Father REFUSES to Let Autism Define His Son – Emotional Interview with Leland Vittert

Summary

Podcast Summary: The Michael Knowles Show

Episode: Father REFUSES to Let Autism Define His Son – Emotional Interview with Leland Vittert
Date: November 26, 2025
Host: Michael Knowles (The Daily Wire)
Guest: Leland Vittert, Chief Washington Anchor at NewsNation, host of On Balance, and author of Born Lucky: A Dedicated Father, Grateful Son, and My Journey with Autism

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Overview

In this heartfelt and insightful interview, Michael Knowles speaks with journalist Leland Vittert about his personal journey with autism, the unique parenting approach his father took, and how that experience shaped his life and career. Focusing less on political hot takes and more on personal triumph, the episode explores themes of resilience, the pitfalls of modern "identity-first" culture, and the extraordinary agency parents have in guiding their children through adversity.

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Key Discussion Points and Insights

Childhood Diagnosis and Parenting Philosophy

• Leland's Autism Diagnosis:
  • Diagnosed at age 5-6 with symptoms including behavioral issues, sensory overload, and a “70-point spread” on IQ tests—far beyond the threshold for a learning disability (03:23).
• Parent Response:
  • The professionals told his father there was "not much you can do" (03:23), but his father refused to accept this verdict.
  • "Born Lucky" Philosophy: Instead of adapting the world to Leland, his father focused on adapting Leland to the world, with no accommodations, extra time on tests, or special treatment (05:39).
  • Leland's father never told him or others directly about the diagnosis growing up (05:39), forcing Leland to navigate the world as it is.
• Social Skills as a Learned Process:
  • Leland describes how his father would take him to lunch with adults, use subtle cues (like tapping his watch) to indicate social faux pas, and later break down social interactions in detail—like “watching game film” (01:26, repeated 05:39).
  • They role-played conversations so that Leland could learn how to read social cues and adapt (05:39).

Contrasting Past and Present Approaches to Autism

• Modern vs. Past Mindset:
  • Knowles observes, “It's the exact opposite approach that everyone is taking now... people want the world to bend to their eccentricities” (04:51).
  • Leland affirms, “Dad’s idea... was sort of the opposite of the coddling, the coddling of a child” (07:34).

Autism in Today’s Culture

• Trends and Misdiagnosis:
  • Both note the surge in self-diagnoses and “identity-first” culture—Leland jokes, “Yeah, I was autistic before it was cool” (02:53).
  • Knowles critiques people using undiagnosed “autism” to excuse bad behavior (02:57).
• The Science and Mysteries of Autism:
  • Leland: “I have absolutely no insight because I'm not a doctor... Born Lucky is not a prescription... It's a father-son love story to give parents the hope my parents did not have” (10:06).
  • Diagnoses have soared from 1 in 1,500 children to 1 in 31 (10:16), with disparities across gender and socioeconomic lines—“We don't know what it is. And boy, I think it should be the scientific question of our time” (10:16).
  • Leland calls out politicization that inhibits genuine progress (10:16).

The Emotional Cost and Triumphs

• Childhood Struggles:
  • Leland shares traumatic incidents, including extreme bullying from both classmates and teachers ("If my dog was as ugly as you, I would shave its and make it walk backwards" – unnamed teacher, 10:16).
  • His father focused on building self-esteem through discipline (e.g., “200 pushups a day, five days a week, starting when I was six or seven” 10:16).
• Parental Sacrifice:
  • Leland reveals how, every night, his dad would spend hours putting him back together after school bullying, followed by his father weeping alone—“every night... he would sit in the living room by himself and cry for hours” (14:35).
  • His father never wanted autism to become Leland’s excuse or sole identity (14:35).

