← The Mindful Marketing Podcast (Formerly Known As The Savvy Social Podcast)
The Mindful Marketing Podcast (Formerly Known As The Savvy Social Podcast)
Growing a Newsletter Without Social Media: Building Sustainable Success with Jessica Lackey
00:40:53
Ready to build your email list without becoming glued to Instagram? (Yes, it’s possible!) In this episode, I chat with business strategist and systems guru Jessica Lackey about how she grew her newsletter without the social media hustle. Yep, you...
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- [00:01]
A
If you're curious about growing your newsletter without using social media, then this episode of the podcast is for you. I'm excited to have the amazing Jessica Lackey on the show to talk all about how she has built her newsletter without social, which I know is a dream for a lot of us. Before we get into the episode though, quick shout out to our sponsor, Riverside. We record and edit all of our podcasts inside of Riverside. It has really made things way more streamlined to have recording, editing, publishing, and even their super duper magical clips functionality all within the same tool. Their little AI robot finds the best clips from the show, so I can really easily repurpose it over to social media. Try Riverside today by clicking the link in the show notes. Now let's get into this episode with Jessica Lackey. Jessica, welcome to the show.
- [00:54]
B
Thank you. Super happy to be here.
- [00:56]
A
I'm excited to talk with you mostly because we met through the power of the Internet. First of all, like, our relationship I feel like is birthed from like the very things that I talk about on this podcast episode. So it feels serendipitous to also have you on the show and I'm excited to just pick your brain. But before we get into my questions for today, I want to give our listeners a little bit of background about you because you are what I would consider a business consultant, but you have a very, a very particular set of skills. So tell us a little bit about what you do.
- [01:33]
B
So I'm a business strategist and consultant who helps expert business owners design, build and run sustainable businesses. I really approach business buildings from a systems philosophy, not like a tech and tools perspective, but how do we operate businesses based on how we're designing them and then how does that structure what tools and tech we need, but also the processes and things we do in our business on a day to day basis. So that's where I spend my time and energy.
- [02:02]
A
Yes. And what I love about what you do is the sustainability part because I feel like there's so much we could do as business owners. Like we could do, you know, a podcast or we could do YouTube or we could do, we could be on, you know, Asana, or we could be in ClickUp. Right. Like there's so many different ways that we can run our business. And what I love about the work that you do is you really, like, get to the heart of the matter and help business owners build something that they can actually use again and again over time. How did you get into this work?
- [02:37]
B
So my background is in business consulting. I ran a team, a large team doing supply and demand management at Nike. So I was running, planning for women's training shoes and things like that. And I actually decided after a toxic corporate experience, I wanted to be a life coach. And when I was trying to build my business, I'm like, I don't think I'm doing it right. And so the more I learned about how to build my life coaching business, the more I realized how they've kind of abandoned the principles. I learned about business building from corporate and in my engineering background. And we're missing some of this, like, philosophy around how do we think about businesses beyond the online business ecosystem? And I was like, I don't see this being taught in the market. I don't see us blending these skill sets. I need this. So how can I bring this to my clients?
- [03:30]
A
Yes, yes. And I love that corporate background as well, because I do find that in a lot of our online spaces, we tend to be. We tend to reject corporate philosophies so much that sometimes we miss the one, the parts of it that are good.
- [03:48]
B
Right.
- [03:49]
A
And so I love that you're blending like the structure and the lessons you've learned from corporate and what you've learned from being life coaching into this new model in this new way of running business, which I love. Okay, let's dive into the newsletter, though. So let's start at the beginning with the newsletter. When did you start the newsletter and what inspired you to start?
- [04:10]
B
So I actually, this is my third run at a newsletter, so I started a newsletter to be a holistic nutritionist. That was before life coaching. And then I became a life coach and started a newsletter there because that's what the thing was. It was back when mailchimp was popular. I mean, it makes still be popular. I don't know. But that was the thing. It was like, you start a list. That was what all. That's what all the cool kids were doing when I started in 2018 with life coaching, but really 2021, it was like, you gotta have a list. That's when I went full time. And so I was on mailchimp for a year. And I'm like, everyone says you gotta write a newsletter every week. So I wrote a newsletter every week and it's been going strong for three years now.
