← The Mindful Marketing Podcast (Formerly Known As The Savvy Social Podcast)
The Mindful Marketing Podcast (Formerly Known As The Savvy Social Podcast)
Grow Your Email List with Free and Paid Bundles with Kate Doster
00:44:36
Ever thought about creating a bundle but felt overwhelmed by all the moving parts? Or maybe you’re just wondering if it’s even worth the effort? You’re definitely not alone. In this episode, I sit down with the ever-fabulous Kate Doster, who’s...
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- [00:01]
A
Ever wonder how some businesses just seem to grow their email lists seemingly overnight? Well, today we're diving into one of the best kept secrets of email list bundles. We're going to talk about why offering value pack bundles isn't just for funsies and for freebies, but it's actually a really strategic move to building your list and finding new people, making deeper connections with your people. So we're going to get into this episode of the Mindful Marketing Podcast, but first I have to give a shout out to our sponsor today. Riverside. Riverside is the virtual recording studio we use to record this very here podcast. Especially if you're watching on YouTube. What I love about Riverside is that we have not only the audio version, but the video version of the podcast. Their magic editing makes editing like Chef's Kiss super easy and amazing. Plus, we like their magic clips feature. Those little clips you see me post on social media. That's all done through the power of Riverside's edit AI. So I'm not actually selecting the clips. The AI is doing it for me and it's doing a pretty good job if I can say so myself. So chat. Try Riverside today for yourself. I've got a link in the show notes online Dre.com329 make sure you use the code DREA when you check out and you'll get 15% off. All right, with that. Welcome to episode 329 of the mindful Marketing Podcast. Kate, welcome to the show.
- [01:25]
B
I'm so excited to be here. And yeah, reverse, that is great.
- [01:28]
A
I have to say, yes, I am loving it. It's making my job a whole lot easier. And I'm excited for this conversation because we were talking before this, how we have been in the same circles. We have similar, like friends overlapping and this is like our first time really like hanging out. So I'm excited to just get to know you a little bit better and pick your brain all about bundles. But before we dive into bundles, you weren't always a bundles person. Give us the background, the Kate Duster background. Where did you start your business and how do you get to today? Sure.
- [02:00]
B
So I'll, I'll try to keep it short, but I feel like everyone that's been on the Internet for a million years, their story is also a million years. So I originally started my business way, way back and I think it was like 2015. I got fired from my banking job in 2012 for giving birth. Because you're in the United States. They don't like to protect pregnant women so much, especially not in 2012, I had been at my job at the bank for 11 months, and you have to be someplace a year in order to have job protection. So I didn't. And they're like, yeah, you have to come back in three days or you're fired. And not like laid off, like straight up terminated. And I had an emergency C section. I almost died on the table. Like, I couldn't even walk by myself on day three. So that wasn't going to happen. And unfortunately, when we sat down and did the math, because my husband was in human services, we would actually be losing so much more money if I went out and got a job rather than relying on the social services that we have here on the state. So, like, I was on wic, I was on food stamps, we had the health insurance through the state. Like, I must say, like, I signed up for everything that we possibly could because again, he was in social services, so he wasn't making that much money to be able to spend support us. He tried his hardest, though. And so like a lot of moms, when you end up staying at home, especially when you've always been kind of a go getter, your brain melts a lot. And so I'm like, I've got to do something. So I started out, like 98% of us with a blog. And then just through Facebook, groups were huge at the time. And through there I found out that I was actually really good at this thing called copywriting, which I didn't even know is a thing. It was just like, people would be posting like their landing pages or their sales pages and they'd be like, oh, can like, someone tell me, like, what you think of this? Like, I would just rip people's stuff apart because it was awful. It was a thing. I actually got under another copywriter and I did that for a while. And then I went out on my own because again, I, you know, I took some great courses. I love copy hackers still. One of the best investments I've ever made. But I also made sure to find a mentor to work under them to be able to provide a good service and not just be like, oh, I happen to be good at this one audience. And then like a lot of service providers, I'm like, I want to do one too many. So that's how I switched to courses. And what was happening is that, I mean, everyone tells you this, but when you switch to courses, you need a much broader audience than you do for services. So I had extremely high conversion rates, but I had the issue of Getting into the new people, the actually like growing the email list because my emails converted, my sales converted, my launches converted, but it was still just launching to a tiny audience constantly. And that's when I stumbled upon the concept of running bundles. Back then, it was the first one that I had ever seen. It was actually called the Coaches Toolkit Giveaway. And I am from New England, I was living in Rhode island at the time. And it turns out the lady that was running it lived 10 minutes away from me. And like there are no online business owners I've ever heard of. So her being 10 minutes away, like I saw her address at the bottom, I'm like, holy crap. So I messaged her and we actually became really great friends. And we still chat now. And so I was like after, like I was again like a participant, like someone who registered. It was like, this is just brilliant. I was like, can I run my own? Like, do you mind? And she's like, no, absolutely not. She's like, let me throw in something too. And so that's how it got started. The very first one we run was the Back to Business bundle giveaway. We since took out the word giveaway because people confused it with a sweepstakes. So just free bundles where it was at. And that was back in 2019. So we've been running them for like five years, five or six years at this point. And they just work like gangbusters and they work really well for your contributors. And I think that people, they'll see like those like mega super bundles with like over a hundred some odd people. And you're like, oh my goodness, like I could never do that. I'm like, I've done that. And I wouldn't suggest that you do do that unless you have a team behind you because. And one of the things that I'm sure we'll talk about, you can have amazing results when you just even have like a couple of your friends getting together and doing this. Because instead of just like you by yourself, promoting yourself to no one, because again, algorithms don't like you when you're new. SEO doesn't like you when you're new. And I know with Google AI SEO people are like, ah, losing their minds because of all the auto answers going on. But with a spundle, it's like for a limited time, for like a week, everyone is just pointing people towards you. And you also get to introduce your audience to great people. And it's just such a win win scenario, whether you're doing a free one or a paid one. Like I said, I'm a really big fan of free ones, especially for early on in your journey. But I'm sure you have a lot of Bundly questions.
