← The Mindful Marketing Podcast (Formerly Known As The Savvy Social Podcast)
The Mindful Marketing Podcast (Formerly Known As The Savvy Social Podcast)
How to Simplify Your Content Strategy with Fope Nkwocha
00:30:44
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Transcript27 lines
- [00:00]
Drea
If you're staring at a blank page going, what do I even say do? When it comes to my content marketing, I'm really excited to have Fopsy on the show today because she's going to talk all about this content overwhelm feeling and how to create a really simple system that can move us forward as executives in our business. But before we get to that, a word from our sponsor.
- [00:24]
Riverside is the all in one podcast recording and editing tool that I use for this right here show. I use it to edit not only the audio, video in the video, it is like Chef's Kiss magical, making the entire process so, so easy. Plus, I love their Magic AI clips. Their little AI robot in the background pulls out the most impactful moments of the episodes without me having to comb through into it myself. Resizes them for social media. So those vertical videos you see on TikTok and Reels, those all come from Magic AI inside of Riverside. It's literally one click. It spits out 10 clips. I pick the best one and away I go. Saves me so much time. If you want to get on the Riverside train, check it out today, the links in the show notes and make sure to use my code DREA D R E A at checkout to get 15% off your membership.
- [01:17]
Welcome to the show Fopsy. How are you?
- [01:20]
Fopsy
I am doing wonderful. How are you as well?
- [01:23]
Drea
I'm excited for this conversation because I feel like we're going to agree a lot, but I'm really excited to hear your perspective and your story about all of this. But let's go back to the origin story, the beginning. How did you get started in the coaching space?
- [01:40]
Fopsy
Okay, so my coaching origin story started with a layoff. I got laid off from work. And like, first of all, I thought, okay, maybe this is a sign I should go do my own thing and I should start something of my own. But at the same time, it wasn't like I chose the timing. I didn't. I didn't see it coming. So I wasn't prepared enough to do this thing. So I figured maybe I should at least simultaneously be looking for my next gig so that I could start to build this ramp off but find my next job. But then that job search lasted for a very long time, 18 months. And so it was unexpected and it just felt like it solidified the thought I'd been having that one source of income is too close to none and that it can really be that long. So in the process, well, 18 months is a long time. You have a lot of time to think. So I was thinking about what I had done in my past life. So I had mostly worked in marketing. My last job was in a software company, working as a senior product marketing manager and before then product marketing manager with Google Canada. So I was like, okay, lots of marketing, lots of small business work. Maybe I could be a small business marketing consultant. And so I threw a lot of spaghetti at the wall, just trying to figure out stuff that would work, Creating content of my own to try to attract people. But the thing that finally got the ball rolling was reaching out directly to people that had the audiences that I wanted to reach. So chambers of commerce, people who had groups, I mean, a lot of them ghosted me, but one person replied and then introduced me to the other people that ghosted me. So that was pretty cool. And then from there I started to understand a bit more about what was actually happening with real small businesses. I did a number of workshops, did a number of VIP days. It was still very scattered. Then I was like, okay, actually my husband was like, if you're serious about this coaching thing, maybe go look for people that are doing it and let them help you figure it out. So I then hired a coach of my own and I put some more structure to my offer, created a package, streamlined my who from just small businesses to like service providers with four figure offers. And that made things clearer for me, which I think is quite powerful because I then went on to sign like three clients in a pretty short time at like a new price that had come up with. So I saw the power of coaching myself and I was like, okay, so the core thing I'm doing is helping people to focus on what is making money. So because in the world of doing business, there's so many things you could be doing. Creating systems for people that you don't even have yet in your world, doing branding when you don't have any clients yet. And so I was like, okay, this part, I want to help people avoid all the mistakes I was making with busy work and just focus on meeting more people, making more offers. And that really was the process. And then eventually I got back into a 9 to 5. I now do both. And I was like, okay, this is also nice because I realized that it helps me be in some ways freer with my marketing, more creative with my marketing. I don't have that urge to, to just say yes to anybody or to not have the space to think because I'm like, okay, how am I going to make the bills this month? So like I really have enjoyed the spaciousness that having a job as well as doing this has allowed. I also, I feel like the journey I went on was important to give me, I guess a background story of how I started. I still feel like I'm not all the way at the end of my story with the like revelatory end. But I, that that's a bit of the journey and I find that it's actually quite similar with a few people. I think there are two main things I hear when I talk to people that are starting businesses. It's either becoming a mom or like layoffs or I guess some break even point that gets them into businesses. So I think I'm in good company. That's a bit of my story.
