YES or NO: Tomi Lahren

Summary

Podcast Summary: "YES or NO: Tomi Lahren"

Podcast Information:

• Title: The Michael Knowles Show
• Host/Author: The Daily Wire
• Episode: YES or NO: Tomi Lahren
• Release Date: June 30, 2025
• Description: Bask in the simple joys of being right. The Michael Knowles Show cuts through the madness of our politics and culture, analyzing the top stories of the day. Monday through Friday.

---

Introduction to the Game

At the outset of the episode, Michael Knowles introduces the "YES or NO" game, designed to test how well he knows his guest, Tomi Lahren. The rules are straightforward: each participant asks yes or no questions, attempts to guess the other's answers, and scores points based on correct guesses. The stakes are humorously set with the possibility of drinking penalties.

Notable Quote:

• Michael Knowles [00:54]: “Welcome to yes or no, the bibulous battle to discover who knows whom better.”

Stereotypes: Blondes vs. Brunettes

The first topic delves into societal stereotypes regarding hair color and intelligence. Michael posits that men often perceive blondes as less intelligent compared to brunettes, a notion Tomi explores from her experiences, particularly in New York.

Notable Quotes:

• Michael Knowles [02:24]: “Do most men assume that blondes are less intelligent than brunettes?”
• Tomi Lahren [03:24]: “I don't see a lot of blondes in New York. For me, when I see a lot of brunettes, they just don't seem like they're having as much fun.”

Female Pilots vs. Asian Drivers

The conversation shifts to comparing female pilots with Asian drivers, challenging stereotypes and discussing the impact of Diversity, Equity, and Inclusion (DEI) initiatives.

Notable Quotes:

• Michael Knowles [05:01]: “Are female pilots the new Asian drivers?”
• Tomi Lahren [06:31]: “I believe the right runs the risk of overusing DEI as an excuse for everything that goes wrong.”

Women's Sports and the WNBA

Tomi and Michael debate the entertainment value of the WNBA, particularly focusing on incidents that might make the league more watchable to skeptics.

Notable Quotes:

• Tomi Lahren [08:21]: “So, I think you're supposed to lock in your answer and then pontificate.”
• Michael Knowles [09:18]: “Yeah, yeah, but it's not because the libs will sometimes say, well, you guys are hypocrites because you don't care about women's sports.”

Authenticity of Joe Biden

A segment addresses conspiracy theories about Joe Biden's authenticity, including claims about body doubles and public speaking engagements.

Notable Quotes:

• Michael Knowles [11:36]: “If they made a fake Biden, why would they make that one?”
• Tomi Lahren [13:19]: “I'm glad that defeats the lie and makes it more obvious.”

Citizenship and Religious Beliefs

The duo tackles the contentious issue of denying citizenship to individuals whose religious beliefs contradict American values, exploring the balance between assimilation and constitutional rights.

Notable Quotes:

• Michael Knowles [14:16]: “If you come here fresh off the jet plane and say something like... you say something that if it were me, President Michael, I would say, hello, nice to meet you. Go, go now you're out of here.”
• Tomi Lahren [16:03]: “I just don't think you can do it and be a constitutionalist.”

Cultural Issues: Stay-at-Home Sons

Tomi discusses the cultural phenomenon of "stay-at-home sons," attributing it to generational shifts and advocating for cultural change rather than policy interventions.

Notable Quotes:

• Tomi Lahren [18:34]: “It's a cultural problem. You have to address the cultural issues.”
• Michael Knowles [19:22]: “I don't know if that's what gets them going. Honestly, I think laziness does.”

Feminism and Traditional Gender Roles

The conversation delves into the definition of feminism, with Tomi redefines it within a conservative framework, challenging traditional gender roles and advocating for complementary differences between men and women.

Notable Quotes:

• Michael Knowles [22:58]: “I think feminism is wrong. They used to say I like the second wave but not the third wave.”
• Tomi Lahren [23:02]: “Republicans are hijacking feminism the way that the left hijacked rainbows and our sports.”

Relationship Expectations and Marriage Age

Tomi and Michael explore expectations in relationships, particularly the readiness for marriage among younger generations, and the impact of upbringing and cultural norms on marital stability.

Notable Quotes:

• Tomi Lahren [21:31]: “I blame mothers who coddle their sons.”
• Michael Knowles [34:00]: “But why? What was the difference?”

Abortion and Pro-Life Stance

A heated discussion ensues around abortion laws, pro-life versus pro-choice arguments, and the role of government in enforcing or restricting abortion access.

Notable Quotes:

• Tomi Lahren [45:29]: “I'm not advocating for late-term abortions. I believe in a pro-life message.”
• Michael Knowles [46:11]: “We have laws about everything. Why not that?”

Cultural Appropriation: Blackface Debate

The episode touches on the sensitive topic of blackface and cultural appropriation, with Michael expressing a controversial stance and Tomi distancing herself from participating in such practices.

Notable Quotes:

• Michael Knowles [49:37]: “If you're doing it to be really cruel to any racial group, that's quite wrong.”
• Tomi Lahren [50:51]: “I would never do it. It just does not seem worth it to me to be canceled for that.”

Conclusion and Game Outcome

The episode concludes with Tomi significantly outperforming Michael in the game, highlighting her effective use of facts and logic. They wrap up with final remarks promoting Tomi's new show and reinforcing their mutual respect despite differing viewpoints.

Notable Quotes:

• Tomi Lahren [52:23]: “Sat.”
• Michael Knowles [52:12]: “Tomi, you completely destroyed me with facts and logic.”

Final Thoughts: The episode "YES or NO: Tomi Lahren" offers a robust exchange of conservative viewpoints on a myriad of cultural and political issues. Through the interactive game format, both hosts articulate their stances, providing listeners with a deep dive into contemporary conservative discourse.

---

Notable Advertisements Skipped:

• Huggies Snug n Dry Advertisement [00:00–00:26]
• Helix Sleep Advertisement [28:12–29:20]

Additional Resources:

• Tomi Lahren's Content: Follow on Instagram (@tomilahren) and YouTube (@TommyLaurenFearless) for more insights and discussions.
• Daily Wire Membership: Exclusive benefits available with promo code: KNOWLES at https://utm.io/ueEss.

Transcript

[Tomi Lahren]

The new Huggies Snug n Dry are luxuriously soft and ultra dry.

[Michael Knowles]

How soft are we talking?

[Tomi Lahren]

Unbelievably soft?

[Michael Knowles]

Irresistibly soft.

[Tomi Lahren]

Doesn't your baby deserve a diaper that's oh, so gentle on their tushy? Huggy Snug n Dry helps keep them comfy, cozy and protected.

[Michael Knowles]

Experience the unexpected softness and up to 100% leak protection.

[Tomi Lahren]

More parents choose the new Huggy Snug.

[Michael Knowles]

N Dry softness versus the leading premium diaper Huggies.

[Tomi Lahren]

We got you, baby. Does a woman's body count matter if she has truly changed her ways? My husband was previously married. Yeah, I prefer that. I prefer that. I prefer that he's been married and divorced.

[Michael Knowles]

Welcome to yes or no, the bibulous battle to discover who knows whom better. My guest today, a woman who needs no introduction, Tomi Lahren. How do we play? I will ask Tommy a yes or no question. She will select her answer away from my prying eyes. Then I'll guess how she answered. If I guess correctly, I get a point. If I guess incorrectly, I lose a point. No matter what, I'll probably end up drinking. Then it's Tommy's turn. Neither of us has seen the questions beforehand. Whoever has the most points at the end wins. The stakes could be higher. Let's get started. Tommy, thank you for being here.

