have to step in and twist some arms and make.

[Ben Shapiro]

Some carrots and sticks.

[Michael Knowles]

Congressman Pfluer, thank you so much for coming on the show.

[Congressman August Pfluger]

Thanks for having me. I appreciate it. God bless.

[Ben Shapiro]

All right, we'll see.

[Michael Knowles]

Maybe we'll have Congressman pfluger Back on 2 months when this government is still shut down. Okay. Much more to say about assisted suicide.

[Ben Shapiro]

Actually, even on the American side of it. On a wonderful ceremony yesterday at the White House when my friend Charlie Kirk received the Presidential Medal of Freedom. There's even more poetry coming up.

[Michael Knowles]

October is packed with new releases on.

[Ben Shapiro]

Dailywire, and tomorrow night's a big one. The premiere of Friendly Fire. Join me, Ben Shapiro, Matt Walsh, Andrew Clavin.

[Michael Knowles]

Unscripted. Unfiltered. Sexy. No moderators, nothing off limits.

[Ben Shapiro]

Live at 7pm Eastern. Plus special appearances from Isabel Brown and the first look at the Pendragon cycle.

[Michael Knowles]

It all kicks off tomorrow night.

[Ben Shapiro]

Do not wait.

[Michael Knowles]

Join now.

[Ben Shapiro]

Get 40% off a new annual membership with code [e-mail] My favorite comment yesterday is from Martha C8529 who says, I.

[Michael Knowles]

Find it funny when Trump says stuff.

[Ben Shapiro]

Like I was being a little cute.

[Michael Knowles]

Lol. It's such an unassuming way of talking. Yeah, I like it. People, even on the right have hated.

[Ben Shapiro]

That since 2016, since he started running.

[Michael Knowles]

And that stuff doesn't bother me at all. It's very familiar because, well, it's not high minded. It's not abstract. It doesn't require multiple degrees to know what Trump is doing.

[Ben Shapiro]

He just talks like a New Yorker. That's how New Yorkers talk.

[Michael Knowles]

And I think if more of the Republican establishment had just been familiar with that in 2016, it would have saved.

[Ben Shapiro]

Us a lot of rancor.

[Michael Knowles]

Okay. Turning to electoral politics on this issue of assisted suicide, here is Abigail Spanberger, the Democrat member of Congress who's now running for governor of Virginia. Here is her take on assisted suicide.

[Abigail Spanberger]

I support and I would support legislation that legalizes the right to die with dignity of a person's choosing. And that would include allowing for medical providers to provide prescriptions for life ending prescriptions in the cases of someone who's deemed medically competent to make that decision, mentally competent to make that. That decision. I oppose the ability of religious institutions to put their religious based ideas on individuals and their health care choices and options. I believe that we should trust people to have relationships with their healthcare providers that lead them to make strong decisions based on their medical practices. And I do not believe that people should have the option to allow their own personal beliefs to dictate the type of medical care that they are providing their patients.

[Michael Knowles]

What, what was that last part? I don't believe that doctors should let.

[Ben Shapiro]

Their beliefs impact their the medical care they're providing.

[Michael Knowles]

What do you go to a doctor for? You go to a doctor for his.

[Ben Shapiro]

Judgment, for his wisdom, because he is the expert, because he knows something that you don't know.

[Michael Knowles]

What does that mean? It's just some stupid liberal bromide. I don't think that doctors should let their beliefs and thoughts impact what they do. Well, then what the hell are you hiring them for? Why? I want them to advance my beliefs and thoughts. Oh, okay, Got it. So it's not that you advance some kind of neutral, objective, liberated order. You just think that your evil ideas should supersede the medical views of medical.

[Ben Shapiro]

Professionals and the ethical views of medical professionals.

[Michael Knowles]

This is sick stuff. This woman is a sick person. Abigail Spanberger. She continues to endorse Jay Jones for Attorney General. I mean, they're essentially running on a ticket. And Jay Jones is the one who.

[Ben Shapiro]

Was discovered to have been wishing for.

[Michael Knowles]

The murder of his Republican opponent and the opponent's kids and said that the birth of those children was breeding little fascists.