- [05:34]
Drea
Yeah, there's so many people who go through that. You know, for me it was moving to another country and then my business did evolve when I had kids and I feel like those big life changes kind of become the precipice of starting a business. But one of the things that you said that I thought was really interesting was this idea of reaching out to people and getting ghosted. And this happens a lot with business. But I think we take it more personally because it's us versus if we're working for another company, we just naturally don't take it as personally. So there's a bit of like resilience involved, right, with being kind of like the face of your business. How do you help your clients or how do you help yourself when you're thinking about doing things that it's going to amount to quite a bit of rejection before you're successful. How do we navigate that level of resilience?
- [06:27]
Fopsy
Yeah, you're very right that like we take it personally. And I mean there was one time before coaching I did gift boxing and I came across this concept of 100 rejections as in, as a goal to create the goal of getting 100 rejections and then let whatever good thing happens out of that be a surprise. So if you're going for 100 rejections and one person replies on the 15th time, you're like, oh, okay, this is going well. So that helps as well with just setting the expectation for okay, I am going out to reach out to 100 people that have never heard of me. They don't owe me a response. So if I get one response or if someone redirects me to the right person, then that's it to actually think about my story a bit more. The person I reached out to and that replied ended up being like a junior Person who then introduced me to his boss and was like, this is the right person to talk to. And that was the person that introduced everybody beyond that reached out to me a few weeks later to be like, there's a grant coming up. I think you're a fit for it. Apply. I did apply, and I got that grant. So, like, one person opened up all these other doors. So you have to think about, you might not need 10 responses from the hundred you're going for. It might just be one that really gets the ball rolling, or you might. You might be really surprised by the. By the things, the outcomes of it. Maybe it's not, you know, my own story, maybe it's that you find a partner through that process. Maybe it's that you find someone who gives you a speaking opportunity to the room that you're trying to access. So, like, there's so many ways you could go out. But then that's how I think about it. In terms of going after 100 rejections with clients, I think it's helpful that you have someone you're accountable to so that even if you're not, you're not excited about 100 rejections, who is. You're like, okay, I told Fakwe last week that I'm going to reach out to 10 people before our next call. So even if it's to fulfill all righteousness, even, even if it's to just get it done, I'm going to do it because I know I'm going to talk to her next week. And that's what I find. So with people that say they will, you know, reach out to a mentor, people that say they will reach out to X number of podcast hosts, or, like, just people that they're trying to connect with, or they will follow up with who they met in networking calls, just because I asked them at the end of each call, what are you committing to before our next call? And they say that there's a level of, okay, I'm not going to drop the ball on myself and on my coach that allows you to just pursue. So I think accountability helps there, as well as realizing that this is. People are not everybody is just good by default. We get good at all these things by reps, repetition. So maybe in the process of your pitching and reaching out to people, you're not really that good in your first 10 pitches, but by the 10th or by the 11th one, by the 20th one, you realize how to make it better. So you're also beating, you know, the muscle for stronger outreach, for realizing what Makes people respond for realizing how to be a better human when you're messaging people. So, like, just things like that. So, yes, they're subtle, soft lessons, soft skills that are being built in the process. I find those encouraging, and I use that to encourage people I work with as well.
- [09:23]
Drea
Yeah. And I think the beautiful thing about that, too, is this concept of the hundred rejections. It wasn't just the one connection that you made that that was the decision for all of this. It was like that person's network as well. And that's something that I'm constantly talking about, because sometimes we get so enamored by, like, the potential client in front of us that we kind of forget about all the other ways that potential clients can be introduced to us. And I know for me, specifically, like, my favorite clients, they're not on social media. That's why they need me. That's why I think they hired our agency. Like, they're not looking at marketing. They're out, like, living their lives. And So I, like, nine times out of 10, need an introduction to them. Otherwise, they don't know that I'm here. And so I think that that has trained me to be able to look at that in a certain way. And I like how that's in your story as well, is that it's not about just the one connection. It's like that one connection opened up a network of other people, which I think is a beautiful thing.
