Michael Knowles MIC DROP Moments From BAR FIGHT Debates

Summary

The Michael Knowles Show

Episode: Michael Knowles MIC DROP Moments From BAR FIGHT Debates
Date: December 13, 2025
Podcast Host: The Daily Wire

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Episode Overview

This episode spotlights some of Michael Knowles' fiercest and most controversial "mic drop" moments from recent panel debates reminiscent of barroom brawls. With an eclectic mix of voices from across the political spectrum, Knowles takes on topics ranging from abortion and Black Lives Matter, to illegal immigration, to capitalism and moral regulation of the sex industry. The discussion is rapid-fire and often contentious, reflecting the raw, unfiltered nature of political and cultural debates in America today.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Abortion, Black Lives Matter, & Racial Disparity

• Theme: The intersection of race, abortion, and claims of systemic violence.
• Michael Knowles confronts Xena (supporter of Black Lives Matter) with the statistic that "17 million black babies have been aborted since Roe v. Wade – that's 35% of the current black population," challenging the consistency of pro-BLM and pro-choice stances ([01:42]).
  • Quote:

    "If you really care about Black Lives Matter, wouldn't you want to protect the millions of babies that are being slaughtered by their parents?"
    — Michael Knowles [01:42]

• Debate ensues about what constitutes personhood, murder, and the value of fetal vs. born life.
• Memorable moment: Xena’s question:

  "If you had to choose between saving the life of Luke or a fetus sat on this table, which one would you choose?"
  — Xena [03:35]

• Knowles sidesteps the direct choice and reaffirms, "all human life has equal dignity," outlining his absolutist pro-life stance ([03:15]).

2. Immigration, Crime, and Federal Overreach

• Theme: The complexity of crime, immigration status, and the role of government.
• Derek and Knowles clash over the framing of undocumented immigrants as criminals, with Knowles asserting, "statistically, 100% of illegal immigrants have committed a crime" ([04:28]), referencing their unlawful presence.
  • Quote:

    "It's a federal crime to steal a Social Security number."
    — Michael Knowles [05:56]

• Derek addresses crime statistics showing immigrants are less likely to commit violent crimes and highlights the nuance between criminality and violence ([04:12]).
• The debate expands into the ethics of tax-paying systems for undocumented immigrants and the legitimacy of federal authority.

3. Corruption & Double Standards: Trump vs. Biden

• Theme: Allegations of corruption, partisan outrage, and ‘whataboutism.’
• Frank challenges Knowles’ outrage over alleged Biden family corruption compared to Trump's business dealings ([07:19]).
• Knowles draws a distinction between Trump’s sons having "long standing business careers" and the Biden family's alleged selling of influence ([08:48]).
  • Quote:

    "Eric and Donald Trump Jr. have very long standing business careers long before Donald Trump entered."
    — Michael Knowles [08:49]

• The exchange highlights partisanship in assessing political scandals and the difficulty in objective assessments.

4. Violence & Psychopathy: Political or Personal?

• Theme: The utility and danger of framing violence along partisan lines.
• Greg questions the focus on labeling acts of violence as “left-wing” or “right-wing,” suggesting mental illness and radicalization (e.g., mass shooters) are more decisive ([11:24]).
  • Quote:

    "It's just very reductive the way that we do this."
    — Greg [11:33]

• Derek counters with trends about “white male violence problem” in mass shootings, sparking a brief clash with Knowles over crime statistics and the value of ideological motive ([12:10]).
• Knowles argues the necessity of identifying ideological motives in some cases to effectively tackle problems ([12:21]).

5. Capitalism Explained & Critiqued

• Theme: The nature of capitalism, class, and systemic economic inequality.
• Xena defines capitalism and criticizes wealth concentration and historical injustices that laid its foundation ([12:58]).
• Knowles challenges her on ownership, noting, "62% of Americans invest in the stock market. So most Americans own the means of production" ([15:29]).
  • Quote:

    "62%. So most Americans own the means of production."
    — Michael Knowles [15:29]

• Xena pushes back on whether stock ownership equates to substantive profit or control ([15:34]).

