Viral TIKTOK Atheist REACTION: Dr. Jeremiah Johnston

Summary

The Michael Knowles Show – “Viral TIKTOK Atheist REACTION: Dr. Jeremiah Johnston”

Date: March 21, 2026
Host: Michael Knowles (The Daily Wire)
Guest: Dr. Jeremiah Johnston

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Episode Overview

This episode of The Michael Knowles Show centers on dissecting viral “woke religion” TikToks, new atheist arguments, interfaith debates, and skepticism around Christian relics, all through the lens of conservative Christianity. With the return of Dr. Jeremiah Johnston—known to fans for his expertise on the Shroud of Turin—the discussion is rich with historical anecdotes, physical artifacts, philosophical responses to pop atheism, and a robust defense of Christian tradition.

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1. Artifact Show-and-Tell: The Physicality of Faith

Timestamps: 00:53 – 08:28

• Codex Vaticanus (00:53–02:08):
  • Dr. Johnston presents a facsimile of the Codex Vaticanus, one of the oldest Greek manuscripts of the Bible, demonstrating the textual stability of Scripture over millennia.
    • Quote:
      “It’s 98% text stable. Meaning the Bible you open at mass literally matches this with a 98% accuracy.” – Johnston (02:18)
• First Century Roman Dice (04:00):
  • Authentic Roman bone dice, illustrative of those used by executioners at Christ’s crucifixion (all four Gospels reference the casting of lots for Jesus’s garments).
    • Quote:
      “If we cannot believe that Jesus died and rose again based on the evidence outside the Bible, we shouldn’t believe that Caesar crossed the Rubicon.” – Johnston (05:20)
• Roman Needle and Crucifixion Nail (07:09):
  • Johnston allows Knowles to handle a first-century Roman needle (Matthew 19’s "eye of the needle" reference) and a genuine crucifixion nail—bent from repeated use—emphasizing the gritty, tangible realities behind Gospel narratives.
    • Quote:
      “Even the nails that put our Lord and Savior on the cross had probably been used on others that deserved death. And yet, he didn’t.” – Johnston (08:13)

Insight:
Johnston and Knowles underscore Christianity’s “incarnational” reality: faith tied to history, bodies, and objects—not just abstract philosophy.

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2. Reactions to Viral “Woke Religion” TikToks

Timestamps: 10:00 – 17:39

TikTok #1: “MAGA vs. Jesus”

Clip: Claims real Christians can’t support Trump or policies “hurting neighbors.”
Response:

• Both host and guest dismiss the argument as heretical eisegesis—reading ideology into scripture.
  • Quote:
    “What we just saw was a 101 heretical example of eisegesis…let me put a gay looking woke perspective and let me do heresy.” – Johnston (11:18)
  • Quote:
    “There's a special place in hell for people that do that and then they pervert the gospel.” – Johnston (11:51)

TikTok #2: “Christian Nationalists and Loving Neighbors”

Clip: Claims Jesus only commanded loving neighbors, not loving doctrine, churches, or even worshipping him.
Response:

• Knowles points out the false dichotomy:
  • Quote:
    “Before our Lord tells us to love our neighbor, the more important commandment that he gives is actually to love God above all things.” – Knowles (16:01)
  • Johnston highlights the seriousness of distorting scripture for political aims and calls out the “sacrilege.”
• Both stress Christianity’s deep tradition of hospital founding, charity, and defending life.

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3. Responding to New Atheist Arguments

Timestamps: 17:51 – 21:48

Clip: Atheist compares God to leprechauns, claims equivalent lack of evidence.

Response:

• Johnston denounces “New Atheism” as inferior to older, more rigorous forms of atheism:
  • Quote:
    “The evidence that we have for God is unimpeachable…It is a historical fact that Jesus rose from the grave on April 5, AD 33.” – Johnston (18:43)
• Knowles references Catholic teaching: God’s existence can be established by natural reason, citing St. Thomas Aquinas' five ways, and philosophical arguments.
  • Quote:
    “The mere existence of God can be known with certainty, strictly from human reason in light of the created world.” – Knowles (20:34)
• Johnston links much new atheism to personal trauma, noting emotional roots often underpin intellectual objections.

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4. Interfaith Hot Takes: Islam, Catholicism, Orthodox Christianity

Timestamps: 21:48 – 38:09

Islam and Morality

• Viral clip discussing when Islamic law permits consummation of marriage, including references to child marriage.
• Johnston confirms traditional Islamic texts endorse the controversial practices noted in the clip.
  • Quote:
    “Everything he just said is endorsed by the Islamic trilogy…there are four specific ayahs that actually endorse what he just said in the Quran.” – Johnston (22:43)
• Knowles and Johnston discuss Islam’s historical relationship with Christianity, suggesting it as a Christian “heresy” that evolved into a rival faith.

Catholic Exclusivity and Church Unity

• TikTok debate: “Only Catholics go to Heaven?”
• Discussion quickly expands to extra ecclesiam nulla salus (“outside the church there is no salvation”), the visible church, and catechism nuances.
  • Quote:
    “One of the calls of the Church is that the Church be unified…So there is a teaching which is extra ecclesiam nulla salus.” – Knowles (29:16)
• Johnston highlights early Church councils and unity, while gently affirming a gospel of faith (Romans 10:9) that can transcend denominational boundaries.

Eastern Orthodoxy and Catholicism

• Orthodox TikToker describes theological differences.
• Johnston praises Orthodox liturgy and manuscript preservation, but critiques localism and lack of unified theology.
  • Quote:
    “Seven reasons I’m not Greek Orthodox…the main one is they don’t have any theology. They don’t agree with each other.” – Johnston (33:31)
  • Also calls out Orthodox churches that have become state instruments and sometimes persecute non-Orthodox Christians.
• Knowles and Johnston both reflect on ecumenical councils, political pressures, and the perennial Christian yearning for unity:
  • Quote:
    “Our Lord wants unity, I think, among the churches.” – Knowles (37:31)
  • Together, they reiterate: “We believe in one holy, Catholic, and Apostolic Church.” (38:05)

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5. The Shroud of Turin: Skepticism and Counter-Argument

Timestamps: 38:14 – 42:28

• Viral skeptic video claims Shroud is medieval, just painted cloth.
• Johnston refutes point-by-point with new research:
  • Cites modern blood analysis (type AB, same as documented on relics), recent dating using waxes and x-ray scattering to establish 2,000-year-old origin.
  • Reference to mathematical analysis:
    “There is a 1 in 200 billion chance it’s anyone other than Jesus from the Bible.” – Johnston (40:39)
  • Shows Knowles a solidus coin bearing Christ’s image centuries before the supposed medieval creation of the Shroud.
• Quote:
  “The Shroud is the greatest gospel evangelism tool I’ve ever seen.” – Johnston (41:54)