- [06:38]
A
I do.
- [06:39]
B
I could talk about them forever.
- [06:40]
A
Yes, I do. First of all, I want to acknowledge, like, how shitty it is to literally just give birth and that not be like, not have the support. And it's, it's so. It's so wild that there's still challenges with that today in 2024. So anyways, sorry that you had that happen to you. And also it opened up the business. So there you go. There's a silver lining. But one of the things that. One of the places I want to start with this conversation is just defining what a bundle is. Because if someone's listening and they're like, okay, cool, but like, what are we even talking about? Can you explain what a bundle is and how it actually helps with the list growth piece?
- [07:18]
B
Sure. So you're going to get together with anywhere. I've had some students run bundles with. It was just four other people. It was just like I said, four other friends or up to, again, a hundred. I always say, like, shoot for that sweet spot, like around 15 for your first one, if you can. Some people drop off. But basically what happens is for a limited time, I always suggest just like a week, the bundle is open. And essentially what's going to happen is everyone is going to push their audiences towards the registration page or the checkout page. And we'll talk about the difference between free and paid in a minute. And once people go ahead and sign up, we're just going to say, this is a free bundle. Then those people are going to be brought to what we call like a bundle claim area. And everyone is going to be able to claim items that either people are selling as like tripwires, or I always call it tripwire, or better things, completely for free. If it's a free bundle, if it's a paid bundle, usually you can get people to put in more premium products that they sell for a much higher price point. But the whole point and running this bundle is basically you are going to help everyone grow your email list. One of the requirements that we have, and then we teach our students and I see a lot out there because students now running bundles is like, it just, it's. If it's going to be a free bundle, it can't be an item that people can get for free on your website. Like, so say that you've got like a normal webinar that you do or Like I have a 2 years worth of email ideas PDF. Like you can't submit that to a bundle because it's not special. You want to be able to, with your full chest and integrity, say you're going to be able to sign up for these 5, 10, 20 items completely for free. And you can't get all 20 of these for free anywhere else on the Internet. And that's why people get so excited. And that's why as a host, you're going to get a whole bunch of new email subscribers. Because usually your item is first on the page and you can highlight yourself. And your contributors are going to be able to get all of these eyeballs on them because everyone's collectively promoting it to their list and they can grow it. So it's like you as a host are making great connections. You as a contributor are getting to grow your email list really big, which is nice. You can get anywhere from a couple hundred to over a thousand. Again, it depends on the size of the bundle of the audiences that people are bringing, but usually you can bet on at least a couple of hundred and the audience wins because they're getting exposure to all of these new amazing things that they probably wouldn't have found on their own or if it's a free bundle, they wouldn't have necessarily been able to afford on their own. And same thing even with paid bundles as well. So that's kind of the whole premise is basically you're finally have somebody on your side pulling that tug of war for attention of like actually pointing people to you. You don't have to rely, like I said, on an algorithm or on giving money to Zucks and being like, maybe my ads will work, maybe not, right? Like, and there's nothing wrong with ads, but it's just another way to get a huge influx of people and attention.
- [09:58]
A
Yeah, I agree. And one of the, this one of the main ways I've grown my list as well outside of ads and social and all of that over basically since the pandemic is when I started participating in bundles and things. And I've gotten a lot like that's where a lot of my email list growth has from, is from these bundles. Because people sign up for the bundle and then they sign up for whatever my free thing is. Like I have a few like $9 to $17, like little products that I'll put in bundles, people will sign up for it for free. And then now they're on my email list. They're my world. And the thing that I love about this too is they also get to experience what a paid product is like from me. So I did one last year where I contributed an offer that I had just. And for the first time I put like a testimonial thing at the end and I got so much good feedback. I was like, just from like the testimonials alone, I would definitely do this again because I was like, it just felt good for people to like go through my stuff and be like, this was awesome. And I'm like, it is awesome, right?
