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You're listening to the Monocle Daily, first broadcast on 10th October 2025 on Monocle Radio.
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France has a new prime minister. Or does it? Norway's Nobel Committee risks invasion by the United States and a leaf through Monocle's new special design issue. I'm Andrew Muller. The Monocle Daily starts now. Hello and welcome to the mon. Welcome to Monocle Daily. Coming to you from our studios here at Midori House in London. I'm Andrew Muller. An array of Monocle's most available staff. We'll discuss the day's stuff, plus we'll have analysis of the award of the 2025 Nobel Peace Prize to a Venezuelan opposition leader, and our weekly summary of what we've learned. Stay tuned. All that and more coming up right here on the Monocle Daily. This is the Monocle Daily. I'm Andrew Mul. It is a little over 48 hours since French President Emmanuel Macron promised that it was 48 hours at most before he would unveil France's sixth prime minister since the start of last year. In fairness, he does still, despite everything, have 68 and a half million people to choose from. So joining us first of all is Simon Bouvier, Monocle's Paris bureau chief, and perhaps, who knows, France's new Prime Minister. Simon, are we in fact any the wiser?
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C
Not yet. I haven't gotten a phone call. BFM is reporting that he will name the new prime minister before 8 o' clock local time, which is in the next hour. So we'll see if that report comes true. I'm keeping as I'm speaking to you, Andrew, my eyes glued to the Khirons in case there is white smoke before the end of our conversation. But no, we are none the wiser for now. We do still know the names of the two same frontrunners that have been making rounds in the last 48 hours, which are Jean Louis Bourlot, a former minister and businessman who has a bit of a maverick profile and who could theoretically appeal both to the left and the right for the delicate task of at least passing a budget before the end of the year. And then we'll see. Or renaming Prime Minister Sebastien Rocornou, who only lasted 27 days and just resigned.
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B
I have heard that rumour as well, that he might just ask Sebastien Lecagneux to go round again. But let's look at that possibility, because aside from what would seem like the obvious drawback, that is, the national assembly, which has bounced him once, will probably bounce him again. The optics are not great, are they? That does rather look like. I have literally no other ideas.
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C
Yes, the optics are not great is the mother of all understatements, Andrew. In fact, they're so poor that I think within the President's party itself, it has started a wave of protestations at the very idea that that might happen. But at the end of the day, it's the President's decision, and he has shown that he is not against making decisions that go against the grain of even his supporters, and the more so as time has passed. So there is an argument, if we're kind of putting ourselves in his shoes here, there are some rational arguments in favor of this. First, that he has already started working on a budget that must be submitted before Monday to Parliament. So there are technically only 48 hours left before a budget must be submitted to the Assembly Nationale, and he's already gotten a head start on that. Somebody who's coming in fresh will have to work that much harder. And secondly, that he was able to establish some level of rapport with most of the parties, and it was just the partisan ambitions of the leader of the Le Republican Party that tanked his efforts to get this budget through 48 hours ago. Or was it four days ago? I don't remember, Andrew. It's just dizzying.
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It's a bleak thought. But is it arguable that it doesn't really matter who he the new Prime Minister, because whoever it is won't last anyway? Such is the mood of the National Assembly. Indeed, we did hear from Maureen Le Pen, the leader of National Rally, earlier this week, that whoever President Macron appointed, she would do everything in her power to bring them down as well.
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C
Of course. And it's because it's in their interest, the National Rally's interest, that is, to go to the polls as soon as possible, because they've seen the latest opinion polls that show that if there were legislation, legislative elections now, they would get somewhere between 36 and 39% of the vote in the first round. So essentially, they would be reinforced, while almost everybody else would be weakened. And Macron's gamble with this meeting that he called today with all of the heads of parties from all of the governing parties, meaning not the far left and not Marine Le Pen and her minions, was supposed to create a kind of consensus around the very French idea of, okay, well, you don't know what you're for, what about what you're against. The French always say that they choose their president based on who they dislike the most. He called all these party bosses over to the Elysee and said, what do you dislike the most? Getting a budget through or risking your seats in early elections? That I can call at the drop of a hat. So you decide, but I would like you to get together and pass a budget and then you can resume your kind of partisan dealings. But we need to get this budget through. It didn't look like it went off very well because as these party bosses left the meeting, their reactions were very mixed, to say the least. I mean, the more left leaning parties were clearly extremely frustrated and disappointed that he showed no intention of making any compromises on their policy priorities and neither did he show any intent of naming a prime minister that would be compatible with their views. So it's, it doesn't smell very good, Andrew.
