Michael Knowles DEBATES Two Liberals | Bar Fight ft. Adam Mockler & Cecilia Rae

Summary

The Michael Knowles Show: “Bar Fight” Debate – Episode Summary

Date: October 4, 2025
Guests: Adam Mockler, Cecilia Rae
Theme: Spirited live debate on immigration, gay marriage, male loneliness, economics, and Trump’s record, with a raucous audience and unfiltered opinions from across the political spectrum.

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Episode Overview

In this special “Bar Fight” edition of The Michael Knowles Show, host Michael Knowles brings together two outspoken liberal guests—Adam Mockler and Cecilia Rae—for a rowdy, no-holds-barred debate in front of a live, highly engaged audience.

Each panelist presents contentious topics—including deportation policies, gay marriage, OnlyFans and male loneliness, Trump’s tariffs, and the Ukraine war—sparking heated (and often hilarious) exchanges. The audience is encouraged to jump in on the action, challenging and grilling the panelists throughout.

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Key Segments & Discussion Highlights

1. Deportations & Immigration: Data, Dollars, and Morality

Timestamps: 01:14 – 13:52

Main Points:

• Knowles’ Position: Current deportations are beneficial (“gotten rid of lots of criminals, lots of face tattooed, Satan worshipping gangsters” [01:54]), but not enough. Argues more deportations would further lower crime and public welfare spending.
• Cecilia Ray’s Rebuttal: Cites economic benefits from immigrants (“they pay $89 billion in taxes while Tesla and Amazon pay zero” [02:43]) and lower crime rates compared to citizens, referencing DOJ studies.
• Adam Mockler’s Framing: Agrees on deporting criminals but criticizes the Trump administration for targeting farm workers and civil violators, not just criminals ([05:53]). Calls for clarity between civil/criminal infractions and a pathway to citizenship for contributors.
• Audience Interruption: Audience member blames corporate interests for cheap labor and claims both parties benefit ([08:01]).
• Contentious Exchanges: Sharp disagreement on whether immigrants are a drain or a benefit, with both sides trading statistics.
• Memorable Quote:
  • Knowles: “The only problem is, if we want to improve crime statistics... we need to deport more.” [01:31]
  • Cecilia: “I’d rather have people here that are willing to cross thousands of miles with just the clothes on their back...” [02:43]
  • Adam: “If somebody is here illegally and they commit crimes, get them out of here. Right?” [05:10]

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2. Race, Profiling, and ICE Enforcement

Timestamps: 13:52 – 19:00

• Mockler Challenges: “Are you guys okay with ICE racially profiling?” [13:26]
• Knowles Responds: Acknowledges that enforcement often follows “multiple touch points,” not strict racial profiling. “If ICE is confronted with a little Norwegian grandma and a guy named Jose who doesn’t speak a lick of English... probably go for Jose.” [11:36]
• Mockler Pushback: Suggests overall profiling still occurs by language and appearance.
• Tension/Ethnicity: Cecilia and Adam point out hypocrisy and “anti-American” stances from some in the audience opposed to any immigration [09:40–13:49].

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3. Gay Marriage & Adoption: The Adam and Steve Debate

Timestamps: 13:56 – 22:13

• Knowles’s Provocation: Declares “there’s no such thing as gay marriage” and claims children do worse on “every measure” in same-sex households [15:17].
• Adam’s Counter: Asserts there is legal gay marriage, and that studies are cherry-picked; factors outside sexual orientation often explain differences.
• Contentious Stats: Knowles cites a UT Austin study; Adam accuses Knowles of evading the real question about foster care vs. same-sex adoption.
• Memorable Back-and-Forth: Adam, repeatedly: “Would you rather [kids] spend most of their formative years in foster care or with two parents that are the same sex?” [18:49–19:41]
• Cecilia: Notes gay couples often adopt children who would otherwise be left without families.

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4. Male Loneliness/‘Incel’ Culture & OnlyFans

Timestamps: 23:27 – 38:14

Male Loneliness

• Cecilia’s Take: Views the ‘incel’ movement as largely self-imposed, exacerbated by social media and dating apps; encourages men to “get out in the wild” and socialize offline [25:51].
• Adam’s Perspective: Attributes rise in male loneliness to social-media isolation, worsened by the COVID-19 pandemic [27:30].
• Knowles’s Validation: Agrees, adding “just be normal... the behavior worked for your parents, it worked for your grandparents” [28:17].
• Audience Participation: Raises issues with OnlyFans and dating prospects in a culture saturated by online sex work [32:12].

OnlyFans & Sexual Morality

• Knowles: Calls OnlyFans “objectively bad”; supports regulating/banning it, arguing government should pursue the “common good” [33:59].
• Adam: Opposes government morality policing, warns against the slippery slope when administrations change.
• Audience Poll: Split responses to whether OnlyFans should be banned, with Knowles ribbing Adam for not clapping [34:48–35:11].
• Cecilia: Argues it’s a personal decision; “you have to go to their page to see it” [35:37], challenging Knowles’s intent to legislate personal morality.

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5. Trump’s Tariffs & Trade Policy

Timestamps: 39:51 – 55:00

• Adam’s Critique: Argues Trump’s tariffs are inflationary, confusing, and not targeted—“no rhyme or reason... lever for corruption” [39:58]; asks for evidence of actual successful trade deals.
• Knowles’s Defense: Concedes tariffs were confusing “intentionally,” but claims they raised over $100 billion in revenue and boosted US manufacturing [43:41].
• Data Dueling: Adam challenges revenue and job growth claims, points out increased costs and lack of clear China deal.
• Audience Input: Warns against focusing only on short-term outcomes—“We need to be looking at 5 years, 10 years, 20 years from now...” [49:54].

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6. Ukraine, Putin, and American Foreign Policy

Timestamps: 58:14 – 61:07

• Adam’s Criticism: Accuses Trump of adopting Putin’s position, arguing for severe consequences to prevent Russian aggression [58:14].
• Knowles’s Defense: Points out “the only president on whose watch Vladimir Putin has not further invaded a country... is Donald Trump” [59:46]. Suggests negotiating broader peace deals requires time and pressure.
• Cecilia’s Quip: “Trump is Putin’s b. He sat down and spoke before our president. I’m sorry.” [59:46]

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Notable Quotes & Crowd Moments

• “Just because you’re wrong about something doesn’t mean it’s not [true].” – Michael Knowles [34:02]
• “Are you anti-American? You are.” – Adam Mockler to audience [07:44]
• “If you look the wrong skin color, if you have the wrong tattoos, they’re just picking you up.” – Cecilia Ray [11:19]
• “There is no such thing as gay marriage…” – Michael Knowles [15:18]
• “I want to help you get laid. Not me.” – Cecilia Ray [10:10, reprised 27:13]
• “All of these people in your eyes are just complete moral degenerates who are wrong?” – Adam Mockler [34:14]
• “No, just the numbers don’t lie.” – Michael Knowles, on tariffs [49:19]
• “You guys know that Trump has all his [stuff] made in China, right?” – Cecilia [52:23]

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Tone & Style

• Combative, rowdy, and unfiltered: Frequent interruptions, cheers, and jeers from the audience.
• Witty banter: Sarcastic remarks, running jokes about “incels” and “volcels” (voluntary celibates), and references to pop culture.
• Provocative: Frequent loaded questions and rhetorical flourishes—panellists and crowd alike go for maximum impact.
• Populist: Both host and guests play to the audience—polling them directly and riffing off their questions.

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Structure & Flow

• Opening exchange: Panelists introduce themselves and set up the bar fight “rules.”
• Rotating topics: Immigration, gay marriage, OnlyFans, male loneliness, and tariffs—with audience interruptions and free-for-alls.
• VIP selection: Audience members and panelists vote for “VIPs” (and “losers”) of each round.
• Closing: Final audience questions, summary taunts, and light-hearted insults before the party breaks to the bar.

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For Listeners Who Missed the Episode

This episode was less about formal debate and more about energetic culture-war combat, with Michael Knowles defending populist-conservative orthodoxy against progressive challenges from Adam Mockler and Cecilia Rae. The atmosphere was loud, quick-witted, and irreverent, packed with sharp rebuttals and no small amount of theatrical posturing.

If you’re interested in how the left and right clash over today’s biggest culture and policy questions—with data, emotion, and sarcasm alike—this is a must-listen.

Transcript

[Cecilia Ray]

Trump is Putin's b.

[Adam Mockler]

You are anti American.

[Michael Knowles]

No, no, no, no, no, no. Let me talk. Most of the illegals are asylum seekers or are they economic? Wait, no, wait, wait, wait, wait.

[Cecilia Ray]

I want to help you get laid. Not me.

[Michael Knowles]

Like, are you pro incel.

[Cecilia Ray]

No.

[Michael Knowles]

Well, welcome to Bar Fight. I'm Michael Knowles. I'm joined tonight by two guests. Wow.

[Adam Mockler]

Real sophisticated answer.

[Michael Knowles]

I know you would know him from CNN if anyone ever watched Adam Mochler.

[Adam Mockler]

Well, dude, you got to answer my question.

[Michael Knowles]

Just because you're wrong about something doesn't mean it's not.

[Adam Mockler]

That's convenient.

[Cecilia Ray]

You know what? You should get out of my country.

[Michael Knowles]

They want more deportations. I'm also joined one of the most reasonable people ever to appear on Jubilee. That would be Cecilia Ray. This is how it works. We have each brought three topics to the table. The audience chooses the topics. We will duke it out. Then our highly sober audience. I can already tell how sober you are. You can go up to the microphones, pick a fight with any of us. If you want to fight me, you go to the blue microphone. If you want to fight my guests, you go to the red microphone. Let's get into it. Ceci. Ladies first.

[Cecilia Ray]

Okay. If the big beautiful bill is the ugliest piece of legislation written for the American people.

[Michael Knowles]

Okay. Adam.

[Adam Mockler]

Trump is putting Russia first before America first. When it comes to the Ukraine war. He's putting Russia first. Yeah.

[Michael Knowles]

Okay.

[Adam Mockler]

Nope. You guys can boo all you want. It's true.

[Michael Knowles]

Okay.

[Adam Mockler]

Yep.

[Michael Knowles]

My topic is the only problem with Trump's deportations is we need more of them.

[Adam Mockler]

This feels a little bit skewed.

[Michael Knowles]

It seems a little bit. All done. I thought Nashville was a blue city. I don't know. The whole country's turned red, though. Mr. Davies, who won?