[Tomi Lahren]

Thank you for having me. I'm excited about this. I didn't know there would be cards and a board game involved.

[Michael Knowles]

And booze. But you have an unfair advantage over me. You're having water?

[Tomi Lahren]

I'm having water. Staying hydrated.

[Michael Knowles]

Why are you having water for this game?

[Tomi Lahren]

Well, it's a Tuesday at 2 and I'll be driving to Brentwood, so.

[Michael Knowles]

Hold on. You're gonna tell on me to the whole audience out there?

[Tomi Lahren]

That's all right.

[Michael Knowles]

That I'm boozing at work. Sometimes we've had to film this at like 9 o' clock in the morning. And I say I'm a man of my word. I'll drink the martini and the rest of the day is useless.

[Tomi Lahren]

Listen, it's your game, so you get to make the rules.

[Michael Knowles]

Is it? I don't know the rules. You've been briefed on the rules, though.

[Tomi Lahren]

I have been lightly briefed on the rules, so I hope that I don't mess it up. But it sounds like you might not be fully, you know, convinced of what we're doing either.

[Michael Knowles]

No. And I'm sober right now and I still don't know how to play. I do know you're A lady. So you go first.

[Tomi Lahren]

All right. Do most men assume that blondes are less intelligent than brunettes?

[Michael Knowles]

I said yes.

[Tomi Lahren]

And I answered that. You said yes.

[Michael Knowles]

You said yes. Okay, Tommy got it right. And I have to drink. I do think that men think, rightly or wrongly, they assume that if a girl is blonde, she's less smart. And I don't think it's about the blonde so much as the brunette. Brunette gives to me an aura of bookishness.

[Tomi Lahren]

Okay.

[Michael Knowles]

Is that fair or is it a terrible prejudice?

[Tomi Lahren]

I would think, because when I. I'll tell you this, I go to New York and I don't see any blondes there, any variation of blondes there. I see a lot of darker haired women there. Yes.

[Michael Knowles]

Yeah.

[Tomi Lahren]

And I'm not talking about the model scene. I'm talking about your everyday people. Yeah, yeah. Okay. And I don't see a lot of blondes.

[Michael Knowles]

No.

[Tomi Lahren]

And for me, my perspective when I go there, it's completely different than in Nashville or Dallas or even California where you have a mix of both. But you're gonna see a blonde, you know, pretty good chance you're gonna see a blonde.

[Michael Knowles]

Yeah.

[Tomi Lahren]

Not in New York. And to me, when I see a lot of brunettes, I don't assume that they are more intelligent, but they just don't seem like they're having as much fun. And I know that that's, again, that's a cliche. They seem maybe more serious.

[Michael Knowles]

I don't think it means they're severe.

[Tomi Lahren]

I don't think it means that you're smarter. I just think it means that you take yourself maybe a little bit too seriously. Now, these are New York brunettes.

[Michael Knowles]

Yes.

[Tomi Lahren]

That's just my perception because there's not a lot of blondes there, not a lot of redheads there, a lot of brunettes there. So I don't know if that translates into intelligence. I'll tell you this, blondes like to be underestimated professionally. Personally, I like if people think I'm stupid, maybe on first glance, that's fine with me. That gives me an advantage. If you go in underestimating me, I would prefer that. Right. But I also can have a smile on my face, be blonde, enjoy it. My hair is actually darker than it normally is, by the way. It's not in an attempt to look smarter, it's just I like to change it up. But I find that blondes also appreciate maybe aesthetics more. And again, that's a regional thing, but I don't find that people, maybe in New York, I don't think, you know, that maybe they're as into aesthetics as Dallas, Nashville, they're more. There are California, Miami. Yes. It's much more plain, which is fine. But I've just noticed that.

[Michael Knowles]

Should I go blonde?

[Tomi Lahren]

I think you should.

[Michael Knowles]

I should. Maybe some highlights, tips, like in the 2000s. Yeah, the 2000s are back then I could be unknown. That would be good. Okay. Are female pilots the new Asian drivers? Hmm. Really? Okay. You say no.

[Tomi Lahren]

Yes. I say no.

[Michael Knowles]

You don't think. Okay, so we have to see what we mean by Asian drivers. Okay. I think the stereotype is that Asian drivers are not very good at operating cars.

[Tomi Lahren]

Okay.

[Michael Knowles]

Do you not? That's a stereotype.

[Tomi Lahren]

Okay.

[Michael Knowles]

Do you. You don't think there's a stereotype that the female pilots are a little weaker?

[Tomi Lahren]

That could be a stereotype. I don't think it's the new thing, though. I've been very vocal about this.

[Michael Knowles]

You're saying it's the old thing.

[Tomi Lahren]

I've been very vocal about this. I understand. When the right makes arguments about dei. I'm not a DEI person either. I don't like it. I like merit. I don't like that we went full DEI 2020 through 2024. I don't like it. However, I think that the right runs the risk of overusing DEI as an excuse for everything that goes wrong. I think that immediately when something goes wrong, you go, oh, must be a DEI hire. I think that that cheapens the argument. So. And I also. I know. I don't care that our Secretary of defense said, the boys are coming home and there was a female pilot, but I think it would be fair to say we reportedly did have a female flying One of the B2s that dropped bombs on Iran. So I think that's a testament to the skill of male pilots.

[Michael Knowles]

I didn't know that. I know that we in principle have female pilots. I didn't know one of them was flying the B2.

[Tomi Lahren]

Yeah.

[Michael Knowles]

Wow.

[Tomi Lahren]

Female pilots, at least in the military, are often very revered.

[Michael Knowles]

So hell hath no fury like a woman squirming. But I will say this right over the Ayatollah. Yes.

[Tomi Lahren]

I don't like when you have certain airlines that this is an all female crew and we must hail that. And this isn't all, we must all have a gay crew and all that. That makes me nervous because if you're doing it, you're trying to assemble a crew to say that you did something historic. Now I'm a little concerned.

[Michael Knowles]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Tomi Lahren]

But I am not one of Those people that sees a female pilot and.

[Michael Knowles]

Is then concerned, would you say women are not as good at driving cars.

[Tomi Lahren]

As men on certain aspects? We're not great with curbs. I'm personally not great with curbs. I can't parallel park. If I am in a situation where I have to parallel park, I will leave because I know my limits and I'm not gonna even attempt it.

[Michael Knowles]

I'm not going to that party. Yeah, okay. All right, fair enough.

[Tomi Lahren]

All right, we have a video prompt, so we have to watch first.

[Michael Knowles]

Golson had it knocked away. Good hands by Allen. And Sheldon comes up with the Ste Going coast to coast. And here's. We got another raicus here as J.C. sheldon goes right after Sophie Cunningham. It was a hard foul. What really got this escalated. So that was called a flagrant. Those two were technicals. Charles got a technical, and then Mabry for what we thought should have been. This is the most anyone has ever watched at the wnba.

[Tomi Lahren]

Well, don't give away your answer then, because you have to lock it in. You might have just given me. You might have just given me a tell there, but go ahead. You gotta lock.

[Michael Knowles]

Wait, so what's the prompt?