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I must say going back though to that prospect that he might call an early election and that the National Rally might do quite well. If Macron is beginning to contemplate the possibility of a bit of nine dimensional chess, is that entirely unappealing to him? Because the next thing he is thinking about is France's next presidential election in which obviously he cannot stand himself because he's term limited. But might he be thinking, well, but possibly the best way to sabotage national rallies hopes in that is to let them try to govern for a bit so everybody will end up hating them as much as French people always end up hating anybody who tries to govern them.
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C
I mean, I think it's possible that he's thinking that far ahead and he is playing nine dimensional chess, as you put it, Andrew. I think it's also possible that objectively very brilliant president also has serious blind spots and limitations and makes one blunder the next when it comes to politics and domestic policy itself. And personally I think that that second option is far more likely. And I do think, as I wrote in the Monocle minute earlier this week, that if the National Rally emerges from these early elections reinforced to a very significant degree, I think that the conventional right, which has already sent many signals that the kind of previously great Wal of China caliber separation that was between them and the Rassemblement national essentially doesn't exist anymore. They've expressed openness to governing with them part of what used to be the traditional right, has already joined them in a kind of alliance. In fact, the person who leads this small group was the former leader of the Republican Party. So I think the if you can't beat them, join them scenario could very well come to pass if there are early elections and the Assemblement Nationale is so strong that the Conventional right feels they should join them and create this coalition of the right that will be able to govern in spite of Emmanuel Macron's wishes.
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I mean, it does feel like that we are contemplating one of those situations to which one might apply what is known as Stein's Law, after the American economist Herbert Stein, who coined it, which basically holds that when something can't go on, it won't, because Macron surely cannot just assume that he can carry on appointing a new prime minister every other month until 2027.
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C
Well, yes, I think, personally, I feel like we talk a lot about the instability and the current political chaos as inevitable. And I do think that the kind of presidential ambitions of all of these different national political leaders are not making this task easy. But he still has some cards to play that he has not. He could try putting somebody who is more left leaning in char and he could compromise on some of his what he views as his policy accomplishments and be open to, for instance, suspending retirement reform or these other kind of totems that the opposition is demanding from the president and his supporters. But he has not done that yet. I think there is a degree of obstinacy here that is a bit concerning. But I also think there is absolutely no way that he will resign. It used to be that it was a super fringe view that the president should resign. And now there are more and more people who I think for the sake or for the purpose of distancing themselves from him, are calling for him to resign and hold early presidential elections. But they understand that there is no way he is doing that. That would essentially open the door to saying a president who was elected for five years during a presidential election can be taken down by political pressure, which he will not. Let that be his legacy.
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Simon Bouvier, Monocle's Paris bureau chief, thank you for joining us. You are listening to THE daily. You're listening to the Daily with me, Andrew Muller. We will be listening. It seems to at least another year of US President Donald Trump whining that he does not have a Nobel Peace Prize. The Norwegian Nobel Committee has instead bunged the gong to Maria Corina Machado, Venezuela's principal opposition leader, and, as the citation correctly noted, one of the most extraordinary examples of civilian courage in Latin America in recent times. Such are the stakes Machado has risked that her precise whereabouts are necessarily unknown and she may not be able to accept her award in person. In remarks unlikely to encourage President Trump towards a philosophical view of his disappointment, Machado's citation further noted a worldwide trend of the rule of law abused by those in control, free media silenced, critics imprisoned, and societies pushed towards authoritarian rule and militarisation. I'm joined with more by Bruno Kaufmann, global democracy correspondent at the Swiss Broadcasting Company. Bruno, is she a surprising choice or basically the kind of person who in a year when the President of the United States wasn't trying to win it for himself, could have been expected to win the Nobel Peace Prize?