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6. Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Physical Faith:
  “Christianity is an incarnational faith. So for me, when I hold the dice... it speaks to the fact that, you know, we’re soul, we’re spirit and body.” – Knowles (06:17)
• On Heretical Preaching:
  “That person is committing spiritual adultery right now. They are an apostate and they are committing spiritual adultery. They should have a big A on their…” – Johnston (12:01)
• On New Atheism:
  “Everything he said is a flaw. The evidence that we have for God is unimpeachable.” – Johnston (18:43)
• On Unity:
  “When we recite the Creed…we believe in one holy, Catholic, and Apostolic Church.” – Knowles/Johnston (38:05–08)
• On the Shroud:
  “So much has happened since we talked about the Shroud last time…I want you to hold something cool.” – Johnston (41:00)

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7. Overall Tone and Takeaways

• Spirited, often polemical, blending academic conviction with confident apologetics.
• Critical of “sound bite theology,” urging deeper engagement with source material, history, and tradition.
• Conversational and sometimes humorous, but unwavering in challenging viral misrepresentations of Christianity, atheism, and religious history.

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8. Key Segment Timestamps (Highlights)

• Artifact Show-and-Tell: 00:53 – 08:28
• “Woke Religion” TikToks: 10:00 – 17:39
• New Atheist Arguments: 17:51 – 21:48
• Islam & Morality: 21:48 – 25:10
• Catholic vs Protestant vs Orthodox: 27:13 – 38:09
• Shroud of Turin Skepticism: 38:14 – 42:28

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For listeners seeking robust Christian apologetics, historical artifact nerdery, and quick-witted counters to viral internet religion, this episode is a direct, unapologetic feast.

Transcript

[Podcast Host]

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[Interjector/Commentator]

Gay crackhead.

[Michael Knowles]

I am very, very pleased to be joined once again by one of the great guests we've ever had on our shows, Jeremiah Johnson, who is famous in the Michael Knowles show universe for his excellent explication of the Shroud of Turin. And so if you haven't seen it yet, if you're one of the few people who hasn't seen that yet, you have to go. Someone stopped me in the street the other day about this Jeremiah Johnston interview with Shroud of Turin. So anyway, he's back. We are going to analyze with Jeremiah's great expertise woke religion tiktoks. But before we get to that very, very important work, you've brought some goodies.

[Jeremiah Johnston]

I have.

[Michael Knowles]

What have you brought?

[Jeremiah Johnston]

All the way from Rome. I need you to hold Codex Vaticanus B. I want you to hold.

[Michael Knowles]

Am I able to hold? Will I physically hold it?

[Jeremiah Johnston]

It is £16. I want you to open it like you're opening your Bible.

[Michael Knowles]

Wow.

[Jeremiah Johnston]

This is. This is a facsimile that was issued by Pope John Paul II. He signed it Christmas Day 1999. These are very hard to come by.

[Michael Knowles]

So this is.

[Jeremiah Johnston]

It is an exact facsimile. 739 leaves. This is the entire Greek Bible, Michael.

[Michael Knowles]

So the Codex, the Codex Vaticanus, for people who don't know, is one of the oldest Greek manuscripts of the Bible. If not the oldest, it might be the single oldest.

[Jeremiah Johnston]

This is five years after the Council of Nicaea. 325. So I dated to 330. Remember, my area of expertise is paleography and codicology. Yeah, the fascination that there is no difference, truly. It's 98% text stable. Meaning the Bible you open at mass literally matches this with a 98% accuracy.

[Michael Knowles]

When I was an atheist, I used to say to Christians, I say, well, no, look, how do we even know? I mean, it's been so many years, so many translations. How do we really know what you're reading has nothing to do perhaps with. But then I actually looked into it. No, it's pretty much the Exact same thing.

[Jeremiah Johnston]

Exactly. Literally.

[Michael Knowles]

You can't get this on Amazon.

[Jeremiah Johnston]

You can't. Or ebay.

[Michael Knowles]

No.

[Jeremiah Johnston]

And you know I'd have to kill you if I told you I got it.

[Michael Knowles]

Yeah, I know, I know. What sort of underground networks? At the Vatican? Are you kidding?

[Jeremiah Johnston]

I can't confirm or deny, but I'm with the brotherhood.

[Michael Knowles]

This is magnificent. I love that phrase, that the. The nearest relative to Christianity is archaeology. Archaeology.

[Jeremiah Johnston]

Evidence.

[Michael Knowles]

I've often described it to people. They say, well, how do you distinguish Christianity from other religions? I say other religions really begin in poetry or philosophy Or a crazy vision. Or a crazy vision. But in terms of literary genres, Christianity begins in journalism because the Bible is journalistic accounts.

[Jeremiah Johnston]

It's a text based religion.

[Michael Knowles]

That's amazing. Okay, this is unbelievable. What else do we have?

[Jeremiah Johnston]

Okay, Michael brother, I need you to hold something. I don't know if you remember, but all four gospels. First tell me what you're holding.

[Michael Knowles]

I'm holding a pair of dice.

[Jeremiah Johnston]

A pair of dice. Now these are not any dice. These are 1st century Roman dice made of.

[Michael Knowles]

This is the real thing.

[Jeremiah Johnston]

I'm not saying they're the ones that were gambled in front of Jesus. Yes, but these are two. They're made of bone.

[Michael Knowles]

What I'm saying, this is not a recreation.

[Jeremiah Johnston]

No, this is an artifact. Yeah, this is. I just acquired this again through my antiquities dealer. You can see the punched. So these are made of bone. All four gospels record the fact that the executioners were so desensitized to the fact that the author of life is dying before them and they begin to gamble for his clothes. These are made of bone. They're stamped Romans love to gamble. So tell me what you're thinking right now. Have you ever held first century Roman dice?

[Michael Knowles]

And do you know what's. I love dice. I actually, I don't want to tell tales out of school. My stepbrother and I, we would roll ceelo at bars. Oh yeah, I love it. We'd roll dice for every.

[Jeremiah Johnston]

This puts you in the world of Jesus though.

[Michael Knowles]

What's really striking to me is that dice 2,000 years ago, look, they're a little smaller, otherwise they look exactly the same.

[Jeremiah Johnston]

And they're made of bone.

[Michael Knowles]

And they're made of bone.