- [04:52]
A
Yes, I love it. Okay, so talk to me about how the newsletter plays with the rest of your marketing and with your business. Like, what role does it serve for you?
- [05:02]
B
So the role has changed over time. It used to be, I thought it was kind of sales material like email marketing for sales. And it turns out I'm really bad at writing those. And then at some point in time, I think this was right about when I went full time, people started. I started seeing sub stacks and I'm like, oh, this is a product in and of itself. And I crafted. I changed the positioning of the newsletter to be a specific product. Like you could come in and learn what I'm teaching for free. Because I was really also tired of gatekeeping a lot of knowledge at that point. Like you can, like you can get what you need from my newsletter. This is not a sales tool. This is a educational tool. And it's a way for me to think more deeply about the topics I want to talk about. So it shifted from a sales tool. I'm not good at that to more of a exploration of the topics that I want to explore and share with people. Because I also didn't want to have cool thoughts and not share them. And so that's what my newsletter is.
- [06:06]
A
Yeah. So how do you see actually making sales from the newsletter since it's not a sales tool? How do you make money from it? I should say at the bottom of.
- [06:16]
B
My emails, I do have a P.S. would like to work with me. So I have those. I have the super signature at the bottom. But it's really the. I really use this as an educational tool to get people hearing about what I do and get people hearing how I think. And over time, I show up 10am Eastern time every single Sunday. And so people are like, oh, you're saying interesting things. And I like how you think. That's just the beginning of the process for me. From my newsletter, I offer a monthly free call and I've started adding some lower options in there. And so I do. When I launch a program twice a year, I launch things, but that's almost separate from the newsletter. The newsletter is really like, here's how I think and if you like this, work with me. And if you don't like this, then unsubscribe. But it's really been a way to build real relationships with people over the years.
- [07:08]
A
And see, this is why I like email marketing and newsletters because there's an intimacy in it that is a little bit different from social media. And this is coming from someone who's a social media professional. Right. Like, I love social media for what it is and anyone can see it at any time. And sometimes your posts hit the algorithm weird and you're suddenly like people who shouldn't be in your world are there and they're saying mean things. Whereas with something as intimate as a newsletter, people have to kind of opt in to get that information. And so it does breed intimacy in that process. Do you have any like highlight moments or wins from some of that intimacy with your audience and with your community?
- [07:52]
B
So I was in Miami with some other online business collaborator folks and I got a submission form to work with me. And it was someone had been passed my newsletter and they'd read a couple of the issues on my blog because I post things in my newsletter on my blog and they came in saying, I read your piece on business models and I need to talk to you. And these were long form, 1500 word, 2000 word pieces that someone, someone thought it was interesting enough to forward to a friend and they thought it was interesting enough to go online and learn more things and subscribed and filled out a form to work together. And I didn't have to do anything. That piece has gone many, it's been shared a bunch. But I didn't have to keep creating things. It was someone knew my philosophies before I had a chance to talk with them. I'm like, well, that's the easiest sale I'll ever make.
- [08:49]
A
Yeah, it's the best feeling in the world when someone starts quoting back your work to you and you're like, oh, you've been paying attention.
- [08:57]
B
Yes. There are people who. I'm in the middle of a program launch right now. So I do. My launches are like, I write an additional email every week to that launch. I'm like, I'm a terrible launcher, but people are like, I've been reading your newsletters for years and I've been waiting for the next time this enrolls. And they know how I think and they get on the call and they're like, I want to improve my systems and structures. And I'm like, yay. Awesome. My newsletter, it doesn't. Yes, it's for them, but it's for me to think more deeply about what I'm teaching and connect the dots. For me, it's like writing is thinking to be a better writer, to be a better teacher, to be a better coach and consultant. Like this is an avenue for me to explore putting things and frameworks together and having forcing mechanism. And then other people get to read it and other people then quote it back to me and know about my life and know about what's going on with things I do. Share about me a little bit in the newsletter and people are like, I like this I like you and I feel like I don't. I don't have to do a lot. It's like, yes, publishing it is hard, but I don't feel like I have to impress anybody.