[Ben Shapiro]

This woman supports that.

[Michael Knowles]

So at least she's consistent. She Supports killing babies in the womb. She supports killing Republican babies outside of the womb and she supports killing grandma and people who are mentally ill and people who are sick and people who are depressed. So, okay, I guess she's consistent. She wants to kill like everybody. And this is the moderate. That's what makes it interesting to me. Not that the Democrats have evil views, it's that she's the moderate. Abigail Spanberger. When the Democrats were talking about abolishing police, Abigail Spanberger said, no, I don't.

[Ben Shapiro]

Think we should abolish police.

[Michael Knowles]

When the Democrats were trying to stop Republicans from reducing crime in D.C. abigail.

[Ben Shapiro]

Spanberger said, no, we shouldn't reduce punishments.

[Michael Knowles]

For the criminals in D.C. during COVID.

[Ben Shapiro]

When the libs were locking down the.

[Michael Knowles]

Whole world, Abigail Spanberger was one of those who voted to end the COVID national emergency. There were not that many Democrats who did that. When the Democrats were saying everything Trump does is evil.

[Ben Shapiro]

Abigail Spanberger was one of the people who supported Trump's rewriting of nafta, the USMCA trade deal.

[Michael Knowles]

She is, relative to the Democrats, a moderate. And still she supports government promoted, government protected doctor, encouraged suicide and the murder of Republicans and our children, not to mention killing babies in the womb and.

[Ben Shapiro]

All the rest of it.

[Michael Knowles]

The most moderate Democrat in the country today is like a communist compared to.

[Ben Shapiro]

The Democrat party of even 20 years ago.

[Michael Knowles]

That's not to say that the Republican.

[Ben Shapiro]

Party has not in some ways moved to the right.

[Michael Knowles]

It has, let's say this is the right, this is the left. I'll describe this for you if you're only listening over time. Yes, the right has moved a little bit to the right.

[Ben Shapiro]

The left has moved so, so far to the left that they would minimize, excuse and even celebrate the murder of the assassination of a right wing political debater. And they would refuse to withdraw endorsements from a would be law enforcement top official Attorney General of Virginia who wishes for the murder of Republicans and our kids. Assisted suicides or you know, killing the vulnerable.

[Michael Knowles]

That is totally kosher with these guys.

[Ben Shapiro]

Okay, Speaking of Charlie, speaking of Charlie.

[Michael Knowles]

Kirk yesterday, beautiful ceremony at the White House.

[Ben Shapiro]

Charlie was awarded the Presidential Medal of Freedom and his widow Erica showed up to receive the award. And there was this great moment of levity as Erica was mustering an incredible amount of strength to be able to. Can you imagine, can you imagine a widow, especially a young husband with little.

[Michael Knowles]

Kids speaking at anything at a luncheon.

[Ben Shapiro]

This shortly after her husband's murder and she gets up at the White House speaking to the entire world and she manages to find a moment of levity with the president.

[Erica Kirk]

God when it was costly, but that's what we're called to do. Surprisingly enough, he did pray for his enemies, which is very hard, but he did, he did, he did.

[Michael Knowles]

For those who can't see it.

[Erica Kirk]

TRUMP LAUGHS I mean, I saw him.

[Michael Knowles]

And he throws his hands in the air.

[Erica Kirk]

I never did it in front of anyone else, but I can attest to that secret.

[Michael Knowles]

When he's laughing, he's really.

[Erica Kirk]

He also loved people when it was in.

[Michael Knowles]

You can tell he's really getting a kick out of it. And it's really. This was a great little line from Erica, but it also shows Trump's humility and also, I think Trump vindicates my view of when Trump said, Charlie said.

[Ben Shapiro]

Pray for his enemies, he wanted the.

[Michael Knowles]

Best for his enemies. I hate my enemies and I don't want what's best for them.

[Ben Shapiro]

Then you had all these pearl clutching.

[Michael Knowles]

Christians who said, he doesn't understand the true gospel and he doesn't understand someone needs. He's making a joke, guys. It's a joke.

[Ben Shapiro]

It's a nice little moment of levity.