[Jeremiah Johnston]

We were in the drive thru and one of my triplets said, dad, they stink really bad. I was like, son, they're 2,000 years old. Yeah, that'll do it.

[Michael Knowles]

Yeah. Can I?

[Jeremiah Johnston]

Yes, please. Yeah, absolutely.

[Michael Knowles]

Won't roll them too? No, I rolled nine.

[Jeremiah Johnston]

Yeah, a nine. There we go.

[Michael Knowles]

There you go. Three to the third.

[Jeremiah Johnston]

So there it is. So these are the kind of artifacts that I bring out in the Jesus discoveries because I want people to know that if we cannot believe that Jesus died and rose again based on the evidence outside the Bible, we shouldn't believe that Caesar crossed the Rubicon. Yeah, the evidence is that strong.

[Michael Knowles]

Right.

[Jeremiah Johnston]

And there's pictures throughout. This was a labor of love doing this book because there's photographs throughout it. I got all the permissions from all the archaeologists that help us really understand how these bring us closer to Jesus. That's the whole point. It's not to be smarter. I wanted the book to bring like, do you feel closer to Jesus now that you've held dice?

[Michael Knowles]

Right. I see.

[Jeremiah Johnston]

And it's like, wow.

[Michael Knowles]

We were talking a little bit earlier because I've had a lot of conversations with my friends about this. A friend of mine has given me quite a number of holy relics, first class relics. So the Bone of Martyrs or, you know, amazing. And it's funny, I was telling a Christian friend of mine, I mentioned this to him and he recoiled. He said, oh, I don't really like. I don't like the word.

[Interjector/Commentator]

Why?

[Michael Knowles]

There is a certain strain that has been around since antiquity of iconoclast or a kind of Christianity that says, no, no, we should only focus on spiritual things, not physical things. And I get it, you don't want to be idolatrous in any way. But, you know, Christianity is an incarnational faith. So for me, when I hold the dice, when I examine whatever, even, you know, even facsimile of this 1700 year old Bible, it speaks to the fact that, you know, we're soul, we're spirit and body.

[Jeremiah Johnston]

That's right.

[Michael Knowles]

I can feel, you know, like people touched the hem of Christ's garment and were healed.

[Jeremiah Johnston]

That's right, yeah.

[Michael Knowles]

Okay. What else do we have?

[Jeremiah Johnston]

I know. I want you to hold this. Jesus in Matthew 19 says, it's easier for a rich man to go through the eye of a needle.

[Michael Knowles]

A camel to go through the eye.

[Jeremiah Johnston]

Yeah. It's easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle. Thank you. Than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of heaven. You're holding a Roman needle and you can imagine him holding that. That is a first century Roman needle. That is not a replica. I got one more quick one.

[Michael Knowles]

Okay.

[Jeremiah Johnston]

All right, I need you to hold. Now this is brand new. I did not have this for Michael. Ann, I need you to hold an actual crucifixion. Now you Held a replica before this was unearthed in Jerusalem. I know it's first century because of the square shaft. Put it against your wrist and just get the feel. So. And I want to ask you a question. Do you notice how it's bent?

[Theologian/Christian Commentator]

Yeah.

[Michael Knowles]

Yeah.

[Jeremiah Johnston]

It's bent because it was used so many times. They would reuse crucifixion nails on all of their prisoners. So can you imagine? There's DNA on this. There's rust. And the reason that it's bent, Michael, is they would want to minimize movement but maximize torment. So they would adjust the nails while the victim was being crucified. Here's the faith lesson. Even the nails that put our Lord and Savior on the cross had probably been used on others that deserved death. And yet he didn't.

[Michael Knowles]

It never occurred to me, you know, all of the indignity of the cross.

[Jeremiah Johnston]

Right. And to think which is meant to. A used nail.

[Michael Knowles]

A used nail.

[Jeremiah Johnston]

Four of them.

[Michael Knowles]

You somehow always have the greatest goodie bag. I have what you gave me, the man on the Shroud. I have that displayed in my office. I see that whenever I walk into my office. There's a lot more to say first,

[Interjector/Commentator]

though, go to hallow.com knowles K N A W L E S We're deep

[Michael Knowles]

in Lent, walking steadily toward Holy Week,

[Interjector/Commentator]

the cross and the resurrection.

[Michael Knowles]

This is not a season for the half hearted.

[Interjector/Commentator]

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[Michael Knowles]

Download Hallow today. I love Hallow. It's a wonderful app.

[Interjector/Commentator]

Spend intentional time in prayer and meditate on God's love for you. You can get three months [e-mail] knowles wow.

[Jeremiah Johnston]

We got more though, to show.

[Michael Knowles]

Okay. All right. So without further ado.

[Jeremiah Johnston]

Yes.

[Michael Knowles]

I want to just talk about this all day.

[Jeremiah Johnston]

Yeah.

[Michael Knowles]

Let's engage others Here specifically heretics through Woke TikToks.

[MAGA Critic]

Maga vs Jesus Round 16 Maga says real Christians support Trump. But the Bible says those who say they love God but hate their neighbor are lying. You cannot follow Jesus Christ while actively supporting politicians or policies that hurt your neighbor, like cutting their food aid or their healthcare.

[Jeremiah Johnston]

Absolutely wrong.

[MAGA Critic]

Maga says we must protect Christian power. But the Bible says my power is made perfect in weakness. Christianity isn't about accumulating power. That's a fundamental misunderstanding of the religion. Instead, what the gospel is about is creating peace through the presence of justice. Besides, Christian power is really just about propping up people who are already wealthy and powerful, usually straight white men. Magus says destroy the people who oppose us. But Jesus says love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you.

[Michael Knowles]

More than the error is the cringe that bothers me. It's so powerfully lame. But would you like to take any particular aspect of his argument?

[Jeremiah Johnston]

First, I'm Maga, I've never said any

[Michael Knowles]

of those things that he claims every premise is wrong.

[Jeremiah Johnston]

Secondly, what we just saw was a 101 heretical example of doing what's called eisegesis. Let me take a text out of context, let me put a gay looking woke perspective on it and let me do heresy.

[Michael Knowles]

Son, have you been reading heresy recently?

[Atheist]

Unacceptable.

[Jeremiah Johnston]

Jesus said, I've come to bring the sword. He said that to follow him was to hate your mother. Luke 14. You've got to hate, which is a Greek idiom of preference, your mother, your father, your brother, sister. Meaning you've got to put me first. And this is what I'm tired of. I am tired of people that twist scripture. There's a special place in hell for people that do that and then they pervert the gospel. It is beyond the pale that anyone would actually listen to that. But unfortunately so many people listen to that kind of terrible preaching. That person is committing spiritual adultery right now. They are an apostate and they are committing spiritual adultery. They should have a big A on their.

