← The Mindful Marketing Podcast (Formerly Known As The Savvy Social Podcast)
The Mindful Marketing Podcast (Formerly Known As The Savvy Social Podcast)
What's Working for Email List Growth in 2026 with Jennie Wright
00:27:48
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- [00:01]
A
One of my favorite ways to market my business is through my email list. But the tricky thing about email lists is that you need more leads on the list in order for the list to work. And that's why today I'm really excited to have Jenny Wright on the podcast to talk all about email list building and how you can get the right people into your world. But first, a word from our sponsor. Riverside is the all in one podcast recording and editing tool that I use for this right here show. I use it to edit not only the audio and the video, it is like Chef's Kiss magical, making the entire process so, so easy. Plus, I love their Magic AI clips. Their little AI robot in the background pulls out the most impactful moments of the episodes without me having to comb through and do it myself. Resizes them for social media. So those vertical videos you see on TikTok and Reels, those all come from Magic AI inside of Riverside. It's literally one click. It spits out 10 clips. I pick the best one and away I go. Saves me so much time. If you want to get on the Riverside train, check it out today, the links in the show notes and make sure to use my code DREA D R E A at checkout to get 15% off your membership. Jenny, welcome to the show.
- [01:17]
B
Thanks so much. I appreciate you having me.
- [01:19]
A
I'm excited to dive in this conversation just to be a little nosy too, about what's working in 2026 with lead generation. But let's start with your story. How did you even get into this world?
- [01:30]
B
Completely by accident, of course.
- [01:32]
A
Of course.
- [01:33]
B
Who doesn't? I don't think anybody. Does anybody really choose this or do we just all fall into it somehow? I'm not sure.
- [01:40]
A
But I was a graceful stumble.
- [01:42]
B
Sure, sure. Mine was sort of a fall on your, you know, what backwards. But I used to be in gold mining and investor relations here in Toronto, Canada, and gold mining is a very volatile business to be in and companies regularly get sold and bought and people move and everything. And I was just one of those casualties in one of the companies that I was in. And luckily I was given a bit of a Runway after I left in order to figure out what I wanted to do. And my girlfriend was a real estate agent and she needed a VA and I had no idea what a VA was. So this is back in 2012. So I started working as a VA and to find clients I actually made an account on Fiverr and started. I know, right? Making $4 and 33 cents a gig. Which is insane. But quickly rose through the ranks there, and somebody started talking about online summits, and they needed research done for a virtual summit. And I started doing that, and I was like, this is really cool. Teach me all the things. And then I started doing summits, and I did, I think 33 summits in my first year that I produced. Email marketing is a big part of that.
- [02:49]
A
Yeah. Oh, my God, our story's so similar. So I started in 2014 on Fiverr, writing Facebook posts for $5. Yeah.
- [02:59]
B
Okay.
- [03:00]
A
So you. You know, the struggle.
- [03:01]
B
You're like, I'm getting $4 and 33 cents or whatever. No, it was $3.44. That was.
- [03:06]
A
Yeah, that was like a big cut.
- [03:08]
B
Yeah, huge, huge cut. And until you are allowed to raise your prices, that's it. That's all you're earning.
- [03:12]
A
No, back in our day, it was just $5. Now they can do all sorts of prices. It was just $5.
- [03:18]
B
Yeah. Well, I could add a little bonus thing at the end. We were allowed to. At the time, I think we were allowed to, like, add a, you know, give me a tip thing. And I kind of made that part of my pricing.
- [03:29]
A
Oh, yeah, me too. And then what I would do. And this is not sanctioned. I'm not recommending this. This goes against their terms of services. But I would proposition clients from that. Like, you need one. Facebook sews. Okay, how about I do all your Facebook posts and we can skip the Fiverr thing? And that's how I grew my business initially.
- [03:48]
B
Same, same. Oh, my God. We could spend the whole episode about that. But, yeah, I just started doing that. I started getting clients for summits. From there. It was, you know, email marketing, newsletter writing, website creation. When social media started really, really going, it was that then an OBM and now fractional marketing or head of marketing in different companies, working with my spouse to build out a podcast production company. Like, all the good things.
