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You're listening to the Monocle Daily, first broadcast on 24 June 2026 on Monaco Radio.
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Vladimir Putin says he's open to talks if Ukraine would just knock it off with the attacks on oil refineries. France and the rest of Europe in a heat wave that sparks an age old conversation about air conditioners. And Monocle's annual quality of life survey is out. Now we'll reveal the winning city and ask our guests whether they agree. I'm Chris Chermak. The Monocle Daily starts now. Hello and welcome to the Monocle Daily. Coming to you from our studios here at Midori House in London. I'm Chris Chermack. My guests Charles Hecker and Marie Leconte will discuss the day's big stories. And we'll hear from our team at the annual Swedish summer political gabfest in Almedalen. And stay tuned. All that and more coming up right here on the Monocle Daily. This is the Monocle Daily. I'm joined today by Charles Hecker, political risk and Russia analyst and Marie Leconte, political journalist and author. Hello to you both.
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A
Hi.
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C
Good evening.
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B
How are we feeling? Do we want to do a show in this heat?
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A
Not particularly, but I'm here now so we might as well.
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B
We might as well.
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C
We've made it in the air conditioned comfort of Studio one. I'll stay here as as I can until you throw me out.
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B
Well, also, I mean you both like sort of braved these sweltering conditions to even get here. So you might as well now that you've arrived. I mean, Marie, I know this was a bit of a struggle, but are you happy to be here now? Will you leave again? Would you like to stay?
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A
No. So I am actually going to claim squatters rights on Midori House. So it's been so fun, you know. I hope you like seeing me every single day for the rest of your lives because this is now my home.
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B
Charles, would you like to join us here? We're having a blast.
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A
There's space for everyone.
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C
I'm staying here until you kick me out.
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B
Okay, well, we will have more on all of that hot weather discussion a little bit later in the show and more from you both in a moment too. But first of all, let's cross over to Almadealen in Sweden where the regular host of this show, Andrew Muller, is standing by. Hello, Andrew.
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D
Hi, Chris. It's Andrew Muller here with the Monocle Radio team in our little pop up hutch on Donnersgaten in Visby, the heart of Almadalen, Sweden's annual political jamboree. As listeners will already be aware, we have been broadcasting the daily out of here. We did that yesterday, we will do it again tomorrow. And we have been catching up with all kinds of guests for all of our new shows and for this Saturday's edition of the Foreign Desk. Well, a little while earlier, me and Monocle's head of radio, Tom Edwards, spoke to Eric Winter. He is the CEO of Nordic Region and head of corporate and Institutional banking at BNP Paribus. He has some very firm ideas on how the Nordic nations could cooperate even more closely, perhaps even to the extent of becoming just the one Nordic nation. But first of all, Tom asked him what the value in coming to Alma Dalen was for him.
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E
I also seen it sort of from inside out, outside in, and I lived in UK for 22 years and when I came back to the Nordics, one of the first things I wanted to sort of dip my toes into was Almerdalen, because you have the best of Nordics. You have, you can have the Prime Minister or the Archbishop walking on the street. You have obviously people from the press, PR people, etc. And what also happened the last 10 years or so is that there are much more people from the business side where I'm from. So it's a great mixture between politics, the best of liberal democracies, where you have the people you elect to government walking on the streets, mixing up with. With journalists and business people. It's like a smorgasbord. You have to really select the. I don't know if you ever had a smorgasbos, but I'm sure you have. Oh yes, I always go for the oblique roe and the salmon and maybe skip some of the simple stuff. So. And I think here you can get overwhelmed because there's so much stuff. So I think like you guys, you have your thing here, you do that, you get people here and then you select a few things from the. From the dishes.
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D
One particular thing I did want to select from the veritable smorgasbord of things we could ask you, Eric, is that reading back through a few things you've written over the years, and I don't know where you are on this now, but you were at one point making the case for a Nordic Union, that is Denmark, Norway, Sweden, Finland, putting aside their rivalries and becoming a single country, though I can't begin to imagine the arguments over where the capital would be. Is this something you still favor?