[Michael Knowles]

Yeah, even the first one that came to mind was the first or second example where he's, you know, having this imaginary conversation with a Maga person that doesn't really resemble a real maga person. But then he says, well, you can't be a Christian when you're harming your neighbors. And so the Republicans who want to cut food stamps, which they don't even actually want to do that.

[Jeremiah Johnston]

Exactly.

[Michael Knowles]

But let's just say you can make an argument to reform welfare programs, but you Say, okay man, but your side is calling for the wholesale slaughter of babies in the womb, which is not only.

[Jeremiah Johnston]

And to be euthanized, by the way.

[Michael Knowles]

Yeah, that's right. And to be euthanized. Elderly people, sick people, even young people. And you know, not only can you point to much of scripture that would argue against that, but also we just know because Christianity has a lot of archaeological evidence and documentary evidence. We know that abortion has been explicitly prohibited by the church since the apostolic age, at least the dedoce.

[Jeremiah Johnston]

The dedocay. Yeah, second century, if not earlier. And again, what is ridiculous about this is to use scripture, this person's demonic, to use scripture to try to say that Christianity doesn't care about people. Christianity invented hospitals. Do you know if you and I were sick in the first century, we'd go to the temple of the Asclepius have to pay for healing. And Jesus healed people for free. And guess what? Modern health care comes out of the cut and thrust of the Christian movement.

[Michael Knowles]

Yeah. In fact, the word hospital. Yes, we get the nights hospitaller.

[Jeremiah Johnston]

I don't know if you know this. I was just at WEF at the World Economic Forum speaking in Davos. I don't know if you knew that.

[Michael Knowles]

Speaking of demons, do we have to

[Jeremiah Johnston]

brush a year old out there? Yes, in Jesus name. And I made it clear to all those individuals the event horizon of free enterprise, of forgiving debts, loving your neighbor, being generous. That event horizon comes from one moment. And I said, it's not Marxism, it's not socialism, it's not wokeism. You can see me say this. It's the resurrection of Jesus Christ in this amazing syndicate called the Church.

[Michael Knowles]

I'm sure you had raucous applause world economics.

[Jeremiah Johnston]

Oh, I had people staring at me cross eyed. Who is this we've never heard of?

[Michael Knowles]

What have you to do with us?

[Jeremiah Johnston]

That's my response.

[Michael Knowles]

Okay, next one.

[Theologian/Christian Commentator]

Christian nationalists walk around a mouthful of scripture.

[Michael Knowles]

Oh my goodness.

[Theologian/Christian Commentator]

Don't tell me what you believe. Show me how you treat other people and I'll tell you what you believe. Jesus didn't tell us to love our churches. He didn't tell us to love our doctrines and our creeds. He didn't even tell us to love our scriptures. He told us to love our neighbors. And there was no exception to that commandment. Love thy neighbor regardless of race, class, gender, sexual orientation or immigration status. One of my favorite theologians, Barbara Brown Taylor, once wrote, the only clear line I draw these days is when my religion tries to come between me and my neighbor, I will choose my neighbor. Jesus never commanded me to love my religion.

[Michael Knowles]

He literally did.

[Theologian/Christian Commentator]

But, yeah, you know what's interesting? Not once in the entire Bible does Jesus ask us to worship him.

[Michael Knowles]

Oh, my goodness.

[Theologian/Christian Commentator]

All he asks is that we follow him.

[Islamic Apologist]

Love.

[Michael Knowles]

He loves. Okay, just one before you go off. He says, you know, Jesus told us to love our neighbors. He doesn't tell us anything about loving our religion. Religion, to quote our good friend St. Thomas Aquinas, is a habit of virtue that inclines the will to give to God what he deserves.

[Jeremiah Johnston]

That's right.

[Michael Knowles]

And before our Lord tells us to love our neighbor, the more important commandment that he gives is actually to love God above all things.

[Jeremiah Johnston]

Jesus replied, love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.

[Michael Knowles]

The line he uses is a clever political line. My opponents have a mouth full of scripture and a heart full of hate. And yet it's a good turn of phrase. But I think it applies much more to him than to his opponents. This guy. I guess you would have to. You look at all the things he promotes using scripture so sacrilegiously. He promotes slaughtering infants, mutilating little kids. He refers to God as lgbt. Awful sorts of sacrilege and blasphemy. And I guess the question I would have to say is, when you hear what he says and stands for, does James Tallarico sound more like Christ or the Antichrist?

[Jeremiah Johnston]

The Antichrist.

[Michael Knowles]

It's not even close.

[Jeremiah Johnston]

And I want Ames. I would debate him any place, anytime, any day of the week with two hands tied behind my back, blindfolded because he twists scripture. I want to say something to everyone watching. This is a fact.

[Michael Knowles]

He.

[Jeremiah Johnston]

You can look this up with Open Doors, which is an international Religious freedom Network President. Donald J. Trump is the most pro religious freedom president of all time. Yeah. Out of any sitting president. Nobody has been for more. And that's not just Christianity. That's religious freedom. He spoke at the UN when no other sitting president would. And my pastor, Jack Graham, sits on the Religious Freedom Commission there in Texas. And I can tell you this. Everything that that man just said is false.

[Michael Knowles]

That's kind of like the line of Joe Pesci and my cousin. Everything that guy just said is bs. I agree. I agree. Next one. Are you an atheist?

[Atheist]

For all practical purposes, yes. Nobody can actually say for certain that anything doesn't exist. But I'm an atheist in the same way as I'm an. A leprechaunist and an. A fairyist and an apic Unicornist.

[Michael Knowles]

So you're not 100% sure God doesn't

[Atheist]

exist, but you're sure enough to make it? Practically, I'm as sure as you are sure that fairies and leprechauns don't exist.

[Michael Knowles]

And do you see an equivalence between the idea of God and the idea

[Atheist]

of a fairy and a leprechaun? The evidence for both is equally poor.

[Michael Knowles]

Oh my Gosh, this was 20 years ago. This was what passed in the. Not among intellectuals, but among kind of polite yuppie society. This was what the smart people believed.

[Jeremiah Johnston]

Right?

