Episode Overview

Title: "I Was Given To A Man When I Was A Child" Michael & The Sharia Survivor | Sabatina James
Air Date: December 6, 2025
Host: Michael Knowles (The Daily Wire)
Guest: Sabatina James – author, human rights advocate, “Sharia Survivor”

Michael Knowles sits down with Sabatina James, an outspoken critic of political Islam and advocate for persecuted Christians, to hear her harrowing journey from a Pakistani village, through forced marriage and religious persecution, to finding freedom, faith, and a new calling in the West. The episode explores the realities of honor-based violence, the challenges of apostasy, the failures of Western institutions to support vulnerable refugees and converts, and the spiritual differences between Islam and Christianity. Sabatina shares candidly about European and American naïvete regarding Islamism, her organizational work, and her observations on faith communities in the West.

Key Discussion Points and Insights

1. Sabatina’s Early Life in Pakistan and Forced Marriage Arrangements

[03:33 - 05:45, 22:00 - 25:15]

• Sabatina describes being born into a religious family in a small Pakistani village; her grandfather was an imam.
• At birth, she was promised in marriage to her cousin—a common practice in Pakistan to maintain control and “honor” within families.
  • “In my case, I was promised to my cousin when I was born… Extremely common in Pakistan.” (22:00, Sabatina)
• Honor-based violence and punishments for perceived offenses (e.g. women refusing arranged marriage, wearing lipstick, victims of rape often punished rather than perpetrators).

2. Moving to Austria: Culture Shock and First Encounters with Christianity

[05:05 - 10:40]

• Sabatina emigrates to Austria as a child, shocked by Western norms (e.g., women having children out of wedlock and not facing violence).
• Striking contrast between how victims are treated in her native culture vs. Christianity’s reverence for Jesus’ own suffering.
  • “The most striking difference between the world shaped by Muhammad and the world shaped by love.” (09:21, Sabatina)
• Seeds of her later conversion were sown by seeing Jesus on the cross everywhere.

3. Life in European Muslim Communities & Demographic Change in the West

[14:00 - 19:21]

• Transition from Catholic Austria to more diverse German-speaking cities, where Muslim populations were increasing.
• Observations on Muslim “parallel societies,” expansion of Islamic education, declining native birthrates, and policies of cultural accommodation.
  • “Muslims don’t need jihad to conquer the West. They just need the West to keep apologizing for who they are while they push their agenda.” (15:46, Sabatina)
• Accusations of “Islamophobia” as a tool to silence dissent and criticism.

4. The Reality of Sharia, Apostasy, and Forced Conformity

[11:11 - 13:48, 19:55 - 21:12, 68:04 - 69:21]

• Sabatina describes the doctrinal hostility in Islam towards Christianity, apostasy, and freedom of conscience.
  • “The Prophet Muhammad said: whoever changes his religion, kill him.” (19:55, Sabatina)
• Apostasy is punishable by death under Sharia. Converts are customarily given a few days to recant under threat.
  • “Normally you get three days. That’s Sharia law... If they don’t, then you kill them.” (01:58, Sabatina)
  • This warning was delivered to Sabatina in person, by family and a religious scholar, after her conversion.

5. Sabatina’s Struggle for Autonomy and Encounter with Christian Faith

[24:08 - 47:35]

• As a teen in Austria, Sabatina’s “integration” into local life provoked conflict: swim/theatre classes, friendships with boys.
  • “Every little freedom that everyone around me had, I had to fight for. And unfortunately, there was always a lot of violence in my family.” (24:55, Sabatina)
• After returning “home” for a supposed vacation, she was imprisoned, enrolled in a madrasa, and forced into engagement with her cousin.
• Return to Austria leads to further struggles, culminating in her meeting with “Joseph,” an evangelical Christian who introduces her to the Bible.
• Her conversion: internal wrestling between the cost of following Jesus and love for her family:
  • “Jesus was a God of challenge, either all or nothing. For a lot of Muslims... you lose everything... It’s like suicide.” (57:09, Sabatina)

6. Comparing Jesus and Muhammad—Theological and Human Contrasts

[51:10 - 54:03]

• Sabatina highlights the differences in how Jesus and Muhammad handle sinners, enemies, and violence:
  • “An adulterous woman is brought to Muhammad—stoning. The same is brought to Jesus—mercy… Muhammad said ‘kill the infidels,’ Jesus says 'love your enemies.'” (52:44, Sabatina)
• She finds spiritual resonance in Christianity’s compassion and sacrificial love, distinguishing it from the legalism and violence of her upbringing.

7. Rejection, Homelessness, and Finding Spiritual Home

[63:34 - 76:09]

• Family disowns Sabatina; her mother: “If I had known you’d become like this, I would have killed you when you were an infant.” (64:23, Sabatina, emotional moment)
• Sabatina becomes homeless, recounts support from shelters, social workers, and evangelical Christians who studied Islam to support new converts (contrasted with Catholic indifference encountered).
• Repeatedly exposed to violence, legal manipulations (falsified marriage), ongoing threats from family.