- [10:25]
Fopsy
And you're. By telling that story, you're kind of also reminding me to follow up, because I now host a monthly networking call that's just a speed networking thing. And I met two people on Monday that I'm supposed to follow up with. I'm like, this would be a good reminder to do that, because I'm thinking now of another event I went to in person, and it didn't feel like I met anyone in particular in the event. And I was just like, okay, I'm glad I came out for a good night. But on my way out at the code check, literally, I just connected with someone. We said, hi, hello. We walk out the door together. She's like, would you like to exchange numbers? We did. And like, a whole year later, she's like, hey, you said you were interested in working with organizations, hiring coaches, Right? Like, a whole year later. And that just came from somebody I met on the way out of an event. So sometimes it's not grand. It's just like you said, the people they know and her keeping me in mind for a whole year. I think is a miracle, honestly.
- [11:13]
Drea
But, yeah, no, you were memorable, and I think that's part of it. Right. So this brings me to my next question, which is about this concept of busy work and the work that actually matters. So you talked about how sometimes business owners, we get stuck on, like, redesigning our logos. We get stuck on all the things that don't actually move our business forward. So when I think about content marketing specifically, how do you kind of show people where to start and where to start in the right way so that it's just not creating more busy work?
- [11:46]
Fopsy
Okay. It's stupid simple for me. So if you have clients, I think it's the simplest. It's documenting what's already happening inside of your client calls. As in, if one person has a problem that they've raised to, you assume that there's probably 20 more people in the world, at least, that have that problem. So if you talk about problems you're already solving, if someone is talking to you about, you know, staring at the blank page, not knowing what to create, there probably are other people that having that problem. If someone is telling you about not knowing how to. I don't know what else people do, maybe. Okay, like, let me think specifically of an example. So I have a client who is a pharmacy mentor. So she helps people to pass a particular licensing examination. And she'd been doing it organically, building a community out of referrals. And she was like, I'm now ready to market to the public, but I don't know what to say. I'm like, so you mean you answer questions every week with this community and you don't really know what to create in your public content? She's like, yes. Okay. So I said, we're going to take one question. Can do it every day? Sure. If not three times a week. And we're going to take one question you're already answering inside of the community and just answer it publicly. So you're showing literally what's happening already inside your community and you're doing it publicly. Hers was on LinkedIn because she had a little bit of a following there. Another person I'm thinking about a career coach who felt like her audience was quite quiet. And we looked at the content she was creating from random things she'd created and compared that with what people were saying on the form you submit before you book a call with someone, the consultation calls. And I'm like, there's like a whole world of difference. So the things people care about that they're telling you they want to hire you for is very different from what you're seeing on your LinkedIn where you want to attract more people. So we simply start with, what are the words people are saying to you already create more content out of this. People are saying they feel lost after sitting in a company for a long time. They want to, like, explore new career opportunities. Talk about that. What process would you walk someone through to do that? She found that a few people were saying they found her on ChatGPT, which is such an interesting thing. We said a cue. What are the things they're looking for? And in your conversations with them, what were they looking for in ChatGPT before you came up? They're like, oh, they talked about layoff and just recently being laid off. So we talked about more of that. And so I think it's less so creating content and more so documenting what's already happening in your world and looking at what people already care about and talking about it more often. And right before this call, I was also thinking about this client. One question I kept asking her was, so when you look at your content as well, think, would somebody want to pay 2,400, which is the cost of a package, to solve this problem you're talking about? So don't just like, pick generic topics, pick topics that they feel painful to continue to have, that they feel excited to solve, and things like that. So those are some simple things that I'm thinking through to make content simpler, to make it feel less like this task. That is such a marketing task. I'm not a marketing person. I just know my area of expertise. You're already solving these problems in private, whether you are a website designer, whether you are a coach, whether you are a consultant, and you're just now taking what you do privately and doing it publicly.
- [14:51]
Drea
So what about those people who they don't have any clients yet. How do they know what their clients are saying?
