Are Trump’s sanctions on Russia’s oil companies enough to send a message?

Summary

---

Podcast Summary: The Monocle Daily

Episode: Are Trump’s sanctions on Russia’s oil companies enough to send a message?
Date: October 23, 2025
Host: Andrew Muller
Guests: Isabel Hilton (China Dialogue, King’s College London), Evdoxia Lymperi (UK correspondent, Hellenic Broadcasting Corporation)

---

Main Theme Overview

This episode grapples with the impact and reach of newly announced U.S. sanctions by President Trump on Russia’s two largest oil companies, Lukoil and Rosneft, focusing on their ripple effects in global markets, diplomatic relations, and energy politics. Additional conversations cover U.S. policy consistency, China’s soft-power maneuvers toward Taiwan, Greece’s debate over protest bans at key public spaces, and the blunders of the Pittsburgh Walk of Fame.

---

Key Discussion Points and Insights

---

1. US Sanctions on Russian Oil Firms: Will They Work?

[04:00 – 11:16]

• Details of the Sanctions:
  The U.S. has imposed fresh sanctions on Russia’s two major oil firms (Lukoil and Rosneft). This has triggered responses from China and India, Russia’s biggest customers, who are now suspending or cutting back purchases to avoid secondary sanctions.

  • Isabel Hilton:
    “It’s definitely not nothing. … It shows the power of secondary sanctions. … Everyone is sort of looking to Washington to see how serious they are about this and whether they will pursue countries that do continue to deal with Russia.” (04:52)
  • Impact in Asia:
    Chinese and Indian refiners are deep in evaluation mode, pausing imports to avoid financial consequences.

• Global Implications:
  The sanctions are prompting uncertainty among Russia’s traditional buyers and could drastically squeeze Moscow’s revenues if the suspensions hold. This adds volatility to global oil prices.

  • Evdoxia Lymperi:
    “If China and India pull back, Russia’s revenues are squeezed and the volatility could drive global oil prices higher. So it’s a multi-level thread.” (07:24)

• Trump’s Inconsistency:
  The guests discuss a lack of coherence in U.S. policy under Trump, creating confusion for allies and for Ukraine’s security.

  • “Without a clear line from Washington, allies don’t know what strategy to trust.” (07:09)

• Effects for Ukraine:
  There’s consensus that Ukraine benefits from today’s development—at least temporarily—but ongoing U.S. unpredictability clouds the longer-term outlook.

  • “Let’s stay here just for today. It is better for Zelensky, I think.” (10:59)

---

2. Trump’s Approach to Putin and Ukraine

[07:52 – 11:16]

• Attitude Shifts:
  Trump’s tone regarding Putin appears to be hardening, but guests interpret this as possibly superficial.

  • Notable Quote (Isabel Hilton):
    “I think someone may have whispered in Trump’s ear that people think he’s being played and that’s probably bad for his dignity.” (08:18)
  • She adds skepticism: “He wants a quick kind of settlement so he can add it to his Nobel Peace Prize application, which is getting quite long now.” (09:32)

• Doubts About True Policy Change:
  They doubt Trump will “go full bore kind of anti-Russia,” but will do just enough to bring about a deal (potentially a bad one) for Ukraine.

---

3. China’s “Hearts and Minds” Campaign with Taiwan

[11:16 – 18:00]

• Soft Power Tactics:
  China reportedly organizes religious-themed tours for Taiwanese citizens, aiming to win them over through positive exposure to the mainland.

  • Isabel Hilton:
    “We’re talking folk gods here … there are local gods that still mean a lot to people on Taiwan … so yes, I can well imagine that China decided to put on a very friendly face.” (12:01)
    • Hilton highlights China’s state control: “The Chinese Communist Party takes a tremendous interest in religion—so much so that it has an entire religious bureau … and if you’re not under the control … you’re regarded as heretical.” (13:13)

• Effectiveness Questioned:
  Both guests question whether free trips change hearts or just offer a holiday, given strong national identity in Taiwan and deep distrust after China broke the “one country, two systems” promise in Hong Kong.

  • Evdoxia Lymperi:
    “Religion wins hearts, right? … But the national feeling … you can’t put up with this, I don’t think.” (13:48)

• Taiwan’s Status Quo & US Reliability:
  The most popular idea in Taiwan is to maintain the current status—conditional on U.S. protection.