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E
Yes, a lot. And I'm increasingly convinced that it's the way to go. And I mean it is actually happening to some extent. All the Nordic countries are now members of NATO, for instance, thanks to Mr. Putin. But again, I have the inside out outside perspectives of being living abroad in UK and us, you see that. Yes, we have. You can take A snaps before 12 o' clock in Copenhagen. You can't do that in Sweden. I think in some places you talk about if the snooze should be white or brown. Very small subtleties and differences. It's like a family, brothers and sisters, that there's a fundamental love and the fundamental similar values. And they are much more important now because our region, or I'd say all the Western democracies are under threat from a military point of view, from an economical point of view. I mean growth is going nowhere compared to China and us. Lastly, and mainly all our values are under trap. So I think for Europe to be able, and I see uk, we miss you a lot from eu. For Europe to be strong, you need a very strong Nordic community and it's more important than ever.
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F
Can I ask whether that approach also kind of works in, in the world of finance and banking, if we go into the sort of trade discussion because presumably in geopolitics you have the rise of nativism, you have increasing self interest and you have lots of narratives that are driving people further apart by design to serve populists and so forth. If we come back to something like finance again, do you find you can navigate the regulatory environment, these attendant pressures to ensure that you're serving your customers, your clients, your partners well enough? Or do the same problems that are affecting the political discourse actually also bleed into the financial challenges that you're trying to wrestle with each day?
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E
Absolutely. And it's a good question. I mean, I'm sure you read the Draghi report. So Mario Draghi said that there are approximately 300 things that Europe needs to fix in order to be competitive and not turn up as a museum versus China and US, by the way, of those 300 points we Europe has executed on, on six or seven, it's a start. It's a start.
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F
That's a kind of UK level of delivery.
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E
No, we miss uk. So six or seven. One of the key points is the savings and capital markets union. Talking about finance, the report mentions Sweden I think 27 times and the Nordics more than 30 times. So onto your question, the recipe that Europe needs more of you already find here. So we own our housing, we own our pension, we had our pension reform ages ago. And everyone owns equities. So we have a very equity related market. So for instance, Nasdaq's European headquarters are in Stockholm. 50% of all IPOs, new listings last year was done on the Stockholm Stock Exchange. So a lot of the stuff that Nordics are already doing is exactly what Europe needs to do. And that's also one of my points, why today we are not even at the G20. Together, all the five, including Iceland, we are the 10th largest economy from a GDP point of view. Noria's investment management fund owns 2 1/2% of all global equities. If you put together all the Nordic pension funds, insurance companies, we own between 4 and 5% of all global equities, 28 million people. So we need to get a seat at the table, particularly now also when UK is away from the table, because you, you have a sort of quite market liberal, you know, you believe in a decent society, no one should be on the streets. But at the same time it's good to have entrepreneurships and business and London has been a perfect place for that. Yes, a lot of the stuff we see in the Nordics today is exactly what we need to put on the European table. But we need to act as one unit. Not Even at the G20 today, where we have countries like Argentina and so on, but no Nordic countries.
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D
That is a point that I think you've also made before in things you've written. And it's a nicely counterintuitive one, which I did want to explore a bit further. Everybody, I think, outside the Nordics has this received wisdom that these countries, and perhaps especially Sweden, these cuddly socialist utopias, Your case is that the idea of the Nordics as essentially socialist is somewhat oversold, Is that right?
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E
Completely. To be honest, we are a better place than Monaco, minus the weather. But now I would say if you look, the weather is 40 plus there. Nordics is even going to win on the weather and environment. But we have, if you look at Sweden, where we are now, no gift tax, no inheritance tax, no wealth tax. It's a tax Paradise. We have $87 billionaires here. That's why the H and M family, the Spotify founders, they still live here because it's actually a really, really good environment for entrepreneurs.