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D
Hello, Andrew. Yeah, no, she is a surprising choice. I mean, she wasn't really in the books, in the rumors, in the list of favorites, there were no Maria Corina Machado named. But in the end, of course, it's about that the committee really looked into the challenges for democracy, but also for peace. And in that way it's a very logic choice. It's a great choice, I would say, because it's argued in a way that that democracy is on retreat. And she is one of those persons in the world which since 20 years have fought for democratic rights in her own country, Venezuela. And she has done that in a very, let's say, peaceful, patient way. And that's the way the committee wants to high rise. They want to highlight this. And in that way, Maria Corina Machado is a very logical choice.
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B
I mean, are there any previous Nobel winners who are broadly comparable, by which I mean civilian opposition leaders to militaristic regimes? I was thinking maybe of such as they were at the time, at least Lech Walesa, Aung San SUU Kyi, more recently, Najez Mohamadi.
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D
Exactly. I mean, that's maybe also the surprise that just Najez Mohamadi 2 years ago was chosen as a woman under pressure in Iran, a human rights activist, also one for free and fair elections. And that's the reason maybe people and observers wouldn't have expected to have this kind of prize again this year. I mean, there were many discussions about having somebody active in ongoing wars, humanitarian rights, international organizations, or even environmental issues. But this price was quite quick. After this price two years ago for the Iranian human rights fight, I mean.
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Do we think that the committee takes into account the effect that this award might have on an honoree in this position, which is very precarious. She has taken on the Venezuelan regime of President Nicolas Maduro, which has a fairly lengthy record of dispensing with those it finds objectionable? Is the reasoning perhaps that if we award this person a Nobel Peace Prize, we will instantly make her extremely famous and that perhaps not only strengthens her, but protects her?
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D
I think so. I mean, I had a conversation with director of the Nobel Institute a couple of weeks ago, and he underlined that the Nobel Priests Prize Committee wants to support people who maybe need this kind of support, that they will also, in the months to come, really go out and support her, try to make her case in the region, also really give her more legitimacy. And this is maybe really something they hope, hope will be a tipping point for the regime in Venezuela, which is maybe a little bit too much to expect. But in the same time, you have to see that also Maria Corina Machado is a big supporter of the president, US President Trump's, let's say, policy vis a vis Venezuela, which is under high pressure. So it's interestingly that the prize winner of this year here is a big supporter of the US President.
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B
Nevertheless, is it possible to read the citation in any other way than as a bit of a pop at President Trump when they talk about the rule of law being abused, media silenced, societies pushed towards authoritarian rule and militarization? I mean, I know there's a depressingly large number of countries you could say that about, but the people who drafted that citation aren't stupid. They knew how people would read that.
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D
Exactly. I mean, I feel that the Nobel Peace Prize Committee really goes for the criteria in the will of Alfred Nobel, which are about these kind of issues, which are interpreted to be modern democratic principles. And in that way, of course, it's a signal also to other countries, including the United States, that these criteria maybe not be the strongest ones on President Trump's list. What he is achieving just now within.
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B
The United States and just finally, because I suspect we are in for at least another year of this kind of nonsense, we have heard today from one American congressman, Buddy Carter of the Georgia first, that he is going to introduce a resolution to award President Trump the Nobel Peace Prize. He doesn't really seem to understand that that's not quite how it works. But in the history of the award, is there any indication at all that continually demanding that you be given one is the to actually get it, though I don't suppose anybody else has really tried? No.
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D
That's fascinating, of course. I mean, the reaction also by the White House that this prize shows that the committee is putting politics over peace also underlines this kind of simplistic understanding what peace means. And I mean, the Nobel Committee very clearly made it in the also explanation for giving Maria Corinna Machado the prize this year, that that democracy is a precondition for peace. It's a step towards peace. So it's a clear signal. And at the same time, of course, keeping Trump interested in this prize will not make the prize less famous. It will maybe be the perfect way of keeping him on track to support peace processes around the world. But during the next year, this will create a lot of pressure, and the American friends and supporters of Trump and himself will probably increase this pressure until next year when there will be the 125 year anniversary of the Nobel Peace Prizes and the peace and the Nobel Prizes. So we can expect a quite exciting year around the Nobel Prizes.