- [10:07]
A
Yeah, yeah, yeah. And I feel like the fact that you're writing it for yourself as well is like, you're already getting, you're already getting that like, serotonin boost from like, oh, I did the thing before you even send it. Because. And I'm saying this is someone who I feel the same way about. My newsletter is like, if there's a sense of satisfaction when you produce this work and you do think of it as a product. So I do have a big question for you, though. It's a little bit of like the elephant in the room to me because people have to sign up for the newsletter. My biggest question is, well, then how do you grow it? How do you make people aware of it? So what are some of the strategies you're doing to bring in new subscribers if you're not using social media?
- [10:52]
B
Yeah, so the first stage in my marketing is always connection with new people. The good news is I like my. I think my newsletter is actually good enough that people share it with their friends. So people, People forward it, people share it. So that's one. Like, I get a lot of people who just subscribe to the newsletter from it being shared. Another avenue is podcasts like this. So I. That's one of my primary awareness strategies is guesting on podcast and saying, I have a newsletter on my podcast. I'm in a number of communities and again, people, you know, people want to get to know and support each other in communities, which is really helpful. And then I also am part of the ConvertKit Creator Network. And so that I have. If it's people who are recommending me and it's because we have a shared relationship, those usually are high quality subscribers. If it's smart recommendations, I have to usually manually unsubscribe people who. I'm like, you're never opening my stuff. I have an automation that sets it up. And I'm like, I'm like, I don't know where you came from. This is not a good fit. So I'm just, I'm. You're never going to buy and I don't want you to depress my open rates. Too bad.
- [11:57]
A
Yeah. Yeah. Okay. I love this too, because I think sometimes as business owners, as marketers, we feel like we have to be on social media. And I'm always the first one to say, like, it's just one tool in the marketing toolbox. There are other ways to market, and you've. You're a great example of that. Podcast guesting being a great example of getting in front of new audiences and putting your work out there and building your. Your list that way. Yeah, this is great. So have you completely removed yourself from social or what? What's your relationship with social media right now?
- [12:34]
B
So Instagram is. It's a static grid. It's. I log in to check messages, and I, like, log in on my desktop occasionally. But that's not. I don't find it personally enjoyable. It's. I don't. I don't love the platform. As, like, a consumer, I'm on LinkedIn pretty. I'm like, ranked in a couple times regularly. But I like LinkedIn does seem to penalize the links to the newsletter. Like, it, like, diminishes external links. So I'm there to, like, talk with people and make friends. And then they tend to subscribe to the newsletter because we all know we have one. I'm on threads as, like, a lurker. I haven't figured out how to. Yeah, I'm a lurker and I'm a commenter and I'm an engager, but I'm not a poster. And then I'm on Twitter just as a consumer sometimes. And like, I think really what I'm discovering on social media is I like interacting with my friends. Yes, I like interacting with my friends on social media, and my friends tell people about my work. And then a lot of times they say, and she has a great newsletter. Oh, if I have a fangirl moment. So there's Regina by Regina tv. I'm never going to pronounce her last name right. She's amazing. And I have been an avid fan of her work for years. And we were on a networking call, and she's like, oh, I've heard about your newsletters. And I'm like, okay. That's when in my little corner of the world, I know I've made it, which is when someone whose work I deeply admire and cite a lot. And, you know, she's influenced a lot of the way I think about my newsletter and about the assets I'm creating. Someone says, I've heard that you have a weekly newsletter. That's amazing. And I'm like, okay, now I know that, like, this thing is, it's something that is people look forward to. I'm tempted to, like, skip a week when I go to Europe, but then I'm like, no, but, like, that breaks trust and I don't want to do that.
- [14:21]
A
Yeah. Okay. I'm fangirling with you because I love Regina and like, also I like her emails. Literally, I just bookmark them and put them in a folder and I'm like, I need to go back and read this. She did this whole, whole breakdown recently and she did it all inside of like a notion dashboard. And I have that thing bookmarked because I'm like, this is so good. And it. She like over delivers and everything she does. And now that you've said that, I see that you've gotten that inspiration from her because of the way that she does work. And then now she like, recognizes your work as well. I'm like, just like pat on the back, friend. That was really. I love that.