- [04:14]
A
Exciting. Okay, so there's been a lot of changes to this industry over the years. So can you talk about some of the big ones that, you know, businesses who are going into 2026, what are some of the changes that they need to be aware of in this online business? Online marketing space? Specifically when it comes to lead generation and list building.
- [04:35]
B
Yeah. We are in the world of AI. This is like when, you know, TVs were starting to be shown in, like, stores, on corners, and people like, TV will never take hold and radio will be king forever. Well, we all know how that turned out. And AI is similar. We're Never going back and people are always going to use AI. But how are you using it is very, very important in 2026 and I think we're seeing this pendulum shift. So what, a year and a half or two years ago it was, everything was written by AI. AI is still getting smarter, but we need to use it in a more intelligent way. When it comes to our lead magnets and our lead gen, people can now understand and see when something is AI, we have to use it in a smarter, more efficient way in order to still connect with our ideal client. So everything still has to have that human path. In my opinion, as somebody who really focuses on the lead gen side and not to just rely on it to write all of your content, all of your lead magnet, all of your, you know, your lead gen, all of that kind of stuff. Yeah, 2026 I think is important to really focus on that.
- [05:40]
A
Yeah, the AI in the room. I mean, I love it because it can be a great thought partner, but I also hate it because it's really easy to be lazy, I guess, in a way. Or to use it as a crutch, I should say. And so what are some of the interesting ways you're seeing this happen, like in real time? Do you have any examples to share with us of a good use of AI lead gen lead magnet creation?
- [06:03]
B
Absolutely. I now include a AI tool with my lead Magnet products that I sell. So I'll say, okay, you know, enter your name and email, pay me $12, I'll give you this XYZ lead magnet creation kit. And inside it is a trained AI to help you figure out what lead magnet you should create, but not to write all the content.
- [06:25]
A
Yeah, yeah, right.
- [06:27]
B
With clients, I'm constantly seeing people go that lazy route and you know, write their entire book with AI or something along those lines. And I'm not judging, I'm just saying it's more important, I believe, to go back. Like I just finished copy editing a book for a client and AI did not catch all the mistakes. Right. There was still issues. The best AI I found though over ChatGPT was Claude. Claude actually found more mistakes than ChatGPT, but even Claude missed some. So there still has to be that involvement of reviewing and adding that personal touch or not completely trusting a hundred percent that it's going to catch everything and still going over it. I think it's hugely important and something that, you know, if you want to be quote unquote lazy, just be careful.
- [07:14]
A
Yeah, yeah, I a hundred percent agree. Like there's a lot of humans still needed. Thankfully that's a good thing to create these. So let's talk about what makes a good lead magnet. Because back in our day it was PDFs, right? Everyone was doing these PDF lead magnets. But I've seen so many different ones from quizzes to um, one of my favorite is private podcasts, to interactive websites, to all sorts of things. So what does make a good like very practical lead generation lead magnet strategy?
- [07:47]
B
Hmm. So it's. And back when we started, remember the three part video series?
- [07:52]
A
Oh yeah. Yep.
- [07:53]
B
Yeah, that was huge. And the audio trainings. Anyways, what makes a really productive, really good lead magnet or a lead gen strategy now is not having just one. PDFs still work. Private podcasts obviously still work. Everything still works. But the strategy has to start at the end game and work its way backwards. So what is it that you're trying to connect to sell to involve with and then work your way backwards? Because a PDF is great for some people, but other people learn differently. Some people don't read PDFs, some people don't interact with interactive websites, some people just are visual learners or audio learners. You have to play into the audience that you have and also specific to again the end goal in mind. So if you're building a lead magnet for how to design better graphics on Canva for your clients in 2026, then a simple PDF is probably not going to cut it. It's most likely going to be more of an in depth training, a how to, maybe some private video somewhere where you, you can show them the ins and outs and potentially even some templates. Right. That's a great lead magnet and then a really great follow up series. And that's where a lot of people miss the mark is they miss out. They're like, oh, I just send my, you know, enter your name and email and I'll send you my thing. And I send one email with the delivery and maybe four or five very generic follow up series emails. But that's also not enough.
