"I Would Hit Myself In The Face With A Hammer" Michael & The Looksmaxxer | Clavicular

Summary

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The Michael Knowles Show

Episode: "I Would Hit Myself In The Face With A Hammer" – Michael & The Looksmaxxer | Clavicular

Date: December 27, 2025
Host: Michael Knowles
Guest: Clavicular (Looksmaxxing influencer, live streamer, content creator)

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Episode Overview

This candid, at times provocative, conversation between Michael Knowles and the online personality Clavicular delves deep into the controversial world of "looksmaxxing"—an extreme subculture focused on maximizing physical attractiveness, often through pharmaceutical, surgical, and unconventional means. The episode explores Clavicular's personal journey, the broader sociocultural context that gave rise to the looksmaxxing movement, and the philosophical, spiritual, and political dilemmas tethered to this hyper-individualistic quest for self-improvement. Brutal honesty, self-deprecating humor, and a surprising degree of mutual candor structure this dialogue, making it a unique window into both Generation Z anxieties and broader civilizational challenges.

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Key Discussion Points and Insights

1. What is Looksmaxxing? (02:34–05:21)

• Definition: "Looks maxing is the furthest extent that you could take self improvement." (Clavicular, 02:55)
  • Goes beyond bodybuilding to pursue facial, bodily, and even surgical enhancements as the ultimate self-improvement.
  • Emerged from online forums with a masculine slant, particularly as dating migrated online.
• Face Over Physique: Looksmaxxing prioritizes facial aesthetics over traditional gym culture.
  • “The face is more important than the physique.” (03:24–03:46)

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2. Clavicular’s Personal Story: A Relentless Path to 'Ascension' (04:38–13:47)

• Early Teen Experimentation: Clavicular began using testosterone and other performance enhancers at age 14 to “masculinize” his face, optimizing growth for a “super physiological puberty.”
  • “Once your growth plates close, there’s nothing you can do.” (05:21)
• Family and Medical Pushback: Parents tried to intervene but Clavicular persisted, sourcing drugs online and hiding them.
  • "I'm just someone who's willing to do whatever needs to be done." (11:14)

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3. The Social Media Dating Economy and 'Ascension' (12:25–18:21)

• Dating & Economics Shift: Online dating has hyperinflated the value of looks, raising the perceived barriers to romantic success; now, everyone competes with the “Chads of the world."
  • “It’s not just the top chads of your 15 mile radius…you’re competing with the entire world.” (17:20–18:00)
• Looks vs. Wealth: Clavicular argues that, for most men, it’s more realistic to improve appearance than to become wealthy or acquire high status.
• The Halo Effect:
  • “People are going to perceive the things that you say and the things that you do a lot better if you're good looking.” (20:05)

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4. Methods of Looksmaxxing: From the Mundane to the Extreme (22:56–27:06)

• Strategies:
  • Basic (working out, dieting, tanning)
  • Intermediate (injecting testosterone and hormones)
  • Extreme (elective double jaw surgery, bone smashing)
    • “Bone smashing” involves hitting oneself to induce facial bone growth.
  • “I’m getting a double jaw surgery [soon]. That’s probably the furthest it goes.” (24:37)
• Why Go Further?
  • Beyond practical reasons like dating or jobs, Clavicular admits he wants to “mog”—to dominate or outshine others, especially men.
  • “I just want to mog people. I want to have a better halo effect and just better overall quality of life through my looks.” (27:06)

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5. Vanity, Value, and the Spiritual Critique (28:23–31:17; 34:12–36:18)

• Vanity vs. Purpose:
  • Knowles pushes on whether this pursuit is just vanity; Clavicular largely embraces it as a means of personal satisfaction and social power.
  • “Isn’t looksmaxxing just vanity?”—Knowles (28:23)
  • “A mogger is someone who’s…the peak human. And that’s in all metrics.” (28:44)
• Spiritual Dimensions:
  • Knowles asks, does looksmaxxing conflict with the spiritual/religious life?
  • Clavicular: “I don’t really have too much regard for the spiritual aspect when I’m trying to looks max.” (30:51)

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6. Dating, Balance, and the Paradox of Hyper-Individualism (31:17–36:18)

• Clavicular is single, not interested in a girlfriend due to career focus and his streaming work.
  • “I really wouldn’t have the time to be an interesting partner for any woman, that’s for sure.” (33:24)
• Dating as a Grind: The transactional, time-consuming nature of dating is juxtaposed against the supposed ROI of continued self-maximization.
  • “It’s never an hour…We’re already like down two hours, right?” (34:12)
  • “If I had an extra hour a day, I would be using it at the gym.” (33:44)
• Knowles wonders if this all points to a lack of balance—a neglect of cultivating other loves or pursuits beyond self-improvement.

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7. Online Culture, Pornography, and the New Standards of Beauty (58:24–62:33)

• The ubiquity of porn is blamed for distorting beauty norms and further pushing the population to focus only on the physical.
  • “One of the evils of pornography is it reduces people…merely to the physical.” (60:22)
• Clavicular denounces pornography yet acknowledges that looksmaxxing shares the focus on physicality.
  • “That, yeah, it’s not far from the truth…but it’s just what needs to be done in society.” (61:38)

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8. Politics, Accelerationism, and the Doomer Mindset (67:25–91:06)

• Political Hopelessness:
  • Clavicular espouses a kind of blackpilled accelerationism—believing the right is ineffective, politics is mostly performative, and society will (and should) get worse before it can get better.
  • “That’s just how it is…You might as well adapt to the times…” (67:25)
  • “Individualism is good. Adapt to the society that we live in because that’s the highest chance of success.” (72:02)
• Public vs. Private Responsibility:
  • Knowles argues passionately for communal action, the necessity of politics, and charity—contrasting it with the hyper-individualism advocated by looksmaxxing.
• Election Prediction: Clavicular, emphasizing the supremacy of looks and charisma, insists Gavin Newsom will become president, defeating less-attractive candidates—regardless of policy.

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9. The Toll and Ethics of Extreme Looksmaxxing (78:11–82:09)

• Bone smashing, drugs, and elective high-risk surgery are all justified in pursuit of maxing out appearance, with Clavicular expressing little empathy for those who fail or fall through the cracks.
  • "Sometimes in my political activism I would rather hit myself in the head with a hammer, without question." – Knowles (79:30)
  • “Bone smashing is legit…You can find this stuff online.” (78:49)

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10. Drug Use, Physical Limits, and Health Risks (119:47–125:18)

• Clavicular is open about using meth, cocaine, acid, and steroids—justified for "leanness" and productivity, but not recommended for most.
  • “Maybe I traded like some neurotoxicity for temporary leanness to ascend really quickly.” (121:14)
• Admits most methods are not sustainable for average people and carry real health risks.

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11. Self-Improvement vs. Charity, and the Limits of the Looksmaxxer Philosophy (105:08–117:32)

• Charity and Empathy:
  • Knowles contends that without charity, no self-improvement will yield true flourishing or happiness.
  • “You could have every single virtue…and if you lack charity, you have nothing.” (106:57)
• Clavicular’s Response: He cares for men’s issues, but only for those “willing to help themselves,” dismissing wider societal or charitable concern as an inefficient “cope,” and often decries systemic help for addicts or the destitute.
• Flourishing and Happiness: Knowles draws parallels to ancient philosophy and suggests that true eudaimonia (flourishing) is impossible with a solely material focus.

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12. Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• Clavicular on the drive for self-improvement:
  “I just want to mog people. I want to have a better halo effect and just better overall quality of life through my looks.” (27:06)
• On the limits of political change:
  “I don’t think I can do anything. I don’t think anyone watching can do anything. I don’t think it’s likely that even someone with as big of a reach as you can…” (81:10)
• Knowles on spiritual and communal duty:
  “How about I don’t mind my own business, actually? How about my business is my community and I have a right to enforce standards and norms that are good and traditional and conducive to flourishing?” (75:25)
• Clavicular’s controversial method:
  “I used to use a hammer, but my parents would go into my bathroom and take it away.” (78:39)
  "You would hit yourself in the head with a hammer?" – Knowles
  "Yeah." – Clavicular (78:48–78:49)
• On politics and looks:
  “Gavin Newsom obviously mogs him [JD Vance] to death.” (82:53)

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13. Closing: Self-Improvement Without Balance is Hollow (136:12–139:11)

• Knowles challenges the self-improvement dogma, highlighting the value of charity, spiritual growth, balance, and cultural enrichment.
• Clavicular acknowledges the ideal in theory—marriage, monogamy, and humility—but insists on the "realism" of society's trajectory, advocating adaptation above reform.
• A humorous but poignant moment:
  • "Sometimes in my political activism I would rather hit myself in the head with a hammer, without question." (79:30)

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Timestamps of Key Segments

• [02:34] – What is looksmaxxing?
• [04:38] – Clavicular’s origin story, teenage hormonal self-experimentation
• [12:25] – Online dating, the rise of the 'global Chad'
• [20:05] – The “halo effect” explained
• [24:37] – Elective surgery: “I’m getting a double jaw surgery”
• [27:06] – The mogging drive
• [30:51] – Spirituality and looksmaxxing
• [33:44] – “If I had an extra hour a day, I would use it at the gym…not date.”
• [58:24] – Pornography and its effects on beauty standards
• [61:38] – Looksmaxxing and dehumanization
• [67:25] – Political black pill “accelerationism”
• [78:48] – “You would hit yourself in the head with a hammer?” – “Yeah.”
• [81:10] – “I don’t think anyone can do anything…”
• [105:08] – “One thing that would appear to be missing… is concern for other people.”
• [112:10] – Eternity, meaning, and priorities
• [117:32] – “That’s…a generally positive thing to improve those metrics [looks, money, status].”
• [121:33] – Meth, drugs, and the cost of ascension
• [136:12] – Final advice: cosmetic “fixes,” maintaining hair and leanness

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Episode Tone and Takeaways

• Tone: A blend of blunt honesty, generational tension, dark humor, and moments of surprising introspection.
• Takeaway: Looksmaxxing, in its most extreme online form, represents a profound kind of cultural and spiritual alienation—a search for meaning in a hyper-competitive, atomized, visual world. Knowles challenges the wisdom of this path, advocating for balance, tradition, and charity. Clavicular personifies the hyper-rational—and often nihilistic—mentality of his cohort, pushing adaptation over reform and individualism over community or spirituality.

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For listeners, the episode offers a visceral look into one of the strangest and most extreme self-improvement cultures online, grounded by a debate over what makes life—individual and societal—truly worth living.

Transcript

[A]

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[B]

Looks maxing is the furthest extent that you could take self improvement. This principle follows wolf's law that a bone is going to grow back stronger.

[A]

You would hit yourself in the head with a hammer.

[B]

Yeah, bone smashing is legit, but there.

[A]

Are different ways you can improve yourself.

[B]

Right? But what's going to actually get you further in life?

[A]

What is looking better for 4 I.

[B]

Am someone who just wants to MOG. Essentially. I'm getting a double jaw surgery in a couple weeks from now. So that's probably the furthest it goes.

[A]

You do math.

[B]

Maybe I traded like some neurotoxicity for for temporary leanness to ascend really quick.

[A]

On Michael. And I've had the privilege of sitting down with people from a wide variety of backgrounds. Priests, exorcists, scientists, refugees. Never before though have I sat down with a looks maxed meth head livestream cell. And I have that distinct privilege today with my new friend clavicular. How's it going Mr. Ikuler, it's wonderful to have you on the show.

[B]

Thank you so much for having me. Mike.

[A]

There is so much I want to get into with you.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

Even all those parts of your title. But I want to start with the most obvious, the most apparent to most people which is that you're a good looking guy. I don't think that makes me gay to say you're a good looking guy. You have intentionally become a good looking guy. You have looks maxed. What is looks maxing?

[B]

Looks maxing is the furthest extent that you could take self improvement. Right? So we've seen a lot of, you know, different forms of that over the years. Mostly with bodybuilding, I would say was. Was the main one for a while for men from about 2010 up until 2020. And then it sort of shifted into looks maxing. That kind of crept into the space from different niche, you know, forums, especially those of psl, which is.

[A]

Was just three pumpkin spice latte, obviously.

[B]

No, just three looks maxing forums. So that influence kind of crept in and it's very obvious that, you know, the face is more important than the physique. So people were doing the self improvement and it wasn't really getting them the results that they needed. So that's why the further step needed to be taken to sort of go about improving upon your entire life.

[A]

So there are all these bodybuilding forums and you say, well, what about this phrase, the butter face? You know, but you hear about the, but you never hear about butter body. So you draw the conclusion from that, that, hey, you guys are all working out to build up your bodies, but the face is more important to physical attractiveness.

[B]

Absolutely.

[A]

So that's what distinguishes just working out and hitting the gym and bodybuilding from looks maxing.

[B]

It's just adding an extra layer.

[A]

Right.

[B]

I'm someone who hugely advocates for still going to the gym even though I might have been taking a little bit of time off recently.

[A]

I've taken about a decade or so.

[B]

Yeah. So no worries, we're on the same page there. But I'm just adding that extra layer, that extra piece of key nuance that I feel like has out of the equation for the longest time, especially in a lot of like the manosphere discussion. Looks hasn't really been, you know, mentioned and it just seems kind of silly to me.

[A]

Can I ask how old you are?

[B]

19.

[A]

You're 19. Correct. So you're very young.

[B]

Yep.

[A]

And you're talking about this development of the looksmaxing self improvement world. When did you get into this?

[B]

When I was 14 years old. You know, I was someone who was on these bodybuilding forums. I started taking exogenous hormones, testosterone, when I was 14. And then it became more of a shift from bodybuilding oriented stuff like we talked about before. Say this happened to a lot of people into more lux maxing stuff over the years.

[A]

You're 14, you're going through puberty, you're getting a nice injection of testosterone the old fashioned way. Why did you do that?

[B]

For facial masculinization. Just optimizing all of my growth pathways so that I could have like a super physiological puberty. Right. So you know, you could do a lot with pharmaceutical intervention. So taking those steps at an early age is kind of like it's a now or never mentality. Right. So once your growth plates close, there's nothing you could do.

[A]

What's so fascinating about that answer is that's like the right wing version of the transgender argument. The pro trans people are always saying, I gotta take the cross sex hormones when I'm 13 or 14, because if I wait until I'm 18 or 20, it'll be all closed off and I'll never look like the opposite sex. And what you're saying is, well, I had to take all these exogenous hormones when I was 14 so that I could look like the most gigachad version of my own sex.

[B]

Right? Yeah, no, of course. So it's the exact opposite. And you'll hear a lot of criticism for, like the stuff that I talk about from the left, which is quite ironic. So I'm glad you brought that up.

[A]

So what does it mean? So you start taking testosterone.

[B]

Right.

[A]

Okay. Before we get into what your parents said about this, what your doctors said or didn't say about this, you're a 14 year old kid. 14 year olds go through a lot of problems, a lot of self image issues, girls and boys. Why? Why did you do this when most 14 year olds don't?

[B]

Well, so I'm a bit of an autist, right. So I was just like, there's this thing that could get me to my desired physique quicker. Like, why wouldn't I do that? It wasn't like your typical 14 year old who goes on Instagram and sees like, you know, a picture of David laid or like Chris Bumstead and it's like, oh, like I want to look like that guy. I'm just like, well, objectively this is going to get me. They're quicker. So why would I not, you know, are there. That was kind of the mentality.

[A]

Are there downsides though? Are there side effects?

[B]

Of course, yeah. No. So there's a lot that can go wrong if you're not very careful with, you know, using anabolic steroids, obviously. So I was someone who did my due diligence and made sure things didn't go horribly wrong. There's certainly things I could have went about better. And I wish I had a more comprehensive understanding before I, you know, decided to go this route. But, you know, we're here now and for those reasons, with how complex it is, I don't openly advocate for anyone to do this. Right. I think A lot more people are gonna wind up themselves over, excuse me, screwing themselves over if they are to go this route rather than, you know, if they were to decide, you know, to stay natural.

[A]

What do you regret? You say, there's some things I wish I'd done differently, would have turned out.

[B]

Differently, just not taking certain pharmaceuticals. I wish I would have, you know, had a little bit more IGF1 in the protocols, just for example.

[A]

So just what's the effect of that though?