- [14:59]
Fopsy
Really cool. So I also had that thought at the beginning of my own journey. And one way I made it easier for myself was to go where my people were. So Facebook groups where service providers hung out, people very much shared their questions and concerns there. So I would scout for problems that felt marketing and sales adjacent and take the words I was seeing there and respond to them in the comment. First of all, because those people are looking for a solution to their problem. But I would also extend it and anonymize it without their names and say, this is the question I answered this week. This is the answer I gave. So I would look for questions that I felt like the people I wanted to work with were asking and I would respond to them. I also did free work, so I'm not opposed to doing free work. I put a call out for a handful of people who, who were looking to sign five new clients in 12X and it was free. So free means that the barrier is almost nothing for them to say yes. And it allows you to get to know people's problems intimately, people's desires intimately. It's not all problems, it's also aspirations. It's what they want. And so from there, I started to build my own bank of client quotes, client questions, client what they wanted, so things that they're looking to get. So for example, people saying, my lead pool has dried, I just want more leads. And so that then it gave me the words I was looking for. So I'm not opposed to doing free work. It allows you to build the muscle. Plus, if you don't have clients and you have the time, would you rather just like stare at a blank screen or talk to real people? So I like to put it as meet more people, make more offers. In the beginning, maybe it's just meeting more people, eventually you add more offers. So hopefully that's helpful for people that don't have clients yet.
- [16:37]
Drea
Yeah, 100%. I love this advice so much. The. The Internet has, is a wealth of resources. So use those resources. And that's such a powerful place to start. And we're constantly adding to this. Right. So for those business owners who are, you know, farther in their business journey and they are reflecting these stories in their marketing and in their content, what are some of the other ways that they can kind of simplify this system so that it doesn't feel like they have to create so much content all the time.
- [17:09]
Fopsy
So in January, I did this content workshop for creating pillar pieces of content. And I just like you're saying, not everybody has the time to constantly churn out content, but if you can take some time, maybe, you know, quarterly, maybe twice a year or something, to reflect on the actual clients you've worked with, the main concerns they brought to you, the wins they had, the questions they asked, inside coaching calls, and like, really refresh your bank of what are people saying, that also is helpful because if you've been in business for 10 years, maybe the problems people had 10 years ago is not quite what they have now, or maybe it's still the same, I don't know. But you, you really don't know until out your data. So I had people going through a Process of reviewing. Actually let me pull it up so that I can have it handy and just like. Just like, give it to you. Exactly. Like I said to them, I had. I called it the trust method. And building trust with your audience and making sure that, well, creating content that, yes, it gets clients, but before they hire us for a service, they kind of want to know that they can trust us. So that's what it was. So the first the trust was T is. It's a acronym. Yes. So T stands for track your client language, where to look, look in, like, calls you're having, recordings you've done, notes you've taken, and just like, be tracking it. Because if you don't track it, you're relying on memory, which sometimes it's not exact, or like you assume in broad strokes, essentially actually keep track of it. Then the R is for recognizing pattern. What are some things that are repeating themselves? Maybe across one, two, three clients. Okay, that's a pattern. So maybe pay attention to it. What matters to them? Like, what are the things that they're saying? This is really important. This is what will make me feel like this investment was worth it. Sometimes we have all these onboarding forms and we collect data that we don't ever go back to. So this is the chance to go back to them onboarding, offboarding all those things, you know, key moments after a decision has been made to pay you. They're quite important. Not just the screenshots of wins in the community or whatever, but, like, just the things that people say. This is what I'm expecting out of this container when I work with you. They're important, so really go back to them and allow yourself to do this. If it's once a quarter, once, twice a year, or whatever allows you to form a habit of it, and then you can build content around it. So when you track your client language, which is the T, you recognize patterns, which is the R. The U is for uncovering stakes. So think a little bit deeper beneath what was said and figure out, why does this matter? Why did this matter now? What's on the line for them? What makes this urgent? And that allows you to think of both positive and negative stakes to the client and people. I think we're often running away or running towards something. So it allows you to layer this into your content. Maybe. What happens if they don't have this thing they want? One client I have is a sleep consultant for, you know, new parents. So what happens if your kid doesn't sleep or you're like a zombie all day. So things like that. So even though those things are implicit, you make them explicit