Protester Arrested, Police Injured — Michael Knowles Returns to Pitt

Summary

Podcast Summary: The Michael Knowles Show

Episode: Protester Arrested, Police Injured — Michael Knowles Returns to Pitt
Release Date: May 4, 2025

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Introduction

In this riveting episode of The Michael Knowles Show, host Michael Knowles returns to the University of Pittsburgh (Pitt) for a follow-up discussion on his previous visit, which was marred by protests and a violent incident. The episode delves deep into contentious topics such as settler colonialism, abortion, and the Israeli-Palestinian conflict through a heated debate with three left-wing students: Michael, Mercy, and Kenny.

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Background: Michael Knowles' Return to Pitt

Michael Knowles begins by recounting his previous visit to Pitt, highlighting the hostility he faced:

• [00:39] Michael Knowles: "When I walked up, the street was on fire with my welcoming committee which was burning me in effigy."

• [00:39] Michael Knowles: "Some antifa lunatic threw an explosive at the building and actually seriously injured a cop."

He emphasizes the heightened security and the expectation of a similarly charged atmosphere upon his return, though he notes with relief that no violent incidents occurred this time.

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Engaging with Opponents: A Heated Dialogue

Knowles sits down with three left-wing students—Michael, Mercy, and Kenny—to engage in a face-to-face dialogue. Despite the initial tension, the conversation progresses into substantive debates on several pressing issues.

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1. Settler Colonialism

The discussion kicks off with the topic of settler colonialism, revealing fundamental disagreements on its interpretation and implications.

• [03:00] Kenny: "Mainly the stance on settler colonialism. For somebody who claims to be a conservative, it's difficult to justify some types of colonialism versus others."

• [03:20] Michael Knowles: "The Constitution was ratified in a colonial age by people who were themselves colonists... So why is it bad to some and not others?"

Knowles argues that the framers of the Constitution were themselves colonists, suggesting that colonialism was inherent to the nation's founding principles. The student counters by asserting that all colonialism is inherently detrimental, conflicting with constitutional values influenced by thinkers like John Locke.

Key Points:

• Historical Context: Knowles highlights the colonial roots of American governance.
• Moral Opposition: The student emphasizes the universal negativity of colonialism, regardless of context.
• Practical Implications: They debate whether supporting certain colonial actions aligns with constitutional and moral frameworks.

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2. Abortion

A significant portion of the episode is dedicated to the morally and politically charged issue of abortion, where both sides present starkly different views.

• [07:29] Mercy: "I think morally is different from how we view things in the political sense... we should allow the woman to make that choice."

• [07:41] Michael Knowles: "I think it's a totally black and white issue and I don't think abortion is ever necessary... except in cases like ectopic pregnancy."

Knowles maintains a strict pro-life stance, arguing that abortion is morally unacceptable except in rare, life-threatening medical scenarios. Mercy counters by distinguishing moral opposition from political action, advocating for women's autonomy in making reproductive choices.

• [10:19] Mercy: "We should not enforce abortion laws if they don't align with moral imperatives... increasing sexual education is a more effective way to reduce abortions."

Key Points:

• Moral Absolutism vs. Nuanced Perspectives: Knowles insists on the inherent wrongness of abortion, while Mercy argues for contextualizing the issue within broader societal factors.
• Impact of Legislation: They discuss historical parallels, such as the effects of alcohol bans and the legalization of abortion, debating the potential rise of illicit practices and unintended consequences.
• Effective Solutions: Mercy advocates for education and socioeconomic support over restrictive laws to address abortion rates.

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3. Israeli-Palestinian Conflict

The episode culminates with a discussion on the Israeli-Palestinian conflict, revealing divergent views on the path to peace and the roles of various actors.

• [15:48] Kenny: "Israel should do more to limit the settlements... The current war against Hamas is causing civilian casualties and isn't effectively addressing the hostage situation."

• [15:03] Michael Knowles: "I do think the state of Israel ought to be able to exist... It would be wrong to abolish the Jewish state to liberate a stretch of land that could elect more Islamists."

Knowles expresses a moderate pro-Israel stance, advocating for the state's right to exist and cautioning against actions that might destabilize the region further. Kenny criticizes Israeli settlement policies and the ongoing conflict with Hamas, suggesting that sustainable peace requires addressing the underlying causes of violence and improving quality of life for Palestinians.

