The Michael Knowles Show

Episode: "The First Time I Saw Jesus" Beyond The Veil | The Seer Pt. 2
Date: December 26, 2025

Episode Overview

This episode continues Michael Knowles' exploration into the extraordinary spiritual experiences of his guest (name not specified, but distinctively a modern Christian "seer"). The episode centers on direct, vivid encounters with spiritual realities—angels, demons, and Christ himself. The conversation delves into interpreting these phenomena, grappling with faith and doubt, the tension between activism and contemplation, and the overwhelming nature of divine love as perceived through mystical visions. The guest shares moving stories and profound insights on grace, evil, and the mystery of free will.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Reality of Spiritual Experience

• The guest recounts vivid visions, including witnessing angels, demons, and Jesus.
• Emphasis is placed on spiritual realities being more about revealing God's character than about serving human practicalities.
• Knowles and his guest reflect on the meaning and purpose behind extraordinary experiences.

Notable Quote:

"For the very first time in my life, I saw Jesus standing there... Jesus leaned forward and he kissed her on the forehead. Every single link in the chain exploded like firecrackers. And as the last link in the chain broke, there was this bright flash of white light..."
—Guest (02:01)

2. Interpreting Signs & Wonders vs. Activism

• Knowles recounts his professor's view that Christians are called primarily to interpret, not to activism.
• The host warns against a purely utilitarian approach to spiritual experiences.
• They discuss how modern culture's insistence on action can overshadow the value of contemplation and interpretation.

Notable Quote:

"We're not the chief actors in salvation. We are recipients of grace, but we're not saving ourselves here."
—Michael Knowles (03:07)

3. Personal Stories of Angelic Intervention

• The guest shares a powerful vision at a warehouse, observing how every person has an angel with them through joys and intense suffering.
• The metaphor of chains and darkness is depicted when recounting a woman's harsh life and her angel defending her in her final moments.

Notable Quote:

"I saw this angel with this woman in an alleyway when she was being attacked... This angel was fighting off this darkness, a sword in each hand. I have in no film or historical account seen a fight that was more furious, more impassioned."
—Guest (07:27)

4. Wrestling with Doubt & The Problem of Evil

• The guest describes a brief period identifying as an atheist despite these visions, wrestling with the logical problem of evil and divine hiddenness.
• He reflects on the challenge of reconciling the suffering he witnessed with the presence and efforts of angels.
• The discussion brings up the limits of logic in the face of supernatural encounters.

Notable Quote:

"Even though this problem of evil, like why do bad things happen to people... I can see that the attitude of that angel is the most desperate fight that I have ever seen in my entire life."
—Guest (10:53)

5. Faith Reconstruction in the Age of New Atheism

• Both Knowles and the guest discuss grappling with atheism in the early 2000s amidst the cultural rise of Hitchens, Harris, and others.
• The guest describes methodically “setting his beliefs on the table,” examining each in the context of his experiences and re-adopting what strong reasoning and experience could support.

Notable Quote:

"I wanted to take everything that I believe and not throw it away, but set it on the table and decide what I want to pick up and what I don't."
—Guest (16:22)

6. The Transformative Vision—Encountering Jesus

• The episode’s centerpiece is the guest’s first direct vision of Jesus during a youth conference (21:25–32:41).
• He narrates seeing Christ waiting for a troubled girl, breaking the chains of her oppression with a kiss, and being blinded by the light that follows.
• He describes then receiving a supernatural perspective—seeing the entirety of people’s lives and futures, overwhelmed by an immense, divine love for each.

Notable Moments & Quotes:

"For the very first time in my life, I saw Jesus standing there... He sees no one but her... The moment he kissed her on the forehead, every single link in the chain exploded like firecrackers... and as the last link in the chain, there was this bright flash of white light..."
—Guest (21:25, 21:48)

"I saw everything there is to know about her life... all the decisions she could possibly make... the perfect path the Lord had laid before her... and all of this just swirled into this overwhelming feeling of love—so massive, it was painful to behold."
—Guest (27:53)

7. Understanding Divine Love as Interpretive Compass

• The vision leaves him with an interpretation that the only valid lens for these supernatural experiences is love—God's love as the guiding principle.
• Attempts to act on that love through normal means (hugs, words, actions) seem “woefully inadequate” compared to its enormity.
• This shifts the guest’s focus from "What can I do?" to "How does this reveal who God is?"

Notable Quote:

"If it serves that kind of goodness, that kind of love, then it couldn't be just something that I manufactured... This is something worth serving."
—Guest (32:41)

8. Faith, Doubt, and the Mystery of Free Will

• Knowles brings up concerns about foreknowledge: seeing the good path set before people and knowing all don’t reach their full potential.
• The guest acknowledges that everyone falls short, and reckons with the enduring mystery of God’s sovereignty and man's free will.
• The story analogy—without struggle, stories lack meaning—underscores the necessity of adversity and free will in the divine plan.

Notable Quotes:

“10,000 questions don’t make one doubt. Of course you have questions, but that doesn’t make one doubt.”
—Michael Knowles (33:34, citing St. John Henry Newman)

"God knew what kind of thing he was creating when he made us... there is maybe a better version of each of our lives, but he made us this way and wanted us this way. Is it somehow also true that this is actually the best? That’s a mystery I don’t know how to unravel."
—Guest (35:01)

Timestamps of Important Segments

• 02:01 — Guest’s first major vision: Jesus, chains, and deliverance
• 03:07 — Knowles on interpreting signs, not just activism
• 07:27–10:53 — Angelic vision of a woman’s suffering and death, the problem of evil
• 16:22 — Guest’s reflection on reconstructing faith after an atheistic phase
• 21:25–32:41 — The pivotal vision of Jesus at the youth conference, revelation of divine love
• 33:34 — Discussion of the enduring experience of faith, doubt, and questioning
• 35:01–37:37 — Wrestling with destiny, potential, and God’s will for every person

Tone and Approach

• The conversation is thoughtful, contemplative, and deeply personal—marked by candor about the mysteries of faith and the limits of human understanding.
• The guest openly describes doubts and emotional struggles, providing an authentic insight into the journey of belief.
• Michael Knowles’s tone is both pastoral and philosophical, challenging but empathetic, steering the discussion towards the deeper questions beneath surface phenomena.

Memorable Quotes

• "We're not the chief actors in salvation. We are recipients of grace, but we're not saving ourselves here." (Knowles, 03:07)
• "To doubt the reality that was behind that was impossible... Not really believing in myself, not believing in my own gift, but believing in God." (Guest, 33:47)
• "Even though it is true that there is maybe a better version of each of our lives, it is also true that he made us this way and wanted us this way." (Guest, 35:01)
• "If it serves that goodness, then I don't need to know all the details. I don't need to understand." (Guest, 32:41)

Summary

This episode offers a stirring testament to the transcendence, mystery, and overwhelming love at the heart of Christian mystical experience. Through personal visions and intellectual wrestling, the narrative weaves together questions of faith, doubt, suffering, and destiny, anchored in the conviction that divine love remains the true "interpretive compass." Knowles and his guest leave listeners with a resonant sense of awe and humility before mysteries that reason alone cannot solve.