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The Mindful Marketing Podcast (Formerly Known As The Savvy Social Podcast)
Cracking the Social Media Algorithm Code With Ruthie Sterrett [The Consistency Corner Podcast]
00:39:08
I'm excited to share my guest episode on the Consistency Corner Podcast with Ruthie Sterrett! In this episode, we tackle a topic I know many of you wonder about—the ever-mysterious social media algorithm. We break down how it works, how to...
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- [00:01]
A
Welcome to episode number 337 of the Mindful Marketing Podcast. In the month of December every year, I bring you guest appearances on other podcasts, both as a way to share what I'm doing out in the world at wide, but also to give myself a little break and walk the talk that I preach so much here on this very podcast. And today, I'm excited to highlight my guest appearance on the Consistency Corner Podcast. Ruthie and I sat down to talk about social media algorithms. If you've ever felt like they've left you scratching your head, this episode is for you. Ruthie and I dive into the world of algorithms, breaking down how they work and how you can make them work for you. We talk about why understanding the algorithm is essential for optimizing your content so that you reach all people. We talk about how to tailor your content to the different platforms which can get you better results. I talk about the benefits of outsourcing social media. I'm a huge fan of this, but I also want to help you decide if it's the right move for you and your business. We talk about why genuine social, like engaging and building relationships is a game changer for visibility. And I share with you the role of clear brand values and personal development in your social media success. So if you're ready to approach social media with a more intentional strategy, this episode of the Consistency Corner Podcast is for you. Let's dive in.
- [01:31]
B
All right, welcome back to another episode of the Consistency Corner Podcast. I'm really pumped today for our conversation with Andrea Jones, who I actually heard as a guest speaker in a virtual summit. And I was taking a walk, and I was listening to her speak about Mr. Al, who we're gonna. We're gonna talk about today, and you're gonna get to know. And I was like, yes, this is conversations that more people need to be having, particularly those of us in the marketing space and in the social media space to let people know about, because we all can scroll and we can all see the tips and tricks and hacks and people talking about beating the algorithm or figuring out the algorithm. But, like, what does that actually mean? Well, we're here to talk about that, and Andrea is going to spill the beans on that. She's a social media strategist who helps brands with bold personalities, bold opinions, and bold ideas and make bold moves towards elevating their thought leadership and growing their business using the power of social media. So I'm excited to get in. Andrea, welcome to the show. Thank you for being here today.
- [02:34]
A
Yes, thank you so much for having me. I love talking about Mr. Al, so I'm excited to dive in.
- [02:39]
B
Yes. Before we get into our conversation on Mr. Al, can you share a little bit about your business journey and how you got into being a social media strategist?
- [02:48]
A
Yeah, so I'm like an OG Internet user. I started my first blog in 2024, which makes this year 20, which is just wild.
- [02:57]
B
You said 2024.
- [02:59]
A
Oh, 2004. Blame the pregnancy brain.
- [03:03]
B
There you go. Okay. 2004. Wow. That is OG.
- [03:07]
A
Oh, gee. Yeah, this was back when it was not cool. I started my YouTube channel 2007, and my friends were like, you're doing what? You're posting videos online? That's weird, right? But I met my husband online, so it's part of the story is we created a video together, then we kept talking and fell in love. And then I moved from Atlanta, Georgia to Toronto, Canada. The tundra, the frozen.
- [03:35]
B
Yes. Did you move during the winter?
- [03:38]
A
Yeah, I moved on March 1, and I was shocked that there was snow on the ground. And that was one of the years where the snow stayed until, like, end of April. And I was like, what have I done? I must really left you. No. Yes. Ten years later, still here. I live in Niagara Falls now. But that move really launched my business. So PR that I worked in hospitality, I was put on, like, the social media teams at the time, but this was 2011, so it wasn't really like, we had Facebook and Twitter, and that's about it. Brands weren't even on Instagram yet at that point. And so I launched my business offering social media services in 2014, and it grew from there. I started off freelancing, doing wearing a tenant hats, and now we have an agency where we offer done for you services for our clients. And then I teach our same material on the education side of the business in the savvy social school and on my podcast.
