What Erik Huberman Knows About Marketing That You Don't! 💵 E92

Summary

The Money Mondays: Episode 92 - "What Erik Huberman Knows About Marketing That You Don't!"

Release Date: October 21, 2024
Host: Dan Fleyshman
Guest: Erik Huberman, Founder of Hawk Media

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Introduction to the Episode

In Episode 92 of "The Money Mondays," host Dan Fleyshman welcomes Erik Huberman, the dynamic founder of Hawk Media. With over a decade of experience in the marketing industry, Erik shares invaluable insights into effective marketing strategies, building scalable businesses, and the importance of philanthropy in modern enterprises. This episode delves deep into what sets successful brands apart on social media, the significance of diversification in investments, and the impact of strategic acquisitions.

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Erik Huberman’s Journey and Hawk Media’s Evolution

[01:33] Erik Huberman provides a concise biography, tracing his entrepreneurial journey from a struggling start in real estate to founding Hawk Media. He highlights his ventures, including an online music company, e-commerce businesses, and his role in consulting for over 5,000 brands. Erik emphasizes the importance of building credibility and adapting to market changes, which eventually led to the creation of Hawk Media.

Notable Quote:
"We've built Hawk Media to be the best at what we do, but easy to work with. That was always our vision." – Erik Huberman [01:33]

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The Roll-Up Strategy: Scaling Through Acquisitions

[05:48] Erik Huberman explains Hawk Media’s roll-up strategy, wherein the company acquires competitors and complementary agencies to rapidly scale its operations. This approach allows Hawk Media to integrate specialized talent and existing client bases, accelerating growth without the slow process of building from scratch.

Key Points:

• Talent Acquisition: Instead of training new hires, Hawk Media opts to acquire experts with proven track records.
• Efficiency: Acquisitions enable faster market penetration and service diversification.
• Synergy: Combining multiple agencies creates a more robust and versatile offering for clients.

Notable Quote:
"One plus one can equal three. That's a lot faster and more efficient than building organically." – Erik Huberman [05:48]

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Maximizing ROI with Limited Budgets

Dan and Erik discuss strategies for brands with limited budgets seeking to maximize their return on investment (ROI). They underscore the importance of understanding sales cycles and focusing on long-term customer engagement rather than immediate sales.

Key Insights:

• Consistent Investment: Brands should aim for a consistent monthly advertising budget (minimum $10,000) to sustain impactful campaigns.
• Nurturing Leads: Implementing email and SMS marketing to maintain engagement over the typical 3-week to 3-month sales cycle.
• Organic Growth: Prioritizing organic methods such as partnerships and influencer collaborations before scaling paid advertising.

Notable Quote:
"If you're not nurturing and following up with your audience, you're missing out on 75 to 80% of your potential revenue." – Erik Huberman [00:13]

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Common Mistakes Brands Make on Social Media

Erik identifies that many brands falter on social media by neglecting the extended sales cycle inherent to online purchasing. Instead of focusing solely on immediate conversions, brands should develop comprehensive strategies that keep potential customers engaged over time.

Key Points:

• Extended Sales Cycle: Recognizing that online sales often take between three weeks to three months.
• Retargeting: Utilizing retargeting strategies to keep the brand top-of-mind for potential customers.
• Comprehensive Marketing: Incorporating email and SMS campaigns alongside social media ads to enhance customer retention and conversion rates.

Notable Quote:
"Most brands are stuck on 'buy now.' They forget that the average sales cycle online is between three weeks and three months." – Erik Huberman [05:23]

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Investing Outside the Business: The Importance of Diversification

Erik elaborates on the necessity of diversification as a money preservation strategy. By spreading investments beyond the core business, entrepreneurs can safeguard their wealth against market volatility and unforeseen business risks.

Key Insights:

• Economic Stability: Diversification helps in maintaining financial stability by mitigating risks associated with relying solely on one income stream.
• Future-Proofing: Protects against potential business downturns, technological disruptions, or market changes.
• Long-Term Growth: Ensures that wealth continues to grow and outpace inflation, providing a safety net for future ventures.

Notable Quote:
"Diversification is a money preservation strategy. Even Warren Buffett made his money by spreading it around after focusing deeply on insurance." – Erik Huberman [10:48]

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Strategic Decision-Making: When to Sell Your Business

Dan poses a scenario where Erik advises founders on deciding whether to sell their company. Erik emphasizes the alignment of goals and the benefits of partnering with Hawk Media for continued growth versus traditional acquisition models that may impose restrictive conditions.

Key Points:

• Alignment of Success: Hawk Media’s success is tied to the success of the companies they acquire, fostering a symbiotic relationship.
• Growth Focus: By partnering with Hawk Media, founders can focus on scaling their business without the burdens of day-to-day operations.
• Deal Structures: Unlike traditional buyers requiring earn-outs and performance guarantees, Hawk Media offers more aligned and supportive acquisition terms.

Notable Quote:
"If you want to make a lot more money and scale aggressively, partnering with us is a good deal. If not, then it’s not the right fit for either of us." – Erik Huberman [12:13]

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Effective Social Media Marketing Strategies

Erik delves into the nuances of successful social media marketing, stressing the necessity of consistent and strategic engagement rather than sporadic, high-budget campaigns.

Key Insights:

• Long-Term Engagement: Continuous interaction with potential customers is crucial due to the prolonged decision-making process.
• Retargeting Efforts: Implementing retargeting campaigns to reinforce brand presence and encourage eventual purchases.
• Content Strategy: Developing a storyline and consistent messaging across multiple touchpoints to build a strong brand narrative.

Notable Quote:
"When someone sees an ad and then moves on, they might intend to buy later. You need to retarget them until they take action." – Erik Huberman [16:11]

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Client Selection and Agency Philosophy

Erik discusses Hawk Media's approach to client acquisition, emphasizing quality over quantity. The agency maintains high standards for potential clients, ensuring mutual respect and a collaborative working environment.