  • “That status quo is conditional, isn’t it, on the idea that the United States is standing behind them.” (18:00, Andrew Muller)
  • Evdoxia Lymperi:
    “If Trump administration doesn’t keep supporting Taiwan, then Taiwan can be in real trouble.” (18:42)

• Potential for Blockade:

  • Isabel Hilton:
    “My personal view of the most likely strategy is a blockade rather than invasion. But Taiwan only has something like 10 days of gas supply … so if it’s not coming in by sea, soon the lights go out.” (19:46)

---

4. Greece Weighs Protest Ban at Symbolic Sites

[20:15 – 25:39]

• Context:
  The Greek government proposes banning protests at the Tomb of the Unknown Soldier—Athens’ major symbolic and geographic center.

  • Evdoxia Lymperi:
    “It’s the Trafalgar Square and Downing Street together and Parliament, it’s all together, everything.” (21:11)

  • This site has deep resonance for public expressions of grief and protest, like those following the Tempe train crash tragedy.

• Public Backlash & Principles:
  Opposition parties and the public oppose the ban, framing it as unconstitutional and an affront to expression.

  • “It raises the wider question: how do democracies protect symbolic places while still safeguarding protest rights?” (23:08)

• Broader Democratic Issues:

  • Isabel Hilton:
    “There’s a lack of tolerance of expression building in Western democracies … it’s better to have a valve, let people express their emotions and let it happen.” (24:48)

---

5. Pittsburgh Walk of Fame’s Spelling Blunder & Name Mishaps

[25:39 – 30:27]

• The Gaffe:
  Michael Keaton’s name is famously misspelled on his new Walk of Fame plaque.

  • Andrew Muller:
    “Keaton, one of the few in a position to attend in person, was bemused…they had misspelled Michael, transposing the A and the E.” (26:39)

• Name Mangling Anecdotes:
  The panel exchanges stories of their own names being mispronounced or mistyped in various public settings, relaying these stories with humor and a sense of shared experience.

  • Evdoxia Lymperi:
    “Especially when I go to a hospital for a test and this poor nurse comes out … says something like, ev, Ev … actually, nowadays I don’t help. I’m just amusing myself.” (26:48)

  • Isabel Hilton:
    “My favourite of that kind was actually in a name badge … it came out as international advisory ‘Bard’, which is amazing … so I now sing my advice like Cacophonyx.” (28:23)

---

6. Letter from Vienna: The History of Audio Letters

[30:45 – 35:07]

• Segment Focus:
  In a pre-internet era, families kept in touch via recorded audio messages on wax cylinders, tapes, and discs—spanning migration and long-distance separation.

  • These recorded messages provided comfort and connection despite immense physical distance.

• Notable Quote (Eva Capella Halema, historian):
  “I get very involved with it emotionally … why does it touch me so much? … I feel that I’m in the room somewhere with a person I don’t know.” (34:07)

---

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Trump’s Policy Approach:
  “He wants a quick kind of settlement so he can add it to his Nobel Peace Prize application, which is getting quite long now.” (Isabel Hilton, 09:32)

• On Chinese 'Religious’ Soft Diplomacy:
  “If you don’t have a party card as a reincarnate lama, you’re a fake reincarnate. So it’s very important that the Politburo should exercise their religious capacity to identify the right reincarnation!” (Isabel Hilton, 13:13)

• On Western Democracies and Protest:
  “There’s a kind of … lack of tolerance of expression building in Western democracies, which I think is, you know, it’s better to have a valve, let people express their emotions and let it happen.” (Isabel Hilton, 24:48)

• On Name Misspellings:
  “My favourite … was a name badge … it came out as international advisory Bard, which is amazing … so I now sing my advice like Cacophonyx.” (Isabel Hilton, 28:23)

---

Timed Breakdown of Significant Segments

• [04:00 – 11:16] Sanctions on Russia’s oil companies & international reaction
• [11:16 – 18:00] China’s soft-power campaign toward Taiwan & political realities
• [18:00 – 20:15] Taiwan’s security and reliance on U.S. support
• [20:15 – 25:39] Greece’s protest ban proposal & wider debate on protest rights
• [25:39 – 30:27] Pittsburgh Walk of Fame mishap & panel’s name anecdotes
• [30:45 – 35:07] Letter from Vienna: The emotional resonance of historic audio messages

---

Tone and Atmosphere

The episode combined sharp political analysis with light, often humorous panel chemistry. Isabel Hilton’s wit and Evdoxia Lymperi’s storytelling brought warmth and insight, while Andrew Muller steered the conversation with a trademark blend of curiosity and dry humor.