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Bruno Kaufmann, global democracy correspondent at the Swiss Broadcasting Company. Thank you for joining us. You're listening to the Daily. Daily. You're listening to the Daily with me, Andrew Muller. This time next week or thereabouts, a newsstand near you will feature Monocle magazine's new design guide. And for a preview of what is in it, I am joined now by Grace Charlton, Monocle's associate editor for design and fashion, and Nick Manese, Monocle's design editor. Hello to you both, my fellow Australians.
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Hello.
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E
This is the only reason we do it, really. This is our one chance to kind of get away from the rest of the office and have a little antipodean moment.
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B
I know we, we've shut the poms and everybody else out.
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E
Yeah. The problem is it does lock from the outside. So I'm, I don't know how we're gonna get out of this studio, but we are in here.
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B
Should we just talk about the cricket instead? The Ashes?
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No.
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E
I would love to. Grace specifically said she didn't want to talk about the football, but you're right, she didn't say anything about the cricket.
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She didn't want to say anything about the cricket.
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Definitely talk. I will be there. Day one of the Ashes. I just want that out there and then we done.
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B
We should probably talk about the Monocle Design Directory, Special edition issue one. It says here on the COVID Grace, first of all, explain basically what the Monocle Design Directory is.
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It's so exciting. It's an annual special. It's only, it's basically Monocle magazine. If it was just design and I.
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This is the dream for you two, right?
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Exactly. And I would also like to say it's a real labor of love, you know, and it took a lot of effort and we were really proud of it. And I think it looks good and the images are a little bit bigger. There's more breathing room. It's stunning. I mean, you're flipping through it now. What do you think, Andrew?
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I think it is damn Handsome.
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E
Oh, we'll take that. I think. No, but I think. I think it's worth.
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B
It's on much glossier paper.
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E
It is much glossier. I think it's also worth noting that Grace and I really had to push for this. But Grace almost went into the territory of like, a. What I would like to imagine a German Soul Cycle instructor is like, you know, like, go bigger. Go bigger, longer, try harder. Like, this was very much the energy. And I think that is reflected on Paige. The stories are longer, the images are bigger, it's juicier, it's packed with amazing tales and. And, like, this is why you are.
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B
Now a crumpled, broken man. This.
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E
Well, I also went to a workout class at lunchtime, so it might be that, too. So you're kind of seeing a confluence of things here. But I mean, truly just an opportunity to really, really dive into ideas, concepts, architecture, furniture, in great depth in a way that we don't typically. I mean, Grace has got probably one of my favorite stories in there. It's about the Spomeniks, these monuments built in the former Yugoslavia. And, you know, it's one of those stories where we kind of bounce ideas off each other. And Grace sends this across and it sort of just sounded like she wanted to go on holiday. But really, once we started to dive into it. Once we started to dive into it, it turned out to be amazing. I mean, do you want to pick up. Is this like a natural FL for you to explain, justify your expense account?
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A
It's quite cheap in the Balkans, so it wasn't too expensive to shoot this and report this.
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B
Page 95. This is me flipping through to page 95.
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E
I think the other thing was. Oh, sorry, sorry. I talked over that.
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B
I can do that again.
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E
The exciting thing, and I'm sorry, I will let Grace get to this in a moment. But the exciting thing was that Andrew Muller, you had never even opened it when you were introducing us. So live reactions to Grace's story.
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B
I am looking forward to reading this later because I have traveled fairly frequently, frequently in the former Yugoslavia, and I have seen some of its sort of communist era brutalist artworks and architecture up close. There is something. I've not seen that one. I've seen the pictures of it. The monument to the Revolution.
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E
Andrew, it's a radio show. Grace, can you explain what.
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B
Andrew, this is live audio of me pointing at it. Yeah, it's stunning.
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A
Yeah, they're the monuments to World War II, the events that happened across the former Yugoslavian republic. And this story was pitched to me by a really lovely Slovenian photographer called Jakob. And we just spent five days driving around together and shooting these. And they're very. It's hard to convey through a picture or even through words the experience of sort of standing underneath these. They're huge. Like sometimes they're about 40 meters tall.
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E
Typically concrete, kind of typically concrete steel.