Key Points:

• Budget Requirements: Minimum budget thresholds ensure that campaigns are impactful and sustainable.
• Client Compatibility: Avoiding partnerships with difficult or uncooperative clients to maintain a positive agency culture.
• Quality Service: Focusing on delivering exceptional results and building long-term relationships with clients.

Notable Quote:
"We don’t work with assholes. If they're going to be difficult, we're out." – Erik Huberman [18:14]

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Success Factors: What Brands Do Right

Reflecting on over 5,000 clients, Erik highlights the essential elements that successful brands possess. He underscores the importance of having a great product and robust marketing pipelines to support scalable growth.

Key Insights:

• Outstanding Products: A high-quality product that genuinely meets customer needs is the foundation of successful marketing.
• Scalable Marketing Pipelines: Efficient systems for email capture, SMS marketing, and retargeting ensure that increased brand visibility translates into sales.
• Compelling Brand Stories: Creating a unique value proposition and fostering a strong brand culture to drive word-of-mouth and customer loyalty.

Notable Quote:
"If you have a great product, marketing is easy. If you have a bad product, marketing is near impossible." – Erik Huberman [20:13]

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Investing in People: The Value of Strategic Hiring

Erik emphasizes the critical role of investing in the right talent to alleviate bottlenecks and drive business growth. He advises founders to identify tasks that consume excessive time and delegate them to capable team members.

Key Points:

• Founder’s Role: Recognizing that the founder is the most valuable employee and leveraging their time effectively.
• Bottleneck Identification: Understanding which aspects of the business are hindering growth and addressing them through strategic hires.
• Efficient Scaling: Hiring roles that directly contribute to removing inefficiencies and fostering sustainable growth.

Notable Quote:
"You're the most expensive employee. If you can't afford to pay someone to take over a task that's consuming your time, you need to find a more efficient way to handle it." – Erik Huberman [24:49]

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Personal Branding as a Marketing Channel

Erik discusses the significance of personal branding for entrepreneurs, positioning it as an additional marketing channel that complements the company’s efforts. Building a personal brand can open doors to speaking engagements, media appearances, and broader networking opportunities.

Key Insights:

• Extended Reach: Personal branding can amplify the company's presence through individual influence and credibility.
• Diversified Marketing: Combining personal and corporate branding strategies enhances overall marketing effectiveness.
• Opportunities: Personal branding facilitates access to exclusive platforms and partnerships that can drive business growth.

Notable Quote:
"When you build a personal brand, it opens a lot of doors that the company alone can’t achieve." – Erik Huberman [27:04]

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Incorporating Philanthropy: Giving Back with Purpose

Erik elaborates on the importance of integrating philanthropy into business operations. He believes that successful brands have an obligation to give back to society, not just as a marketing strategy but as a fundamental responsibility.

Key Points:

• Expectation of Consumers: Modern consumers, especially Gen Z, expect brands to engage in philanthropic activities.
• Strategic Giving: Leveraging the company’s marketing prowess to support nonprofits and charities more effectively than just financial donations.
• Societal Impact: Contributing to societal well-being enhances the brand’s reputation and fosters a positive community impact.

Notable Quote:
"If you’re fortunate enough to run a successful business, it’s your obligation to give back and make the world a better place." – Erik Huberman [28:23]

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Building Scalable Charities

Dan and Erik discuss their approach to philanthropy, focusing on creating scalable and replicable charity models. Initiatives like toy drives and dining programs are designed to be easily adopted by others, maximizing their impact.

Key Insights:

• Replicable Models: Developing charity programs that others can easily implement independently to broaden their reach.
• Hands-On Involvement: Encouraging active participation through volunteer opportunities rather than just financial contributions.
• Sustainable Impact: Ensuring that charity initiatives have lasting effects by making them easily adoptable and scalable.

Notable Quote:
"If I do it without my name on it, it becomes a global thing people can do. Tipping dinners and toy drives all over the world." – Dan Fleyshman [32:50]

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Closing Remarks and Call to Action

In the concluding segment, Dan encourages listeners to engage with Erik and Hawk Media through social media and explores the broader mission of "Money Mondays" to foster open discussions about money, business growth, and philanthropy.

Key Takeaways:

• Engagement: Listeners are urged to follow Erik on social platforms and explore Hawk Media’s offerings.
• Community Building: Emphasizing the importance of sharing knowledge and supporting each other in the entrepreneurial journey.
• Continuous Learning: Encouraging continual education and strategic planning to enhance business success and societal contributions.

Notable Quote:
"The whole concept of Money Mondays is to have very blunt discussions about money because we grew up thinking it's rude to talk about it." – Dan Fleyshman [34:53]

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Conclusion

Episode 92 of "The Money Mondays" provides a comprehensive exploration of effective marketing strategies, scalable business practices, and the ethical imperative of giving back. Erik Huberman’s expertise offers listeners actionable insights to enhance their marketing efforts, make informed investment decisions, and integrate philanthropy into their business models. This episode serves as a valuable resource for entrepreneurs, brand owners, and anyone interested in the intersection of business growth and social responsibility.

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Connect with Erik Huberman and Hawk Media:

• Website: hawkmedia.com
• Social Media: @erickuberman

Join Next Week on The Money Mondays:
Stay tuned for more in-depth discussions with industry experts, practical advice on making and managing money, and inspiring stories of successful entrepreneurs making a difference.

Transcript

[A]

Diversification is a money preservation strategy. You know, if you look at most people, even Warren Buffett, he made his money on Geico and like going deep in insurance and then took that, spread it around.

[B]

What are most brands doing wrong on social media?

[A]

It's forgetting that people take time to buy things. The average sales cycle online is generally between three weeks and three months. If you're not doing things to nurture and actually follow up with those people and stay in front of them and keep them coming back, you're probably missing out on 75, 80% of your potential revenue.