[B]

IGF1 is an important hormone for development. So just if I were to take that, that would be a little bit better, but I couldn't afford it at the time, so I would have just gone about that a little different.

[A]

But there was nothing where you'd say, I really messed this part of my body up. You just say, I wish I'd gone further.

[B]

Right. Yeah.

[A]

So you start taking these steroids. Are you still taking them?

[B]

Yes, I'm just on trt.

[A]

What's trt?

[B]

Testosterone replacement therapy.

[A]

Yes. Yeah. Okay. You hear about like 50 year old guys doing that.

[B]

Yeah. Well, it seems a little ridiculous that to optimize my testosterone levels to where they realistically should be as a male, I have to wait until I'm like 30 years old. Is like the common cope that you hear on the Internet. And testosterone levels have been declining rapidly across generations. So I'm kind of just placing myself where we, you know, evolutionarily should be.

[A]

Okay, so looks maxing then is when you shoot up a bunch of pharmaceuticals.

[B]

No, that's not. Look, that's, you know, my iteration of looks maxing is just kind of doing whatever it takes. Like the rich piano mentality. That's not really what I advocate for because again, with all these complexities, you could wind up yourself over and how so? Well, you know, take testosterone, for example. You could deal with hair loss issues, you could deal with acne, you could, could deal with gynecomastia. You have to really carefully manage a ton of different hormones and a ton of different interactions inside your body.

[A]

You have to forgive my ignorance, I know nothing about this. What is gynecomastia?

[B]

That is, you know, the glandular tissue and your nipples growing. Yeah. So I guess, I think the term I've, I've heard a lot of people use is so.

[A]

Yeah, no, I don't want that.

[B]

Yeah, so you don't want that. That's what I mean. And you know, if people were to just go around blasting tests without a comprehensive understanding of this stuff, that's what would happen, you know, but there are mechanisms that you could leverage to make sure this doesn't occur. But once again, most people won't have the foresight to go about it the right way.

[A]

So when you learn all this stuff online and you're on all these forums and you say, okay, this is how I'm gonna look really good, and you start getting the testosterone, did your parents ever object to that or.

[B]

Yeah, they would take it away all the time.

[A]

And where did you get it?

[B]

Just on the Internet. So yeah, there were, there was like a time where I went like hypogonadal for a month or two just because they took my testosterone sash. But I made sure that never happened.

[A]

Hypogonadal, Hypogonadal.

[B]

Like, I didn't have any testosterone production just for like a month or two. And that was probably the worst two months of my life. Yeah, you know, having, having zero male sex hormone. You have no libido, no sex drive. So, yeah, just making sure to avoid that is very important.

[A]

So your parents, you get into this on the Internet, you order the drugs on the Internet, you start taking the drugs. Your parents finally find out about this and they say, hey, stop doing that. What did they tell you?

[B]

Well, they would just take it away. Say, no more steroids. Like take away the Xbox. Classic stuff. But I'm just someone who, you know, is willing to do whatever needs to be done. So I would just reorder it to P.O. box instead. Like, you know, a lot of people will come after my parents for the things that I did, but realistically, no one was stopping me. I was committed to my goal and I wasn't going to let anyone get away.

[A]

So why was that your goal? Because I see the point on self improvement and ambitious young men want to improve themselves. But there are different ways you can improve yourself. There's the physical way, there's spiritual improvement, there's mental improvement, there's, I don't know, all sorts of improvement.

[B]

Right. But what's going to actually get you further in life? What's going to get you opportunities in the workplace? What's going to get you, you know, dates with prettier women? It's going to be looks a hundred times over. And there's really no denying that with like, you know, a lot of the recent, you know, self report studies, we've seen like, you know, research from the dating apps that's been released. So I would say is just the most important metric and it's arguably one of the easier things that you could maximize.

[A]

What's very interesting about what you said is, well, we'll get back to all these ultimate goals, but just on the dating point, you say, look, what matters in dating is looks. And that has been true for all of history to some degree. But I think it's truer today than it was 30 years ago. Because I'll give you an example. I went to a prestigious university where you got a lot of guys who graduate. Like, I'm talking about the parents of my classmates. A lot of the guys, they don't look good, but a lot of them become very rich. And we would sometimes joke that the girls who went to this school looked kind of like aliens because they had these supermodel moms and these like fat, ugly dads, but the dads were really rich. And so listen, it's a little bit of a stereotype. Plenty of people did not fit the stereotype. But when you think of generations past, there are plenty of not so great looking guys who ended up with beautiful women for reasons of, I don't know, social rights and rituals, for reasons of money, for reasons of class, status, for reasons of profession, whatever. They didn't have the dating apps. And so even that you get into looksmaxing because of the online forums, you get the drugs for looks maxing because of the Internet marketplaces. And you say the reason I need to looksmax is because all the dating takes place online where you're reduced to a picture.

[B]

Right, of course. And that's something that often gets brought up to me. And here's my response to the whole thing about money would be what's more likely for the average guy? Because I think of things in sociological terms, I think that's very interesting to me to just look at men across the society. What's more likely? Someone to ascend from maybe, you know, slightly below average to above average through looks maxing or for them to achieve that desired amount of wealth for a supermodel to date them? Just seems like, you know, we should be telling people to go the looks route.

[A]

Why?

[B]

Because it's easier. It's more realistic.

[A]

Is it, is it cheap to looks max or does it cost money?

[B]

It's just more achievable. You know, people with.

[A]

I'm just saying, how much do these drugs cost?

[B]

Not much. It's not really that difficult. It's more of a time investment. But someone is likely gonna lack the intellect to be able to achieve this status max, to achieve income max. So just across the society, I would say we should be advocating for looks.

[A]

I'm not sure I agree with you that it's easier to look better than it is to make some money or do well in your job or what have you. I mean, there are plenty of people at the top of their profession, whatever that profession is, blue collar, white collar people who would be considered by some metric elite, who are not that intelligent, who probably don't have a very high, high iq, but who work very hard, who are clever, who are scrappy, who are hustlers.

[B]

Well, you know, we're talking about across the society, not just like a couple anecdotes of maybe some dumb blue collar, like brute, you know, maybe owning his own company. So that just seems a little bit ridiculous to me to suggest that it would be easier to jump 20 percentiles in terms of income or status than in looks.

[A]

I guess the reason, if I think across the society that I'm skeptical of this, not just the brute who ends up with his own company, people who, you know, across industries and class strata, I know way more rich guys than I know really good looking guys. And I think we see more rich guys in society than we see good looking guys. So all things else being equal, if you just want to, I don't know, attract a chick, wouldn't it? And I guess the reason I'm pushing on this point is when you learn how to do well in your job, when you learn how to cultivate some skill that the marketplace rewards, aren't you improving yourself in other ways that just enhancing your bone structure does not?

[B]

Absolutely no. And you're fully right. And before we go any further down this rabbit hole, I don't want to act like these two forms of improvement are mutually exclusive whatsoever. I advocate for all the same stuff you're talking about. I think that, you know, learning a high value skill is one of the most important things that you could do. I'm just saying that it's going to be easier for you to actually ascend and overcome a lot of the disparities in the dating market through looks. I'm not saying neglect, you know, getting rich, neglect, you know, your status. That would be absolutely ridiculous for me to suggest. So I'm saying a well rounded mogger is kind of required with how difficult the scene is these days.

[A]

I grant I sometimes think that I got the last chopper at a nom, you know, because I'm a millennial and I was single for a bit and I always liked dating when I was single. But I, you know, married the love of my life and we have this right life. And I think, man, if I had to Date in the year of our Lord 2025. I would be very upset. I would have to learn how to mog. I would learn. Have to learn how to mew. I would have to learn all these skills that I don't possess.

[B]

Yeah, absolutely. And I would say that the main reason that is is because of Instagram. Right. And a lot of people don't understand the implications of, you know, access to the Internet and access to communicating with everyone across the entire world, essentially. So what that looks like in terms of a hypergamy standpoint was, you know, maybe you had a girl from your town who's gonna try to date above her looks level, maybe just in her immediate surroundings. But now we've got people like, you know, professional athletes, DMing them on Instagram, flying them out. So you're not just competing with the top chads of your 15 mile radius, you're competing with the entire world. So it's just.

[A]

It's the chads of the world, maybe who even live in Chad. Yeah, a nation of Chad.

[B]

You got no idea. Well, I doubt it, but. So it's becoming increasingly difficult to compete as, like the average guy. So there's this purgatory zone where even someone who's average to above average could be struggling to secure a long term relationship a lot of the times. And that's, like, really alarming.

[A]

This is very interesting because the observation you're making pertains to the economic discussion too. A lot of the debates over free trade and economic policy in the last 10 years have revolved around the perils of globalization. Previously you only had to compete against your countrymen. Now you gotta compete against your countrymen. The flood of foreigners that comes in across an open border and a globalized world with jobs being outsourced all over the globe.

[B]

Yeah, exactly. Very similar. But yeah, no, even if it was just domestically, things are really bad. Like when you've got girls being flown out by, like, Shaquille O' Neal, and you're just an average guy making maybe $80,000 a year, like, what are you supposed to do?

[A]

Does that happen? Does Shaquille o' Neal fly out girls from Palookaville?

[B]

Oh, I'm sure, yeah, absolutely.

[A]

Does he really? Or is that the thing? Like, I. It's a fun story. I. And I guess it could have. But does that really happen?

[B]

Absolutely. Yeah. No, I've seen professional athletes, like, following, like, girls I knew from, like, my hometown. Like, this is like a very common thing because with how degenerate the society has moved, these girls are taking on so many different sexual partners that, you know, there's a lot of, you know, plausibility for this kind of stuff.

[A]

So the promiscuity is a major problem. I mean on a whole host of social levels. But what you're telling me is looks maxing is chiefly about getting a girlfriend.

[B]

No, no, your looks are going to improve your quality of life in a lot of different regards, Whether it be in the workplace, just overall opportunities presented to you. This is all going to be tailored to looks. And the main thing that you need to understand is the halo effect. I don't know if you've heard about this.

[A]

What is the halo effect?

[B]

The halo effect is that people are going to perceive the things that you say and the things that you do a lot better. If you're good looking.

[A]

There's like that meme where some really good looking guy goes up, he's like, hey Shelly, nice dress today. And she's like, oh, thanks gigachat. And then some like fat guy walks up, he's like, nice dress Shelly. And she's like, hello H.R.

[B]

Exactly. Yeah. So no, that's a pinnacle example of the halo effect and what that looks like. So if you've got to be this fat slob who's getting HR complaints for that you saw, you know, another guy do two seconds ago, that's gotta be quite brutal. You know, so just your overall well being. If you're an unattractive person and no one even wants to look at you in the elevator, no one even wants to shake your hand or acknowledge you, it's horrible for your mental, for your mental well being. And that's why I think looks maxing goes a lot further than just getting a girlfriend. Like that seems like a very silly thing to do.

[A]

At least. Though you would have to say the thesis of looksmaxing is that look looks are the most important thing in life.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

What about the non physical things? You know, I'm a little older than you and when I was a kid we were told looks aren't everything. Don't judge a book by its cover. It's what's on the inside that counts. Christianity and religion generally teaches us that there is more to life than the material aspects of this world and we need to focus on the spirit and.

[B]

Yeah, no, absolutely. But the thing is your subconscious tells you if someone is genetically dysfortunate that they are lesser than you. And you have to kind of fight that if you're thinking in terms of like Christianity, to acknowledge them as an equal. So if you've got to go against, like, your biological instincts to have a belief system. It already kind of just makes it a little bit difficult.

[A]

Yeah, but don't we do that in a whole host of ways? I believe in original sin and concupiscence. I think it's a fallen world. And so sometimes people drive me crazy, and I kind of want to murder them. My biology or some fallen aspect of my nature urges me to murder them or to go sleep with 100 other women who aren't my wife or to eat 10 more cupcakes off the table. And I have to fight against that, just as I fight against all sin.

[B]

But what's easier to convince every single person in the state or in the United States to treat everyone equally based on looks and really fight their biological instincts or to individually improve yourself so that you don't have to.

[A]

Well, I guess maybe the question then becomes over the improvement because you've already granted that some of these drugs that you're taking, they might have negative side effects. Now, is Luxmaxing all just drugs or. No?

[B]

No, no.

[A]

What else is there to it?

[B]

So there's a lot of stuff about, like, coloring, like, you know, being tanner. It could even be as simple as is tan. Good tanning?

[A]

Yes.

[B]

Well, the UV damage and UV exposure can certainly.

[A]

No, I'm saying from the looksmax perspective, do people like the tanner people or the whiter people?

[B]

The tanner people, actually. And they've done a lot of different surveying about this. Usually tanned European phenotypes are the most ideal. So.

[A]

Because you would think, oh, maybe this is just racist, but you would. I thought the idea was people value whiteness more, and that's one of the great sins of our culture, is that whiteness is considered more beautiful than brownness or blackness. But you're saying. No, it's the. It's the. Basically, you need to Sicilian max, and then you're in a good spot.

[B]

Yeah, not necessarily. I mean, it's also just a health indicator to. To be a little bit more tanned rather than completely pale. So. So that's why people often prefer it. So that's another part. It could even be as simple as getting leaner lean. Maxing is a big part of Lux maxing, and that's arguably the most important thing that you could do, because you can do all this. You can get surgeries, but at the end of the day, if you're, you know, 20, 25% body fat, you're not even able to see any of your facial angularity or definition, you've Got no idea what's underneath all of the sludge.

[A]

Okay, so you get rid of the sludge, you go on a good diet, you work out, you and maybe. Okay, that's basic, everyone. Yeah. Okay, you want to look better, you work out and eat better.

[B]

Everyone knows that.

[A]

Everyone knows that. Then you raise the stakes a little bit and you say and inject yourself with things like testosterone and other hormones. Okay, that raises it a little bit. Is that it? Is that where it maxes out?

[B]

No. So I'm getting a double jaw surgery a couple weeks from now. So that's probably the furthest it goes, is plastic surgery. What?

[A]

This is really ignorant and I'm learning a lot sitting here. Okay, what do you mean, a double jaw surgery? You're not getting a second jaw?

[B]

No, they just perform two osteotomies.

[A]

Meaning, like one side and the other side.

[B]

No, no, no. So your upper jaw, which is your maxillary.

[A]

Oh, okay.

[B]

Yeah, yeah. And your lower jaw, your mandible, they're just doing an osteotomy and on both of the jaws and then advancing them forward.

[A]

Why are you doing that? You're a good looking guy.

[B]

Well, you know, because I want to look better. Right.

[A]

Why? Okay, before I ask my next question, why do you want to look better?

[B]

Meaning?

[A]

Look, I would get it if you looked like some mutant and you had some deformities and it was really messing up your life. But you're tall, muscular, you've got defined bone features. What? Why do you need to go further?

[B]

Well, I mean, you're already rich. Why are we here right now doing this interview? I'm turning that around on you.

[A]

I like having money. Money's a nice thing to have, but I don't really like spending money that much. And so I'm happy to make the money and get more money, but I think there's more.

[B]

You get what I'm saying, right?

[A]

No, but I think it's an important distinction. I work for a lot more than money. If I only wanted to make money, I would have gone into banking or consulting or something. So I work for a lot more than that. What are you working for when you get the double jaw surgery?

[B]

To look better. And, you know, just because you're already doing okay or you're well off, is that a reason to quit? Is that a reason to sort of put the brakes on? That seems a little ridiculous. I wouldn't.

[A]

Let me ask it another way.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

You say, why do I need to keep working? And I say, well, in part, it's to make More money, and then I can put my kids through school and maybe I can take them on a vacation or whatever. But it's also to spread the ideas that I care about. It's also to raise my political influence in ways that I think would help shape the country in a good way. It's also to spread my view of religion, spread the gospel, hopefully convert some people. There are myriad reasons that I would continue to work, but it would be doing the interview and doing the shows for those reasons. And so what I'm asking you is, what? You already look good. Why do you want? What is looking better for?

[B]

So I am someone who just wants to mog, essentially, and I've done this speech a few times. I don't really care about getting girls. That's kind of lost its novelty at this point. I just want to mog people. I want to have a better halo effect and just better overall quality of life through my looks.

[A]

Look, sometimes a guy just wants to mog. I totally. I get it.

[B]

You know what I mean?