6. Morality, OnlyFans, and Government Regulation

• Theme: Sex work, free market morality, and the legitimacy of government intervention.
• Discussion arises over OnlyFans and whether participants are themselves to blame or are victims of larger economic/social malaise.
• Knowles is firmly against OnlyFans, labeling it “objectively bad” without equivocation ([17:33]).
  • Quote:

    "Just because you're wrong about something doesn't mean it's not [objectively immoral]."
    — Michael Knowles [17:36]

• Adam challenges whether Knowles’ prescription isn’t an argument for big-government moral intrusion ([17:40]).
  • Quote:

    "If you want the government to be able to step in and regulate something like OnlyFans... what happens when the next administration comes in and they say, any dude with a mic who is spewing stuff like Michael Knowles is? I think that that's immoral. And I want to regulate dudes with microphones."
    — Adam [19:32]

• Knowles: "You have just described how government works. Yes." ([19:46])
• The exchange crystallizes the tension between freedom, personal morality, and the law.

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• "If you really care about Black Lives Matter, wouldn't you want to protect the millions of babies that are being slaughtered by their parents?"
  — Michael Knowles [01:42]

• "Statistically, 100% of illegal immigrants have committed a crime."
  — Michael Knowles [04:28]

• "It's a federal crime to steal a Social Security number."
  — Michael Knowles [05:56]

• "Eric and Donald Trump Jr. have very long standing business careers long before Donald Trump entered."
  — Michael Knowles [08:49]

• "It's just very reductive the way that we do this."
  — Greg [11:33]

• "62%. So most Americans own the means of production."
  — Michael Knowles [15:29]

• "Just because you're wrong about something doesn't mean it's not [objectively immoral]."
  — Michael Knowles [17:36]

• "You have just described how government works. Yes."
  — Michael Knowles [19:46]

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Important Timestamps

• Abortion & Black Lives Matter: [01:24]–[03:46]
• Immigration Crime & Federal Law: [04:12]–[06:17]
• Trump vs. Biden Corruption Debate: [07:19]–[08:48]
• Violence, Partisanship & Psychopathy: [11:24]–[12:58]
• Explainer: Capitalism & Economic Equality: [12:58]–[15:34]
• Morality of OnlyFans, Free Market & Government: [16:21]–[19:46]

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Tone & Style

The episode maintains a brisk, no-holds-barred debate atmosphere. Knowles is often blunt, Socratic, and unapologetically conservative, frequently dismissing opposing arguments through stark logic, rhetoric, or data challenges. Interlocutors are a mix of passionate, skeptical, and occasionally sarcastic, creating a dynamic and sometimes combative dialogue—fully in line with the “bar fight” debate motif.

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This summary captures the main substance, character, and quotable moments from this episode’s clash of political philosophies and personalities.

Transcript

[Michael Knowles]

This episode is brought to you by Jack Daniels. Jack Daniels and music are made for each other. They share a rhythm in the craft of making something timeless while being a part of legendary nights. From backyard jams to sold out arenas, there's a song in every toast. Please drink responsibly. Responsibility.org Jack Daniels and old number seven are registered trademarks. Tennessee whiskey.

[Adam]

40 alcohol by volume.

[Michael Knowles]

Jack Daniel Distillery, Lynchburg, Tennessee. No, not. Not over the last four.

[Xena]

Hold on.

[Michael Knowles]

I gotta.

[Derek]

I gotta. I have a whole sentence that you're interrupting.

[Emily]

You have to go to their page to see it.

[Michael Knowles]

You have described how government works. Yes. Wouldn't you want to protect the millions of babies that are being slaughtered by their parents? That's a federal crime. 42 U.S. code Section 408. It's a federal crime to scale a Social Security number.

[Frank]

You never found evidence linking him to Hunter. But even so.

[Michael Knowles]

Never found evidence. The. The money went straight to his house. That's not true.

[Greg]

Was he Republican or was he a Democrat? He's a psychopath.

[Michael Knowles]

I don't want to embarrass you, Adam. That makes you look like a weirdo. You should have clapped. Okay, next question. Okay, this question is for Xena. I'm assuming you're a supporter of Black Lives Matter.

[Xena]

I do believe Black Lives Matter, yes.

[Michael Knowles]

Okay.

[Adam]

Okay, Good.

[Michael Knowles]

Good. So if you're in favor of protecting black lives, where do you believe the most dangerous place in our country is right now for black children?

[Xena]

That depends. Probably at the hands of law enforcement. I think that would be, like, the worst place for a lot of black children to be, but.