- [09:19]
A
Okay, so what should they send?
- [09:21]
B
They should create self selection and create deeper segmentation within their list.
- [09:26]
A
Okay.
- [09:27]
B
I mean we have the technology, right? So why not ask people what they want and then deliver only that to them. So they're not getting the blanket emails, they're not getting the four or five generics and the, you know, book a call email. Make it very specific. Are you a content creator? Are you a service provider? Are you a such and such? Let's get you exactly what you want. I serve all of this But I only want you to get the thing that you want. Click here to get the, you know, the X, the Y and the Z, then have a very specific email campaign directly to that particular avenue that they're in. And the CTA has to match, again, the avenue that they're. They're trying to get to. Right. So not everybody's going to need to book a call. Not everybody needs to buy your $3,000 or 6,000 or $60,000 coaching package. Be specific as to what the thing is and where they are in their journey. So the self selection could be, are you beginner, intermediate, or advanced?
- [10:24]
A
Right.
- [10:24]
B
Are you looking to buy, sell, or invest in property? Which level are you at? And I'll send you that curated content.
- [10:33]
A
Yeah.
- [10:34]
B
And that's where a private podcast could come into.
- [10:36]
A
Yeah, yeah. Okay. But I gotta talk a little bit about the tech. When we talk about the self selection here, is there one that you recommend?
- [10:43]
B
Mm, ghl. Go high level.
- [10:45]
A
Got it. Yep.
- [10:46]
B
Yeah. So what was it, a year and a half or two years ago, maybe even a little bit longer. There was the ClickFunnels vs. GHL fight, and I was a clickfunnels expert. And I was also on ActiveCampaign, and I had six other different services. I was spending $650 a month on my tech stack. I went to GHL for $99 a month and was able to eliminate $450. I still kept a couple things, $450 out of my tech stack. And GHL dolls are things that I'm talking about.
- [11:16]
A
Yeah, I've been hearing a lot of good things about it too. So I've been exploring it myself, and it does feel like a pretty robust tool, but I find that they all have a little bit of drama. So you just kind of like, pick your drama, right?
- [11:27]
B
Like, yeah, definitely pick your drama. It also really depends on the. On the space that you're in. Like, I'm in the technical space. I'm doing, you know, marketing campaigns, podcast campaigns, Facebook, social media, you know, CMO kind of stuff. Right. And I need a robust software that can handle all of those processes. And, you know, LeadPages can't handle that for me, it doesn't have the automations in the back end and all the different workflows that I need in order to make that happen. Yeah, Click Funnels does, but the price tag is really high. Yeah, it's like $300 a month. And other services like ActiveCampaign Kit, all those other ones are really, really good at the specific thing that they're good at. And if you only need to create a simple form, a simple landing page and a simple delivery system, go with kit.
- [12:16]
A
Yeah.
- [12:17]
B
If you want to have a little bit more of a robust automation and workflow, go with activecampaign. But you still need a page builder. Right. So your tech stack is really gonna depend on who you are and where you're at. You may not need a ghl. That might be too much of a, of an engine for you.
- [12:31]
A
Yeah.
- [12:31]
B
Right. You still might just need the Toyota Corolla and you don't need the BMW.
- [12:37]
A
Yeah, I like the car references too, because I never know what any of these cars are. I'm like, what's the affordable one? Hondas. I know that one.
- [12:44]
B
Okay.
- [12:45]
A
No, I think that's a, that's a really good analogy too because I do find that a lot of people are kind of like pigeonholing us into certain tech stacks or certain tools because they use it. And I like that you recommended the one that you like and then kind of gave a few other options as well. I think that's really practical. Practical for a lot of people. And ultimately it's. The tool is only as good as you use it. Right. So like pick the one that you're going to use. But I want to go back to something you said earlier because you were talking about lead magnets and you mentioned that you have a 12 one. So this brings up the conversation of a free lead magnet versus a paid lead magnet. What are your thoughts on that?