- [04:36]
B
Yeah. Awesome. So you've really seen throughout the course of your career the changes in the algorithm and how at any given time, if somebody says, well, the algorithm likes this or the algorithm likes that, you're like, whoa, hold on a second. So for people who are, like, struggling to understand what the algorithm wants. Let's talk about that. And does it even matter?
- [05:00]
A
Yeah, and it does matter. So, you know, we. We come from a time where things used to be in chronological order. Like, they were shown to you in the order, reverse order that it was posted. So you started off with what someone just posted and then scrolled back down. You could keep Scrolling forever until the beginning of what everyone posted. Right. That quickly became overwhelming for users because you would see maybe posts from the past hour or two, depending on how many people you followed. And you certainly weren't discovering new content. It was only based on who you followed. So enter Mr. Al, the algorithm, who is basically AI. He's a machine. He's behind the scenes. He has both, like, a hero complex and a villain complex. So on the hero side, he's trying to reward the right. Reward the right content that the platform wants to see, which means we're, like, we're liking it, we're sharing it, we're commenting. And then he can be a little bit of a villain and a little bit of a bully because he goes, well, nobody liked this post, so I'm not showing it to anybody else. Right. So he has the dynamic, the two sides to him. And so as a business owner, as a content creator, we have to be mindful of, like, what he wants so that we can hopefully get on his hero side and not his villain side.
- [06:26]
B
Yeah. Because you can use that additional support once you figure it out. But I think it's really important that we figure out a way to do that in a way that is authentic to our brand, voice and our personality. So can you talk a little bit about the importance of that and not just trying to do what everybody else is doing? Because it looks like it's working for them.
- [06:47]
A
Yeah. Awesome. Yeah. I'll give an example from one of my clients. So she is a life coach. Um, her most viral video has nothing to do with her business. Uh, she got a video that got over 2 million views on TikTok. And at the time, we were like, yay, this is awesome. But it had nothing to do with her business, had no impact on selling her offers, on selling her or. Or growing her list or anything like that. So when we think about what the algorithm wants, I mean, yes, we can post things that get a ton of views, but ultimately, we have our own goals about how we want to show up in the world. One of my personal examples as well is I don't really post my kids on social media. I do one post a year. At Christmas time, y'all can see the Christmas photo, and then with this new baby coming, y'all will have seen already the baby photo. That's it. There's no more. I know for a fact those are my most highly engaged posts. Okay. Like, but I'm not pimping out my kid to sell my stuff. So that's just, like, my Personal boundary. So when you think about, like, there's this balance between. With the algorithm wants, like, everyone loves babies. We love the baby pictures. I could post baby pictures every day and people would love them, but that's not serving me and I don't want to put my kid on display like that. So there's a balance between, you know, what the algorithm wants and then what my. My people want. And typically, the posts that have the most conversion for me don't necessarily have the highest number of views. They I'm looking at other metrics on Instagram, for instance. I love looking at and shares. The algorithm also loves looking at saves and shares. You may get fewer of them than likes and comments, and saves and shares don't necessarily help you go viral. But those are the types of indicators that show the algorithm that people are interested in your post. And they're indicators to us as, as business owners, as content creators, that, that people are actually like, learning from consuming, finding our content valuable. And so there is a balance to like giving the algorithm what it wants and also doing you need to do.
- [09:00]
B
As a business owner well and understanding how social media works as part of your overall marketing strategy. So, like, what is social media's job in your marketing puzzle? What piece and role is it filling? Because it shouldn't be filling all of them. Right. Because we don't own it.