[Michael Knowles]

Okay, so According to the CDC, 17 million black babies have been aborted since Roe V. Wade. That's 35% of the current black population in America, unfortunately. So if you really care about Black Lives Matter, wouldn't you want to protect the millions of babies that are being slaughtered by their parents?

[Xena]

Yeah. So the only problem is, when you're with your girlfriend and she needs to get a plan B, we don't kind of charge her with murder. Right. That's because fetuses don't have plans.

[Michael Knowles]

Who needs to get a plan B? That's an abortifi. It's an abortion drug.

[Xena]

A lot of people.

[Michael Knowles]

Yeah, you don't need to. You could just have the kid.

[Xena]

You could. Or you can also, you know, engage in your rights and get a plan B.

[Michael Knowles]

Like a lot of marriage, you could kill your kid. But he's saying that's bad. And it's bad specifically for black people.

[Xena]

Any women in here who have IUDs, you could be considered a murderer, according to Michael Knowles.

[Michael Knowles]

No, IUDs are not necessarily abortive fashion the way that plan B are.

[Xena]

In many different cases, IUDs will actually remove.

[Michael Knowles]

I don't support those eggs. But they're different than.

[Xena]

Plants fertilize eggs from the uterus, and.

[Michael Knowles]

That would lead to.

[Xena]

Or implantation. You're right. And that would lead to a baby no longer being able to be conceived. So, yes, that would be considered a murder of a human person. Right. That would be equal to any of the lives in here, which isn't the case. If we had, like, 50 fetuses just, like, stacked up on this table and we took 50 people from the audience, would you say, like, these lives are worth the same? Are those lives the same?

[Michael Knowles]

Yeah, I think all human life has equal dignity.

[Xena]

So if we said. Okay, let's take Luke over here. If we said Luke or one fetus, like, literally sitting on the table.

[Michael Knowles]

Xena, which one would you. When do human beings. I like Luke. Come on. That's not nice. She didn't even ask the question yet.

[Xena]

Which one would you. If you had to choose between saving the life of Luke or a fetus sat on this table, which one would you choose? Michael?

[Michael Knowles]

Xena, when do you believe that human beings. Okay, next question.

[Xena]

That sums everything up.

[Michael Knowles]

So I want to speak to your analogy. You said if, in response to the ICE agents coming into cities where the governors are saying they don't want them, you said if someone came into your house uninvited, there would be consequences. So this country is our house. It's our home. So how would you. How would you feel about the consequences for the people who are here illegally and uninvited? You know, great point.

[Derek]

I was just reading about. Reading up on statistics on that today, and some of you are gonna hate this, but it's factual. Immigrants, including undocumented immigrants, are less likely to commit crime than people who are born in this country. And statistically, the more immigrants there are in a community, the less crime there is in that community.

[Michael Knowles]

Per capita, statistically, 100% of illegal immigrants have committed a crime.

[Derek]

It's factually true.

[Michael Knowles]

It's a little complicated because. Let's be clear about.

[Derek]

He just said if they already committed a crime. I want to be clear. And being in the country, most people who are here without papers got here on, like, a tourist visa and overstayed. Most people who are here illegally don't.

[Michael Knowles]

No, not over the last four years.

[Host]

Hold on.

[Derek]

I Gotta. I have a whole sentence that you're interrupting. But to be clear, so legally being if all you've done is been in this country without papers, that's legally more like a misdemeanor, closer to a parking ticket than it is to a felony.

[Michael Knowles]

That's just parking ticket. Hold on. So hold on, you make a very good point, which is that a first time entry, barring other conditions can be a misdemeanor for sure. Reentry would be a felony. There are other associated crimes. With this, however, I would ask one question. Do illegal aliens pay federal taxes?

[Derek]

Yeah, actually they do. They do tax and income tax often. 90 billion.

[Greg]

Actually.

[Derek]

The IRS has a whole system for people who are undocumented to file taxes.

[Michael Knowles]

Okay, so I'm glad.

[Derek]

And by the way, economists overwhelmingly believe that immigration, including illegal immigration, is a net positive.

[Michael Knowles]

Forget about that. I just have one, I have one question for you because if you make the point as you have that actually, you know, illegal aliens, even though they don't have Social Security numbers, they do pay federal taxes because, you know, to get employment sometimes they'll use other Social Security numbers. So they don't get the benefits, but they do pay into the system, which.

[Derek]

That's a fact.