---

This episode is ideal for listeners seeking nuanced analysis of U.S.-Russia-China geopolitics, reflections on the resilience of democracy, and enjoyable panel banter.

Transcript

[A]

You're listening to the Monocle Daily, first broadcast on 23 October 2025 on Monocle Radio.

[B]

Could the latest US sanctions cost Russia two of its biggest oil customers? Should some public spaces be protected from public protests? And Pittsburgh's new Walk of Fame makes an even bigger mistake than failing to honour Doc Ellis. If you know, you know. I'm Andrew Muller. The Monocle Daily starts. Hello, and welcome to the Monocle Daily. Coming to you from our studios here at Midori House in London. I'm Andrew Muller. My guests Isabel Hilton and Evdoxia Lemperi will discuss today's big stories and our weekly letter from reaches us from Vienna. Stay tuned. All that and more coming up right here on the Monocle Daily. This is the Monocle Daily. I'm Andrew Muller and I'm joined today by Isabel Hilton, founder of China Dialogue and visiting professor at King's College London's Lao Institute, and Evdoxia Limperi, UK correspondent for ert, the Hellenic Broadcasting Corporation. Hello to you both. Hello, Isabel. First of all, you have been all over the shop recently.

[A]

Some would say I usually am.

[B]

Well, indeed.

[A]

I think you mean traveling physically as well as metaphysically.

[B]

Where was the most exciting of the places you have visited?

[A]

I think Vienna, actually.

[B]

Vienna's nice.

[A]

I really like Vienna and it was a really interesting meeting about strategic minerals and rare earths and all those things which brought together quite a fantastic bunch of people, including mining people, which you don't normally get in the same room as policy people. So I had a really interesting time. I also quite enjoyed Montreal, which was.

[B]

Montreal's all right as well. Do you have a particular Vienna recommendation for people who are going there for reasons other than discussing rare earths?

[A]

Sadly, I didn't really have time to enjoy the city other than that. But I'm sure there are wonderful things to do in Vienna. It's a very fine city and just walking around it is pretty wonderful.

[B]

Evdoksa, you have recently been reported. Well, you. This is what you do all day. You report from the United Kingdom for listeners, viewers, readers in Greece. But a story which I suspect may have been a bigger deal in Greece than it was here, pertaining to one particular item in the collection of the British Museum.

[C]

It was big in both countries, but for different reasons. Very, very different reasons. Here was all about the glam and glitter of the famous pink ball, the first attempt from British Museum to create a Met Gala equivalent lavish event. But in Greece, it was. It became very famous. It became all over the news. It went all over the News it made headlines for three, four days in a row because they, they set up their D in the gallery that hosts the Parthenon sculptures. And so the Parthenon sculptures became like a decoration behind the people who were eating and drinking and listening to music.

[B]

And this, this was seen in Greece as somewhat tactless insult.

[C]

As an insult, yeah. Because of the symbolism. It's not just like an artifact, it's part of the symbol, the national symbol of Greec, part of the Acropolis. So it's not just like, I mean, British Museum is holding, I think, over 25,000 Greek artifacts. Greece doesn't want any of these apart from the pieces that missing from the Parthenon sculpture. So it is significant. Yeah.

[B]

Well, we will start in Moscow where it is reasonably likely that an emergency meeting has been convened around President Vladimir Putin's weird long table. This follows new US sanctions against Russia's two biggest oil companies, Lukoil and Rosneft, which is quite a thing in itself, but appears as of this broadcast to be becoming a bigger thing with the news that for fear of secondary sanctions, China's state oil firms have suspended purchases from the two Russian firms and refiners in India have announced significant cuts of imports of Russian crude. I mean, Isabelle, first of all, as the table's designated China watcher, how big a whoop is this that this is not a complete cessation as yet of Chinese purchase? They're saying we will suspend purchases, I think, while we figure out what is actually going on here. But this is not nothing, is it?