- [09:20]
A
Yes. It is so fickle. Like, sometimes Mr. Al is really nice and will like, randomly take one of your posts and you'll be like, oh my gosh, this posted amazing. And then you'll do the exact same thing. And Mr. Al's like, we're not sharing this one out. And so it can be very fickle. So social media plays more of a role in the top of your marketing funnel, where it can be a great discovery engine, because again, Mr. Al can help match you to the right people and it can be a great relationship builder. So as you are finding new people, they're getting to know you. But I always say, let's move them along into something else. For us who have podcasts, like, we want them to listen to the podcast we want, or if you have an email list, we want to get them on the email list. You know, we want to move them into more intimate marketing avenues because those are way less dedicated by algorithms and people have to opt in to access them. So they're also very dedicated to consuming those content pieces. And so, yeah, it definitely plays a very specific role in your. In your sales funnel.
- [10:26]
B
Yeah. So in terms of the algorithm and even not just the part that social media plays, but the different parts of social media. So when we think about it, like, obviously each platform has its own algorithm, but each component within the platform has its own algorithm. Stories has an algorithm. Reels has an algorithm. The feed has an algorithm. The Explore page has an algorithm. How does, like, somebody keep up with all of that?
- [10:55]
A
Yeah, it can be very challenging for business owners. I actually think Instagram is become too complicated. Like, if we think about some of the other platforms, like, they're way more simplified and I think it's easier to actually create content there. But Instagram remains a favorite. It's one of my favorites as well. But each of those categories plays a different role. So Instagram reels typically is about discovery. And you'll see this as you scroll through your feed. Instagram's like, how about this reel about toddlers eating food? And I'm like, yes, I'm watching it. Right? And so as a business owner, you want your reel to be right there in people's feeds, and that's Instagram actively matching it based on user behavior. So reels typically are for discovery, typically, and that's like the top of its own funnel. Within Instagram, your feed posts can straddle the line of discovery and relationship building. So sometimes you'll also see like a carousel or a static image post in your feed. But more often than not, we're served reels from people we don't follow. So scroll through your feed and take a look at that. So think about that. When you're creating your content reels, it's going out to people who don't know you. So you may want to keep your educational content focused on them and not so much on you. Your feed posts, they can be discoverable, but most often than not, it's people who already follow you or even people who are thinking about follow you and they head over to your page. Stories is almost always people who already follow you. And so you can be a lot more intimate there. You can talk like you're talking to a friend. You can share a little bit more of the behind the scenes and the things that people who, you know, they already have a relationship with you, so they're interested in it there. So reels feed, post stories, typically, that's how it goes. All of those things can be on the discovery page, the discover pages in Instagram, but most often you'll see reels and static posts there. And most users don't go to the discover page. They're looking at their feed. And Adam Aseri, the CEO of Instagram, recently released a stat that most people are actually looking at stories first.
- [13:10]
B
So it's at the top of the screen.
- [13:13]
A
So it's at the top of the screen. Yeah. And so we kind of want to guide people. Like if they found us to reel and they're following our feed, like maybe sometimes we want to say, like, go watch the stories. Right. And like, like have a call to action there to drive them to the stor. But all of those have algorithms too. Like stories. There are certain people who, I watch their stories every day. And so they're at the top. The algorithm's like, oh, she's watching this one every day. We're going to put it right up front. But then sometimes I see stories from people. Oh, I haven't seen them in a while. That's the algorithm mixing it up a little bit and going, okay, so she hasn't seen this one a while. Let's test it out and see. And if I don't click it, it's going back to the back of the line and the algorithm's not going to show it to me anymore. The thing, the thing I'll say to like in this thought about the algorithm is that it is trying to personalize experience for every individual person. So your experience with the algorithm is going to be different than someone else's and it's all based on your behavior. So if you're seeing posts you don't like, you need to retrain your algorithm. And the same is happening for every single person as they're. They're going through a platform like Instagram.