[B]

Ladies and gentlemen, welcome to the Money Mondays. I am very excited for our guest today. This is one of the few people that I admire in the marketing space because he's been in the game just as long as I have, if not longer. And he's just been buying up all of our competitors, buying up all of our friends and doing a full fledged roll up in the category. And right now we're sitting in a parking lot. That's why we're in the RV Motorhome for busy gentlemen like this. I have to go drive to them. And he was speaking at an event that I'm actually throwing today here in the mortgage industry. I recently launched Elevator Funding, a mortgage company where we do everything in the mortgage space with Emortgage Capital as our partner. And they are throwing this mortgage event with us today here in Irvine, California. And so I decided to bring the RV Motor home. Trevor brought us out here so that I could catch Mr. Eric Huberman from Hawk Media. So as you guys know, we cover three core topics. How to make money, how to invest money, how to give it away to charity. This gentleman knows how to do all of those things at scale and so I'm really excited to interview him. So what we're going to do is have him do the quick 2 minute bio so we can get straight to the money.

[A]

Sure bio. So I mean, it's fun because of the path of money. I graduated 08, went into real estate one week before the whole industry collapsed and made $350 my first year out of college and went, this isn't going to work. So I started working on an online music company, built basically like masterclass for the music industry, built that for two years, got it profitable, hired a CEO and then built two e commerce companies consecutively. The last run out of an incubator called Science that had just launched our Shave Club, worked with their portfolio, built an activewear brand, sold it to Bally Total Fitness, and then this brings us to about 11 years ago, started consulting and advising for a bunch of brands, saw how broken the marketing ecosystem was and started scaling it. So fast forward, it's been 11 years. We've got about 250 full time people. We work with over 5,000 brands. We've acquired 21 different agencies. Yeah, it's crazy. We have venture fund and we're invested in over 100 different marketing tech and e commerce tech companies. We're an owner in the women's soccer team in la, got a family office on the commercial real estate side. And yeah, probably.

[B]

It's not like we need to do seven episodes. Let's start with the beginning. Hawk Media. Yeah, when you decide. And by the way, Hawk is spelled with an E at the end in case you guys are looking it up. It's H A W K E. Tell us about Hawk Media. How did it start? Why did it start? Let's go into that.

[A]

Yeah, it was really, I had built the credibility and actual knowledge on how to build these digital brands when it was new. I mean, this was 2013. I got a call from Red Bull and they're like, how do we do this digital stuff? That was a common phrase. What is this digital stuff?

[B]

We're going to do a tweet.

[A]

Yeah, exactly. And so I just started consulting and advising and calling myself this outsourced CMO and that resonated. And so then I started getting more business and I could handle and I tried to use other agencies to actually execute and I just found that 99% of them are full of shit. And so I just, after a few burned some of my clients, I went, I can't afford to keep this up. I got to just build my own team. And so I hired a small team using my consulting fees and literally went back and said, now we can just execute it. Let's keep it super flexible. We're going to be the best at what we do, but easy to work with. Was always what we had in mind and how we built it and that was it. Off to the races.

[B]

So let's say someone out there is a brand owner. Why should they consider using an agency like Hawk or one of its competitors?

[A]

Sure, I think, I mean there's a lot of reasons. One is I'm going to be able to attract and hire better talent than most companies. There's the really sexy brands and the high flyers and the really great companies that, you know, they might be able to compete, but most marketers don't want to go work at, you know, just some other company. And so you're a victim of the talent you can attract in that situation. So that's number one. Number two, the forest from the trees thing is really important. So you know, we watch a lot of companies try to bring things in house and that usually lasts six months to a year because it takes about that long to see the degrade of all your marketing starts going south because you don't have that outside perspective. And that's why every Fortune 2000 uses agencies. And the idea that it's binary or one or the other I think is crazy. And then for us, we've now built an AI system that's digesting over 8,000 companies, marketing, media and revenue data in real time, training AI against it so it can look at an individual company and see exactly what's going wrong and right. You don't have that yourself. And so all the softwares we have, all the tools we have, all the knowledge we have, you're not going to build that in house unless you're a Fortune 500. And then go figure, all the Fortune 500s use agencies. So that's a big aspect.

[B]

So what I often say is when someone wants to hire in house, they're like I want to hire Someone with 5 years experience and does this, this and this on on Meta. Someone with five years experience running paid ads is going to sell $2,000 a day of waffles and irons and pillows. They don't need to come work for you for eight grand a month.

[A]

Yep.

[B]

When they can make literally thousands of dollars a day selling knives or selling cutlery or selling freaking bubbles.

[A]

Last. They're not actually good at it. And then they'll come take that job.

[B]

They'll come work for you.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And so I always recommend on the agency side when you're first getting starting out. Listen, I understand but there are agencies actually like Hawk, which they'll start with sometimes with 5k, 10k, 20k budgets.

[A]

We still do.

[B]

Rather than most agencies which are like my agency, the 25k minimum. Mostly because in the influencer space you can't spend five grand and really figure it out. I need to actually spend enough money to matter. But for your agency you're able to like really track and really dial in because you own 21 different agencies of all different topics. So walk us through. Why did you go the roll up route? Why did you decide I'm going to go buy up a lot of the competitors interesting characters in the media tech space.

[A]

It's really, it's the same talent conversation. It's like, I can go and try to find a salesperson that can sell into something and like, a great. Let's take Amazon as an interesting channel because it's one of the better growing ones we have. So I can go hire an Amazon expert and a salesperson that can support them or try to train my sales team to do that. And that process is slow. We just talked about this before the podcast. Like, I want to be the best. Like, market, world, marketing, world domination is our mission statement. Like, we want to go for it. And so instead of like that slow build where maybe in the next year or two, I'll get to the point of what an agency is already doing, I can go find a great agency with really talented people that are already executing, give them my platform and everything we're able to do. And one plus one can equal three. So it's just at this stage of our company, it's a lot faster and more efficient and just a better process to just go buy.