[A]

It's definitely not nothing. And I think it shows the power of secondary sanctions. Because the thing that has restrained China in certain respects from full blown support of Russia in Ukraine has been it didn't want its banks to get sanctioned, for example, it didn't want to get locked out of the system. So I think that at the moment everyone is sort of looking to Washington to see how serious they are about this and whether they will pursue countries that do continue to deal with Russia. I have to say that if they do, the European Union might be tiny bit nervous because European Union has been buying oil that goes to Russia for refining and then buying it from India, sorry, Russian oil that goes to India and then buying it from India. So, you know, if in. And there was also an announcement from India. So there's a sort of sudden stop to two quite substantial markets which if that holds, will have a big effect on Russia.

[B]

Evdoksi, you get the fun task of telling us what on earth Donald Trump is thinking as of this moment, I mean, has he just changed his mind again?

[C]

It looks like that, yeah. What stands out generally from whatever Trump is doing all this time he's president is the lack of consistency in his politics and policies. One moment the Trump administration signals it might arm Ukraine with Tomahawk, and the next it's backtracking and now it's sanctioning major Russian oil companies. The sanctions sound tough, okay, but in practice, the US doesn't trade much with these particular companies, does it? And it gives also four week grace. So it allows for this period gives foreign buyers the opportunity to stockpile with oil, Russian oil. So Europe sees this gesture as pro Ukraine, but the real frustration is the messaging. Without a clear line from Washington, allies don't know what strategy to trust. For Ukraine, this mixed messaging makes it even harder to rely on Washington's long term support and commitment. At the same time, the sanctions are already creating ripple effects abroad. Reuters is reporting that China state oil measures have suspended, as you said, seaborne Russian oil purchases in response. So that's significant. Yes, because it shows the pressure is reaching, is reaching Moscow's big customers, not just the oil companies, but also underlines the stakes. If China and India pull back, Russia's revenues are squeezed and the volatility could drive global oil prices higher. So it's a multi level thread, as I say, that Washington consistency plays with Isabel.

[B]

President Trump has been vastly more patient with President Vladimir Putin than he has been with anybody or anything else. But is it possible that we are seeing that patience now actually beginning to terminally ebb? Trump quoted within the last 24 hours as saying, every time I speak to Vladimir, we have conversations and then they don't go anywhere. I mean, we've all been there.

[A]

Yes, I find the same with Vladimir. But I think someone may have whispered in Trump's ear that people think he's being played and that's probably bad for his dignity.

[B]

Trump would be literally the last person.

[A]

On earth to know that. Yes. And, well, I mean, he's been slow to appreciate because he does seem to think that Zelenskyy started the war. So, you know, you have to allow him time to adjust. But I'm not totally convinced that he's going to go full bore kind of anti Russia. He's going to do enough to get Moscow to do a bad deal for Ukraine. I mean, the other slightly sinister part of his observations was we want the two of them, we want Putin to be reasonable and reach a deal. Oh, we also want Zelensky to be reasonable. It takes two to tango. Well, yeah, hang on. But Russia has what is reasonable. Russia has occupied substantial parts of Ukraine, including, including a lot of very valuable real estate in terms of resources, in terms of access to the Black Sea. There's a lot of damage. And I don't think that it would be particularly healthy for Ukraine to accept the front line as it is, as a status quo. And I think that I couldn't really count on Trump to drive a decent deal for Ukraine. I think he wants it. He wants a quick kind of settlement so he can add it to his Nobel Peace Prize application, which is getting quite long now. But he wouldn't really want anything serious to happen.

[B]

I mean, all that said Evo and all those caveats acknowledged. Can, can we at least say that today at least may have been a good day for Ukraine?

[C]

Yes. If we put everything on a scale, I would say yes, today it sounds like Ukraine is a little bit better than yesterday, for example. But again, this inconsistency. You can never rely on what tomorrow will bring with Trump administration. He has changed his policies and one day he claps Putin and, you know, like, he's the hero of the day. And next day he yells on a leader, on a Ukrainian leader. We all saw those scenes. And next day he takes all the earth wealth of Ukraine, he claims them. And the next day he says, give back whatever they have taken to Zelensky. And now he's. I mean, it's mixed up. It's so chaotic. No, today's better. Let's stay here just for today. It is better for Zelensky, I think.