- [14:23]
B
Yeah. And I think one of the interesting things that you said was how each component has a different algorithm and you can really think about it in terms of the funnel of attract, nurture and convert. And so when I know, when I work with clients, like we talk about, for your overall strategy, what tools or I will say, what activations or platforms are you using to attract reels might be one of them. But we're not going to say social media. We're going to say specifically the type and platform. And so let's say there's somebody who's, they're like, you know what? Instagram is just like, not my thing. I'm not over there, but I'm on LinkedIn. Like now we have a whole nother set of components and platforms and algorithms to learn and understand. And I think LinkedIn is like the silent, underrated partner that we all need to be like buddying up with lately.
- [15:12]
A
Yeah, I'm loving LinkedIn again. I find it's way simpler to create content over there versus Instagram. Instagram has gotten so complicated. I love it. I love it. It's my favorite. But if it brand new business owner came today, I'd be like, well, let's start with something a little bit easier to like grasp. And LinkedIn's algorithm I find requires way less content. So sometimes you'll see posts in the feed for a week, two weeks, three weeks after it's been posted. So you don't have to post every day. You could post once a week or even once a month and still get really good traction on LinkedIn. Um, and LinkedIn's algorithm is very different from Instagram's. They like text based content. They want to see thought leadership in a way that's consumable by the person. There's no stories on LinkedIn. They tested it out, it didn't work for their brands. But the similarities in the algorithm are still there. It wants people to engage and all the algorithms want people to stay on their app. So one of the challenges right now with LinkedIn is, well, they just fixed it this year. There didn't used to be a link in the bio. So you're adding links in your post, but it's like people are leaving LinkedIn and then the algorithm's like, hey, every time you post people leave me. I don't want that. And so it would devalue your post. Whereas now you can say link in bio. Because there is a link in bio. It kind of tricks the algorithm a little bit because they're still on LinkedIn for a sec and then they can leave. And it's really focused on the conversation and the engagement. So the algorithm wants to see people engaging with your content. So there are a lot of similarities with between LinkedIn and Instagram, but LinkedIn is more business focused. Focused. It's slightly more professional. I will say that people still let loose over there. Video is on the rise over there too. So I repurpose my reels over to LinkedIn and I still see some really good engagement over there. And more people are using it on mobile than desktop now. So it is the underdog. But I think it's gonna have its time in the sun.
- [17:17]
B
Yeah, I think it's interesting too to think about your audience and when they pick up their phone or they type in the, you know, into their search bar on their computer, LinkedIn.com or instagram.com like what is their intention? You know, oftentimes we're picking up Instagram because we want to laugh, we want to see a funny meme or a funny reel, we want to connect with a friend, we want to catch up with our community. We're going to LinkedIn maybe more to learn or see what's out there or catch up on industry news. You know, it's so interesting to me just to even have conversations with people inside other industries of like, how are you using this platform?
- [18:01]
A
Yeah, LinkedIn is definitely more professionally minded and there's not a lot of mixture of content. Whereas on Instagram I mentioned earlier that I'm getting like toddler eating videos. I don't, I don't see those on LinkedIn. Right. So it's very focused on business. Whereas Instagram and even other platforms like Facebook for me is a huge mix. Same with threads now for me is a huge mix. LinkedIn is very focused and so I do find it's easier to be business minded as well in the room.
- [18:34]
B
Yeah. And the other thing too, to understand, like, I think when we're, particularly when people are comparing maybe their social media content and journey to competitors or even industry leaders, like understanding the value of the time people have put in. So if you're starting out, like you're on chapter one or chapter two or chapter three of your business journey and you're over here following Amy Porterfield, who's like the og. She's been all platforms since they started. It's not the same because she has equity in the platform already. Right.
- [19:08]
A
Yeah. And the algorithm actually does prefer that. Someone asked me the other day if they should start over their Instagram from scratch. And even their LinkedIn, they were like, should I just delete it and start a new one? No, the algorithm likes that you've been here for a long time. They don't like a bunch of new accounts every time you create something new or shift or pivot. Um, so if you can keep your same account, because that history there does, does impact the algorithm as well.