[Tomi Lahren]

You kind of answered it, so that's why I already thought. Does this finally make the WNBA bearable to watch?

[Michael Knowles]

Oh, the fight. I'll take cat fight.

[Tomi Lahren]

Given the video evidence we just saw.

[Michael Knowles]

Does it. Does this. It's much more interesting than the basketball.

[Tomi Lahren]

I think you're supposed to lock in your answer and then pontificate.

[Michael Knowles]

Does it.

[Tomi Lahren]

Does what you saw in that clip make it now bearable to watch the wnba?

[Michael Knowles]

You saw. I didn't hesitate. You saw.

[Tomi Lahren]

You could read through my soul by your reaction.

[Michael Knowles]

Yes, this is a tough one because we have spent on the right years now defending women's sports. But this is a little confession. I don't. I don't care about women's sports at all. I don't care about it at all. I love Riley Gaines. I care about justice. I don't want transvestites doing weird stuff in the pool or whatever, but I don't. It is not possible for me to care less about women's sports.

[Tomi Lahren]

I'm right there with you.

[Michael Knowles]

Okay?

[Tomi Lahren]

So I want there to be fairness, especially for young female athletes, because whereas I don't think many are going to go professional, I think that it's an opportunity for them to. To build their skills, to work as a team, to try really hard, show determination, resilience. I think that's important for young women. I think past the college level, you know, let's be honest, there's not a lot for women after that. Unless you're gonna be an Olympian, which is great.

[Michael Knowles]

Or like one of the Williams sisters.

[Tomi Lahren]

Yes.

[Michael Knowles]

They get a pass. Yeah.

[Tomi Lahren]

I would also say this. If I wanna watch girls fight, I watch Bravo. I don't need to watch 6 foot 4 girls poking each other in the eye. I don't consider that entertaining. I don' men's basketball either, but I also wouldn't watch women's softball if they were fighting each other. Like I said, if I want to watch women fight, I will watch Bravo. It's better produced, more fun, more entertaining. So I'm right there with you.

[Michael Knowles]

More glamorous. Yeah. Okay. Yeah, but it's not because the libs will sometimes say, well, you guys are hypocrites because you don't care about women's sports. I think it's not about the man. It's not about the volleyball or whatever, you know, it's about the justice.

[Tomi Lahren]

Right.

[Michael Knowles]

And the scholarships and the safety and.

[Tomi Lahren]

Yes.

[Michael Knowles]

Okay. All right, I'm up. This question requires a video prompt. They're really making a meal out of a cupcake with these things, aren't they? Okay. Is there validity to the claim that we haven't seen the real Joe Biden in quite some time? I gotta guess what you would say. Okay. It was fast. Whatever you answered was fast.

[Tomi Lahren]

Yes.

[Michael Knowles]

Okay. It's not a fake Biden.

[Tomi Lahren]

No.

[Michael Knowles]

If they made a fake Biden, why would they make that one?

[Tomi Lahren]

That's exactly my point in it. If it's gonna be a body double, it has to be somebody that's exceptionally better than the real Joe. That's just a different version of him that's medic, unmedicated, we don't know. It's all the same. I liked the Joe Biden State of the Union where the eyes were just popping. I was shocked. I mean, a year ago this week, Joe Biden gave us the performance of a lifetime in that debate. And I say that he raw dogged that debate. No stimulants were used, and that was quite obvious. That was a bold move by his team, I think. Purposeful, but no, there's no body double there. Joe Biden is also on the speaking circuit now because he needs to make that money.

[Michael Knowles]

Is he? No, he's not. Is he on the speaking circuit?

[Tomi Lahren]

Well, he's getting paid to do speeches, so. I mean, to different groups, Right.

[Michael Knowles]

Oh, because that is what you do. You leave the office, you got to fill up the coffers but usually that presupposes that you can speak.

[Tomi Lahren]

Right.

[Michael Knowles]

Wow. I was at the State of the Union two years ago, the one where he was shot up real good with the adrenaline and he. I remember I was sitting behind the presidents. I couldn't see him that well. I was seeing the reaction of all the Dems. And he got out there and it was one note the whole time. It was just, you know, he goes, 45 minutes or whatever it is. It was the opposite of the debate. And now he's put out to pasture. Yeah. Wow. How much is he being paid for those speeches? Do we know?

[Tomi Lahren]

I think, actually, I think it's a considerable amount. And then he's got riders that include travel team, different things like that. I mean, good for him if people are still willing to pay him. I like it because it makes Democrats very nervous. Every time he surfaces, people have to cover it. Then their lie becomes more. More obvious, more vivid.

[Michael Knowles]

Yeah.

[Tomi Lahren]

And then they have to talk about it, and they have to talk about the fact that they lied. And quite obviously. So for at least four years.

[Michael Knowles]

Maybe we should hire him. Hire him to give a speech. That's not a bad idea. Okay, you're up.

[Tomi Lahren]

Should people with religious beliefs that contradict American values be denied citizenship?

[Michael Knowles]

That presupposes they're not citizens already, I would assume. Okay. Yeah, for sure. Right. Now, would you agree with that?

[Tomi Lahren]

Now, the way that it's worded, I think gets us into more discussion needed. Now, contradict American values. Does that mean you're chanting death to America, death to Israel, harassing Jewish students, leading protests that are violence in nature? Then I would say absolutely. Be denied citizenship.

[Michael Knowles]

What if you're not being violent, you're not directly threatening anyone, you just believe things that are incommensurate with the American, broadly Christian founding ideals.

[Tomi Lahren]

I don't know if that would be. I don't know if that would be very First Amendment of us.

[Michael Knowles]

You're not sufficiently authoritarian, Tommy. This. You know, John Jay wrote around the founding and the Constitution. He wrote. He said, thank God. He said it more eloquently than I am, but he said, thank God that we come from a common stock and we have a shared experience of the revolution and we have the same religion. And John Adams said. He said the principles of Christianity are the principles on which independence was won. John Adams was not an orthodox Christian by any chance or any stretch. But they all said, you know, does Christianity think it really matters? So I don't want to single out the Muslims because I like some Muslims. But let's say a Zoroastrian comes here, some real nasty Zoroastrian, you know, and he just doesn't buy the principles on which our country is founded. Should we say, sorry, buddy, you gotta, you don't need to be a churchgoing Christian, but you gotta, you gotta get on board or you're going home to Persia.

[Tomi Lahren]

I believe in assimilation. I don't know if you can legislate, dictate that. Now that would be a dream world. It's like everyone comes, wants to assimilate, wants to have American values. You would assume if you come here that you would have some desire to practice American values and traditions and beliefs. You would hope that. However, if you are a fundamentalist Muslim and you believe in Sharia, I would argue that contradicts American value. But. So you would say no to clear out Michigan? I mean, that's.

[Michael Knowles]

Well, assume, let's say they're not here. You know, they're not here yet. They show up to Ellis island, do you send them packing? President Tommy?

[Tomi Lahren]

Yeah. I just don't think you can do it and be a constitutionalist. Unfortunately, I do it.

[Michael Knowles]

We don't need to accept them into the country.

[Tomi Lahren]

Okay.

[Michael Knowles]

There's no. They don't have a right to come here. I'm not saying the ones that are here, I agree it's hard to clear out Dearborn or whatever, but I'm saying they just, they show up fresh off the boat or however they get it fresh off the jet plane and they say, you know, a la la la la, whatever. They say something that if it were me, President Michael, I would say, hello, nice, hello, nice to meet you. Go, go now you're out of here. But you would be more open minded.