- [14:58]
B
Yeah. And one of the things that I learned is how do we. You know, I'm a big fan of social media as I like reading and I like seeing it. But for me, my newsletter is also not ephemeral. There's the kind of appreciating content. I'm not writing a weekly newsletter that just goes right. That I wrote a. I wrote, I think, eight pieces this summer on building the six business systems. Like, I wrote a philosophy about the systems. I wrote a blog post for each of the six systems that I talk about in building your business. That led into an assessment, that led into a presentation. Each of those systems is linked on my blog post and they're linked in different emails related to. I mean, it all comes together. It just happens to get shipped in a newsletter. But these aren't for me. The newsletter is not content that just is. Goes into an archive and just never gets seen again. Like, it, it's thoughtful. It's like it's frameworks that I'm working on developing it's assets that just happen to get mailed through email.
- [15:56]
A
Yes. Okay. I want to dive deeper into how you create the email itself. Because one of the really common challenges I see when someone comes to me for like, consulting or coaching and marketing is that the actual product itself needs improvement. Because I'll put this in the kindest way possible. If this is you listening, don't judge yourself. Just recognize this may be where you are, but sometimes we try to market our business as better than what it actually is. Okay. So, like, that's why we feel resistant sometimes. That's why it's harder sometimes because we're trying to like paint this picture of this amazing thing and then we get there and it's not quite Matching the picture. I think real estate agents do this really well with like how they describe homes. They're like, it's cozy. And then you go and you're like, this is a closet. And so I feel like that's, that's how sometimes we, we approach our marketing. But what I recognize in your work is that the reason why people forward this and share it is because it's just that good, right? And you can do all the marketing tactics in the world and if the product isn't good, it doesn't matter. And so you're able to actually leverage the deep relationships you have with your community because of the trust that you've built with them. And it's just an admirable thing. So I say all that to say to dive into the actual structure of the newsletter as well, because I think that's a really key piece in the marketing. It's almost like marketing for itself. Okay, so you have the deeper business newsletter, you're sitting down to write it. Where do you start with choosing a topic?
- [17:42]
B
So I now it's taken me a very long time. There's usually either a client question that I've been noodling on or a framework I want to develop that I've been noodling on or a hot take that I want to put out there. But now I've also, after writing this for now 3 years, I have like this kind of design, build, run, deliver, type of framework methodology. And so I'm always compiling a list of topics and if I decide there's enough topics for a series, I like write that down. I'm always generating lists of topics in my Notion database and I'm always again thinking like multipurpose assets. A client asked me this question, how can this become a newsletter? How can that become a template or a tool later down the line? But I have a library of list and a lot of times they start from a thing. I'm like, this is an insight or this is a snippet or a quote or somewhere. So those are just in a big ass database in Notion. And then usually I'm taking notes on that topic for a week or two in advance. So I might have like three to five topics that I'm developing and collecting snippets and insights and ahas. And then on usually Saturdays I sit down and spend two like an hour and a half writing and editing the thing. But I've like, I've got like four to five in process at a given time because I'm, I'm always thinking this is an idea. But, like, this is not fully baked yet. This is an idea. I need to think about it. My newsletter, I wrote this. The newsletter I wrote this week, it's connecting someone else's work about author ecosystems to my philosophies on business design. And I've been talking about this person and their work with my clients for. I'm like, this is the fourth time I mentioned this. I just need to write it down and send it out. And so those are where it comes from. It's all. But I'm like, collecting the ideas in Notion database.