- [11:03]
B
And you can cross promote other things. And I always say, and this is again coming from somebody that was on welfare and all of the things, I really do feel like bundles can change people's stars. Yes, I'm stealing that line from A Knight's Tale everyone, but it really can because it can change you as a host. If you're not actually gaining traction, it can change you as a contributor. Because now, like you said, you actually now have all the social proof that you're going to need for your brand new product. So when you go to launch it or to put ads behind it and update the sales page, you've got all this legit testimonial, how great it is. You can screenshot it and put it on there, not just type in the words. So now it's going to help with that product and it's going to get you more customers. And like I said, all those people that either got it for free or at a discount because you're in a paid bundle now, they have an opportunity to succeed where they might not have been able to. And I'm like, this is like just the ultimate win, win, win, win strategy. I'm like, there are very few downsides when it comes to hosting a bundle or being in a bundle.
- [12:02]
A
Yeah. Okay. I have some very specific follow up questions that may or may not be for me specifically, but I feel like the listeners are going to get a lot from this. So one of the challenges I found with bundles is that the people who are signing up are getting so much free stuff that sometimes I feel like my stuff could get lost in the mix. So when we're thinking about participating in bundles, how do we choose a product of ours that kind of stands out against what everyone else is contributing to the bundle?
- [12:34]
B
I love this question. So when it comes to you choosing a gift, whether you're participating or you're the host, because you still need to put something into a bundle, if you're the host too, like you still need that product, I think that it is Always important. And I know it's going to sound so silly, but make sure on your end, the product that you're picking is a really good representation of the bigger products that you have. So, for example, I have like one product on productivity. It's called like Trello Magic because your girl's got adhd. And that's the only thing that I found that can wrangle my brain. And I have tried them all right, But I don't have any other things related to like, ADHD or productivity. And so people can like my style and they can like Trello, but it's kind of a big leap to go from, oh, I learned how to organize my business from this person to I want to learn how to host bundles from this person, or I want to learn how to sell to my email list from this person. So you have to be strategic in making sure that you're not just like throwing in like some random paid workshop that you did once that has nothing to do with your bigger ecosystem or like you had done, which was really smart. You knew you wanted this new product, you knew you wanted to be known for it, and you knew you needed testimonials. You're like, I'm going to put this in there so that way I can get people to be able to go through it. So when you're picking something for yourself, you want to be really strategic in a lot of where are they going to go afterwards? And I call this the bundle on ramp system. So that's really important. The second thing is you want to make sure that you are picking a product, even if, again, it's a smaller product. Doesn't have to be like your $2,000 course that you're putting in a bundle, free or paid. You want to make sure that it's solving a really sexy problem. You just don't want it to be something that's sort of generic sounding. You want it to be like whether or not the bundle host makes it. So items are searchable, which we can talk about what tool I use for that after, if you'd like to. Or not. You want to make sure that when people are scrolling through, looking at all this stuff, they see yours and instantly they're like, yes, 100%. So that comes down to the title, which we've had actual contributors like tweak their titles of their courses from it. And this is another one to be able to really stand out and not get lost in the shuffle. You might not think about make sure the mockup for your product looks great. I'm talking about it looks professional. The branding is great. It's not just like you threw up like some at Canva, where it's like, I don't know, make me a logo. And it's like this square image or like this awful coloring because people really do still buy with their eyes first. So take the time to take the screenshots to make sure your branding looks really nice. I mean, your example of ours, it really stands out in our free bundle as well. So it's like, make sure that mock up looks really great. Make sure that the title looks good and actually spend some time on the description as well. So that way it sounds punchy and catchy because, again, because bundles are more prominent. You're welcome, everyone. You need to make sure that your item is always going to stand out. Now, not all hosts like myself, we try to do, especially for a free bundle, we try to do one expert per topic. So that way, like, you're not competing with any other person. Some bundle hosts, it's just like the more the merrier. So you're not going to have that aspect. So that's why you need to think to yourself, okay, I don't know if I'm going to be going against, you know, eight other people that talk about Facebook ads. So what really juicy hook or subtitle can I add to this? Or how can I make my mock up a little bit better? How can I make the, you know, the landing page or the sales page where these people are going to land look a little bit more posh, look a little bit cooler and you want to go ahead and do that. So again, make it look nice. Really catchy title and sub headline. And like I said, that really nice mock up is going to help and making sure that it's part of a bigger picture and it's not just like a throwaway thing that's going to be so hard to connect people to different offers that you have.
- [16:22]
A
Yeah, okay. I want to talk about the different offers too, because there's a piece to this where, yes, people are signing up for free and you're growing your list.
- [16:29]
B
But.
- [16:29]
A
But you could also, like, very immediately make money from this, right? So.
- [16:33]
B
Oh, 100%.
