The Monocle Daily — Episode Summary

Date: October 7, 2025
Title: From Japan to the Czech Republic, is the centre-right doomed to be outflanked by conservative populism?
Host: Andrew Muller
Guests: Robin Lustig (journalist and broadcaster), Alex von Tunzelmann (historian, author, screenwriter)
Special Interview: Lt General Sir Barney White-Spunner

Overview

This episode explores shifting political landscapes in Europe and beyond, with a focus on the decline of traditional centre-right parties and the rise of further-right populist movements. The discussion spans the fallout from the events of October 7, 2023 in Israel and Gaza, the current state of the UK Conservative Party, transformations in global media, challenges in modern education (particularly literature), and concludes with a historical and military perspective from Lt Gen Sir Barney White-Spunner.

1. Reflections Two Years After October 7, 2023

[04:00–11:15]

• Context: The panel marks the two-year anniversary of the Hamas attack on Israel and Israel’s ongoing military response.
• Key Points:
  • Scale and Shock: Robin Lustig notes that "the scale of the Israeli response, the scale of the devastation, both the human loss and indeed the material loss...the pictures coming out of Gaza still have the power to shock" [05:26]. Neither predicted this level of destruction.
  • Motivations of Hamas: Alex von Tunzelmann suggests “it’s not surely a result that anyone would have rationally wanted,” and posits rationality was perhaps not a factor in Hamas’s decision [06:20].
  • Geopolitical Shifts: Lustig comments Hamas was likely aiming “to put themselves back into the conversation” as Abraham Accords sidelined the Palestinian cause [07:19].
  • Future Outlook: Lustig is not optimistic about near-term peace, stating, "The words optimism and Middle east do not sit happily together in a single sentence" [08:43].
  • Netanyahu and Security: Von Tunzelmann questions whether Israel is truly safer after the conflict, noting "his actions...have enormously damaged Israel's reput [internationally]" and observing a generational global shift towards pro-Palestinian sentiment [10:05].
• Notable Quote:

  “Peace will come to the Middle east, but I don’t think it’ll come in our lifetime.”
  — Robin Lustig [08:56]

2. The Crisis of the Center-Right in Britain and Beyond

[11:16–21:01]

• UK Conservative Party:
  • Conference Malaise: The Tory conference is described as funereal, with the party slipping in polls and possibly facing historic lows [12:08].
  • Disconnect From Voters: Alex von Tunzelmann points out, "You really are taking this for granted and you have no idea what you need to do to turn this around" [13:06].
• The Broader Western Trend:
  • Populist Outflanking: Lustig claims, "If you take center right parties...as a political expression of a capitalist economy...people are asking whether capitalism is really delivering for them" [13:55].
  • Failures of the Economic Bargain: Economic insecurity—accelerated by the 2008 crash and Covid-19—has eroded trust in the political class [15:00].
  • The Overton Window: Muller and von Tunzelmann discuss how "sentiments and statements which would have been...career ending maybe just a decade ago" are now mainstream [15:30], referencing controversial comments by Robert Jenrick at the Tory conference [16:14].
  • Populist Drift: Von Tunzelmann asserts that as parties chase the further right, they only legitimize and normalize extreme positions:

    “When you embrace those terms, you don’t immunise yourselves...what you do is just push it further and further right. And why wouldn’t voters...go for the red meat of Nigel Farage and Reform?” [17:50]

• Strategic Dilemma:
  • Lustig: "Do they stand their ground, or move out to the fringes?" [18:54]
  • Both panelists reflect on how the Republican Party has become a Trumpist cult and draw parallels with the Tories [19:10].
  • Advice For Centre-Right: Von Tunzelmann: “The ones who came out of that [interwar] period with some dignity understood they had to stand up for democracy, the rule of law, for decency, for moral values...At least it’ll allow you to look in the mirror.” [20:29]

3. Media, Power, and Conservative Realignment in the US

[21:01–26:18]

• Barry Weiss at CBS News:
  • Controversy around Weiss’s appointment, seen as driven more by political alignment than journalistic credentials [21:41].
  • Lustig draws parallels with authoritarianism:

    “Any nascent political movement knows they have to capture the means of communication. First thing any coup leader does is seize the radio station...Trumpist cult is...buying, intimidating, scaring the main means of communication.” [21:41]

  • Von Tunzelmann: “It’s very obvious that the reason she's [Weiss] there is entirely political…either CBS executives are cowed, as Robyn has described, or they just agree with her.” [23:16]
• Impact on Journalism:
  • Mention of “the new censorship”—the rise of self-censorship and political intimidation of the media, referencing Ayala Panievsky’s book [24:21].
  • Concerns that legacy outlets are making the same errors as centre-right parties—alienating existing audiences to chase an audience unlikely to convert [25:49].
  • Von Tunzelmann:

    “The media landscape has changed so radically...if you’re going to survive in the modern media environment, you need to be able to think critically, assess sources...” [32:09 and 33:04]