[Audience Member]

Looks like the people want more deportations.

[Michael Knowles]

They want more deportations.

[Adam Mockler]

Let's hear Michael.

[Michael Knowles]

All right. The deportations have been great thus far. We've gotten rid of lots of criminals. We've gotten rid of lots of face tattooed, Satan worshipping gangsters. I think it's all really good. We have cut crossings over the border down to basically nothing in May. It was literally nothing. Not one man apprehended historic lows since then. So that's all been great. Self deportations have been Even better than 2.1 million immigrants have deported foreign born in just the last seven months. 1.6 million of them illegal. That's 10% probably of the illegal alien average. The only problem is, if we want to improve our crime statistics, if we want to Improve safety. And if we want to improve drains on our public welfare systems, we need to deport more.

[Adam Mockler]

No.

[Michael Knowles]

You say no.

[Adam Mockler]

Why am I going to start?

[Cecilia Ray]

I'll go.

[Michael Knowles]

I say, ladies first.

[Cecilia Ray]

Yeah, I'll go. Okay, so. So here's the thing with the deportations, is that you look at it through three different lenses. The first lens you can look at it through is the money lens, right? The billionaire lens where they pay $89 billion in taxes while Tesla and Amazon pay zero. So we're gonna toss out 89 billion, but we don't know what you know. And then the second lens you could look at it through is, oh, they're all criminals. But in reality, a study done by the Justice Department in 2021 showed us that American born citizens are 10 times more likely to be incarcerated for a weapons charge, five times more likely for violent crime, two times more likely for drug offenses, and two times more likely for property crime over documented and undocumented immigrants. And it's because when they come here, they have more to lose than we do. I'd rather have people here that are willing to cross thousands of miles with just the clothes on their back because they really want to be here. And we've seen our GDP as cross crashed into the negative. All these farm jobs that you guys all say, oh, I'm gonna go, they took our job, they're empty. Why is no one taking them? What do y'.

[Adam Mockler]

All.

[Cecilia Ray]

What's going on?

[Michael Knowles]

Okay, Adam, do you agree?

[Adam Mockler]

I have my own framing that I want to approach this with. Do you want to respond or can I go?

[Michael Knowles]

Sure. So you mentioned that the non illegals, the citizens, commit far higher crime. That's a little strange because when you look at the federal docket for just 2024, almost 1/3 of cases on the federal docket are non citizens. That's much, much higher than their share of the population, which is in the single digits, probably about 5% for illegal aliens alone. Then if you look at the prison population, BOP 15% of inmates are non citizens, much, much higher than their share of the population, which is 4%. Then if you look at just the costs to the cities I go to, I can go to New York, my old hometown. The New York comptroller showed that they were spending one and a half billion dollars in 2023 on the illegal aliens who were there. That number doubled the following year, 2024 to 3 billion. It's over $3 billion this year. So when you say this is a net positive for the economy, they're contributing so much more than the billionaires. When you say they're no good for crime. I don't know. I look at the numbers from. I look at the numbers out of New York, I look at the numbers out of the cbo, I look at the numbers out of National Academies of Science, and I say they're all contradicting you.

[Cecilia Ray]

You know, your study. I don't ever trust your statistics.

[Adam Mockler]

Can I hop in real quick?

[Cecilia Ray]

Go for it.

[Adam Mockler]

Okay, so I'm going to take a little bit of a different approach when it comes to this. I want to start off with the fundamental idea. Everybody in here agrees that if somebody is here illegally and they commit crimes. Get them out of here. Right.

[Michael Knowles]

Get them the hell out of here.

[Adam Mockler]

Yeah, if somebody is here. Listen.

[Michael Knowles]

Yeah. Did you just hear.

[Adam Mockler]

Michael?

[Cecilia Ray]

Not all of them.

[Adam Mockler]

Michael, is there a difference between a civil and a criminal violation? Well, wait, is crossing the border illegally a civil or a criminal violation?

[Michael Knowles]

It depends on the case. But it can be a civil violation.

[Adam Mockler]

So it's not a violation. Illegal. So can I just.

[Michael Knowles]

We can. It can be.

[Adam Mockler]

Okay, so let's all start off with the fundamental idea.

[Michael Knowles]

But it's still illegal.

[Adam Mockler]

No, it's not. It is a civil violation. Well, it is not a criminal.

[Michael Knowles]

What does illegal mean?

[Adam Mockler]

Criminals.

[Michael Knowles]

What does illegal. Criminals.

[Adam Mockler]

Okay, so let me just get into this. I can start with the fundamental idea that if somebody is here illegally and they commit crimes, they should be sent to another country's prison. And I'm a libtard. By all standards. I'm a libtard, and I believe that. But that is not what the Trump administration is prioritizing. They have reallocated funds meant for the deportation of criminals towards the deportation of farm workers, the deportation of people going to the courthouse. Trump made a true social post. Listen. Trump made a true social post where he said all the great farmers of Iowa just called me and said, I am deporting too many of. Did that happen? Did he make that true social.

[Michael Knowles]

Yeah, unfortunately, he stopped deporting. He continued deporting them.

[Adam Mockler]

Your issue right here is that you always say liberals are taking these 8020 positions, and you're not quite there, but you're getting closer to the 8020 position than we are. 70% of Americans want a legal pathway for people who are here contributing to the country. And what Donald Trump is doing. One more point. What Donald Trump is doing is criminalizing asylum en masse and prioritizing the deportation of farm workers.

[Michael Knowles]

Most of the illegals are. Are asylum seekers or are they economic?

[Adam Mockler]

Wait, no, Wait, wait, what?

[Michael Knowles]

You said? Yeah.

[Adam Mockler]

Most of the illegals are asylum seekers. Asylum seeking is not illegal, Michael.

[Cecilia Ray]

That's a pathway.

[Adam Mockler]

Sorry. Then the.

[Michael Knowles]

The elite, the people that we would call illegal aliens. Non citizens in the United States who aren't on a green card, who are not here on a visa. Are most of them what, silence seekers or are they economic?

[Adam Mockler]

What percent of the people deport?

[Michael Knowles]

You're not going to answer that question because you know the answer.

[Adam Mockler]

Wait, no. What percent of the people deported have had criminal violations? It's only 30 to 40%. So 60% of the people deported have no criminal violations.

[Cecilia Ray]

Guys, they're not rounding up.

[Adam Mockler]

Can I test the audience? Can I. Can I test you guys? If somebody comes over here and seeks asylum and what they try to do is build a better life, build a family, and they're working on a farm, do you guys think there should be a path to citizenship to become an American that is the antithesis of what America stands for. You guys are anti American then?

[Cecilia Ray]

Yeah. You are.

[Adam Mockler]

You are anti American.

[Michael Knowles]

I imagine going to a Nashville bar, talking to great patriots and saying you're anti American. That's the craziest America was built off of.

[Adam Mockler]

Immigrant.

[Michael Knowles]

Yeah, Adam, you can find your point. Then we got some questions right here. Okay, okay.

[Audience Member]

To the panel. Americans will work every single job. They just want to be paid a wage that's worth it and treated well. The only reason. Do not. Let me. Let me talk. The only reason that we have illegal immigration and so much legal immigration is because the corporate lobby wants cheap labor and they can treat their workers like shit.

[Michael Knowles]

Hey, hold on. I want to make a correction. I want to make a correction. The other reason is that Democrats want a permanent electoral majority.

[Audience Member]

They want. They want an electorate where they do not have to campaign. They don't need good ideas. They will just win every single election because of the people they imported.

[Adam Mockler]

That's funny because went red nose went closer to being read this election. So it's kind of funny.

[Cecilia Ray]

Do you think that once we deport everyone that suddenly Congress is going to raise minimum wage?

[Audience Member]

It's not about the minimum wage. It's about labor economics. Wages go up when there are less people to do the job. Who are tax wages will go up when there's less people do the job.

[Michael Knowles]

That guy is seriously vying for a VIP table. Spot a maple.

[Adam Mockler]

Wait, wait, wait, wait, wait.

[Cecilia Ray]

No, I want to say.

[Audience Member]

Am I going to go?

[Cecilia Ray]

Okay, I want to say one more thing right now. So this whole mass deportation thing, first off, they're not going to raise minimum wage for you. Because everyone.

[Audience Member]

I'm not asking you to do that.

[Michael Knowles]

I think what he's saying is.

[Audience Member]

Because it's not about the minimum wage.

[Michael Knowles]

Right. Because there are pressures on the labor market when you flood it with a low price.

[Cecilia Ray]

For hiring an expensive. Exploiting them. That's why.

[Audience Member]

Available. That is. But that. That's the market.

[Cecilia Ray]

This whole mass deportation thing, just so everyone knows it is all to fuel the racism in this country. When in reality. When in reality. Stop. In reality, the only color. The only color that matters in this country is green. Are you green enough? And 99 of us are not. So you're not going to get a pass unless you could pay for it.

[Michael Knowles]

Yep. But.

[Adam Mockler]

Yeah, but.

[Cecilia Ray]

Money.

[Michael Knowles]

But the. But to our earlier point, if that were true, though, Ceci, the. The illegal aliens are a drain on resources at the state and local.

[Cecilia Ray]

They're not.

[Michael Knowles]

According to the cbo.

[Adam Mockler]

The CBO that you guys don't trust.

[Michael Knowles]

When it's convenient for you, but also according.

[Adam Mockler]

Do you trust the CBO on the big beautiful bill?

[Michael Knowles]

Well, I certainly trust it more than Adam Mockler. Do you. Do you. Do you believe the CBO or.

[Adam Mockler]

No, Listen, if we enacted the mass deportation that Donald Trump wants over the next decade and $900 billion would increase the deficit, 3.3% of our off. Okay, wait.

[Audience Member]

Pays for their health care.

[Adam Mockler]

Wait. Can I ask you a question? Can I ask you a question? Would you be okay with people being here, Immigrating here?

[Audience Member]

Probably not.

[Adam Mockler]

No, listen.

[Audience Member]

Probably not.

[Cecilia Ray]

Can I ask you why?

[Adam Mockler]

So you're just un American.

[Cecilia Ray]

Wait, wait. I just want to ask.

[Adam Mockler]

So you're just un American.

[Cecilia Ray]

Wait, but I wasn't born here.

[Michael Knowles]

I wasn't even born here.

[Adam Mockler]

You weren't born here and you don't want people to immigrate here because we.

[Audience Member]

Have more than enough.

[Cecilia Ray]

You know. What?

[Michael Knowles]

Are you gay?