• [17:00] Michael Knowles: "I'm a Christian... When Christians suffer, we're told to unite in faith, not resort to violence. Why justify actions like hostage-taking?"

Key Points:

• State Legitimacy vs. Settlement Policies: Knowles supports Israel's existence but remains non-committal on settlement expansions, whereas Kenny pushes for more stringent settlement limitations.
• Causes of Conflict: Kenny attributes the rise of extremist groups like Hamas to prolonged suffering and inadequate support for Palestinians.
• Path to Peace: Emphasis on negotiation, improved living conditions, and addressing grievances as means to achieve lasting peace.

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Conclusions and Reflections

Throughout the episode, Michael Knowles demonstrates his commitment to engaging directly with opposing viewpoints, striving for constructive dialogue amidst ideological differences.

• [18:48] Michael Knowles: "I'm at Pitt. And thank you for not throwing any explosives at me."

• [18:59] Michael Knowles: "As my YAF campus tour continues, I hope to encounter more students willing to cross the picket line, engage in thoughtful dialogue, and perhaps even summon the courage to sit down for a face-to-face conversation."

Takeaways:

• Commitment to Dialogue: Knowles underscores the importance of open discussion and understanding across political divides.
• Recognition of Complexity: While maintaining his viewpoints, he acknowledges the nuanced positions of his interlocutors, fostering a space for meaningful exchange.
• Call for Continued Engagement: The episode serves as a testament to the potential for respectful discourse in highly polarized environments.

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Notable Quotes with Timestamps

• Michael Knowles [00:39]: "When I walked up, the street was on fire with my welcoming committee which was burning me in effigy."
• Kenny [03:00]: "For somebody who claims to be a conservative, it's difficult to justify some types of colonialism versus others."
• Mercy [07:29]: "I think morally is different from how we view things in the political sense."
• Michael Knowles [07:41]: "I think it's a totally black and white issue and I don't think abortion is ever necessary."
• Mercy [10:19]: "Increasing sexual education is a more effective way to reduce abortions."
• Michael [15:03]: "I do think the state of Israel ought to be able to exist."
• Michael Knowles [17:00]: "When Christians suffer, we're told to unite in faith, not resort to violence."

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Final Thoughts

This episode of The Michael Knowles Show exemplifies the host's dedication to confronting controversial issues head-on, fostering dialogue even in the face of vehement opposition. By engaging with students who challenge his perspectives, Knowles not only defends his viewpoints but also illuminates the complexities surrounding modern political and cultural debates.

Transcript

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[Mercy]

Is free speech dead on campus? No, he is speaking right now. We are not shutting him down. Hopefully we can drown him out.

[Michael Knowles]

Thank you very much to the police for removing that. Can you explain what happened the last time you came to the University of Pittsburgh? Yeah, I showed up for a debate on the topic of transgenderism. And when I walked up, the street was on fire with my welcoming committee which was burning me in effigy. And as I was scheduled to walk out, some antifa lunatic threw an explosive at the building and actually seriously injured a cop.

[Kenny]

I was inside and all of a sudden I heard some loud boom. And it was a little bit worrying.

[Michael Knowles]

You think Michael's nervous to come back to campus if he didn't have security? Probably. Happily, one of the two lunatics who tried to blow me up is currently in federal prison. He's only serving a five year sentence. He should be serving a 20 year sentence and the wife basically with a slap on the wrist. But in any case, it was all reason to expect that my return to Pitt would be similarly exciting. Were you excited to come back with a welcome like this? How could I not be? I won't be silenced no more.

[Michael]

I will be up. Today, University of Pittsburgh has made a.

[Michael Knowles]

Cautious decision to allow Michael vol seek in a university building hosted by a registered student group and protected by university pay.

[Mercy]

We are not shutting him down.

[Michael Knowles]

Shut him down.

[Mercy]

Daily Wire.

[Michael Knowles]

No, you can't touch my camera.

[Michael]

Sorry.

[Michael Knowles]

Please don't.

[Kenny]

Please don't film me.

[Michael Knowles]

You touch me.

[Mercy]

We're not touching you.