[Tomi Lahren]

I think, if you exhibit. And Secretary Rubio has been very forthright about this. If you exhibit behavior that shows that you are a threat, absolutely. But I don't know if, as a First Amendment person, I don't know if I could be someone that would say, will you hold this religious belief so you can't be here. I think that for me that would be going too far.

[Michael Knowles]

It's very open minded. Me, I'm a little more close minded. Fireworks. Love it. Barbecue. Essential. But if you really want to celebrate freedom this Independence Day, do it with ideas that endure. Do it the Daily Wire way. Right now, during the Daily Wire + Fourth of July sale, we are celebrating freedom by giving you six months free when you become an annual member. That is six months of fearless journalism, culture defining entertainment and the pursuit of truth. That would make our founding fathers proud. This is not just a deal. It's a declaration of reason and values that still matter. Celebrate freedom the right way. Go to DailyWirePlus.com use code FREEDOM and get six months free today. Okay, I'm up. The rise of stay at home suns. Is that a thing? The rise of stay at home suns will only be fixed if RFK Jr. Bans soy and other seed oils. What does Tommy think about that? I got it wrong. What do you mean I got it wrong? How did I get it wrong? What do you mean? Hold on. That would mean that that condition would be necessary but not sufficient. So I'm not. I'm not. We should have cleared this up before. It's not to say that RFK Jr. Banning soy and seed oils would fix the problem.

[Tomi Lahren]

Okay.

[Michael Knowles]

It's to say the problem would not be fixed. If RFK does not ban soy and seed oils, does that change your answer or. No? I still lost.

[Tomi Lahren]

So again, the way that the question was worded. I'll just tell you my take on it.

[Michael Knowles]

It was poorly worded. I agree. It was Davies fault. Yes.

[Tomi Lahren]

Tell you this. The rise of stay at home sons is not going to be solved by banning certain food items, certain soys, nothing. It's a cultural problem. You have to address the cultural issues. There's nothing that you can ban as far as consumption that's going to fix that. That's.

[Michael Knowles]

What if you banned pot porn, and this is alliterative. What's a third P? And playthings like Legos. I don't know what they do these kind of the man children. What if you banned all that stuff? Yeah. Okay. Yeah. What if you banned all of that? That would help, wouldn't it? If you got, frankly, just. Just porn. If you got rid of porn, I think you would go 40% toward fixing the problem.

[Tomi Lahren]

I don't know this new generation, though, I don't know if that's their thing. I don't know if that's what gets them going. Honestly, I think laziness does. I think laziness fuels a lot of the reason that they want to stay home. They don't want to achieve necessarily. And I'm not talking again. This is my biggest pet peeve is there are some conservative men in our space that when I say those things, they go, you hate men. Okay, calm down, Chads. No, what I'm saying is we have a cultural problem in which some young men, especially the generations that are coming up now, the alphas, the Gen Zsa, right? There are a significant amount that do not want to achieve. Attain. They don't want to be exceptional. They don't want to be masculine. They don't want to be leaders of family and household. I think that's a problem. Now, I get eviscerated for this, but when I say that women don't have much to choose from, I'm not saying women are perfect. So I'm glad that I get to clear this up. We have plenty of cultural rot on the female side.

[Michael Knowles]

Yeah, yeah.

[Tomi Lahren]

Trust me and believe. I agree with you. I'm talking about women who uphold their end of the bargain that are looking for a man who is masculine, who wants to be leader of household. They are not finding the same swath that maybe they once could because it doesn't exist.

[Michael Knowles]

Okay, so then how do you. Let's say so. The men don't want the women because they say the women are all promiscuous and gold diggers. And the women don't want the men because they say they're all man children and they're degenerate and they're mommy's boys. So you have this pro. You have a game of chicken, and neither side is going to budge. So then how do you solve the problem?

[Tomi Lahren]

It's a cultural problem.

[Michael Knowles]

But how do you fix the culture?

[Tomi Lahren]

Well, little by little, I think that the mega movement has done a lot for young men. I think the mega movement has done a lot to inspire young men to want to be leader of household, to be a provider, to be a stable man. I think it's done a lot now. We've got a ways to go.

[Michael Knowles]

Yeah.

[Tomi Lahren]

And I don't think, by the way, that women are blameless in this. I think mothers might be a big part of the problem.

[Michael Knowles]

They're over mothering.

[Tomi Lahren]

People go, oh, you don't blame women. No, I do. I blame mothers. I blame mothers. I blame mothers who coddle their sons.

[Michael Knowles]

Yeah. I've seen men of these generations ruined. Ruined by over mothering. And I love. Look, I love my mother. I'm a good Italian boy. I love my mother. I love my grandmothers. But I have seen how it can go. Truly, if you said, pick the one thing that ruined that kid, I would say the mother was too indulgent.

[Tomi Lahren]

Yeah.

[Michael Knowles]

Wow.

[Tomi Lahren]

I think it's a problem now. Again, every time I say this, the men on conservative Twitter come after me. Oh, she's a feminist. She's a covert feminist. I don't understand what's feminists. You're not a feminist saying, listen I think Republicans are the new feminists because we're the only ones that stand up for women's sports and spaces. I'm not the leftist definition of a.

[Michael Knowles]

Feminist, but would you say. I would say I'm not a feminist. I would say I'm not a feminist at all. I think feminism is wrong. All of it. They used to do this thing where they'd say, I like the second wave but not the third wave, or I like the first wave, but not the. I think it's all wrong, Mary Wollstonecraft. Totally wrong. Because it seems to me feminism says men and women are basically the same. Anything you can do, I can do equally. But I don't think that's true. I think men and women are different. I think there's some things women do I can't do, some things I can do that women generally can't do. And we are complementary. We go to. It's just a different view of human nature. But you're fairly traditional. I mean, you're famous and everything. You go on tv, but you hold to generally traditional views of men and women.

[Tomi Lahren]

Right.

[Michael Knowles]

So you're not. You wouldn't say you're a feminist, or would you?

[Tomi Lahren]

I would say in the. Like I said, I think that Republicans are hijacking feminism the way that the left hijacked rainbows and our sports. And I think that Republicans and conservatives are taking it back because to me, a feminist in 2025 means somebody who stands up for women's sports and spaces. So that, to me, if that's how I'm defining it, which is, again, I'm saying we're taking it over, then, yes, I am. Now, here is where I sometimes butt heads with some of the, like I say, conservative Twitter, male conservative Twitter. Right. I don't believe that women should inherently make less stay at home, live to be mothers. That's the extent of your personality, Persona, identity, I don't believe in.

[Michael Knowles]

But if a mother wants to do that, you'd be fine with that.

[Tomi Lahren]

I believe in everybody being able to do what they want to do, as long as it doesn't negatively impact society at large. Right. So that's my conservative belief.