Career Choices and Openness

• Choosing Journalism:

  • Knowles asks why Leland would pursue the most social/performative profession given an autism diagnosis (12:30):
  • Leland explains: “It was one of the few professions that just yielded to hard work... hard work really paid off, especially early on in journalism” (12:30).
  • Leland also discusses his late-in-life openness, going public only after decades and 20+ years of “practicing to hide it” (14:35), motivated by parents who reached out after reading his book and by the hope it gives them (13:14).

• Not Defining by Diagnosis:

  • Despite sometimes still slipping up, Leland notes, “My dad said... my son's not gonna be defined by a diagnosis, but he's not gonna be able to use it as an excuse either” (14:35).

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Notable Quotes and Memorable Moments

• Leland Vittert (02:53):
  “Yeah, I was autistic before it was cool.”
• Michael Knowles (04:51):
  “It's amazing, because it is the exact opposite approach that everyone is taking now... people want the world to bend to their eccentricities.”
• Leland Vittert (05:39):
  “Dad realized from the beginning I wasn't going to have any friends. So he said, in his words, maybe I can be your friend.”
• Leland Vittert (10:16):
  “Born Lucky is not a prescription. It’s not a cure. It’s not an autism book. It’s a father-son love story to give parents the hope that my parents did not have.”
• Leland Vittert (13:14):
  “What I view as the success here is the hundreds of emails I have gotten from parents who say, thank you for writing this. We know we’re not alone and you’ve given us hope... Born Lucky is hope and proof of the power of great parenting. And nobody’s talking about that right now.”
• Leland Vittert (14:35):
  “My dad said... my son’s not gonna be defined by a diagnosis, but he’s not gonna be able to use it as an excuse either.”

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Important Timestamps

• Leland’s Childhood Diagnosis and Parental Strategy – 03:23 to 05:39
• Game Film Approach, Social Skills Training – 05:39
• Cultural Critique of ‘Letting Your Freak Flag Fly’ – 09:01
• Surge in Autism Diagnoses, Scientific Questions – 10:16
• Bullying and Early Struggles – 10:16
• Parental Sacrifice and Emotional Toll – 14:35
• Decision to Pursue Journalism and Public Openness – 12:30, 13:14
• Closing Reflections on Parenting and Agency – 13:56 to 16:33

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Tone and Style

The conversation is candid, admiring, and laced with self-deprecating humor. Leland is remarkably open about his difficulties and growth, while Knowles respectfully highlights the broader cultural and parental implications. The dialogue pushes back against the modern trend of identity-based exceptionalism, instead championing personal responsibility and the unsung heroism of dedicated parents.

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Conclusion

This episode is a testament to the transformative power of tough, loving parenting and relentless perseverance. Leland’s experiences illustrate both the pain and potential in raising children with challenges—messages magnified by the vulnerability he shares and the practical hope his story provides. For parents facing similar circumstances, the episode offers rare encouragement: Your actions matter greatly.

Final call to action from Michael Knowles:
“You have to get the book, is what I’m saying. All of that to say. You have to get the book right now. Born Lucky, a dedicated father, a grateful son, and my journey with autism.” (16:33)

Transcript

[Leland Vittert]

So good, so good, so good.

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[Leland Vittert]

He would take me to lunch with his friends and I'd interrupt and all of a sudden start asking, if we were out with you, Michael. I'd start asking, Mr. Knowles, you know, hey, you know, how do you book your guests? And how do you know when to switch subjects during your monologue? And what do you pick? How do you pick what's there sitting on on your desk right now? And my dad would tap his watch and that was my signal to A, stop talking, but to B, bookmark that moment. And then we'd go back almost like watching game film. Michael was talking about his kids. Why'd you interrupt him to talk about his sponsors? I don't know, dad.