- [16:33]
A
Yeah. So with my. So the offer I'm talking about is be your own B roll. I often. I created this last year. Okay. And it's one of my most popular products because it's so specific and people are like, oh, yeah, I get it right away. But I've been testing out different order bumps and tripwire so order bump, meaning, you know, someone signs up for the free thing, but if they add something to their order, kind of like grabbing M and Ms. Before you check out at the grocery store, then you obviously I get that. And then when on the thank you page, I'm like, thank you, here's your product. And if you want to go further, here's something else. But is there, is there a strategy to this for like order bumps, trip wires? That can really help, especially again, since there's like a million people signing up for your stuff, is there a strategy for like standing out with the order bumps and upsells and tripwires and all that?
- [17:22]
B
I think that it's just making sure that it makes sense. So I think that everyone, and actually our mutual friend Lady Lamar back, she was in one of our bundles, I think it was in 2020, 2021. Or she had a whole podcast episode and a whole blog post breakdown about the conversion rates that she got from our free bundle versus what they standard got. And like, yes, that's a little bit lower, but it still was above industry average for what she was getting. So you want to think to yourself, you can't be like psyched up like, oh my goodness, like I talk about social media and so many other people in Spuddle also talk about social media. They'll never buy from me. You need to just think about like, okay, if somebody is really excited for B roll content, what do I have or what can I offer that is that next logical step? Again, these are all just sound principles. So it's like, oh, they might have the B roll, but maybe they don't know what the caption is. So if I have some pre made captions, I can put that as the order bump because it makes a lot of sense. Regardless if there happens to be other templates that are in the bundle. Like, you can't necessarily think about that. If there is, there is. I highly doubt you're going to get them to be like, oh, it turns out that Jessica had these for free. Like, I want a rebund. No one's going to say that because they just got one of your great courses for free anyway. So they kind of feel like, I feel like a butt face if they did that. Let's be real. So you're like, okay, so we've got our B O product that we have. We've got our order bumps of say captions because they're going to be like, well, what do I actually write with these things? So then for your actual upsell on Your thank you page, like, wow, they're going to need people to talk to. So maybe that's when you would offer either a discount or full price, however you want to, a course or an offer that you have about actually growing your audience, right? So that way it's like, oh, this logically makes sense. What doesn't make sense? And again, I teach this at all because I teach a lot about email marketing and funnel building, right? It doesn't make sense to be like, okay, I'm going to have a get started with Pinterest course for my people. The order bump is also going to be about, like, maximizing Pinterest. And then my other one, it's just going to have like the same hook because they think, oh, I already solved that problem. So you just want to make sure you're solving the next problem that you're reading, like, their mind. When it comes to any type of bundle, though, for upsells and order bumps, you need to check the rules for the contributors that the bundle host has if they allow those things. So, like, not every bundle host, free or paid, is going to allow you to have order bumps. Now we let our contributors have order bumps because again, I'm all about everybody winning, right? But it can't automatically be checked on. It has to be checked off. Or like, no, we're not going to send people to you, you're just not in it. Same thing for upsells. We have no problem if people are selling on their thank you page. There's a slight issue with ThriveCart where sometimes it doesn't let people get the free thing unless they put in a credit card or PayPal. And so I tell people, I'm like, you can't run it native through ThriveCart. And I know this sounds annoying, but if you just create a standard thank you page someplace else that is selling whatever your typical upsell is, then by all means you can have it. But I cannot ask people to put in their credit card or something for free. Like, we just won't do it. We also don't accept like, free months of memberships. But again, in your welcome series that you have for your item or in your product, there's nothing that says that you can't promote your membership. It's just we don't ever want, like, I would never want anyone coming to you, for example, being like, I signed up for that bundle that you talked about and Amy charged me. And you're like, it's not even my bundle. I don't even really know who Amy is like, I don't want to create more customers, customer support for my contributors. That's my job, to make your life easier. So, again, just, like, think to yourself, okay, pretend nothing else is in this bundle. What is the next logical step for the item that I am putting in? And that's what I would do. And again, the upsell on the next page, on the thank you page, can always be something that's more exposed, more expensive, more pricey. But for that order bump, it's just like you said, the candy, right? It's like, you know, it's like $2, right? Again, you can have something on there that's more than $2, but I wouldn't try to put an order bump that's like a hundred dollars. No, that's never gonna work. Regardless of where the traffic source is from.
- [21:30]
A
Yeah, yeah, A hundred dollars is a big commitment for someone who just met you. So, yeah, I totally relate to that. Again, the M and M's at the end of the aisle when you're at the grocery store. I love this. Okay, so I may or may not be thinking about doing my own bundle next year. So if I were to hypothetically, of course, create my own bundle, what is the first thing I should think about? And I may or may not have already bought the domain name, so, you know, there you go.
