Podcast Summary

The mindbodygreen Podcast

Episode 603: The Science of Sleep, Sex, & Sharing a Bed
Guest: Dr. Wendy Troxel, PhD
Host: Jason Wachob
Date: June 22, 2025

Overview

In this insightful episode, Jason Wachob sits down with Dr. Wendy Troxel, a renowned clinical psychologist and sleep specialist, to uncover the profound influence of sleep on our healthspan, relationships, hormones, sexual health, and emotional well-being. Together, they break down cutting-edge science, discuss the complex dynamics of sleep for couples (including the infamous "sleep divorce"), and offer concrete strategies for overcoming common sleep challenges—especially for women navigating menopause. Dr. Troxel also demystifies sleep tracking wearables, explains why heart rate variability (HRV) matters, and highlights actionable tips for listeners at every stage of life.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

The Central Role of Sleep in Healthspan

• Defining Healthspan
  • Dr. Troxel frames healthspan as "a life fully and richly lived... it's not only about the duration of living, but really... fullness of life across multiple domains." [01:33]
• Why Sleep Is Foundational
  • Sleep impacts physical health, cognitive ability, social connection, and particularly relationship quality ("There's almost no domain of human functioning and health span that doesn't do better under, well, slept conditions." [02:46])

Sleep & Relationships: Benefits, Challenges, and "Sleep Divorce"

• Couples & Sleep: The Forgotten Pillar
  • Sleep is the health behavior couples do most in close proximity—about one-third of life is spent together in bed. [03:21]
  • Challenges are normal: snoring, different preferences (temperature, devices, movement), differing circadian rhythms, children/pets, menopause, pain, and other sleep disorders.
• Impact on Sexual & Relational Health
  • "For each extra hour of sleep a woman gets, she experiences a 14% increase in sexual desire." [06:37]
  • For men, sleep deprivation (just one week of 5-hour nights) drops testosterone by about 10%—"the equivalent of aging a man by about 10 years." [07:38]
  • Good sleep is essential to the relational "building blocks": communication, empathy, problem-solving, emotion regulation. [08:51]
• Compatibility & Communication
  • Alignment in sleep etiquette strengthens relationships; incompatibility is a common but resolvable source of conflict. [09:46]
  • Many couples neglect talking about sleep compatibility explicitly; Dr. Troxel stresses the importance of honest dialogue. [14:57]
    • "It really is turning the sort of tone around and focusing on: this is a... mutually beneficial goal." [16:44]

Science of Sleeping Together vs. Sleeping Apart

• Do Couples Sleep Better Together?

  • Objectively, sleep can be slightly worse when sharing a bed (measured by trackers). Subjectively, though, most people prefer sleeping together due to psychological benefits—closeness, security, oxytocin, etc. [11:12–13:40]
  • When disturbances stack up (e.g., severe snoring), objective costs may outweigh psychological benefits, leading to discussions around separate sleeping arrangements.

• Physical Touch & Oxytocin

  • Physical closeness—even brief cuddling before separating for sleep—releases oxytocin, reducing stress and creating a calming response. [13:40]

Navigating Major Sleep Disruptors

• Menopause and Sleep
  • About 60% of women in menopause experience sleep disturbance, affecting both personal and relational health. [17:24]
    • The duration of menopause is often underestimated; symptoms and disruptions can last up to 10 years.
  • Key strategies: name and discuss challenges, consider temporary sleep separation, explore therapies (HRT, CBT-I), and be creative/flexible.
    • “Sometimes labeling what’s happening can be very helpful among couples. I use the term ‘slangry’... people’s moods really go down the tubes when you’re sleep deprived.” [18:37]
• Sleep Etiquette for Everyone
  • Essentials: cool, dark room; mindful of screens, meals, and alcohol; keep activity light at night; avoid heavy late meals; avoid strenuous exercise near bedtime. [20:05]
• Addressing Racing Thoughts
  • Dr. Troxel’s top tool: "scheduled worry exercise”—take 15 min in the evening to pen all worries, then “close the book” before bed. Practiced for two weeks, this reduces bedtime mind-racing. [21:13]

Menopause-Specific Sleep Strategies

• Temperature Regulation
  • Cooling pads, lighter bedding, and keeping rooms at 65-68°F are especially helpful against hot flashes and night sweats. [24:48]
• Handling 3AM Wake-Ups
  • Waking up at night is normal; "it’s the inability to fall back to sleep that becomes a problem."
    • Get out of bed after 20-30 minutes awake, engage in a low-light but engaging activity, and only return to bed once sleepy to break the frustration-cycle. [25:57]
  • Don’t train your body to wake earlier than desired; consistently practicing stimulus control can improve sleep over time. [29:40]

Wearables, Data, and Perfecting Sleep

• Proper Use of Sleep Trackers
  • Trackers are excellent for awareness and tracking trends, not for fixating on nightly numbers or achieving arbitrary “perfect” scores. [33:07]
    • “Never look at it on a nightly basis as any sort of absolute value. I really discourage people from getting overly concerned about a single night's data.” [34:42]
• What to Focus On?
  • Don’t obsess over REM or deep sleep specifically—consumer wearables are not accurate for stages, and no intervention boosts a specific stage. [37:34]
  • Instead, overall sleep patterns, regularity, and HRV (heart rate variability) are the most insightful and reliably measured stats. [37:34, 41:05]
• Heart Rate Variability (HRV)
  • “HRV is a good metric of my emotion regulator... it doesn’t just start at night. It’s really from the time you wake up, how are you engaging those regulatory mechanisms in your body?” [43:20]
  • HRV is sensitive to behaviors you can control, like alcohol intake, and correlates with deep/restful sleep.

