The Monocle Daily
Episode: “Nicolás Maduro’s terrorist group designation and modern space woes”
Date: November 25, 2025
Host: Andrew Muller
Panelists: Lyn O’Donnell, Stephen DL
Special Segment: Interview with author David Marsh
Episode Overview
This episode of The Monocle Daily explores the geopolitics of Ukraine’s continuing war with Russia and the increasing unpredictability of U.S. policy under President Donald Trump. The panel also dissects Iran’s soft power rebranding campaign, controversial new U.S. refugee policies, and social trends in aviation etiquette. The episode concludes with an interview featuring author David Marsh on the future of the European Union in a fractured world.
Main Discussion Points and Insights
1. Ukraine War and U.S. Peace Proposals
- Trump’s “28-Point” Plan
- The panel discusses President Trump’s proposed peace deal for Ukraine, which sets a military personnel cap and includes stipulations Russia favors.
- Notable loophole: Ukraine agreeing to an 800,000 troop limit – still the sixth largest standing army in the world, much larger than any other European country (06:03).
- Stephen DL: Points out the plan, with elements like “no NATO membership” for Ukraine and limitations on foreign forces, reads as if “undoubtedly written in Moscow” (06:52).
- Fluctuations in Trump’s stance highlight Ukraine’s caution: “Whatever the last person says in his ear is what he'll rep.” (07:12)
- Europe’s Role and Dependence on the U.S.
- Lyn O’Donnell: Questions why Europe remains so dependent on U.S. security guarantees, arguing that Europe’s panic and lack of unity reveal underlying weakness. “America seems to believe, and therefore have by the power of its own belief, all the cards.” (09:20)
- Territorial Concessions and Putin’s Calculus
- Zelenskyy holds the line against ceding territory, but the panel questions the realism of this position. Stephen DL outlines Putin’s need for a face-saving “victory,” emphasizing the symbolic importance of Crimea and other contested regions written into the Russian constitution (10:59).
2. U.S. Refugee Policy Review and Domestic Immigration Tensions
- New Trump Review of Refugee Cases
- Trump’s administration set to re-examine the status of 230,000 refugees admitted under Biden, with an all-time low cap for new refugees focused mainly on white South Africans (13:03).
- Lyn O’Donnell: Describes the “transactional” deportation deals with the Taliban and details how the current climate terrorizes Afghan refugees and others at risk of return (14:00).
- Stephen DL: Emphasizes the irrationality of returning highly vetted people such as Russian dissidents and Afghans who aided allied troops, arguing “to send them back to their death… that is unbelievable” (15:41).
- Challenging the Anti-Immigrant Narrative
- Lyn notes the absence of counter-arguments from politicians and the economic self-harm when expelling low-wage workers critical to entire industries: “It's going to be a pretty lean Christmas…one of them is that there's nobody there to do the work.” (17:54)
3. Iran’s Soft Power Outreach and International Relations
- Tourism Slogan and Regional Diplomacy
- Iran’s new tourism campaign—“Majestic Iran: A Different Experience”—and efforts to rebrand are met with skepticism.
- Andrew Muller: Jokes about the incongruity of “majestic” as a descriptor for a theocracy hostile to its former monarchy (19:25).
- Panel consensus: Iran’s loss of traditional allies (Hamas, Houthis, Hezbollah distancing themselves) and lack of regional “soft power” leave it internationally isolated (22:03).
- Lyn O’Donnell: “All their mates are gone…they don’t have firepower left either…mostly hate being run by mullahs.” (22:40)
- Personal Travel Reflections
- Andrew recounts a visit to Tehran, highlighting friendly people—except for secret police—while Stephen firmly states Iran is not near the top of his travel list (23:56).
4. Aviation Etiquette and Pandemic Aftershocks
- Secretary of Transportation Advocates Dress Codes
- Trump’s Secretary of Transportation, Sean Duffy, launches a campaign for better dress and behavior on planes (25:02).
- Lyn O’Donnell and Stephen DL: Joke about pyjamas only being worn in business class and share personal travel anecdotes. Lyn once inadvertently enjoyed a luxury seat with a glass of champagne and pyjamas before being moved.
- Society’s Frayed Etiquette Post-Pandemic
- Stephen DL links rising unruliness to the pandemic’s lingering psychological effects: “We really have not properly considered the effects of the pandemic. Five years on, there is a lot more anger in society.” (27:47)
- Andrew describes witnessing poor dress and “hazard cone fights” at baggage claim, saying he’d “watch that as a sort of competitive sport.” (29:02)
- Debate over whether airlines should enforce minimum dress codes, with Lyn expressing skepticism about practical implementation (30:22).
Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments
On Ukraine’s Position:
- “Whatever the last person says in his ear is what he'll rep.” – Stephen DL (07:12)
- “America seems to believe, and therefore have by the power of its own belief, all the cards.” – Lyn O’Donnell (09:20)
- “He’s not afraid just of losing his position. He's afraid of losing his head…His biggest fear is not NATO, not America, not Europe…it's his own people.” – Stephen DL on Putin (12:03)
On Refugees:
- “Benefits…are very short term. And so people have to work and make their own way…so they are contributing to the economy…everybody is suffering.” – Lyn O’Donnell (17:54)
- “To send them back to their death, that is unbelievable.” – Stephen DL (15:41)
On Iran:
- “Iran, cosy, two words don’t seem to go together.” – Stephen DL (21:27)
- “All their mates are gone…they don’t really have any friends. Maybe the Qataris, Russia too.” – Lyn O’Donnell (22:03)
On Aviation Culture:
- “I did make a wrong turn once and actually got a seat and a glass of champagne and a set of pyjamas given to me. And when they came up and said, sorry, madam, this is not your seat, I picked up the champagne and the pyjamas and took them down…obviously.” – Lyn O’Donnell (26:49)
- “We really have not properly considered the effects of the pandemic. Five years on, there is a lot more anger in society.” – Stephen DL (27:47)
- “My question is, should airlines just enforce dress codes? Say these are the minimum standards we expect. If you don't meet them, you're not boarding.” – Andrew Muller (30:22)
Special Feature: Interview with David Marsh (32:18–38:28)
Topic: The EU’s Place in a Fractured World
- Marsh discusses European overconfidence after the Cold War and the challenges of unifying Germany.
- Expansion eastward brought prosperity—but also stoked Russian antagonism.
- America’s role: “America was always in charge of the European agenda all the years after the end of the Cold War. This is what pains me now that America is plainly going down a different path.” – David Marsh (33:57)
- Misreading Putin and the limits of Western optimism—highlights of a humorous yet telling exchange between EU President Juncker and Vladimir Putin over the historic claim to Ukraine.
Key Timestamps
- Ukraine peace plan discussion: 05:04 – 13:03
- U.S. refugee review and immigration: 13:03 – 19:25
- Iran’s soft power efforts: 19:25 – 24:34
- Air travel etiquette/debate: 24:34 – 31:28
- David Marsh interview: 32:18 – 38:28
Summary Tone & Language
- Conversational, with the panel often employing dry wit and irony.
- Panelists mix personal anecdotes with serious policy critique, maintaining both accessibility and insight.
This episode deftly blends geopolitical analysis, policy skepticism, and social commentary, offering listeners both global perspectives and relatable snapshots of current affairs.