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But they have a real presence and aura. Sorry to use that word but like that it's. And a lot of it is quite horrible history. Like some really horrific events happened on where these stand. So I think it's a different way into design. You know, we talk a lot about beautiful chairs and beautiful things, but this is really what the power of design can be in architecture. And it was, yeah, a really sort of memorable story to report.
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E
And I think jumping off the back of that, I mean Grace talked to current architects in the Balkans, also managed to track down one of the original architects that designed these bominiks. But I think what, you know, people often like, oh, why? Actually by people I mean you, Andrew Miller, it's like why do you care about design? Like why should I care about a pretty chair or you know, a big hulk of concrete? And I feel like the hulk of concrete is maybe in your world. But it's all these kind of like there are socio political threads that run through that story. It's charting the rise and fall of a country. There's great architecture and design that goes through that. There's also, I guess how do you deal with memory and like not dwell on it but also not be weighed. Sorry, not be weighed down on it but also kind of push forward and use it as a springboard. And it's those sorts of things that I think make design fun to read and I hope that comes across in the pages.
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B
I have here as well four magazines because to make it clear, you can buy this magazine four times if you like. You will get the same magazine four times but you will get four different covers. Nick, what was the thinking behind that? It wasn't just to get everybody to buy it full time.
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E
No, that wasn't our intention. But if that does happen, hey, amazing. And give them out to your friends. No, the thinking, the thinking behind it was it was an opportunity to kind of test a. You know, we wanted to take a new approach to the COVID We wanted it to be a full bleed image. So like take up, take up the full, I guess borders of the page, of the COVID page. But also, you know, we typically have a lot of, I guess I would call it like visual architecture on the Page, you'll have a listing of what you might find inside. And we wanted to kind of see what would happen if we just had a punchy cover line, tiny little bit more detail, and then predominantly an image. And that's where we went. But at the moment, the plan is for this to be an annual magazine. So we would have to wait until next year to design another cover. So it kind of got into like, well, why don't we just make four and kind of see where we go with that? But the other thing is, it also gives us a chance to kind of show the geographic spread and reach of. Of our magazine coverage here. So we've got Sao Paulo, Tokyo, Paris and Mexico as the covers. I mean, Grace's idea to. Grace had this idea to pull together these surveys on creative communities that were kind of partly a travel guide, but also partly a kind of look into the local community. So each of them are kind of prominent on the COVID I mean, do you want to dive into the importance of the creative communities?
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Yeah, I mean, it's always interesting to sort of take a temperature check in a particular city, especially one that isn't Milan or Copenhagen. You know, those sort of meccas of design. So we headed to Sao Paulo, Tokyo and Paris. And it was really fun. And it's a real celebration of what a little microcosm can do. Do you have a favorite cover? Actually, Nick, I don't know what your answer is.
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E
I think I do. We have this. It's funny. Cause it was the COVID I almost didn't initially think was the strongest. If we're gonna dive, you know, if we're gonna reveal all our hands. But you've got it right in front of you. Andrew Muller.
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B
I was just gonna ask, who are these fellows?
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E
Three buff Japanese men from a company called Tank. And they make amazing furniture and objects and interiors. And we went into and took a photograph of them. But the COVID reads, japan's most eligible Craftsman. I don't know if they're actually single, but certainly have a crack if you're interested. But they are definitely eligible to build bespoke furniture for you if you're interested.
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B
Just before we let you go, do you each have one other favorite story, just briefly, that you would like to.
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A
It's not really a story. It's more of a visual experience. But the still life shoot, we called in a bunch of furniture. And personally, Nick and I spent a lot of hours packing, unpacking, carrying. I had lower back pain for like a month after this shoot. But I think the result is worth it. It looks amazing.
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E
Yeah, we kind of like to get hands on and make sure that what people see on page really does reflect our vision. And that does mean wrapping very expensive furniture and bubble wrap. I mean, I think, I think the other thing for me there's amazing stories on Mexico, Mexican architecture, on US trade schools and how we build a better future. But I think for me, the other, the other thing that's worth mentioning is the anchor property of the design directory, which is the actual directory itself. And we went to about 60 cities across the globe and listed our favourite architects, designers, interior architects, furniture brands, galleries, shops, who you should go and visit or commission for amazing design work. So I think that's what makes this an incredibly valuable tool as well as being a beautiful thing to look at.