8. Public Advocacy, Foundation Work, and Ongoing Threats

[77:16 - 87:31, 90:54 - 93:24]

• Sabatina establishes a foundation aiding victims of forced marriage, apostasy, and persecution—particularly Christian converts in Muslim societies.
• Returns to Pakistan undercover to aid victims, despite imminent mortal danger.
  • “There can be no courage without vulnerability. You need to make yourself vulnerable for the sake of truth.” (134:33, Sabatina)
• Operation Moses, rescuing Christian and Hindu girls abducted and forced to convert.

9. The Condition of Christianity in the West—Therapeutic, Self-Focused, Weak

[97:38 - 99:40, 106:09]

• Critique of the Western church’s comfort, self-focus, and lack of sacrificial love.
  • “The persecuted live for Jesus. The church in the West lives for themselves—with Jesus.” (98:12, Sabatina)
• Disconnect between the realities of the persecuted church and western complacency.

10. Western Naïveté and the Parallel Societies Problem

[113:13 - 117:32, 121:36 - 123:11]

• Americans' good-natured optimism and ignorance toward realities of radical Islam.
  • “Dear Americans, I love you. But you are probably the most inclusive and the most naive people on planet Earth.” (113:20, Sabatina)
• Normalization of Sharia-based parallel systems in Europe, including honor-based justice, happening now in US immigrant communities.

11. The Political Project: Islamism, Leftist Coalition, and the West’s Response

[119:58 - 127:40]

• Why leftists and Islamists make common cause: mutual opposition to Christianity.
  • “They have a common enemy, which is Christianity. That’s what multiculturalism is at its core.” (120:03, Sabatina)
• Analysis of New York Mayor Mamdani as a case study: “will work for the furtherment of Islam, not the people who voted for him.” (123:49, Sabatina)
• The mistaken assumption that American Muslims will automatically assimilate.

12. The Cost and Call to Action

[134:04-end]

• Suffering, vulnerability, and courage as necessary to defend truth and faith.
• A call for Western churchgoers to pray and stand up for the persecuted, not just “live for themselves.”

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On arranged marriage/honor violence:
  “I come from a culture where girls are killed over wearing a lipstick… People can't wrap their head around this.” (24:55, Sabatina)

• On seeing Christ on the cross:
  “The first revelation of Christianity to me... was Jesus on the cross present in every classroom… That to me was the most striking difference between the world shaped by Muhammad and the world shaped by love.” (09:21, Sabatina)

• On European accommodation:
  “Muslims don't need jihad to conquer the West. They just need the west to keep apologizing for who they are while they push their agenda.” (15:46, Sabatina)

• On American naivete:
  “But you are probably the most inclusive and the most naive people on planet Earth.” (113:20, Sabatina)

• On Western Christianity:
  “The persecuted live for Jesus. The church in the west lives for themselves—with Jesus.” (98:12, Sabatina)

• On the difference between Christ and Muhammad:
  “An adulterous woman is brought to Muhammad, stoning. The same is brought to Jesus, mercy. Muhammad said, kill the infidels wherever you find them. Jesus says, love your enemies.” (52:44, Sabatina)

• On the naivete toward parallel societies:
  “America today is like what Europe was 15 years ago. And I think America is going to go down quicker because there’s a greater naivete.” (121:36, Sabatina)

• On courage and vulnerability:
  “There can be no courage without vulnerability. You need to make yourself vulnerable for the sake of truth.” (134:33, Sabatina)

• On standing with the persecuted:
  “Every family should make it a habit to say at least one Our Father for the persecuted church every single day.” (107:43, Sabatina)

Important Segment Timestamps

• [03:33] Sabatina’s background: Birth, family, early arrangement to cousin
• [09:21] Examining the difference between societies shaped by Islam/Muhammad and Christianity/Christ
• [19:55] On apostasy, Sharia, and threats enforced by family/religious authority
• [24:55] Culture of honor violence in Pakistan
• [35:10] Western human rights movements' failure to address radical Islam’s abuses
• [47:06] Sabatina receives a Bible, begins spiritual journey to Christianity
• [52:44] Contrasting teachings and examples of Muhammad and Jesus
• [64:23] Emotionally charged account of being disowned and threatened by her mother
• [77:16] Launching her foundation for persecuted Christians and forced marriage victims
• [87:31] Undertaking dangerous humanitarian missions in Pakistan
• [98:12] Diagnosis of Western Christianity’s self-focus
• [113:20] Calling out American naivete toward Islam
• [134:33] On the necessity of vulnerability and courage to be a “peacemaker”
• [107:43] Concrete call for Western Christians to pray for the persecuted

Final Reflections

This episode provides a raw and powerful look into the realities of forced marriage, honor violence, apostasy, and the deep spiritual and cultural divides between Islamic and Western societies, as lived by Sabatina James. It challenges the West’s self-image and complacency regarding religious freedom, identity, and the responsibilities of Christian solidarity. Sabatina’s story and her advocacy demand a more honest engagement, not just with the threat of radical Islam in the West, but also with the authentic demands of faith and sacrifice.