- [21:56]
B
Well, the name can help. So. And I always say that if you want to give it a little bit more clout, give it its own domain name. You'll notice that a lot of our stuff does end up being hosted on main pages because I like their servers. I've never had them go down ever. Except for once in February this year, I'm like, really lean pages. Since 2017, your servers have never died. And the week before, when I'm testing everything for my bundles, when you die. So I feel so bad for people that were launching that week or, like, had summits, because I know a lot of people host their Summits. Again, because LeadPages servers are great. I felt so bad for all those people. I'm like, we're just testing when it comes to a bundle, like we had talked about in our bundle on ramping system, the bundle is a thing. Do not get me wrong. It's a thing, but it's not the only thing. You really need to think of it as a part of your business. So the first thing that I always want people to think of is, what else do you have going on? Meaning are you using this bundle? Because you typically launch in March, so you should Have a bundle in February or even January. So that way you have a whole bunch of new people to launch to. And again when it comes like, but Kate, they just got all this stuff for free. Are they going to buy your bigger stuff? Yes, if you wow them, if your product was great, if you make sure your face is everywhere, which I know you do anyway. So like make sure your face is everywhere so they can build that personal connection. Yeah, they're gonna buy from you. And again, it's not like my Pinterest course. That solves my Pinterest course. That solves my Pinterest course. It's a little bits and pieces leading them towards it and they can work really well. So the first thing is like, do I need this for a launch? Or another thing to think about is like, what is just traffic? Dead. Like, just like nothing's going on. So I will always tell my people. Usually you'll see not a lot of summertime ones, but more so now than you used to because a lot of people, their traffic and attention is dead in the summertime. So it's like if you want to be able to say, even you like a summertime promotion where say you're going to do like a flash sale of the day, well post a bundle the month before. Right. So that way you have a whole bunch of more people to talk to. And what's different about a bundle versus a summit and why? And I'm sure our mutual Krista Miller, she may or may not have thoughts on this. I don't necessarily know if I would ever host a summit into the middle of the summer because people have to sit down immediately and watch that. Whereas for the bundle all they have to do is sit down and sign up for stuff. So it's a lot more like out and on people's own times. So it can work. So the very first thing to think about for your bundle is where is this strategically fitting in to other big projects that I have or what am I trying to help it prevent? You know what? No one ever talks to me in the summertime. Let's do it in the summer. You know what? I love launching in April. It's my absolute favorite. Let's end of February, beginning of March, we're going to host this bundle. So that way you know, we can have people come to this and my welcome series and even in like the product. This is why I love things like ThriveCart. You just duplicate stuff all you want. Right. Maybe you can do that in your course platform. It's like where Even in that product. Like, next steps, sign up for our free live challenges that we've got going on. So that's really like. That is sort of step number one is, where do you need it strategic in your business, and what are you looking for? That's probably the other half. If you are sort of just starting out and your list is like 50 people, then go for a free bundle. Because getting, you know, even 500 new subscribers is business changing. Because it's going to give you so much momentum. It's going to finally give you progress. This is why people give up an online business, because they don't see progress. It's just going to flood all the dopamine. You're like, yes, right. Again, even if it ends up being a couple thousand, that's huge for you. If you already have an email list of like 15,000 people, well, it's cool to have an extra thousand that you didn't necessarily pay for. You might be like, you know, I think I'd rather have less people, but kind of make more money. So maybe that's why I'm going to go with paid. But again, it's like, where do you want to see your money? And again, people who buy paid bundles will still buy other products, too. It's not saying that they're not, but it's like, do you need a lot of eyeballs or are you looking for a larger cash injection? Or is it like, I'm going to have a nice cash injection? From doing the monetization strategies that we talked about, we can talk about other ways to monetize a free bundle as well, and then the bigger payday with my launches that I've got going on.
- [26:07]
A
Yeah, okay. This makes a lot of sense. And y'all better watch out, because I may or may not be doing my bundle next year, but I'm probably going to have to, like, buy some stuff from Kate for the. For this to work. So. So we've got our. We've got our bundle dates selected. We've kind of got a theme. How do we pick the right people to be in the bundle? Because, as you mentioned, you could have 15 people, you could have a hundred, which, like, that sounds way too, like, way too many people to me. But how do you recommend choosing the right contributors?