- [19:39]
A
Yeah. Okay. So I think there's a few things I want to highlight in what you just said. The first is that you're constantly listening to your interactions that you're having in your business and having an awareness of, like, reflecting that back in your marketing. And I think that this is a really important lesson, especially for people who are new to marketing in this way, is that if you sit down and you go, I have to write a newsletter today. I don't know if it's just me. Mine goes blank. I'm like, what are words? I don't even know what I'm talking about right now. But if you can, like, somehow bottle up and capture those moments where, you know, you are with your clients and customers. They ask a question, you see yourself repeating the answer. That's content, right? That's content. And so I love that you have captured that and then how far in advance you work as. Well, it's not that you're, you know, sitting on Saturday to write the Sunday one. Every week, you kind of have these ideas and you're thinking about them and they're kind of percolating in the background. So when you go to sit down and write the newsletter, you mentioned that you had, like, these pillars. Are you always trying to connect them back to the pillars to lead people, you know, somewhere else in the funnel? Or, like, what's your thought process around this marketing asset?
- [20:58]
B
Sometimes I connect it to different other pieces I've written, which is really nice. And. But I'm always thinking it usually fits in one of these. It's either in. It fits in some kind of framework I have, which is why I think it's really important to have a framework for, like, what you talk about and, like, how your business works. Is it a processor? Is it like a set of things you talk about, not content pillars, but, like, how you work pillars? Like. Like, they're. One of my. One of my coaches, he's going to always talk about Resonance, overreach, and personal storytelling. And that's not. It's a skill I've developed for him, but it's not one of my core, like, how I work principles. So. And I think another thing that from a content perspective too, is I get. I'm subscribed to a lot of email newsletters, and I'm subscribed to a lot of sales and marketing. And half the newsletters I wrote this summer were like, straight up reaction posts to like, the reason I don't want you to buy this thing is not because this thing is bad. It's because this thing is not designed for you. I want to teach you about that. And I had consume a lot of content, and I'm looking for, like, where do I have a philosophical disagreement with something? And instead of it being like a takedown piece, because that's. Who wants to read a takedown? That's just not. That's not my style. But how am I, like, okay, how does this bolster something that I want to tell my audience and tell my. Tell my people? Like, this is. I clearly had a reaction to this. Why? And I write that down. So I'm consuming so much and then I'm documenting my reactions to it.
- [22:30]
A
Yes. Okay, so there is some consumption to this as well. I'm curious how much time you think you spend on consuming, because right before this, we recorded as well, you were talking about all the podcasts you listen to and all the newsletters you read. Like, do you have an estimate for how much time you spend on that each week?
- [22:48]
B
Podcasts alone, like three hours a day. It's so bad. It's really kind of ridiculous. But, like, I, I listen to podcasts when I'm walking and I listen to podcasts when I'm cooking and things like that. And this is a bit of my hobby, I would say, like, business building is a hobby and it's my business, which is questionable on whether or not that's like, blurring some boundaries for a lot of y'all. But I find it really interesting. I'm like, I've been a student at heart my whole life, but I would say it's really important to listen to your clients, but also just like, keep tabs on what's going on in the marketplace. I don't. And I think that's like. Because I don't see, I'm actually not on social media that much. So all my consumption time is on email and podcasts and books and things like that.
- [23:30]
A
Yeah, I'm the same. I constantly have A podcast going and depending on my mood, it's like a just for fun podcast. Or it could be like a business podcast. But as someone who like I always put turned in my homework. If the teacher said read pages 10 through 20, I read all the pages. Like that's just. And I read and I read ahead. My husband teases me for about this all the time because I'm very much like oh them's the rules. Like we gotta follow the rules and we have to turn our homework. So I definitely relate to that piece of it as well. So I want to go back to something else you mentioned as well. Your PS at the bottom of each newsletter. I've seen this strategy done a lot. It's very common. I want to talk about what you decided to put in your PS and how that is working for you. How do you track success there?
- [24:19]
B
Yeah, I have three offers right now. I have my a new membership which is kind of like a light lift model. I have my Deeper Foundations group program that's a cohort based business building model that opens twice a year. And then I have my one on one work right now. Like the Deeper Foundations. It's. I mean it's like a sign up. It's sign up for the waitlist like 50% or 50 month weeks of the year and then it's like and it's open now for two weeks and one on one. Like I have openings every so often that I currently people just like book like they book a, they fill out an application, they book a call. So it's kind of like the always open. But I haven't really had to like launch something when I'm usually doing like a workshop or something that's like time sensitive, I'm truly launching it. It gets a special segment in my newsletter. These are all kind of like my, my three always on offers and they're just there for anyone who finds them. But I have special call outs for again like workshops and things and when the program is open for enrollment it gets a special spot in my newsletter.