[Michael Knowles]

Yeah. Okay. That's a federal crime. 42 U.S. code Section 408. It's a federal crime to steal a Social Security number.

[Host]

So there you go.

[Michael Knowles]

You got it. No, no, I just want to be clear.

[Derek]

I want to be clear process for people to pay taxes without stealing the.

[Michael Knowles]

Social Security number, which you just admitted is a crime.

[Derek]

Violent crime versus paperwork.

[Michael Knowles]

Okay, so now it's. That is, we've updated it. It's not that they don't commit crimes, it's that they don't commit violent crimes.

[Derek]

Who has not had a speeding ticket ever in.

[Michael Knowles]

I don't know if it's going to.

[Derek]

Like a speed, then you guys live your life.

[Michael Knowles]

And a mother has to be a lot of good drivers out there.

[Derek]

Throw you into a prison surrounded by alligators because of your speeding ticket. Also, also, fun fact. Fun fact, 70 more than 70% of people in ICE custody today don't even have an accusation of a crime, let alone a record.

[Michael Knowles]

I think the accusation is they came into the country illegally.

[Derek]

Okay?

[Frank]

So I mean, just be consistent. I've been very consistent. Be consistent.

[Michael Knowles]

I am legit.

[Frank]

If you did it, one story about Hunter Biden, you better be 100 times as outraged at Trump going, getting the UAE to invest billions, make his World Liberty Financial billions in a business deal and then immediately all of a sudden, he releases the restrictions on the AI chips that they really wanted and which could then get into China's hands because he was enriched. Same thing with the Binance guy. He ends up pardoning the guy after Binance makes a bunch of money for World Liberty Financial. That's brazen corruption. Right?

[Derek]

Yeah.

[Michael Knowles]

I guess my point is, on some of these. No, on a lot of these financial dealings of Trump, a lot of it occurred during the interregnum. You know, the crypto thing occurred before he was brought in.

[Frank]

No, no, not the UAE deal.

[Michael Knowles]

I'm sorry, I thought you brought up crypto earlier, which is usually the one that most people are.

[Frank]

I'm saying how could you justify someone giving benefits to either people through pardons or countries through restriction relief after that country or that person enriches his family to the tune of billions?

[Michael Knowles]

Yeah, listen, I think that President Trump has done a very good job being an international businessman, leveraging relationships for the good of the United States. Why are you talking about. I think that's true. And what I also think.

[Xena]

Wait.

[Frank]

Were you ever mad about Hunter Biden and Joe Biden?

[Michael Knowles]

Yeah, I was mad that the Biden family sold American influence and fired a Ukrainian official in order to enrich his son. Yeah. I think those are different.

[Frank]

Biden was. You never found evidence linking him to Hunter. But even so, you never found evidence.

[Michael Knowles]

The money went straight to his house. That's not true.

[Xena]

It did.

[Michael Knowles]

It wrote his speech.

[Frank]

A reimbursement of a loan. But after all of y' all made of that, a whole big scandal, and then Trump takes all over and there's no ambiguity. And his sons are going around the world making a bunch of money for his family, and then he's trading favors.

[Michael Knowles]

Yeah, listen, he has a very successful business and his sons are businessmen. So that's. That's back.

[Frank]

Everything about Hunter.

[Michael Knowles]

Certainly not. That was brazen corruption.

[Host]

Why?

[Michael Knowles]

What's the difference? This is the. What's the difference? Here. Here's the difference. Here's the difference. Eric and Donald Trump Jr. Someone in the crowd.

[Frank]

I'd love to hear you explain that.

[Michael Knowles]

You're so proud. You don't know what you're talking about. Here's the difference. Eric and Donald Trump Jr. Have very long standing business careers long before Donald Trump entered.

[Frank]

They don't have specific deals with people who need something from the government.

[Michael Knowles]

They have the new deals. He doesn't want me to answer the question. He doesn't want me to answer the question. You know what I'm talking about. Trump you know what? I can tell you the difference if you want. You know what Trump's doing?

[Frank]

He doesn't need big tech to censor or whatever. He's censoring the media himself.

[Michael Knowles]

That's good.

[Host]

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[Michael Knowles]

Now, if anyone has any questions, any. Oh, I see the line is already very long. Okay.

[Greg]

Hey, what's up? I was just at Raising Cane's with some friends and they're like, oh, we need some people that probably aren't Republicans in here.

[Michael Knowles]

So we're in here now. If you're a Republican. Okay.