by in your content too. So to say it like this is what happens if you, if you are persistently deprived of sleep or things like that. And it's just a process of you know these things but you got to say it, it's not enough to know it. And then the S is 4 then giving a little bit of your process away. So simplifying like give them a next step. That's like simplifying the next steps into a few steps. Just do one, two, three, do one thing. This is one thing that my clients do to get results and it's allowing them to get a result even before they work with you. It doesn't have to be everything, it's just. Or it could even just be naming the process you work through. Like I'm going through this trust. But it was like a two day workshop for me. So like there's much more detail to going through. There were examples with actual clients. So like I'm okay to give things away because I believe sure, use it and get results for yourself but like some people will want help beyond this and I just believe there's a lot of abundance in the world and I'm not going to stop someone from working with me by being generous in giving a piece away. It can be the first step of a process you dive into. It could be a high level overview, it could be showing how one thing you do worked in a client's life. So that way you're telling a testimonial within your content as well but like showing it anyways. And then the final T is tied to sales or tie to your call to action or invitation. That could be literally making an invitation. Hey, if this presented with you, if my one on one coaching is much deeper, it's customized to you, it's personalized to you. Book a sales call with me@foxy ca that's actually mine but anyways in the process you could also be. If it's not a direct invitation like a sales call, it could be to the next step. Maybe it's a lead magnet, maybe it's a workshop you're having, but just tying it to something that allows them to take an action. It could even be one of the social media save this or share it if you want to. But I prefer for you to tie it to sales because you know my one on one coaching is called money making priorities and you don't get to make money if you don't make offers. So don't be nervous to make offers. If you've done all this work of like, you know, thinking about their problem, giving them a bit of a solution, it's, it's time to, you know, trade some of that trust in for funds.
- [22:27]
Drea
But yeah, yeah, oh my gosh, yes, I'm, I'm totally with you when it comes to being generous and being, giving to our communities. I mean, we, this business that we build is essentially building a community. And so having that level of generosity is key. But another question I have around the same topic is how do we protect ourselves? How do we make sure that we're not going to burn out in this process of being generous and, and teaching and educating online in our content?
- [22:58]
Fopsy
Really great question. So the way I did this was to say, see if you can work on creating pillar content, things that you can refer to regularly. So I think for you, that's your podcast, like one core thing you're doing every week that you just do consistently. For some people it's a blog, for others it's email. Although I find that if you can make it a public thing so like LinkedIn, like podcasts or YouTube that people can find it's ideally better in the long run. But the, the level of allowing yourself to plan a little bit and say, hey, I want to create, you know, one piece of content per week for the next quarter allows you to maybe batch out that work in advance. And if you don't get to 12, maybe you get to 6, at least it's done. And you know that even if I don't do anything for the next quarter, there's something rolling out once every week, once every two weeks. And I think that's helpful if you are burnt out with content. We also have to look at what's happening in your life. Like, I have one client who is going through quite a bit. Her mom is dealing with cancer and so this is just a really busy time and a. She has to be emotionally available because this is life matters, you know, and time is precious. And so she decided that life is actually better for her. Like being live is easier than having to be pre recorded. She feeds off the energy of other people responding to her and you know, for other people that would be really overwhelming. Like, oh my God, I have to look good, I have to be prepared. So it really depends on you and what you, you are comfortable doing or where your energy is aligned. I could talk forever, but like, if I have to. I used to be good thinking on paper, but I think I'm Losing it. But now I'm able to, like, talk to create content. So I talk to my chatgpt when I want to create content. So I use my strengths there as well. So I think what I'm trying to say is to prevent burnout, you really have to examine what are your strengths, what are you able to do easier than others and lean into it. And then if you can help yourself a little bit by planning in advance, figuring out, you know, what the corpuses you want to cover over the next month, quarter are, it's helpful. If not, also allow yourself to repurpose. If you've been doing this for a minute and you have pieces, you know, trainings you've done, if you've had lead magnets you had in the past, if you have client stories in your archives that you haven't used, allow yourself to repurpose. It doesn't have to be brand new every time it's new to someone. And if you work before, it probably will work again. So allow yourself to repurpose as well. But what's your take on that? How would you approach preventing burnout with content creation? I mean, you've been doing this for ages, so what do you do?