- [19:33]
B
Yeah, for sure. So when we talk about thought leadership, I think this is an interesting concept that those of us in the marketing space like really understand. We get it, we see the value in thought leadership style content. But I know that for people outside the marketing space, I know sometimes some of the clients that I talk to, they're like, thought leadership. Like, what is that? I just need to sell my stuff. So talk to me a little bit about, like, why thought leadership is important and how we can use thought leadership style content to help optimize social media.
- [20:08]
A
Yeah. This is a Challenging one. And it really depends on where you are in your stage of business. And it's why sometimes I really emphasize, if someone's coming to social media today, it's going to take a while before you get clients from it. There are other marketing levers you can pull to get clients faster than social media. Social media is a long term play that can. It's like investing. You put in $20 today and then in 10 years you'll have a thousand dollars. Right. Like there's going to be some investment there. It is a long term play. But thought leadership is really you sharing your expertise online. And a great example of this is someone who I started following recently. Her name is Dr. Becky, and she talks a lot about, like, reparenting yourself as you're parenting your child. Y'all can tell what stage of life I'm in now, right?
- [21:01]
B
If y'all have kids, go follow Dr. Becky. Dr. Becky, get inside, read her book, listen to her podcast. So good.
- [21:08]
A
Yes. And she does social media so well for thought leadership. Right. So she's sharing her expertise in her industry with this kind of background expectation that you will buy her book and you'll join her paid community. Right. And she has digital products. She's not leading with, hi, I'm Dr. Becky. Buy my book, because that feels a little bit aggressive sometimes. She's leading with, hey, are you, are you having this issue with your child? Here's what it could mean, right? Or, hey, here's something I observe with one of my clients. She'll even do examples like role playing. Like, here's what this could sound like. And it helps us as a viewer recognize ourselves in that post and go, I'm going through that exact same thing right now. I thought I was the only one. I'm listening. Okay. And then you're in her world and you're listening to her podcast and you're buying her books and you're joining her community. And so the same is for you as, as a creator, a business owner, an expert, a thought leader. You're sharing your expertise in a way that the other person can see themselves in that content, get curious and go down the road. And I think this is a lot like building a friendship or any relationship, dating, whatever, because you could, like meet someone and go, oh, we're friends. And for some, for most people, it's kind of like, that's really weird and aggressive. And I don't know you. But for a lot of us, how we caught our best friends is it happens slowly over time. Right? You meet Someone and you're like, let's go for coffee, and then we're going for dinner. And now we're hanging out each other's house, binge watching RuPaul's Drag Race. Like, whatever it is that you do with your friends, that. That's the evolution of it. And not every friend will be a best friend. Not every person you meet will get to that level. And so social media relationship building is very much the same. Thought leadership is very much the same. Some people may say surface level, and they may only engage on your social media platforms, but we're looking for those people who want to take it deeper. They want to take it to the next level. They want to get to best friend status. And the only way for them to find you is for you to show up as an expert and help them see themselves in the content that you're sharing.
- [23:32]
B
Yeah. So, you know, you talked about, like that, finding your best friend, and you're nurturing your people on social media and those relationships. Let's talk about the idea of being social on social media and how that in and of itself can actually help the algorithm. Help you.