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F
What would make a success? Is it a pronouncement from one of the leaders just across there in the park? They speak each day. Obviously they're in general election mode here in Sweden. But what would you like to hear that would give you, I don't know, Even more confidence. You seem pretty bullish about things anyway, but give you more confidence or reassure you that actually some of these trends that we've just talked around can be moved in the right direction.
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E
The trend is our friend. I mean, when I started writing these articles about it more from a personal point of view, everyone thought it's complete utopia. But today we are members of NATO. I mean, Wallenberg guys now are putting together a forum in Gothenburg after the summer on where all the Nordic C Suite is gathering. See, how can we ease regulation, how can we increase competitiveness, what are we doing with energy and AI, the two big sort of relative failures for Europe compared to US and China. So I think politicians should just agree and make it easier and just get their hands dirty and sort of get on with it rather than just talk.
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D
That was me and Tom Edwards speaking to Eric Winter, the CEO Nordic Region and head of corporate and institutional banking at BNP Paribus here at Monocle's pop up studio at Al Madalen in Visby on Gotland. We will be doing the entire daily out of here tomorrow. That's Thursday. And don't forget to tune in to the foreign desk on Saturday, which will be a Sweden Special recorded right here at Al Madalen.
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B
Andrew Muller, thank you very much for all of that and we do look forward to your next live show from Al Madalen tomorrow. Meanwhile, still with me here at Midori House are Charles Hecker and Marie Leconte. And we're going to move on to Ukraine now, which, if deployed diplomacy was working the way it should these days, would be elated by the news that Russian President Vladimir Putin is ready to resume peace talks. Putin's comment comes as Ukraine has made serious inroads into Russian society energy in the past few weeks with strikes on its energy sector. But even so, the question, as always, is whether Putin is serious about talks and also who should mediate if any talks were to take place. Charles, I'll start with you on this just to get a picture of inside Russia, if you're kind of able to do some of that. How serious is our understanding of the situation in Russia right now?
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C
So, first of all, just in response to your introduction of the topic, diplomacy is not working as it's meant to be. And so we're going to have to take that as our point of departure. Things are unpleasant in Russia at the moment. This is particularly the case if you want to fill your car or your truck or any other sort of vehicle with petrol at the station. It is outrageously expensive and getting increased, increasingly expensive almost by the day, and that is if it's available. The rationing started outside the main cities, sort of in the hinterlands, as all bad things do in Russia, State subsidies have not been helping very much. The situation is particularly bad in Crimea. But now Moscow and St Petersburg, which are cities that the Kremlin takes pains not to inconvenience very much because these are the seats of the elite. It's hard to get petrol in Moscow and St Petersburg. So you know that on top of the periodic mobile Internet outages, that on top of the inconveniences at airports when there are suspicions of upcoming Ukrainian drone strikes and what's happening to everybody's holiday plans for the summer, the screws are turning a little bit, thanks to Ukraine's rather successful and penetrating drone campaign against Russia and its energy infrastructure.
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B
Marie, I mean, when we look at this, even if it's hard to know, as always, whether Putin's offer of talks is a ploy or something more serious, does it, at the very least, show us that Ukraine is gaining the upper hand right now?
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A
I think it's certainly showing that something is kind of shifting, I think, in Russia. And it was really interesting that Putin said that the Russian government should take additional measures to offset the consequences of the strikes, the Ukrainian strikes on Russian territory, which means that he was clearly trying to distance himself in any way he could to what is going on. He clearly no longer wants this to be seen as his own war, which, again, is probably not even quite the beginning of the end yet, but maybe the end of something, the beginning of some new stage. So I'm not convinced that any negotiations right now would lead to the end of the war in any way. But certainly, I think something is kind of changing in Russia.
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B
I mean, to that point, Charles, could Putin even himself end this war? I mean, if we can get to that kind of question, or would actually ending this war have to be agreed, frankly, by someone else, given how much he's owned this?