[A]

But this then brings us back to the spiritual point that I alluded to. I could get the looks maxing if it were about getting a girl. You couldn't get a girl. Now you want to get a girl Now. Getting a girl isn't just so you can get laid. In my humble opinion, getting a girl is so that you can get married and you can have a family and you can have kids and you can be part of your community. It's for stuff. I would get looks maxing if you say, well, so that I can get a better job, because employers are going to treat me better and they're going to promote me. Okay, I see. That's for something. But if you're saying. If you're saying with a straight face, even with a new double jaw, straight face, you say, look, man, I just want a mog, Then I would have to ask at that point, isn't looks maxing just vanity?

[B]

I would say in a lot of regards, you know, it could be perceived that way, but that's my interpretation of it, and that's just my overall thing. And the word mog could mean so much, right? That could mean all the things that you just mentioned.

[A]

What do we mean by mog?

[B]

I guess just live.

[A]

What is a mogger? Walsh's new movie?

[B]

A mogger is someone who's just like, I would say, you know, the peak human. And that's kind of what I'm going for. And that's in all metrics, right? I don't want to only mog in looks. I also want to mog in wealth. I also want to mog in status. Just becoming as well rounded like a full package mogger as I can.

[A]

I get that. And there's a lot that's admirable about that. But there is a part that you have left out in your total mogging package, which is something we were just talking about. And I wonder if.

[B]

Spiritual aspect.

[A]

Yes. Does that cut against all of the other mogging? Is there any conflict there?

[B]

I don't think so. I really don't think so at all. You know, there might be certain parts of religion, whether it be Christianity or I'm not sure if other people might be followers of Islam that might.

[A]

Christianity is the true one. Don't worry. Don't worry about the other ones.

[B]

Well, just to acknowledge, like whatever viewers are watching, but I would tend to agree with you. You know, I'm not sure if there's different scripture about not modifying yourself to that extent.

[A]

Well, in the old law you can't have tattoos.

[B]

But I'm not much of a theologian, so I couldn't speak to that too well.

[A]

There is a warning against in the Christian religion, against pride, excessive love of one's own excellence, against vanity, against making idols out of the material things of this world. These are some of the. If you wanted to be the greatest spiritual mogger, I do wonder if that would conflict with mogging in all of these other areas physically in terms of wealth elsewhere.

[B]

I could see how it could, but I don't really think that it necessarily would in my case.

[A]

Here would be one verse that I'm gonna rewrite a little bit. It is easier for the camel to pass through the eye of a needle than for a wealth maxed mogger to enter into the kingdom of heaven.

[B]

Okay, interesting.

[A]

That's the MKV version of the Bible.

[B]

Yeah. So I don't really have too much regard for the spiritual aspect when I'm trying to look smacks. I'm kind of all in on. On what I'm doing right now. And I'm not, you know, necessarily advocating against Christianity. I think that there's a lot that can be gained from religion and a lot of young men. It's helped so many people. But this is just my pursuit in the immediate moment.

[A]

Okay, so then bringing it back to more quotidian things, you say. You said something earlier. You said, look, I'm not doing it just to get girls. The shine has rubbed off of that. Do you have a girlfriend? No, no girlfriend. Do you want a Girlfriend.

[B]

I'm a little bit young. I'm kind of focused on career right now.

[A]

I've heard a lot of my. But I had my first girlfriend when I was 12 and maybe that's a little bit too young. And then I dated in high school, ended up marrying my high school sweetheart, albeit later. And so, I don't know, I never found. I've heard this from my friends where they say, I'm not focused on girls now. I'm gonna have a career, I'm gonna be established, I'm gonna make some money, and then I'll worry about dating and getting married when I'm 30 or 35.

[B]

Yeah, no, that's another cope because people by the time they're 35, a lot of their youth indicators have gone to and they haven't really gained enough progress to justify that looks decline with maybe the increase in income and that kind of thing. So I would say that's probably not a good idea. But certainly at 19 years old for me to put my career sort of at a halt or at least slow down the traction that I've been gaining seems a little bit ridiculous.

[A]

Does it need to just having a girlfriend or. It does, yeah. Why do you say that?

[B]

Just in my personal case, I mean, I do a lot of content that's, you know, talking to other girls or you know, pursuing maybe like one night stands sort of stuff.

[A]

Wait, hold on. You do content that involves like trying. You're not a pornographer.

[B]

No, no, no. Just like trying to go to like parties and slay.

[A]

Okay, so it's like, is it like pickup artist stuff?

[B]

No, no, no, no. Just like testing out. Like, it's basically just like a litmus test, like do I mog yet? Or like, you know what I mean?

[A]

So like for instance, you would get the jaw surgeries and you say, okay, thesis hypothesis, I am going to slay more and mog harder. Once I have the jaw surgery. I will test this through the methodology of the party.

[B]

Yeah, that's kind of the idea behind it. And also with streaming, I stream every single day for hours. I'm on my computer all day. I really wouldn't have the time to be really an interesting partner for any woman, that's for sure.

[A]

Would that maybe balance you out a little bit if you took an hour a day to go get a drink.

[B]

With a. I mean, I'm gonna be honest with you, if I had an extra hour a day, I would be using it at the gym before I'd use it to go get a drink. You Know, that seems a little bit.

[A]

Not just to go get a drink, but to get a drink with a girl, with a girlfriend, with a potential wife. In other words, is your life a little bit out of balance? Are you thinking a little too much about maxing out yourself? Would it actually help you perhaps to take that hour?

[B]

But it's never an hour. Cause let's actually break it down. So first of all, you've gotta identify a girl, right? Then you've gotta shoot her. A first inquiry, whether it be an Instagram message or a cold approach or. So we're already like down two hours, right?

[A]

That just, just how long does it take you to. You know, it takes me a long.

[B]

Time to find a hot girl these days. Well, if you've got standards, it's literally two hours. So you go around, you find this girl, then you have to go and do an activity, God forbid, that's like, you know, maybe four or five hours doing some Jester Maxed, like bowling or whatever normie copes like zoomers do. So that's.

[A]

All right, I gotta ask before we move on, what is Jester Maxed like?

[B]

They're clowns.

[A]

When you go bowling with a girl. I mean, I don't think I've ever gone on a bowling date. But why is doing an activity with a girl you want to date necessarily Jester Maxed?

[B]

Because you're just like this, I think of it like you're this big jester, like doing these silly activities. Like you're basically just an activity self. Like, what are you doing? Like bowling, it seems.

[A]

What if you become just a dinner cell, which is a less clownish activity?

[B]

Yeah, I'd say that's a little bit more reasonable. But we still have the same issue of the inconvenience. Right. And the time. Right. That's three hours.

[A]

No, you would be taking. You're right, you would be saying the time that I otherwise would be spending working out, injecting jaw maxing time, that would be entirely focused on myself. I will be taking the three hours or four hours, however many hours to focus on another person and another person with whom I could maybe build a life potentially.

[B]

Yeah. But I would say that what's available to you and your options will increase drastically if you instead dedicate those three, four hours into maximizing other metrics of your life. So now when it's finally time to enter the dating market and you know, settle down with that long term partner, you're more established as a man and you've got a lot more going for You.

[A]

Okay, here's my rejoinder to that. This too, when you're talking about how you approach a girl, even that has this through line of everything's online. Your work is online. You discovered looksmaxing online, you found the drugs online, you started swiping right online. And even now you're saying, well, if I want to approach a girl, you know, I got to find her and I have to send her a dm.

[B]

And I think, well, that's just one avenue. I also acknowledge, like the in person approach method.

[A]

Yes, but that's the first one that came to mind. And I think that's probably true for most people today. And I think, all right, yeah, that's true. It's probably tough. If I were single today, I'd be on the apps all the time. However, I think I would. Maybe I wouldn't, I don't know. It's hard to tell.

[B]

I understand. MOG's hard. Especially like if you have a lot of followers, you're much better off there.

[A]

That's true. Although then I'd kind of worry, are they just after me for my like maxing gram, mogging, you know, or do they really love me?

[B]

Well, if you're just trying to go for like, you know, one night stands and slay, it doesn't really matter.

[A]

I would no longer be trying to slay. I would be trying to capture and marry. Oh, I would not be. I would find it to be sinful to fornication, Max. I would be avoiding that. So then it makes me think, all right, well, I don't have to do that now. Cause I'm married and I did something very strange, which is I married my high school sweetheart. We split up for a little bit in the middle, but I married my high school sweetheart, which people used to do all the time, very few people do now. And a lot of people will say, don't marry your high school sweetheart because especially if you're an ambitious self improving looks maxer, the pool that you can pick from is gonna be so much better five or ten years from now when you're in the professional world and you got some wealth and status. I have anecdotally observed. But the plural of anecdote is data that the best marriages I've ever seen have been people who knew each other when they were very young and kids even. Which is not online, which is not about status really, because no one, everyone's kind of equal in school, which is not primarily physical. Obviously you have to have a physical attraction, but you're not Grading people on scales. It seems to be totally the opposite of everything you're describing in the modern dating market. But might that old way be better? Better?

[B]

I don't really disagree with you there about the whole high school sweetheart thing because that's like a theory that we talk about called just be first in the Lux Max community. And the idea behind that is all the pair bonding abilities remain intact. If you're, you know, marrying, you know, young and both partners are virgins, especially the woman, you know, that that tends to lead to more everlasting relationships, lower divorce rates. I think the data absolutely agrees with you there. I'm just simply saying that in my case it would be a comical idea to put my career at a standstill for a girlfriend because that is almost required. It's very rare that you're able to progress to the degree that you otherwise would be with a long term partner.

[A]

Well, certainly in what you do. If part of what you do involves you going out and picking up chicks, then you could not have a girlfriend while you were doing this.

[B]

Well, I also, you know, work pretty much all hours that I'm awake.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

So I'm an incredibly boring person.

[A]

That's true though, you know, that is something I have to fight. I work all the time. I don't have a real job, but I work all the time.

[B]

So I would almost feel bad like you know, being, you know, being in a serious relationship and just being like the most boring, awful person ever.

[A]

But you.

[B]

But.

[A]

Well, would you be boring? No. You might work a lot. You might have to fight to make time, you know, for your girlfriend.

[B]

I wouldn't.

[A]

But would you be boring? And maybe you wouldn't want to do that. Why would you be boring?

[B]

Well, I mean, it's. It's not really interesting when all you're doing is sitting on your computer like doing a show all the time.

[A]

You're interesting enough that people watch it.

[B]

Oh, absolutely. But, you know, unless the girlfriend wants to tune into the streams and become a viewer, if she's just on the sidelines, it's not really that interesting. I don't know. Do you agree with that?

[A]

I would disagree with that because I work all the time and look, it's a little different. I'm married, I have kids. I have many reasons to carve out as much time as I can to not be on the road and to not be working. But I endeavor to cultivate other interests and other desires and other loves beyond politics or whatever it is that I do. Selling cigars. And this I Wonder, I wonder if that is missing from the looksmaxing idea. Meaning while you're looks maxing and doing the attendant wealth maxing and all the other stuff we've talked about, maybe a neglect of the spiritual maxing, but what about even like bookmaxing? What about even cultivating loves for art or culture or things that yet again are not exactly physical, which make you interesting and will make girls find you interesting?

[B]

No, I absolutely agree with you. It's just like, what are you going to dedicate your time to? And once again, I believe that once you start, you know, you have to be like pedal to the metal with your career, especially these days with, with how competitive like the job market is and everything. So it's just about, you know, the return on time investment for anything that you do. If you believe that you could get more value reading a book for two hours, then, you know, maybe learning a skill, if that's going to help you just in terms of your mental well being, then then fine. You know, everyone's got a different answer to what works for them. So I'm not necessarily disagreeing with you, I'm just saying what works for me anecdotally.

[A]

Are you in college?

[B]

No, I actually got expelled from college for luxing.

[A]

All right, well then forget my question. Why'd you get expelled from college for lux maxing?

[B]

Essentially. I got caught with steroids in my dorm room and I got kicked out. I only lasted three weeks.

[A]

Wow, that's fast. I know other people who got booted from college. Three weeks is fast.

[B]

Yeah, I'd say I probably set the record with that.

[A]

The reason I ask about college is people think today college is about just going and learning a skill and getting a job and, you know, making a lot of money. That's really not what it's for. What it's supposed to be for is actually not learning any skills. It's for reading old books and thinking about abstract mathematics and science and cultivating an inner life and, you know, familiarizing yourself with the greatest that our civilization has to offer and thinking even about eternal things. And then you can go either grad school or an apprenticeship, learn on the job, do something else. But it's about the idea that there is more to life than looks and that this will make you a more interesting person, it will make you a more interested person, and that this is at least as important as how you look and maybe much more important. Go to balanceofnature.com tis the season where everyone's getting run down, everybody's tired everyone's getting sick. No one's eating right. Everybody's stuffing their face is full of sweets. And one way if you want to ensure that you're getting all those nice, tasty nutrients that you're supposed to get, would be the magnificent balance of nature Whole health system supplements. They are incredibly versatile. They're easy to work into your daily routine. The fiber and spice supplement blends smoothly into your favorite drinks, adding a warm, aromatic depth from its spice blend. If you prefer, you can even open up the fruits and veggies capsules, mix the powder directly into a smoothie, or sprinkle it over your meals. What makes these supplements special is they're packed 47 ingredients from 100% real whole fruits, vegetables, spices and fibers. Everything from psyllium husk and flaxseed to cinnamon, turmeric, mango, pineapple, wild blueberries, shiitake mushrooms, spinach, kale, cayenne pepper and so much more. And did I mention psyllium husk? It is a simple way to give your body the nutrition it needs every day. I love it, especially when I'm on the rubbing. Traveling like a maniac, eating like trash. Good way to supplement that balance of nature. New and existing customers get 50% off the whole health system for life with this limited time offer. Go to balanceofnature.com to claim this offer today.

[B]

I think that the actual interpretation of what college is supposed to be like you just mentioned is amazing. You know, people with higher intellect going to, to do these studies is a wonderful thing and that's how you have a great society. But in the modern context, we're just sending everyone off to college universally. Yeah. And it doesn't really make sense to educate people with lesser intellect because they don't have the capability to necessarily put these skills into practice. They're probably going to be working blue collar jobs in a lot of cases. It's just kind of like a thing that people do now without.

[A]

And they get $200,000 worth of debt as their reward.

[B]

Yeah. So I think that college shouldn't be as universal as just like a thing that you do.

[A]

I totally agree with that.

[B]

Be like a very sought after thing for the upper echelon, you know, people.

[A]

But part of. Yes, I agree with that. Part of what college endeavors to do can be replicated elsewhere though, which is to make people.

[B]

Absolutely.

[A]

To make people well rounded, to make people have multiple facets to their life. And you mentioned earlier, you said, you know, I'm a little bit autistic. A little touch of the tism and I think that's true for a lot of people these days, whether we're talking about real autism or just kind of habits of mind that singularly focus people, especially men, especially right wing men, especially online men. Wouldn't it be good to be a little well rounded? Do you ever. Do you have that desire or no, you say, no, I've picked my lane. I am the looksmaxer broadcaster, live streamer, and I'm just gonna do that to the nth degree, everything else be damned.

[B]

I would say that I am pretty well rounded. It's just I have a very different idea on what's actually important to fit that definition. So like a thing that I often speak out against is young people getting into politics.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

So that would probably be something. I don't know if you agree.

[A]

I totally agree with that.

[B]

You know, so, so that's an example. Oh, well, you're not, you know, maybe people would contest that with, oh, you're not well rounded. You don't have like a good grasp on like geopolitics. And I'm like, well, yeah, that's intentional because I find it to be extremely silly to advocate for young people who don't have a lot going for them. They maybe have like a very low credit score, low income and they're worried about, you know, foreign wars or something like that.

[A]

Yeah, I agree.

[B]

That's something that I've always been extremely outspoken on.

[A]

I agree. Look, civic engagement is good, but these, you know, for a 14 year old to be, you know, waking up in terror at night because of climate change or some nonsense, some war overseas, I think is totally disordered. So I entirely agree with that. But because you got into this so young, because you're still so young, wouldn't you maybe. Couldn't you apply the same kind of reasoning to a young clavicular and say, hey, maybe don't get so obsessed with this one thing so young, maybe round it out a little bit.