- [25:22]
A
Yeah, okay. I love this. I've been hesitant to implement this strategy just because as a on like the consumer side I tend to skip it. Like personally I almost never read the psychological part of the emails. And also I think as a marketer, same as you, I just read a lot of emails so I just very rarely click those links anyways and I see the value in it especially as people are forwarding your emails. Like if that's a big part of the strategy, that means not only are the people that this was forwarded to, they get the whole email, but then they also get those links and that builds the curiosity, which I love. The other thing you mentioned as well was these free community. Are they workshops? Are they classes? Tell us more about that one.
- [26:08]
B
Yeah, they're classes every. This was born out of originally. This was born out of my. I wanted something that was in between email and working together. There's a lot of bad actors in the online space and a lot of people have gotten burned. And a lot of these master classes that are like 75%, let me tell you about my story. And then 25% sales pitch. And you're like, well, I came to get a thing and I didn't get the thing. And so I wanted a way to meet people. I wanted, you know, I was told someone, someone said do a roundtable. And I'm like, I don't, I don't really know what that means, but like I can teach a class. And so this was almost like the extension of my newsletter. It's like, okay, I'm going to develop some content, but I'm also going to develop an entire training, teaching and business wisdom. Would say charge for that and make it part of your funnel. I'm like, well, I want as many people to come to those as possible and I want them to bring their friends. And so I'm gonna one, not gatekeep the information cause that's really important to my values. But two, I'm gonna teach it and give it away for free. And so I do that once a month. And those are actually a lot of people subscribe my newsletters because someone said, hey, she's doing this free thing. It's actually really valuable and not salesy at all. You should come to this. And it's been a great asset. Again, I develop a teaching for it, which means I have to think deeply about it. And almost everyone that has joined one of my group programs, like 50% of them have come to one of those classes before.
- [27:36]
A
Ah, beautiful. I love it. One of the, I think beautiful things about the online marketing space right now is there is more curiosity around these deeper relationships and there's less of a desire for someone to be, you know, sold to. I distinctly remember early in my business going to a webinar that I thought was live and it had like the comments and everything. And then I joined that program because of that webinar and the first thing they teach is these fake webinars. And I was like, oh, this feels awful. I am never doing this in my business. Right. And so I love that you have, have this resource for people to get a better sense of you, get a better understanding of you and your offer and I think it's a great reflection of just your value system and it makes it easier for someone to say yes to your offer because they get to experience it which is so beautiful.
- [28:39]
B
I also don't market them on social media because I'm really bad at like I should put them on LinkedIn more and I don't and they're people just people bring people and you know it's people sign up for the newsletter again like I should do more and like to really expose awareness of the, of this and yet I still, I think like earlier this year I had 60 people sign up for the free one that's about. It was one of the marketing and sales systems pieces that I talked about and it was wonderful. And you know, I think it's like it's snowballing on its own and I tried to market the thing on social media. I talk, I talk about it sometimes but I just those I have found that for me like the reach is so poor on LinkedIn when you put things like that up that I just, I just don't and they. Most of the enrollments are from my newsletter and it's great.
- [29:33]
A
Yeah. And I will gently with love correct you on the should comment because you don't have to put it on LinkedIn. You could, you could absolutely. But you're. The way that you've shown up for yourself is working and so just keep doing that. I love it. It's beautiful to see. I'm curious though, have you, have you ran into any challenges with this model of marketing like this marketing system that you've built for yourself?