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C
Well, for the time being, the authority singlehandedly end this war rests entirely with Putin. He will continue to pursue this war for as long as he wants. And going back to sort of the failure of diplomacy to convince him otherwise. He is the sole decision maker in Russia when it comes to the ongoing prosecution of this war. So it's entirely up to him. But that's why I think that there's something incredibly disingenuous about this recent announcement where he says, well, you know, we're ready to talk peace because he mentioned that he wanted these peace negotiations to follow the Istanbul format, which refers to negotiations in 2025. There were three rounds of negotiations in Istanbul led by a very sort of low ranking delegation of Russian aides to President Putin, where the primary agreement there was a hostage swap and a swap of military prisoners. And beyond that, the talks in Istanbul, all three rounds ran aground on the same issues that every peace initiative from the very beginning of the war has run aground on, and that is the disposition of Russian and Ukrainian troops and the disposition of all of the land, including that land which isn't yet under control by Russia. Moreover, the Istanbul round included Russian imposed, or the suggestion of Russian imposed limitations on the Ukrainian military, which is an incursion into sort of Ukrainian sovereignty that nobody liked. I think that this is, is another sort of scarecrow put out there by Putin that really means very, very little.
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B
Marie, I wonder when you hear Charles talking there about the Istanbul format and so on. One thing that's of course striking through most of this is that Europe hasn't really been at the table for these talks. There is now a discussion happening in Europe at least about whether one should even engage Russia, who should engage Russia. That became a huge spat kind of a couple of weeks ago. What's your sense of that? Is it time for European leaders to talk to Vladimir Putin and others in Russia in order to bring this to some sort of end?
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A
I think it's still just about time to kind of watch and see what happens. Because another thing I found quite interesting is the fact that Russia is now thinking that actually maybe Trump is not the most reliable of allies. And we've had Russia complaining about the US Failing to deliver, apparently on the understandings they'd had Putin and Trump when they met in Alaska last year. So I think if I were European leaders, I would probably let them stew a little bit more and think actually, you know, you guys tried to essentially cut Europe off entirely and say, we're going to sort this out basically between Russia and the US that's not really going to work because that's not how Trump works. That's never been how Trump works, you know, and yet somehow everyone keeps thinking, but I'll be the one, you know, I'll be the one who turns Donald Trump into a reliable ally. So I think I would personally wait a tiny bit longer, see what comes out of that, see what Trump ends up doing as well on that front, and then perhaps again try to come onto the stage again.
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B
Charles, maybe a final word on that. What is Trump going to do get in his mind. I'm sure you know it well by now, but I mean, we have, you know, supposedly ended or at least have a ceasefire in Iran. Could Trump turn his attention back to this now or has he lost interest?
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D
Oof.
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C
What was that about a ceasefire in Iran? No, I think that there is very little bandwidth in the White House right now for Russia and Ukraine, and I think that the window is closing for that. I think Iran is going to be an open, ongoing soar over the course of the summer. And then once we're out of the summer, Washington goes fully into midterms mode. And I think that bandwidth is going to be a precious commodity, particularly on the international front. But what's interesting actually is that the fortunes of the war only began to change really when the United States started to disengage. This is when Ukraine really started to kind of outperform expectations. And United States role in diplomacy on this particular topic was not productive. I think. Let them be busy with something else. Leave space for perhaps another interlocutor of some description to enter into this. And maybe less is more when it comes to the US in these negotiations.
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B
Well, let's move on to a sort of related topic because while Zelenskyy and Putin debate whether to start talking inside the Czech Republic or Czechia, the country's president and prime minister are in a cold war of their own over who gets to participate at NATO's next summit in Ankara. President Pavel is bringing Prime Minister Babi to court over the matter, Constitutional Court saying that he has the right to be an Ankara after Babish proclaimed that he would be the one to lead his country's delegation. Marie, this is such a bizarre dispute and goes beyond merely, I think, getting to, you know, the photo op with all the leaders at the NATO summit. It is about policy disagreements between these leaders on defense spending, support for Ukraine, as we were just talking about. But nonetheless, do you hear a story like this and just kind of throw up your hands and say, what the heck, just get along, guys?