[Adam Mockler]

And you hate gay people, too?

[Audience Member]

It's my country.

[Cecilia Ray]

You weren't born here.

[Audience Member]

That doesn't matter.

[Cecilia Ray]

Right? That's the way, guys.

[Audience Member]

No, it's not. I. I want to do it.

[Michael Knowles]

I don't see any contradiction today.

[Cecilia Ray]

And you're not from here.

[Michael Knowles]

That's okay.

[Cecilia Ray]

You're a hypocrite. You're a hypocrite.

[Michael Knowles]

I don't think it's hypocritical to come to a country and then say that.

[Cecilia Ray]

No one else is allowed after.

[Adam Mockler]

I don't really want this guy in my country. I don't know.

[Michael Knowles]

I do. I like. I want to elect that guy Senate or something. I Definitely want.

[Cecilia Ray]

You're also a little brown.

[Michael Knowles]

Jesus. You say he looks brown.

[Cecilia Ray]

That's what they're doing. If you look the wrong skin color, if you have the wrong tattoos, they're just picking you up.

[Michael Knowles]

All right, do we have another question back there?

[Adam Mockler]

Wait, I have a question. I have a question. Are you guys okay with ICE racially profiling?

[Cecilia Ray]

Oh, so we got a bunch of racists in the audience.

[Michael Knowles]

Well, hold on.

[Adam Mockler]

Are you okay with ICE racially profiling?

[Michael Knowles]

I think if ICE is confronted with a little Norwegian grandma and a guy named Jose who doesn't speak a lick of English and either trying to pick up illegals or probably go for Jose. Right. The racial. Is that racial profile?

[Adam Mockler]

Technically, that's probably not what I'm talking about. You can go to. What are you talking example?

[Michael Knowles]

I said you got a Norwegian and a Hispanic. You're picking up illegal.

[Cecilia Ray]

So you're picking the white person is what you're doing.

[Michael Knowles]

I would. I would not pick the white person. Because she didn't. You're hoping.

[Adam Mockler]

The most extreme example. But do you think you should be able to go somewhere and if there's a group of people speaking Spanish, you should be able to directly target them due to the Spanish that they're speaking?

[Michael Knowles]

Do. Speaking. Speaking Spanish is not a race.

[Adam Mockler]

I'm just talking about the profile.

[Michael Knowles]

Plenty of white people speak Spanish. Even black people do, too.

[Adam Mockler]

They are profiling people based on their language, their skin color and things. That's what I'm saying. And are you.

[Michael Knowles]

Hold on. That's different. Adam, that's a very important point. You're saying, should we. Should we profile people based on strictly one criterion? And I would say, ah, probably not. That's probably broad brush.

[Adam Mockler]

But they think you should.

[Michael Knowles]

Hold on.

[Adam Mockler]

But the audience thinks you should. So you disagree with your own audience?

[Michael Knowles]

No, no. You just said, wait, should we racial profile? Hold on. But what. What you just said was race. Speaking a foreign language in an enclave that segregated from the mainstream community, speaking in their own way. Well, now you got like, five different touch points. Yes, I would say Tom Holman. Round him up.

[Adam Mockler]

Here's the problem. The Trump administration has admitted they have done illegal deportations when they brought back Kilmar Armando Abrego Garcia.

[Michael Knowles]

Kilmar Abrego. Give me a break. This gangster from Maryland, the Democrat Senator Chris Van Hollen, love of his life. Wait a minute.

[Adam Mockler]

If he's a gangster, why did the Trump administration bring him back?

[Michael Knowles]

He's being prosecuted right now in the United States.

[Adam Mockler]

Why do they bring him back?

[Michael Knowles]

Because Some two bit federal judge made him do it, so now he's being prosecuted here.

[Adam Mockler]

Why would they agree if it was just Trump always disagrees with judges. Why would he bring him back? It's because.

[Michael Knowles]

Because Trump's not a tyrant like you. People always say that he is. He follows the law, he listens to the courts, and he works within the system of laws. Okay, now, who was the VIP in that round? Is it. Do we even have to ask? Was that. Is that our future senator? Mr. Not born here American. Where's he. Where's he at? Sir, you get to go to the VIP table. Great to see you.

[Adam Mockler]

Paolo.

[Michael Knowles]

Paolo. That's a good name. Is that Italian? All right, now that's.

[Adam Mockler]

Get him out of our country. Get him out of our country.

[Cecilia Ray]

Yeah.

[Michael Knowles]

Anti Italian discrimination. Okay, now, folks, Ceci, would you like to go first?

[Cecilia Ray]

Okay, so my top topic is Trump is using national emergencies to distract from the Epstein files because he's in them.

[Michael Knowles]

Okay, does that do it for you? That's okay.

[Adam Mockler]

All right, Adam, how about this one? Trump's tariffs have been an unmitigated disaster. They haven't. Yeah, they have been a disaster. Boo the tariffs.

[Cecilia Ray]

Yeah, boo.

[Michael Knowles]

I don't like that topic because it's so wrong. Okay, my topic is it's Adam and Eve, not Adam and Steve. Gay marriage is really bad for kids. Is that all right? Wow. All right, Michael, you won't. We're gonna do Adam and Steve first. Wow. Man. 2003 slogans still crushing in 2025. Love it. Okay, let's get into it. Seems to me there's no such thing as gay marriage. There's nothing against guys who are a little light in the loafers. I lived in New York, in la. I went to the gayest university in the world, but it's just Yale. It was Yale. He guessed it. But men and women are different. And so the union of two men is different from the union of two women. And that's different from a marriage, which is a man. And. And I think that men and women both have something to contribute. I think that children benefit from a mother and a father. I don't think men and women can be replaced and substituted for each other. And the science shows that kids who are raised in gay households do a lot work on basically every measure.

[Cecilia Ray]

That's not true.

[Adam Mockler]

Yeah.

[Michael Knowles]

So what did I get wrong?

[Adam Mockler]

A few things. First of all, I just want to start with the fundamental fact that I think marriage is important. I think that marriage is something that should be incentivized and In America, there is gay marriage. You can say, gary, gay marriage does not exist, but there is gay marriage since 2015.

[Michael Knowles]

It's like saying there's up, down, though. You could say it, but it doesn't make it real.

[Adam Mockler]

Legally, if people get married. Have gay people gotten married in the United States?

[Michael Knowles]

No. Well, some have when they're hiding their true desires, I guess.

[Adam Mockler]

Legally, have gay people gotten married in the United States? Have a man and a man legally gotten married?

[Michael Knowles]

No, that's not possible. That'd be like swimming in outer space. It doesn't mean anything.

[Adam Mockler]

Wait, guys in the crowd. Two men have never gotten married ever in America.

[Michael Knowles]

They've. They've married women.

[Adam Mockler]

What do you mean? Semantics. Can you explain what you mean by semantics? No, I'm straight. I'm just trying to defend.

[Michael Knowles]

If you have a point to make, go up to the microphone.

[Adam Mockler]

Yeah, yeah. So I feel like you're the one.

[Michael Knowles]

That'S playing semantics when you say, well, semantics means meaning. And I'm trying to get to the meaning.

[Adam Mockler]

By the way, semantics are very, very important. So when we look at the laws in the United States, you cannot look me in the eyes and say, two women have never gotten married. You can play semantics.

[Michael Knowles]

Yeah, I'm looking you right in the eyes. Two women have never married.

[Cecilia Ray]

True.

[Adam Mockler]

You guys can cheer, but I'm sure.

[Cecilia Ray]

You guys, we know that people have things.

[Adam Mockler]

But let's go downstream to your next argument that children don't do better in gay marriages, which I think there's a lot of statistics showing the exact opposite. There's. Such as, there's studies. I. There's one that I was reading earlier. I can't remember the exact name, but it was the main one that it's supposed to prove that gay. That children in same sex couple or same sex marriages don't perform as well. But there were a lot of other factors they weren't controlling for, such as unstableness in the family household, which was not directly related to gay couples. But can I ask you a question?

[Michael Knowles]

Hold on, hold on. So you were touching on points that do bear on that. But this is a very important part of the debate. Yeah. Because the study that everyone cites in defense of gay marriage, gay marriage, is the Rosenfeld study from Stanford 2010. And it found that the kids raised in gay households did just as well as the kids raised in normal households. The problem was that the study eliminated households where the parents had moved and the kids had moved within five years. That disproportionately removed the same sex households. So that was re examined later on. And when you controlled for that fact, it wiped it away. More importantly, in 2012, there was a study that came out of UT Austin. This was much more thorough. It measured the kids of married parents, heterosexual living together parents, two fellas, two chicks, measured them on 80 different measures of social outcome. The parent or the children rather of the same sex. Couples did worse on 77 out of 80. The exceptions were voting habits and alcoholism among kids raised by.

[Adam Mockler]

Can I ask you a question?

[Michael Knowles]

No.

[Cecilia Ray]

I want to ask a question really quick. Would you rather. So the gays, when they adopt are taking kids who don't have homes. Would you rather keep in the foster.

[Michael Knowles]

Care system sometimes intentionally purchasing kids.

[Cecilia Ray]

With.

[Michael Knowles]

The intention of depriving mothers?

[Cecilia Ray]

They go through the same checks as straight couples to adopt.

[Adam Mockler]

Can I say a few things really quickly? Can I ask a question?

[Michael Knowles]

Sure.

[Adam Mockler]

So, yeah. Each state has different laws that are. You have to meet certain requirements to adopt people. So you cannot just adopt somebody if you're an absolute piece of shit all the time.

[Cecilia Ray]

But plus, how many straight people have kids that shouldn't.

[Adam Mockler]

You can, you can. But overall there are house checks, there are things that go through. Can I ask you a simple question though?

[Michael Knowles]

Yes.

[Adam Mockler]

Say a kid was abandoned by their family at a young age and they're growing up in the foster care system. Would you rather them spend most of their formative years in the foster care system or with two parents that are the same sex?

[Michael Knowles]

So I think it's very telling that you're focusing on older children in the foster care system and not defending kids who are either adopted as newborns or kids who are. Which is an increasingly frequent occurrence, kids who are purchased through the IVF and surrogacy industry with the intention of depriving them of their natural mothers. I think you're doing it because it's the most sort of.

[Adam Mockler]

You're not answering my question that. Wait, did he just answer my question?

[Cecilia Ray]

Yeah. Do you want them in the.

[Michael Knowles]

No. I guess. I guess my answer is no. You pivoted around because the overwhelming scientific evidence backs up the overwhelming common sense evidence that.