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B
And Reid, Nick Monies and Grace Charlton, thank you both for joining us. You're listening to the Daily on Monocle Radio. You're listening to the Daily on Monocle Radio. I'm joined now by Fernando Augusto Pacheco, Monocle's senior correspondent. Fernando, why are you here?
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F
I am here because I have a very exotic story for you and it was a very.
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B
What story?
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D
Exotic.
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B
Exotic. Okay. I liked the enunciation and emphasis the first time round, but whatever.
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F
I'll tell you very briefly we this French comedian, Paul Caban, and he's a massive star in Brazil. Millions and millions on social media, of followers on social media. And I am a fan as well. And then I found out he was coming to London and it's a very interesting one because, you know, he was a waiter in France. He moved to Brazil with his Brazilian wife and suddenly he becomes his big star. He started teaching French and now he's even playing cities like Lisbon, Paris, London for the Brazilian community. So I had this experience. I was at the last Square Theater, a sold out gig, all Brazilians. There was a French comedian in Portuguese here in London. It was quite interesting. But, you know, then I decided to invite him for an interview to tell us about how humor translates. You know, the difference between French humor and Brazilian humor. He's a very funny guy, I have to say.
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B
Well, I would hope so. It goes with the territory. Before we get into the interview though, how would you characterize his humor? Is he a bit like anybody else?
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F
He observes the oddities of Brazilian daily life and. And it's interesting because he's not Brazilian, so he can.
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B
It's a tough balance to go to someone else's country and make fun of them and have them actually like you.
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F
Yes. And Brazilians do like him, but the things he observes are quite sweet. I'll give you a very brief example. So if I'm eating something and I offer food to you, officially, I don't want you to accept it, but I have to, because I will feel good about myself and you know that you shouldn't accept. So that's the Brazilian Cup. But of course, if you're a foreigner, say yes, I want that little biscuit in your hand. Do not accept it. Actually, he didn't want to offer you.
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B
Fernando, just to bring our listeners in, you do quite frequently offer biscuits round the radio table. And we usually go, oh, cheers, mate, thanks very much. I'll have a biscuit. Are you actually hoping that we won't take the biscuit? And more to the point, are you thinking the less of us every time we take the biscuit, as it were, are you just sitting there going, God, these people have no manners?
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F
Partially. And there's also the option sometimes you. I want to share it, but you have to accept only on the third time I ask, otherwise you're too eager.
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B
Okay, so next time you're passing around the biscuits at the radio table, I have to wait for the third time, otherwise you're not actually serious and you don't want me to have a biscuit.
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F
Yes, exactly. Simple as that.
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B
Okay, okay, I will say that exactly. That's all now. Entirely clear. Fernando, would you like to cue up the chat?
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F
Here is the very fun guy. Pok A ban.
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G
Yeah, you start noticing small habits, like this one, for example. Yeah, The Brazilian person who has a piece of food in his hand will offer it to you politely, with the expectation that you refuse, and then you have to refuse. So he doesn't really want to give you this piece of food, and you actually. But he will offer it to you and you won't accept it, but you have to refuse it. So it's like. But apparently this is the way you guys feel. Good. So, okay, but sometimes he actually wants you to accept it, but you have to refuse it. And then, yeah, he will try a second, second time, you will refuse it, and then you, you will give it a third time. He will, he will give you a third time, and then you can accept it. But there's many things, like at the parties, for example, you can't leave a Brazilian party. I noticed this. And then people would say, like, ta seido. It's very soon, you know, it's like. And then they get, they started inventing, you know, excuses like, yeah, but this is the birthday, you know, we didn't blow the candle. And then you stay. But. But whose birthday is this? And they will invite something like, my cat. My cat is doing, like seven years old today. And then you can't. It's like a kind of. How do you say sequestra in English?
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F
It's a kidnapping.