[B]

Well, the problem is, like we discussed, it's a now or never thing with a lot of these growth pathways. So you can either optimize them and ascend past what was possible genetically without the intervention of pharmaceuticals, or you can just cope and never have the success that you otherwise could have.

[A]

How long is the recovery for the jaw surgery?

[B]

It's going to be about three weeks of extreme swelling and I would say for 100% of the swelling to go down, it'd be about six months. But after three weeks you're pretty much looking how you will just a gradual Decline in that final push of swelling.

[A]

Have any of the doctors said, hey, man, you don't really need this surgery, and this is kind of gratuitous and maybe you're a little wrong in your thinking here, and maybe there's even a touch of body dysmorphia. Have any of them suggested that?

[B]

No, not really.

[A]

So you just go in, you say, hey, I'm a big beefcake Chad looking guy and I want to give you a bunch of money. How much money does it cost?

[B]

35,000.

[A]

35,000. Okay. So you go in, you say, hey, I'm a 19 year old guy. I want to give you 35 grand to make me look even more giga y, Chad, even more chatty. And they just say, okay, thanks. Yeah, swipe the amex here.

[B]

Well, because nobody, in a lot of cases, the double jaw surgeries that I'm talking about with like the cosmetic implants, that's an elective thing, right? Sure. Certainly double jaw exists as a way to fix, you know, horrible airways and sleep apnea.

[A]

But in my case, you're meant from a car accident or something.

[B]

Yeah, right, but, but a lot of the times it would be just like sleep apnea and breathing related issues would be the main cause for, for jaw surgery. But that's like severe recession and severe developmental issues. But most people in, you know, the modern era actually do need jaw surgery because they have, you know, dental crowding. They don't have enough space in their mouth to even accommodate for their teeth because of, of whether it be just poor development, poor breathing habits as a kid. So I would say that the majority of people would actually need jaw surgery to, to fit within the ideals of, look.

[A]

Where does a 19 year old get $35,000?

[B]

So after I got kicked out of college, it was kind of a rough time for me. And what kept me going was how much I was working. I was working 70, 80 hours a week at a restaurant trying to afford the jaw surgery because I felt like that was my way out in life. That was how I was gonna ascend and, you know, improve upon everything.

[A]

Ascend in looks, ascend in every regard in society.

[B]

Yeah, just ascend as a person.

[A]

So you want. When was this?

[B]

This was in 2020, so last year.

[A]

This is pretty recent.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

So you get booted out of college, you're working. What was the job?

[B]

I was working at a restaurant.

[A]

Working at a restaurant. And you say, okay, the reason I'm working all the time is so that I can afford to improve my jaw with plastic surgery.

[B]

Yeah, because I figured the return on investment would be comically high. Right. So you improve that much in looks, the opportunities that are going to be available to you will absolutely exceed the $35,000 investment.

[A]

Where do you get your certainty that that's the case?

[B]

Just what I've seen in society, a lot of anecdotes. Like we look at a lot of the come ups for famous people. They'll get like scouted for being like famous actors or models.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

Like doing heinous, you know, like for example, like Jordan Barrett got scouted to be a. Who's like one of the top like looks Max. People were scouted like while he's like stealing. There's this other guy named Jeremy Meeks I don't know if you've heard of. So he committed a felony and he had a mug shot where a lot of girls on Facebook liked him, but he was good looking so they bailed him out and then he got a $1 million modeling contract. So like that's what's available to you. Once you hit that top percentile of looks, you could pretty much do anything and you know, your life will be easy now would you?

[A]

I don't know that I, I'm not saying I doubt the stories, but I don't know if I. You would use those stories as the model for life saying, you know what I gotta do, I gotta be really hot and commit a felony and that's my pathway to success.

[B]

Well, it's just being that good looking, being like the top like 01 percentile of men in terms of looks, it's just a guarantee for success. Like you can't lose. There's really no losing.

[A]

So I'm not sure about this. I got a few more years than you, but maybe you've done more research.

[B]

Absolutely. There's no losing when you're that level of looks. I know in today's day and age.

[A]

I know good looking look. Maybe this is generations past. I know good looking people, guys and girls who have not had much terrestrial success. And I grant you it's very important in show business, in broadcast professions or acting, whatever. But I also know a lot of very, very successful people in the kind of worldly way and in the spiritual way and sometimes in both who are not even close. They are very looks moderated, they are maybe even looks minimized. And I know many examples of that. And I can think of counterexamples of like hot people. I mean isn't this is kind of the joke or the meme is like the Guy and the girl who were really hot, you know, in high school, they don't have a lot of success in their lives. And you know, the nerd is the one who goes off to school and I don't know, becomes a billionaire. I mean that, that seems to be more the stereotype.

[B]

That's just not what we're seeing in today's day and age with social media. I would say that that's probably how it was for a while, but now when you're just able to open up Instagram or TikTok and put a picture of yourself when you're that good looking and you know, get extreme success and brand deals and stuff like that and influence it. Yeah, yeah. So that's like a no brainer, right? It's guaranteed when you're good looking. You don't even have to be an interesting Persona to do well on social media with good looks.

[A]

Surely you would admit there are plenty of good looking people on social media who don't get lucrative brand deals.

[B]

I would say that just like where I was like working in a restaurant versus, you know, achieving success on social media, like I would have done better. Absolutely. So that would have been a return on investment. That made sense, right?

[A]

No, but I'm saying principles. You're saying looking good. If you look really, really good and you have Instagram, that's a guarantee of professional success and lucrative success. I'm just saying there are plenty of hot people on social media who aren't that successful.

[B]

Then you know, that's also people who are low IQ as well. But I would say that that's a very rare thing. Is that even true?

[A]

I bet most hot people on social media don't get a lot of likes and certainly don't get branded.

[B]

Well, what are we talking about by hot? Like good looking? Like some people think that like Sydney Sweeney is extremely attractive.

[A]

I would say I don't want to scandalize anybody married man. I would say Sydney Sweeney is, is very attractive.

[B]

I would say that she's pretty malformed. Her upper maxilla is extremely recessed. Right. She's got the eyes of doom with no infraorbital support. She's really not that much of a looker in her face. I think that a lot of people with porn brains find her attractive because of her body.

[A]

I don't have porn brain. I don't know what are you talking. You're telling me that, you're telling me that if a guy finds Sydney Sweeney attractive, he's got to have porn brain?

[B]

No, I think that she's above average in looks, but certainly not that light, like, you know.

[A]

No, you said she's got a sunken suborbital. I forget the words that you said.

[B]

Yeah, she's got a recessed infraorbitals and a recessed upper maxilla.

[A]

You're telling me you go to a bar?

[B]

I'm just saying she's not the pinnacle of looks that I'm talking about to actually succeed on social media. She's average to above average.

[A]

She's pretty successful. Doesn't that make. Doesn't that more bode for my side of the argument that looks is not the one to one guarantee of success, even by your low estimation of how she looks?

[B]

Well, that doesn't argue with my principle at all that if someone is actually the 9 out of 10 looks level that we're talking about the top percentile, that they'll be famous. I'm just simply stating that she's not that top echelon.

[A]

So who's really beautiful?

[B]

Well, if we're talking about just like.

[A]

Supermodels, someone that I wouldn't recognize anybody, but someone that the audience might recognize.

[B]

Like, we'll talk about like supermodels like, you know, Gisele Bundchen and Taylor Hill, like the top, like Victoria Sweeney.

[A]

Was she the one? Gisele Bundchen, Was she the one married to Tom Brady?

[B]

Correct.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

Right.

[A]

So you think she's hotter than Sydney Sweeney?

[B]

Absolutely. No, that's ridiculous to suggest otherwise.

[A]

No way. They're different ages. I guess. So maybe I'm grading on a curve.

[B]

Yeah, I mean, maybe like her recently would probably not be as great, but in her prime. Yeah, absolutely. Blows out of the water.

[A]

Why?

[B]

Well, because of her facial harmony scores. Right. There's measurements that you could take of everyone's face to figure out exactly how attractive they are. It's an objective thing. The only thing that would make look subjective was like, some people may prefer more tan skin versus pale skin like we were talking about before, but even then it's.

[A]

Well, I agree that beauty is an objective thing. So I totally disagree with the modern conception that beauty is in the eye of the beholder. I think it's a cope. And I do think I'm with St. Thomas Aquinas, that part of what is beautiful is harmony, is harmonizing radiance and things like that.

[B]

Symmetry. Yeah. So absolutely. So that's simply what I'm stating is there might be a false idea of what's actually that good looking. If Sydney Sweeney were to apply that Principle, start posting on social media without acting. Oh, where's my brand deals? It's like, well, you're not who we're talking about.

[A]

Now hold on. Why did you conclude that people who think Sydney Sweeney is attractive use pornography? What is it about porn that would lead you to that conclusion?

[B]

I think a lot of what they like about her is, you know, her breasts and probably just her body. And that's generally like a very like gooner porn consumer mentality.

[A]

But what about just her face? You know, you say she doesn't have a pretty face.

[B]

I would say that she's probably right around average, slightly above.

[A]

Wow, okay. Yeah, I wouldn't agree with that.

[B]

But I think if you put her head onto just an average chick's body, she would be pretty much invisible outside of like, you know, a third world country.

[A]

Now. Okay, I'm very curious about the pornification of it all because this ties into what you've been talking about from the beginning, which is your whole looks. Maxine journey has been online. It's been revolving around every step of the way. And what is the definitive, I don't know, content of the Internet? It's just porn from the earliest days?

[B]

Well, that's just the new look that you're seeing pushed by, I don't know, globalism or whatever is like the thick thing where you're seeing all these girls who have like, you know, a lot more body fat, but their faces might be chubbier because, you know they're going to have more, more fat now and they're, they're, you know, in their breasts. So that's kind of just like a new thing that's being pushed and you're in, in.

[A]

You're saying fat girls are being pushed in pornography?

[B]

No, not necessarily fat, just like, you know, higher body fat. Whereas, you know, you would see in like the 90s and the early 2000s, like with modeling, it was like a very skinny look. The face was very angular. And I would say that porn probably did the most damage to what's pushed.

[A]

There was a lot of porn in the 90s. I don't know, you weren't around then. But I was around then.

[B]

But it wasn't accessible by every 12 year old with an iPad.

[A]

Yeah, well, it wasn't iPads, it was computers. But I mean, Internet porn, look, there.

[B]

Were, it's much worse now.

[A]

It's a lot worse because the Internet's faster. But there were pieces of legislation to combat this. In the 90s it was the, the Communications Decency act and the Child Online Protection act because there was this flood of porn all over the Internet. It really started in the 90s and they both got shot down by judges, unfortunately. The reason the porn thing is interesting to me on this topic is it's so online. All of this is so profoundly online. And one of the evils of pornography is it reduces humanity merely to the physical.

[B]

I'm very anti porn myself. Yeah, I think it ruins your dopamine system. It's going to give you a very bad perception of, of how women are, you know, in the actual real life. Because a lot of it's just acting. Yeah, it's all fake.

[A]

All a fantasy.

[B]

Yeah. So that, that has done a lot of damage for people, especially with the recent stuff like only fans and just how widespread it is, you know, know, stuff being all over Twitter. It's really not good. And I'm simply saying that just like the look of women has been vastly altered.

[A]

Yeah, I certainly agree. Or I strongly suspect, what do I know? I haven't read all the studies, but I strongly suspect that porn so screws up people's brains that it changes their desires and what they consider attractive. I totally agree with that. My point, I guess, is, is one of the evils of pornography is it reduces people who are these integral human beings with soul and body, it reduces them to the physical. So it's just meatbags bumping uglies on a screen. It's even one level abstracted. But isn't that a commonality with looksmaxing, which is to reduce the human person down to the level of the physical, the physical being the most important?

[B]

I would say that. That, yeah, it's. It's not far from the truth, you know, but it's just what needs to be done in society. You need to. To improve upon this metric. You know, we could say, do you though you do?

[A]

I don't feel like I do. I mean, listen, I. In my mind, you've achieved success in.

[B]

Other regards to such.

[A]

Other regards. Are you suggesting I'm not looks maxed?

[B]

No, I would say that. You know, obviously anyone who does media is gonna be reasonably good looking. Right. So take it.

[A]

I'll take it.

[B]

Yeah. So no, you've. You've achieved this success to such a high level that maybe you could make up for not fully looks maxing or not taking like the double jaw surgery route. Like, you know, you're a huge, you know, host of a massive show, you know, so that status might be able to carry you rather than, you know, having to.

[A]

Okay, but let's say that I weren't. I appreciate all the compliments and it's great. And I, like, this is nice. I'll take, I'll take it. I'll take a broad. You know, I haven't looks minimized at least. But let's say that all that wasn't true. And let's say that I were a guy and I were, I don't know, even more looks minimized and I was fashion minimized and I didn't have a show and I didn't check certain status markers. And let's say I were just a guy married to a nice gal and maybe she wasn't even that good looking. Maybe let's say we had a nice family and we had some kids and we were living in a house that's fine, but not that nice. And, you know, I made some money, but not a ton. And we had like a car that was okay. And we went out to dinner every so often and maybe we got to go to the beach once a year. And by all of the metrics that we're talking about, you know, I wasn't maxed out at all. But mightn't it very likely be the case that I would be happier, more flourishing than the richer, better looking, more professionally successful guy? Or you say, no, that's a fairy tale?

[B]

Well, yeah, I'd say that's a really nice idea and like, in theory, potentially, but that's just not what we're seeing in today.

[A]

I've seen it. I'm not gonna call anybody out, but I've seen it.

[B]

Yeah, I mean, maybe you've seen it once or twice. I'm sure most people watching have, but that's just not what we're seeing on average across the country. Right?

[A]

I'm saying that, yes, I agree with that. On average across the country. I bet that's true. However, the whole country isn't made equal. And so, for instance, if I go to an average bar in Brooklyn, I'm gonna get a different sliver of society than if I go to a traditional Latin mass in Wisconsin.

[B]

Right.

[A]

And I guess my point is it's kind of even silly to create an average of those things because they're such radically different types of communities. And everything that I see is that the people who are especially who are religiously active, but who are civically engaged, who are charitable, who are not thinking about themselves all the time or thinking about others and their countrymen, those people tend to be happier. I think they're flourishing on way more levels of success. At a higher level than the people who live in this very modern, secular, largely online kind of world. And so I would just say, if you really wanted to max out your potential, isn't there an argument to say actually put down the testosterone, put down the camera, put down the Internet, go move to some weirdo parish in the middle of nowhere and find some nice. I've seen like not good looking guys marry like definitely hotter girls and have like a nice family and have a kind of life that isn't even considered on the table in our modern culture.

[B]

I, you know, I'm sure that we probably agree on most of this stuff. Like what's ideal, like you know, being super in touch with your faith. But at the end of the day, all the stuff that you're talking about is just idealism. It's not realistic.

[A]

I'm telling you, I've seen people do it.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And I regularly see people do it because I travel a lot.

[B]

I don't, I wouldn't suggest that. That's.

[A]

I don't see people do it in Brooklyn. I don't see. I grant you, in a lot of the country you don't see it, but there are places where it happens and there are communities where it happens. So don't we have to consider that?

[B]

But from a sociological lens, just, we're looking at an entire society and the direction we're moving. So, you know, if that's still the case now, which, you know, you've probably seen more than me, you've got a few more years on me, but that's certainly the direction society's headed is towards what I'm talking about. I think you would agree with me there.

[A]

I would, and I don't think that's a good thing.

[B]

Thing.

[A]

But in that case, I would say, why would you swim with the stream? Wouldn't you maybe swim against the stream or go jump into a different stream?

[B]

No, because that's not a realistic outcome. Right.

[A]

Is it not?

[B]

To what, Take away all the liberties that we've granted women to sort of cause a lot of detriment to society?

[A]

To use this example to oppose feminism. I'm not saying we're gonna take away the right to vote, but I'm saying why? Well, you know, listen, we gotta repeal a few more amendments before we get to the 19th. But look, interesting conversation for another time. Let's say, forgetting about that, let's just say other liberties that women or supposedly have the liberty to promiscuity because of hormonal birth control. I would discourage that. I Think it's good to discourage that. You probably can't pass a law because of a couple of Supreme Court cases, but I would strongly discourage that. The liberty to go just, like, randomly date a bunch of dudes in some city. I would strongly discourage that. The liberty to put off getting married and having kids so that you can go do spreadsheets at the widget factory. I would strongly discourage that. So to answer your question, I guess the answer is yes, I would discourage a lot of what passes for modern liberty.