[Michael Knowles]

I'm very excited to talk to my friend Leland Vitter, who I'm trying to think if. You know, I've been on Leland's show a number of times on his shows a number of times. I'm trying to think this might be Leland's debut. Cause Leland, he's like a serious news guy. So he's not just one of these fluffy commentator, influencer type. He's like a serious news guy. So I don't know that we've had him on the show, actually. He is the host of On Balance with Leland Vittert. He is the chief Washington anchor for news Nation. But the thing that I really want to talk to him about right now is that he is the author of Born Lucky, A Dedicated Father, Grateful Son and My Journey with Autism. Because I've known Leland at this point a pretty long time, and I never knew that Leland was diagnosed with autism. And now autism is in the news. Frankly, everyone wants to claim to be autistic. That's like the new hip thing. So, Leland, thank you for coming on.

[Leland Vittert]

Michael, good to see you. Yeah, I was autistic before. It was cool.

[Michael Knowles]

It's amazing. Cause I have so many friends who now they just. Anytime they do anything weird or a little awkward, they say, I hey, bro, it's my autism. It's hip, it's cool. And I also have had friends who legitimately are on the autism spectrum at different spots along the way, some a little more severe than others. And I did not. How did you hide your autism for decades?

[Leland Vittert]

Well, that's the Born lucky story, right? So when I was about five or six years old, my parents were told they needed to have me evaluated. They took me to one of those little medical testing centers. We've all been there. You're a father, Michael. You know how scary those words are to hear that about your child. So they. They sit there for a couple of hours with the old magazines in the stale coffee. The woman comes back and says, this kid's got a lot of problems. Behavioral issues. You know, there was no chance I could go to a birthday party or play with other kids. If a kid would touch me at school, I'd turn around and slug them. Big sensory issues. You know, if a socks were something I didn't like, or a jacket felt weird, whatever it was, I would melt down. And then they gave me an IQ test, which is two halves of an IQ test equals your IQ. It's an average. A 20 point spread is a learning disability. I had a 70 point spread between the two halves of my IQ test. And the woman said to my parents, it is very hard to understand what is going on inside his head, meaning my head. And with that, my dad goes, what do I do? And the woman said, there's not much you can do. So Born Lucky is the story of how my father adapted me to the world, rather than the world to me. And it is hope for every parent of a kid, not just with autism, but every kid having a hard time.

[Michael Knowles]

That is an amazing story. And it's amazing because it is the exact opposite approach that everyone is taking now. I mean, first of all, the fact that people who are not in any way autistic, but who, I don't know, have all the human foibles and deficiencies that everyone has, they'll try to excuse it and, in fact, make the world bend to their eccentricities by saying, well, hey, I'm autistic when they're not. The fact that you actually had a pretty severe diagnosis and your father just said, well, all right. Kid's gonna have to make it in the world. You know, world ain't slowing down, so we're gonna have to adapt him to the world. One, it's common sense that we haven't heard in a very long time. But two, I'm curious. How did he do it? How did you do it?

[Leland Vittert]

Well, look, dad realized from the very beginning I wasn't going to have any friends. So he said, in his words, maybe I can be your friend. He never told me about my diagnosis, Never told teachers, never told therapists. There was never any accommodations or extra time on tests or anything like that. This was, if you're going to make it in the real world, you got to start making it in the real world right now. And it was hard for a very long period of time for me to have my dad teach me at a very granular level, the emotional and social fabric of the world and how people interacted. I hate to use the word normally, but dad would basically say, if you want to interact in the world, you gotta interact the way the world does. And learn that you can't try to expect the world to adapt to you. So one of the things that's in Born Lucky is he would take me to lunch with his friends, and I'd interrupt and all of a sudden start asking if we were out with you, Michael. I'd start asking Mr. Knowles, because it was always Mr. And Mrs. I started asking Mr. Knowles, you know, hey, you know, how do you book your guests? And how do you know when to switch subjects during your monologue? And what do you pick? How do you pick what's there sitting on your desk right now? And my dad would tap his watch, and that was my signal to, A, stop talking, but to B, bookmark that moment. And then we'd go back almost like watching game film, and go. And he'd replay those moments. All right, so when Michael was talking about his kids, why'd you interrupt him to talk about his sponsors? I don't know, dad. Okay, well, how could you have asked Mr. Knowles something that he would have been interested in? And then we would role play that conversation. So dad's Idea here, as you pointed out, was sort of the opposite of the coddling, the coddling of a child.