[B]

Well, to China, which may be wondering if there are better means of enticing Taiwan back to the motherland than harassing, bullying, and making thinly veiled threats of invasion. The Taiwanese, rather civil society outfit IORG reports that the People's Republic has launched a hearts and minds campaign in the direction of Taiwan's more pious last year, taking more than 10,000 of them on religiously oriented tours of China, apparently with a view to them speaking well of the mainland upon return. If true, it appears a counterintuitive proposition. The Chinese Communist Party not previously being known for any enthusiasm for the metaphysical. Isabelle, does. Does this sound like something that the Chinese Communist Party would do?

[A]

Oh, I, I think it rather does. I mean, we, we're, we're talking, we're talking folk. Folk gods here. F O L K, not fake. So Fujian, the province which faces Taiwan, you know, it's, it's essentially a kind of. And there are you know, the goddess of the sea. There are other kind of local gods that still mean a lot to people on Taiwan and they've been cut off from the site. So, yes, I can well imagine that China decided to put on a very friendly face. And actually, you know, of course, the Chinese constitution guarantees freedom of religion in China, so I'm surprised that you should suggest that it's not wholeheartedly implemented. And the Chinese Communist Party takes a tremendous interest in religion, much so that it has an entire religious bureau which makes sure that religions run along nicely. And if you're not under the control of the Religious Affairs Bureau, you're regarded as heretical, as decided by the Politburo, I suspect. And they particularly take an interest in the correct identification of reincarnate lamas in Tibetan Buddhism. And if you don't, you wouldn't want.

[B]

To mess around with something like that.

[A]

Well, you wouldn't. And actually, if you don't have a party card as a reincarnate llama, you're a fake reincarnate. So it's very important that the Politburo should exercise their religious capacity to identify the right reincarnation.

[B]

Well, obviously. Evdoxia, does this sound, though, to you like something that would work? Would the people who go on one of these trips go back to Taiwan and tell their friends and relatives, you know what, China's actually not so bad? Or are these people just thinking, china wants to give me a free holiday, I'll take it both.

[C]

I think it depends on the people. It depends how they see it, how they experience it. But religion is a soft diplomacy for every country, and for many years before, and now as well today, King Charles is praying with.

[B]

Indeed.

[C]

So if this is not soft diplomacy, what is? I mean, quite significant and symbolic? I wouldn't say that. I mean, there is the. Religion wins hearts, right? And this is how China now wants to attract people, not only with threats, but also with offering things and sentiments and religion feelings. Maybe they will succeed in some. But on the other hand, the national feeling of the people, when they are members of a state, they are members of a country, you can't put up with this, I don't think. I mean, I haven't been to Taiwan, to be honest, neither to China. So I don't know how people follow their religion exactly there, how close they are to their religion. I mean, in Greece, 80% of the population declares Greek Orthodox. That's massive. It's very big percentage. So I can't really tell how effective China will be with this policy.

[A]

I think it's largely about pilgrimage sites which in any religion people would like to visit without actually buying into the whole state control thing.

[B]

But just as a more broad thought, Isabel, can China really expect to make any headway in Taiwan with any kind of hearts and minds campaign? I looked at the polling on this. Support for reunification in Taiwan is somewhere well south of and has been for about 30 years. It now barely clears actual 1%. And I think in any population on earth you can find 1% of people in favor of pretty much any nonsense you can possibly think of. I mean, it is a really fringe idea in Taiwan, the idea that Taiwan should rejoin China. So is that something China could ever hope to chip meaningfully away at?

[A]

We shall see. I mean, whether people would respond positively to the idea of reunification necessarily tell you about their day to day experience of China. There are still people who commute to Fujian and work and go back to the closer islands, the Matsu and Kinmen Islands. And Taiwan is an archipelago. Not everybody feels strongly in favor of Taipei. You know, the usual fragmentation can be observed. But I think what did serious damage to the idea of peaceful unification and the notion of one country, two systems, which is what China was proposing, was what happened in Hong Kong, because that was one country, two systems, until China decided it wasn't. And there was an international treaty with the United Kingdom to that effect, which was violated when they imposed the National Security Law. So a lot of people left Hong Kong and went to Taiwan and Taiwanese took it very seriously that you couldn't really trust China to do a soft takeover and keep its words. On the other hand, in Taiwan, you know, the idea that they can realistically resist an invasion is pretty, you know, the odds are not great. And unless the United States remains committed to helping Taiwan defend itself, as the formulation goes, then it's going to look a little bleak. And under the present US Administration, I'm not sure what we can count on, frankly, on that front. There may come a point. If China goes on being both nice to Taiwan and threatening to Taiwan, and you get, for example, a Kuomintang government, it just might look like a better option.