- [13:23]
B
I have, I have thoughts. I have lots of thoughts on that one. I have multiple lead magnets. So I have free lead magnets. I have a small paid one. I have a $9, I have a $12 and have my little ascension funnel.
- [13:37]
A
Right.
- [13:37]
B
And so that's from free to low paid to mid tier paid to higher paid, and then it books a call. Right. So I'm really pushing people through all the different levels and allowing them to self select. And if they want to stay at stage one for the $9, have at it. You'll have almost everything you need, but it's not going to get you to the finish line. Right. And so when you're thinking about free versus paid, you have to look at where you are in the ecosystem of your business right now. Are you trying to get more leads or are you trying to be really, really specific on the leads? Get and only get people who are willing to make a small investment to show their interest? Right. So if I was counseling somebody and I had a Client that really needed to build a lead magnet. I'd say build three different types of lead magnets. A free one that is just low barrier, easy peasy and it gets them five steps ahead of where they are. Have one that is a bit more robust and solves a little bit more of the problem, a little bit more complex and is also meant for a different type of somebody, like a consumer, a different way they consume. Could be audio, video, something along those lines. Right. So something a little bit more in depth. And then in the back end you can have that self selection piece which is for $12, for $9, for $23, whatever it is, get a little bit closer to the finish line or to the finish line, however you want to do it. And then I have my other ascension opportunities where you can get in touch and work with me and so on and so forth. I recommend for everybody they should have free, but have free in different ways and always have that follow up sequence that includes that self selection, that includes that list identifier as to where they are and then that really unique content that goes specifically to them.
- [15:20]
A
Yeah. So for someone listening who's like, okay, Jenny, I hear all of this and it's a lot. Where do I start? Like what, what's step one in this process for? Like how do we choose kind of lead magnet you're going to even create?
- [15:35]
B
Okay, so I have a whole process for that, but it is actually a lot simpler. So I recommend that you start again, always with the end goal in mind. What are you trying to achieve? Because if you build it without that, you're not going to get very far. What are you trying to achieve? And then work your way backwards. But if they want to create a lead magnet, have them think also how do you want the person to feel once they've consumed it? Really think about that because that's gonna create your path. And also as you're thinking about your lead magnet and putting people like ideas down on paper or however you wanna do it, you're eventually gonna cut probably about 50% of that out because everybody, well, the most people always add way too much to their lead magnet. Right. They're solving all the problems and they really need just to solve part of one of them, not the whole thing, but just get somebody five feet ahead of where they are right now and give them the propulsion and the ability to implement to a certain level. And then they can get in touch with you if they want more. Right. So we start from the end in mind. Write it all out before you Create it, probably cut a whole bunch of it out and just get specific and very niched in and make sure also that you think about how you want people to consume it and feel after they've done.
- [16:48]
A
So.
- [16:50]
B
That is going to be a great place to start.
- [16:52]
A
Yeah, yeah. And honestly, with mine, like, the biggest compliment is when people go through the lead magnet. So I have a free course that's like my main lead magnet and I designed it that way because I want to show what it's like inside of my main program. Right. So it's kind of like a little, I call it like a little Costco sample. Like, here's the sample, you're going to like it, but like you want the full, like full giant ass cheese, like. Right. So absolutely, that's how I do it. But the biggest compliment is when people go, oh, this is exactly like, like your lead magnet is exactly like it is in the, in the membership. And so that's always my goal with it, but it took me a long time to figure that out. Right. Like, I thought a course would be too much information, but it reflects what my membership is like, whereas some of my other ones can lead to other things because it's like a different process. Is that what you mean when, like, start with the end in mind, it kind of has to reflect the product 100%.
- [17:48]
B
So you don't want to create whiplash. So you don't want somebody getting your lead magnet and then getting an email afterwards to reference your program, product or offer. And none of it made sense as to why they actually came in. So if you're offering how to create vegan raw dinners for your family, and then your product is a cookbook that includes an animal protein, most likely you've created whiplash, and that's not going to be the right thing.
- [18:18]
A
Right.