[B]

Oh, no, absolutely. Like, I don't think that the modern world is one that I like to live in at all. But I'm simply stating that you might as well adapt to the times instead of just like, you know, doing all these copes, like political activism, when this is just the way that the world is gonna go and the way that it's gonna continue to go. People have been trying to, you know, turn the tides since the sexual revolution started to happen in the 70s, and look where that's got us. Right. So if.

[A]

Hold on, hold on. Everything you've been saying is all this, like, very manly, take control of your destiny, even so much so that you're.

[B]

An alternate level on an individual level.

[A]

Yeah. So why can't we do it on a political level? That sounds kind of, excuse the phrase gay to me to say, like, there's nothing we can do. Like, the elites just control us. We can't do anything.

[B]

That's a little bit silly to compare, like starting a massive political movement rather than, like, individual action. That's a horrible comparison.

[A]

Why is that? Politics is just a bunch of individuals working together.

[B]

Because there's a lot of bad actors that don't want to see that occur. So it's not like you're just fighting against, like, nothing. You're fighting against people who deliberately want society to go.

[A]

There are a lot of people who don't want individuals to flourish. I either.

[B]

Right. So, I mean, how do you divorce the two?

[A]

My view. I don't have a liberal view of human beings. I don't think that we're just like individuals in isolation. I think we're the political creature. We're social animals. We live together, we work together. We are inclined naturally to live in an ordered society. And so I think doing politics is the most basic. One of the most basic human impulses. And so therefore, it's crazy to me to hear, well, you should go improve yourself, but don't try to improve your community.

[B]

Yeah. Because it's a cope. It's not going to Happen, right?

[A]

Where have has it not?

[B]

I mean, look, look at the conservative movement over the years. It's gone to absolute, you know, so conservatives.

[A]

There have been wins and there have been losses. I'll give you an example. In the sexual revolution in 1973, we got this stupid Supreme Court decision, Roe v. Wade, that said you could kill babies. It was in the Constitution and everyone said, you're never gonna overturn that. It's impossible to overturn it. It's a cope. If you think you're gonna overturn it, you guys are wasting your time. You're wasting your breath. Took 50 years and guess what happened? We overturned it.

[B]

Okay? Now it's a state to state thing, right? So abortion is still very much on the table. So like.

[A]

Yeah, but that's moving the goalposts.

[B]

Big win. You know what I mean?

[A]

It's a huge win to say that there's a federal constitutional right to kill babies. And then everyone says, you're never gonna overturn that. Your guys are idealistic and ridiculous. And then we do it. We actually do. And everyone says, well, never mind, that wasn't that important anyway. No, now you got to fight another battle. I agree with that. But I don't know, I noticed the libs don't seem to think that political activism is useless. They seem to think it's very useful and they've achieved a lot because of it.

[B]

Well, I'm personally an accelerationist, so I'd like to see where things are going to go because I could only assume that the dating market is going to get worse and worse and that's going to probably cause people to harbor some sort of resentment and it's gonna have a lot of like intergender issues. Again, I hope this doesn't happen, but that's just kind of what I speculate will occur.

[A]

Well, hold on. Cause when you say you're an accelerationist, I find that very interesting. Accelerationism, meaning, look, we got all these social problems and things are, they're getting even worse. And so you know what, let's just immunitize the eschaton, let's bring it up to the end, let it all fall apart, and then we can finally rebuild something good. Yeah, so you say I'm an accelerationist on the one hand, but you say I don't want that to happen on the other, or that would be. That's a contradiction.

[B]

Yeah, I mean, I'm talking about the resentment. I'm not talking about.

[A]

But that's part of the acceleration is like we all go to War with each other and everything.

[B]

Well, just because I want that to happen doesn't mean I really have a lot of hope that the two genders have a lot of conflict. But I hope that we can accelerate to the point where we, we could, you know, start to rebuild the society and the dating market, because it's only going to slip further and further. I think the conservative movement to a large degree is a complete joke.

[A]

And I would say for a lot of long time. I agree with that.

[B]

I would say that now it's probably stronger than it was a few years ago, but largely a joke.

[A]

You should have seen it before Trump. Yeah, you should have seen it before Trump.

[B]

If you know the stuff that I'm talking about really doesn't have. I would say it's probably more of a right wing thing and theory, but there's, there's really no political party attached to it. And if it is the right that's supposed to be, you know, protecting us from slipping into this degeneracy that we're.

[A]

Talking about, we're in the degeneracy. There's no protecting us from slipping. We've been in the degeneracy for a.

[B]

Long time going further and if that's the right job, I don't really have a lot of hope. That's why I'm someone who's saying, yeah, individualism is good. Adapt to the society that we live in because they, that's the highest chance of success.

[A]

Adapt to the. But hold on, you're saying the society is getting more degenerate. Adapt to the society, but also don't be degenerate. You see the conflict between those things.

[B]

Who's saying don't be.

[A]

You're saying to be degenerate?

[B]

I'm just saying it's ide. You know what you're talking about, about degeneracy and like, you know, the hypergamy stuff. It's not ideal, but I'm saying that's just how it is.

[A]

Oh, interesting. Okay, I misunderstood your point. So you're saying, look, the conservative movement has had all these failures. Totally agree. And we've fallen into this degenerate society and that sucks. Totally agree.

[B]

But that's just how it is.

[A]

But then your answer is, so you know, if you can't beat them, join them, basically. Essentially, yeah, kind of doomer.

[B]

Well, is it, I mean, like really, it just seems like such a cope to be like, you know, going to all these political action events as like your average guy. Like maybe you have this perspective because you've got your own show and you've got a lot more influence over the way that the country goes than just your average guy. But if you're just like the one of the average viewers who've got no voice, who could risk potentially losing their job for saying the wrong thing in politics?

[A]

Politics.

[B]

I'm saying that they shouldn't really be concerning themselves with trying to change the tide of society.

[A]

Well, look, people have a voice in as much as they vote. They have more of a voice than ever because of social media and new media.

[B]

Until they get banned and fired from their jobs.

[A]

Yeah, there was a lot of that, and then we stopped a lot of that. Elon helped stop that when he bought Twitter. Still happens, but it happens to some degree. It's gotten a lot better. And I guess my point is, if this individualism and political quietism from the right is what led us into this mess in the first place, because it emboldened and empowered the left to screw up the whole society from dating elsewhere, then wouldn't doing more of the same only make things worse?

[B]

Well, was it really individualism that caused the huge decline in the right? I'm just thinking about from I think like a self improvement perspective and just overall, like context of how you should live your life as a man. And, you know, maybe you're right about that, but I, I just don't think it's necessarily a bad thing to just advocate for your average person to only concern themselves with their own.

[A]

To me, that's the, that's the big cope. I agree with many of the observations you're making about the society, but the big cope, this, you heard this with like the libs when they were trying to push the trans stuff and they were upset that some of us were pushing against it. And they said, how does this affect you? You know, you're walking out. It's basically your society is Sodom and Gomorrah. And they say, well, how does it affect you if I decide I want to, like, castrate little kids in the school and redefine marriage and slaughter babies and sacrifice them to Moloch? And how does that affect you? You just mind your own business. And I think, how about I don't mind my own business, actually? How about my business is my community and I have a right to enforce standards and norms that are good and traditional and conducive to flourishing? And how about you mind your own business?

[B]

But the problem is, you see, what you just did there is you spiked your cortisol. Thinking about transgenders will that max anything on me? No, that's a. That's a very catabolic hormone. So if you're advocating for people to, you know, go around and, you know, concern themselves with these issues or go to, you know, like school, like board conferences and like, you know, be outspoken about this, that's just largely actually going to be unproductive. And, you know, it might seem like a doomer mentality or like, you know, you're just going to let society go to. It's like on an individual level, it's just. It's not going to be productive.

[A]

But on a political right. Well, look, it's been productive in as much as at least the trans thing. There's so many other problems. At least the trans things, though, we've kind of won on that.

[B]

Well, the way that I see trannies is like, that's one more person to mog once they brutally butcher themselves transitioning, you know, I see that, like, go to send yourself, like, that's fine with.

[A]

Me because you're ascending yourself.

[B]

Yeah, I'm gonna ascend and this person is gonna be a comical botch job, you know. So, like, that just seems like very logical to me. Like, yeah, go be a tranny. Like, now I mogga you to death now isn't.

[A]

Yes, I see it. Isn't that a bit cruel to the like. For instance, my view of the tranny people think I want to commit a genocide on the trannies. In fact, in fact, media outlets have written that, which is totally ridiculous. My opposition to the transgender ideology is that I think it's false, it's bad for everyone involved. And at a very real level, I love trannies. That's the part that's gonna get clipped. But I love the trannies in the sense that they're my countrymen, they're fellow human beings, they're children of God. I don't want them to do things that are bad for them. I don't wanna spike the football or spike my cortisol and just MOG all over them. I want them to live lives that are good and flourishing. And I also don't want them to scandalize whole generations of kids into thinking they can be the opposite sex and screw up my society further. There's a little bit of a selfish aspect, but there's a common good view and there's even charity for the other person. Don't we have to have charity for these other people, even if they're descended trannies?

[B]

No, not necessarily. Think about all the time that you've spent throughout Your entire life. Wife talking about trannies. What if you were to dedicate all that time to bone smashing? You know, imagine where you could have been.

[A]

Is that a euphemism? No.

[B]

Bone smashing.

[A]

What is bone smashing? That sounds like what the trannies do.

[B]

No, it's where you induce micro fractures. And this principle follows Wolf's law that a bone is going to grow back stronger, you know, after you do these localized micro traumas. So you're. You're going to lay in your bed to brace your head for cte, and you're gonna bone smash.

[A]

You're gonna lay in your bed and brace your head for cte. Is. Isn't that like, brain damage?

[B]

Well, no. So that's why you lay in your bed. And that's gonna grow your facial bones.

[A]

You smash. Like you punch yourself in the face.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

If I punch myself in the face, I'm gonna get, like, a nice mewed up jaw.

[B]

Yeah. According to Wolf's law. Right.

[A]

Do you punch yourself in the face?

[B]

Yes.

[A]

How hard?

[B]

Like, reasonably.

[A]

Just your fist?

[B]

Yeah. I used to use a hammer, but my parents would go into my bathroom and take it away. So that was you would hit yourself.

[A]

In the head with a hammer?

[B]

Yeah. I know it sounds a little silly, like, people are gonna think I'm trolling, but this is all, like, on YouTube. Like, you can find this stuff.

[A]

I almost don't want to ask. Did it work?

[B]

Yeah, absolutely. Yes. Yeah. Bone smashing is legit. I mean, you even take a look at, like, UFC fighters, like, the brow ridge over their career or X rays of their shin, and, like, there's massive amounts of hypertrophy in their bones.

[A]

Is that. Are there any downsides to hitting yourself in the head with a hammer?

[B]

No. No. As long as you have proper bracing, you're going to be fine. But that's what I mean. That's just like, one example of something that you could do instead of political activism is bone smash.

[A]

You know, I'll tell you, sometimes in my political activism, I would rather hit myself in the head with a hammer without question. Yeah.

[B]

So that's what I mean. Like, just dedicating your time to ascending as an individual instead of, like, coping and cortisol spiking about, like, liberalism and trannies. It's like, that's just what's gonna happen anyway. Like, people are, for the most part.

[A]

And they're gonna sound like that Indian guru in the Midwest said, democracy is the government for the people, but the people are right.

[B]

So it's like, I see all, like, these conservative Commentators trying to, you know, stop people from, like, doing drugs and, you know, weak willed people. It's just kind of like Darwinism. It's like natural selection to me. If people want to be, like, addicted to opioids, like, I don't think we should be spending like taxpayer resources to like, build like, you know, addiction clinics and try to pass legislation.

[A]

We should just let them kill themselves.

[B]

If they want, like, essentially. Yeah. I mean, and you got to just focus on, on maximizing yourself as an individual.

[A]

But what if I. What if maximizing myself as an individual in, in my perception, involves growing in charity? And what if it involves ameliorating the political and social conditions in my country? And what if part of that means that I want to help other people instead of letting them kill themselves with opioids?

[B]

Well, then I would say that that's going to be a very futile cope.

[A]

You don't think you can help people? You don't think anything can improve. The Bolsheviks are about to overrule that.

[B]

I don't think that I can do anything. I don't think that anyone watching could do anything. I don't think it's likely that even someone with as big of a reach as you can necessarily influence.

[A]

Could Donald Trump do something.

[B]

That'S even tough to say with just like the blockade you face with like, you know, all the different branches of power.

[A]

And let me use an example. Could we have, just hypothetically, the largest demographic transformation in the history of the world world. Take place over 60 years in the United States from 1965 onward, and then have an entirely open border that floods the country with some 3 million people per year. Foreigners, highest percentage of foreign born ever in the United States. And then could a guy come into office and even with all of the obstacles in his way, preside over an immigration regime that gets rid of 2 million of those people in a single year? Could that happen? Yes, obviously that did happen. That would seem to be a 2.

[B]

Million out of how many?

[A]

2 million out of how many? Well, it's unknown, but it's anywhere from, I don't know, 15 to 30 or something.

[B]

Right, so exactly.

[A]

In one year. That's pretty good. 60 years of problems. 2 million in one year. That's pretty good.

[B]

Yeah, but I mean, like this next election cycle, who's gonna win? It's gonna be Gavin Newsom against JD Vance because JD Vance is subhuman and Gavin Newsom mugs.

[A]

JD Vance is subhuman.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

What makes you say that?

[B]

He's got a very short, total facial Width to height ratio, he's obese, very recessed side profile. Whereas newsome is like six three chad.

[A]

So JD's very tall. JD's gotta be.

[B]

Well, still, I mean, 263 Gavin Newsom obviously mogs him to death.

[A]

So you're a Newsome head. You prefer Newsom to the vice president?

[B]

I'm just telling you who's going to win.

[A]

Do you prefer him, though?

[B]

Honestly, it's. It's hard to say. But Newsom being that much more of a mogger and like, having a president who's like, fat and especially that young, you think he's.

[A]

I don't think he's fat. I would say he's a bigger guy for sure.

[B]

He's just like. It's just embarrassing. Like, how are you fat? And you expect to like, lead a country you can't even be in chance, you know?

[A]

So you, like. Let's say you got a vote. It's 2028.

[B]

I'm voting for Gavin Newsom.

[A]

You're voting for Gavin Newsom.

[B]

You can't be that subhuman.

[A]

So hold on. You got. All right, well, this actually is of a thread with the whole conversation because you look at these two candidates, you have Gavin Newsom, worst governor in the country, I think we would all agree, destroyed his state, let its main city burn to the ground. Cause of his incompetence, is a personal complete derelict, liar, degenerate. But he is good, I'll grant you that. He's good looking and he kind of looks like Patrick Bateman, American Psycho. And then you have this vice president to President Trump, the transformative right wing president in our lifetimes. Who do you support, Trump or no?

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Okay. And you got this vice president handpicked by Trump, who is extremely intelligent, very right wing. I think he's a pretty good looking guy. I don't know, maybe, I guess you disagree. But he's all these things, checks all these boxes, would have all these great policies. And regardless, you're gonna pick the pro mass migrant, pro trans, pro murder the babies, pro burn the cities to the ground, pro BLM Democrat because he's skinnier than the conservative vice president 100 times over. Yeah, all right. I can't argue with that.

[B]

I guess it just goes to show, like, who you are as a person. And that's.

[A]

I think it does.

[B]

That's.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Not to mention you look at like, J.D. vance. I'd say he's probably more concerned with like, doing trips to India and like, you know, taking pictures in front of the Taj Mahal than actual politics.

[A]

Is he. I don't know. I think he's done that like once he's done actual politics for, I don't know, a decade.

[B]

Well, the guys. And regardless of my opinion, I'm just telling you that because of the halo effect and the subconscious bias really does, politics is not about like good policy anymore. It's just about like rhetoric and presentation. That's like a very obvious thing in my opinion.

[A]

Is that true?