- [26:37]
B
I would say, especially if this is one of your first bundles. And like I said, if you decide to go through the free route, it's up to you if you want to go free or paid. A lot of times I tell people to go with a free Bundle first. I don't want to say because the stakes are lower, but like the stakes are lower, right? Because you're not like, oh my goodness, like my contributors aren't making a whole bunch of sales with a free bundle. You know, your contributors are going to get a bunch of email subscribers. So like, everyone's like, this is amazing. Right. So that way you can take that sort of pressure off yourself. And again, to switch it over from fee to pay later on is not hard at all. So that's kind of just one of those little first tidbits to have in there. But when it comes down to sort of figuring out like the whole, like, what to include and who to pitch, I usually like to start with what items and topics do I want to see in there. So I always like to think about my person. And this is by like consumer bundles, ones that aren't necessarily business to business. So business to business still works, but especially business to consumers works so well. Because it's like, okay, if my ideal person say that I like to help, you know, moms with organization. There are so many other things that moms can help with. Lifestyle wise. Yeah. Even a little business wise. You want to throw it in there that it's just like, oh man, she would really love this. That's how I always like to start stuff. Like, she would love this. Like, she would love organization, she would love something about yoga, she would love kids principles to keep them occupied. I mean, no one wants to think about end of life planning, but like, maybe she needs something about that or dealing with elderly parents. She again, so you just kind of think to yourself, like, what would these people love to learn about that isn't something else that you teach. So like, if you are the bundle host and you want to be known for, and we'll just say like, I know you teach about lots of great social media, so you want to be known. It's just like Instagram. Like that's, that's where it's going to be your stake and your rodent. Right. Don't invite other creators who also talk about Instagram. You're the Instagram person now. You can invite a couple different people that say, talk about email marketing, because that's not the thing that your bread and butter is about. That's not what you want to be known for. So it's fine. But I always again sort of think to myself, what else is this person going to need? So like, it's like, okay, if I help people host bundles or I host people with email marketing, what else is this person going to need? Well, I cannot teach them how to make a pretty sales page. So maybe I want somebody that helps with graphics design. I'm never going to talk about social media because I'm so inconsistent about it. So it's like, okay, so like we can have somebody talk about threads, we can have somebody to talk about ads. We have somebody that talks with this. So I always like to start with the topics first. I will usually just to kind of rip the band aid off. If you're not used to pitching people, you can sort of look at your closer circles first. Or if you've been speaking on summits before, you can always reach out to like, you know, people that are hosting. Like, I'm pretty sure you've also hung out with Eden Fried, right? So it's like, oh, I'm like, let me ask Eden, right? Like she talks about tripwires. People love tripwires. Like, Eden's the coolest, right? So like, let me ask Eden if she wants to be in there. And sometimes it can be just a bit more casual. So I will start with a couple of those. But you do. We have in my course collaboration, cash and we have the pitching pyramid. You do want to, after you sort of just like get your feet wet, you get a couple of yeses, you know, Cause it's your friends, all of that. You do want to expand a little bit outside of your circle or even just ask people. Like, especially again, a lot of our friends host summits. Like Hater, who are some of the best speakers that you had in your summit, right? And I was like, oh yeah, it was this person, this person, that person. And then reach out to them if they don't already have a topic that you need covered. And then you can always again go with intro. Like, hey, so I know that we both participated in these summits before and I know that everyone loves your talk about, you know, Black Friday stuff. Would you be interested in contributing something for Black Friday? I always like to. And this is the longest part of the process because we like to be really hands on with our pitches. I like to look at their website and I like to see what products that they have and also the audience a lot that they are pitching towards. Right. So it's like, and if it happens to be somebody that you've admired and this is what I always tell my students, go pitch the people you admire. You never know. They could say yes. Chances are you probably know like their launch schedule a little bit. So even in the email, it's like, hey, so I know that you launch your super awesome course usually in March and I'm actually running a bundle at the very beginning of February. That can really help it. So that way you can get a lot of people in your launch triggers that you're running any of your launches, all that sort of stuff. So we like to do that. So we would sort of start with topics and that's like, look outward again, who are you following on Instagram? Who have you always wanted to connect with but haven't? Another thing that you can do is look at people that have participated in summits or bundles in your industry and be like, well, it looks like they want to be in like a contributor style sort of things. Like, let me ask them. They're speaking in a summit, chances are they'll be want to be able to speak into a bundle. So you can look at it that way. We have found people on Instagram, I looked at people on Pinterest, we have just googled people. So that's again, always start with a topic. Some people, you know, ask around, then again look at other sort of collaborative events and then just again just do some good old searching if there is a topic that you really want covered.
- [31:49]
A
Yeah, I love the specificity too of like looking at someone's website because they can't tell you how many times I've gotten pitched by something and I'm like, do you even know what I do? Like, like, it's so wild to me. And when I. So I hosted my first summit this year, which is, it's a lot of work. It's. I mean, it's probably just as much work as a bundle. But I think what made it a lot easier is leaning on my network. I could literally just email my friends and be like, hey, I'm doing this thing. And I know this is what you talk about, so you want to like come hang out with me in the summit. And so when you can be that specific, it does. It definitely makes a difference. Which I love that you say that.
- [32:26]
B
Yeah. And if you have a smaller network, but say you're in a group coaching program or you're in a Facebook group that's run by somebody that you bought their courses before. Look to see do they have a day where you can pitch stuff or reach out to their admin, like send them an actual email and be like, hey, I'm running this event. Is it okay if I post about it in your students only community? I want to ask first. That's like the biggest thing you can't just show up to somebody else's party and try to take their guest ask and you can ask them if they want to ruin your bundle too. So we also, the last round that we have is applications, which can make it really easy to fill in the gap because technically it's people coming to you wanting your stuff, right? So even if you are very teeny tiny, I always say take the time, it doesn't take that long to create a little application. You're just going to duplicate your, you know, information page or what's going on, but instead of like let us know, it's fill out this form and you can fill it in that way as well.