[B]

So on the making money side, someone out there is like, I've got a brand or product or service, and I want to make money, but I only have ten grand to get started. What should they be looking for? They should be thinking about roi. Should they be thinking about branding? Should they thinking about hiring experts or consultants? Like, what are the first things someone can do when they're like, okay, I'm ready to go for my product is ready.

[A]

Yeah. I would say if you don't have a consistent ten grand a month to spend, don't take it. Put it back in your pocket. If you're a founder of a company, you need to go figure out how to drive revenue, whether it's funding or actual revenue. You gotta go build a board chest. Yeah, exactly. I mean, I spoke about this the other day at a conference. Like, the whole selling things out of your trunk, it's not a metaphor. It's a real thing. Yeah, me too.

[B]

I did it in traffic. Before I get into that story.

[A]

When I was selling lemonade as a kid, I used to run in front of cars because I knew they wouldn't run me over and they wouldn't say no.

[B]

But by the way, New York don't do that. Yeah, touche.

[A]

Ojai, California, was a small town. They were. Yeah, they were. They'd stop. I positioned myself at a stop sign, and then they'd stop at the stop sign, and I'd walk in front of their car and hold up a lemonade.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

So they had to say. I made them say no. But, yeah, I mean it really is. You got to go figure out how to start building your business organically in the beginning or get someone that's going to fund it, which I think people chase fundraising a little too quickly. It is easier in the beginning. But my dad used to tell me money's expensive. Like you're giving a piece of your company. If you actually believe your company is going to be worth hundreds of millions, billions of dollars, why the hell would you give up a piece of your company early on? We've bootstrapped Hawk to this point. We've never taken outside capital. Like if you can avoid it, that's great, but you have to be real with yourself, you might need the funding. And after that again, when you can spend a consistent 10 grand, then that's when you can get to start running some advertising, doing some email marketing people. It depends on the product or service of really what you're going to do. But even influencer marketing, depending. But it really starts with partnerships and things that don't cost money in the beginning. So like finding someone that aligns with your brand, that has an audience that's willing to put it out there, you know, calling in favors, asking for help, hitting up influencers that might give you a shout out. Your commodity at that point is time, because you don't have any money. So use your time to go find ways to get it out there. And then once you see the flywheel going, what's good about doing that? It's not just you need to save the money, you don't have it. It also forces you to really figure out what is the pitch, what is the value, how are people responding to it? Because when you're that in the weeds that you are selling your product personally, you learn a lot about your product.

[B]

So we're in San Diego, California, passing through Camp Pendleton and there's those two huge globe looking things on the right of the freeway. That's like a nuclear power plant. And something happened and the freeway was stopped. Like stop stopped. Like we're not going anywhere all day is the way they explained it. And so I thought basically I have hours to go. But my partner at the time, his dad was the main executive for Rhino Linings, which was doing around $200 million a year for truck betting back then. And him and the owner of the company were in the car with us. So as you can imagine they're very busy guys. They're frustrated because we're, we don't know when this multi hour traffic is going to end. But I happen to have 60 T shirts, five dozen T shirts in my trunk. 12 of each color.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

All different sizes. So it's not really. That part was a bit awkward. And so I got in the car and literally started selling T shirts.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

For hours around the. Until I sold all of them. But here's the fun part. The billionaire guy, the main owner, and the dad got out of the car and helped us.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And so they walked around and they just. And later they brought it up for like two years. How much fun they had going back to their roots of selling.

[A]

I was gonna say that's the thing is if you've got that entrepreneur bug, it's the game that's fun. It's not about like, doubt you made that much money off T shirts. It was just like, what am I gonna do with my time? I'm gonna go, you know, fucks this muscle a little bit. Have some fun with it.

[B]

I still think it was such a fun day.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

We're selling them for 10 to 15 bucks each time. 60. So I was like, made like six or seven bucks.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Gross. Not net, by the way. That's. People don't realize gross sales versus net sales. Okay. So on the investing side, why would someone, as they're growing their business, decide to start finally investing outside of their business?

[A]

Okay.

[B]

They've started to scale their company. Now it's time, like, hey, maybe I'm gonna put 50 grand into real estate or 50 grand stocks.

[A]

Diversification is a money preservation strategy. So I've heard this a lot recently, and I believe it. You make your money on being hyper deep and focused. You know, if you look at most people, even Warren Buffett, he made his money on Geico and like going deep in insurance and then took that, spread it around. When I say maintain, I mean outpacing inflation, like maintaining according to how money is degrading, basically. And so to me, it's the forced function of getting some money out of your business so that you actually create a stable foundation to keep building on. Because if you keep everything in your business, businesses are risky. They're always risky. Companies go out, you know, there's companies that go out of business after 100 years. So it's. It's crazy to keep everything tied into one thing. And so as it starts to make money, having the ability to take some of it out and put it away so that you're set, it's the kind of saving for retirement thing. But honestly, as an entrepreneur, most aren't going to retire. But it's still like God forbid the business that I've put all my time in ends up not being necessary or AI takes it over, etc. I've taken enough money out over time that I'll be okay and I'll figure out the next thing. I think it's a safety net.

[B]

So let's say someone listening has built up their company. They're doing $4 million in sales and Eric Huberman from Hawk Media calls and says, I want to buy your company. How do they make a decision of what the heck to do? Should they sell? Should they wait? Should they keep going? How do they figure out what to sell for and why to sell? And how do they explain, like just walk us through that process or thought process.