[B]

Evdoksia Just finally on this, and just briefly, this does go a bit towards what you were talking about earlier with Ukraine and the sort of astonishing inconstancy and unreliability of the present US Administration. If you look at the same polling as to what the Taiwanese people would prefer, by far the most popular option is indefinite status quo. Like it just stays that it is in this sort of strange, ambiguous status. But you know, Taiwan is a, you know, it is a wealthy and prospering and having been there myself, can say entirely delightful country. But that, but that status quo is conditional, isn't it, on the idea that the United States is standing behind them.

[C]

Yeah, China is a big threat and it's very big army and very strong country. If they mean to go ahead with occupying Taiwan, it's a serious threat. And as Isabella said, if Trump administration doesn't keep supporting Taiwan, then Taiwan can be in real trouble there. It is a strong country by itself, it has advanced economy, but it's not the army. I mean, it cannot stand just opposite China. So it's all about to be seen. And I think here Aukus is coming, the great partnership between Australia, UK and usa, and it's a coalition they made to support that part of the world and including, of course, the threats of China to Taiwan.

[A]

It's under review in Washington, however. So again, it becomes another point of uncertainty and I think that we've mentioned mentioning sea power. My personal view of the most likely strategy is a blockade rather than invasion. But Taiwan only has something like 10 days of gas supply on the island in storage. So if it's not coming in by sea soon, quite soon, the lights go out. So, you know, Taiwan is in a difficult spot.

[B]

Well, to Greece now and a demonstration of the eternal tensions attending civil disobedience. On the one hand, disobedience is kind of the point of public protest. On the other, those citizens choosing not to participate, which is almost invariably the overwhelming majority of them, are entitled to expect civility. By way of pleasing the latter cohort, Greece's government has suggested banning protests from occurring at the Tomb of the Unknown Soldier in Athens. The tomb's location out the front of Parliament House has made it a fairly frequent host of such demonstrations. It is now proposed that any further such behaviour will incur a fine and or a year in the clink. Alexia, how big a thing is the idea of protesting at the Tomb of the Unknown Soldier? And I guess the important question is, are people protesting in that spot because it's the Tomb of the Unknown Soldier or because it's just what's out the front of Parliament?

[C]

It's the Trafalgar Square and Downing street together and Parliament, it's all together, everything. As you said, it's in front of the House of Parliament in Greece, the Sydagma Square. It's the biggest central square in Athens in the capital of Greece. And the Tomb of the Unknown Soldier isn't just A site in central Athens. It's highly touristical, of course, it's a point that everyone goes to get some photos.

[B]

It's where you see the guards changing with great ceremony.

[C]

Indeed, it's a symbol of democracy, of Greece's constitution and modern identity. So that's why the government's plan to ban protest. The protests there has triggered such a backlash in Greece. The sensitivity is heightened because the monument recently became the gathering place for the families of the Tempe train crash victims. Very quickly, I will say that this Tempe rail disaster happened in 28th of February 2023, when a passenger train and the freight train collided head on near Tempe in northern Greece. This resulted in 50 people killed, most of them. The majority of the victims were young people in their teens and twenties. It was many of them university students returning to Thessaloniki after a long weekend. And the youngest victim was 15 years old. Among the when the oldest were people in their late 50s to early 60s. So one father staged a 23 day hunger strike in front of the tomb of a known soldier there to demand justice for his son. He won. And so that looks like a constitutional debate about free expression, but is also bound up with rogue grief and public anger. And this place has been the center of similar protests through the economic crisis. If you remember all the images that were coming from Greece, devastating images. Opposition parties argue that the move is unconstitutional, infringes citizens rights. And globally, it raises the wider question, of course, as we see here as well, how do democracies protect symbolic places while still safeguarding protests rights? We're seeing similar debates here in the uk Exactly.