- [23:51]
A
Yes. The algorithm does not like a post and go situation. He is a little needy, Mr. Alice, and he wants all of our attention all of the time. So as much attention as you can give him, he will reward you for that. So this is why, you know, some people say if you post five times a day, you know, that's a strategy that some people say, to me, that's exhausting. I don't have that much energy to post five times a day. However, behind that strategy is the amount of time you're spending in the app. App. Okay. So that time commitment be helpful. And it's a consistent daily time commitment. So typically I recommend 10 to 20 minutes a day to start, and then you can scale up. And in those 10 to 20 minutes a day, we're hanging out, we're finding new people, we're connecting with them. And I like to do this personally with referral partnerships. So, you know, people who can send me clients, and especially in my kind of vertical, people who need help with social media, they may have trouble finding me on social media because they're not on social media. I have a little bit of a catch 22 situation over here. Yeah. So I'm connecting with other people, web designers, podcast hosts, brand experts, and I'm building out my network of people who also serve my same client. To me, these are my peers, my colleagues. And so it actually makes it a lot of Fun for me to connect with them because we're talking shop. Right. Most of my time on social media is spent in direct messages and I actually think that's very helpful for business owners. Building relationships with people because it is individual, is one to one. Is it scalable? No, it's very hard to do. It's not scalable. I've seen a lot of people talk about automations and creating spreadsheets to keep track of people. I don't have a spreadsheet for my friends, so I don't have a spreadsheet for my peers either. I just make sure I'm very consistently showing up. They see my content, I see their content and I just have conversations with them. If you apply this strategy, though, my warning is not to be salesy. And that's kind of like the underlying current of a lot of the things we're talking about today is it could be. We've all had the messages. People come in the DMs and they're like, you should buy this. And you're like, I don't, I don't know you. I don't want this. In fact, now I have. I'm having a negative interaction with you instead of one that could have been neutral or positive. And so there is this desire as business owners that comes from a really good place because we want to sell our stuff and we know it could help people, we know it could be valuable and we don't want to be like too aggressive with it as well. So it's a conversation to see where things go. We don't want to assume anything about anybody.
- [26:44]
B
Yeah. And I think also knowing, going back to like your whole marketing strategy and what other pieces and parts are you using if you're like, oh my gosh, I don't want to DM anybody, that doesn't sound fun for me. Like, yuck. Okay, what else are you doing? Are you having coffee chats with people? Are you going to community events? Are you emailing people? Like, what other ways can you build relationships? That's just one tool that you could use. And when you understand how it works, great. But if you don't want to do it, that's okay. Let's do other things, right?
- [27:18]
A
Yes. For those listening, I'm doing like giant head nods. I 100% agree. I was talking to one of my mentees earlier last week and I kept recommending her, like, do these like private communities. And she kept resisting and it finally got to the point where she was like, andrea, I just want to be in person. I was like, oh, oh, done. Forget everything I've said before. That's not for you. Let's get you in person and like, meeting people and networking. Yes.
- [27:47]
B
Yes. One of the things that I find when people really resist being consistent at something, it's because it's not aligned with their values or what they enjoy or what lights them up. And I'm not saying that, like, we should never try new things because you don't know what you don't know, but once you've tried it and you're like, this isn't for me, like, okay, let's adjust. Let's pick something that we can be consistent with. Because all of this stuff, like you talked about, like, it being investing, it's like putting little drops in the bucket each time. And if we can't consistently put drops in the bucket, we're never gonna fill it. And so then we can spend our time and those drops somewhere else where we can get the results we're looking for.
- [28:27]
A
Yes. Oh, I love that bucket analogy. That's beautiful.
- [28:30]
B
Yeah, I love a good analogy. My husband is like, oh, my gosh, enough with your analogies. But, but, you know, I'm glad you appreciated that one.
- [28:37]
A
I do. I love a good analogy too. So I recognize one when I see one.
- [28:42]
B
Well, my last question for you is, in your opinion, when is it time to outsource social media? And when we say outsourcing, like, what does that even mean? And what does a business owner or business leader need to, like, consider before stepping in and saying, I'm going to have somebody else do this for me?