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A
Well, I think the problem is, you know, that there is a lot of bad blood between Pavlov and Babish. Like they stood against each other in the last election. So they are definitely, you know, they stand on very different policy platforms where there's a lot clearly of personal animosity. But no, weirdly, it reminds me, and I think that's probably my French bias, but of the cohabitation when Chirac was president, Jospard was prime minister. And most of the time that Worked well until it did not. So, no, I think it's something we're seeing in a few countries at the moment as well, I think, because, you know, in Poland, obviously we do also have Tusk trying his best, while, you know, there's the other side, the other lot kind of trying to tie his hands behind his back. So it kind of feels like the fashion at the moment of having these two kind of bits of power fighting. Well, no, it's not dignified. Although, as you mentioned, it is still about serious stuff. It's about NATO spending, it's about defence spending and the fact that, you know, obviously Pavel used to be an army general. He cares very much about defence. And Babish is a slightly odd, I would say, right wing populist who'd just rather cut all that money out.
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B
A slightly odd populist. I mean, Charles, what is the solution at this point? Should NATO get involved? Secretary General, can he. I was wondering if he could just. Sometimes they do that thing of inviting Pavel, you know, separately, give him some imaginary title. We need him there as a wonderful, you know, observer and need his insights or just, I don't know, talk to them both like a school principal and
- [21:25]
C
say, well, Pavel has precedent on his side because the President of Czechia has attended the last 19 out of 20 NATO meetings. And so he's the one who by all rights should be going, I guess, NATO. This is in NATO's interest to sort this out and to have both of them there at least, so that the two of them can kind of cancel each other out. Because there are sort of two issues at stake here. And one is that if Babish has his way, the Czech Republic or Czechia will sort of become. Become the successor to Hungary's naysaying role in NATO, particularly with regards to Ukraine. And I suppose it is in NATO's interest to prevent Czechia from becoming the new Hungary in that respect. And so, you know, these discussions about, well, one will come for lunch and the other one will come for dinner or one will sort of, you know, one will stay in the really nice hotel and the other one will stay in a really bad hotel.
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B
Maybe Pavel offered to pay his own way.
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D
Right, okay.
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C
Yeah, we'll see where the credit card receipts wind up in the end.
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F
But.
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C
But it's in their interest. The other thing that they probably have to sort of stop as quickly as they can is this idea, as you've both suggested, that the Czech Republic wants to spend less money than is asked of them when it comes to defense and this comes on the heels of Spain sort of turning to NATO and say, we're going to spend as much or as little as we want, thank you very much, leave us out of it. And the more countries that you have doing that, the less rosy it looks for European defense in the absence of the American umbrella. So NATO probably should put its foot down on something.
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B
Something. Marie, you did bring up France. And so I was curious. When you look at this dispute from a French prism, you mentioned that there have been these arguments before, but was it a little clear in France in terms of who does what? Because that's also what this kind of comes down to, right? Like who's in charge of foreign policy, who's in charge of domestic affairs. That always seemed a little clearer in France, or not always, I think it did.
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A
So I'm going to level with you. I was a child during the cohabitation, so I feel like my grasp on what was going on exactly at the time is slightly, you know, just a bit too much time in the playground in those years. But, but no, I mean, I do think we have, you know, if there's one thing France has, it's the constitution that is incredibly clear about absolutely everything. I think France, you know, does really pride itself on writing absolutely everything down if it can get away with it. So I do think in that respect, you know, that that left a bit less kind of gray area, I would say, in terms of governing.
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B
Well, we will of course have an election where, where this could all come up once again in France. We won't get that. We won't get into that. But Charles, I mean, you were mentioning some of this, but it does, I guess this does beg a serious question too, that if there are cracks within a country like this, and Marie mentioned Poland as well, similar things happening, then what hope do 31 NATO countries really have to agree on something like defense spending in Ankara?