[Michael Knowles]

Doesn't. But doesn't it all. To me, it's a little libertarian. Doesn't it? Doesn't it. Like the kids, we were just talking about the boys living in their mother's basement, they're doing what they want to do. So they say they want to play video games, eat potatoes, eat chicken nuggets. They want to. It is ostensibly it's not impacting society at large, but it is because you got all these men who should be acting like men out of the dating pool. So now the women are saying, well, I got to pick from a bunch of losers, and I don't want that. And then no one's having kids, and society crumbles. So in a way, it's like, there's almost no way to have a private sin because it's all affecting society. So then we don't want them to just do that. We want them to be men. We want them to flourish. And we want the women to have the gigachads that they can marry. And then the women are like, really? But so doesn't. If you left women up to their devices, wouldn't most of them prefer to stay home, raise kids, get married over working in a corporate job?

[Tomi Lahren]

I would disagree with that.

[Michael Knowles]

You don't think so?

[Tomi Lahren]

No.

[Michael Knowles]

You think they would take the corporate job?

[Tomi Lahren]

Not everyone. I think that it would be a pretty 50, 50 split. Yeah. For me. And again, they're gonna eviscerate me for this.

[Michael Knowles]

You're a little different, though.

[Tomi Lahren]

I mean, just get ready. Just get ready for it. Okay. I personally am not somebody who has grown up like I'm born to be a mother and a wife, and that is my goal. That has never been me and conservative male Twitter be damned. I don't care if you don't like.

[Michael Knowles]

That, but aren't you. We're both friends with a lot of women who go on TV and who are politicians and who are, you know, big fan, but you would admit, and I'm, you know, I'm very close friends with many such women. You're the exception, not the rule. You write. You disagree.

[Tomi Lahren]

I disagree with you. Okay. Like I said, I think if you asked women, would you rather be a stay at home mom or would you rather be a corporate. I'm not necessarily saying an executive, but would you rather exist in the business world? And I'm not saying that that means that if you exist in the business world that you're childless and unmarried.

[Michael Knowles]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Tomi Lahren]

I think you can have it all. I'm one of those people that can.

[Michael Knowles]

You have it all.

[Tomi Lahren]

I do believe that you can.

[Michael Knowles]

You can. As you just said, not an executive, not a superstar. Tommy Lahren goes on tv, everyone knows your name. You're a middle, middle manager at the widget factory, and you do spreadsheets and stuff like that. You make a decent salary, but not a ton. And you have a few kids and your husband's working too. You gotta. Either you're gonna stay home with your kid or you're put your kid in daycare. Plenty of women put their kids in daycare. But you can't totally have it all, can you? You can't be Donna Reed and Margaret Thatcher.

[Tomi Lahren]

I disagree with you.

[Michael Knowles]

Okay.

[Tomi Lahren]

I guess I do. I'm not saying it's not challenging. I think it can be done. Not everybody wants that light.

[Michael Knowles]

There's only so many hours in the day. Right. Could you stay up all night with a kid? Let's say you got three kids running around. You know, you're waking up constantly, you're cooking the stew on the pot, you've got all this stuff, and then you have to be up. Cause Fox and friends is at 6am on the east coast, on the west coast, and you gotta be up. You've had one hour sleep. Now, maybe look, you could say I wake up, I'm camera ready. I'm good. But it would be.

[Tomi Lahren]

Yeah, it would be difficult.

[Michael Knowles]

It would be very hard.

[Tomi Lahren]

Yeah. That level would not be sustainable. But if you work to your full potential, you can afford to have help. Now, some people are like, oh, you don't have a nanny. Oh, that's so awful. I disagree with that. I believe that if you attain a certain level of success.

[Michael Knowles]

But that's the thing. You have a lot of money to have a nanny.

[Tomi Lahren]

Right. I grew up going to daycare. Right? Yeah. I grew up with both parents working. I'm very middle America, middle class. Both my parents worked. I went to daycare when I was old enough. I stayed home alone. I loved my upbringing. I do not resent my mom for not staying home with me.

[Michael Knowles]

But you. But you. I guess the only point I make, because I agree that was my upbringing too. But I'm just saying that was one experience. And the other experience is, you know, mommies come. You know, you come home and she's got brownies and whatever does that thing. They're just different experiences.

[Tomi Lahren]

Yeah.

[Michael Knowles]

Meaning you can't do them both at the same time. You can't be baking brownies while you're taking the business call to do the merger and acquisition.

[Tomi Lahren]

Oh, I think you can.

[Michael Knowles]

Well, in order to even have to face this dilemma, you have to have children. And to have children, you have to sleep together. And when you want to sleep, you need to check out Helix sleep. Helix is a great way to improve your nights and keep your sleeping. Was that the greatest ad transition you've ever shown? Thank you. It'll keep you ready to go Every single morning. What makes Helix different is they don't just sell you a random mattress. They match you with the perfect one for your body and sleep style. Whether you're a side sleeper, a back sleeper, somewhere in between, they've got you covered. All you have to do is take their sleep quiz, find your ideal match, and when you find the right match, you will wonder how you ever slept on anything else. I have had my Helix for years at this point. I try to be a good father, and I have given my boys Helix mattresses. Right now is the perfect time to upgrade your sleep because Helix is offering a 4th of July sale. Helixsleep.com knowles get 27% off site wide. Helixsleep.comknowles for 27% off site wide, make sure you enter our show name, helixsleep.com knowles they have put the score into the prompter.

[Tomi Lahren]

Okay, I think I'm crushing you.

[Michael Knowles]

You're destroying me with facts and logic. It is. And drinks. It is. Three to negative one. Okay, I've got negative points. All right, Now I have a chance to recoup my losses because it is the rapid fire round.

[Tomi Lahren]

All right.

[Michael Knowles]

It's the rapid fire. There we go. Okay, thank you. You're gonna read, and I'm gonna answer rapid fire.

[Tomi Lahren]

Are you worried that eventually a new study will say zin is poison and possibly makes you gay? I'm going right down the list.

[Michael Knowles]

Okay, so the first one, then I answer, then you guess how I would answer. Hold on, hold on. I want to change my answer. I want to change my answer. Correct. Okay. Yeah, I'm not worried because I know that that study will come out. I'm confident of it.

[Tomi Lahren]

Okay.

[Michael Knowles]

Okay, we'll clear it.

[Tomi Lahren]

Yes, clear it out. All right. Are Taylor Swift and Travis Kelce endgame?

[Michael Knowles]

Are they endgame?

[Tomi Lahren]

Oh, like they're ending together. Yes.

[Michael Knowles]

Yes. Yeah, yeah. Come on. It's. They wouldn't even if it were all scripted. You can't break up now. It's not. There's too many fake outs.

[Tomi Lahren]

All right, another point for me. Does a woman's body count matter if she has truly changed her ways?

[Michael Knowles]

It's a very difficult question, actually. Yeah, it matters. It doesn't matter. Ultimately. Yeah, you. I mean, you're completely destroying matters like it matters because there are temporal effects owing to sin, even sins that are already forgiven. So, like, I feel like I have views on this that irritate people for opposite reasons, because I think, like, ultimately, no, you can just repent, people. Everyone can repent. And it's. It's good. You'll be. But like, there are temporal effects owing to sin and habituations and things that, like, it does. It bothers people. You know, that's. I think that's.

[Tomi Lahren]

Do you think it should bother women, though? Equally?