[A]

Yeah, we're a unique buyer. Like we're looking to buy people that want to keep growing generally and if, or if they need an out. But like we're not a big cash buyer, meaning like we're not just handing them a check and going goodbye. So it's one way or another they're going to be partnered up with us. And so the people that partner up with us are the ones that are like, I don't have a three year window or a two year window on this and I'll explain why. I either amount now and I can't hang out because most, other than us, most companies require an earn out, which means you have to stick around, you have to keep running it. And if you don't hit your metrics, you lose everything. And so you get a little bit of cash up front. Usually it's like, you know, 15% of the value of the deal, maybe half of your profit for the year. You might get in some of these deals, but then everything else in contingent on you growing the business. And that's how the buyer mitigates their risk on making sure that you actually stick around. For us, we just do it. If you succeed, we succeed. If you fail, we fail. We make it a lot more aligned. And so that works really well for people that want to keep going after those couple years. Because again, after those couple years you don't own your business anymore. It's done or want to get out. Right now we're kind of, you know, in that middle ground where you're like, I'm going to hit the numbers for two years and get out. That might be better. But there's not that many buyers for that at that scale of 1 to 5 million in revenue. And so the real thing for us is we're going to take like, if you're running a business sub 4 million, 5 million. You're probably the head of HR, accounting, legal, sales, marketing, everything, Everything. And so we go, hey, thankfully we got, you know, we had some tailwinds. We grew this business big. We have a great platform, great executive team. You get all that. So now you, all you have to do is focus on growth. We're going to take over the rest of this and then the thesis has to be do you think you can grow this a lot more aggressively if we take all the other bullshit off your plate? If you do, it's a good deal. If you don't, then it's not a good deal for either of us anyways. So that is the conversation we have is if like you want to go make a lot more money. And I'd say the thing a lot of times they're giving up is the idea that they're, you know, if someone thinks is doubling every year and they think they're going to be worth hundreds of millions of dollars on their own, then it also probably doesn't make sense. It's the person that's, you know, gotten it to this point, it's a lot of headwind and they go, I, you know, I'm making the cash. But it's not really an agency under 10 million in revenue isn't worth that much. And so it's like, why don't we just make a lot better cash flow together? And that's really where it comes in.

[B]

All right, Eric, so You've had over 5,000 clients over the years for Hawk Media and ask you a very straightforward question. What are most brands doing wrong on social media?

[A]

On social media, yeah. It all goes into the same thing. Most brands are doing wrong in general and it has to do with social media too, is forgetting that people take time to buy things. I say that and everyone goes, well, yeah, but then when they look at their social media numbers, their metrics, they look at how they're selling, their strategy for how they run ads, it's all about buy today, buy now, buy now. And the average sales cycle online is generally between three weeks and three months. And so like Facebook as an example on Meta only tracks a one week sales cycle through any of their clicks. So you actually can't track as long as you need to track to actually see these things. And most people don't understand that. And when I say Most, I'm literally 99%. Like almost every agency I know, it's like they're still talking about Roas. And Roas is such A misleading number and it's just a terrible stat. And it's okay leading indicator if you understand how that plays into your marketing. But if you're not doing things to nurture and actually follow up with those people and stay in front of them and keep them coming back, you're probably missing out on 75, 80% of your potential revenue. And literally not. That's not exaggeration. So it's like, you know people, when I see all the struggles the past couple years of ecom, it's because people just didn't understand these things and so didn't do all the other pieces of it like email marketing and SMS marketing and retargeting to actually keep in front of their potential customers. And yeah, they just. When someone sees an ad and then let's be real, you're sitting bored between meetings or you're on the toilet or you're doing whatever and you're on your phone and you see an ad and you go, oh, that's cool. And then you move on. You might have intended to buy that, but you're going to need to see it again. And everybody knows this. But then when it comes to actually looking at their marketing, they forget.

[B]

So what I explain is I call it, I'm gonna retarget you till you buy or you die.

[A]

Yeah. 100%.

[B]

Once you click on something and then you've showed intent to want to buy this product or Adam serving you. Yeah, I'm gonna retarget you until you buy it or for the rest of your life.

[A]

And it works. I mean, I mean anecdotally I see it for myself. I'll see an ad and go, oh, that's cool. And I'll check it out and be like, I don't have time for this right now and I might get served for six months before I go, you know what, I need to just buy it.

[B]

I do want that thing.

[A]

Yeah. And that's normal. Everybody's had that experience and then they forget it. When they're on the marketing side versus the buyer side.

[B]

Yes. Yeah. So when I similar when I say with brands, they're always talking about the return on ad spend or the roi.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Like you don't realize that oftentimes people are watching social media content from the influencer. They're not necessarily like waiting with their credit card out.

[A]

Yeah, exactly.

[B]

Like they do want to see your fashion of a shirt or your fit tea out drink or your healthy product or your brand, whatever. But like then they do.

[A]

Yep.

[B]

But doesn't mean that they're in the moment to buy when they're next to their significant other, they're at the movies, they're at TV show, they're in a car at a stoplight. There's all sorts of times they're watching. And so it's not always. And that's also why our agency, we do not allow for you to do a one post campaign.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

So oftentimes like, oh, we just want to do a test and have like 50 influencers post.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

For 50 grand.

[A]

Like not gonna do anything.

[B]

No. Yeah, I, I'm not gonna promise you any of that stuff. Like it's insane because we don't know when they're gonna see it. I want them to do three posts each morning, two days later in the afternoon, maybe a week later at nighttime. So different times for the audiences. I want them to build up a story about, hey, I just got this product. Hey, I just used this product. Hey, guess what? The product was so cool. They let me give you guys a discount. I want to build a storyline for the brand. I don't want to just be like, hey, buy this protein today.

[A]

Well then back to the point, you have to have retargeting set up so that then when they actually go to the site now whenever they're surfing the Internet, they still see those ads around and maybe you're even repurposing that influencer content on those ads. And then on top of you're doing email and collecting their email and sms. So if they're not ready to buy, you're able to actually stay in touch with them forever, as you said, until they die or buy.

[B]

Buy or die.

[A]

And when they buy, I want them to buy again now. So I'm gonna still keep hitting it.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

Yep.

[B]

How often do you turn down clients?