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G
It's a kidnapping. Yeah. And when I noticed this, I started thinking, so if I can't leave other people's parties, I will do my own parties. Then it's worse because people wouldn't leave your house. And then you would have to throw, like, you know, signs. Like, you start brushing your teeth. But it's very rude to say you want people to leave. You don't do that. In Brazil, it's a very informal culture. So you would show signs, like, you brush your teeth. And they would say, like. But do you want us to leave? And you have to say, like, no, no, no, please not.
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B
Of course not.
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G
Then you take a pillow and you put it in the front of people in your own room, in your own living room. And you. And you act like you just start sleeping. And then people will even say, like, yeah, yeah, do you want me to leave? And you still have to say, no, no, of course. Stay here, Stay here. All those habits are funny, are really funny, especially when you come from a culture that is very different, the French culture.
- [33:21]
F
More direct, right?
- [33:22]
G
It's much more direct.
- [33:23]
F
What are the similarities, actually, between Brazil and France that you notice? I know, you know, there are a lot of differences, but.
- [33:29]
G
Well, first of all, there are many words, you know, that are in common. You say intelligencia, intelligence, you know, all those Latin words. Well, there's that. The thing about the religion, you know, basically there are Christian religions, Christian cultures, cultures. Apart from that, there's not a lot of similarities. You know, Brazil used to have a lot of French influence in the 60s, and before. Now they're more influenced by the United States. But there are many differences. For example, we say no in a direct way. Very direct way.
- [34:06]
F
No.
- [34:06]
G
I had the luck to. I was very honored to be invited to have dinner with the French president and the French. And the Brazilian president in Paris. So it was going to ask about that.
- [34:21]
D
Tell me.
- [34:22]
G
It was a Palais de l', Elysees, which is the. The residence of the. Of Emmanuel Macron, our president. And at the end of the dinner, I asked politely to Edward, I said, like, do you mind if we maybe go to the garden to see a little bit? He just say, no, and then he turned around and leaves. This is something you would never see in Brazil. They would say, brazilian people don't say no. They just add vowels. You say, like, is this neighborhood safe? They would say, safe, Seguro. You would never hear the word no. You know, people want to be polite. They don't want to displease you. It's very Brazilian. It's very kind, actually, people. It's pleasant to live in Brazil because people are kind. Sometimes it's just hard to understand if they want to say no or yes, because it's hard. But it's the premium level, you know, when you understand the culture.
- [35:13]
F
And you're a very kind comedian as well. I think a lot of Brazilians can see how much you love and appreciate Brazil. Except for the fact that we eat filled croissants. I think that's a little bit of a crime.
- [35:23]
B
Right.
- [35:24]
F
Even I have to say that.
- [35:25]
G
Yeah. I mean, this is criminal. Yeah. I would pardon many things, but this is not pardonable. But I mean. Yeah, this is actually a joke I started making a couple of years ago about the cross croissant. The croissant. Because you. You would eat it with like, I don't know, like cream cheese and pickles. Pickles and all those kind of things.
- [35:44]
F
Ham or whatever.
- [35:45]
G
Yeah, ham, ketchup and. And everything. And then I would start making videos. Like, I noticed I was gaining a lot of followers every time I do those videos. So now I'm trapped in my own joke. I have to. Every time I see a video of croissant or something, I have to make another video acting like I'm. I'm very upset. Sets in a very French way. You know, I think in France, nobody has ever said ooh la La in 50 years. But I say it. It's good for my. My career, you know?
- [36:18]
B
That was Monocle's senior correspondent Fernando Augusto Pacheco speaking to Paul Caban. You are listening to the Daily with me, Andrew Muller. And finally on today's show, our weekly assessment of what we know now that we did not know seven days ago. We learned this week that the UK's Conservative party, having spent a goodly proportion of this century demonstrating that they were unable to govern Britain, are also incapable of spelling it.
- [36:52]
A
I can't wait to hear this guy.
- [36:54]
B
Tell me more. We learned this from the wrapping of one of the flowers freebies distributed to the meagre crew of Gaunt Cobweb covered weirdos who turned up at the Tories conference in Manchester on current trajectory, possibly the last such gathering before the one involving queueing resignedly for ladles of tainted Kool Aid. Specifically, we learned that the proofreading of a wrapper of a conference branded confectionary may have lapsed towards the lackadaisical this.
- [37:24]
D
Is a bar chocolate.