- [28:59]
A
Yeah. And especially if you're the face of your company, your brand, your business, it can be challenging to figure out, how do I even outsource this? There's kind of three different levels to this. The first is getting support with smaller things. You know, having someone edit a video for you, having someone write some, like, maybe pull some captions from your podcast episodes. Having an assistant who can, like, upload posts for you or help you stay on top of the inbox. So those are kind of of lower level tasks that you can outsource individually. You'll know you're ready when you can tell someone else what to do. Okay, so you typically have to do it first, and then you can go, okay, I have a system here. Replicate this. Right? And so that's how you'll know you're ready. You also know you're ready when you have the income to be able to support it. I'm a huge fan of this People outsource things too quickly sometimes and not in the right order. And social media, especially if you're a personal brand, can be challenging to outsource. Maybe initially you need a bookkeeper instead of a social media manager.
- [30:02]
B
Right.
- [30:03]
A
So it depends on your business model and how much revenue you're bringing in. But the next level of that is a social media manager. Typically this is a freelancer or it can be an in house person. They have more strategy behind them than an assistant and they can take over some of the, the whole pieces of social media. So they're writing captions, they're telling you what videos to, they're then editing them and uploading them. Because it's an individual person, they can be really embedded into your process, into your system. It's a little more expensive than just an assistant. And so I want you to make sure that you understand the role social media plays in your business. First, you have to understand the value it's bringing your business. Otherwise you'll always look at that line item and be like, ugh, I'm paying too much for this, right?
- [30:50]
B
Yes. Oh my gosh, I'm going to get on my soapbox for a second. It because you and I both know in the social media management world, there are people out there that are like, can't I just like hire my college neighbor and pay them like 200 bucks a month to do this for me? No. Like this is a job that you want a professional to do. You wouldn't hire your college neighbor to come rewire your house if you needed electrical done. Like it's the same level of expertise in just a different industry.
- [31:16]
A
Yes, 100,000%. Like having someone with that expertise is not cheap. Okay. Because they're, they're wearing a lot of hats. Writing, editing, creative direction, planning, organizing, video editing. Like there's a lot involved, right. But that person can be integral to helping free up some of your time as well. And then I would say the third level is hiring an agency or high level strategic support. And this one's my favorite because this is where I work. So I'm 100% biased here. But typically this is when you've reached a certain level of success in your business where you probably have a PR team, you probably have, you know, a full time assistant, and you're creating a lot of content, your business is doing really well and you just don't have time to manage someone else. So by hiring an agency, they come with the video editors, the graphic designers, the writers, they're maybe taking things up A notch. They have multiple clients so they have their pulse on, you know, your specific vertical and then you're not having to worry about like hiring and firing multiple people. So the challenge with one single social media manager is if it doesn't work out, you're starting all over again. With an agency, they have the systems in place so you're typically just, you have your one point of contact and then you're dealing with them again. It is pricey. So I would recommend, you know, you're at a certain level of business by then. You have revenue, you have a line item for this, you have a budget for this. You know the impact that social media has on your business. When you do it, you see results in your business. When you don't, don't, you don't. And so, yeah, those are things to think about as you're thinking about hiring.
- [32:59]
B
Yeah. And I think another thing to think about, this is something that I talk with clients a lot about when we're discussing the nine grid strategy is personal brand versus your company brand. And we're going to look at those through a slightly different lens. And so for some companies you don't, you haven't necessarily used a personal brand. For other companies your personal brand has been growing. Now your company is growing. Now it's starting to get too much to manage too. But because you may have individual goals or things that you're doing outside of just the company, it's important to still have both. So that might be another area of like, okay, it's time to get some level of support on one or the other because managing two in and of itself, like becomes a full time job sometimes.
- [33:48]
A
Yeah, it's too much. I don't recommend two accounts like ever two brands, ever one person.
- [33:53]
B
And I would disagree because I would say there are times when two make sense. If you are, and this is actually like I'll, and I'll just say this because this is kind of my sweet spot is more you're a service provider and you've grown your business to the place that like you are not the only one providing the service. You've built a team of service providers. So now like your company has, it's become bigger than just you. But maybe to your point, like I was saying, like if, if you're doing other things, you've got other goals, like you're still doing speaking engagements or like maybe you're going to write a book or maybe someday you're going to start another company because you're like a serial entrepreneur. This is where we might need two. But at that point your company is bringing in enough revenue that it makes sense to have support.