[A]

Interesting. So we, we've always wanted to be the best at what we do and easy to work with. So I actually, other than, obviously we have, this is how much we can afford. Like you said it great too. Like 25 grand is what you need for an influencer campaign. For us, 10 grand per channel is really where you need to be. We can go down to five with certain brands, but other than like, we don't want to go lower than that. And so other than that, the only real rule we have about working with companies because we've been so surprised by products that I didn't think would be good, that just crushed it, etcetera, is we don't work with assholes. Like if they're going to be a dick we're out.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Other than that, we're going to do everything we can to help.

[B]

Also, people don't realize about the jerk rule about not working with the jerks is nothing's ever enough.

[A]

Correct.

[B]

So if you go crush it.

[A]

Yep.

[B]

Like, hey, we're gonna spend 100 grand and you go bring back 260.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And they were hoping for 150 and you brought back 260. Like, I thought you can do like three or 400.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Wait.

[A]

And it just gets worse because like, that's. Those are the people that like threaten legal action, do all this stuff that you're just like, what are you doing? Like, that's that. Yeah. You just the sort of narcissist. If you can spot a narcissist or sociopath before you can work with them or even early into working with them, get out. And the stat I tell my team, so 3 to 4% of people are sociopaths. It's an actual stat. And so on some level. And so we have currently about 700 companies running marketing for.

[B]

Right.

[A]

So if, let's say it's 3%, that's 21 companies. So 21 companies are being run by sociopaths. And that's if they don't.

[B]

That's.

[A]

If sociopaths don't overindex into entrepreneurship, which is also a thing. So we always know that there's a portion of our client base that is probably a little unhinged and we try to spot it. And if they're being irrational and that kind of thing, we do try to very amicably, very carefully just back out. That's how. But it's hard to spot during the sales process.

[B]

So on the other side, you've worked with over 5,000 brands over the years. What are brands doing right? What are they doing good out there?

[A]

You know, we 90% of what we do, and I think it's important is focused on the scalable, repeatable part of marketing. Because to me, it's the pipes that really grow a business. And then the viral part, the really good brand, etc. That's what comes over the top. That puts an X factor on everything. And I think where the number one thing companies do really well and the most important part is when you have a great product that people want. So, like, and we both run into it a lot, I'm sure, is the person that started a company for the sake of starting a company, not because anyone actually needs what they do. Those are tough. But when someone's actually got a great product and everybody likes it. Trying to think how much I can share with this. We have a. I can share the company, I can't share the partner. We have a company we're working with right now, it's Vanessa Hudgens and all of a Trevina's company, Cali Water, you've probably seen it and they're crushing it. And the reason is we then showed it to what is probably going to be a massive partner for them and we handed them a can because we have it in our office now. And they literally cracked it open, took a sip and went, mmm, this is awesome. Like it is that simple. Now they're going to be, it's, I mean, very big partner for them. And so those are the things that like, if you have a good product, marketing is easy. If you have a bad product, marketing is near impossible. And so that's number one again. Number two is getting all the pipes in order and getting your net in order. When I say net, I mean your email marketing capture, your sms, your retargeting all the things so that when something kicks off on the sort of viral side, that 10% of marketing, it's about branding and going viral and really building that when that happens, you're ready to capture all that opportunity and not let anything fall through the cracks. And then having something compelling to go build that brand and that differentiator and get the word out there and building that word of mouth and building that culture around it and everything that's big.

[B]

That's actually one of our catchphrases at Elevator Studio is we can't undo famous.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Like if we make you famous and we have 50 influencers post you and they got 50 million followers, for example, there's no take backs.

[A]

Yep.

[B]

But we also say we can leave the horses to water, we can't make them buy your stuff.

[A]

Yep.

[B]

Like, yeah, I can make you famous.

[A]

Yep.

[B]

But just because I make you famous doesn't mean that people actually want to buy your stuff. If your website doesn't work.

[A]

Exactly.

[B]

Targeting doesn't work if your checkout button's not working like, or as simple as.

[A]

Your differentiator for your product. And your value proposition isn't really that compelling. Like it's like, yeah, cool, no one cares happens.

[B]

Or another T shirt.

[A]

Yeah, yeah, exactly.

[B]

So it has to be something about your T shirt to make someone want to buy it and then.

[A]

Yep.

[B]

So that's the other thing is like a lot of brands get super excited. Like we got into Ralph's or we got into this Chain store. We got into this press then they don't realize what it takes to sell through.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

Like talk us through the actual real life process. Like especially for beverage brands, food brands. Like what you can get on the shelf at a big chain store.

[A]

Yep.

[B]

But you need to sell X percent per week or that's.

[A]

We've seen that a lot because a lot of companies, they spend all their time developing product and getting on the shelf and then nobody knows it. Good packaging is a really big one because people will walk through the aisles. That's one benefit of retail. But we've seen. It's funny, there's a very. It's an underutilized part of the market is using digital to drive into store. When you know people that are the right, you know, psychographic info. Right. Geographic info and they're within two miles of that store and you can actually compel them to go in. We've done this a lot. You can outpace a lot of their projections because you can juice it without them even knowing. Meaning this retailer, you get into Ralph's or whatever and now you're in these retailers and you drive some digital ads to get them in. Ralph's doesn't even know you're doing that. And all of a sudden your stuff's selling off the shelf way faster. We did this with a toy company, with Target and they sold out what they thought would be the three month holiday worth of it was again a toy company. They thought the whole holiday season was covered with their inventory and they sold out in a week. And so they thought they had 12 weeks worth of product and we sold it in a week and they had no idea why. So they just bought 10 times as much and went fuck it great and rolled out into all targets. And there's a balance there where you got to sell that too. But you also, you get that visibility. You get out there. It's a little bit of a self fulfilling prophecy. And then support it with the same type of ad strategy and it works. So yeah, I mean being on shelf in store, the strategy is slightly different than Internet where Internet you're driving for a direct conversion in store you're driving to people so that when they walk through the store they pick your stuff over something else or they see it and go wait, I recognize that and grab it again. Or as far as drive down to the store and pick it up, which you can do all sorts of different promotions to make happen. And then you have on site on premise, which we're not as involved in but there's a lot of great strategies with testing and having promotion on site.