[B]

I would say so. I would say that if it weren't for Trump's rhetoric and charisma, he wouldn't have won in 2016.

[A]

You don't think his policies. This is where I totally disagree.

[B]

Most people who vote for Trump don't even know what he stands for.

[A]

I don't think it's true. I don't think that gives nearly enough credit to voters and I think it ignores trends in the West. Yeah. I think he won because people are sick of the mass migration. I think he won because people are sick of elite economic policies that don't benefit working Americans a sold amount. I think he won because people don't like the weird sex stuff and making everything gay and trans. I think he won. The consensus view in the liberal media is that Trump won despite his policies because he had fiery rhetoric. And I think that's total bs. I think he had popular policies. I think that's why the Brexit passed. I think that's why right wing parties are rising in Europe. I think voters are a lot smarter than your giving them credit.

[B]

I think if Trump were to run for the opposing party and Hillary were to run for the Conservative Party, I think we would have had Trump win as, as a Democratic.

[A]

That's like saying if up, we're down. I mean, how do you. What does that even mean? You're, you're saying, you're saying just based on looks.

[B]

Yeah, just based on charisma. Looks. And Gavin Newsom absolutely blows Vance out of the water with all of these things. So it doesn't really matter.

[A]

And you would vote even if you go with that premise, you're saying that's so persuasive. You would vote for him? You, who is ostensibly a right winger, you'd vote for one of the most left wing and incompetent governors in the country. Cuz you think he's sexier.

[B]

No, that's not really what I'm saying at all.

[A]

I thought that's what you said. You'd vote for Newsom 100 out of 100 times.

[B]

Well, because it just. And also, Vance isn't really like someone who's deserving of, of any right wingers vote. I mean like policy wise.

[A]

Oh, so you, you actually have like a real personal problem with Vance. It's not just that you don't like, you don't think he's as hot as Newsom.

[B]

I think when you, you phrase it like that, it like tries to make it into like somewhat of a attack mechanism and like call it look smacking like homosexual. Oh, you're just like voting for him because he's sexy. It's like. No, we're talking about, you know, subconscious biases and like the halo effect.

[A]

No, no, no. But I'm sorry, when you, you said, you said, said the Vice president doesn't deserve a right winger's vote. So now we're not talking about looks. Now you're talking about you have a.

[B]

Deeper issue advance, you know. Yeah, but you know, that's not really something that we would have time to discuss today.

[A]

We have plenty of time.

[B]

Yeah, but I'm more of like a Lux Max guy rather than a policy guy.

[A]

So you don't want to talk about it?

[B]

Not necessarily. But what I'm simply, I wonder why. But what I'm simply stating is that, but you know, this is a subconscious bias across a society of voters and I'm predicting that Gavin Newsom is going to win because he is objectively more harmonious facially. And it just kind of tries to take.

[A]

I wonder if that's a bit of cope for these deeper reasons that you don't want to talk about.

[B]

What, that I don't like J.D. vance?

[A]

Well, yeah, I mean, because you're saying it's all about looks, but it's actually about these deeper reasons. But I don't want to talk about these deeper reasons. And we could talk about good looking.

[B]

Well, we could talk about J.D. vance. I think J.D. vance. Would he be a better candidate and probably closer to me in terms of policy than Gavin Newsom? Yes, but he's just not going to be good enough to, to be deserving. I think the right has kind of let down the voters for the longest time. So I think I'm, I don't really think that right wingers should just give support to these jesters who continue to under deliver on their promises. You know, just let the Democrats win. That's kind of what I'm talking about in terms of just like why I don't support Vance as a voter. But.

[A]

So you're saying no, they shouldn't vote for Any Republican. The right wingers should not vote for the Republican.

[B]

Not until the right actually wants to do the things that they are promising.

[A]

So is there a candidate you would prefer? I assume you don't actually want to vote for Newsom. Maybe you do. Maybe you are a Democrat. No. Okay, so you. So then who's a right winger you want to vote for? Or maybe there isn't one. No.

[B]

Yeah, there really isn't one. That's.

[A]

It's kind of doomer, isn't it? So now you're saying if you're a real hardcore gigachad right winger, you should let the Democrats rape your country.

[B]

Well, yeah, you kind of have to. Like, that's the accelerationist mentality. Because, like, look, what is the right going to do other than just like a small win here? And like, like, you know, maybe you overturn Roie Wade on like a federal level, but abortion still allowed, like state to state. So it's like it really doesn't do anything. It's like if these people are just going to like, continue.

[A]

Maybe you deport 2 million people, maybe.

[B]

Okay, but there's still 28 million more. Right. So until these people actually want to make changes that matter. Right.

[A]

I think 2 million people matters.

[B]

I think in a country of how many people?

[A]

Like, what are we, 330 million or so?

[B]

Exactly. So it's like this is. We're not really making any progress here. So for. For the RNC to just demand voters to continue to show up for what really, it's just. That's the cope. Right? That's what I'm simply advocating for until, like, the policies change and like, the rhetoric is a little better, how would the policies change?

[A]

This is what I'm confused about is, had a Democrat won, just used this past year, had a Democrat won, we would get. Just judging by Biden's policies. It was Biden's vice president was running. You would add 3 million illegal aliens to the country because Trump won. Not only do you not add 3 million, you lose 2 million. So now you have a net change of 5 million potential foreigners who would be in the United States over the course of one year. And you're saying, yeah, it's not good enough. Sorry, Brett, that's up.

[B]

It really is not good enough.

[A]

So what are you doing?

[B]

What am I doing?

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

I'm realizing that society is going one direction and I'm trying to improve myself as much as possible so that I could succeed financially, so that I can improve my status and improve my quality of life.

[A]

Do you Think you will succeed if your country goes to hell in a handbasket?

[B]

Yeah. Yeah. So, like, what are we talking about here with the immigration? It's like, I'm not competing in the job market with illegal aliens from Mexico, so it really doesn't concern me.

[A]

Well, who are you competing with?

[B]

Other people on social media.

[A]

Right. You're in this particular field. Okay. But if your country is no longer safe, if your country is no longer conducive to raising a family, if your country is no longer the global reserve currency such that your wealth is not quite as secure as it's been in the past, isn't your personal success precarious?

[B]

Well, things need to get so bad that people are just like, okay, we're fine with having like the National Guard in major cities, things like that. And that's not going to occur unless people just like, stop voting for Republicans who just like, maybe slow down, like, you know, the progress of the left a little bit across a few elections, but they're not doing enough.

[A]

Well, it's very interesting. I totally disagree with everything you're saying, but what's very interesting about it is by saying, look, not only am I apathetic, I want the Democrats to win because they're gonna be bad, because they're gonna screw up the country and then we'll have a revolution. It'll be good again.

[B]

Right.

[A]

What's interesting about that to me is it reflects something quite real and I think quite understandable, which is the alienation, especially among young men, especially among young right wing men from the country that at very high levels in popular media and government has told that group of people that they suck for like 30 years. That I totally resonate with. So how widespread do you think that alienation is?

[B]

I would say that the reason that, that I have the success I do is because it's almost in every kid my age who in the same demographic is. People are tired of, you know, being banned on social media.

[A]

People are tired of being called toxic.

[B]

Right. You know, the government not advocating for them whatsoever. So I would say that it's probably more common than not.

[A]

Yeah, I kind of agree with that. But I don't know, I'm a little more hopeful about it. Like, when I talk to young zoomers all around the country, I find they're much more right wing than they were even 10 years ago, which I like. I think they're much more serious about the political situation. I think they're grappling with real issues that previously they were afraid to talk about because they didn't want to be called racist or whatever. So I find all of that to be encouraging. I guess I come to the opposite conclusion that you've come to to, which is, I don't know, what if we got like 12 more years of this kind of government that we're getting now? If you get 12 more years of deporting 2 million people a year, by my calculation, that's 24 million people. If you get 12 more years of judges, then I see much more success on the abortion issue. If you get 12 more years of declining support for same sex marriage, for instance, and maybe a restitution of the meaning of marriage, that seems pretty good. If you get 12 more years of ending affirmative action, which the Supreme Court also recently did in college admissions, and actually punishing the schools who still insist upon discriminating against, especially white guys, Asian students too. If you just keep stacking those wins, it seems to me not unreasonable that you have a much better country.

[B]

It's very unreasonable. I mean, do you honestly believe that JD Vance is gonna be the next president?

[A]

Yeah, yeah, I do.

[B]

You actually believe that?

[A]

It's contingent on the economy doing well. But yeah, I do.

[B]

I would probably bet every Lawson I own that Gavin Newsom would win, first of all.

[A]

You think Newsom will win the primary?

[B]

Yeah, absolutely. I think he's going to be the next president.

[A]

You think the Democratic Party, due to the mog. You think the Democratic Party is going to, I grant his mogging. You think they're going to nominate over a black woman? Kamala wantsit over a gay guy. Buttigieg wants it over Gretchen Whitmer, whatever she is. You think they're going to nominate a good looking white man?

[B]

Yeah, because they realize we're not there yet as a country. Like, no one wants to vote for like a woman. You know, there's still a lot of like, moderate Democrats who are just like, okay, this is silly. So they probably.

[A]

Do you think there's a lot of moderate Democrats? Yeah, I don't see a lot of.

[B]

Moderate Democrats who think that we're not there yet to like, put women forward as a. Like that's.

[A]

They've nominated women for their last two.

[B]

Yeah, they've not. But they haven't won.

[A]

Right. So I think I agree. They're right. Wrong. I wonder what makes you think they've.

[B]

They've realized that I think the DNC is going to be like, okay, we're just not here yet. I think they, they still think that, you know, a woman should be president, which is absurd. To me. But they're going to be like, okay, this is not where the voters are yet. We're going to put ahead Gavin Newsome.

[A]

Interesting look. Maybe he could.

[B]

That would just be basic strat. And.

[A]

And that would be like, Yes, I agree. That would be a reasonable basic strategy. I don't think they do that. I don't think that a competent party apparatus that wasn't totally beholden to its most lunatic fringe would have, one, even pushed out Joe Biden. Two, thought Kamala Harris had a chance. Three, thought Hillary Clinton had a chance. Four, run Jasmine Crockett for Senate. Five, think that AOC is gonna take a Senate seat in New York or run for president herself.

[B]

Almost. At least a little better looking than Kamala, quite frankly.

[A]

She looks maxed.

[B]

Not looks max, but she's got Kamala beat, that's for sure. So Kamala is not only a woman, but she's an ugly one at that. So the DNC's gotta. They've gotta know by now. I think they're not gonna make the same mistake that they did, which is why Gavin will definitely get the primary.

[A]

You ever see young Hillary? Like, pictures of younger Hillary?

[B]

She wasn't too bad.

[A]

Can I say something that's gonna get everyone mad? I think she actually looked. She. By political standards, I think she actually looked pretty good.

[B]

Young Hillary not good enough to stop Bill Clinton from cheating on her.

[A]

Well, Bill had some problems, you know, I mean, Bill's got a particular proclivity.

[B]

Well, I mean, dude, he's just like. I feel like Bill Clinton did probably the same thing that most people would do if they were president to slay in the Oval Office.

[A]

Well, look, there have been plenty of adulterous presidents who slayed plenty of them, largely Democrats, jfk, of course, fdr, all these guys. You think, wait, hold on. That's good. No, it's not good to slay.

[B]

Well, dude, that's like achieving.

[A]

If you're a married man, that's not good to slay.

[B]

Well, that's like achieving Pinnacle status and leveraging it. So I think that's, like, kind of the point of, like, status maxing.

[A]

You think that turning an intern and that particular intern into a human humidor in the Oval Office is status maximum? Yeah. Really?

[B]

Yeah. That's like.

[A]

I think that was embarrassing.

[B]

That's like, the textbook definition of, like, status maxing. It's like you become the president, and then you, like, can slay whoever you want in the Oval Office.

[A]

I find it kind of degenerate and evidence that one is not in control of one's own base passions. I find it unmanly even.

[B]

Yeah, I think being like a prisoner of lust is like. Yeah, I've seen like, a lot of philosophers.

[A]

Yeah, it's kind of like pornified and gooning and all those things you said earlier about bad.

[B]

No, it's. It's not like comparing, like, slaying, like actual women to porn. I wouldn't necessarily agree with you.

[A]

What if it's. What if it's fornication or sterile, like, contraceptive sex, which is in many ways indistinguishable from sodomy. What if it's. I don't know. I consider all that to be kind of emasculating. Effeminate behavior.

[B]

No, I wouldn't. I wouldn't say so.

[A]

You don't think so?

[B]

I think that's kind of just like how the world is these days and.

[A]

But I think the world is degenerate and effeminate, so I guess I agree with you.

[B]

It is degenerate. But it's like, okay, if we're living in the society that rewards, like, hypergamy and rewards having a lot of, of sexual partners and slaying, and you're like the top, like, echelon of men, you're the President of the United States, you mog. And you're not taking advantage of that. That just seems like a missed opportunity to be.

[A]

Do you think Bill Clinton's life improved because he did that thing with Monica in the Oval Office, or do you think his life was worse because of it?

[B]

I think it was worse because he didn't double down and just say, like, exactly what I'm saying now.

[A]

He's. I think he still would have gotten impeached even if he got up there and mogged and said, I totally did it.

[B]

Yeah, dude, awesome. I'm telling you, if he would have doubled down, I think people would find that to be fun.

[A]

They would find it to be funny. I think he still would have been impeached. In fact, I'm certain he would have been impeached.

[B]

I think you're underestimating the double down bill. You know, quite literally.

[A]

We might never know because of the counterfactual. But I guess to your point, look, yeah, the world rewards a bunch of degenerate behavior. We totally agree with that. Principalities and powers and spiritual wickedness in high places govern the world, and the evil prosper often and the good are, you know, persecuted. That's all true, but we live in a world that crucified Christ right? So is that a recommendation of doing the same ourselves? Hmm.

[B]

I don't really think that that would be a comparable thing. Like how can you make that comparison?

[A]

You're saying at a very basic level, this world rewards vice and sin, therefore we should sin and commit vice. Seems to be a non sequitur from that because we know that those things are bad and we know that this world rewards bad things.

[B]

Yeah, yeah. I think that unless society was ready to rebuild, it's very much a cope to try to go against it and go against its ways, even if it's wrong.

[A]

Go along with the world. That's the message. That's like the opposite. You know, it's funny, man, I was expecting, when you were coming, I don't know much about, obviously I don't know much about looks maxing and all this stuff, but I was expecting your thesis to be the opposite of that. Basically to say, no, go against the grain, swim upstream. The world is gonna make you descend and you gotta ascend and you gotta improve yourself. But you're saying no, just, man, whatever, just go along with it.

[B]

Yeah, go along with society and the direction it's taking, but make sure you position yourself in the most optimal way possible to take advantage of this. It's just about positioning. Society is going to go the way that society is going to go. But how are you positioning yourself as an individual? Right, because I could sit here and talk about all these big ideas and like we need to do this and, and try to start a political movement, but I just am a realistic guy. I know it's, it's cope. I've seen a million people try, attempt the same thing.

[A]

But we've also seen successful, well, political movements, social movements, religious movements. We've seen over the course of history, things sometimes get worse, things sometimes get better. You know, I think, to use a really based example, something I started to mention earlier, the Bolsheviks were about to overrun Iberia. They were about to take over Spain. And there's this guy, Francisco Franco, maligned in some quarters, but this guy Franco cobbles together a bunch of people, many of whom don't disagree, some of whom are of kind of dubious character, and he cobbles them together to get the communists out of Iberia. These were people who were raping nuns and killing priests who would have destroyed the continent, given the Soviet Union a major foothold in Western Europe. And they got stopped because people weren't huge black pill doomers and thought they could actually do something. And indeed prayed to God, by the way, for grace to overcome Daunting odds. And they didn't just throw their hands up in the air. Isn't that. If we're trying to give the most based example possible for real right wingers who feel alienated from decadent liberal society, doesn't that counter your argument?

[B]

Well, that's more of a realistic thing. If the right wing wasn't such a joke, I would be doing a show right alongside you, advocating for these different things. But I think the entire system is just such a letdown that until you're disappointed by Trump. I'm disappointed by the entire right wing led by Trump. I don't necessarily think that it's exclusively Trump or I'm not exclusively.

[A]

But he's the president. He's the head of it.