[Michael Knowles]

He's saying, Charlie, even if he legitimately struggles with willing the best for his.

[Ben Shapiro]

Enemies, which might be the case, he's.

[Michael Knowles]

Saying, Charlie did that. He is better than me. He's in heaven looking down angrily at me right now.

[Ben Shapiro]

He's saying, I'm not worthy. Lord have mercy on me, a sinner.

[Michael Knowles]

That's good.

[Ben Shapiro]

And he's laughing here. When Erica makes this joke, it's really nice. The even more beautiful aspect of the award, which was well deserved, was on the back of it. Do we have a clip of it? If you look on the back of the Presidential Medal of Freedom, it says Charles James Kirk and there's a cross engraved on the back, which I think is the first time ever that a medal of freedom has come with a cross engraved on it. That's really beautiful. And you know, if you try to see the silver lining in the storm cloud of Charlie's murder, that's it, right? There are a handful of good reactions amid a lot of horrible reactions. But the real silver lining is this return to church. I've seen it personally multiple times, as have a lot of people, this increased concern for religious truth and also I think, a deeper understanding of freedom. When the story of this is all.

[Michael Knowles]

Written.

[Ben Shapiro]

It will be significant that Charlie was wearing a shirt that said freedom. He's wearing a shirt that said Freedom.

[Michael Knowles]

And that word is so abused that.

[Ben Shapiro]

We tend to kind of laugh at it today. So here we go. Another platitude about freedom in the abstract. But that's not really how Charlie viewed freedom. Charlie, coming from a Christian perspective, understood that freedom is not just doing whatever you want. That freedom has discipline to it. Freedom is grounded in the truth. I think increasingly conservatives are coming to that. He wasn't the only one who had come to that conclusion. Increasingly we're coming to that conclusion.

[Michael Knowles]

That's how we used to understand it in American history.

[Ben Shapiro]

Then we went through a fever in the late 20th century where we started to think freedom meant doing weird sex stuff and doing a bunch of drugs and letting criminals roam the streets. And we thought that was freedom. It's not. It's not. And the gods of the copy book headings come back again to educate us. And the true freedom is found in Christ. Perfect freedom is found in Christ. Christ says the truth will set you free. He says, take up my. Take my yoke upon you. But my yoke is easy and my burden is light. If you would follow me, pick up your cross. Paradoxically, that's the kind of freedom. Because the truth sets you free. Lies enslave you. The wages of sin is death. All sin is a kind of a slavery. We're coming to recognize that again, that it's this kind of shallow, negative view of liberty where it's just freedom from interference so that we can go engage in whatever deviant, aberrant desires we want and behaviors that we want. That's kind of silly one, because you can never be totally free from interference because we live in society. The only true kind of freedom involves substantive goods and ultimately it's perfected in Christ and the truth will set us free. This is why people are ditching the false ideologies, especially the sexual ideologies is it's a lie and it enslaves people.

[Michael Knowles]

That connection. This is the first time ever in.

[Ben Shapiro]

The history of the Presidential Medal of Freedom that you see a connection between this word freedom and the perfection of freedom. What freedom really means.

[Michael Knowles]

When this story is written, that's going.

[Ben Shapiro]

To be very significant. The author of this story did a really good job pointing that out.

[Michael Knowles]

Okay. There's a story I really, really want.

[Ben Shapiro]

To get to because it's an excuse to read another poem. It comes from the Washington Post that people once again are terrified of dying alone.

[Michael Knowles]

It's another one of those gods of the copy book headings coming back saying.

[Ben Shapiro]

We went into this hyper individualism that said we don't need anybody. We should get divorced. We should live on our own. We should ignore our families. We should ignore our friends. We should just do whatever we want. You do. You just focus on me. Self care. Look out for number one. And now people are returning to an age old fear of dying alone. But I think everyone is missing the point on this. And I'll leave you on that cliffhanger because maybe we'll get to it tomorrow. Today is woke Wednesday. The rest of the show continues now. You do not want to miss it. Become a member. Use code knowlescan at WLAS at checkout for two months free on all annual plans.

[Erica Kirk]

Sam.