The Bigger Picture & Future of Sleep Science

• Cultural Shifts
  • In the past 15 years, there’s been a revolution in sleep awareness, but real solutions and interventions remain a work in progress. [46:11]
• Research Frontiers
  • Next: evidence-based interventions to selectively amplify deep or REM sleep; upstream interventions, societal policy (school start times, shift work), and targeted treatment for menopause-related disruptions. [47:16]

Kids, Teens, & School Start Times

• Teenage Circadian Shifts
  • Teen melatonin is released about 2 hours later than in adults; early school times are at odds with biology, resulting in widespread sleep deprivation. [49:07]
• Call to Action
  • Delayed start times support academic and emotional well-being in teens and families. Data is robust and longstanding, but widely ignored by school policy. [51:32]

Memorable Quotes & Timestamps

• “There's almost no domain of human functioning and health span that doesn't do better under, well, slept conditions.”
  — Dr. Wendy Troxel [02:46]

• “For each extra hour of sleep a woman gets, she experiences a 14% increase in sexual desire.”
  — Dr. Wendy Troxel [06:37]

• “A week of sleep restriction in healthy young men ... will show a reduction in testosterone by about 10%. That's the equivalent of aging a man by about 10 years.”
  — Dr. Wendy Troxel [07:38]

• “We rarely as a culture think about ... how compatible we are in the roughly eight hours per day that we spend in this unconscious state that we call sleep.”
  — Dr. Wendy Troxel [09:53]

• “It really is turning the sort of tone around and focusing on: this is a... mutually beneficial goal.”
  — Dr. Wendy Troxel [16:44]

• “If you wake up in the middle of the night and you find that you're not able to fall back to sleep within 20 to 30 minutes...the best thing to do is actually get out of bed, go to another room ... and engage in some relaxing but distracting activity.”
  — Dr. Wendy Troxel [26:22]

• “Never look at [wearable sleep data] on a nightly basis as any sort of absolute value.”
  — Dr. Wendy Troxel [34:41]

• “REM and deep sleep...are the dimensions that...sleep tracking devices are least validated at measuring. They're not terrible, but they are not the gold standard ... And we don't really know what to do about it.”
  — Dr. Wendy Troxel [37:34]

• "A healthy sleep profile is like a healthy diet. It does not consist of broccoli alone."
  — Dr. Wendy Troxel [39:42]

• "Sleep just doesn't start at 7:30pm. Sleep starts the moment you wake up."
  — Jason Wachob [42:49]

• “Around the time of puberty, teenagers see about a two hour delay in the release of the hormone melatonin...meaning that teenagers naturally, biologically are predisposed to go to bed later and wake up later ... the average school start time in the US is about 8:03am ... as a society we are setting a constraint on the opportunity for our teenagers to get the sleep that their developing bodies and brains desperately need.”
  — Dr. Wendy Troxel [49:07]

Sectional Timestamps for Key Segments

• [01:33] — The role of sleep in maximizing healthspan
• [03:21] — Couples & sleep: challenges, opportunities
• [06:37] — Sleep’s impact on sexual health & hormones
• [11:12] — Do couples really sleep better together?
• [13:40] — The neurophysiology of touch/oxytocin in sleep
• [14:57] — How to approach sleep issues as a couple
• [17:24] — Menopause & sleep: challenges and solutions
• [20:05] — "Sleep etiquette" best practices & the importance of mindset
• [21:13] — Scheduled worry exercise: handling racing thoughts
• [24:48] — Menopause-specific recommendations
• [33:07] — Sleep wearables: benefits & pitfalls
• [37:34] — What sleep data is (and isn’t) useful
• [41:05] — HRV: why it matters, how to use the data
• [46:11] — The future of sleep science
• [49:07] — Teen sleep science & school start times

Resources & Further Learning

• Wendy Troxel’s website: wendytroxel.com
• Books:
  • Sharing the Covers: Every Couple’s Guide to Better Sleep
• TED Talks:
  • On school start times and adolescent sleep
  • On couples and sleep

This episode is packed with science-backed insights and welcoming, down-to-earth advice for anyone looking to improve not only their sleep, but also their relationships, mood, and resilience. Dr. Troxel’s approach balances science with empathy, making her tips as practical as they are profound.