[B]

And on that subject, Isabelle, is it fair enough for a given democracy, such as this one, for example, to say protest? Fine, obviously we're in favour of that, but there are just some places where you can't do it.

[A]

Well, I guess it depends who you think the places belong to. And you know, in this instance from, from, from what we've been hearing, it's as though the government is saying it's our place. We, we can define it and people feel very strongly that it actually belongs to the people and it's an emotional place for them and that's where they go to express emotion about other things. I think that's a very tricky thing to ban, frankly. And I think it sounds like it's part of a general move against protest, which has been a little bit worrying in the last few years. And we have, as you say, we have our problems here with people, pensioners being arrested en masse for holding up cardboard signs saying, you know, free plasticine and all that kind of thing.

[B]

And it's, careful, Isabel, they'll come for you.

[A]

They will one day. But, you know, you've got to catch me first. But it is very, very silly. I think there's a kind of, you know, there's a lack of tolerance of expression building in Western democracies, which I think is, you know, it's better to have a valve, let people express their emotions and let it happen.

[B]

Would you personally draw a line anywhere? I mean, spray painting the Sen. Putting a funny hat on the statue of Churchill?

[A]

We've done that. That's been done. And actually, the nation survives. You know, sometimes it's regarded as outrageous. Some people will think that, some people will regard it as legitimate. I mean, I remember in 1989, wonderful picture in Highgate Cemetery of Karl Marx. The bust of Karl Marx with a life belt on his head. And, you know. Yeah, good for you.

[B]

Well, to Pittsburgh now, where a career in copywriting for the Pittsburgh Walk of Fame would appear to have shudder to an abrupt halt. The Walk of Fame is a new initiative honoring the Steel City's more commendable citizens, and the first inductees were announced this week, among them, Andy Warhol, George Benson, Nelly Bly, Andrew Carnegie, Jonas Salk, Roberto Clemente, and Michael Keaton. However, Keaton, one of the few in a position to attend in person, was bemused upon the unveiling of his plaque to note that they had misspelled Michael, transposing the A and the E. At which point I should probably. To anybody who either was bewildered or has yet looked it up, the reference to Doc Ellis at the top of the show was to the Pittsburgh Pirates pitcher who in 1970, while under the influence of LSD, nevertheless threw a no hitter. And I, I fail to understand how Pittsburgh did not include him in their first honorees, but we did want to talk a bit about misspelled or mispronounced names of dox here. I'm guessing, of course, this, I'm guessing, has happened to you once or twice in your life, especially outside Greece.

[C]

Well, I'm living in UK for 19 years now, so it's more like one or two thousand times it's happened to me. It's hilarious now. I really enjoy it sometimes, you know, I thought, oh, no, not again, you know, but yeah, especially when I go to, to a hospital for, for a test, right? And this poor nurse comes out and has to call my name and looks everyone and says something like, ev, Ev. And she's calling for help. Actually, nowadays I don't help. I'm just amusing myself.

[B]

You're just interested to see where they go with it.

[C]

I get up and going close to her and usually she replies with a smile, say, I'm sorry, how do you pronounce your name?

[B]

Because the thing that's interesting to me about things like this, and genuinely, I'm not taking a high horse against whoever balls this up at the Pittsburgh Walk of Fame, because I know Isabelle, and you must, we all must. How possible it is for a piece of writing which will have been written by a professional, then read by a professional editor, reread by professional. You can have a piece of copy that has had dozens of pairs of eyes on it. Dozens of pairs of eyes belonging to people who work with words for a living. And yet, indeed, how does it happen?

[A]

Well, I mean, as someone who's been known to commit the occasional mistypo, we.

[B]

Have all done it.

[A]

The typo. I'm a bit of a typo queen. My favourite of that kind was actually in a name badge and they got my name absolutely right. But it was a name badge for the international advisory board of an organization. I was on the international advisory board and this came out as international advisory Bard, which is amazing. It's my treasured present. So I now sing my advice like Cacophonyx.