- [33:21]
A
Yeah, that's so smart. That's so smart. Okay, last question is about optimizing everything after the bundle. So whether you're a contributor or whether you're a host, you mentioned kind of scheduling it in so that you have like a plan afterwards. What are some of the things we can do to maximize conversions from bundle to like paying customer in other ways?
- [33:40]
B
I love that. Well, first of all, if you are a host, make sure when all of your timers run out, so when the registration is over, when the claim period is over, because usually we'll give people some extra days. Make sure that you've got something on the you missed it page rather than just being, oh, you're out of luck, right? So that is where unlike in a free or in a paid bundle, you would put something high quality. That's where you can put don't leave here empty handed, watch this webinar. Right? Grab my normal freebies. So that way they're in your funnel. So that's sort of like the first thing of like optimizing it, right? If you are a contributor, most of the time you're just giving people a link to a typical sales page with coupon code attached. So that might not be as easy to have like, oh, sorry, the coupon code expire. But here's this other thing. Technically if you want to get fancy schmancy, you could do that. But for most of us are not necessarily going to do that. One of the things that I always tell the contributors because yes, people are going to have a lot of emails. Are you going to see a lot more unsubscribe than you typically would? Yes, but chances are you're going to see a lot more new subscribers than you typically would in a week. So it's going to even out in the wash, everyone.
- [34:45]
A
Right?
- [34:45]
B
Like it's one of those things, but one of the ways that you can really sort of stand out and optimize, and we had already hinted at earlier, is show your face a lot. You want to be able to build that personal connection with the people. There's first and foremost. And again, if you're going to be doing bundles a lot, and I know I would never tell you, like for every bundle, create like a brand new welcome series just for that. But even if you just have a general like buyer series for people that come through, through the bundle, say they get tagged with a coupon code, make sure that like you're in there and you're truly getting people to consume what you've made. I think that's the other part that people sort of forget. So it's like you can still have that follow up. Maybe I wouldn't send a follow up email every single day. So maybe you're going to space this welcome series out a little bit more. And I always just like to say, I know we met in the bundle, so like I can put that welcome series for any bundle that that product is in. It's not like the alters, no tricks bundle, right? It's like, oh, I know that we bundle right again, showing your faces in the email and making sure that the next step just makes sense. Again, like you talked about, you've got that testimonial spot. It's like, oh, if you want to learn how now that we've got threads down and you want to be able to leverage this in Instagram, like watch this video that we have about this, right, which can be pitching another product. Again, I don't think that people think that like, oh, I can use my products to pitch other products. Yes, 100%, you can. Just make sure that you have an after plan for them. Make sure that you show up. Just don't necessarily put them in your normal newsletter, like let them run that sort of buyer series, welcome series just like you would anybody else and then put them in your newsletter so that way they can hear about you and it can be one of those things like if say you put in, say you do have a membership and you just pulled out a lesson from the membership because a lot of people like will accept that. So they'll do that. Make sure your branding everywhere is talking about that membership so that way they know you actually have it paid and just show up, Just keep on showing up.
- [36:44]
A
Yes. I love this advice. I mean it's just solid like marketing business advice. Anyways, when we think about our clients and customers, it's like the the conversion doesn't happen after they give you money the first time. It's like, in fact, most people feel like when you, when they give you money and they have a really good like time. Well, that's how that. Wow, my brain went to a totally naughty place. I'm sorry, y'all. When people give you money for the thing and then they enjoy the thing, like they're more likely to keep giving you money for the thing. And that's just like human nature. Like some of my favorite people in the online space, I will continue to give them money for things because I'm like, I like the things you create. Like what's, what else you got, right? And so I think that that's just really great. Okay, you mentioned the bundle that you are hosting that I am participating in. Tell us all about All Treats, no tricks the bundle. Sure.