[Adam Mockler]

I'm going to ask you a question one more time.

[Michael Knowles]

I'm answering it for you. That kids do worse on virtually every measure raised by same sex children.

[Adam Mockler]

I rather have them in the foster care system.

[Michael Knowles]

I. I don't. I don't think.

[Cecilia Ray]

Yes or no.

[Adam Mockler]

You've kind of just slithered around it. Wait, what's his answer been, guys?

[Michael Knowles]

Yeah, I don't.

[Cecilia Ray]

Does he want to know your answer, bro?

[Adam Mockler]

Clarify Your answer for me.

[Michael Knowles]

I am. I am answering it for you.

[Adam Mockler]

What is his answer?

[Michael Knowles]

I don't think that children do well raised by same sex.

[Cecilia Ray]

That's not the question. The question is, do you want them in the foster care system more than in.

[Michael Knowles]

I don't think that. I don't think that two men or two women should be able to.

[Adam Mockler]

So foster care system.

[Cecilia Ray]

Foster's better for them.

[Adam Mockler]

So you're slipping through the. Guys, are we going crazy or is he not answering the question right now?

[Michael Knowles]

I guess my answer for the foster care system would be that kids are being raised often in same sex situations in the foster care system. So you can't make a comparison between those two because you're already dealing with one man or five.

[Adam Mockler]

Why did it take like five minutes to make that point at the end?

[Michael Knowles]

Because you're evading the actual point, which is whether children raised in same sex households do better or worse. And the scientific evidence you could not cite. Scientific evidence which you could not cite uniformly says that they.

[Adam Mockler]

Not uniformly, no. You just cited a study from 2010.

[Michael Knowles]

That's how corrected. Yeah, from 2010. There are multiple studies later out of Simon Fraser University.

[Adam Mockler]

There are multiple organizations. When I was doing my research. I can't remember. There are multiple organizations.

[Michael Knowles]

You got to do better research if you can't remember.

[Adam Mockler]

Dude, you got to answer my questions a little better.

[Michael Knowles]

I don't know. I think I just answered your question.

[Cecilia Ray]

So. Yes.

[Adam Mockler]

So a foster care system is what you prefer.

[Michael Knowles]

That's so ridiculous.

[Adam Mockler]

You know, it's.

[Michael Knowles]

You're making a totally inept comparison to avoid the point.

[Cecilia Ray]

But there aren't enough, like, gay couples adopt and so do straight couples. I don't understand why you would rather have them in the foster care.

[Adam Mockler]

It's a very common situation. That happens, Michael. A lot of times people are abandoned and gay couples obviously can't have kids, so what they do is adopt. Now, my question is.

[Michael Knowles]

No, that's not true. What they do generally is purchase children through the IVF industry.

[Adam Mockler]

Adoption rates are way higher. Adoption.

[Cecilia Ray]

Straight couples are also buying kids. When they do well, they shouldn't do that either.

[Michael Knowles]

Do we have any questions over here at the mic? Adam, I think you're completely wrong. About what? How did we get on topic from kids to marriage?

[Adam Mockler]

First off, that was.

[Michael Knowles]

No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. Let me talk.

[Adam Mockler]

Oh, that was his problem.

[Michael Knowles]

No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. Let me talk. All right. There is two genders in this world. You are born with a. Either A.

[Cecilia Ray]

You know, you just went from kids, marriage to gender.

[Michael Knowles]

Okay, but it doesn't make a difference.

[Cecilia Ray]

Well, you just said Keith. That way men belong with women and.

[Michael Knowles]

Women belong with men. That's all I gotta say. Thank you very much.

[Adam Mockler]

Wow, Real sophisticated answer.

[Cecilia Ray]

I know.

[Michael Knowles]

I thought that was real well said. Your prompt did include the kid part though, right? Say it again.

[Adam Mockler]

Your prompt did include the kid part though.

[Cecilia Ray]

Also, you're here with a giant group of men, right?

[Michael Knowles]

Well done. Excellent question. All right, we have to move on topics, okay? So please, I want to buy you a drink at the VIP table. We got Mayflower cigars over there.

[Adam Mockler]

Don't light him inside, please.

[Michael Knowles]

Can you tell me what. What is your name? Joey. That's a good name. Josephina. Josephina works too. I mean, it's only for a day, you know.

[Adam Mockler]

Wait, so you guys are okay with a group of guys breaking gender norms to have a little.

[Michael Knowles]

They're not adopting any kids. Don't worry, they're gonna be no kids tonight.

[Adam Mockler]

Wait, no. But you guys are okay with that? I feel like that usually wouldn't be okay. You guys would call people like that, like, weird, but they're just, like, having fun, right?

[Michael Knowles]

Well, the reality is if you're just playing around and pretending, and we all know it's like a big joke, that's one thing. The crazy thing that happened.

[Adam Mockler]

That's a weird arbitrary line.

[Cecilia Ray]

Yeah.

[Michael Knowles]

No, the crazy thing that happened in our society is we all started to pretend that, like, the farce was reality. And that's when you take it a little bit too far, you know? I don't know.

[Adam Mockler]

Do you think gender dysphoria is not real according to DSM 5, or are you going to all of us?

[Michael Knowles]

Some fellas think they're ladies or they watch too much porn or whatever, but they shouldn't. It's bad for them and they should be tethered to reality. That would be the charitable. And it's the charitable right thing to do, because charity is clarity would be my view. Okay, ladies first. What's your top topic?

[Cecilia Ray]

Okay, my next topic is the incel male loneliness epidemic is self imposed.

[Michael Knowles]

That was the incel crowd, Adam.

[Adam Mockler]

My last one is Trump has personally profited more off of this presidency than any other president in history. He has doubled his net worth.

[Michael Knowles]

They're applauding the profit.

[Adam Mockler]

I.

[Audience Member]

They're.

[Michael Knowles]

They're not applauding.

[Adam Mockler]

Yeah, because you guys are hypocrites who have no spine.

[Michael Knowles]

I don't mind profit. Profits are great.

[Adam Mockler]

He's double his net worth, my dude. He was like, dude at the mic was just saying that Americans should be paid living wages, yet the president is doubling his net worth.

[Michael Knowles]

And you're like, yeah, during. During the presidency. No, I was in the internecine period. Now, okay, my. My last topic. 28% of zoomers should be alive today, but their mothers killed them. Kind of a doer topic. Yeah. Okay. All right. No one wants to talk about that, but it's true. Isn't that crazy? Okay, what do you. I don't know, Mr. Davies. I actually couldn't tell between those two. I was actually a clear winner on the decimator. The decimator popped when all cells came out in four. There's incels. Yeah, hold on one second. Go to balanceofnature.com use promo code knowles. Life gets busy. Do you remember to reorder your supplements every month? Is that top of your list? It's just one more thing on your already packed to do list. That is why you need to become a balance of nature preferred customer. And here is why. It's a game changer. Your supplements show up like clockwork every 28 days right to your doorstep. Or if you're like me, they show.

[Adam Mockler]

Up to your office.

[Michael Knowles]

And you think that that's. That's nice because then you get it direct. Except that the hyenas around the daily wire are going to try to steal your balance of nature. So you got to go to the desk and get it really quickly.

[Adam Mockler]

Got to get it first.

[Michael Knowles]

You don't need to remember to reorder. No running out just happens automatically. No hunting for deals, no promo codes, no stress. Plus, shipping is totally free every month. Now. You know what really sold me? You get your own personal health coach. Someone who checks in, cheers you on, and helps you stay on track with your goals. They look at the whole picture. Body, mind and spirit. Easiest routines are the ones you don't have to think about. When it's automatic, it's consistent. When it's consistent, it sticks. You handle life. Balance of nature handles the rest. Right now you can become a preferred customer and lock in wholesale pricing with free shipping every month. Go to balanceofnature.com use promo code knowles for 35% off your first order as a preferred customer. Plus get a free bottle of fiber and spice. That's balance of nature.com promo code nobles. Cecy, what's your argument?

[Cecilia Ray]

All right, so the male loneliness epidemic. Let me tell you, this whole incel movement, it's disturbing. I think that a lot of guys, you know, feel alone or they're angry. And then this whole Red pill podcast came through to tell them where to put their anger. Blame women, and we can't get laid. But in reality, I think you should be blaming more, like the dating apps, this and that, because we're not out in the wild. We're at a bar right now with, like, 70 people. You can find a match here instead of online, where you have 7,000 and everyone's just playing the game. I just don't feel like there's enough contact. I mean, as time goes on, according to the cdc, we're having less sexy. You're having less sex. As time goes on. Like, we. I think incels need to get a gay friend and a girlfriend to glow you up and show you the way. There's somebody. There is somebody for everybody. Have you ever seen the show My Strange Addiction? They're all married, so if you're an incel in the room, you will find yours. Trust.

[Michael Knowles]

So hold on. I want to. I want to see if I can narrow. I thought you were going to go after the incels, but that was, like a pep talk. That was very inspiring.

[Cecilia Ray]

But that's the thing, like, for the incel movement. Like, I don't want to. To tear you down. Like, I want you to be built up so that you're good men for us women.

[Michael Knowles]

Wow. Okay.

[Cecilia Ray]

I want to help you get laid. Not me. Like, are you pro incel, but other women? I could help you with your style. I can totally help you.

[Michael Knowles]

Wow.

[Cecilia Ray]

That's it.

[Michael Knowles]

If the bachelor party get any more excited, I think they would be out of the room. Okay. Yes.

[Adam Mockler]

Can I just give a bit of a boring answer? As a young dude who's grown up in this culture, I'm not an insult, but I just mean I've grown up and I've seen this.

[Michael Knowles]

Are you a vol cell? An incel is an involuntary celibate, and a vol cell, I've learned, is a voluntary.

[Adam Mockler]

What's the name for. What's the name for a normal person?

[Michael Knowles]

That's out the window. Okay.

[Adam Mockler]

I think that a lot of this was exacerbated by social media. And then when the COVID pandemic hit, a lot of people put up bubbles around themselves. The COVID pandemic kind of feels like a lot of people were isolating, and I had to intentionally tear down that bubble and make sure I'm socializing after. So I think we see the downstream effects of social media and Covid kind of up the brains of young men en masse. And a Lot of this stuff happens online, but just from what I've seen firsthand, it's a lot of social stuff that has been caused by the environment we've grown up in.