[Greg]

No, hey, I'm like, kind of way more small government leaning. So, like, all this, like, oh, like what the states want and what the mayor wants. I'm just going to do what I want because I'm. The White House is, like, kind of psycho to me, right? Like, that's not. That's probably not going to foster, like, a healthy society when you have, like, the federal government really overstepping coming from this side of things. I'm just kind of curious, why are you so set on making, like, left wing violence and right wing violence? Because, like, obviously sometimes people are psychopaths, right? Like, we're on the same page there. Like, there's people that like, oh, they grew up in a MAGA household and then they, like, got addicted to porn on like, 4chan and they, you know, they go psycho and they kill people. And it's so weird to watch experts be like, was he Republican or was he a Democrat? No, he's a psychopath. Like. Like, I. So I have my master's degree in psychology.

[Michael Knowles]

Right.

[Derek]

That's why I don't care.

[Greg]

And, like, I just think it's kind of stupid just to be real.

[Michael Knowles]

Okay. Okay. I mean, you have to.

[Greg]

What?

[Derek]

Yeah.

[Greg]

So it's just. It's just very reductive the way that we do this.

[Derek]

Yeah, I think that's a great point. I think one thing that I will say is that if we looked at some of the trends that are worth looking at, there is a real white male violence problem just about every time there's a shooting. I know you. I know. Look, I know you're like, I know you. I know you've decided that all comments that paint white man in a bad light is bad.

[Michael Knowles]

Do we have to break out the crime statistics? Because I don't know if we want to break out.

[Derek]

Just about every time there's a shooter, it's like, oh, surprise, surprise, it's another white guy who got radicalized online. We have a radicalization problem.

[Michael Knowles]

You think white guys are more likely to commit violent crime than other races?

[Derek]

No, I didn't say that. In mass shootings, specifically, we have a radicalization problem with white men. Yeah.

[Michael Knowles]

Yeah. Okay. Well, I guess one thought that I would have in response to your question is the reason why it matters if they're on the left and the right. Some people are just psychotic and you can't identify an ideological motive. Sure, that's true. But sometimes you can. And it seems to me that if you want to fix a problem, you have to first identify what the problem is. And so if you refuse, if you just bury your head in the sand, or if you say it's the other side, then you're not going to solve the problem. In all of the complexity of conversation, nobody has asked directly, what is capitalism? And can you explain the differences between Democrats and Republican thinking? I want to go, Xena.

[Xena]

This is my thing, everybody. Capitalism is an economic system in which means production are owned privately. Think of means production as factories, as land, as the things that we use to create its capital. Right. The things that we use to create capital. These things, this means production, are owned by a very small fuel. Not many people own the means of production. Most of us are selling our labor. Like, for example, most of you guys have a 9 to 5 that you go and you get a kind of a wage back. Right. From capitalists. Those who own means production. The problem is we assume that people who own the means production earned that somehow when really the people who did first acclaim the majority of these resources, it happened a long time ago and they kept passing it down, generation, generation, generations. The problem is people who first came here, they did a lot of bad stuff. They took a lot of land and their. Their ancestors still owned that land. They were heroes. The people who slaughtered and a bunch of people and then took all their land and then started profiting off of it and then also selling people's labor and their livelihoods for money. Those are heroes. Interesting point.

[Michael Knowles]

The Indians slaughtered a lot of people too. If we're being totally honest about.

[Xena]

Do you want to compare numbers? I don't think that it would look good. Right?

[Michael Knowles]

Well, we won the war. Yeah.

[Xena]

You won the war by doing what, Michael?

[Michael Knowles]

Well, by settling the land and building a great country that you live in.

[Xena]

And that you prosper the land that people were already living on by killing them, spreading things towards them and also women. So, yeah.

[Host]

Where'd you get that?

[Michael Knowles]

It happened all the time. I have a question to your point.

[Xena]

That's what capitalism is.

[Michael Knowles]

I have a question to your point.

[Xena]

Republicans and Democrats both support capitalism, right? Of course. But capitalism is a system that is exceedingly failing as the gap between us and the 1% and people who own all this capital continues to increase, increase, increase. What's going to happen, especially as AI comes along that continues to be able to do your job, is that 1% of the population is going to own all that AI that can do your jobs. And what happens then when they can create the labor and supply it for themselves?