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[Leland Vittert]

Mm.

[Michael Knowles]

I should have sped up here, eh? That was a kind of a weak story, eh? Doot doo. And over time, with any job, anything, you get a little better and better and better. And yet the one area that we're told you can't do that in is in our, you know, I don't know, our identity, our authentic selves, our, you know, our personality, I guess there we're told, let your freak flag fly and expect the world to bend to you. And so. Wow. So this would have been, I guess it was the 90s, right, is when all of this is going down.

[Leland Vittert]

Yeah. Late 80s, early 90s.

[Michael Knowles]

Yeah. So, you know, I guess this is before the real wave of personal identity politics like totally took over the world. Now, autism in particular is a really hot issue and you're hearing Bobby Kennedy talking about it. People aren't taking Tylenol anymore. Apparently Tylenol causes autism.

[Leland Vittert]

I Don't know all of these.

[Michael Knowles]

So do you have any thoughts on the issue itself? One, that's a great question. Yeah. Do you have any insight on where it comes from, how to treat it?

[Leland Vittert]

It's a fair question. And I have absolutely no insight because I'm not a doctor, I'm not a scientist, and I have the chemistry grades to prove it. Right. Born Lucky is not a prescription. It's not a cure. It's not an autism book.

[Michael Knowles]

I.

[Leland Vittert]

It's a father, son love story to give parents the hope that my parents did not have. That said, you think about what's happened with autism diagnoses from 1 in 1500 kids when I was diagnosed with what we now know to be autism now to 1 in 31, three times higher for boys, even higher still in poor and minority communities. There's a reason for that. We don't know what it is. And boy, I think it should be the scientific question of our time. You know, Born Lucky is the darkest, most awful parts of my life. You know the teacher in eighth grade who said in front of the entire art class, if my dog was as ugly as you, I would shave its and make it walk backwards. If the teachers are doing that. Yeah, yeah. Think about that, Michael. If the teachers are doing that, you know what the kids are doing. So this was as bad as it got. But my dad's quest was to try and work through this, right? And starting with teaching me how to have self esteem. 200 pushups a day, five days a week, starting when I was six or seven years old. Cause I wasn't gonna be good at anything else. So all of those moments, if somehow we can prevent future generations from going through the hell that I did, then absolutely, why wouldn't we want to find the answer to those questions? And I think it's sort of personally offensive in some ways that there are people who'd rather score political points than find the answers to these questions. Because they sort of hate Trump more than they love whatever the future generations could hold.

[Michael Knowles]

Yes. Now. Okay, last question before I let you go. You had this really brutal diagnosis and all this tougher upbringing that happily really paid off. But it meant that in some ways, you endured an even harder time than other people who were diagnosed with autism do. Because you didn't get any excuses, you didn't get any accommodations and helped you in the long, but hurt you in the short run. What would possess you? If you have this kind of distinguishing feature of your childhood, which is an autism diagnosis, what would possess you to choose to go into communications, the single most difficult field for someone with autism.

[Leland Vittert]

Glutton of punishment, I guess. I think two things, Michael. One, my dad never told me about my autism diagnosis. So this was never like, oh, by the way, here you are, and still will never allow me to use it as an excuse. But the second part of that was it was one of the few professions that just yielded to hard work, right? I wasn't gonna be a scientist or a doctor cause I wasn't good at chemistry or biology. I wasn't gonna be a lawyer cause I wasn't good at writing and had other learning disabilities. So hard work really paid off, especially early on in journalism. What I thought you were gonna ask is why after not telling anybody, would you decide to go to therapy on national television at 43 years old?

[Michael Knowles]

That's my follow up question.