- [18:18]
B
So, and that's a drastic example. Think about how it would work in your business. So if you have a membership like you showing what your membership is like is actually really smart because you're already training people into what it would be like to work with you. And the other thing, for a lead magnet, I also look at how are you going to overcome the three main objections to joining your program, product or service? Time, money, effort. So if you can solve those gently within your lead magnet as well, then you're already starting to overcome the objections of what it would be like to work with you. So in your membership in the lead magnet that you just referenced, you're incredibly smart. So I would imagine that inside your lead magnet, you are Overcoming those by showing how easy it is to be in that membership or consume that information or how readily available it is or how you know how accessible you are or however you're positioning it in order for the people who are consuming it to go, oh wow, okay, yeah, like Andrea, that's the person I want to learn from because X, Y and Z.
- [19:20]
A
Yeah, well, I mean if you go look at right now, it's not fully that optimized. But you know what, I think we're all a work in progress. So if y' all want to see a work in progress, then you can check that out.
- [19:30]
B
But I think they're all a work in progress though.
- [19:32]
A
Yeah. Well, one of the things I struggle with and maybe you could like I'll use myself as an example, but I'm just going to assume the listeners also struggle with this is I am a over explainer. Like you said, we give too much. But then I tend to shy away from like actually selling something when it comes time to sell. So like at what point, especially in that lead magnet follow up sequence, so like someone goes through the course, at what point do I say, okay, now join my program?
- [20:04]
B
Not right away. So here's what I do and it works very well. What I do is enter your name and email and I'll send you my whatever the confirmation email is. Here's the thing I promised you and here's what's about to happen. I promise or I'm telling you that I'm going to send you five or six emails over the next 10 or 12 days. The first email is going to have the subject line, so watch out for it. And here is how I'm going to help and serve you to get you closer to your goal. And just so you know, obviously just like anybody else, I offer XYZ as program partnership service at any time. You can check that out here and if you just want to consume what I've got for you, awesome. Do that. At the end of the sequence. I am going to share how we could potentially work closer together. And if you want to investigate that, I'd love to talk to you about it. I'm very upfront about it.
- [20:55]
A
Okay. I actually really like that. I think that the transparency is refreshing and people don't feel like they're like getting one pulled over.
- [21:02]
B
You know, I also like a video, so I love having a confirmation page because again, people don't always see the confirmation page and they don't always see the confirmation email. Remember like things are going to go to your spam so on and so forth. Since, like, what, 75 or 85% of most people are consuming these things on their phones, they're probably not going to see the confirmation page very well. They're probably going to look in their email. So having a video on your confirmation page and in your video, that's just like, hey, I'm Andrea. This is what I do. This is who I am. This is what you can expect. You know, creating that connection as quickly as possible and having that transparency, I think is essential and overcomes a lot of the hurdles that we see with email marketing. Whereas, like, who the heck is this? And why did I put my name in? Like, I don't remember asking for this course.
- [21:49]
A
Yeah, yeah, I love that. Okay, y', all, when you give me like a month and then you're gonna see a video on my confirmation page, I used to do that a lot, and then I kind of moved away from it a little bit because, you know, we always try different things. But honestly, I do find that the videos are work the best for me. It's how I teach inside of my program. There's a lot of live video. There's a lot of. Even when I give feedback to members, I'm doing a loom video. So I feel like that just feels like a natural fit. Okay, so I want to end with this question. What is the future of, like, lead generation and lead magnets? Because what I'm observing from just my own clients and kind of how we move through the space, especially those of us who've been in online business for a while, is like, we recognize what's happening. We go, oh, okay, I get it. And we kind of gravitate towards, like, newer experiences. Like, I signed up for one recently where it was basically a website that was like a game. And, like, you played the game. And at the end I realized, oh, that was a quiz the entire time. But I felt like I was playing a game. And so I was like, oh, that's clever. But I don't know if that's just cutesy or. Or if I'm just a marketer and I like it. You know what I mean? Because as marketers, sometimes we're like, that's fun. But then actual people don't like it. So what do you see as, like, the future of the this space when it comes to lead generation and, like, building email lists?