[Michael Knowles]

Okay, here's a good question for your point. So you say that capitalism is where the means of production are owned privately. I agree with that. And you say that a very, very small number of people own the means of production. So my question to you is, how many Americans invest in the stock market?

[Xena]

How many Americans have the means to invest in the stock market? How many Americans have.

[Michael Knowles]

There is an answer.

[Xena]

I promise to invest in the stock market.

[Michael Knowles]

What's the answer?

[Xena]

Majority of Americans are broke.

[Michael Knowles]

What is the answer? What percentage of Americans invest in the stock market?

[Xena]

Not many. Because not many.

[Michael Knowles]

62%. So most Americans own the means of production.

[Xena]

And how many Americans. And how many Americans are profiting significantly?

[Michael Knowles]

62%. Because we have the highest stock market ever under deficit.

[Xena]

Everyone is profiting from the stock market?

[Michael Knowles]

They are. Everyone who's invested in the S and P is doing great.

[Ian]

I understand what you're saying that it's self inflicted because I think if a man sees, sees a problem, he shouldn't blame anybody else for it. He could, he should do whatever he has to do to fix the problem. But what do you think? What do you think, what do you think about the fact that an estimated 1.4 million women in America are on Only Fans and most of them aren't making any money from it? So if you're. Well, but if you're in college, if you're in college and you're trying to meet the person you're going to be with the rest of your life, what are you supposed to do? When, when like 25% of the chicks around there are showing their tits online.

[Emily]

For free market, well then that's not okay. So then, well, since they're out there and you know they're on only fans and that you already can write them off as the chick you don't want. So I guess they're exposing themselves so that, you know, that's not fair.

[Ian]

I'm just saying it's like harder to catch a fish when you dump toxic waste in the pond is all I'm saying.

[Michael Knowles]

You know, hold on. His, his other problem with it, your problem with it, right? When you said the question was not that they're on only fans but that they're not making any money from it.

[Ian]

That's the. There's an argument if she's making a million dollars.

[Emily]

I mean, if they're doing it for no money, that's just stupid. But also, there can't be a seller without a buyer. So maybe if a lot of, you.

[Ian]

Know, I think it's gross.

[Adam]

The reason why, the reason why OnlyFans is popular is because a lot of lonely young men buy only fans.

[Emily]

Can't be a seller without a buyer.

[Michael Knowles]

Those lonely.

[Ian]

But if there's nothing to buy, you can't buy it.

[Michael Knowles]

If there's nothing to buy, you can't buy.

[Adam]

I thought we liked free market capitalism in here.

[Michael Knowles]

I thought if there was no man. Not unrestrained by a moral order.

[Adam]

If there is demand. Wait, so you're okay?

[Michael Knowles]

I don't worship mammon.

[Adam]

Are you okay with the government stepping in? If there's a more immortal. So is the government in your eyes? Sorry, I don't really know much about your ideology. Is the government in your eyes the ultimate arbiter of what's moral and what's not?

[Michael Knowles]

No, there's an objective moral order that we can intuit because we're creatures of reason.

[Adam]

Only fans is Objectively bad in your eyes?

[Michael Knowles]

Yeah, for sure.

[Adam]

Not in my eyes. So it's not objective?

[Frank]

No.

[Michael Knowles]

Just because you're wrong about something doesn't mean it's not.

[Adam]

That's convenient. That's convenient for you.

[Michael Knowles]

No, no, listen. Two plus two equals four. You talk to a three year old kid, he might think two plus two equals five. That doesn't mean that we just throw our hands in the air and come to a.

[Adam]

There's a creator economy and onlyfans with not only millions or 1.4 million girls participating, but even more millions of men. So all of these people in your eyes are just complete moral degenerates who are wrong?

[Michael Knowles]

Yeah, basically we all sin.

[Adam]

What's your governmental prescription to stop that from happening? What's your prescription? Does the government step in and regulate only fans? Stop men from buying that that's okay.

[Emily]

Wait, yeah, basically.

[Adam]

That's not small government, that's more government. So you want more government to step in?

[Michael Knowles]

Yeah, I want. I want a proper limited government. Real conservative pursues the common good. I want. I'm not a libertarian, but I'm a conservative.

[Emily]

But I want to ask the audience a quick question.

[Xena]

Do you.

[Emily]

Okay, for the guys in here, clap if you would want to see only fans completely go away. Okay, wait. Okay, wait.