[B]

Yeah. I personally feel like the right wing has not done what it's promised or provided any sort of hope, like maybe Franco did in the example that you just used. Obviously that's gonna get clipped up and fast.

[A]

It's gonna be that clip. And I love kids. Those are the two that are.

[B]

Yeah, now I'm a fascist. And now you love trannies.

[A]

Yeah, that's. Which is worse. I don't know. I don't know which one's going to be worse on the Internet. So on your individual point, maybe just to bring it to a wrap, with all of these observations you're making, saying that from your view of looks, maxing and how man should live in society, you say, look, the. The guy who's gonna overdose on opioids. Let him. It's fine. Look, the pro, trans, pro baby murderer guy who burns the cities down. Gavin Newsom. Good. I want him to be president. Let's hurry it up. You know, I don't have time for a girlfriend. I don't want to think about other people. I want to do my stream and get wealthy and famous and look even better. Smash myself in the head with a hammer. One thing that would appear to be missing from your ideology is concern for other people. Do you think that's unfair?

[B]

Yeah, and I haven't really clarified my position is I care deeply about the struggles of the average male being unable to even find a romantic partner. Men 18 through 21 years old, two thirds of them haven't had sex in six months.

[A]

Months.

[B]

It's good.

[A]

They shouldn't. They should get married well before they have sex. I'm not saying they get married at 18, but they should wait to have sex to get married.

[B]

But that's just showing. It's not even something that is. They're trying that they're able to do right in, in this degenerate society because of how hypergamous it is. And not too long ago, before I was ascended, like earlier this year, like I was in the same position of, you know, the average everyday male working a job, maybe not as good looking. And so, so I, I absolutely am very empathetical of that struggle. And I think that that's something that needs to be advocated for more than any political movement. Right. Just.

[A]

But that would be a, Wouldn't that be a political, A political. Political just means public. Right. Just means you do things together.

[B]

Political. In the context of like the stuff that we were just talking about. I think that men's issues are, are, are largely overlooked. But I'm saying for young men to succeed they need to put themselves in the forefront. And all the other stuff about, you know, society, the direction it's taking trannies in school that needs to take a back seat for their individual struggle because they're really not doing well. Men are doing worse than they ever have.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And almost every metric and the only way to overcome that is, is just focusing on oneself to the maximum, doing whatever it takes to ascend. And there's no place for any of the stuff that you're talking about in that mentality.

[A]

Charity. There's no place for charity in that mentality. I guess my argument is you can't possibly improve yourself as a person if you don't have charity. To take St. Paul as an example, I think you could have every single virtue. You can be the most mogging, looks maxed, giggy, super chad in the world, doing weird stuff in the Oval Office. And if you lack charity, you have nothing. You're a clanging gong.

[B]

But how could you be charitable if your disposition is so terrible in life? You've got no money, you've got no time because you work.

[A]

You could have $0.02 jobs, you could give one of them away and that would be an act of choice, charity. And in fact that's an example that our Lord uses in the Gospels.

[B]

Like come on, like on a realistic note, like you're not going to be capable of charity.

[A]

We're sure anybody's capable of charity.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

Charity is love for another person for their own sake.

[B]

Okay. But that's it we're talking about. Okay. Fair enough. What I'm simply saying is that, you know, people need to be doing whatever they can to position themselves in a way that maybe they will be capable of the spirituality that you're talking about. But I think that people Working three jobs just to make ends meet because of the economy, people who are unable to find a romantic partner. Maybe we focus on the spiritual aspect after we've overcame, like, this horrible position.

[A]

I'll do it later. I'll be charitable later. But not. Well, I'm just saying. I'm saying if you want to improve yourself, I'm not saying you shouldn't look, yeah, it's good to look good and to dress well and to try to improve yourself in all manner of ways and get smarter and whatever, but if you ignore charity, concern for others, which is expressed in all these sorts of ways, I mean, even to say I care about young men's issues, but if they want to OD on opioids, guess who's ODing on opioids? It's men. You know, you say, well, forget about them, who cares? I'm gonna focus on numero uno over here. To me, it just seems if you ignore that part, you're ignoring the key. You're saying, you know, I'm gonna bake a loaf of bread and I'm gonna have all the ingredients except the flour.

[B]

What I'm saying is I care about young men, but if people decide to go that route of being drug addicts, it's gonna take up my time as well as anyone else who I'm calling upon, you know, to join my political movement. It's gonna take up their time to try to fix this issue of people who don't wanna help themselves. So people who wanna help themselves and people who genuinely want improvement. I'm all for that. I'm like, okay, what can we do? That's why I make, like, YouTube videos, like, informational content. Like, how do you. Looks, Max? So that's why I do that. But you've got to want to help yourself, right? And I've got no empathy, really, for people who don't want that, like, even to begin with.

[A]

Yeah, that resonates. I sympathize with that view for sure. It does drive me crazy. And I think we should boot a lot of people off the welfare system who are abusing it, for instance. But it seems to me that the difference here is there's this famous expression, God helps those who help themselves. However, that isn't really true. It almost gets into truth. But the Christian idea is that actually, no, you can't really do much of anything on your own. That actually, God's grace abounds and you have the free will to cooperate with. With it or not cooperate with it. So in that way, you really are free. But it's no God offers to help everyone and in the course of justice, none of us would see salvation and we need to have grace for everybody. And I guess then my argument, even down from an individual standpoint is your life. You would live a fuller, better life. You would smile more at the end of your days and you would have more faith, open church, charity. If you don't just think about yourself all the time, which I fear is what a little bit of what the looks maxing thing leads to.

[B]

Well, potentially. But that's going to be person to person, like feeling good.

[A]

I don't think it's person to person. I'm saying I think that's a fact of human nature.

[B]

Okay, so now I feel better. Maybe I have a little bit better well being. What is that going to do? That's not like an immediate on paper result necessarily where it's like increasing your looks, which is a tangible thing, or increasing your income, your status. Like these are all very like tangible.

[A]

But your income, in my view, the looks and the money and the status.

[B]

Looks down at status triad.

[A]

Yeah, yeah, all of that, they can be nice. But all of those are for flourishing, to use the old Greek term eudaimonia, you know, happiness or flourishing. That's what it's for. And I would take it one step further. We're not going to live very long on this earth. We'll be here, I don't know, 80 years maybe by current standards, and then we're going to go take a dirt nap. And I think that that's not the end of the story because we're rational creatures with a rational soul. And so I think that there's eternity too and that you can't. It doesn't actually make any sense to consider the natural lens of life divorced from the supernatural lens of life, because eternity is a lot longer than 80 years. Does that factor into your thinking at all or no?

[B]

No, no, I'm simply focusing on.

[A]

Because you're. In your defense, you're 19. I didn't think about that very much.

[B]

I don't like that thing that people do. Well, you're only 19, so you.

[A]

When I was 19, I did not think about those things. I'll phrase it that way.

[B]

Well, that's another, you know, same iteration of what you just said. Yes, but simply what I'm suggesting is that you focus on the looks, money, status, increasing those, doing whatever it takes to achieve that.

[A]

That.

[B]

And after you've achieved that, your positioning will be better. What you're able to accomplish or what you're able to strive for increases exponentially. I think you would probably agree with that.

[A]

Well, it depends what you mean by accomplish, because I know a lot of very successful people on paper who are miserable, whose lives are wrecks, who have, you know, just.

[B]

Well, forget the anecdotes. But like, conceptually, like, if these three metrics are increasing, what you're able to accomplish goes up. Would you agree with that? If you're better at.

[A]

What do you mean by accomplish?

[B]

Like.

[A]

Like you can do. You can make more money. But that's. That's a truism, right? You say if you make more money, you can make more money. Yeah, duh.

[B]

Your life will be better. Your life will it.

[A]

Does money buy happiness?

[B]

Well, we're talking about three different metrics. Looks, money, status. Do you think that's.

[A]

Do looks, money, and status buy happiness?

[B]

Not necessarily, but that's my point. That's exactly as a general concept across a society. You don't think that dialing up these three metrics would cause an increase in quality of life for men?

[A]

They can also. They can also make your life.

[B]

They likely will. Let's not. Let's not be disingenuous here.

[A]

I'm not being disingenuous at all, actually. You can look at the data from lottery winners. Winning the lottery usually does not improve people's lives. Often it leaves them much worse off because they don't know how to handle the money. And they get this influx from out of nowhere. And often they'll go into debt, they end up with tax problems, they end up with marriage problems. Same thing can go for looks. You're seeing a divorce rate spike because of Ozempic. And though that might have some chemical aspects too, not merely just looking better. My point is all of these worldly measures of success, they can be great. Look, man, I'm not turning down money. Give me some more money. That sounds nice. I'm just saying there's some caution that goes with that, that should go with that. And if, as you say, money, status and looks are. I guess you're saying those are the end goal.

[B]

Well, what. I'm simply where I was going, but I find that ridiculous for anyone to disagree that increasing these metrics is not a positive thing.

[A]

But you just said money doesn't buy happiness. So you agreed with me previously and now you're saying it's ridiculous to say that.

[B]

I said said. You know, you're potentially right. Could money buy happiness? In some cases. But is it a positive thing? Could we Even phrase it like that, it can be. Okay.

[A]

Not always.

[B]

Right. So I'll take that. But once you've achieved this, whether you want to go the spiritual route, what you're talking about, or, you know, maybe you don't choose that. Maybe you're less and you choose to be, you know, maybe degenerate. It's like that's another whole conversation. I think we should just position ourselves in this, figure out what men should do after that.

[A]

But I guess that's the conversation, because I think you've gotten to it in that last part, which is, well, look, if you live a good life, if you do the things that are associated with a good life after the looks, money, and status, if you do the things that we consider to be, like, good, I think you'll have a good life. And if you do the things that make you a degenerate, you'll have a bad life. And my point is, looks, money, and status can lead you to both, and they can lead you to more of both, actually. And so that's the part that I'm curious about.

[B]

Yeah. So it's a generally positive thing to improve upon these metrics. We would just have to figure out what to do from there. And that's a very good conversation.

[A]

If looks, money, and status increase your likelihood of have. Let's say they can increase your likelihood of having a good life or they can increase your likelihood of having a degenerate life, then they're not generally a.

[B]

Positive, well, a good life in your context with being spiritual and being charitable.

[A]

I'm saying there's an object, just as you say there's an objectivity to beauty, I think there's an objectivity to the other, transcendental truth and goodness. So that goodness is not just a subjective thing. You know, you like chocolate, I like vanilla. But actually some things really are good. Some things really are bad.

[B]

And I, I would tend to agree with you a little bit that going the route of, of faith, going around, of humility versus, like, going around slaying a bunch of chicks after ascending, like, I'm. I'm more in. In your camp, of course, with that. So we don't really disagree there. Yeah, that's. That's ideal. But either way, I, I think, think just what I'm advocating for, increasing money, status, looks just seems very logical regardless of the route you choose to take. I advocate for what you're suggesting. That's just not the society we live in. So my realistic instinct is saying, okay, well, take advantage of how things are with the amount of women you're able to access now, just how it is.

[A]

You just, you would just.

[B]

I don't really think that's a contradiction whatsoever.

[A]

Well, if you're saying, look, yeah, Michael, I agree with you. It's. Once you've ascended, you shouldn't be just slaying all the time. You shouldn't be just.

[B]

I'm saying that's better.

[A]

It's better not to. Yeah, yeah. So you're saying that is better. And look, that's what I'll endeavor to do. And that's like, yeah, I think that's better for you, but maybe you should slay.

[B]

Well, that. No, no, I'm saying that's better for the society if, if everyone were to.

[A]

Take that and the individual or. No, I think it's better for you individually too, if you.

[B]

I think that's better for the society, whether or not that's better for the individual. That's a tough one.

[A]

Do you, you've ascended and you're going to ascend more with the jaw surgery, do you intend to use your ascent to go slay much more and, I don't know, do a bunch of, like, bad stuff or do you say no? It seems to me you were just telling me no, you know, that kind of got old. I'm not going to do it.

[B]

Yeah. But I feel like I'll have to test the waters of my ascension, like after. Right. Like that's, that's reasonable.

[A]

One thing we didn't get to. I know we're running late now. You do meth?

[B]

Yeah, I haven't done meth in two weeks, but I do meth. Yeah.

[A]

I sometimes do a little nicotine pouch and I think I'm being like, real bad. You know, I'm like, oh, I should I. But you. I would say for a good one here, the maxed, the max maxed version of the pouch is meth. Why do you do meth?

[B]

Well, because meth is very similar in terms of its makeup to something like Adderall, but it's got a little bit better psychoactive benefits. Meaning the Adderall has Levo amphetamine in it, which is a physical stimulant. And that's not necessarily ideal for a lot of the things that I'm doing, maybe task oriented stuff sitting on a computer, say, why do I need a physical stimulant? And meth also has a longer half life. And what meth actually is is dextrometh amphetamine. What? Adderall is 75% of it, at least. Is dexamphetamine. These are very similar, just the addition of the methyl group making it longer acting. And the reason I also like it to be longer acting for a luxemaxing context, is stimulants cause appetite suppressants.

[A]

But you're a big guy. In other words, don't you need a lot of calories to.

[B]

Well, no. I'm trying to maintain my leanness because the leaner you are, the more angular your face. And while I do use GLP1s, sometimes that's not enough to suppress my appetite. So I need to rely on stimulants.

[A]

There are downsides to meth.

[B]

Yeah, in high doses, it's neurotoxic, toxic, but its risk profile isn't that much higher than that of Adderall. But I think that it's not a good idea to do what I'm doing. I just really wanted to ascend hard when I first started, you know, getting viral on social media. So I did the math. I advocate against stimulants. I don't think that kids should be prescribed Adderall at the ages they are. Yeah. I think that people are gonna misuse their stimulant prescription more than not in more cases than not. So I'm very against it. I'm just open with everything that I do. I'm like, yes, now what?

[A]

Because I've heard this from very established people. They'll say, hey, I do this, that, and the other thing, but don't do what I'm doing. And I always say, if you say, don't do what I'm doing, why are you doing it?

[B]

Because I have enough willpower to be able to taper off of men.

[A]

You're saying, you're saying if everyone could do it in the way you do it, it's fine, but because most people.

[B]

Can'T, it's not necessarily fine. It's still neurotoxic. So maybe I traded like some neurotoxicity for temporary leanness to ascend really quickly. Because in my context, that was important to me. I was going viral on social media. I needed to get lean as quickly as possible.

[A]

When you talk about the neurotoxicity, do you think that will happen, have long term effects for you, like end of life?

[B]

Oh, no, no. Just. If I were to do meth for my entire life at high doses, then yes.

[A]

But you're. You're saying there will be no. You'll live just as long as you would have lived otherwise.

[B]

Yeah, I did meth for like a month.

[A]

Okay. That's it's true. This has all been very quick. But, but so you're saying all these things, the injections, the surgeries, the.

[B]

Oh, that. No, no, that won't really have an effect on my, my life. Right. The FDA removed. Removed like the warning labels from testosterone. And what testosterone actually does to causes cardiotoxicity is it increases your lipids. Right. Whereas reticerutide, which is a GLP one similar to Ozempic came out that lowers those lipids. So you know, you're able to offset some of the aging. The. The only thing that really would cause me to have some sort of issues of longevity is sometimes I do recreational drugs.

[A]

Bugs.

[B]

Which is.

[A]

Is bad just for fun.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Like what? You don't, you don't need to acid on air?

[B]

No, no, I, I've said all of it on air. I've literally done like every single thing.

[A]

Really?

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Like acid?

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Really?

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

You don't strike me. I had friends in college who would.

[B]

Got some in my wallet right now.

[A]

Are you on it right now?

[B]

No, I'm not on any. I'm on no drugs right now. I'm fully sober. I hate.

[A]

Why do you like the recreational drugs? I was always curious about acid, but I never did it. I'm happy I didn't do.

[B]

No, don't do it. Acid is the worst thing ever.

[A]

But it's in your wallet.

[B]

Yeah, because I took it one time like about a month ago and it's the worst thing ever. Psychedelics are like one of those leftist drug selections that really just are mind boggling.

[A]

Yeah. What did it do? Why didn't you like it?