- [30:00]
B
It would not work if I was trying to sell low ticket the speed like I filmed a whole YouTube video on this. If anyone wants to hear about the real transparency about my business numbers. I built my business on high higher end consulting for companies starting out. I've now switched, I no longer do that but I have a couple of clients who I work with five to ten hours a week building through high end. Not high ticket as that concept but truly a high level of support in their business. And so I have a fractional COO client, I have a number of one on one advisory clients and so I don't need a ton of of traffic and volume to make my business model work. I don't. If I were launching, if I had a cohort based program as my signature core offer. I needed to enroll 20 people every quarter in a thing to make it work. My model wouldn't work for that. I'm growing too slim, growing visibility too slowly for that. Like, I think my conversion numbers are amazing and they're just not large enough. I don't have enough. You know, I grew my list, I think from 280 last spring. We're at a thousand now, which is pretty good. And the conversion rate is amazing on the people that are in my world because I've deepened that relationship. But if I had a model that was more short term, if I had a model that required more people opting in for like a David Perel. I don't know if this is relevant for your audience, but David Perel ran Rite of Passage. It was a cohort based course and it was super high end and it was, you know, six week program and then that was it. That was the only. But he shut that down because it's really hard to run. You have to still get lots of followers and lots of new, new eyeballs if you're running kind of what I call a high volume model and I don't have one. So it works for me because I built my business and designed it for longevity and long term and that allows my audience growth to match the style in which I work with my clients.
- [32:03]
A
Yes. Oh gosh. I want to emphasize this so much for everyone listening. I love that you called it a high volume model as well because the level of marketing that's required for some business models doesn't fit with personalities of the business owner. And I think this is also where there's dissonance when someone tries to deploy marketing strategies and they're like, I don't like this. For instance, one of my marketing coaching clients is like, I want to be on TikTok. But the more we get into it, the more I realize she doesn't want to be on TikTok. It's just how she has been sold the bill of goods of like show up on video three to five times a day, create all of these assets and she's like, I'm trying to do all of this stuff and it just drains me, depletes me and it doesn't work for her and it actually just links back to her business model. And so I do think there's a really important lesson here in matching your business model to how you want to work and then also matching your marketing to that business model as well, which you've done so beautifully. Talk to me about some of these Results. You mentioned that you're launching as we record this. What are your goals for a launch and then how do you adjust your marketing for your newsletter throughout the launch period?
- [33:24]
B
Yeah, so my goal for my launch is 15 people, which is not super large, but that's again, how I roll. I'm like, I want intimate, deep relationships, deeply supportive. My newsletter for the maybe month before the launch started was very pre launch heavy content, talking about some philosophies and some beliefs and trying to cross the bridge on some of the what would you need to believe for this to be true type of content. Not explicitly marketing the program, but priming the pump, as it were. And then I keep my newsletter going every week. I actually don't send launch emails to people who have not made it through my welcome sequence yet because if they want to buy from the website, they can. I'm doing a podcast ad with the Amelia's Karubi's off the grid podcast, which people might join this cohort, they might join the next cohort, but it's really. And then my launch emails are more just like programs open. I had like a couple emails go out to the waitlist. I sent personal emails to everyone on my waitlist, including if we've had a conversation before, if they were in a community that I'm a part of, if I know them, if they came to a deeper business dialogue. Like, I know them because it's small. And so I'm like, how's this thing going? How has it been since last time we talked? Like, these are not canned emails, these are personal emails. Thank you for coming to this roundtable. Oh, we haven't had a chance to meet yet. I'd love to learn more about you. So I sent personal emails to everyone on the waitlist. I think I had like 40 people on the waitlist. And then I sent an extra email once a week. That's less. Again, my emails are not meant to. They're not really talking about the program as much as my philosophies around. If it's the right fit for you or when you should be thinking about this. That's kind. And I'm very much like, if people are like, I can't afford it or, you know, I'm like, all right, let's figure it out. And if they're like, I'm not ready for this, I'm like, great, it's going to be here in March. And so it's very, it's a very, like, if this is supportive for you, I want you to be Here. If it's not supportive for you, guess what? You're going to get my newsletter every single week and I'm going to keep showing up in your inbox until, and it may never be the right time for us to work together. You, you may never need to work with me. Yet you're still going to probably read my email and tell a friend.
