The Money with Katie Show

Episode: Curtain Call: All Stars Return to Talk Financial Independence, Fear, and Growth

Date: December 31, 2025
Host: Katie Gatti Tassin
Podcast: The Money with Katie Show from Morning Brew

Overview

This episode marks a significant moment — a “curtain call” — for the current iteration of The Money with Katie Show. Host Katie Gatti Tassin brings back some of the show's favorite guests (her "All Stars") for reflective, in-depth mini-interviews covering: financial independence, changing economic tides, personal money lessons, emotional growth, and the future of class and capitalism. Katie also hints at her next moves and the transition for the show and her work in 2026. The tone is celebratory, candid, and marked by both gratitude and insight.

Guests include:

• Brad Barrett (ChooseFI host)
• Katherine Edwards (economist and podcast host)
• Ramit Sethi (author of "I Will Teach You To Be Rich")
• Megan Day (Jacobin editor)
• Grace Blakeley (author of "Vulture Capitalism")

Main Themes

• Shifting attitudes toward money and class post-2020s
• Realistic (vs. idealistic or competitive) perspectives on financial independence
• Reflections on personal and collective economic anxieties
• The effect of current economic trends on the millennial “middle class”
• Changes in discourse culture — from “finance bro” to richer, more inclusive dialogues
• Growth, ending cycles, and new beginnings: both personally and societally

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Show Transition, Gratitude & Behind-the-Scenes (00:44–07:20)

• Katie marks the end of this version of The Money with Katie Show, expressing gratitude for listeners, acknowledging her growth, and foreshadowing a pivot to independent writing and publishing in 2026 through her newsletter.
• Notable quote:

  “Thank you for tuning in week after week. Thank you for being along for the ride as this show has evolved over the years and as I have evolved over the years. Thank you for arguing with me in good faith and expanding my worldview.” (06:21)

• She explains the episode as a “fitting finale,” and frames it as a way to “pull back the curtain” and check in with foundational guests about where the world — and their thinking — is headed.

2. Brad Barrett: The Joy of Renting, True FI Living, and Tesla Skepticism

(08:29–23:38)

Renting vs. Owning

• Brad describes his surprising transformation from long-term homeowner to committed renter, calling it “the greatest thing ever”:

  “I am a dyed in the wool renting lover at this point…my life doesn’t cost that much. I’ve cut all the stress. So much stress in your life, whether you know it or not, comes from owning your home.” (09:21)

• He emphasizes reduced mental load and higher flexibility, especially as his children become more independent.
• Katie and Brad agree that home ownership is a “lifestyle play” more than a financial imperative, especially given family needs for stability.

Living the FI Life

• Brad shares how the Financial Independence (FI) life turned from theory to realized freedom.

  “FI works. It just simply works. And it’s better than I could have even imagined.” (09:52)

• He now values health and time for personal enrichment rather than overworking:

  “Nobody really notices if I’m working 50 hours a week or four hours. ... All those years I was working 40, 50, 60 hours... as far as anyone was concerned, it was wasted. And I was crushing myself.” (16:16)

Tesla, Investing Hype, and Delusion

• Brad (with relish) rails against hype-driven stocks like Tesla and warns against following celebrity visionaries (“delusion works, lying works…go start an electric car company, I guess!” 23:16).
• Fun moment:

  “They took the VR goggles off and the robot fell backwards.” (21:00)

3. Katherine Edwards: Letting Go of Financial Perfection, the Economy’s Slows, and Poverty Measurement

(24:37–55:39)

Surviving and Passing, Not Winning

• Amid major family/life and financial changes, Katherine’s biggest money lesson is acceptance:

  “Some tests you just pass.” (28:09)

  • She observes that personal finance culture is too competitive and bro-y; “Living’s the best win, and I live.”
• Katie: “Hell yeah. You did it. You freaking did it.” (28:21)

Economic Diagnosis: Slowly Slowing (Not Just 'Unprecedented!')

• “The economy is slowly slowing. ... We’re all heading towards a red light, but we’re not all moving at the exact same speed.” (29:10)
• Katherine notes we’re living in a “weak economy” state — not “recession,” but not thriving. The disconnect between personal experience and macro data stems from poverty of language and the inadequacies of current measurement.