[B]

Dude, it like made me giga paranoid. I had to lay down in my, the back of my car for like eight hours because I was like, like super anxious. It was like the worst experience of my life. So no lsd? Not good at all. Can really like rewire your brain and make you like a completely different person in terms of your motivations.

[A]

I've heard this. Yes.

[B]

So yeah, no, absolutely not don't do lsd. I just did it for like some of the neuroplasticity benefits and I thought, thought it was like, oh, I'm really smart, I'm gonna take lsd, but not worth it.

[A]

Are there any of the recreational drugs you like?

[B]

Yeah, I mean, I like cocaine.

[A]

I guess that goes. If you're doing meth, you might as well do a little of the.

[B]

Well, no, because actually cocaine is far more dangerous and there's actually a higher mortality risk than that of Meth because. Well, meth might be cardiotoxic over the long term because of like the vasoconstriction. You could die immediately from doing cocaine, even if it's your first time.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

So that's, that's the issue that you run into because you're blocking your sodium channel. You know, you could have a heart attack and be gone, be perfectly healthy guy. And then you're dead.

[A]

Right, right. And that's not even getting into it being cut with something else that's even more toxic. But. Right.

[B]

Yeah, absolutely.

[A]

So you think the recreational drugs could shorten your life? They were having long term effects.

[B]

Yeah, that's. That's arguably the worst thing that I do and that's probably a looks men so that I don't want just for fun. Yeah, yeah, exactly. I mean it. Cocaine, you can't eat on cocaine. But. And I do get what you're saying. It's like with the whole everyone says don't do this. It's just I, I'm a live streamer. I stream for eight hours sometimes. I don't want to have to like have people signing NDAs. Oh, like this guy is actually, you know, someone who does cocaine. This guy says the N word. It's like, I want to just do that on my live stream.

[A]

It's all out in the open.

[B]

Yeah. Like I'm.

[A]

Do you, do you do drugs on the live stream?

[B]

Yeah. So like that's the only reason, I.

[A]

Guess I drink on streams sometimes.

[B]

Yeah. We got some whiskey there.

[A]

Yeah. Better than the seltzer I'm having.

[B]

No. So exactly. That's the problem is like I don't want to influence people to do these things necessarily. But it would just be too much work to try to fraud like me not doing them.

[A]

There's a radical honesty, I guess to that. Is there any. So you got the jaw surgery coming up. Are there any other improvements you're planning or is it really just the jaw thing and then you're maxed out?

[B]

I'm gonna do a roid cycle again and get back into lifting weights.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

So that's going to be something I do. But jaw surgery is the main one.

[A]

Jaw surgery is the main one. But in terms of the like, jaw surgery seems more extreme than steroids in terms of like, you know, you're not going to get your neck lengthened or something. You're. That's it. In terms of physical plastic surgery.

[B]

That's the last one. Yeah, that's the last.

[A]

Okay. And then you're done.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

And Then what?

[B]

And then I'll continue upon improving my physique and looks maxing. Once you. There's no looks max, really, you could just improve to, like, the highest degree possible, and then you sort of have to maintain that. Like, if you do all this looks maxing, then you just get fat. It's like. So it's just about a maintenance thing, so it'll be pretty easy.

[A]

One time I worked out. It was basically just once in my life.

[B]

One time.

[A]

One time, it was in the Obama era, and I went and I. I said, I'm going to gain a lot of muscle, and I gained 20 pounds, and I cut my body fat in half. I joined the ymca. I was working out all the time, and I was eating a lot of meat and stuff, you know, and I actually felt pretty good. I had muscle for the first time in my life. I was like, that's kind of cool. And then I stopped working out, and I just became a fat guy for a few months.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

Yeah. And that was it. That was the end of it. Then I lost the weight, but I didn't go work out again. That was that. Yeah.

[B]

That's kind of what I'm on now is just maintaining my leanness. But I need to start lifting again. So those are, like, the next looks maxes I've got up and coming.

[A]

My producer, Ben Davies, has demanded that I. I hate this. He's demanded that I ask you to rate me on the scale of looks maxing. And I don't. I don't want to do that. I feel like it. That will be a painful.

[B]

Yeah, I. I don't want to do that either. I think that's, like, the worst bit that's ever been introduced to my Persona. My. My character is. People wanted me to rate them because it's like, why? What I advocate for as improving yourself and Whether you're a 5 out of 10 or whether you're a 7 out of 10, just try to look better. Do the things that I'm talking about to look better, but your immediate rating is meaningless.

[A]

That was. I think that was the most devastating answer you could have to say, hey, clavicular, where would you rate me? I don't want to rate you. Please don't make me rate you. I don't. Okay. All right. That's.

[B]

I mean, it also gets old when, like, I quite literally have, like, 50 people come up to me a day. Not joking. I'm not. Not exaggerating these numbers. Ask me for a rating, it gets.

[A]

Like, do you give it to Them.

[B]

No, no, you don't.

[A]

That's good. That's good. It's better. Let them live in. It's like people always overestimate their IQ. Everyone thinks they have 130 IQ or something, and most people do not.

[B]

Yeah, I hate the IQ thing. It's a joke.

[A]

Okay. Now on. We've talked a lot about men and how. And just men's issues and how men relate to women. Obviously, can look smacks. Is it harder or easier for women to look smacks than men?

[B]

I would say that it's probably around the same.

[A]

Good.

[B]

And all the stuff that we talked about, this is the one challenge for women is all the things that we're talking about, you know, status and money maxing. Women really can't do that and improve in the same ways. Like, if you're. If you're ugly as a woman, like, it's over. You know, it's literally over. Like, you could cope your way into a corporate position and make a little bit of money, but who gives a. Like, if you know you're an ugly broad, it's over for you.

[A]

You don't think a homely woman can get. Maybe she's not going to get Fabio, but, like, maybe she's not going to get clavicular, but she might. There's a guy out there, don't you think?

[B]

Well, in this dating market. Yeah.

[A]

In this dating economy.

[B]

But you get, like, the general premise of what I'm saying. Like, men could improve, like, in a lot more areas.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Than women.

[A]

I agree. Looks matter more for women. That's just a fact of life.

[B]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. So. Absolutely. And I think, like, all the degeneracy that we talk about, I often say, like, I'll criticize women a lot for, like, these things, like, you know, doing only fans. But I'm like, at the end of the day, when I finish my rant, I'm like, you're just taking advantage of the society that. That you live in. The generation of men that this world has produced who are buying this. It's like, no. No wonder you want to make hundreds of thousands of dollars putting pictures of yourself naked. It's like, who can blame you?

[A]

Yeah, it's.

[B]

And I. I like for men to take accountability for that.

[A]

Like, it's being the market for it. Yeah, yeah. It's obviously, it's both. I mean, these women are enticing men, which is wrong for them to do, and tempting them to sin, but it's like, yeah, the men are paying for it, so I get it.

[B]

Well, like, obviously women aren't gonna hold themselves accountable and, like, be moral people. So it's the job of men to shape the society. Like, really?

[A]

That's the Jack Nicholson line. And as good as it gets. The lady says, how do you write women so well? And he says, well, I think of a man and I take away reason and accountability.

[B]

Right.

[A]

That's the Jack Nicholson answer.

[B]

No. So that's quite literally the thing that I haven't really heard from many other, like, manosphere spaces is actually, like, shifting the blame onto men for cuck maxing and, like, being gooners watching porn.

[A]

Goon maxing, dude.

[B]

Like, literally, I've never heard this before, but it's our fault and it's our responsibility.

[A]

Yeah, I agree. That was something growing up in the 90s, you know, everyone was told porn is fine and fornication is fine and you should just, like, date forever and not get married. And I don't know, it was. It was all kind of a joke. You know, Hugh Hefner ended up getting his own TV show after decades of Playboy, and it was all, like, fine. And that has been a big shift, I've noticed, especially in the young. Right. Is the young men who are coming out and just saying, like, no, that's all really gay and degenerate and creepy and weird and, like, you shouldn't look at porn. Porn is bad. Am I just. Is that hopium or is that.

[B]

Yeah, a little bit. Just.

[A]

It is. Okay.

[B]

I don't, like. I don't like necessarily dumbing it down to just like, oh, porn is gay. It's like, no, porn is destroying your brain chemistry and your dopamine system. Like, it goes a lot deeper than that.

[A]

Yeah, like.

[B]

Yeah, well, so I. I like pointing to, like, the specific outcome of what people are doing. Not that it's like. Because. Sure. Like, you know, you tell someone, oh, like, what are you watching porn? You're, you know, like, it's not really going to sway people, but, you know, it's a little bit more convincing if you tell them they're utterly destroying their brain chemistry.

[A]

Hmm. Yeah, that's a fair point. Yeah, it does, right? I don't know the chemistry of it, but it shoots up dopamine or something.

[B]

Yeah, exactly. So that's kind of where I'm coming from, is like, specific reasoning, like, for not doing these things.

[A]

Yeah. I remember I saw a tweet going around. This was years ago. Someone said, wait, hold on. Some guys don't look at pornography. What do they think about all day?

[B]

Oh, yeah.

[A]

Did you ever see that tweet?

[B]

I've seen that in a ton of like right wing edits. Yeah.

[A]

Yeah. And you're like, look, maybe that was a work of fiction, but I.

[B]

It was obviously a rage bait tweet.

[A]

It was rage bait and everything. But it is certainly the case. I mean even I think you can allide fornication a little bit into it too. Like when you are occupying your day with just trying to chase women all the time, as many young men do.

[B]

Oh my God. Yeah, that's. Those are the most cringe like cocklords ever. Yeah, it's very.

[A]

It's very cuck maxed.

[B]

Yeah. I mean I would say that the, the hunt sometimes is like fun. Like going to a bar, like seeing what you could do is like, it can be like an enjoyable process. I, I guess you could say. But these guys who are like on dating apps, like swiping all day, just like, man, this is the most unproductive nonsense I've ever seen. It's just silly.

[A]

Yeah. I remember I was in Italy and an older Italian friend of mine said this to me. Almost that exact phrase. He goes, la caccia il di vertimento. The hunt is like all the fun, basically. Most of the fun. Yeah.

[B]

Yeah. No, literally. Yeah. And then you win and you're just like, ah, like can this girl like leave my house? Like literally. And I'll be a about it. I'll be like, you gotta go right now.

[A]

Well, you're saying. But even I wonder isn't like, even if you don't foreign a. Even if you just like get a girl to, I don't know, like you at a bar or something. Even that is kind of fun.

[B]

Do you think it's like more. I guess it's like morally ambiguous. Like just seeing if she'll like get. Go home with you to your house. And then you say ah. Nah, just trying my luck.

[A]

Look, that. You know that.

[B]

That could be based. Dude, that is.

[A]

Yes, that is. I think that's very based. Actually.

[B]

Gotta talk to a pastor about that.

[A]

Yeah, I think it's bad too. Like it's. But you know why it's bad? Look, it's better than fornicating with the girl. But the reason it's bad is if you want to get real, like traddy based. Plato makes the point that seduction is actually worse than rape. And this is a controversial point, of course, but his argument is that a rape, horrific as it is, is a physical violation. But seduction is also a spiritual violation. So it cuts Even deeper. So that would be the argument against hunt Max being a hunt cell. Hunt maxing at the bar. But maybe a little more wholesome than going all the way on this point. Monogamy in your life. You're 19. As you see your life down the road, let's say your late 20s or early 30s, whatever it's gonna be, you get married. Are you into monogamy or no? Yes.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Because there are all these guys who come out, they say no if you want to be like real cool, and there you go, dude.

[B]

Those are just like performative gestures, in my opinion.

[A]

I totally agree.

[B]

I think, like, all that, you know, rhetoric is extremely performative. I don't really think that they believe that even themselves.

[A]

They're trying to convince themselves.

[B]

Oh, yeah, no, absolutely. So it's just gotta be the right person for you to be faithful to. And that's just where, you know, maybe there's some overlap with what I'm. Those people and me is. It's just very difficult to find that. But once it's found, I think it would be ridiculous to suggest that monogamy is anything but the ideal.

[A]

Yeah. Yeah. No question. Yep. Clavicular. Do you have. I've given you a lot of advice. Do you have any advice for me?

[B]

Any advice for you?

[A]

Yes.

[B]

Yeah. So you've, you know, as we know, you've got this good producer set here.

[A]

I would. You think they're a good producer set?

[B]

Yeah, like with all the. The makeup and stuff, I would.

[A]

No, the makeup's great. Yeah.

[B]

So I would hide like the recession in your under eyes with.

[A]

I've had under eye bags since I was like a baby. It's crazy.

[B]

It's. Yeah, it's. It's the same Sydney Sini syndrome, I guess we could call it.

[A]

Hold on. So now I would have been. Because I think she's good looking. So if you had said, michael, you know, you. You have similar facial aspects to Sydney Sweeney. I'd say he's complimenting me. Are you telling me I looks just in the orbitals?

[B]

I think. But you could fix that quite easily.

[A]

Okay. How?

[B]

You could either do an implant. An orbital implant would be the best way. Or you could just do like the band aid on the gunshot wound method would be the concealer for the tear trough region.

[A]

Okay. I like that. Seems easier.

[B]

Yeah, a little bit. Not as effective.

[A]

Right. Okay.

[B]

Making sure that your hair stays intact. I don't know how old you are.

[A]

35.

[B]

Okay. So I don't know if you take finasteride already.

[A]

No.

[B]

Or Dutasteride. So starting a hair loss protocol sooner rather than later is the most important thing.

[A]

Okay. Are you on one of those?

[B]

Yes.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

Absolutely. And there's no detriment to taking this stuff. It's. It's amazing. So just maintaining the youthfulness, maintaining the looks as long as you can.

[A]

I heard hair loss drugs sometimes can give you ed.

[B]

That's like a nocebo thing. And that happens to like with Finasteride. Yeah, that's true. It could happen to like 1% of users, I believe have reported.

[A]

1%'S a lot.

[B]

But it's. And say you were to take finasteride and be that rare case, Extremely rare, where you have libido issues. It's only acute while you're taking the drug.

[A]

Oh, okay. It's not. Doesn't last forever. Okay. And plus, I already have three kids, so, you know. Yeah, I mean, I'd like some more, but. Okay.

[B]

Well, you could also take TRT to offset that.

[A]

Okay. All right.

[B]

Trt Finasteride. That'd be a really good place to start. That would set you so much further ahead than your average 35 year old guy. You really wouldn't have to do much more than that. And a GLP one to make dieting and staying lean extremely easy.

[A]

Okay. And a GLP. What is that? That's a peptide.

[B]

A GLP1 agonist. Yeah, that's a peptide. Okay.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

Red is shoe. Tide turns up a tide. Those are the three main GLP ones.

[A]

Should I close max at all? I'm in. You know, they get me a nice wardrobe here. Is there any clothes maxing that goes with the looks? Maxing?

[B]

I wouldn't be the one who could.

[A]

That looks. That's good. That's a good wardrobe. You think?

[B]

No, I think that the comment section is going to brutalize me at this timestamp.

[A]

Really? No. That's a nice shirt. Like that shirt?

[B]

Yeah. Goodwill maxing.

[A]

But now that I've done a little goodwill maxing.

[B]

There you go. So. So essentially those things to kind of just like place you ahead physically of people your age really go a long way.

[A]

Clavicular. This has been a maximally enjoyable discussion. Thank you very much. Thank you for coming in.

[B]

Appreciate it.

[A]

What was it like, Merlin, to be alone with God? Is that who you think I was alone with? Maradin? I knew your father. I am yet convinced that he was not of this world. All men know of the great Taliesin who are my father, that the gods should war for my soul.

[B]

Princess Garrus Saviour of our people.

[A]

I know what the Bull God offered you. I was offered the same. And there is a new pirate work in the world. I've seen it. A God who sacrifices what he loves for us. We are each given only one life. Singer. No. We're given another. I learned of Yazu the Christ. And I have become his followers. He's waiting on a miracle. And I think you can give him one. Trust in Yaezu. He is the only hope for men like us. Fate of Britain never rests in the hands of the Great Light. Great light. Great darkness. Such things mattered to me then. What matters to you now, Mistress of lies? You, nephew. The sword of a high king. How many lives must be lost before you accept the power you were born to wield? So clinging to the promises of a God who has abandoned you. I cannot take up that sword again. You know what you must do. Great Life, forgive. The time has come to be reborn.