[Michael]

We're just using our bodies. My truth will be told.

[Michael Knowles]

Do you mind? Asked you if you lovely people, none of the shrieking wackos outside crossed the line of cops and medical units to speak to their favorite fascist. I'm very sorry to report, however, I was able to sit down with three left wing students for a somewhat heated conversation. Thank you all for Sitting down. What's your name?

[Michael]

My name is Michael.

[Michael Knowles]

Mike. Good to see you.

[Mercy]

My name is Mercy.

[Michael Knowles]

Mercy.

[Kenny]

My name is Kenny.

[Michael Knowles]

Kenny, you all came out tonight. You disagree with me. Did I convince you by the end of the speech?

[Kenny]

No, I do not think so.

[Michael Knowles]

Okay, what do we disagree about?

[Michael]

Mainly the stance on settler colonialism.

[Michael Knowles]

Okay, what's your problem with it?

[Michael]

I guess my problem is for somebody who claims to be a conservative that's supposed to uphold the values of the Constitution, how it's difficult to justify some types of colonialism versus others.

[Michael Knowles]

Well, the Constitution was ratified in a colonial age by people who were themselves colonists and who descended from the colonial settlers themselves.

[Michael]

Yes. I'm not saying that's good. I just think that all colonialism is bad per se versus where you say.

[Michael Knowles]

Something you just said. How could one be a conservative and support the Constitution? But as I just pointed out, the Founding fathers and the framers of the Constitution had no problem with colonialism. They had just been colonists previously. So why. So it's one thing to say it's bad, but you couldn't say it's un American or not?

[Michael]

Oh, I never said that. I never said it was un American. I just say that it's contrary to the Constitution. Exactly. It's contradictory to values, especially of like John Locke and life, liberty and property.

[Michael Knowles]

John Locke didn't write the Constitution.

[Michael]

Oh, he didn't. But his ideas very greatly influenced it. You know, the life, liberty and property directly led to life, liberty and pursuit.

[Michael Knowles]

Of happiness in the Declaration of Independence.

[Michael]

Yes, that's right.

[Michael Knowles]

Which is different from the Constitution.

[Michael]

That's correct. But those ideas carried forward, especially in James Madison's framing of the Constitution.

[Michael Knowles]

Sure, yeah. I think. I think Locke's influence is a little overstated, especially by liberals deliberately. And I think that other guys like Montesquieu or even Cicero and some more conservative thinkers, even Thomas Aquinas, either directly or indirectly, I think influenced the Constitution a little bit more than it is understood, but fair enough. Point. You're saying you can't be a liberal and be a colonialist?

[Michael]

Yes, that's correct.

[Michael Knowles]

Okay, but liberals do that all the time, don't they? Why did we go in and intervene in Libya, for instance, under a very liberal government, Obama and Hillary Clinton? Why did we intervene there? There was no particular direct American interest involved. There was humanitarian reasons. Right, okay. It was a kind of colonialism, wouldn't you say?

[Michael]

Sure.

[Michael Knowles]

Well, there you go then. It doesn't contradict the liberals.

[Michael]

Well, I'm saying that you shouldn't Be that's the case. I'm saying that all types of colonialism are inherently bad versus where you are justifying some types or others because it violates people's own rights.

[Michael Knowles]

What rights to life.

[Michael]

Basically saying that.

[Michael Knowles]

No, no, you don't. No, no, no. I'm not saying when I support colonialism, I'm not supporting genocide or something like that. I'm just saying that nations have interests and we exert those interests in different places around the world. So it wouldn't violate your right to life?

[Michael]

Well, I mean, to Native Americans and people who were here before us, it does. Because they're no longer with us.

[Michael Knowles]

No.

[Michael]

Because we take their property as well.

[Michael Knowles]

No. Well, we traded with the Indians and we were there per se. Why wouldn't they have been fair?

[Michael]

Because they were being coerced. That's why I left.

[Michael Knowles]

How are they being coerced?

[Michael]

They were being coerced because whenever the treaties are being signed, there's groups of people behind them with guns who are basically saying, sign this treaty.