[Leland Vittert]

Oh, that's your follow up? Well, I'll answer it for you. Which is really. This has been about helping people and the book's been out for about a month. It's very easy, as you know, from being a very accomplished author yourself, to talk about sales. What I view as the success here is the hundreds of emails I have gotten from parents who say, thank you for writing this. We know we're not alone and you've given us hope. Not hope that our kid's gonna become a news anchor. Whatever the kid's dealing with, from nut allergies to ADHD to anxiety, whatever it is. But Born Lucky is hope and proof of the power of great parenting. And nobody's talking about that right now. Nobody is talking about the power and the agency that parents have to help their kids be more.

[Michael Knowles]

Yes, I know. It's one of the reasons I really wanted to bring you on to talk about this book is, look, you look at the numbers and you say, okay, that means there are all these kids dealing with these problems. That also means that number of parents who don't know what to do, who are in some cases being giving really bad advice, really bad information, who are seriously suffering. When your kid is suffering, that's a much worse pain than anything you personally are gonna go through. And so I think it's a wonderful, wonderful message, a great instruction manual to give to them. But you mentioned you never heard about your diagnosis growing up. So when did you hear about it?

[Leland Vittert]

So when I was in my 20s, my parents sort of started talking to me about, hey, by the way, when you were a little boy, you were diagnosed with autism. And if autism sort of came up or there was news about it or Whatever. It became something we talked about. You talk about what parents are going through. Something I never knew until we interviewed my mom and dad for the book. You know, there were nights that my dad would put me to bed and every night he would spend a couple of hours with me, sort of putting me back together after the bullying and the humiliation and the difficulties that went on at school. And he would walk down from my bedroom almost every night, down to the living room, 10, 11 o' clock at night. I would either go to do homework or be crying myself to sleep or whatever and he would sit in the living room by himself and cry for hours. And my mom would come out 12 o' clock in the morning and find him there. So, you know, you talked about the hell that parents are going through because of this. And I think the other part of this with my father is he never wanted me to see myself as differently. He never wanted me to be able to use autism as an excuse. And you know, you sort of pointed out at the beginning of this interview you never knew this. Well, I've spent 20 or 25 years, maybe longer learning and practicing how to hide it. You know, 30, 30 plus years really in practice. But in the real world now, now 20 years and I, there's times I still slip up. You know, there was a time just a couple of months ago that I was playing golf with my, my father in law and was very rude to somebody. I'll, I'll save your listeners the story. But it, it was like back being in eighth, you know, an eight year old again, I couldn't look him in the eye, I couldn't and stopped doing what I was doing. I was totally task focused on and on and my email to him that I sent to say I'm sorry I was so rude to you, didn't say, oh by the way, that's my autism. Because my dad said, you know, my son's not gonna be defined by a diagnosis, but he's not gonna be able to use it as an excuse either.

[Michael Knowles]

Yeah, it's amazing. It's really, it's really inspiring. I mean the fact that basically, you know, you wouldn't have to tell a friend and a friend wouldn't know is like pretty crazy. And then the fact that in your career you've reached the heights of broadcast journalism, been on TV and so both in very personal interactions, but even millions of people looking at you wouldn't know. I mean that is an amazing inspiration to people who feel like this is the end of their lives or the end of their children's lives or something. You have to get the book, is what I'm saying. All of that to say. You have to get the book right now. Born lucky, a dedicated father, a grateful son, and my journey with autism. Leland, thank you for coming on the show. Appreciate it.

[Leland Vittert]

Thanks, Michael.

[Michael Knowles]

Good to see you, sir. Okay. And good to see all of you. I'm Michael Knowles. This is the Michael Knowles Show. I will see you tomorrow. On the Matt Walsh Show. We talk about the things that really matter, real issues that affect you, your family and our country. We don't just focus on politics, but also culture and current events. If you're looking for a daily dose of realism mixed with sarcasm, come check out the Matt Walsh show, streaming on Daily Wire plus at 1:30 Eastern Time. See you there.

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