[Michael Knowles]

But wow, you know, I can't believe it's kind of weird. But I. I agree, actually, if you look as. Wasn't that odd that we agree on something? I. Because I was looking. It's the male. Global Male loneliness index, or whatever it is, says that Covid was the spike in 30% of male loneliness. The numbers are awful. 80% of suicides are men. Men report, you know, having been extremely lonely the day before at a much higher rate than women. So they're really in a bad spot. And my only thought on it is, well, actually, Adam, it's to your point, which is instead of like the incel, it's like, are you an incel. Trad, hip, cool, neo, whatever? If you're just normal, if you just be normal and you live a normal life and you do normal things, which weirdly includes a bunch of dudes, like every so often wearing weird wigs and going out to a bar. That is normal. I go to a bachelor party, is a normal thing. I'm going to one tomorrow, actually. You know, if you just do that behavior, you're here. It worked for your parents, it worked for your grandparents.

[Cecilia Ray]

Exactly. You guys can get out into the wild, man.

[Michael Knowles]

Do we have a question?

[Adam Mockler]

I got a question.

[Michael Knowles]

I'll clarify. Not an incel. Got a girlfriend? Volcel. Practicing Catholic, you know, for now. But I think there is an issue. There is an issue. And the issue I'm finding is that my friends at least don't want to meet a girlfriend or wife at a bar necessarily. They want to meet her in church or a church event or something like that. In my generation, for the first time in history, there are more men attending church regularly than women. So I'm wondering, I don't want this trend to kind of keep going in opposite directions where you end up with all these church going stand up. You know, men without options for.

[Cecilia Ray]

Well, I mean, when they're at church, I mean, are they flirting? Are they doing the appropriate things?

[Michael Knowles]

The women aren't.

[Adam Mockler]

What's your prescription, Michael? What's your prescription?

[Michael Knowles]

The women aren't there anymore. That's the problem.

[Cecilia Ray]

Well, that's because a lot of religion holds women back, so we don't want to be there.

[Michael Knowles]

Oh, yeah, women. Religion's what's holding women back. Religion's the problem. Religion saving women. Religion saving women from the idols everywhere. Right? Now, maybe not yet. It's never too late, you know, my girl.

[Cecilia Ray]

Actually, let me say this. My grandmother is a Christian pastor. Like I grew up in the church.

[Michael Knowles]

Oh, that's not real either. They don't. That's the idol right there.

[Adam Mockler]

Come on.

[Cecilia Ray]

Yes. She's a Methodist Christian, Cuban pastor.

[Michael Knowles]

The reason they're. The reason they're booing. It's very nice that your grandma's Christian. That's a good thing. But it's because they. Women can. The idea is that she was the.

[Cecilia Ray]

First one in her church to be a pastor. This is true. I'm not lying.

[Michael Knowles]

In deference to your grandmother, I won't make the broader theological point.

[Cecilia Ray]

Don't do that.

[Michael Knowles]

But you go to a Catholic mass, I take it, is that right? Yes, that's right. So there. We don't have priestesses in the Catholic mass. No, but you make a great point, which is that in the new atheism, men led the way out of religion. Men led the way to atheism. And then now that everyone realizes atheism is dumb and totally, you know, indefensible, now it's the men leading the way back. But you have this problem, especially if you go to the traditional masses, where if you want a date, you know, the odds are good, but the goods are odd. I mean, these are real particular people and it's a lot of guys. So in that case, I would just say you have to do what is incumbent upon a man. And you gotta lead and you have to kind of lead by example. And maybe that means that tonight when you're leaving this wonderful bar, you know, you see a girl who's relatively wholesome. Well, you're. You're volsal at dating, but some of your friends, you see a girl who's relatively wholesome for Lower Broadway in Nashville, and you invite her to the traditional Latin mass tomorrow.

[Cecilia Ray]

I think you guys just need to shoot your shot when you want to. It's a numbers game at the end of the day, so, I mean, no, legit, it is. All right, It's a numbers game. So shoot, do your shot. See something, say something. When I see someone's cute, I say it. I ask guys out all the time.

[Michael Knowles]

Yeah, hold on.

[Audience Member]

Okay, listen, I understand what you're saying, that it's self inflicted, because I think if a man sees a problem, he shouldn't blame anybody else for it. He should do whatever he has to do to fix the problem. But what do you think? What do you think, what do you think about the fact that an estimated 1.4 million women in America are on Only Fans and most of them aren't making any money from it. So if you're. Well, but if you're in college, if you're in college and you're trying to meet the person you're gonna be with the rest of your life, what are you supposed to do?

[Michael Knowles]

When.

[Audience Member]

When like 25% of the chicks around there are showing their tits online for.

[Cecilia Ray]

Free market, well, then that's not okay. So then, well, since they're out there and you know they're on Only Fans and that you already can write them off as the chick you don't want. So I guess they're exposing themselves so that, you know, that's not.

[Audience Member]

I'm saying it's like harder to catch a fish when you dump toxic waste in the pond is all I'm saying.

[Michael Knowles]

You know, hold on. His, his other problem with it, your problem with it, right. When you said the question was not that they're on OnlyFans, but that they're not making any money from it.

[Audience Member]

That's the big. There's an argument if she's making a million dollars.

[Cecilia Ray]

I mean, if they're doing it for no money, that's just stupid. But also, there can't be a seller without a buyer. So maybe if a lot of you.

[Adam Mockler]

Lonely land.

[Audience Member]

I think it's gross.

[Adam Mockler]

The reason why it, the reason why OnlyFans is popular is because a lot of lonely young men.

[Cecilia Ray]

There can't be a seller without a buyer.

[Audience Member]

But if there's nothing to buy, you can't buy it.

[Michael Knowles]

If there's nothing to buy, you can't buy.

[Adam Mockler]

I thought we liked free market capitalism in here. I thought if there was no man.

[Michael Knowles]

Not unrestrained by a moral order.

[Adam Mockler]

If there is demand. Wait, so you're okay?

[Michael Knowles]

I don't worship Mammon.

[Adam Mockler]

Are you okay with the government stepping in if there's a more immortal, sure. So is the government in your eyes? Sorry, I don't really know much about your ideology. Is the government in your eyes the ultimate arbiter of what's moral and what's not?

[Michael Knowles]

No. There's an objective moral order that we can intuit because we're creatures of reason.

[Adam Mockler]

Only fans is objectively bad in your eyes.

[Michael Knowles]

Yeah, for sure.

[Adam Mockler]

Not in my eyes. So it's not objective?

[Michael Knowles]

No. Just because you're wrong about something doesn't mean it's not.

[Adam Mockler]

That's convenient. That's convenient for you.

[Michael Knowles]

No, no, listen. Two plus two equals four. You talk to a three year old kid he might think two plus two equals five. That doesn't mean that we just throw our hands in the air and come.

[Adam Mockler]

To there's a creator economy and only fans with not only millions or 1.4 million girls participating, but even more millions of men. So all of these people in your eyes are just complete moral degenerates who are wrong?

[Michael Knowles]

Yeah, basically. But then we all sin.

[Adam Mockler]

What's your governmental prescription to stop that from happening? What's your prescription? Does the government step in and regulate only fans? Stop men from buying that.

[Michael Knowles]

That's okay.

[Adam Mockler]

Wait, that's not small government. That's more government. So you want more government to step in?

[Michael Knowles]

Yeah, I want. I want a proper limited government that pursues the common good. No, I'm not a libertarian, but I'm a conservative.

[Cecilia Ray]

But I want to ask the audience a quick question. Do you. Okay, for the guys in here, clap if you would want to see only fans completely go away. Okay.

[Michael Knowles]

Yes.

[Cecilia Ray]

Okay, wait.

[Michael Knowles]

Now hold on, Adam. You're not clapping.

[Cecilia Ray]

Now clap if you don't care. Want it to go away. I mean, I don't get it. You don't have to watch it.

[Michael Knowles]

Hold on. I want, I don't want to embarrass you, Adam, but notice here, she said, do you want to see this like disgusting pornography site? Go away and clap if you want to do it. And you didn't clap. That makes you look like a weirdo. You should have clapped. You should have clapped like a weirdo.

[Adam Mockler]

Can I just explain?

[Michael Knowles]

Yes.

[Adam Mockler]

I'm just rather agnostic. I think if there's supply and demand, I think there's women being exploited, selling.

[Michael Knowles]

Their bodies for sex, they're going to be washed out of it. They're going to have trouble getting jobs. No man's going to want them, like personal decision though.

[Adam Mockler]

That's their personal word.

[Cecilia Ray]

So are you their boss or their dad? Like.

[Michael Knowles]

No, I'm a citizen in a self governing republic that makes laws to go to their common good.

[Cecilia Ray]

You have to go to their page to see it.

[Adam Mockler]

You know what my question is?

[Michael Knowles]

Yeah.

[Adam Mockler]

If you want the government to be able to step in and regulate something like only fans, which it currently does.

[Michael Knowles]

On the books, by the way.

[Adam Mockler]

Can I just point out the problem? When the government is arbiting what's more moral like that, then what happens when the next administration comes in and they say, any dude with a mic who is spewing stuff like Michael Knowles is. I think that that's immoral. I think that that is objectively immoral. And I want to regulate dudes with microphones.

[Michael Knowles]

That is a slippery slope. You have just described how government works. Yes, that's true. There is a.

[Adam Mockler]

No, no, no. I am describing what happens when one government overreaches and tries to impose their morals. Slippery slope. Wait, so if you're saying this is how government works, why doesn't the Trump administration regulate and ban OnlyFans like everyone in this room wants? Because they are not going to do that.

[Michael Knowles]

Well, because the Supreme Court weakened the obscenity laws which have been on the book since the founding of the country, and they did that in the middle of the 20th century, which was terrible.

[Adam Mockler]

Not how administrations work, because the Supreme Court is not allowing the administration to do it.

[Michael Knowles]

No, but George W. Bush prosecuted a pornographer for obscenity in 2008.

[Adam Mockler]

One pornographer is different than banning an.

[Michael Knowles]

Industry at the federal level.

[Adam Mockler]

You want the government to ban an industry? When is it? When's the last time the government's banned an industry that has demand?

[Michael Knowles]

So what was the answer out there? Someone prostitute? Well, it depends.

[Adam Mockler]

In certain places, when's the last time they have banned federally some sort of demand market narcotics? Narcotics.

[Michael Knowles]

Not. Well, I guess marijuana for that matter. At the federal level, not at the state level.

[Adam Mockler]

I guess that works, but I just don't think that's comparable to only fans.

