The Michael Knowles Show

Episode 1840 – Trump Is Winning The Shutdown Fight
Date: October 22, 2025
Host: Michael Knowles
Guest: Chad Meisel (Former Chief of Staff, DOJ)

Episode Overview

This episode dives deeply into the political and cultural landscape following President Trump's unprecedented success in a government shutdown standoff. Host Michael Knowles analyzes why this shutdown is materially different from past ones, the shifting public blame game, and the remarkable legal and political maneuvers from the Trump White House. In the second half, he interviews Chad Meisel, the recently departed Chief of Staff for the Department of Justice, for exclusive insights into high-profile prosecutions, court rulings, Antifa cases, immigration enforcement, and the elusive Epstein files.

Key Discussion Points and Insights

1. A Turning Point for Republicans in Shutdown Politics

• Never Won Before: Knowles opens (07:09) by marveling at how Republicans have historically "always lost" government shutdown fights, but now, "Republicans are finally winning," marking a new political precedent.
• CNN Admits the Shift: He quotes CNN approving Trump’s resilience, noting that "the shutdown hasn't eaten into Donald Trump's support at all... his net approval rating is actually up a point" (04:14).
• Blame Dynamics: Unlike 2018-2019, the public now places less blame on Trump—a majority blamed him "a great deal" before, but now the blame is spread or shifted (04:42).

Notable Quote:

"Republicans have never won a government shutdown fight...But I said, I think they're overplaying their hand. I think this is a little bit different. Trump won the popular vote. Trump has unified government." – Michael Knowles (02:29)

2. Collapse of Media Credibility and New Political Imagination

• Media Pantsed: The mainstream outlets that “got the election wrong” and “sold the lie” are now tuned out by liberals and conservatives alike (06:10).
• Call for Political Imagination: Knowles invokes Cardinal Manning:

  "There is a time to come that will confound the confident judgments of men." (06:53)

• More than Partisan Victory: The win represents not just political momentum but a “different world” in which old rules no longer apply; Knowles warns this could cut both ways (“We might have a civil war...I am not a catastrophizer…” 07:36).

3. National Guard Deployment and the ‘No Kings’ Protests

• Legal Authority Upheld: Trump’s deployment of the National Guard to Democrat-controlled cities like Chicago and Portland was ruled legal by the 9th Circuit Court of Appeals (09:08).
• Left’s Protest Shifts: Knowles lampoons the “no kings” protests as incoherent, given Trump’s legal authority and popular backing on crime, immigration, and economics.
• Media and Judicial Narrative: Points out that Democrats now also protest Congressional and judicial authority, framing it as essentially protesting “you”—the voting public (11:18).

Notable Quote:

“They’re not protesting Trump...They are protesting you. And they're getting very, very nasty about it.” – Michael Knowles (12:28)

4. Case Study: Chicago’s Response

• Mayor’s Rhetoric: Chicago’s Mayor accuses Trump of declaring “war on the city” by sending the National Guard, making demands for more federal funding while complaining about “tyranny” (14:01).
• Knowles’ Analogy: He satirically compares this to historical wartime: “How many warring nations pay for all their opponents’ luxuries and public resources?” (16:42)
• Failure of Local Leadership: Critiques the mayor for demanding resources while failing basic obligations of public safety and education.

5. Dehumanization and Liberal Rhetoric

• Robert De Niro Example: Plays and dissects De Niro’s televised comments painting Trump as an “alien” who “wants to hurt people,” exposing left-wing dehumanization tactics (19:00).
• Double Standards: Asserts that liberals “justify political violence” and end relationships over politics, behaviors not reciprocated by conservatives (21:53).

Notable Quote:

“Every accusation is a confession with these people...He is no human. He’s an alien. He wants to hurt people.” – Michael Knowles, quoting and critiquing Robert De Niro (19:16)

6. Media ‘Nontroversies’ and the “Russian Tie” Incident

• Absurdity Highlighted: Knowles mocks media outrage over the Secretary of War wearing a red, white, and blue (i.e., also Russian) tie as epitomizing baseless attacks (24:30).

7. America’s Executive Power and Monarchy Discussion

• Comparative Strength: Argues the American presidency is “more powerful than any monarch ever” and not so crazy that Americans might pine for monarchy (28:45).
• Historical Parallels: Draws from Roman and early American examples to explain the executive's strength and how current dynamics reflect regime types.