[Michael Knowles]

And I tell you, it got me when I was a teenager. This kind of stuff really got me. It took me away from the Church, helped take me away from the church for 10 years. Is there a flaw in his argument

[Jeremiah Johnston]

that was at the height of what was called New Atheism, the four horsemen of the new atheist movement. Everything he said is a flaw. The evidence that we have for God is unimpeachable. The evidence that we have for the resurrection of Jesus Christ, as we've already said, is unimpeachable. It is a historical fact that Jesus rose from the grave on April 5, AD 33. We know that date on with certainty. The resurrection and the crucifixion are the best established fact of the ancient world. So for him to compare God and the evidence for God with the tooth fairy or leprechauns, the thing that drives

[Michael Knowles]

me crazy because Richard Dawkins is supposed to be intelligent and is, I guess, educated in his field of study, which

[Jeremiah Johnston]

is not biblical studies.

[Michael Knowles]

No, no, it's evolutionary biology topic for another time. But it just that statement, well, I don't believe in God because you don't believe in leprechauns, which is Reddit tier fedora tipping atheism. I remember Alvin Plantinga, the Calvinist philosopher. He was asked what he thought of the new atheists. He said, I think they're far inferior to the old atheists, like Bertrand Russell. At least Bertrand Russell was somewhat logical. And Bertrand Russell said he couldn't find a flaw in the ontological argument for God. What Dawkins seems blithely unaware of is that one, this question of the supposed tension between faith and reason is one that has been taken up over the centuries and that the arguments for God's existence generally rest on natural reason. So much so that the Catholic Church declares the First Vatican Council that the existence of God, not necessarily the resurrection, the, the person of Christ, the Trinity, the mysteries, but the mere existence of God can be known with certainty. Strictly from human reason in light of the created world.

[Jeremiah Johnston]

Right.

[Michael Knowles]

You know, St. Thomas Aquinas famously has his five ways. One his most famous and his favorite one rests on empirical evidence observing change and motion in the world. But there are many, many other arguments.

[Jeremiah Johnston]

And you just think teleological argument, the

[Michael Knowles]

ontological argument, all of it.

[Jeremiah Johnston]

Cosmology, purpose, meaning. And I want to say something, my heart does go out to Richard. I have a book called Unimaginable what the World Would be like without Christianity. In part two, I studied these atheists and without getting into terrible detail, he had some serious childhood trauma. Serious. And when you look at the new atheists, most of them have broken relationships with their dads.

[Michael Knowles]

Well, you know, Hitchens was public about this. I mean his mother called him, he missed the call and then she stuck her head in an oven.

[Jeremiah Johnston]

And they same with Bart Ehrman. A problem of an experience of evil, suffering and pain. So I don't want you to think that he doesn't believe in God for an intellectual reason. It's an emotional reason.

[Michael Knowles]

Well, that's a good point. Just crazy to say, you know. Well, you know, I just think. No proof of it. You're not even. You're putting yourself out there as the great debunker of Christianity. You're not engaging with the most basic arguments of the question that is supposedly at hand. Okay, next one.

[Islamic Apologist]

When there are signs of physical maturity, it becomes permissible for the husband in Islamic law to have marital relationships or consummate the relation with his bride. And this is the example of the Prophet, peace be upon him.

[Michael Knowles]

Do you know what precocious puberty is?

[Islamic Apologist]

Starting puberty unusually early.

[Podcast Host]

Is there anything in Islam that prevents you from. From a man marrying a five year old that started precocious puberty?

[Islamic Apologist]

You can arrange a marriage even as an infant, but that doesn't mean that sex is allowed.

[Podcast Host]

Could a man have a marriage to a five year old consummated if she started precocious puberty?

[Islamic Apologist]

If she starts showing signs of physical maturity, then yes, that's permissible. As I said before, if there are signs of. So this is something that becomes biologically impossible because proclamation shows it goes as

[Podcast Host]

as far early as 11 months.

[Islamic Apologist]

Well, that's something that the parents would not see. The thing about Islamic marriage is that parents are involved at these ages.

[Jeremiah Johnston]

Yikes. Everything I've read the Quran so you don't have to. By the way, everything he just said is endorsed by the Islamic trilogy, which of course is the Quran, Sira, Sunnah, Hadith and There are four specific ayahs that actually endorse what he just said in the Quran. So I want to make sure that people understand this is not an aberrant form of Islam. If they actually read the Koran, they would see that sex slavery is not a bad thing.

[Michael Knowles]

It's funny because I remember I read the Quran at 14. I don't think I made it all the way through, but I read a lot of it at 14 because everyone at the time, this was 2004, was saying that Islam is a religion of peace.

[Jeremiah Johnston]

And I said, you know, that means submission. Yeah.

[Michael Knowles]

Just looking around the world, I said, that doesn't. I don't really buy that. So let me read it. And I was disabused of that popular misconception. But I read it and then I read a little bit about the origins of Islam. And what's interesting about it is it clearly begins as a Christian heresy. It seems to be heavily associated with various ancient heresies, including Nestorianism. Yes. And you have this thought especially reading my main man Dante. Dante curiously puts Mohammed with the schismatics.

[Jeremiah Johnston]

Yes.

[Michael Knowles]

As if Islam is just a schism from a breakoff of Christianity, which I kind of think it is. And you think, what if instead of encountering heretical monks or encountering heretical versions of Christianity around the Arabian world, what if Muhammad had been exposed to an orthodox guy, a guy who really believed the real religion? He could have been, it's, you know, all hypothetical, but he could. You could have a world in which Muhammad was a great figure of Christianity, where Arabia was Christian, where Islam didn't exist. And it could have happened, you know, woulda, coulda, should have. But it is amazing sometimes people to tie it all back around to these ideas, they'll say, you know, it's so crazy. In the Middle Ages or antiquity, the church was so harsh on the heretics. You know, you read Thomas Aquinas on the heretics. It was pretty tough.

[Jeremiah Johnston]

Well, so was Jude. He had 36 descriptors for him in the book of Jude.

[Michael Knowles]

Great point. Why? It's just, you know, in our free speech kind of era, we say, what's so bad about these bad ideas flowing around? Well, the fruit of a bad idea

[Jeremiah Johnston]

is that bad ideas have body counts.

[Michael Knowles]

They have, but wow.

[Jeremiah Johnston]

And Islam. I would encourage people to check out my debate with Eniat Bangawalu, who is publicly supportive of Osama bin Laden after 9 11, and Adnan Rashid, a hadith scholar. And I just mopped the floor with them because all I did was Keep quoting the Quran back to them. What they're saying the kepher. You and I are the kepher. We're the infidel. And you can do anything you want to the infidel. And if you go inside the Dome of the Rock, you will see incised on the ceiling of the Dome of the Rock. They believe that Islam is the culmination of Judaism and Christianity.