[Michael Knowles]

You're not going to shoot you. I think you diminish the Native Americans. I mean, I think the first Native American interaction that we had in the United States, in the first instance of settler colonialism in the Northeast at Plymouth, you know, the people who sailed on the Mayflower, which is a great cigar brand, they formed an alliance with Chief Massasoit. Massasoit, who was the chief, became the chief of the Wampanoag nation, which greatly benefited from an alliance with the Pilgrims, with the English colony. And the Wampanoag had enemies, and they actually let the English know that the Massachusetts Indians were going to come after them. And so, in fact, Massasoit himself was nursed back to life by Edward Winslow. The guy would have died without the Pilgrims. So later on, decades later, relations broke down because a direct descendant of Massasoit decided to start a war on the mistaken pretext that the English had killed his brother. But I say all of this arcane history to you to point out the real history is a lot more interesting than the notion that the Native Americans were just innocent little does who were coerced by the omnipotent white man who had total power over them. The real history shows that these Native Americans were real men. They engaged in real alliances, and they benefited, and sometimes they were damaged by it. But I guess my question then is also, what's the alternative?

[Michael]

There is unfortunately no alternative. But I'm saying that the practice as a whole is bad. And I don't think that it's good.

[Michael Knowles]

It'S bad, but there's no alternative.

[Michael]

Justified.

[Michael Knowles]

I'll take it. Okay, that's fine. Where do we disagree? Yeah.

[Mercy]

So I had a lot of issues with what you were talking about, and I myself am Christian. So the first thing I want to talk about is abortion. So you mentioned that abortion is killing, which I understand biblically. That's how it is. That is how it is presented.

[Michael Knowles]

And biologically.

[Mercy]

And biologically. But do you not agree that there are certain circumstances in which abortion is necessary? And adding onto that, do you not think that abortion is not as much of a black and white issue as you are making it out to be?

[Michael Knowles]

I think it's a totally black and white issue and I don't think abortion is ever necessary. I suppose if one looked at a very, very small number of medical problems that could arise, the death of the preborn baby could result as a consequence of that medical treatment. You'd look at a case like ectopic pregnancy where the baby implants in the fallopian tube. There it might be necessary even to remove the fallopian tube to prevent the woman from dying. That would necessarily result in the death of the baby. But the death of the baby is not what is intended. And the abortion of the baby is not the medicine to treat the mother. So that would be one example. But of course, for 99% plus of abortions, it's not to protect the life of the mother. It's not because of a pregnancy that resulted from rape or incest. It's a purely elective pregnancy. So would you agree, as a Christian, for those pregnancies, at the very least for those pregnancies, that those are morally unacceptable?

[Mercy]

I think morally is different from how we view things in the political sense.

[Michael Knowles]

How so?

[Mercy]

Because I think that morally, yes, it is wrong to kill a fetus. However, if you're looking at the impact that that child will make on the future of anyone in the United States or looking at how their life will progress, I don't think that we should be taking away the mother's right to decide whether or not they want their child to grow up in specific circumstances. Because when you're pointing out these statistics, you're saying that 99% of the cases are elective. But what is causing the mother to make these choice? Are they doing it because they want to go on a rampant killing spree of their child? No. Imagine you were in the circumstances where you were dirt poor, where you didn't have the financial ability to give your child a good life.

[Michael Knowles]

I'VE been poor at points in my.

[Mercy]

Life and so have I. So I appreciate the fact that you're bringing that up, but I think that when the mother makes that type of decision, instead of outwardly ruling that, oh, abortion is wrong, we should allow the woman to make that choice.

[Michael Knowles]

But you already believe that abortion is wrong. You already said it's morally wrong. But I just don't want to enforce it politically.

[Mercy]

Exactly.

[Michael Knowles]

So what, we're going to make laws without any recourse to morality? Is that the argument?

[Mercy]

Yeah, because we're not suppo. Okay, I understand that morals do play a big role in how we make laws.

[Michael Knowles]

That's all of it. Civil law is just an instantiation of the perception of the moral law. So then why would you divorce the two on this one particular issue?

[Mercy]

Well, I don't divorce the two on this one particular issue because there are other circumstances in which I believe we have to move away from the moral. I'm saying that not everything is as black and white as it is portrayed morally. And so when a woman decides to kill her child, it's not out of the perception that she just wants to murder her child. It's because she thinks that this is what's best. And also, if we're looking at the future of the United States in a way to actually decrease abortion rates for the long haul, removing abortion right now is not going to stop that. No, it wouldn't.