[Michael Knowles]

Adam, wouldn't you say. Adam, wouldn't you say that all laws to some degree have recourse to morality? Because we say this is good and this is bad and we need to be good to the asylum seekers and we need to be good to the trans children or whatever. You're always making recourse to moral arguments. You just don't like it when we do it.

[Cecilia Ray]

The thing about you, though, is that all your positions are personal decisions and morals for you that you want to impose on me.

[Michael Knowles]

No. Well, I think. I think actually that statement that you just made, that's your personal opinion about how government should work. But I don't want you to impose that personal opinion about what I can do with my government on me.

[Cecilia Ray]

And I don't want you to decide, oh, all these women and men can't do only fans.

[Michael Knowles]

Well, I don't want you to decide that. I can't decide that. All those women and men can do only fans.

[Cecilia Ray]

You can have that opinion, but you can't actually.

[Michael Knowles]

And you can have that opinion, too, but you can't make me listen to you when you say that I can't make the government ban, only ban, do that.

[Cecilia Ray]

The difference between you and I is I don't want to put anything into legislation that stops.

[Michael Knowles]

And the difference between you and I is I don't want women to be trafficked for pornography.

[Cecilia Ray]

Who is being trafficked when they decide to do it themselves?

[Michael Knowles]

You have to the page. Do the. Do the prostitutes on the street decide for themselves?

[Cecilia Ray]

I mean, depending on the chick, right? I don't know. I'm not on the street. Maybe.

[Michael Knowles]

Yeah, maybe. Let's talk to their pimps. Let's see if they decide for themselves. I don't know. I agree. You agree? I agree that the prostitutes decide for themselves or. Okay, all right. All done. The bachelor party took a bad turn. Okay, listen, who was the vip? Who was the vip? I would say me. Thank you. That's very. I appreciate that. No, I would say. Gotta be Mr. Catholic Volsel. Right?

[Adam Mockler]

I think Volsal gets it.

[Cecilia Ray]

Yeah. Volsal gets it.

[Michael Knowles]

Yeah. Volsal gets a cigar.

[Cecilia Ray]

Yeah.

[Michael Knowles]

Congratulations.

[Adam Mockler]

Congratulations, Mr. Volsel.

[Michael Knowles]

Okay, I feel. I feel terrible because you got your topic in. I got two of my topics in. Mr. Adam flew out here all the way from Chicago. Chicago.

[Adam Mockler]

I was in New York last night.

[Michael Knowles]

I got you out of Chicago and New York. Maybe you should thank me for that opportunity.

[Adam Mockler]

Chicago's a nice city. Come on. It's nice.

[Cecilia Ray]

Chicago is a great city.

[Michael Knowles]

Chicago, well, it is MAGA country, so that's my favorite.

[Adam Mockler]

You guys are being uncharitable when you say Chicago is not a nice city. It is a nice, affordable city. Like, it's what?

[Michael Knowles]

I don't know. Any city where I could walk around in the middle of the night and Nigerian white supremacist MAGA supporters can take my Subway sandwich away. That is not a good city. That's a terrible city. I want to debate at least one of your topics. I don't want you going home without us talking about.

[Adam Mockler]

Well, do it. Do you want to choose or should they choose?

[Michael Knowles]

I want them to choose.

[Adam Mockler]

Say they want tariffs. They want tariffs.

[Michael Knowles]

Let's do tariffs.

[Adam Mockler]

Let's do terrorists.

[Michael Knowles]

There we go. We're doing tariffs. What's your point?

[Adam Mockler]

I can start off with a lot of points, but I guess I just want to start off with a question. Is that fair?

[Michael Knowles]

Yes.

[Adam Mockler]

When do you think Liberation Day tariffs went into effect?

[Michael Knowles]

Well, it was a process, and they're still going into effect now, but. But they began in April of this year.

[Adam Mockler]

The announcement happened in April of this year. But Trump does this weird thing where he makes tariff announcements, but he doesn't actually enact them for, like, two weeks to 90 days. And I think we can all agree with this fundamental idea, but that Trump's tariffs have been confusing. Trump's tariffs have been pushed back over and over, but the reality is the Liberation Day tariffs, the most radical tariffs that he announced, didn't go into effect till August 7th because he put in a 90 day delay. August 7th was 14 days ago. So you guys are going to rest your whole claim on the fact that tariffs haven't caused inflation, but the tariffs just went into effect. But I also want to point out the fact that Trump's tariffs have no rhyme or reason. If you want to. If you want to argue that we have trade imbalances in America, I wouldn't disagree. But that is not what Trump was remedying. How is remedying trade imbalances putting tariffs indiscriminately on every single country? Do you know what country has the highest tariffs right now?

[Michael Knowles]

Is it like Mauritius or something crazy?

[Adam Mockler]

Brazil, but not even to rebalance trade because a Bolsonaro was being targeted. So what I'm making my point here is that Trump's tariffs have not been too intentionally or targeted help the economy. What they have been doing is a lever for him to, you know, help Bolsonaro to use corruption. A lever that has not helped the American people. Tariffs are inherently inflationary, which you'll agree. Tariffs are inflationary.

[Michael Knowles]

Not necessarily. Well, they can be, but they're not necessarily right.

[Cecilia Ray]

It goes down to the consumer.

[Adam Mockler]

They largely are inflationary because at Customs and Border Patrol, that is when it's collected by American companies. So I just want to wrap this up. I think that Trump's tariff policy has been an unmitigated disaster. It has been awful. And how has.

[Michael Knowles]

So I agree with your points that it's confusing. I think that was intentional. I agree with your points that some of the measures for implementing them seem arbitrary. I also think that was intentional and effective. But I guess my question is, let's really hit. Let's get specific here. You say they've been a disaster. By what economic measures have they been?

[Adam Mockler]

There's a few. PPI just came out and showed that vegetables are up by 38% over the past.

[Michael Knowles]

Why do you think PPI went up?

[Adam Mockler]

Why do you think PPI went UP? There's a few reasons it could be. PPI is weather. PPI is the producer price index, which is how producers are counting what things cost and what they're selling to people. But overall, why did it go up? Vegetables went up 38%. A combination of weather and tariffs.

[Michael Knowles]

Weather and tariffs. Is there maybe a third Possibility that's correlated with PPI going up. The fact that we just hit the highest stock market ever recorded in the month of August, which is correlated with higher ppi.

[Adam Mockler]

You want to know why we have the highest stock market?

[Michael Knowles]

I don't even. I don't even care why we did. I'm just pointing out. That's why people.

[Adam Mockler]

No, no. You can claim the highest stock market is impressive, but you know what's impressive to me? Trump took office and crashed the stock market on Liberation Day and it didn't recover until he reversed the tariffs. So the only reason the market didn't reverse the tariffs.

[Michael Knowles]

You just said the tariffs are being implemented right now. He put a Capricorn.

[Adam Mockler]

Let me finish. He put a 90 day pause, which confused people to such an extent that nobody believes him. The stock market is hitting all time highs at seven months into his presidency, which is not impressive.

[Michael Knowles]

It was. The tariffs are being implemented as you.

[Adam Mockler]

Just did because nobod believes them anymore. Not a single person believes that Donald Trump is imposing tariffs. That they will start. You didn't even know when they started. The guy who is saying I didn't.

[Michael Knowles]

I told you. They're being implemented successively and they began in April. I gave you the. The precise answer is.

[Adam Mockler]

Did you say August 7th?

[Michael Knowles]

I know, but you did not say began to be implemented with. You agree with April.

[Adam Mockler]

You agree with my fundamental axiom that tariffs have been confusing. Intentionally yielded any results?

[Michael Knowles]

Yes. What? Okay, well, here are the results. Because there are three things that tariffs can do. Tariffs can raise revenue, Tariffs can get you better trade deals, and tariffs can boost manufacturing.

[Adam Mockler]

All of those things are contradictory.

[Michael Knowles]

Yeah, exactly. So this is so amazing because you make such a great point, Adam. If you get the better trade deals, usually you don't get the revenue. You don't get the manufacturing. If you get the manufacturing, usually you don't get the trade. Rather you don't get the revenue because it's not coming in right now. What's so strange about Trump's tariffs is that we have raised a lot of revenue, $100 billion since April.

[Adam Mockler]

Wait, why is the deficit still increasing at a massive rate?

[Michael Knowles]

What the hell? The budget deficit? Yeah. Well, because. Because we're only, as you pointed out, like two months into the tariffs.

[Adam Mockler]

No, Trump claims that he's raised 3 trillion or something.

[Michael Knowles]

Don't distract. Don't distract. Okay, go for it. $100 billion in tariffs. That is more than twice. That's two and a half times the historic average. So we are raising revenue at a huge cliff then Manufacturing activity. Manufacturing activity is at a three year high. No, it's not. No, it is not a three year high.

[Adam Mockler]

By this point in Biden's presidency, we had added 200,000 manufacturing jobs. We've lost 28,000 since Trump took office.

[Michael Knowles]

Manufacturing activity today, August 2020, is that. It is. I mean, I don't know.

[Adam Mockler]

Look it up.

[Michael Knowles]

In the.

[Adam Mockler]

Look it up. Manufacturing has dropped.

[Michael Knowles]

It's at a three year high. So that means that it's signaling you're getting further growth. But the craziest thing is the trade deals have been insane. We just closed a deal with the European Union. We tariff their goods. They basically don't tariff our goods. And they're investing $600 billion in the country. So Trump managed to get all three objectives of tariffs simultaneously. And the economy is at an all time high and employment is full. There is no economic indicator that has gone down under Trump. It's all at highs.

[Cecilia Ray]

But I noticed that all the time the market is brought up when in reality the average American, sometimes the stock market isn't what, what affects them? Like not everyone's playing into the market. The average American.

[Adam Mockler]

Can I ask you a question?

[Cecilia Ray]

I mean, the average American is not.

[Michael Knowles]

Most Americans have retirement accounts and, and pensions and that sort of thing. But in that way they.

[Adam Mockler]

I want to be fair and reply to your EU point in just one second. But I want to ask you the question. When you cite this $100 billion raised, who is that raised from exactly?

[Michael Knowles]

It's raised from the countries that were tariffing.

[Adam Mockler]

That is not true. So when you're saying goods are coming over the border, customs and border protections is taxing the other country. Yes, that is not how it works.

[Michael Knowles]

But only cigar manufacturer who makes my product in Nicaragua, I know a lot about tariffs and how they work. And unfortunately for my industry, there's an 18% tariff in Nicaragua. But it's okay. I mean, listen, I'm willing to eat it because we have a very successful.