- [37:25]
A
Thank you so much, Tories. When Labour negotiates, Britain loses. That is signed by Kemi Beidinot.
- [37:32]
B
We learned that, yes, one reform of Britain that the Conservatives had proved capable of enacting, if only inadvertently, was slightly renaming it from Britain to Britain. Diligent as ever in our research, we at the what We Learned monologue on Monocle Radio put this refinement to a focus group.
- [37:53]
A
Britian, Actually, maybe it could be what about Great Brian?
- [38:05]
B
But even moving away from Great Britian, or if you will, the untied kind gum of Gerat Brittan and Nathan Ridnal, we learned that the Global Libertarian project was struggling somewhat with reality and indeed melody. We learned this from, yes, Argentina, specifically from Argentina's President Javier Milei, who launched his latest book by taking the lead singer role in some sort of rock and roll concert. Oh no, Afraid so. Appropriately, indeed, possibly, inevitably, unfortunately, for someone who has always cultivated the haircut and leather jacket of the angry divorcee who plays the Jean Jacques Bernell role in Buenos Aires 7th Best Stranglers tribute act, President Milei subjected a crowd large enough to prompt speculation that the doors were bolted on the outside to an hour long set of Argentinian rock standards, from which we learn that there is an hour's worth of Argentinian rock standards, at least one of which we learned sounds like this, at least when Malay sings it. Mallet. Is the original any better? No. No it is not. Anyway, we learned that President Milei was seeking to incite interest in his new book, the Construction of the Miracle, a celebration of his economic Plan, which in absolutely glorious timing hits the bargain bins. Just as Argentina has been compelled to seek a $20 billion bailout from the United States, so we learned, or at least surmised, that purchases of Milei's book may be more likely. Likely, and would certainly be better advised to burn it for warmth than read it. But sticking with the subject of presidents who have published book length overestimations of their own expertise, we learned that though it may feel like we have, as a species, done little with the last decade or so other than listen to Donald Trump. We should have listened to him earlier.
- [40:29]
C
There's a page in there devoted to the fact that I saw somebody named.
- [40:32]
B
Osama bin Laden and I didn't like.
- [40:35]
C
It and you got to take care of him.
- [40:37]
B
They didn't do it.
- [40:38]
C
A year later he blew up the World Trade center. So we got to take a little credit because nobody else is going to give it to me.
- [40:44]
B
We learned, however, when we checked back on our copy of the book in question, which did involve extracting it from beneath the wobbly leg of the desk. That is how seriously we take our fact checking that this claim may not have been strictly speaking true, and may have been strictly speaking bollocks. We learned from leafing through our copy of the 2000 published the America We Deserve quite the fate tempting title in hindsight. Can I get some general muttered agreement that while it does contain a single mention of Osama bin Laden, it does not identify him as any singular threat and and nor at any rate was this any particularly piercing insight, bin Laden having been on the FBI's most wanted list since the year prior to publication. In fairness, however, it is difficult to blame Donald Trump for this misapprehension of the contents of the America We Deserve by Donald Trump. It's not like he's ever read it. But we learned that Trump's administration, in its pursuit of America's vicious, ruthless and imaginary enemies within, remains dauntless, and that no member of it is burdened by less daunt than White House Deputy Chief of Staff and almost heartbreakingly inevitable eventual fall guy for all of this nonsense. Stephen Miller when in our history have we tolerated unlawful riotous assemblies night after night around FBI buildings or ATF buildings or DEA buildings? This is the textbook definition of domestic terrorism. When has the United States ever tolerated riotous assemblies around government buildings? He has just returned to the White House and is signing a series of executive actions in the Oval Office, where he is pardoning some 1500 January 6th rioters who have been convicted for participating the attack on the Capitol four years ago. And that is all for this edition of the Monocle Daily. Thanks to our guests today. Simon Bouvier, Bruno Kaufman, Grace Charlton, Nick Minis and Fernando Augusto Pacheco. Today's show was produced by Hassan Anderson and researched by Joanna Moser. Our sound engineer was Elliot Greenfield. I'm Andrew Muller here in London. The Daily is back at the same time on Monday. Thanks for listening and have a great weekend.
- [43:06]
A
It.