- [24:20]
C
Well, you might just sort of slightly rephrase the question. And that is to say that if there was absolutely complete peace and harmony in Poland and total sort of political love in Czechia, Dana would still have its share of problems. And that is it's got somebody on the other side of the Atlantic who's threatening to pull the plug on the entire alliance from, you know, from the very get go. So none of this looks good. Whether it's sort of EU foreign policy and EU military policy as reflected in or contributing to NATO, these sorts of alliances are bumptious. Add on top of that, the European defense industry, which has been a little bit slow in getting its turbines turning and pumping out equipment for Ukraine or for its own militaries. Look at the state of the UK military at the moment. There are enough problems among all NATO members without all of this.
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B
Marie, just a final word on this. I mean, the other way to look at it, it just struck me is are we getting more petty in our politics at this point as we get kind of more partisan in our disagreements?
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D
Oh,
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A
that's a weirdly big question, isn't it? I mean, probably. And it does feel like everyone's slightly run out of, of patience. I think that that's maybe the problem of, you know, it feels like, you know, a couple in the months before breaking up where every tiny little thing suddenly like, feels like the most annoying thing in the world. I think everyone's kind of slightly at that stage at the moment because politics has been so mad, you know, nationally, in many countries and internationally for so long.
- [25:53]
B
Well, speaking of that, that is a kind of a good segue because in a heat wave it is also easy to lose patience. And we're going to talk about that next because a heat wave is rolling across Europe at the moment. And while other parts of the world that face far higher temperature doining their eyes, the situation has become pretty serious on a continent that does not have much air conditioning. Here in the uk, thousands of schools have been closed for the afternoon as we face the warmest June day on record. In France, the situation has become especially serious and something of an election issue with politicians of all stripes debating how they would better keep the country cool. Air conditioners on one side of the debate, but so too is a proposal from the Greens, I understand, for so called heat days off work. Marie, this is hardly the first time we've faced high temperatures in France or elsewhere. But is it prompting more of a drum roll, heated debate?
- [26:47]
A
No, but I do think it is, it is really, really striking. I think it's even more striking that the kind of heat waves in France perhaps than in Britain, which is saying something because I, you know, I come from Nantes, which is a city just below Brittany, which famously always had an incredibly temperate climate. It now I think, was it today or yesterday it reached over 40? I think it's gonna be 41 or 42 now when, when I was a child, which, which is. Yeah, I mean, a while back, but still, you know, 27 felt like a massive heat wave. Like we had essentially British weather and we are now somehow at the center and quite often, I think warmer than the south of France. So I do think It's. It has got especially bad very, very quickly. So it's not. It's not just a case of it's kind of happening every year now. I think there's really a sense, I think in a lot of places in France, especially again, away from the south, where the south is kind of used to it to some extent, that actually things are getting worse year on year on year. So I think there's a sense of urgency that is making the debate feel more fiery. Again, no pun intended.
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B
Well, just to follow that up there, Marie, I mean, do you get the sense, therefore, when you look at the French debate, that this is a place that government should now get involved? Is there something that Paris, the Elysee and others should be doing about it?
- [27:55]
A
Oh, absolutely. And it actually really frustrates me to see that, you know, the party actually leading the way and saying we do need to have aircon everywhere because people are dying is somehow the far right. You know, Marine Le Pen is the one that has been, you know, the person who has been the most vocal on the this. And, you know, you've had mostly the left saying we need to plant more trees and make cities more heat resilient, which I don't disagree at all. I think that's a brilliant idea. But people are dying right now. You know, old people, vulnerable people are dying in cities right now. So I think that the government should actually be doing something. And there should be a way, I think, for Macron to, you know, technically, as someone who once upon a time used to pride himself on kind of transcending left and right, etcetera, there's going to be something he could say kind of about unleashing technology green something I don't really know. You know, I'm not. I'm not president of France. It's above my pay grade, but it feels like the sort of thing, once upon a time, when his star was shining a bit more, he could have been quite good on, and yet he's not really anywhere, Charles.