[Michael Knowles]

Abortion rates would plummet when abortion was legalized and went shot through the roof.

[Mercy]

So let's talk about what happened when the United States banned alcohol. What happened to people who were drinking alcohol? What happened to domestic abuse rates? What happened to those? They skyrocketed. So the same thing applying people stopped.

[Michael Knowles]

Drinking alcohol, domestic abuse for a little.

[Mercy]

Bit, and then it skyrocketed.

[Michael Knowles]

Also, when abortion was made illegal in 1973, what happened to black market abortions? What happened? This is often raised by the pro abortion side. They'll say, well, we're going to have black market abortions run by criminals and a lot of women are going to die. Do you know how many women died from illegal abortions the year before Roe v. Wade was ratified? 39. Not 3900. Not 39. Not 390. It was 39 women. You know how many women died from legal abortions that same year? 24. And when you factor in at the number of states where abortion was legal and illegal, the rate was almost exactly the same. So the comparison to some black market kind of abortion, there's no analogy Whatsoever.

[Mercy]

Well, that's not true whatsoever.

[Michael Knowles]

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[Mercy]

You are banning abortions in the United States, what's going to happen is that we're gonna have women fleeing to other countries that have these abortions. And also other countries.

[Michael Knowles]

I don't know. International travel's kind of expensive. I thought you said it's because women are poor that they kill their kids.

[Mercy]

I didn't say it's because women are poor. I said that's one of the contributing factors. I'm not saying that's every single thing.

[Michael Knowles]

So hold on. Just on that point at the very least, before we move on. You said you've had the experience of being poor. We had money problems a little bit when I was growing up. However, at no point did I ever think that it would be better to be dead than poor. And at no point do I think here with the argument that you're making, a woman would be justified in killing her kid because she doesn't have enough money, particularly in the richest country ever in the history of the world.

[Mercy]

Okay. I think you also have to take into consideration the women who are actually committing abortions. It's not the richest women in the world. It's not the women who are high class in the United States that are actually having these abortions. Some are, because some of them are.

[Michael Knowles]

Some actually are. It's like wealthy women.

[Mercy]

Some of them are, but they're not the majority.

[Michael Knowles]

A lot of 60% of black babies in New York are killed before they're.

[Mercy]

Born because they realize that their children are not going to grow up in a system where they are supported. Now, morally, I can make the argument all day long that abortion is wrong, and I will make the argument that abortion is wrong morally, but I don't think morally.

[Michael Knowles]

But you want to actually try to reduce the number of abortions.

[Mercy]

I do in the way that's most true because it's not the most effective way.

[Michael Knowles]

Certainly is.

[Mercy]

Without question, the best way to decrease abortions, honestly, is to increase the amount of sexual education that we are giving to our children. Because once we.

[Michael Knowles]

So hold on. I get the argument.

[Mercy]

Safe sex education. Yes. Not just like sex and parent.

[Michael Knowles]

I get the argument. My last question on this to try to understand your thinking here, because I'm very impressed that you would say I think abortion is wrong and it's tantamount to murder and I want there to be fewer abortions and I want all this stuff. If it were the case that outlawing abortion would in fact reduce abortion dramatically, why would you not support that if you have all of those other goals that you've just stated?

[Mercy]

Well, I would support it, but that's not what the actual case is.

[Michael Knowles]

You would. So if I could convince you. If I could convince you that banning abortion would reduce the number of abortions, you would support banning abortion.

[Mercy]

Yes, but that's not. That's not the actual evidence.

[Michael Knowles]

I'll get you this. It does happen. But I'll get you this statistical.

[Mercy]

That's not the actual evidence.

[Michael Knowles]

Hello.

[Kenny]

I guess I disagree with you regarding the Israeli Palestinian conflicts.

[Michael Knowles]

I don't even. What is even my view on these people try to pin me down on Israel, Palestine, which I don't really care all that much about. But what is my view? Where do we disagree?

[Kenny]

Do you support Israel's settlements in the west bank, especially the ones lodged inside cities like Hebron and the settlers who commit violence against the Palestinians and take their resources and decrease their quality of life?