- [34:42]
A
Yes, yes. When you have the second account, you really need someone else to manage it. Right. And if you have the team that that person on the team can really help with that. Yeah, I agree with that.
- [34:51]
B
For a lot of service based companies that I've seen, what happens is they end up asking like the front desk person or the office manager or somebody to handle market and like that person doesn't have time and they don't have the expertise and it's no different than asking your college neighbor to do it. Like if you are a professional level company making seven, eight figures, nine figures a year, maybe it doesn't make sense for you to have an in house marketing team. But that's where like an agency and a strategic partner or a fractional CMO or fractional director of marketing can really make sure that your content and your marketing plan is elevated to the level of service that you're providing your clients. Right?
- [35:33]
A
Yes. Yes. Because that front desk person has so much happening and so much going on that they can do very surface level things that maybe they could do. It's the same level of what they do personally on their account and there's no strategy behind it. So yeah, you can slap up some posts and it can be a little bit of a band aid, but you'll eventually need strategic support for that person for sure.
- [35:55]
B
Oh my gosh. This was such a good conversation. I think you and I could probably nerd out about marketing and social media all day long. But I want to ask a couple fun get to know you questions before we wrap up. And you know we talk a lot about brand values here on the consistency corner. So I would love to hear what's one of your brand values and how did you land on it?
- [36:12]
A
Yes. So one of my favorites is positive communication and it actually started from a personal value. Have you ever heard of the the Clifton strengths finders? Okay, so I took the the CliftonStrengths finders and my number two strength is positivity. And I was like, wait, what? That's a strength? Not everyone looks at the world with rose colored glasses. So when I recognized that I was like, oh, this is a superpower that I didn't even realize that I have. Like I'm like a cheerleader over here for people. And so it became one of our company values is now when we look at how we can champion our clients, we're looking at it through positive communication, social Media can feel very negative. Sometimes marketing can be a negative. Building a business is freaking hard. And so we try to infuse, like, positive communication to everything we do. So, yeah, tactically, that's like a lot of emojis and gifs.
- [37:12]
B
Yes. I love that. I love that. All right, well, because one of my personal values and brand values is around living with a growth mindset and personal development, I always love to ask our guests, what is a favorite personal development book, book, or podcast that you would recommend?
- [37:28]
A
I love my leak's podcast. My taught you. She's amazing. She's a former founder of Curlbox and now talks about more personal development topics. It's amazing. I love it.
- [37:41]
B
Very fun. Very fun. And then what is something that you are really consistent with? And I'll remind everybody that consistent doesn't have to mean constant, but what's something that you're really consistent with, either in your business or your personal life that you're really proud of? Stuff.
- [37:56]
A
Personal life is meditation. I meditate for at least five minutes every day. And then business is my podcast. We're coming up on episode 300. It is the most consistent content I've ever created, and I love it.
- [38:08]
B
Yes, I love that. I love that. And I'm very impressed that you can meditate for five minutes a day with a toddler. So that's great that you've been able to stick to that.
- [38:18]
A
It has been a lesson in time management and taking advantage of naps.
- [38:24]
B
Yes, for sure. Oh, my goodness. Well, Andrea, this was such a great conversation. Thank you so much for being here. If our listeners are interested in connecting with you, where do you hang out online? Where can they find you and learn more?
- [38:33]
A
Yes. I'm Nline Drea. Everywhere online. Drea Insta is my favorite hang place right now. And then if you like podcasts, check out the Savvy Social podcast. We actually just won an award. It's the best Best in Canada business show. Oh, my gosh.
- [38:49]
B
Congratulations.
- [38:49]
A
That's awesome. Wild. So check out Savvy Social podcast.
- [38:53]
B
Fine. Well, we'll link everything in the show notes. And again, thank you so much for being here.
- [38:57]
A
Thank you for having me.