“We don’t need to fix this year's economy, we need to fix this century's economy.” (36:50)

• Structural deficits in the US (housing, child care, social safety nets) are policy failures, not cyclical economic weaknesses.
• Discussion of the viral “Poverty is $140,000” piece — breakdown of why middle-class people feel poor, and the historical flaws of poverty measurement.
  • Notable quote:

    “Columbusing: where someone discovers there’s poverty in America...” (41:06)

• She warns it's not just about new awareness — the solutions require addressing holes in program design and delivery as well as material needs.

4. Ramit Sethi: Being Honest with Ourselves and Spouses about Money

(55:40–70:49)

The Qualitative Shift: What Champions (and the Financially Successful) Do Differently

• Ramit shares an academic paper about Olympic swimmers: winners train and think differently, not just harder.

  “Swimmers who are champions don’t just swim more hours. They are qualitatively different.” (57:05)

• Draws parallel to money:

  “People who are great with money do not just track 50 more categories. ... They need to qualitatively change the way they look at money.” (58:24)

Personal Honesty vs. Delusion

• Ramit wishes people would admit “they actually pretty much like to spend money on eating out and their house,” not just “travel” or relationships:

  “When we look at what people actually spend their money on, it’s DoorDash and Little Caesar’s pizza.” (61:01)

• The “money dial” (the thing you love to spend on) should be acknowledged, not rationalized or aspirational.

Money in Relationships

• Honesty, structure, and communication are vital:

  “One surprising thing I learned ... is how difficult it was to integrate two different worldviews on money. ... Mine saw money as growth; she saw it as safety.” (64:23)

• He shares their regular “money meetings” (weekly pulse, six-month, and annual “rich life review”) and describes the joy of seeing a spouse grow as an entrepreneur:

  “It was so magical... One of the best things in life is to see your loved ones going through these experiences and experiencing it for them for the first time.” (69:55)

5. Megan Day: Don't Be a Discourse Goblin—The Limits of Online Outrage

(71:43–90:32)

Rejecting Shitposting, Embracing Real Connection

• Megan reflects on her evolving attitude toward “discourse goblins” — people hyper-fixated on online fighting and dunking.

  “I don’t think that you should be a discourse goblin. ... it loses track of what’s actually likable about people, and it’s all in service of a good cause, but you never talk about the cause or how to achieve it.” (71:54)

• Points to Zoran Mandani’s election and approach as an example — actually connecting with people, not just deploying “internet left” snark.
• Katie offers a reference to the book "Rejection," and both discuss the illusion of online activism.

From Anti-Civility to the New Baby—Positive Community Energy

• They agree leftist (and broader) online culture leaned heavily into tribalistic, negative, or nihilist energy after Trump:

  “The only thing worse than artificial niceness, while nothing changes, is indiscriminate meanness while nothing changes.” (75:00)

• Megan supports humor, critique, and honest discourse, but argues organized bloodsport and dunking are ultimately self-defeating for organizing real change, and drive "normies" away.

• Low social trust is noted as a measurable and concerning trend.

• Megan reads an evocative Thomas Merton passage:

  “If you conform to the right group, you will be blamed in a way that gives you great pleasure because the blame will come from an out group by which to be blamed is praise. ... You are the embodiment of their own complacency and sin.” (89:14)

• Final wisdom:

  “Don’t be a bitchy monk.” (90:32)

6. Grace Blakeley: Breaking the Spell of Competitive Individualism & Analyzing Debt-Fueled Tech Bubbles

(91:28–112:11)

Capitalism Is Oligarchy, and We Need Democratic Alternatives

• Grace describes her new book’s genesis: why do people know the system is broken yet feel powerless?

  “The way that we’ve been encouraged to believe that we’re these isolated, atomized individuals, bumping up against one another in competitive free markets ... has meant we’ve forgotten how to cooperate, we’ve forgotten how to work together.” (93:45)

• She points to Marx, Chantal Mouffe, and others on the transformation of class consciousness and building new coalitions.

What’s Keeping Her Up at Night

• She talks about Karen Hao’s “Empire of AI” and Sven Beckert’s “Capitalism: A Global History” — both are revealing about how politics and economics are inseparable and today’s AI bubble is about the entwining of state, corporate, and financial interests.