[Michael Knowles]

Right, right. Period. Yeah. And it's curious too, because the Jews are famous for. Infamous for denying the resurrection. Everybody knows that. But the Muslims deny the crucifixion.

[Jeremiah Johnston]

Surah 4 Aya 157.

[Michael Knowles]

They crucified him not.

[Jeremiah Johnston]

They crucified him not.

[Michael Knowles]

And then I think of. I think it's Philippians 3:18. I might be getting it. I'm Catholic, so we don't do chapter and verse. That one. That's okay. But I think it's somewhere around there where St. Paul writes. He says there are many who are walking now, and I tell you, even weeping, who deny the cross of Christ.

[Jeremiah Johnston]

That's right.

[Michael Knowles]

It's very interesting, you know. Yeah. Denying the resurrection is one thing bad in itself, but to deny the crucifixion, an error in some ways worse because it's on the cross in which Christ

[Jeremiah Johnston]

conquered death and it flies in the face of all the evidence. I mean, I know atheists who tell you the best established fact of the ancient world is Jesus death by Roman crucifixion. Nisan 14, AD 33. I'm going to say it till I'm blue in the face. It's April 3rd. Which incidentally, this year on Good Friday is April 3rd, the very day that he was crucified in AD 33.

[Michael Knowles]

That's ominous. There are a lot of other signs out there. I'm sort of waiting for the trumpets. Yes, yes. Okay.

[Jeremiah Johnston]

But I want people to know this is not an aberrant. This is in. This is a textbook religion. Islam is the greatest threat to Christianity around the world. And they have grand designs and they have the money to pay for it.

[Michael Knowles]

Not good. Plus a change plus Le Mem shows this has been going on for about 1400 years. Next one.

[Catholic Apologist]

If you are Protestant, atheist, Muslim, or any religion that is not Roman Catholicism, you will not go to heaven.

[Skeptic/Debunker]

Oh, okay. According to who? I must have missed that part of

[Catholic Apologist]

the Bible in 1302. Pope Boniface VIII.

[Jeremiah Johnston]

Ah, the Pope Pope.

[Skeptic/Debunker]

Okay. So your Pope that you claim is

[Michael Knowles]

Boniface is a controversial one.

[Skeptic/Debunker]

Is the only way to salvation.

[Podcast Host]

Okay.

[Catholic Apologist]

An exact message is then reaffirmed by Pope Eugene iv.

[Skeptic/Debunker]

Oh, it's reaffirmed by another Pope.

[Jeremiah Johnston]

Okay.

[Skeptic/Debunker]

Oh, must be true.

[Catholic Apologist]

There is a tiny theological loophole that might change that.

[Skeptic/Debunker]

Oh, cool, there's a loophole. Is it also in the Bible?

[Catholic Apologist]

According to Catechism 847 and Lumen Gentium 16.

[Skeptic/Debunker]

Wait, real quick, Noah. Why should we believe you in the Catholic Church?

[Catholic Apologist]

Have 2000 years of church history to back up our theology.

[Skeptic/Debunker]

So you say 2000 years validates yalls view, but the Roman Catholic Church today is in the same church as before. And didn't Paul have to write letters to the early church because they were getting corrupted? Y' all submit to Jesus Christ.

[Carvana Advertiser]

Amen.

[Michael Knowles]

Okay, well, we might. We might have. I actually don't know that we actually have different views on this. The claims that the debunker is making are. He's getting at stuff, which is that the early Church, they all disagreed. Paul had to write and correct them. And actually, what I love about the apparent dispute between Paul and Peter in Acts, what I love about it is Paul is much more of a theologian than Peter.

[Jeremiah Johnston]

Right.

[Michael Knowles]

Paul is in many ways, he's like, more the active player than Peter is. And yet he brings these questions to Peter because, you know, the role of the Pope is misunderstood. The Pope is not some wizard. No, the Pope is not necessarily. We've had good theologians.

[Jeremiah Johnston]

Ratzinger, Pope Benedict, University of Regensburg.

[Michael Knowles]

Yes, we've had very good theologians, but not always. Sometimes the Pope is just a guy

[Jeremiah Johnston]

who's a White Sox fan.

[Michael Knowles]

Who's a White Sox fan. Yes. Sometimes the Pope is a guy who has to keep things together. There's a famous phrase attributed to Augustine which derives from his teaching, though he didn't literally say this, which is, rome has spoken.

[Interjector/Commentator]

The matter is settled.

[Michael Knowles]

But one of the calls of the Church is that the Church be unified. You know, it's just like we have ecumenical councils. So there is a teaching which is extra ecclesiam nulla salus. Outside of the Church, there's no salvation, which in principle, I think every Christian would agree with, because the Church is the mystical body of Christ.

[Jeremiah Johnston]

Right.

[Michael Knowles]

And some would kind of disagree over the nature of the body. And to the point of the Catholic, in the first video, he says, well, because of the Second Vatican Council, there is an understanding that basically not all of the Protestants are necessarily damned to hell or the Eastern Orthodox. That's because of goodwill, because of all sorts of reasons. So the debunkers problem is the one that gives me issue here, because he's blithely writing off 2000 years of church history.

[Jeremiah Johnston]

Absolutely.

[Michael Knowles]

And a visible church.

[Jeremiah Johnston]

I mean, hello.

[Michael Knowles]

Yeah. In favor of a kind of pure private judgment of scripture that I think is Protestantism gone much too far?

[Jeremiah Johnston]

Absolutely, without a doubt. And it's. And it's where many people are, especially in the online church age. They're too godly to be part of a church. Remember, no perfect church exists. And I want to remind people, Acts 11 and Acts 15, two Jerusalem councils were held as early as the book of Acts and Brother James of Jesus hosted them. There were disagreements, healthy disagreements. What is the gospel? Oh, we need to take care of the widows and the poor. That's a big thing. We need to flee sexual immorality. So these kind of healthy debates are great. But Michael, the reason I love you and your show is you actually get beyond the sound bites and you get into substance. We cannot be educated by that. We cannot be educated by a sound bite. We believe in the unified church and the gospel says in Romans 10:9. My nine year old triplets just memorized this. If you believe in your heart that Jesus rose from the dead and you proclaim that Jesus is Lord, you will be saved. So that's if you're a Catholic, if you're an Eastern Orthodox, if you are a Protestant, if you are an atheist. Right now, hold on.

[Michael Knowles]

You want to let the Eastern Orthodox in?

[Jeremiah Johnston]

Yes, absolutely. Romans 10:9. Romans 10:9. I believe there are believers in all of the. I believe in the unified church, in the power of the gospel.