[B]

This. This must. Is it. Maybe. I'm. I'm desperately scrambling here. Evdoxy. Is this just a thing? Is there a fault in the. In the Roman Alphabet? Does this happen in Greek as well? That you. You will have a thing where you've written something in Greek for a Greek newspaper and Greek editors have looked at it and it just gets waved into print with an absolutely clanging mistake in the middle of it?

[C]

Well, yes. Not my name.

[B]

It's that much they get right.

[C]

My name is a Greek ancient word. Not everybody knows. It's rare even for Greece. It's a good thing that I'm the public broadcaster. And now more people get to know the name as a name because it's very beautiful name and it has a nice meaning as well. But also, of course, mistakes are common in printing, in the web writing. They sleep. They can sleep everywhere. Even if you use the AI machines to.

[B]

I would say especially AI machines to edit them. Isabelle, just finally, then hypothetical, if wherever it was you came from decides we must have a walk of. And obviously yours would be one of the first names they considered. If you then schlepped up to wherever it was for the ceremony, they unveiled the plaque and they've managed to balls up. Isabel, how. How would you react?

[A]

I. I'd feel it was a fitting tribute to the many years of mistyping that I have been guilty of and extend my love and support to whoever committed this error.

[B]

Karmic recompense. Isabel Hilton and Evdoxia Lymperi, thank you. Thank you both for joining us. You are listening to the Daily. And finally, on today's show, here is Monocle's Vienna correspondent with a letter from the Austrian capital.

[D]

Oh, goodness. It's really difficult to fill up a tape. I never realized how difficult it was. Now I know what you must go through.

[E]

Voice messages may be a staple of our digital world, but they existed long before, before smartphones.

[D]

Already, with the invention of sound recording, with the phonograph and the wax cylinders, there was invented the idea that you could record your own voice and send it to your family or friends or someone. So we have audio letters on wax cylinders, on direct cut discs, tapes and on cassette tapes, different cassette formats, and it's really a huge variety.

[E]

These letters were not so different from the voice messages we share today. A bit of family news or a few words for friends and loved ones. But because recording and sending them took far more effort than simply tapping a screen, each message felt special. This one's from 1968. A daughter in New York speaking to her mother back in Vienna.

[D]

I am in a good mood tonight and I feel, for some strange reason, reason or other, I feel that you're right here in the house with us. I'm happy. I miss you, of course, but, well, I'm happy to be alive. My name is Eva Capella Halema. I'm a historian and I am principal investigator in the project Sonime, which is about sonic audio letters in times of migration and mobility.

[E]

The aim of the project is to gather as many of these recordings as possible. Here's another one from New York to Vienna, this time a direct cut disk from October 1945. It was recorded in German by an Austrian man who makes the point of addressing every single member of his family.

[D]

I think it's very special because they record a message and then he says, everybody come here. So he imagines his listeners and the whole family and greets everybody. And I think this is also an element of voice letters that is very common from the beginning to the end of voice messages, and that it's important that he doesn't forget, for example, somebody and the last not person, but the last one is a dog.

[E]

Ali Gedic had similar experiences he came to Austria as a teenager in 1976, brought over by his uncle, a gastarbeiter, or guest worker from southeastern Turkey. Every time he listened to a cassette from his relatives back home, Geddick says, he felt as though they were right there in the room with him, a mixture of joy and profound sadness. And what about Efa Capella Halema, the lead researcher? What does she feel when she's alone with these voices of strangers?

[D]

From the poet I get very involved with it emotionally. Yes, very. And this is also, I think, the research question, why? Why does it touch me so much? And I think that I feel that I'm in the room somewhere with a person I don't know. I think this is exactly the thing, why it was used for connecting, you know, absent persons or persons who could not be with each other. I think about this a lot. Mommy, it's getting late now. It's about 9 o' clock in the evening and I'm supposed to take the train all the way up to the Bronx.

[C]

Okay.

[D]

Good night, Mommy. I love you. God bless and be good. And my love to all of Vienna.

[A]

Good night.

[C]

Mind.

[B]

Alexey Korolyov with that report. And that is all for this edition of the Monocle Daily. Thanks to our panelists today, Isabel Hilton and Evoia Lymperi. Today's show was produced by Monica Lillis and researched by Joanna Moser. Our sound engineer was Steph Changu. I'm Andrew Muller here in London. The Daily is back at the same time tomorrow. Thanks for listening.

[C]

Sam.