- [25:36]
Drea
I know, yeah, I 100% agree. It's like, first of all, recognizing the signs of burnout, some people don't realize that they're going through it until they're going through it. And so it's kind of like layering in reset points so that you don't get to the burnout spot. And this changes for everyone. So for me, for instance, I very rarely work or create content on the weekends because I need those two days to recharge. And even now with having kids, sometimes I just give myself more grace. I'm not producing as much content as I used to because of this season in my life. Right. And so I think it's recognizing that, but absolutely. Repurposing content marketing to your preferences. Like, I'm a talker too. So for me, if I could talk it out, the content is going to get done way faster than if I have to write it out and then not being afraid to kind of templatize yourself. So I've been working on this concept a little bit because I do this, it's like, it's like a capsule wardrobe, but for your content.
- [26:36]
Fopsy
I like that.
- [26:37]
Drea
Okay. Yeah. So it's this idea of like, I wait, I have, like, outfits that I wear. I know what size I am, I can go and buy. If I buy, like, I buy the same Skirt. I have this skirt in like 15 colors because it just looks good on me. So, like, I don't have to think about it. I'm just like rotating through those colors. So it's like, what's that version of your content marketing? And it's similar to content pillars, but kind of a little bit more wiggle room into your own preferences because sometimes people are like, like lean, more lifestyle brand than more, you know, like strict service based business. And so sometimes a more lifestyle brand people get stuck with these content pillars because they're like, well, this piece of content doesn't fit with the content pillar. It's like. But it still fits with your overall aesthetic. So, you know, you can mix and match it. But to be honest with you, I think a lot of us get burnt out with content and we pretend that we aren't. And so the real question is, why is burnout such a bad thing? And like, how can we just go, oh, I need a break and like, not have like the shame and guilt coming from that? That's the real question that I want to answer. I don't have an answer yet, but that's the one that I'm thinking about a lot, I guess.
- [27:46]
Fopsy
Another question I will layer on top is I, I know, like my personal social media. I don't think I could be burnt out of it because I enjoyed social media on a personal business. But the business side, sometimes I'm just like, it feels like I have a different Persona there. Yeah. And like, so I think that's part of the reason why maybe the. With the. Not burnout, but like, it's not as easy as just being Lucy Goosey on stories and my own personal thing. But I'm trying to also remind myself that I personally enjoy seeing people being people. So maybe I could just like chill a bit more as a guide. But I don't know what the answer is. I just know that sometimes when I switch to my business page, I'm just
- [28:27]
Drea
like, okay, yeah, yeah, I'm the same way. And I think it just takes practice and work. Our lives are constantly changing, so we're constantly changing too. And it's just a beautiful conversation. Anyways, thank you so much. This has been great. So I know some people who are listening are like, okay, I need Fobsy in my life. I want her coaching. I want her to be in her world. So tell me more about how people can work with you and what that is.
- [28:51]
Fopsy
Like, okay. So if you're listening, like, okay, I want to be in Fopsy's world. Well, come into the world. You can join my newsletter at Fopsy Ca Newsletter Fopsy spelled F O P S Y CA Newsletter and I offer one on one coaching so it's customized and personalized to you. And the best way to know if it's a fit is to book a free sales call. So the way that works is we spend an entire hour together. I ask you a question, a few questions about what's going on in your business, what is working, what's not working, what you've tried, what you want the next few weeks to look like. And I primarily work in 12 week sprints. I really like the focus that a short time allows you to have on your goals. You don't put all the goals in the world, you get to prioritize. And on that call we create a plan for the next 12 weeks what the core three things we'll achieve together are and you get to decide if it's a fit for you or not. So if that sounds like something exciting that you want to do with a one on one coach, head over to Fopsy Ca call Fopsy CA call and book your call. And I'd love to learn more about you and work together. Potentially beautiful.
- [29:53]
Drea
I'm going to put that link and all the links in the show notes. You can find them@onlinedrea.com 404fopsy thank you so much for coming on the show today.
- [30:02]
Fopsy
Thank you for having me. It was fun, it was lovely and I'm excited to, you know, get into your awesome Warren. It's lovely meeting you. I followed the podcast for a while so this is nice to be on it.
- [30:13]
Drea
Yay. I love to hear that. And hey listener, if you want to be on the podcast or if you want to support the show, you can give us a five star rating on Apple Podcasts or Spotify. It helps keep us in the top 100 marketing podcasts. And on my website I do have an application where if you want to be a guest you can apply go to onlinedrea. Com podcast and at the bottom of the page you will see the intake form for that Coming up next. I have more amazing episodes for you. Stay tuned. I will see you then. Bye for now.