[Michael Knowles]

It should bother women, but not equally. No. There are. I think there is a double standard. I think men and women are different. So it's not a. It's not a hypocrisy, but. Yeah, but men and women are different. So, like a guy. The reason that men, if they're Lotharios or Casanovas or something, are sometimes even admired for it, though they shouldn't be. And the reason why women are looked on as promiscuous and kind of dirty for it is just because of the different natures of men and women. Like, a man pursues a woman, a woman is pursued. And so it's, you know, it's more difficult for a man to sleep with other women. It's. It's easy for a woman to sleep with a lot of men. And so the woman has to be on guard to protect her modesty, whereas the man, if he's gonna be a Lothario, has to try to chase the women. That's my view, at least.

[Tomi Lahren]

Okay.

[Michael Knowles]

You disagree?

[Tomi Lahren]

I'm not necessarily saying that I disagree. I would say I think it's also unattractive to date somebody who has a very high body count. I find that it is.

[Michael Knowles]

Yeah.

[Tomi Lahren]

I don't find it more acceptable.

[Michael Knowles]

But you don't think it's a little more like.

[Tomi Lahren]

I understand your logic behind it.

[Michael Knowles]

Yeah.

[Tomi Lahren]

But as a woman, I find it equally gross if a man has a high body count.

[Michael Knowles]

Yeah. Like, if a guy. What if he changed his ways, though? Like, the woman changed his face?

[Tomi Lahren]

It's not a deal breaker for me. I don't think it should be either way. Right. I think you learn from your experiences. I'll tell you this.

[Michael Knowles]

Yeah.

[Tomi Lahren]

My husband was previously married. Yeah, I prefer that. I prefer that. I prefer that he's been married and divorced. I prefer that.

[Michael Knowles]

Than if he had never been married before. Correct. Why?

[Tomi Lahren]

Well, because if I would have married my husband when he was 25, it would not have worked out.

[Michael Knowles]

He made all of his mistakes.

[Tomi Lahren]

Right. It would not have worked out. I like that he has learned and grown, and that, to me, is a plus.

[Michael Knowles]

Interesting.

[Tomi Lahren]

So, not that I love it, but if I'm looking at it logically, with emotions removed, I prefer that.

[Michael Knowles]

Now, let's say. Okay, I totally get that. And I see a fair bit of It.

[Tomi Lahren]

Now, would he like it if I was previously married? No, he sure would not.

[Michael Knowles]

He would not. He would not. Now, do you think he's hypocritical for that stance or. No, you would say no.

[Tomi Lahren]

That's just how he is. He's much more of a. More of a jealous type than I am.

[Michael Knowles]

Yeah. All men are. That's part of what I'm saying. All men are. You know, we don't like the idea of ever even imagining our wives have ever looked at another man outside of perhaps her father and grandfather. But it's just how the male mind works. Now, your argument is you want the guy to have made the mistakes if he's gonna make them. You want him to make the mistakes and learn from them and be ready for you. But isn't it. It'd be best if the person just didn't make a bunch of mistakes?

[Tomi Lahren]

I don't think that's the human experience, to be honest with you. I just don't. I think men between the ages of 20 and 30 are not ready in most cases for marriage. Yeah, I don't think they are. Now, there are exceptions. My parents got married. My mom was 19, my dad was 21. They've been together for 44 years. Yeah, yeah, okay. It works in some situations. But to your exception and rule analogy that you used earlier, again, I think that men between the ages of 20 and 30 are usually not ready to be husbands and fathers.

[Michael Knowles]

Yes. No, broadly, I think you're right. But isn't it a. That's a cultural issue. So look.

[Tomi Lahren]

No, I would. I would actually. Back to your point, I think it's a biological thing.

[Michael Knowles]

Well, then why did it work for your parents?

[Tomi Lahren]

Exceptions and rules.

[Michael Knowles]

You think it was an exception in their personalities or in the time they grew up? Meaning time they grew up.

[Tomi Lahren]

Yes, way that they grew up.

[Michael Knowles]

That's what I'm saying.

[Tomi Lahren]

Time grew up. Way that they grew up.

[Michael Knowles]

That's all.

[Tomi Lahren]

I mean, by culture, it's completely different. I do feel, though, that at least operating in 2025.

[Michael Knowles]

Yes, yes.

[Tomi Lahren]

Men between the ages of 20 and 30.

[Michael Knowles]

Yeah, yeah.

[Tomi Lahren]

Are not ready for life's responsibility.

[Michael Knowles]

No, I think you're right about that. But. So, you know, the reason that our grandparents could all get married at 22 or whatever, and most of the time it worked out, the divorce rates were much lower and things were generally better. Speaks to the fact that there was a culture that was more habituated to virtuous behavior, not vicious behavior. So where I agree that I want to get the Bad stuff out of my system, learn from my mistakes, change my ways, repent. Usually in your 20s is kind of when it happens now. Ideally, you and your husband would have met, you would have come up in a culture that wasn't as confused as 2025, and you would have not been inclined toward all those mistakes that our culture inclines us toward. And you would have gotten married at 22.

[Tomi Lahren]

No, I disagree.

[Michael Knowles]

You say no. Why not? That sounds great.

[Tomi Lahren]

I would have never wanted to get Married at age 22. 22 year old me and 32 year old me are completely different human beings.

[Michael Knowles]

But I'm saying, yes, they are. But, but I'm saying what if you grew up in, you know, 1943? Well, then people would have been in World War I.

[Tomi Lahren]

Do you think that some people though, in that not just generation, but generations? Yes. I would agree with you that marriage is long lasting, more virtuous behavior. However, how many of those marriages should there have been a divorce and they were just too proud not to get a divorce.

[Michael Knowles]

I'm totally opposed to divorce. I'm totally opposed in all circumstances. But I see your point. Some of those marriages, we're not great.

[Tomi Lahren]

We all know certain grandparents that have been together for 60 years and they.

[Michael Knowles]

Just will not succeed.

[Tomi Lahren]

They probably shouldn't have made it past 10.

[Michael Knowles]

Yeah, yeah, right. And it wouldn't have in today's culture. But when you say 22 year old Tommy and 30 year old Tommy are totally different creatures, of course, but. And therefore 22 year old Tommy shouldn't have married 23 year old or whatever your husband. But why? What was the difference? Could there have been a world in which 22 year old Tommy could have had all the success and all the great stuff, but also been excited and ready to get married?

[Tomi Lahren]

No.

[Michael Knowles]

No. Why not?

[Tomi Lahren]

I started first of all. I started when I was 21. So I started very young. But I was not ready at that time to settle down. And I was not ready until I was 28 when I met my husband. I was not ready to settle down.

[Michael Knowles]

Why not?

[Tomi Lahren]

It would not have worked because I didn't want that.

[Michael Knowles]

You were working too much, traveling too much.

[Tomi Lahren]

No, I did not want that. I did not want to be locked down. I did not want to be settled down.

[Michael Knowles]

That's what I'm saying though. Why not?

[Tomi Lahren]

That just wasn't what I wanted. It just wasn't.

[Michael Knowles]

I agree. Me too. I mean, one of my few regrets, I was actually talking to, I've talked to a lot of people who are actually fairly prominent in Public life. But I won't say their names and embarrass them. But people have told me, you know, one of my big regrets, I hear this a lot. I wish I'd gotten married younger. And I think that to myself, and I think, look in the scope of Providence, it all works out as God wants. So I'm not. I don't stay up at night over this. But it is kind of a regret of mine, too. If I was ready to get married at 28, why wasn't I ready to get married at 22, 23? Because I wanted to go stay out later at more bars, carouse, like, okay, I mean, it's kind of fun, but I don't. Was that good for me? I don't know if that was good for me.