8. DOJ Insider: Chad Meisel Interview (35:33–56:23)

a. Prosecuting the Powerful:

• New Standards: The DOJ under Trump, led by Pam Bondi, is moving swiftly to indict establishment figures (James Comey, Letitia James, John Bolton, etc.), reversing what Meisel calls the “one-sided lawfare” of the previous administration (36:10–39:57).
• Accountability as Norm Restoration:

  “To hold you to account is not merely retribution … it’s also a way to get back to the old standard that we had...” – Knowles (37:12)

b. Epstein Files: Fact vs. Conspiracy

• No Evidence Found: Meisel dispels rumors of secret black books and videos in the Epstein case:

  “We didn’t find any of that...We just don’t have evidence.” – Chad Meisel (42:31)

• Conspiracies vs. Court Proof:

  “They have theories, they have conspiracies, they have conjectures...But when it comes time to proving your case...we just don’t have anything.” – Meisel (43:20)

c. Antifa as Organized Terror

• Coordinated Attacks: Describes DOJ investigations uncovering Antifa group chats, organized firearms stockpiles, and planned attacks (“20 firearms, shot a cop in the neck… material support for terrorism…” 47:27).
• Left’s Gaslighting: Critiques left-wing denials that Antifa exists or is organized.

d. Immigration and Deportations

• “All of the Above” Tactics: DOJ and other agencies are coordinating to deport illegal immigrants, with unprecedented results, though numbers from the Biden era remain daunting (50:50).
• Judicial Obstacles: Chronic federal judge opposition requires Supreme Court intervention at record rates (“22 times we’ve had victories from the Supreme Court…” 53:33).

Notable Exchange:

Knowles: “Is it the case that one out of 700 district judges has the right to overrule the White House on matters of law enforcement?”
Meisel: "You would think so, based on how everybody is acting… But our win rate [at the Supreme Court] 90%." (53:10)

e. Judicial Gaming

• Judicial End-runs: Judges now use “nationwide class certification” as a workaround to the Supreme Court’s injunction limits, a tactic the DOJ is fighting (55:37).

Select Notable Quotes and Memorable Moments

• “[The media] have been revealed to be total liars…Covid, I think, especially proved them to be liars.” – Knowles (06:12)
• “Trump, you are legally allowed to send the National Guard in to restore cities, in blue cities, to restore safety…” – Knowles (09:29)
• “The TDS is…a widespread and fatal disease. Robert De Niro has contracted a worse case than just about anyone.” – Knowles (18:54)
• “We didn’t find any of that…No black book, no video evidence…If there was evidence, we would go after them.” – Chad Meisel on the Epstein investigation (42:31)
• “Law enforcement is coming to America. Justice is being served. That’s what Trump promised…” – Meisel (39:36)
• “The numbers just don’t add up. Given how many illegals Joe Biden let into the country, we can’t do it…so you’ve got to come up with other ways.” – Meisel (52:08)

Timestamps for Key Segments

• Main Theme & Shutdown Reflections:
  02:27–07:36
• Media Credibility & Political Imagination:
  07:36–09:54
• National Guard & No Kings Protests:
  09:54–13:50
• Chicago Mayor’s Rhetoric & Response:
  14:01–18:40
• De Niro and Dehumanization:
  18:54–22:00
• Media ‘Nontroversies’ (“Russian tie”):
  24:30–26:31
• Monarchy, the Powerful Executive, and U.S. Regime Discussion:
  26:31–33:41
• Chad Meisel Interview – DOJ & High-Profile Prosecutions:
  35:33–39:57
• Epstein Investigation Details:
  42:17–45:49
• Antifa as Organized Domestic Terror:
  47:27–49:16
• DOJ Immigration & Deportation Tactics:
  50:49–53:10
• Judicial Obstacles to Enforcement:
  53:10–56:23

Conclusion

This episode offers a thorough, unapologetically partisan breakdown of why, in Michael Knowles' view, 2025 marks a dramatic turning point in American political dynamics. For those seeking an insider account of how the Trump administration wields executive power, pushes back against entrenched media and judicial narratives, and pursues aggressive accountability both against illegal immigration and alleged political lawbreakers, this episode provides both rhetorical ammunition and detailed operational insight.

For listeners seeking specific details on DOJ prosecutions, the status of the Epstein case, or inside baseball on Antifa lawfare and federal court showdowns, refer to the Chad Meisel interview segment beginning at [35:33].