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B
I mean, we come from a place that is used to air conditioning, has had it for a long time in the United States. I guess that kind of happened organically over there, just because it was always hot in summers. But, I mean, what's your take on this? Should governments in Europe be offering incentives, say, for air conditioners?
- [29:08]
C
You know, I come at this from sort of an emotional standpoint and also from a scientific standpoint, and that is that, you know, air conditioning is man's triumph over nature. And, you know, I mean, when you think about it in the United States. I mean, no one would live in Florida without air conditioning. No one would live in Southern California without air conditioning. Arizona, you know, the Sun Belt, Texas, Arizona, New Mexico, places that are now very, very important, commercial, industrial and dare I say it, sometimes cultural centers would not ex. Without air conditioning. And so, you know, yes, I think that I agree completely with Marie. This is a public health concern. And if there are rules and regulations that say in public facilities and in private facilities and in offices and places like that, there is a minimum temperature below which you cannot go, otherwise it's a health hazard or it's uncomfortable, so turn on the heat. I think it is completely logical and also very good health and public health policy to say there is a maximum temperature that should not be exceeded. And if we're getting close to that, switch on the ac.
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B
Switch on the ac or have a heat day, Marie. Although that said, I have to say I'm kind of against that, if only because I'm sitting here in this wonderful Monocle office where we have ac. So I'd be much worse off at home on a heat day.
- [30:28]
A
And I don't really see how heat days, yeah, really work because most people, again, surely that would mean arguing for individuals to have air con, because it's not. The problem is when it's very, very hot and you're for any reason vulnerable to the heat, you're not going to be, you know, obviously not working would make things a bit better. But, you know, thinking of young parents, for example, I think taking care of a two year old in a very, very warm flat would not, you wouldn't go, oh, thank God, the government's going to, you know, decided to give me this heat day where I have to entertain my toddler when it's 37 degrees inside my flat.
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B
Which is something that many parents have had to face actually here in the UK this week as kids were sent home from school.
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C
Charles, you know, I'm following government guidelines and sort of keeping my shades down and then opening my windows in the evening. I have one. The fan that I have in my flat was recently described by a visitor as measly, which I sort of took offense at. And I may have to go out and buy a new fan just so that I can regain my self respect. But you know, these sort of patchwork options of planting more trees and encouraging green space. Yes, fantastic ideas, but they're not going to protect you from 35 to 40 degree heat.
- [31:40]
B
Well, finally on today's show, Monocle's annual quality of Life survey is out today. Our index of the top cities around the world to live in. It is part of the magazine's July, August Summer Bonanza issue, which is on newsstands this week and earlier. Our own editorial director and chairman Tyler Brulee described the survey in an interview with CNN's Becky Anderson. We looked at two things this year. Are cities ambitious, but are they joyous? And I say sort of joyous.
- [32:08]
C
That means as you said at the
- [32:09]
B
opening, you know, can you get a drink after 10, can you get a, you know, you get a good drink
- [32:13]
C
at one o' clock in the morning,
- [32:14]
E
can you go out and have a
- [32:15]
B
fantastic run, a swim at the start of the day? All of those things were sort of factors.
- [32:19]
C
And of course that means vibrant neighborhoods and it means great infrastructure to get between them.
- [32:23]
B
It means a critical mass that you're surrounded, of course, by people who are challenging, like minded, et cetera.
- [32:29]
C
That's all part of it.
- [32:30]
B
And that's why Tokyo came out number
- [32:31]
D
one this this year.
- [32:33]
B
Tyler Brulee there spoiling the beans on CNN earlier today. The winner of our annual ranking this year is Tokyo and what we wanted to do on this show is bring our guests in on the fun. CHARLES Marie, obviously Monaco's rankings are completely infallible, not to be questioned, but did want to get a sense of your impressions of these cities where you've been among the, say, top 10 and what you think is of them.