[Michael Knowles]

There's a very interesting conversation to be had on the sacramental aspect.

[Jeremiah Johnston]

Absolutely.

[Michael Knowles]

And you, you being a Protestant, have maybe more than any Protestant friend of mine, and I have many of them who yell at me all the time. But you have a keen appreciation 100% of the sacramental physical.

[Jeremiah Johnston]

Yes. Because it's an act of worship and it brings you close to Jesus and you understand it in its context. Yeah.

[Michael Knowles]

Okay, that's all right. Let's see if those tiktokers want to react to our reaction to the guy's reaction to the first reaction.

[Jeremiah Johnston]

Excellent. What is the difference between Orthodox and Catholicism?

[Eastern Orthodox Representative]

So theologically there are a number of differences, but I'll tell you why we claim to be the original church. We were one church until the year 1054 where the great schism took place. And of course, for a couple hundred years before that, things had started to split up a little bit. The Roman Catholic Church historically can claim to be part of that original church, but theologically they changed. In the Roman Catholic Church, they've changed one thing that informs infallibility of the Pope. We don't believe that the Pope is infallible. We believe that when Christ spoke to Peter and said, I give you the keys to the kingdom of heaven, he was actually talking to all the disciples who are his successors. And we, the clergy of the Orthodox Church, are the successors of the apostles through ordination. You might think ordination wasn't in the Bible, but it was. It's called in Greek heritonia, which means the laying on of hands. And that's how you see it.

[Michael Knowles]

Okay. I thought he was hitting Philio.

[Jeremiah Johnston]

Yeah, but he did. Proceeding from the Father and the Son. Okay, can I take this one for a second, Michael? So Eastern Orthodox. And again, there are two things I appreciate about Eastern Orthodox, and there are seven reasons I'm not an Eastern Orthodox. I actually just gave a talk on this on YouTube. I love their churches. They're cruciformed, they're worshipful. And I love the fact that one third of our 5,800 Greek New Testament fragments are protected right now by the Greek Orthodox Church in many persecuted lands. Mount Athos alone has over a thousand Greek manuscripts. And so let me say that for any Eastern Orthodox, Greek Orthodox who's watching, I appreciate that.

[Michael Knowles]

Here comes the but.

[Jeremiah Johnston]

But.

[Michael Knowles]

Here's the but.

[Jeremiah Johnston]

There's actually seven reasons I'm not a Greek Orthodox. But the main one is they don't have any theology. They don't agree with each other. It all goes back to what their local bishop. And do you know that the Eastern Orthodox Church, Michael, has become one of the greatest persecutors of Christians in the world. Are you aware of this?

[Michael Knowles]

I'm not.

[Jeremiah Johnston]

Because it becomes a state religion.

[Theologian/Christian Commentator]

Yeah.

[Jeremiah Johnston]

So you go to places like we have ministries where we go to Romania and we go to other places where they believe. You don't even have to have an act of faith to be an Eastern Orthodox. I could baptize you Eastern Orthodox. If we live in Romania, you never have to express faith in Jesus of any kind. And you're Greek Orthodox and you're good. So then we're going to persecute anyone who tries to give you the gospel, even imprison you for trying to lead you to personal relationship. That is factual. So they've gone from being persecuted themselves. You know, you look at the Bolshevik Revolution, you look at all of it, and now they're one of the greatest persecutors of non Eastern Orthodox Christians. And that's one of the biggest reasons I'm not an Eastern Orthodox.

[Michael Knowles]

Yeah.

[Jeremiah Johnston]

It's funny because beyond the fact they have no theology that's unified. Yeah.

[Michael Knowles]

This is one of the issues. I got in trouble recently because. You did. I did. I know occasionally I do. And I got in trouble because I made this claim. I said, you know, the Eastern Orthodox, they flirted with every heresy. And I did. But it was actually misinterpreted because as much as I would like to be chauvinistic in my religious views and kind of mock the Eastern Orthodox, I really have a great deal of respect for Orthodox.

[Jeremiah Johnston]

Absolutely.

[Michael Knowles]

I love. The liturgy is great. I love the icons.

[Jeremiah Johnston]

I have many I don't love. They don't have chairs in their churches.

[Michael Knowles]

Yeah, No, I actually like that. You know why I like it? I like it because, look, I don't want it to be too Islamic or any. But I like the idea that one is sort of kneeling or standing or. You know, I actually. I think pews are too modern. Okay. But all of that there.

[Jeremiah Johnston]

We disagree.

[Michael Knowles]

Yeah, I know. It's like, I'll sit. Like, I'm not above sitting.

[Jeremiah Johnston]

Jesus sat when he taught the Bible,

[Michael Knowles]

just so, you know, we could have a nice lounge.

[Jeremiah Johnston]

Yeah. He sat. Every time he taught, he sat.

[Michael Knowles]

Yeah. Okay, well, look, that gives me a justification.

[Jeremiah Johnston]

Yeah, Rabbi. Jesus, don't forget that.

[Michael Knowles]

But I. The east maybe just. It was a geographical fact. A lot of heresies came in there. Sometimes there'd be ecumenical councils, the Eastern bishops, they would be clear.

[Jeremiah Johnston]

Seven ecumenical councils.

[Michael Knowles]

Yes. Yeah. And so they would. They'd go in, they'd go back home, they'd disagree with the councils. There were all these issues. Then it became fused with the state. So you had a kind of Cesaro Papism.

[Jeremiah Johnston]

Totally.

[Michael Knowles]

Very interesting. Speaking of that previous video, one of the great battles in the Middle Ages was between Dante and Boniface viii, who. Boniface VIII was claiming a lot of temporal power. Dante said, no, there's actually a distinction between the temporal and the spiritual power. The temporal power should be illuminated by the spiritual power. He writes this in monarchia, but they're distinct. Monarchia, which was then put on the index of prohibited books, but then taken off the index by. I think it was Leo XIII who was an inspiration for Leo xiv, the current pope. All sorts of interesting reasons as to why that happened, but because of that, I do think the east has been subjected to a lot of bad political pressures. Including Islam.

[Jeremiah Johnston]

Absolutely.

[Michael Knowles]

We didn't even mention Islam 100%. And so it's a labor.

[Jeremiah Johnston]

Look what happens at St. Catherine's right now. Monastery.

[Michael Knowles]

Yes.

[Jeremiah Johnston]

Yes.