[B]

So there's a founder listening to this right now and they've got two employees, themself and themself, but they're finally ready to hire someone. Why is it important to invest in the people?

[A]

Yeah, I always found it's important to remind yourself you're the most expensive employee. So if you can't afford to pay some once something's taking a lot of your time, if it doesn't make sense for you to pay someone else to do that, you probably shouldn't be doing it either. And you have to figure out a more efficient way to do it. It's a force factor to me to find ways to scale. Because if I can't afford to pay someone to do that, well, why the hell am I doing it then? I'm expensive. I'm the founder. And so, you know, my first hire was an assistant because it was just like, what are all the things that are taking my time that I can put onto someone that I can train them to do the like, you know, easy tasks that are taking a ton of time, but start there. And so it's. And then to me, hiring is all about finding what is the bottleneck and how who can I put in to alleviate that bottleneck. And the key is not hiring people that are going to take like a whole department over. Like I see this mistake with salespeople a lot where the founder is selling, doing partnerships, doing, you know, generating leads, closing deals and building partnerships. And then they go hire a salesperson expecting the same thing. It's like if they were the same, they could do the same thing. They'd be running your company like they're not going to do the same thing. And so understanding that, you know, as much as it's sometimes a negative from employees saying it, you do kind of need cogs in the wheel. And so finding what is that task or that thing that you need someone to take off your plate, that could be a full time job that you can afford to pay the right rate for. And again, if you can't, you need to figure out your business model better and that, and then continue to scale that way. What's the next thing that's the bottleneck? You know, if. Good example, when we talk about hiring a salesperson, is it that you don't have enough leads or is it that you don't have enough time to close all your deals? Because those are two very different things. And with closing all your deals, I've seen This with other people. If it's closing all your deals, work harder, stay up nights, work weekends, close your deals. That's crazy. Like stay up, keep up as much as you can and then maybe get someone junior to start training alongside you to whatever it is that's bogging you down, that's not allowing you because like it's a very rare company with two has so much deal flow that they can't handle it unless there's other things that are bogging you down. And so I always believe, you know, especially as a founder generally you're going to be outward facing. So anything you can that's not outward facing, you should start to offload.

[B]

Same founder is listening to Eric right now and he wants to know why he should invest into his personal brand.

[A]

Good question. To me, it's another marketing channel. It's the same question as like why would I want to do email marketing or why do I want to do social media marketing as an individual? And we bought a personal branding agency because we saw they were, they did mine and I just have always seen the value and went we should just offer this as another marketing channel where if you, an owner of a company can do a lot of things a company can. Owner of a company can write a book. Weird. If you release a book with just the company's name on it. An owner of a company can speak at a conference, can be on a podcast, can do all these things that are other wise not doable without someone that's the face. And so when you build a personal brand, it opens a lot of doors for you. And at this point, because I've invested in it, we've got our TV show on AE and Hulu with Cedric the Entertainer called and Anthony Anderson called Kings of Barbecue, best selling book the Hawk Method and all these things then open up stages. Yesterday I was speaking on stage at the Digiday conference with a room full of brands that want to get to know me. Today we're at this mortgage conference. And so it's all these different things open up for an individual that that's the company can't do that. And so I think of myself as a marketing channel for Hawk just as much as most founders can be a marketing channel for their business.

[B]

All right, so we talked about making money, we talked about investing money and investing into your brand. Let's talk about the charity side, about giving it away.

[A]

Yep.

[B]

Why do you think it's important for brands to incorporate philanthropy into their companies?

[A]

I think it's expected now. So I think the Days of Tom's Shoes. You know, buy one, give one. I think people expect it. So it's not necessarily a good marketing channel anymore. It helps with buyers remorse and helps with, like, I want to, like, really grabbing your super fans and people that love everything your brand's about and seeing that your values are aligned with them. Gen Z cares a lot about this more than any other generation. So it's, you know, if you're going for younger demo, etc. But honestly, it's. I think it's more about if you're fortunate enough to run a business that's successful in making money. I think it's an obligation to do well for your society and people around you in some way and give back just because, again, you're fortunate. Like we look at these stats, I think that we're living a world of social media where everyone thinks that they make, like everyone's making half a million dollars a year. And the average is a real. The average salary in the US now, I think, is 75 grand. And so if you're fortunate enough to be way over that, I think it's your obligation to find ways to help. And my view of charity has been we also have a platform. So instead of like writing a check and being silent and just. And we do that too, but like just giving someone a check, I try to leverage our horsepower. So we do a lot of pro bono work, a lot of free work, a lot of marketing support for nonprofits and charities, because I can add so much more value that way than just, yeah, here's 10 grand or 50 grand, that's fine. But like, I just, I can give someone, you know, half a million dollars worth of marketing services instead, right? And they're gonna do. And they're gonna go raise 5 million off that, you know, so it's. That's, that's where, like, we just did the campaign with Jane Goodall called Vote for Nature. We gave her a full marketing team for free, and she was on Colbert and she parted with Global Citizen on it. And we pushed that out for three months and helped her with the whole social strategy and email strategy and campaign around it messaging. And again, that's. I talk to my team all the time. Like, we're not curing cancer at Hawk Media, but hopefully one day we'll market the cure for cancer. Like, this is the place where that's good. And I'd say the other piece, because education is really our main focus when it comes to nonprofit work. And it's also about, like, I live in this society too. And I want to help society as a whole because there is a selfish aspect of that of like, yeah, if I can take care of other people, crime goes down, safety goes up, people are better. Like, it's just like the better the, the better we're all doing, the better we're all doing. And you know, the tide rises all ships. So if you're in a position to be able to give back, I think it's, it is self serving too, but it's also your obligation.