- [32:58]
A
MARIE I will be controversial here and say that Vienna and Oslo are in the list. I've been to both of them and I disliked both of them and I would probably not go back. But you know, but my thing is that actually I just found them quite boring. But I guess maybe that's the problem of, you know, it's actually cities which are not amazing as tourists, but if you live there and you get to know people in the right spots, etc, then they become amazing. They're not immediately flashy is what I would say if I were being fair minded. But no, I just think they suck.
- [33:26]
B
Tell us what you really think. Marie but that is a very good point because I will agree with that because one of the cities that often, although not current, I believe in the top 10 that I often relate to is Frankfurt in Germany. Not a place to visit, but often ranks quite high in its quality of life for schools, living conditions, all of that kind of stuff.
- [33:47]
A
And briefly, I would say as well, there's you can find the opposite quite frequently. So New York, I used to absolutely love visiting there and then I spent two months there a few years ago. I was just exhausted by the end. I think living in New York was just so tiring.
- [33:58]
B
It's absolutely exhausting.
- [34:00]
C
Charles. So all of the things aside for just a moment, I feel like I have to rush to the defense of Oslo. I don't know Vienna very well. I've been a couple of times on business trips and so it seems perfectly pleasant to me. I feel like I know Oslo quite well and Norway pretty well also. And the standard of living, the quality of life, the amount of the quality and the ubiquitousness of first class world beating public services available in Oslo is phenomenal. Everything from genuinely the city city's new public library to the thought that they put into food and design and green space, frankly. And right now the temperature is gorgeous and manageable and perfect in Oslo.
- [34:50]
B
Oh, we're not gonna go there.
- [34:51]
C
No, seriously. I think that Norway is the wealthiest country in the world and that is reflected, I think, adequately and very generously in Oslo. Other than that, Tokyo is the best city in the world. If someone grabbed me on my way out of the studio today and said, you must now forever live in Tokyo. You have no choice. I would gladly pack my bags and head straight for the airport.
- [35:16]
B
Well, Charles, if you've defended Oslo, then I have to come to Vienna's defense because, Marie, I don't know what you waited if you realize what you waded in here into, because I am half Austrian myself and my parents.
- [35:27]
A
I'm so sorry to hear that.
- [35:28]
B
Vienna. But to that point I think, yes, it is. Well, I think it's a pretty good place as a tourist city as well, I would argue.
- [35:38]
A
I just found it quite sterile, I guess.
- [35:40]
B
I really like Budapest.
- [35:41]
A
I think Budapest is the sexier Vienna. No offense.
- [35:45]
B
Ooh. Okay, I'm not gonna.
- [35:48]
C
What was it? What was the.
- [35:49]
B
My father has a Hungarian friend that he constantly goes back and forth with. On exactly this point, the mayor of
- [35:55]
C
Berlin tried to spin on that because one not the current mayor, I don't think he was the one that said, you know, Berlin is poor, but sex. And he was right. And, you know, he was trying to sort of make lemonade out of some sort of municipal lemons that he was having to deal with. Sexy gets you so far, but it doesn't take you all the way.
- [36:15]
B
I think that's as good a point to end as any. Charles Hecker and Marie Le Conte, thank you very much for joining us. Monocle magazine's summer issue is out tomorrow and the Quality of life survey within it is live on our website right now. Now, if you want to compare notes, head over to monocle.com qol for that. That's all for this edition of the Monocle Daily. A big thanks to Charles Hecker and Marie Leconde, my panelists. Today's show was produced by Hassan Andersson and researched by Josevin Astra Nagla Gomez. Our sound engineer was Stef Changu. I'm Chris Chermak here in London. The Monocle Daily is back at the same time tomorrow. This time from Ahmad Almedalen in Sweden. Goodbye and thanks for listening.