[Adam Mockler]

You just said Nicaragua was eating the cost. Are you implied that other countries were eating the cost when it had cbb? Oh, you're eating the cost.

[Michael Knowles]

No. Are you. Are you asking me if a manufacturer in another country has to. Has to bear that cost? Yes, of course. But I'm saying it's a manufacturer in the other country, which in the case of premium cigars is outside the United States.

[Adam Mockler]

But you're eating the cost.

[Michael Knowles]

Yeah, unfortunately.

[Cecilia Ray]

But not everyone's gonna eat that cost. A lot of it is gonna go down to the consumer.

[Michael Knowles]

I know that's why you gotta go to good companies like Mayflower. This is the last chance. This is your last chance to win a free drink and a cigar. So you need to get to that microphone. We have someone up already.

[Adam Mockler]

I would say the economic impact of the tariffs were, was priced in I would say even before Liberation Day. Yeah, Americans know what they're getting into as far as this. This is what they voted for, not all. That's also why as Michael stated, we are at all time highs for S and P and people. Inflation is back to 2 to 3% if I, if I'm not mistaken and people have more money back to their paychecks. The other thing is the terrorists had nothing to do with the amount of renovation of revenue that we're, we were bringing in. It was more about the accountability for other countries.

[Michael Knowles]

That's a nice distinction.

[Adam Mockler]

Wait, can I ask.

[Cecilia Ray]

So you voted to have prices raised? I'm confused. Oh, we knew what we were getting into. So you voted to have prices raised?

[Adam Mockler]

We voted for a president that wasn't going to fall asleep at the table with other.

[Cecilia Ray]

Oh, he's asleep.

[Michael Knowles]

Yeah.

[Adam Mockler]

He's just taking 400 million dollar jets, doubling his net worth based off of crypto and deporting people with process whatsoever. And I would give you that. I 100% agree with that. Can I ask you a question very, very quickly? You can claim that Donald Trump, it seems like you were trying to make the argument that he was rebalancing some of these deficits by holding countries accountable. I would say it's, it's not about, it's not about accounting for deficits. It's about accountability and how we look on the main stage. It has nothing to do with the.

[Michael Knowles]

Trade deficit thing in my humble opinion. The reason that he picked that is because it's so crazy.

[Adam Mockler]

But you realize guys, we look batshit insane when we're tariffing Switzerland, who we had free trade with. We had free trade with Switzerland and we're tariffing them, we're tariffing Brazil, we're tariffing islands with nobody that lives there, but not Russia. So the point is every time someone.

[Michael Knowles]

Major sanctions on Russia. You know, we don't have trade much trade at all with Russia.

[Adam Mockler]

We can at least play tariffs. Yeah, but the point that I'm trying to make is Donald Trump claims that he is intentionally and targeted or people claim that he is trying to hold countries accountable in a targeted way. That's not what's happening. It is broad sweeping tariffs that make no sense that you admitted were confusing and now you guys have to reverse engineer some sort of weird cognitive.

[Michael Knowles]

No, because look, look, you make this point about Europe, you're making the point about Switzerland, but let's talk about the European Union. You would say, well, this is crazy. These allies of ours, why are we smacking them with these insane tariffs and why this doesn't make sense. We need to just put even more sanctions on Russia or whatever. But notice now we have a great trade deal with the European Union. We're dealing with like a 15% tariff. We got 600 billion bucks from them to invest in our country. So obviously it was just a way to negotiate. And it also happens to raise revenue and boost manufacturing. But those are, those are, those are ancillary things.

[Adam Mockler]

Okay, if you're negotiating to reshore manufacturing, then you can't be raising revenue off of tariffs because nobody's going to be importing.

[Michael Knowles]

Yeah, that's what you think. It actually takes a very delicate balance to be able to serve all three interests.

[Adam Mockler]

But he's done 40 chess right now with other countries.

[Michael Knowles]

No, just the numbers don't lie. Okay, next question. For years the US has been screwed over by China, Europe, South America. This isn't just about short term. We need to be looking at long term. We need to be looking at 5 years, 10 years, 20 years since NAFTA. We have been screwed up.

[Adam Mockler]

USA, you make a great point.

[Michael Knowles]

You make a great point.

[Audience Member]

Stop looking at the last 2, 3, 4, 5 months.

[Michael Knowles]

We need to be looking at 5 years, 10 years, 20 years from now.

[Audience Member]

These tariffs are setting a message that the US will not be screwed over.

[Michael Knowles]

Let me ask you a question.

[Adam Mockler]

We need to rebalance trade and stop China from ripping us off.

[Michael Knowles]

And Donald Trump is here to stand up for us.

[Adam Mockler]

Let me ask you, what deal has he cut with China?

[Michael Knowles]

We are done.

[Adam Mockler]

What deal has he cut with China?

[Michael Knowles]

We don't necessarily about right now.

[Adam Mockler]

What deal does he come with China?

[Michael Knowles]

Setting the future.

[Audience Member]

This is about setting us up for 10 years.

[Adam Mockler]

No answer. What deal is he cope with China?

[Michael Knowles]

I'll give you an answer on it because you're saying, well, we need to balance trade.

[Adam Mockler]

But that's my question is what deal has he set with China? Because you are saying that he set a deal with China. He has set two 90 day delays. You can't answer what a deal is. He can't answer what a deal is.

[Michael Knowles]

Nobody can answer. I'm trying to answer it to you. Even on the delays, which are obviously strategic, the point of setting the trade equilibrium as being the metric is because it's so crazy and kind of impossible in certain cases, obviously. What's he going after in China? China's trade issues with us for 25 years have been illegally subsidizing steel, manipulating their currency, stealing our ip. All of these things right now. All of the previous presidents since we stupidly let China into the World Trade Organization, all of them went at that directly. They got no results whatsoever. Trump comes in like a bull in a China shop, pun intended. And he does in the first term and he does in the second term and he says no, I'm going to pick this totally random metric, namely the trade deficits and I'm going to start punching people around until we get better deals on all all.

[Adam Mockler]

Michael, I'm going to ask my question one more time. What deal did he get with China?

[Michael Knowles]

What, what, what, what specifically are you asking me?

[Adam Mockler]

What deal did. This person just came up to the mic and said Trump took office and is going to hold China accountable. All Trump has done is pussy footed and delayed 90 times and you're sitting here stuttering because you can. Okay, then answer the deal. What deal is he caught with China? No, no, shut up. What deal is he called with China?

[Michael Knowles]

No, he is here, but I think.

[Adam Mockler]

No, listen, answer right now.

[Michael Knowles]

Adam, we've been addressing your point because you're saying he didn't get a deal quickly enough. He didn't get a deal in 30 days.

[Adam Mockler]

There's no deal. What's his framework?

[Michael Knowles]

But I. Right, but you're saying I don't like you're looking at this term. This is a long term. If your point is Adam. Well, Trump hasn't gotten this trade deal done within 30 or 60 or 90 days. I think where's Joe Biden's been 200 days? Where's Barack Obama's great Joe Biden put any of the, any of the underlying problems with China.

[Adam Mockler]

Listen, Joe Biden put targeted tariffs on China. He didn't put tariffs on the world like a retard. I'm sorry, he's not a retard.

[Michael Knowles]

Donald Trump, very ableist. Stop talking. I don't like that ableist language.

[Adam Mockler]

Wokeness is dead, Michael.

[Michael Knowles]

That's true.

[Cecilia Ray]

Okay, Trump is a retard. I am totally here. I'm so here for doing more American manufacturing, more exporting. I totally agree with that. But you guys know that Trump has all his made in China, right? Okay, I just want to point out the hypocrisy.

[Michael Knowles]

That's a calumny. He makes his stuff in America. He actually does. Okay, he does. I Have the hat. I got the hat in 2016. It's made in America. It is. It is. It's great. There are a lot of knockoffs, though. That's. That's another way. China's stealing our ip. They're stealing our MAGA hat.

[Adam Mockler]

Can I point something out very quickly?

[Michael Knowles]

Yeah.

[Adam Mockler]

I got to have one topic tonight and it was tariffs. I think I just ran around the room on tariffs because you couldn't name a deal. You couldn't name a deal.

[Michael Knowles]

What are you talking about?

[Adam Mockler]

And nobody could name anything that Trump has accomplished.

[Michael Knowles]

Hold on, hold on. Adam, Adam, I. You brought up tariffs and I was happy to talk about it. You said it was a disaster for the American people.

[Adam Mockler]

You said it was confusing.

[Michael Knowles]

I asked you to cite a specific economic measure by which it was a disaster. You couldn't. I cited every economic measure. That.

[Adam Mockler]

Which is an old time.

[Michael Knowles]

I asked you to. Already. I got you.

[Adam Mockler]

GDP contracted in the first quarter. PPI is going up. Electricity has gone up 10% and electricity has gone up. That's the best.

[Michael Knowles]

You can.

[Adam Mockler]

Not come into place yet. The tariffs have not even really started.

[Michael Knowles]

The tariffs have destroyed our economy, but they also haven't come into place yet.

[Adam Mockler]

When did I say the insurrection disaster? Michael.

[Michael Knowles]

Okay, okay. So the tariffs, which don't exist, have been terrible. Now, who is the VIP of that round? I say the USA guy, right? Where is he? Alright, here we go. Here we go now. VIP table, you blessed few. I have a question. Molly, you can relay this. Did we solve the world's problems? If not. If not, we didn't. If not, is there something you would like us to hash out in our final remaining moments before the music comes back on? So, okay.

[Audience Member]

Okay, Mr. Panel, you keep saying that Michael couldn't name a deal. He couldn't name a deal.

[Adam Mockler]

Are you going to name a China deal?

[Michael Knowles]

Name it.

[Audience Member]

No, I'm not going to try.

[Michael Knowles]

The trick is there's no deal yet. That's a big trick.

[Audience Member]

First of all, okay, deals take time. And in order to strike a deal, you need. China's not going to do it because they're nice.

[Michael Knowles]

Okay.

[Audience Member]

You need to put pressure on them. You need them to bleed for a long. Let me finish. For a long period of time.

[Michael Knowles]

Okay.

[Audience Member]

And so my understanding is Trump's putting a tariff so they bleed for a long period of time and then they come to the table and there's a negotiation. What else should he do? What can we add?