[B]

We have the world's largest toy drive coming up, so you might get a phone call.

[A]

Yeah, please.

[B]

We got six CDs lined up already.

[A]

Amazing.

[B]

We did 11 cities last year, which 15 day period, which I don't recommend. We're gonna break the record again. The Guinness Book so far again. We're gonna do Miami Heat, we're doing in Vegas, we're doing in la. We're gonna do it back at Hubble Studio again.

[A]

Oh, cool. Awesome.

[B]

And then Phoenix, Salt Lake City, maybe.

[A]

Boston, shout out to Vincent Hubble.

[B]

Oh yeah. And then New Jersey, we already have 650 people registered for that one. So wow. Excited for the toy drive this year. But it's the same thing. Six or seven cities and.

[A]

Yeah. And so why do you do that?

[B]

So this will be our 11th year and I don't ever really try to raise money. This time we actually want to raise money so people to go buy the toys in general. But our first time there was eight of us on the floor wrapping toys at Hubble Studio.

[A]

And what drove you to do that? Like, what was the motivation?

[B]

I like charities where you can see, feel and touch it. Where I can get people to actually come there in person. And they can give the toy to a child.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Or someone can, they can't normally donate to something. Can go buy a $3 toy. If they don't have to buy $50 toy, go buy a $3 toy and let them get through the experience. And if you can't even afford the $3, no problem. Come here and help us wrap toys.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

You can afford to sit on the floor with us and wrap toys.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

From eight volunteers to 21 to now there's hundreds of volunteers and now we do in all these different cities. And so to me it's just, I want to build charities that people can replicate. You don't need to donate to my toy drive. You do a toy drive, you can do it in Wisconsin, Alabama, Arkansas, like you don't need me to be there. You can do a toy Drive. Same thing with Thanksgiving food. Drive back to school day. We have a campaign called two years too long to give away clothes if it's in your closet for more than two years. Hundred tipping.

[A]

We do that too. Just ourselves and that we don't. Yeah.

[B]

100 tipping dinners. Now, there's been thousands and thousands of those. Like, I make charities that people replicate. That's my goal. I don't.

[A]

Because then you have a bigger impact.

[B]

It's scalable, and it becomes way bigger than me. They have no idea that I started tipping dinner. They have no idea. But that's what's cool.

[A]

You're not doing it for ego, which I think is important. You're doing it because you want to make the world a better place. And what's gonna have the largest impact?

[B]

If I do it for ego, it's capped at me. Meaning it can only get as big as me.

[A]

Yep.

[B]

If I do it without my name on it, it becomes a global thing people can do. Tipping dinners and toy drives all over the world.

[A]

Yep.

[B]

Last question.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

I asked this question every single time.

[A]

Great.

[B]

Almost every time. And I've never gotten the same answer. One day, 100 years from now, maybe longer, with modern technology, it's time for Eric to finally pass away. And you build up Hawk media. Instead of 21 companies, you've got 210 companies. Multi billion dollar company.

[A]

That's halfway the nine to next year. But. Yeah.

[B]

What percentage do you leave to your children?

[A]

Oh, interesting. You know, and because I've been through this, my dad passed and was a very successful guy and got siblings, and transparently, he left everything to us and my stepmom in a very even equal way. And I know there's a lot of pushback on this, but I'm kind of of the same boat. I've had. I had this conversation with a good friend, you know, John Hall. I think you. Okay, maybe I think you've run into each other before. Really talented entrepreneur. And we were. He was talking. We were talking about this. I won't say what he said in Blow him Up, but what I was saying is I think the day I die will probably be the richest day of my life. Because I love the game so much that the scoreboard and the building is what I love. So I don't think I'll ever retire. I think I'll keep building, and that's part of it. I think, again, being charitable along the way, I probably will leave everything to my children, other than maybe some side gifts and things like that. With the hope that I've raised them well, that they continue to take care of the world. Because my issue that I've seen, I've been on the board of a quite a few non profits. The money's not managed very well. I'd rather manage the money and keep giving than hand it to them. And so we'll see if that dynamic change changes. But both my wife and I are pretty much on the same page that what's mine is my kids eventually and hopefully I raise them to do their own thing. And this is a bonus which is how I was raised. But yeah, that's, that's my view of it.

[B]

Very cool. Where can people find you across social media or find Hawk Media if they're ready to go with you guys?

[A]

Yeah. Hawkmedia.com H-A-W-K-E-Media.com and then I'm at or/erickuberman on any social. Pretty easy to find.

[B]

Very cool. All right, guys, this is one of those episodes again. If you have people that have brands or entrepreneurs or think about starting a brand, product or service, this is the type of episode you should forward to them. Check out Eric's content on social media. He's obviously doing speeches, really good content, teaching about this stuff in a very free and open format because he and I are very blunt when it comes to marketing execution. And we want people to do better out there because it's better for our whole society if you guys do better build your businesses. There's also an entrepreneurial or, sorry, charitable element to that. If you go build companies and hire a bunch of employees, it's almost like a form of charity to me. That's why I invest in so many companies. And similar with Eric, he's invested in over 100 companies now in a similar format. And so we want you guys to be out there moving and shaking. As you guys know, the whole concept of Money Mondays is to have very blunt discussions with your friends, family, followers about money. We all grew up thinking it's rude to talk about money. I think it's insane. I think that's why we have massive debt. And so many people don't know how to balance a checkbook. They don't know how to spell irs. They don't know what to do for their taxes or FICO scores or anything like those because we just didn't talk about it. And so this podcast and this platform is for you guys to have these really straightforward discussions. So if you can share, comment, like, etc. You notice we've been running this ad free for over a year and a half. Keeping us up there in the top 10 in the podcast category is because of you guys. So every time you like comment, share, etc, it helps us. Check out Eric Huberman across social media. Check out Hawk Media and we will see you guys next week on TheMoneyMondays. Combat.