- [35:43]
A
Yes, yes. That's beautiful. And I love the way that you think about all of this as well. It is very refreshing. I've been reading a lot about like, cozy marketing and cozy business strategies and this aligns with that. It doesn't feel like so much like push as more. Yeah, I'm struggling to put it in words because I'm still like wrapping my brain around this idea. But I get the vibe from you that it's not about like, go, go, go, push, push, push, buy now. Here' flash sale. You know, it's more like, hey, if you're ready, I'm here and if you're not, I'll still be here. You know, and there's something comforting about that. My very last question for you is about balance and burnout. And I think that this is a big question because you have committed to this weekly newsletter. What do you do when you don't feel like writing it or, you know, you're balancing all other aspects of life and business?
- [36:40]
B
Well, part of not being present on social media is because this is my number one thing. I want the newsletter to go out every single week. And so I actually found that I was having a harder time writing the newsletter when I was having to also give some of those concepts to social media. And so for me, it was like I couldn't think of five interesting Instagram posts and a weekly newsletter. So I just kept thinking about my instant, my weekly newsletter. And then snippets make it onto LinkedIn or sometimes threads, but mostly LinkedIn. And so for me, that actually helped with the burnout because I was having a hard time coming up with that many interesting takes for social. And I'm like, I'm going to not do that. I'm going to focus on one take and just like flush it out on my newsletter. And because I'm only doing one a week, this sounds crazy. I'm only doing one a week. But because I'm not doing anything on social, I am also doing a YouTube channel for discovery. That is a asset I am building for. I have like 230 subscribers. We are, we are on a long journey for YouTube. Those are all usually from a Newsletter. They're like refined concepts, but because I'm always thinking about, like, four or five things I want to say, I'm always like, got things. I'm never writing from a blank page. I'm always peppering ideas in when I have them. And I can. I do repurpose some newsletters. I have to reshape them and rewrite them a little bit. But I'm going on vacation, and so I. I'm gonna have one that's kind of like a rehash of something I wrote last year because I've been referencing. And I'm like, oh, I didn't put. I never put it on my blog. So I'm gonna put it on my newsletter and then I'm gonna send it out. But that's how I think about burnout is like, my temperament is consistency and always thinking about three to four things at a time and always wrestling with ideas in my head. And so I couldn't. I wasn't built to be on social media because it was. It's not built for how I like to think. So I just. I just didn't. Which means that I'm actually. Don't burn out on my newsletter now. Sometimes I have to, like, do it on Fridays or I had to schedule. I was out of town with my family and the hotel didn't have wifi, and I'm like, I have to schedule this newsletter. So I went to. I went to a bar and like, used their wifi to schedule the thing.
- [38:57]
A
I love that.
- [38:57]
B
So sometimes I have to, like, manage a schedule. But that's how I stay consistent is because I picked the one activity that I knew I would love to do.
- [39:05]
A
Yeah. I love this so much. Everything you're saying. I'm over here like, yes, yes, yes. And I think our listeners will love it as well. So for those people who are listening and they're like, I need more Jessica in my world, in my life. I know you have this free, radical and rooted business life cycle assessment. Can you tell us all about it?
- [39:25]
B
Yeah. It's a quiz that helps you understand where you are in the lifecycle of business, all the way from a seed to a sprout to a strengthened sapling to a fully mature business. And what to focus on from the perspective of a sustainable business, usually a service provider. If you sign up for the assessment, you also get the newsletter.
- [39:47]
A
Yes, definitely. Y'all go check this out. I'm going to put it in the show. Notes. Onlinedrea.com 326 Jessica, thank you so much for being on the show today. Coming up next, inside the Savvy Social School, we have our brand new session, the Content Collab. If you want to brainstorm with me, co work with our fellow members, come on in and join us. We're doing this creative session together so we can come up with more ideas, flesh out our ideas, bounce our ideas off of each other, and just play and have fun with our marketing together. So join us in the Savvy Social School for that. And then coming up next week, I have Chloe coming on the podcast to talk to us about branding and also marketing to people without saying marginalized communities, because not everyone's marginalized, but there is also diversity. So we're going to get into that hot topic next week. So stay tuned for that. That's all for this episode. I'll see you next time. Bye for now.