[Michael Knowles]

Now hold on, Adam.

[Emily]

You're not clapping now clap if you don't care. If you don't want it to go away, I mean, I don't get it. You don't have to watch it.

[Michael Knowles]

Hold on. I don't want to embarrass you, Adam, but notice here, she said do you want to see this like disgusting pornography site? Go away and clap if you want to do it. And you didn't clap. That makes you look like a weirdo. You should have clapped.

[Derek]

You should have clapped like a weirdo.

[Adam]

Can I just explain?

[Michael Knowles]

Yes.

[Adam]

I'm just rather agnostic. I think if there's supply and demand, I think there's women being exploited, selling.

[Michael Knowles]

Their bodies for sex, they're going to be washed out of it. They're going to have trouble getting jobs. No man's going to want them.

[Emily]

Like decision though. That's their personal.

[Adam]

I think it's valid.

[Emily]

Are you their boss or their dad?

[Michael Knowles]

Like, no, I'm a citizen in a self governing republic that makes laws.

[Emily]

Go to their common good page. You have to go to their page to see it.

[Adam]

You know what my question is?

[Michael Knowles]

Yeah.

[Adam]

If you want the government to be able to step in and regulate something like only fans, can I just.

[Michael Knowles]

Which it currently does on the books, by the way. Can I just point out the problem?

[Adam]

When the government is arbiting what's more moral like that, then what happens when the next administration comes in and they say, any dude with a mic who is spewing stuff like Michael Knowles is? I think that that's immoral. I think that that is objectively immoral. And I want to regulate dudes with microphones. There's a slippery slope.

[Michael Knowles]

You have just described how government works. Yes, that's true.

[Host]

There is a.

[Adam]

No, no, no. I am describing what happens when one government overreaches and tries to impose their morals. You have a slippery slope. Wait, so if you're saying this is how government works, why doesn't the Trump administration regulate and ban only fans like everyone in this room wants? Because they are not going to do that.

[Michael Knowles]

Well, because the Supreme Court weakened the obscenity laws, which have been on the book since the founding of the country, and they did that in the middle of the 20th century, which was terrible.

[Adam]

Not how administrations work. Because the Supreme Court is not allowing the administration to do it.

[Michael Knowles]

No, but George W. Bush prosecuted a pornographer for obscenity in 2008.

[Adam]

One pornographer is different than banning an.

[Michael Knowles]

Industry at the federal level.

[Adam]

You want the government to ban an industry.

[Michael Knowles]

When is it?

[Adam]

When's the last time the government's banned an industry that has demand?

[Michael Knowles]

What was the answer out there? Prostitute? Well, it depends in certain places, but.

[Emily]

I say it still.

[Adam]

When's the last time they have banned federally some sort of demand market narcotics? Narcotics.

[Derek]

Not.

[Michael Knowles]

Well, I guess marijuana, for that matter. At the federal level, not at the state level.

[Adam]

I guess that works, but I just don't think that's comparable to only.

[Michael Knowles]

Adam. Adam, wouldn't you say that all laws to some degree have recourse to morality? Because we say this is good and this is bad, and we need to be good to the asylum seekers and we need to be good to the trans children or whatever. You're always making recourse to moral arguments. You just don't like it when we do it.

[Adam]

No, I'm arguing.

[Emily]

The thing about you, though, is that all of your positions are personal decisions and morals for you that you want to impose on me.

[Michael Knowles]

No. Well, I think actually that statement that you just made, that's your personal opinion about how government should work. But I don't want you to impose that personal opinion about what I can do with my government on me.

[Emily]

And I don't want you to decide, oh, all these women and men can't do onlyfans.

[Michael Knowles]

Well, I don't want you to decide that. I can't decide that. All those women and men can do onlyfans.

[Emily]

You can have that opinion, but you can't actually.

[Michael Knowles]

And you can have that opinion, too. But you can't make me listen to you when you say that. I can't make the government ban only fans.

[Emily]

The difference between you and I is I don't want to put anything into legislation that stops.

[Michael Knowles]

And the difference between you and I is I don't want women to be trafficked for pornography.

[Emily]

Who is being trafficked when they decide to do it themselves?

[Michael Knowles]

You have to go the page. Do they do the prostitutes on the street decide for themselves?

[Emily]

I mean, depending on the chick, right? I don't know. I'm not.

[Michael Knowles]

Maybe. Yeah.