[Michael Knowles]

And I love the Eastern Orthodox guy. He says, look, when Jesus is talking to Peter and he says, here are the keys to the kingdom of heaven. I read that as he's talking to all the apostles, it was kind of funny because the way he himself phrased it was when he's talking to Peter, he's saying, all right, well, he's talking to Peter. Maybe he's talking to Peter. And the Eastern Orthodox can point out all of the problems and difficulties and struggles that have happened in the Catholic Church. Very few people are more sensitive to that than I am.

[Jeremiah Johnston]

I know.

[Michael Knowles]

Trust me, I could give you 100 more. But this is something we see in the ancient world, is that our Lord wants unity, I think, among the churches.

[Interjector/Commentator]

Absolutely.

[Michael Knowles]

This is not to diminish the role and the responsibility of the other bishops. But yeah, if your point is, it's hard and slow going and problematic to have a unified church. And these guys in Rome, they mess things up sometimes. And, gee, you don't say, tell me something I don't know. Nevertheless, we want, you know, when we recite the Creed, even without the filioque clause, which should be in the creed.

[Jeremiah Johnston]

Absolutely.

[Michael Knowles]

Anyway, we say at the end, what do we say?

[Jeremiah Johnston]

We say peri chorious.

[Podcast Host]

Yes.

[Michael Knowles]

We say we believe in one holy, Catholic and Apostolic Church.

[Jeremiah Johnston]

Absolutely.

[Michael Knowles]

And we'll get the Eastern back. Yes, at some point. Okay, next one.

[Shroud Skeptic]

Realistically, we have no way of actually knowing who this belonged to.

[Jeremiah Johnston]

It could be any random guy.

[Shroud Skeptic]

It's not like we have a sample of Jesus's DNA to compare it with. But what we do find from a close examination of the blood is that it's not blood. It's just dye made from red ochre and vermilion Blood stain pattern analysis shows that the stains don't make any sense and are unrealistic for a crucifixion. The Shroud's fabric was made from a herringbone weave, one far more complex than any type of fabric we see used in burials during the first century. Radiocarbon dating methods from three independent sources place the actual age of the shroud between 1260 and 1390, the same time when it first went on display at a French church. Based on these facts, we can be supremely confident that the Shroud of Turin is a fraud. But even if it were real, it. It wouldn't prove anything.

[Michael Knowles]

Okay, well, did he convince you? Were you wrong?

[Jeremiah Johnston]

This is a Hold my Diet Coke moment, if you don't mind. Okay. The blood samples were done by two Jewish hematologists, Heller and Adler, it's type AB blood, it's human blood, it's type AB blood. And we can even distinguish the post mortem blood from its separation from the serum where Jesus is, is pierced through the rib five and six. So again, Barry Schwartz, who is the documenting photographer of the Shroud of Turin, who was a Jew for 17 years even after he took the photograph. Do you know what caused him to go from being skeptical even though he was the documenting photographer? It was the blood. He said the blood put it beyond. No doubt 6% of the world's population is type AB blood. Okay, period. So much has happened since we talked about the Shroud. Last time I told you that the British Museum suppressed the raw data of the carbon dating of the shroud for 27 years. And Tristan, my buddy just did a book on it. Thirdly, I just met with Bruno Barbaras and by the way, the irony of his last name is not lost on me. I write about that in the Jesus discoveries. He took all of the factors and I actually have a picture of it in my book that is so fun because actually his factory, Bruno Barbaris, is a mathematician at the University of Turin and he put a mathematical equation to all of the aspects of the Shroud, the crucified man, and how they match up with what scripture says about how Jesus was crucified. He said there is a 1 in 200 billion chance it's anyone other than Jesus from the Bible. Having said all that, it's not a forgery. I want you to hold something cool. I didn't have this last time.

[Michael Knowles]

Alright.

[Jeremiah Johnston]

You are looking right here at a Roman solidus that is from Justinian II, late 7th century. And what is the first thing that you think of when you see the face on that coin?

[Michael Knowles]

It looks like Jesus, the face of the Shroud.

[Jeremiah Johnston]

This is the first coin that ever had the face of Christ on it. So it was a very bold move.

[Michael Knowles]

What year is this from?

[Jeremiah Johnston]

This is from the late 600s, seventh century. Wow. So by the way, 700 years before the supposed carbon dating, what's the source material if the Shroud didn't exist?

[Michael Knowles]

Crazy.

[Jeremiah Johnston]

Remember, sketch artists in a criminal defense, you know, they would sketch a criminal. This is like four times what's accepted in a court of law to match the Shroud of Turin. And I want to say something else that is so important. Waxes dating, wide angle X ray scattering has showed that the Shroud is in fact 2000 years old. There's actually five different ways that we date the Shroud that I write about in my book. The Shroud is the greatest gospel evangelism tool I've ever seen.

[Michael Knowles]

Michael, this is. You know, it takes a lot to really impress me.

[Jeremiah Johnston]

Let's go.

[Michael Knowles]

This is cool.

[Jeremiah Johnston]

Well, I had to elevate my game from last time.

[Michael Knowles]

Yeah, and you did a good job last time, too. Wow. All right, what are you going to do next time you come, dude, what are you going to bring?

[Jeremiah Johnston]

I'm just getting started.

[Michael Knowles]

I don't have to bring the Dead Sea Scrolls.

[Jeremiah Johnston]

I have them. I can do that. I can do that. I can bring the great Isaiah scroll. It's all in here.

[Michael Knowles]

The book is Jesus Discoveries. Go get it. Get it right now.

[Jeremiah Johnston]

Let's go.

[Michael Knowles]

Jeremiah Johnston. Good to see you.

[Jeremiah Johnston]

You're a scholar and a gentleman.

[Michael Knowles]

That was fabulous.

[Jeremiah Johnston]

Is that all right? Okay. I mean, how long? I mean, how this Augustus one Insane. Well, no, Augustus is right here. Yeah.

[Carvana Advertiser]

Reggie, I just sold my car online.

[Michael Knowles]

Let's go, Grandpa. Wait, you did?

[Jeremiah Johnston]

Yep.

[Carvana Advertiser]

On Carvana. Just put in the license plate, answered a few questions, got an offer in minutes. Easier than setting up that new digital picture frame.

[Jeremiah Johnston]

You don't say.

[Carvana Advertiser]

Yeah, they're even picking it up tomorrow. Talk about fast.

[Michael Knowles]

Wow. Way to go. So, about that picture frame.

[Carvana Advertiser]

Ah, forget about it. Until Carvana makes one, I'm not interested.

[Michael Knowles]

Car selling made easy on Carvana.

[Podcast Host]

Pick up fees may apply.