[Michael Knowles]

I don't have strong feelings about Israeli settlements. I don't lose sleep at night one way or the other over it. I do think broadly that the state of Israel probably ought to be able to exist, which is contrary to the views of many people on the left, even prominent People, I do think that it would be imprudent to give the Palestinian Arabs yet another state. I don't think that would work out very well. I do think it would be wrong, actually, to abolish the Jewish state that has come to exist in the Holy Land so that we could liberate from the river to the sea a stretch of land that could then go on to elect more Islamists. I think that would be imprudent. So in that way, I guess I'm sort of vaguely pro Israel, but it's not my top issue. So what's your take on Israel, Palestine?

[Kenny]

Well, personally, I believe that Israel should do more to limit the settlements of Israelis in Palestinian territories because the vast majority of Israelis do not support the settlements in the West Bank. It's just a really fringe minority that do. And the settlers do not contribute to the peace process. They actually complicate the peace process. By the way, I do not support Hamas or anything. I do think that Hamas is really bad. But I think the war that Israel is currently waging against Hamas is causing a lot of civilian casualties and it is not bringing back any of the hostages. It is, in fact, killing the hostages and Gazan civilians. I think Israel should try to negotiate with Hamas and through a longer period of time, like, slowly try to build peace and build security in Israel and Gaza, improve their quality of life so that they would not have an incentive to attack Israel again. Because they attacked Israel because they suffered so much and they just wanted to take revenge, which that form of revenge by killing civilians is not justified, but it is caused by their suffering.

[Michael Knowles]

It sounds like what you're saying, except for this one point, which we can talk about. It sounds like what you're saying is it's a great pity that the war is happening, and I hope it comes to a resolution soon. And I recognize these really, but I wish they'd be nicer to the Palestinians. That's basically what you're saying. So the one point of contention maybe would be that the reason that a group of people went out and raped and murdered like, a thousand people and took hundreds of hostages was because they were just suffering. You know, they were just expressing their feelings because I suffer, too. And I'm not a Muslim and I'm not a Jew, so I guess I don't have much of a role in the Israel Palestine conflict. But I am a Christian. And when Christians suffer, we're told to kiss it up to God and have our suffering unite us to Christ on the cross. I'm never at any point impelled to go kidnap and murder and rape people. So why are we justifying it when the Palestinian Arabs do it?

[Kenny]

Oh, no, I'm absolutely not justifying them. I'm just saying the reason they did it is because of their suffering. But that is absolutely not justified. But another point is Hamas was propped up by Netanyahu's government as a counterbalance to the Palestinian Authority in the West Bank. Netanyahu himself has said in past years.

[Michael Knowles]

That, yes, Hamas, he played one party off the other party. Yes, yeah, yeah, well, that happens all the time in politics. But I don't think you can blame Benjamin Netanyahu for anything you like. You can't really blame him for the election of Hamas. Right? It wasn't him who did that. It was the people of Gaza.

[Kenny]

It was indirectly Israeli politicians that caused Hamas to be elected because they have caused so much pain and suffering upon Palestinians that they felt that they needed to elect such a radical party to power.

[Michael Knowles]

You have a great deal of empathy. Some would call it suicidal empathy, but it's charming. In any case, thank you very much for sitting down, guys.

[Kenny]

Thank you.

[Mercy]

Thank you so much.

[Michael Knowles]

Such a pleasure. Thank you.

[Michael]

Thank you.

[Michael Knowles]

See you next time I'm at Pitt. And thank you for not throwing any explosives at me. Some other people in this town.

[Michael]

Oh, yeah. Are you deathly afraid of tambourines? There was somebody out there with one eye.

[Michael Knowles]

Were there tambourines?

[Michael]

Yeah, there were tambourines.

[Michael Knowles]

That's quite a downgrade in weaponry. I go from explosives to maybe I'll join the drum circle. Maybe Michael Mercy and Kenny did not end up agreeing with me. Or if they did, they at least did not admit it. As my YAF campus tour continues, I hope to encounter more students like the ones I spoke with at Pitt. Students willing to cross the picket line, engage in thoughtful dialogue, and perhaps even summon the courage to sit down for a face to face conversation.