The AI Bubble and Systemic Risk

• Grace warns of a coming crash involving private credit and tech underpinned by immense debt — with everyday people’s pensions increasingly entwined:

  “When you add debt to a financial bubble, things get difficult.” (102:11)

  • Private credit markets (not banks) are now funding much of the infrastructure, exposing pensions and everyday investors to systemic risk.
  • Firms are securitizing data center assets (“what if we did mortgage-backed securities again but for AI?” 107:24)
• Uncertainty looms about what happens during an unwind, but history shows “the wealthy will do a lot better to organize, to protect themselves in that context. ... It’s retail investors who will be the most screwed.” (110:11)
• Notably, she ends on a slightly hopeful note:

  “Our forthcoming global financial meltdown is a radicalizing opportunity for individualism to break down once and for all.” (111:19)

  • The existential lack of control is itself fuel for collective action, if properly marshaled.

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• Katie (on the show’s ethos):

  “I never want to produce something just for the sake of producing it. I only want to make things that I feel like I need to make.” (07:02)

• Brad Barrett (on FI):

  “It’s better than I could have even imagined. ... My life doesn’t cost that much. ... So much stress in your life comes from owning your home.” (09:21)

• Katherine Edwards (personal finance):

  “Some tests you just pass. ... Living’s the best win, and I live.” (28:10/28:21)

• Ramit Sethi (spending):

  “I wish people would admit that they actually pretty much like to spend money on eating out and their house. ... The first step to living a rich life is being honest with yourself.” (61:01)

• Megan Day (online politics):

  “It’s possible the only thing worse than artificial niceness while nothing changes is indiscriminate meanness while nothing changes.” (75:00)

• Grace Blakeley (on the new book):

  “It feels so alien to me. ... Everyone realizes there’s a problem, but we all feel stuck and unable to respond. ... We’ve forgotten how to work together.” (91:36–93:45)

• Grace (AI bubble):

  "When you add debt to a financial bubble, things get difficult... everyone's pensions are exposed." (104:11)

Timestamps for Key Segments

• 00:44 — Katie’s show introduction and announcement of transitions
• 08:29 — Brad Barrett on renting and living FI
• 13:02 — Homeownership and family “lifestyle play”
• 16:16 — Mindset shift, work-life balance, and podcast longevity
• 19:32 — Petty gripes: Tesla and tech stock “delusion”
• 24:37 — Katherine Edwards: Money lessons and surviving a whirlwind financial year
• 29:10 — Economic slowdown explained
• 36:50 — Policy failures, measuring poverty, the “$140k poverty” debate
• 47:28 — The benefits “cliff” and who gets help
• 55:40 — Ramit Sethi: The “qualitative difference” with money and relationships
• 61:01 — Spending honesty, “money dials,” and how values show up
• 64:23 — Integrating different money philosophies in marriage
• 71:43 — Megan Day: Rejecting online meanness, championing optimism and real-world connection
• 75:00 — On the downside of meanness replacing fake niceness
• 89:14 — The Thomas Merton "bitchy monk" passage
• 91:28 — Grace Blakeley: New book, anti-individualism, and coalition-building
• 97:00 — What Grace has been reading (AI and global capitalism)
• 101:43 — Economic outlook: stock/debt bubbles and fragility
• 110:11 — Structural risk, pensions, and the possibility of radicalization

Final Takeaways

• Self-awareness, candidness, and community are recurring motifs: whether it’s honestly assessing your spending, letting go of competitive finance culture, or creating coalitions for broader change, this episode is a call to reject the isolating scripts of late capitalism.
• Economic change is coming — both macro and micro; adapting means learning to “pass the test” rather than ace it, embracing collaboration over competition, and preparing for systemic shocks with a mindset toward collective action.
• The curtain falls here for this era of The Money with Katie Show, but the conversations — practical, critical, and rich in both humor and seriousness — will continue elsewhere.

For more:

• Follow Katie’s upcoming writing via her newsletter (link in show notes).
• Revisit the Tressie McMillan Cottom episode for the most popular interview in show history.

This summary omits ads and non-content banter but preserves the original voices, tone, and major arguments throughout the episode.