[Adam Mockler]

President Mockler, what should Donald Trump add to the tariffs? Maybe some clarity to the tariffs. When it comes to China, he has not gotten a single deal. And I guess there's restating the question.

[Michael Knowles]

What specifically what, what would you make clear if you're going to add clarity? Okay.

[Adam Mockler]

What Donald Trump does is he sets these arbitrary deadlines and pushes them back. When Donald Trump set that first 90, you're invading the question.

[Michael Knowles]

You're totally evading the clarity with deadlines.

[Adam Mockler]

I'm asking you right now, clarity with deadlines.

[Michael Knowles]

Deadlines.

[Adam Mockler]

He said a 90 day deadline with China. What did he do that? A 90 day deadline. Wait, let me listen. What did, what do you do to the 90 day deadline?

[Michael Knowles]

TRUMP has pushed deadlines. Now answer the question.

[Adam Mockler]

Maybe not push deadlines and hold people accountable. He's pushed anything else back and back and back.

[Michael Knowles]

Okay, don't put deadlines. Anything else. Else.

[Adam Mockler]

You can tariff the countries that China trades with to put pressure on them. There are so many ways to place pressure on China. What Donald Trump is doing is around. He's not even a single deal, but.

[Michael Knowles]

He is tariffing countries to China trade.

[Adam Mockler]

So you bleed China by tariffing. But he's already doing, tariffing the countries surrounding them.

[Michael Knowles]

He's already, he's already doing that. He's going to tear up the whole world.

[Adam Mockler]

He's theraping Brazil more, but he's tariffing.

[Michael Knowles]

He's tariffing.

[Cecilia Ray]

Like literally every country doing is destroying that.

[Michael Knowles]

So he's already doing that. Is there anything that Trump is not doing because you're so upset about his China policy? Is there anything he's not doing that you would do other than do it faster or whatever?

[Adam Mockler]

Wait, can I ask you a quick question right here?

[Michael Knowles]

Sure.

[Adam Mockler]

You said that it takes time to do trade deals. Wasn't Trump's entire motto 90 deals in 90 days?

[Audience Member]

I mean, that's what he said.

[Michael Knowles]

Why? Okay, wait.

[Adam Mockler]

Then he also end the Ukraine war on day one. Can I ask you guys in the crowd in 90 days? No. Did he end the war?

[Michael Knowles]

No.

[Adam Mockler]

This dude is a weak. Who else does not know what to do?

[Audience Member]

Who else is trying to defend America?

[Adam Mockler]

Who else is trying to tariff every country like a retard? Donald Trump.

[Michael Knowles]

You just advocated tariffing all those countries who advocated doing that to save America, like Donald Trump.

[Audience Member]

Who else is waking up to save America?

[Cecilia Ray]

No, let me say something. Crying like, no, let me say something. When you want to make a deal with someone, you need to schmooze. You need to do this and that. You don't bully people and strongman them.

[Audience Member]

You need an all made up.

[Michael Knowles]

Adam. Adam's point Adam's complaining that Trump is schmoozing and being too diplomatic and he's saying he's got to bully him.

[Adam Mockler]

Morgan saying that he's perpetually pushing back deadlines and he looks like a. You guys, a 90 day deadline.

[Michael Knowles]

Okay, listen, you're agreeing with us and with the vip.

[Adam Mockler]

Can I, can I ask you a question? Do you remember when Trump said there would be severe consequences on Vladimir Putin if they did not get a deal in Alaska? He said severe consequences. He left that meeting and not only were there not severe consequences, but Donald Trump has since adopted Putin's position. You see the same framework when it comes to.

[Michael Knowles]

What are you talking about?

[Adam Mockler]

I will answer in one second. You see the same framework when it comes to tariffs. You asked me what I would do differently. I would add clarity and I would finish the deadlines. He put a 90 day deadline on China. When we hit that 90 days, our president.

[Michael Knowles]

You can't say I'd be clear and fast. Clear and fast about what? Then you say I would tear off other countries. He's already doing that and you were complaining about it. So what was the other thing that you would do?

[Adam Mockler]

I would not take tariff all country. I would just not even start with the tariffs. I would not start with the tariffs.

[Michael Knowles]

You would not tariff anybody. Well, you would also tariff all the countries.

[Adam Mockler]

How about this?

[Michael Knowles]

Okay.

[Adam Mockler]

I would do targeted tariffs against China like Trump did in his first administration.

[Michael Knowles]

Okay.

[Adam Mockler]

What Trump is doing is tearing up trade deals that he negotiated himself.

[Michael Knowles]

If your problem with Trump second admin. Is you'd prefer the Trump first admin. That's a pretty good answer.

[Adam Mockler]

Okay, that's your question about Putin.

[Michael Knowles]

Sure.

[Adam Mockler]

When Donald Trump went into this, this deal, went into this Alaska meeting, he was promising a ceasefire. Right.

[Michael Knowles]

He called, he asked for a ceasefire.

[Adam Mockler]

He said there would be severe consequences if there was no ceasefire.

[Michael Knowles]

Yeah.

[Adam Mockler]

After he left, guys, it's a free country. It's a free country. After he left, what he did is he said, I don't want a ceasefire anymore. I want a peace deal. What that has allowed Putin to do is not negotiate for short term peace. He has killed hundreds of civilians in Ukraine since Donald Trump. Trump said he doesn't want a ceasefire. What Donald Trump is doing is falling into the Putin framework of using negotiations to inevitably delay what Russia does. They're smart, dude. They're very, very smart. They delay. They kill people.

[Michael Knowles]

So hold on. So hold on. Your issue with Trump convening a summit in Alaska, getting Putin there, then convening Zelensky and the European leaders three days later in the White House to work on not just a ceasefire, but a broader peace deal. Your problem is, you say, well, the war has gone on three extra days and civilians are dying. No, I don't remember you saying any of that when Joe Biden was president, encouraging the war to continue.

[Adam Mockler]

I don't remember hearing the war continue.

[Michael Knowles]

He absolutely was encouraged. Joe Biden, and unfortunately, not only the Democrats, but many squishes on the. On the Republican Party were advocating for the war from a grand strategic standpoint because they said it was degrading the Russian military and it was a meat grinder in Ukraine. They were advocating for more debts and for the war to go on. And the only party that was calling for peace at all was the Republican Party. And the only president on whose watch Vladimir Putin has not further invaded a country in the last quarter century is Donald Trump.

[Cecilia Ray]

Let's be real here. You all saw. Maybe you all saw the whole meeting between Trump and Putin. Trump is Putin's. He sat down and spoke before our president. I'm sorry.

[Michael Knowles]

Well, it's so strange. I don't know, because. I don't know. Trump has levied much tougher sanctions on Vladimir Putin than Barack Obama or Joe Biden. That's kind of strange.

[Adam Mockler]

No, he is not.

[Michael Knowles]

He didn't. And he didn't lift sanctions in his first term.

[Adam Mockler]

You're talking about maybe. Are you talking about his first term?

[Michael Knowles]

And. Well, we're at seven months in this term, and he's calling.

[Adam Mockler]

Only way to end this war is to make it such that Vladimir Putin is facing such severe consequences that he will never reinvade. Russia has a strategy of launching an invasion, then they pause that invasion, then they reinvade. They've done it with multiple countries. They did it in 2008, in 2014, in 2022. We cannot allow.

[Michael Knowles]

Right. They did it under Bush and Obama and Biden and not Trump. That's really weird. How come? Through Trump. I think I'll go with Trump strategy.

[Adam Mockler]

Wait, through Trump. Trump's four years. Crimea was occupied.

[Michael Knowles]

Almost five years.

[Cecilia Ray]

Yeah.

[Adam Mockler]

No, I mean his first four years, Crimea was occupied.

[Michael Knowles]

Right. But he didn't further invade is what I said.

[Adam Mockler]

The thing is, Russia has a strategy of launching an invasion, pausing that, then reinvading. We need a peace deal that makes sure Russia cannot just reinvade.

[Michael Knowles]

Listen, I agree. I thought, I thought the Obama doctrine, as written by Jeffrey Goldberg in the Atlantic, interviewing the president that said that Vladimir Putin could operate within his strategic sphere of influence. I agree. I thought that Was terrible.

[Adam Mockler]

I agree, as well.

[Michael Knowles]

Michael, is there one more question at the microphone?

[Cecilia Ray]

So, Michael, do you think that women should work only in the kitchens or pursue their careers?

[Michael Knowles]

I think they can work in the living room, too. There are other rooms also, that are even more enjoyable. Okay, folks, that's our show. I want to thank Ceci and Adam for being here. I want to thank all of you for being here. Now, before we go, in my view, I'm very diplomatic. As you know, I'm a lover, not a fighter. I find nobody wins a bar fight. People only lose bar fights. So I want to know, of the three people up here, who do you think lost the bar fight? And I will. I'm gonna. They're yelling at poor Adam. Okay, so I'm gonna do you. What about. Is it me? Thank you. That's very. Thank you. That's very funny.

[Adam Mockler]

Totally not biased either.

[Michael Knowles]

That's really okay. Is it? Ce. I almost hesitate. I almost. Was it Adam? Was it Adam? It was.

[Adam Mockler]

We put up a fight. We put up a fight.

[Michael Knowles]

We put up a fight. All right, well, after that, you have no.

[Adam Mockler]

You're wearing a wig, brother. You're wearing a wig, sister.

[Cecilia Ray]

Oh, and he took his off.

[Adam Mockler]

I can't even hear you, bro. I can't even hear you.

[Michael Knowles]

All right, before the actual bar fight breaks out, let's go get Adam a drink for that. It was terrible treatment he got. Thank you very much to both of you for being here. Thank you to all of you. Kylie, close us out.

[Cecilia Ray]

You guys were awesome. I got three words. God, guns, and Trump.

[Michael Knowles]

All right, remember, the machine knows if you're lying. First statement.

[Audience Member]

Carvana will give you a real offer on your car.

[Michael Knowles]

All online.

[Cecilia Ray]

False.

[Audience Member]

True.

[Michael Knowles]

Actually, you can sell your car in minutes.

[Adam Mockler]

False.

[Michael Knowles]

That's gotta be true again.

[Audience Member]

Carvana will pick up your car from.

[Michael Knowles]

Your door, or you can drop it off at one of their car vending machines.

[Adam Mockler]

Sounds too good to be true. So true.

[Michael Knowles]

Finally caught on.

[Audience Member]

Nice job.

[Michael Knowles]

Honesty isn't just their policy. It's their entire model. Sell your car today, too, Carvana. Pickup fees may apply.