- [23:13]
B
I think that's actually a really clever thing that that person did, by the way. I think we're always going to see this repetition of the same cycles over and over. What worked in 2012, you know, will work again. Like we're kind of like seeing the fashions from the 90s coming back right now, which is kind of scary for me, quite honestly. A little bit of flashback.
- [23:31]
A
Yeah.
- [23:31]
B
But everything is cyclical. We, we really are not going to come up with a hundred percent brand new like ideas. There's just going to be this elevation of technique or something cool and neat and clever that you can add to it. And so the best thing that I can recommend for people to do is to a B test. Okay, so your confirmation page could have a video, but you should a B test with 50, 50 traffic on a confirmation page that doesn't have video and then look at your stats and then make the decision as to whether or not you're going to keep it right. Everything is not new just because we're adding new things like AI. Everything that worked and when we started out still works. It just needs to have that elevation. You should be doing a B testing. You should be looking at metrics. If you, if you're an entrepreneur right now and you don't have a monthly statistical report of the downloads, the open rate, the click through rate, you know all of that from your email marketing, your lead magnets and your socials. Do it start now because you need three months or 90 days of data to determine what is actually working. Because if not, you're just trying to like figure it out and you're not actually going to know and you're not, you're going to think, oh my God, this lead magnet isn't working. I'm not getting calls from it. But what you'll actually see is the registration rate is really, really high, but people only open the first email and then they die off. Your issue is your first email. Go fix that, then go back and get more data and then fix the next problem that you're seeing. Where are people getting hung up in your process? That's how you create better lead magnets, better processes, automations and workflows in order to get people from point A to point B, C, D, E and F. And having us just use our intuition. We have these tools available and that's the difference, really?
- [25:17]
A
Yeah.
- [25:17]
B
We have these tools available to us, use them to their fullest and you'll be able to create better everything.
- [25:25]
A
Yeah, I love this so much because it's like back to basics, right? Like we don't have to reinvent the wheel. The wheel has been invented. We just need to look at what's front of us. And, like, optimize that to make it better. That's totally what I'm all about here. I love this. And so for those people who are listening, who are like, I need more. Jenny, in my world, you have a Path to Paid Leads kit. Can you tell us about that and what we get when we sign up?
- [25:49]
B
Absolutely. So it's my paid path playbook. I love alliteration. The English major in me comes out occasionally.
- [25:54]
A
Oh, my God. I'm an English major, too.
- [25:56]
B
We have to talk.
- [25:57]
A
Okay. We're twins. Anyways, continue.
- [26:00]
B
And this is how to design a lead magnet that attracts the right people and puts them on the path to a paid customer client. And so instead of just trying to figure it out on your own and see what works, it's really shrinking down that time from what do I want to do for Lead Magnet and is it working for me so that you spend less time in that, you know, worrisome stage and you can actually then work on your optimization. And so it is a PDF, I can't even remember. I think it's like, I don't know, 15, 20 pages or whatnot, but it's really cool. And it has all the different pointers what to think about. It gives you prompts on what to write. It gives you some AI prompts to put into your own AI to get really good responses back because your AI knows you better than I know you and will help me to or help you actually to to get that information. It is completely free. There is no charge for it, and there is an offer off the back end, so transparency right there.
- [26:52]
A
Oh, I love it. Okay, the link to that is going to be in the show notes, y'. All. OnlineDrea.com 398. Jenny, thank you so much for coming on the show today.
- [27:01]
B
Absolutely. And congratulations on almost 400 episodes. Huge accomplishment.
- [27:05]
A
Thank you. Thank you. Yes. And listeners. Hey, if you want your question answered live during my Ask me Anything episode, on episode 400, head over to my social media. It's going to be the pinned post at all the tops of all my social media social media. And it'll be in my email throughout my list. You'll get the opportunity to ask a question that will be answered on the podcast. So check that out. Episode 400 is coming up soon. In the meantime, make sure you rate and review us on Apple podcasts. And Spotify helps keep us in the top 100 marketing podcasts. And that's all because of your support. I'll be back at you soon with another episode next week. That's all for today. Bye for now.