4. The Decline of Literary Reading Among Young People

[26:18–33:18]

• University Literature Courses:
  • British universities reportedly remedially teach literature students how to read books [26:18].
  • Muller lampoons the trend as “symptoms of the decadence of a generation obviously less robust and noble than one’s own...” [26:18]
• Is It Really Worse Now?
  • Lustig points out that summarizing literature is not new (“Reader’s Digest...provided potted versions of books for people who couldn’t read long books” [27:08]).
  • Von Tunzelmann links the decline in deep reading to changes in schooling, especially a “boring” curriculum at age 16 focused on technicalities, not reading for pleasure [28:34].
  • Noted gap between what’s taught at secondary (high school) and university levels, leaving students unprepared [29:37].
  • Additional statistic: Only about 10% of American teens now read for fun, down from 35% in the 1980s [29:58].
• Value of Reading and Critical Thinking:
  • Lustig supports reading for enrichment but notes, “Times do change...learning to read very long books written a long time ago is not necessarily a good capital G thing” [30:32].
  • Von Tunzelmann:

    “If you’re going to survive in the modern media environment, you need to be able to think critically, you need to be able to assess sources, you need to be able to read comparatively...Forget it. No, actually do history or English or humanity, learn to think.” [33:04]

5. Interview: Lt General Sir Barney White-Spunner — Lessons From Five Armies That Shaped Europe

[34:14–40:04]

• Military History Relevance:
  • White-Spunner stresses soldiers routinely draw on historical lessons.

    “Most soldiers do, because...there’s not that much new in the military world” [34:14].

• Lessons From the Past:
  • Five "enduring lessons" identified for contemporary defence:
    1. Professional Corps: A standing, trained, equipped army remains essential.
    2. Societal Involvement: Defence must be a national, not just military, enterprise, referencing the Prussian model [35:37].
    3. National Service?: Opposes mass boot-camp conscription, but supports systems where civilians with key skills back up military needs (e.g., NHS-medical reserves in the UK) [37:12].
    4. Flexibility: Nations must be able to call on reserve expertise—linguists, cyber, medics, etc.
    5. Challenging Orthodoxy: Encourages questioning military conventions, quoting Basil Liddell Hart:

    “The only thing harder than getting a new one idea into a military mind is getting an old idea out.” [38:32]

• Modernity vs. Tradition:
  • Politics often lags military thinking; broader citizen engagement with defence is necessary, but hard to sell democratically [38:52].
• Memorable Closing:

  “Is the way we’re doing things at the moment the right way? Is there a better way?...No point having a debate about militaries whereby you sort of ignore the cost.” [38:52]

Notable Quotes Collection

• “You really are taking this for granted and you have no idea what you need to do to turn this around.” (Alex von Tunzelmann, [13:06])
• “What leading Tories are saying now would be absolutely inconceivable to have heard from Tories even 15 or 20 years ago.” (Robin Lustig, [19:15])
• “Don’t wrestle in mud with a pig. You’ll both get filthy and the pig doesn’t care.” (Anonymous, quoted by Andrew Muller, [18:22])
• “When you embrace those [far-right] terms, you don’t immunise yourselves...what you do is just push it further and further right.” (Alex von Tunzelmann, [17:50])
• “The first thing any coup leader does is seize the radio station." (Robin Lustig, [21:41])
• “The words optimism and Middle east do not sit happily together in a single sentence.” (Robin Lustig, [08:43])
• "If you’re going to survive in the modern media environment, you need to be able to think critically..." (Alex von Tunzelmann, [33:04])
• “Most soldiers do [draw on military history], because...there's not that much new in the military world.” (Barney White-Spunner, [34:14])

Timestamps for Key Segments

• 00:00–03:40: Panel introductions, book plugs, and light banter
• 04:00–11:15: Two years post October 7 in Israel and Gaza
• 11:16–21:01: Centre-right malaise in the UK, Europe, and Western democracies
• 21:01–26:18: US media, Barry Weiss at CBS, and the new censorship
• 26:18–33:18: Decline of reading and the challenge of teaching literature
• 34:14–40:04: Interview with Lt General Sir Barney White-Spunner on military history’s lessons

Tone and Style

Wit, skepticism, and incisive critique mark the episode’s tone. Muller’s dry humor leads lively exchanges, with Lustig’s and von Tunzelmann’s deep expertise grounding the commentary. The discussion is candid, often unsparing in its assessment of both British and global political shifts.

Summary

This episode of The Monocle Daily delivers a sharp, insightful, and sometimes irreverent look at the decline of establishment centre-right parties, the peril of chasing further-right populist trends, ruptures in media and education, and the perennial value of historical perspective—even, or especially, in times of rapid change. Armed with memorable turns of phrase and a willingness to ask uncomfortable questions, the panel calls for a return to critical thinking, civic engagement, and ethical clarity—making for essential listening in a year of political uncertainties.