[Tomi Lahren]

I'm gonna tell you. Here's a reality show reference for you. I watch a lot of reality tv. I love it. I don't know if you've watched the Secret Lives of Mormon Wives or not, but these young ladies get married at age 22 to their husbands that are 22, and they've got three kids by 24, 23. And it doesn't work out because they cheat on each other. They want something else they want to experience elsewhere.

[Michael Knowles]

But that's reality tv. They need that drama. You're not gonna hear the stories of the people who have a good marriage. That wouldn't make reality tv.

[Tomi Lahren]

I don't think that. Exception and rule again. Yeah, there's always exceptions to the rule. I don't think many people who get married very young and have kids very young, I think that they probably experience some level of angst. Not everybody, but I think many do. And whether they're honest about it, I don't know whether they won't admit it to themselves until they're 55, perhaps.

[Michael Knowles]

Yeah, the grass is always greener. No, I know people who got married in 1920, spit out six kids, couldn't be happier. I've seen it happen, and I think that's how society worked for a long time. But to your point, you know, I was an atheist for 10 years. I was a libertarian. I admit on camera sometimes I was a libertarian for a little bit, and never a liberal, but a libertarian. And it is helpful to me now that I was single for some years, that I was an atheist, that I was a libertarian. It's helpful. It's also harmful because you have the scars of bad habits, but it's helpful in the sense that there ain't no greener grass on the other side I've seen the other side of the fence. I know how that grass is. It's not great. I understand that point, but can't you. I guess the ultimate question we're talking about here is, does one have to make mistakes or can we learn from others mistakes?

[Tomi Lahren]

We're not fallible humans who make mistakes. I think we have to. I think we have to make mistakes.

[Michael Knowles]

What about Jim Mattis, the general? Former defense secretary under Trump won. He said, I read a lot of books so that other people make mistakes for me, so I don't need to make those mistakes that they made.

[Tomi Lahren]

That's great in battle, but in life, good luck. You're gonna make a mistake. We've all made them. We're stronger for them. I believe that to my very core.

[Michael Knowles]

But would you avoid, like tomorrow? Not to belabor the point, but if you say there's some terrible mistake you could make tomorrow. Yeah, but I'm warning you about it now so you don't have to make it. Would you still choose to make mistakes or you're better for and stronger for it, or would you try to avoid it?

[Tomi Lahren]

That wouldn't be a natural situation, though.

[Michael Knowles]

Of course it is. That's okay, because I would.

[Tomi Lahren]

I could avoid it. I don't think you.

[Michael Knowles]

But that's what moral education is.

[Tomi Lahren]

I don't think you make mistakes knowing that you're about to make a mistake. In most cases, I think it's the hindsight that provides that knowledge.

[Michael Knowles]

Yeah, yeah. No, but that's what I'm saying. If growing up, you know, you said, hey, here's a rich.

[Tomi Lahren]

I'll make it easier if you could tell me, hey, you could go back to when you were with so and so.

[Michael Knowles]

Yes.

[Tomi Lahren]

And you could have completely avoided that stupid ex boyfriend. You could have eliminated these three guys and gone straight to your husband. Would you have?

[Michael Knowles]

Yes.

[Tomi Lahren]

No.

[Michael Knowles]

No. You had led me on to say you were gonna say yes.

[Tomi Lahren]

No, because I learned and I grew from all of them. It's everything that was needed to me to get to the point that I was. That I was ready to get married and that I know that now. I'm.

[Michael Knowles]

Okay.

[Tomi Lahren]

Hey.

[Michael Knowles]

Okay, that is as blunt an answer. There were some girls I might have taken, I might have gotten off the list, but. Okay, that's an honest answer.

[Tomi Lahren]

I don't even remember you rapid fire asking.

[Michael Knowles]

It's rapid fire for you. Okay, I'm gonna clear my answer. It's already cleared. Okay. Come on. It's like every time. Do men who never go to the gym have any grounds to advocate that women should stay in shape? Men who never go to the gym, who are those men? Yeah, I'd say some of us actually do have grounds because we're rational creatures and we don't have to go lift weights anyway. That's fine. We'll talk about this later. Would you mind clearing. Is there a good argument for bringing back public executions? Hold on. You laughed, so I want to say. You're going to say no, but was that a fake out? And you could. Could be. Oh, you see? Come on. She laughed, though. It was like a total head fake.

[Tomi Lahren]

I'm very good at this game.

[Michael Knowles]

Yeah. This is awful. This is terrible. Would you sooner attend. Would you. Well, that's a good question. Would you sooner attend a women's march or a march for life? So hold on. The phrasing is, would you sooner attend a women's march than a march for life?

[Tomi Lahren]

Wow, that's a real Sophie's Choice here. First I have to clear up my answer.

[Michael Knowles]

Clear the answer.

[Tomi Lahren]

Read it again. So I miss you.

[Michael Knowles]

Would you sooner attend a women's march than a march for life?

[Tomi Lahren]

Okay.

[Michael Knowles]

We're talking about feminism. We're talking.

[Tomi Lahren]

People never know which way I'm gonna go on these.

[Michael Knowles]

Would you say it? Oh, man. I don't know what I'm gonna call. Ah, come on. Why? Because, first of all, because they're on your team. The pro life people are on your team. The women's march are not.

[Tomi Lahren]

Pro life people are going to smell and look better if I'm gonna put myself into a crowd, which I hate anyway. I'm gonna be honest, too. I'm not showing up to any march.

[Michael Knowles]

Yeah.

[Tomi Lahren]

I don't even like to work out with other people near me.

[Michael Knowles]

I don't like to work out.

[Tomi Lahren]

There's the. The last thing I'm gonna do is put myself in a march. I don't even like to go to concerts and sit in general public. I don't like crowds. I don't like people. You wouldn't catch me there. I love law enforcement. I wouldn't be at a law enforcement march either.

[Michael Knowles]

Yeah, yeah.

[Tomi Lahren]

So I will say this, though. People often get my position on this. Very, very.

[Michael Knowles]

Cause you're pro.

[Tomi Lahren]

I am pro choice, but I'm not personally pro choice. I like the pro life message. If the pro life message is we want to preserve life and we want to encourage people to preserve life, I'm with ya.

[Michael Knowles]

But if you. But as a matter of law, if you want to abort your kid, you can as A matter of law, not as a matter of personal choice.

[Tomi Lahren]

To an extent. Again, I'm not a late term abortion. You're never going to catch me advocating for that even for a like limited government perspective. Right, I'm with you on the pro life cause. Here's the deal. It's not saying that it's not important that it's not a life. It's not that. It's me saying does the government. And actually we're in the anniversary of the repeal of Roe v. Wade, right?

[Michael Knowles]

Yeah, Right.

[Tomi Lahren]

And there's more abortions now than before they repealed the damn thing.

[Michael Knowles]

That's because of the abortion pill. That would have happened anyway. That's like 75% of the abortion pill now, which is a technological change. But I. Look, I grant there have been at the state level laws since. Because the repeal just says go to the states. There are now certain states that say, yeah, we'll have abortion up until the moment of birth.

[Tomi Lahren]

And there are some, like Tennessee that say pretty much basically done. And I agree with that. States rights.

[Michael Knowles]

So hold on. You're more pro life than I thought you were.

[Tomi Lahren]

I'm definitely personally pro life.