- [37:31]
B
So we are running the All Treats, no Tricks bundle. It going on the week of Halloween. Hint the name. Yes, everyone, there are Halloween puns on that registration page. Do not worry. I do say spooktacular and fantastic more than once on those pages. So. And you don't even have to wear a costume. So from October 28th through the 1st of November, you're going to be able to sign up for complete free registration for it. We have 39, probably 40, because I'm turning 40 on the 4th of November, so the Monday right after. So I'm really leaning into that. So I am. It's part of my birthday bachelor running. It's the first week of the two week birthday Bachelor running for me turning 40 on the fourth. So in that bundle we cover a whole bunch of topics. We have welcome series, we've got newsletters, we've got threads, we have Pinterest, we have quizzes, which is really exciting. We have people that are tackling Instagram. We have like creating your first digital product. And what I made sure to do with this one is that nobody was talking about the same topic. So like we do have someone that talks about like just general social media, but we have somebody specifically that's talking about like Instagram Automations and like selling in your DMs. Right? So I want to make sure that nobody's toes was getting stepped on and that everything was a really high quality because I have been running bundles for 80 million years. We also have a bonus course that you're going to get in there that is called All Tricks no Treats roadmap where it's a very short like 12 minute video that's going to walk you through how to get the most out of the bundle. Because again, I will be the first one to tell you. They can be very overwhelming when you're signing up for them and you are picking things. So I'm making sure that you're picking the products that are actually going to work for your business in the next couple of months. So you're not just saving things just in case. Right. And that you actually take the time to implement it. Because again, my biggest thing as a host, I want you to get the most out of it and I want my contributors to get the most out of it. Again, I can give you like a hundred thousand million subscribers. Not really, but, like, if no one actually goes through your Threads course, it's not going to matter. I want to be able to help you get the best testimonials for this course possible that you can. So I'm going to teach people how to actually go through this, how to be able to handle their inbox when they're getting these new emails, why they would want to stick around with certain contributors. Again, like, if you're seeing these things, it's all green flags, guys. You want to stick around with them. So we have that in there as well. So that way you're not overwhelmed. If you happen to be listening to this after the bundle, don't worry. Like we had talked about on it's over page, we do have some gifts from our sponsors and VIPs, which we didn't even get to talk about how you can make money that way as a host. So that's a fun method that we talk about. And we do have a live training that's going to be going on the week after. It's going to be, I believe it's on the 6th, whatever that Wednesday is, that is talking about hosting bundles and it's called the Bundles Blenders Workshop. So that way, if you do decide that you want to host one in 2025, that you can make sure that you are setting yourself up for success. Because one of the things about summits and bundles, although I will say it's a little bit easier for a bundle than a summit because you don't have to do all the transcriptions and the video editing, is that you're going to be putting in a lot of time ahead and not necessarily see those financial rewards immediately. It's like, but hey, I need, I need money now, right? Like J.J. wentworth. Right? You got, you gotta wait a little bit. So I'm gonna make sure that we're setting yourself up so that way you can really have just the best possible experience as a host, as a contributor, and really getting on there. But again, just head over to katejoster.com forward/treats. There are no upsells to this particular bundle itself, so anything that I would have charged for in previous bundles, like, we have an airtable database that you're going to get completely for free. We have a spreadsheet if that's more of your thing, and keep track of stuff. We have a live ask us Anything call with our experts and VIPs that we have coming in. So that way you can really if this year was rough, I really want you to be able to end 2024 and start 2025 with that momentum, with that excitement and the actual tools and resources to help you get to those goals. So.comforward/treats has everything that you're going to need. If you're listening to this before the bundle opens, you can actually sign up for an exclusive waitlist gift that we have which is your best Black Friday yet audio course, which if you like podcasts, you're going to like the audio course there where we're talking about how to set yourself up for the Black Friday. That's just like the best for you and your business right now, especially if you have that smaller audience. Or again, you've heard businesses are hurting a lot this year. We're going to turn it around and I'm not telling everyone, oh, it's almost profitable. You're going to make a million bajillion dollars. I'm talking about that. You are just going to have the best time with Black Friday when you listen to this audio course. You guys can get that for free again. Kate oster.com forward/treats is going to get you everything you need.
- [42:10]
A
Yay. Oh, my gosh. I'm so, like, I'm legit excited about this. This is so fun. So y'all make sure to sign up because I have a little gift in there too for my pet score. So I'm excited about it. I'll put the link in the show notes as well and everything that Kate does in the show notes. Anything else you want to leave us with, Kate, before we in our podcast?
- [42:28]
B
I know that everyone says this and I want you guys just to keep going and that you are allowed to be a human with human emotions and experiences. So whether this year was your best year ever, whether it was the worst, and you were thinking to yourself, oh my goodness, like, I just want to give up and throw in the towel like yeah, you might need to add that other source of income being a 9 to 5, but it does not mean anything about you. I think that a lot of people put so much pressure on their launches, on their products, on their bundles, on their summits to reflect their own self worth. And you need to remember that you are two separate things and that it is okay to feel your feelings but you still need to be able to take actions afterwards and be like, all right, this thing was, was rough but what can I learn from it? What can I do moving forward? I'm not a failure. It was not a failure. Did it go the way I had planned? Maybe not. It happens. But we're going to be able to move on.
- [43:25]
A
Yes. 100% CO signing this. Thank you so much Kate. This was absolutely fantastic. I'm glad we got to chat on the show.
- [43:32]
B
Thank you for having me. Oh and don't forget to leave a review everyone and a YouTube comment if you're watching on YouTube.
- [43:38]
A
Yes, it does keep us in the top 100 marketing podcasts by leaving a review on Apple Podcasts and Spotify. And also side note, before you go, if you have not heard yet, I have rebranded the savvy social school to the Mindful Marketing Lab. And if you want get nosy and get all the behind the scenes details, I have five episodes up right now of my launch diaries. But you got to be in the lab to get the access to the apps. And let's be frank, downs of rebranding all of the things that is inside the shiny new Michael Marketing Lab. Join me there next week. I am talking to Peg Fitzpatrick like an OG social media strategist. We're talking all about giving ourselves CPR when it comes to social media. Stay tuned for that next week. I'll see you then. Bye for now.