[Michael Knowles]

So then why not? If you're.

[Tomi Lahren]

I don't believe that the government solves the problem.

[Michael Knowles]

Why not?

[Tomi Lahren]

Because I. Because I don't.

[Michael Knowles]

Well, the government passes laws. We have laws against murder. We have laws against jaywalking. We have laws against immigration.

[Tomi Lahren]

I understand that.

[Michael Knowles]

Well, loosely, they're not enforced very often.

[Tomi Lahren]

So loosely, I will say this. You criminalize when you murder because you do it with the intent. When I believe that women are in that position that they are getting an abortion, I believe more often than not.

[Michael Knowles]

They don't know what they're doing.

[Tomi Lahren]

It's because they're scared. They don't know what to do. They're poor. I don't believe that they do it because they are gonna murder. I don't believe there's a crowd for that.

[Michael Knowles]

Some do.

[Tomi Lahren]

There's a crowd and it's a disgusting crowd. But I don't believe that it solves the problem. Now I believe that it would solve.

[Michael Knowles]

The problem for the babies.

[Tomi Lahren]

Faith family. Because I don't believe you're gonna not get an abortion because the government says, okay, we have an abortion baby spiked.

[Michael Knowles]

After Roe v. Spiked. Now there were always some illegal abortions, but not many compared to the legal ones. So I'm just saying, look, whatever your view on abortion is, it's one thing, I'm just saying if you're willing to use the government to Enforce laws about taxes, driving, homicide, manslaughter and murder, whatever. Incest, simple assault, drinking underage. We have laws about everything. Why not that? Why is this the one thing we can't have a law about?

[Tomi Lahren]

I think intent matters. And again, late term. We're not talking about late term. You have plenty of time. I think intent matters. Like I said, women that are in that position, I don't believe that they're doing it. When you don't pay your taxes, it's like manslaughter.

[Michael Knowles]

Manslaughter. You don't have an intent to kill someone. You just do it accidentally or, you know, in passion or something.

[Tomi Lahren]

Yeah, well, you usually. You made a pretty egregious mistake.

[Michael Knowles]

Yes.

[Tomi Lahren]

Yeah, Right. I understand your perspective. I just don't think that the government solves the problem. If you want women to choose life, if you want women to either choose life and choose to adopt or choose to be a mother, I believe that you don't do that by government mandate. I believe you do that by faith, fellowship, family, friendship. I think that's the area that you provide love and compassion for and federal legislation.

[Michael Knowles]

No. You would disagree with that?

[Tomi Lahren]

I disagree with you. I don't think it solves the problem now.

[Michael Knowles]

But you would still go to the march for life over the women's march, but no marches generally.

[Tomi Lahren]

I wouldn't go to any march, but I have no problem with a pro life march. It's not like I look at it. Oh, no, no, no. Those are my people. I love that they're passionate about it, and I love that they want to preach pro life values. I think that's great. Now, I don't believe in a federal abortion ban, but I believe in a pro life message.

[Michael Knowles]

Yeah, yeah. Okay. Okay.

[Tomi Lahren]

And I believe that we have been led to believe that you can't believe both things.

[Michael Knowles]

Yeah, yeah.

[Tomi Lahren]

And I think that the majority of Americans believe both things.

[Michael Knowles]

I think the polls are kind of in the middle.

[Tomi Lahren]

That's true.

[Michael Knowles]

All right, well, let's. Maybe. Maybe I can persuade you after our final round.

[Tomi Lahren]

Is JoJo Siwa just the first of many influencers who will soon discover that they were pressured into being gay?

[Michael Knowles]

You told me that, but you saw that I moved so fast. Okay, that's fair. So hold on now. You gotta put your answer that I.

[Tomi Lahren]

Believe in and you believe.

[Michael Knowles]

And I have to guess what you believe. I shouldn't have moved so fast. Cause Tommy obviously got it right. Correct. Okay. All right, Last one. That was an easy one. That was an easy one. Okay, we're Clear. Last one. If it's culturally acceptable for black women to dye their hair blonde, should it also. Sorry. If it's culturally acceptable for black women to dye their hair blonde, should it also be culturally acceptable for white people to wear blackface?

[Tomi Lahren]

Good Lord.

[Michael Knowles]

It's kind of a non sequitur, wouldn't you say? Okay, hold on. I gotta put my answer. You go put your answer, and we'll do the others.

[Tomi Lahren]

Okay, so I'm gonna guess. You have to lock yours in first, and then I gotta guess.

[Michael Knowles]

All right. You gotta lock yours in, too. Okay. Okay. Now I gotta.

[Tomi Lahren]

Now I move yours first, I think.

[Michael Knowles]

Except Tom. So I have an answer in my head that I think you would answer. But you've been faking me out this whole game and. Or have been crushing me.

[Tomi Lahren]

Yeah. Now do you want me to answer?

[Michael Knowles]

You gotta move it to mine.

[Tomi Lahren]

I hope I'm right on that.

[Michael Knowles]

I hope for your sake I'm completely fine with blackface. In some cases, I say completely inseparable. Here's my argument. I remember once there was some blackface controversy came up.

[Tomi Lahren]

You know, there was many of them.

[Michael Knowles]

Yes, there were many. Like, not even blackface. Blackface, like Jimmy Fallon, like, dressed up as Chris Rock or something. And I was in a cab. I was in an Uber. Nice Uber with a black driver. And it came on the radio, and I said, oh, what do you think about that? And he said, oh, man, I don't care. It's all in good fun. I don't. Whatever. I don't care. And that's kind of my view. If you're doing it to be really cruel to any racial group. I think that's quite wrong. To be cruel and rude. But if you're just sort of, you know, having fun, it's fine. I think the Waynes brothers can put on whiteface. I think we can. I can do a little minstrel show. Billy Kersands was the great genius of minstrelsy. He was a black guy. Yeah, that one's gonna get me in a lot of trouble. But whatever, it's fine.

[Tomi Lahren]

I don't think. I think that you're correct. That I don't think many care as much as the loud voices that decry it. However, I just would never do it. I'm not gonna walk into that territory. It just does not seem worth it to me to be canceled for that. That's like. I don't have that desire that badly.

[Michael Knowles]

As a Sicilian. We're basically African ourselves. So if I were lily white, I might have a different answer. Now, folks, listen here. Tommy's new show, Tomi Lahren is Fearless, covers everything from trending political topics to today's pop culture news to sports and everything in between. No topics are off limits. Take a look.

[Tomi Lahren]

Well, folks, we probably could have predicted this, but I want to show you what happens when a religious group, of course, a Christian group, tries to peacefully assemble, hold an event, hold a rally in a deep blue liberal hellhole. Cue the loving, intolerant left. Yes, doing what they naturally do with their loving and unifying message surrounding a poor woman with her infant spewing hate all because Christians wanted to assemble and they had the audacity to do it in some place like Seattle. I know. God forbid.

[Michael Knowles]

The horror. Now you can go check out more of Tommy's content. You probably already follow her. Just statistically speaking. You probably already follow her on Instagram, TommyLauren and YouTube. TommyLauren is fearless. And I will see you. First of all, thank you, Tommy. It was marvelous to see you.

[Tomi Lahren]

Thank you for having me.

[Michael Knowles]

And I will see you next time on yes or no. Also, Tommy completely destroyed me with facts and logic.

[Tomi Lahren]

Sat.