Pragmatism vs politics at the China-EU summit

Summary

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The Monocle Daily: “Pragmatism vs Politics at the China-EU Summit”

Date: July 24, 2025
Host: Andrew Muller
Guests: Daniella Peled (Institute for War & Peace Reporting), Robin Brant (former BBC China/US correspondent)

Episode Overview

This episode of The Monocle Daily examines the increasingly fraught relationship between China and the European Union as their leaders meet for a markedly uncelebratory summit in Beijing. Through engaging panel discussion and insightful reporting, the episode covers the geopolitics shaping the China-EU dialogue, the limitations of the current approach to the Gaza conflict, the culture wars surrounding US universities under Trump’s second presidential term, and the adoption of brutal “996” work culture by tech startups in Silicon Valley. The episode closes with an evocative postcard from Washington, D.C., reflecting on American consumer culture amid economic pressures.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. China-EU Summit: Signs of Strained Diplomacy

[04:25]

• The summit in Beijing is meant to mark 50 years of diplomatic ties but instead underscores deepening fractures.

• Robin Brant points out the agenda was cut from two to one day, with no joint communiqué planned—a “legitimate but telling” signal of distrust.

  • “What they’re trying to do is find a bottom to the current, very difficult relationship… ensure it just doesn't get any worse.” ([04:25] Robin Brant)

• The only area of cooperation: climate change—both sides find some mutual interest, but even that is overshadowed by deeper trade disputes and strategic mistrust.

• China’s dominance in rare earth minerals and tech, plus its increasing assertiveness in the face of both Trump-era US policy and Brussels’ efforts to “rebalance” relations, create further obstacles.

• Daniela Peled highlights the shifting European approach, as the EU comes to terms with its relative weakness:

  • “[China and the EU's] aims and expectations and hopes and dreams are very different... China has stepped in where sanctions have bit into Russia’s economy.” ([06:34] Daniela Peled)

Key Quotes:

• “The relationship has got increasingly, far more fractious in recent years.” ([05:16] Robin Brant)
• “Ursula von der Leyen said [the relationship] had reached an inflection point and required rebalancing – phrases which some may associate with the moments immediately before their possessions were flung from an upstairs window.” ([03:24] Andrew Muller)

2. Ukraine, Russia, and Chinese Leverage

[06:34]

• EU hopes for Chinese mediation in Ukraine are, per the panel, a “long shot.” China benefits from the US and EU distraction.
• China’s support for Russia is mostly economic and technological, avoiding direct military supply but providing crucial “dual-use technology.”

3. Europe’s Newfound Confidence?

[09:37]

• Panel discusses whether the EU is growing into the role of an independent power (especially post-Ukraine invasion).
• Daniela: Optimism tempered by reality—Europe has moved toward greater self-reliance, but structural trade imbalances and lack of leverage persist.

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4. Gaza Ceasefire Talks: More Stalemate than Progress

[10:41]

• Rome hosts ceasefire negotiations led by US envoy Steve Witkoff. Sticking points include Israeli withdrawal and Hamas’ demands for permanent cessation.

• Robin Brant: Sees little cause for optimism, noting the Netanyahu government remains driven by domestic pressures above all.

  • “Public opinion seems to be fairly strongly behind the position... to continue to push into parts of Gaza and establish what for some is beginning to seem like a semi-permanent presence.” ([11:41] Robin Brant)

• Daniela Peled: Widespread exhaustion within Israeli society, with most citizens focused on the return of hostages. Media “let down” the public by failing to report fully on the situation in Gaza.

  • “There is a kind of binary reality. Netanyahu is not popular, but bizarrely enough, he’s remarkably strong.” ([15:45] Daniela Peled)

Memorable Moments:

• On the Knesset’s non-binding West Bank annexation resolution:

  • “These are political games ... throwing a bone to the far right.” ([14:38] Daniela Peled)

• Powerful Reflection:

  • “From a human perspective, there is a huge, huge gulf... the Palestinian issue has become just sort of a cipher for a much wider row... that’s not going to end—decades left.” ([17:59] Daniela Peled)

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5. US Campus Politics & Trump’s Crackdown

[21:23]

• Columbia University agrees to a $200M settlement with the Trump administration over allegations of insufficient action on campus antisemitism.

• Daniela Peled: The issue of antisemitism is “undoubtedly” real but has been “weaponized by those who want to see this as part of the culture wars.”

  • “Universities have not been brave enough to say, okay, these are the limits and we’re going to stick to them.” ([22:10] Daniela Peled)

• Robin Brant: Draws parallels to US media’s capitulation to legal and political pressure (e.g., CBS, ABC), highlighting a “worrying” trend of abandoning deeper values.

Notable Exchanges:

• On foreign student applications plummeting:
  • “If you have the capacity and the money... going to study in America is never going to be a budget option, is it?” ([26:12] Daniela Peled)

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6. Silicon Valley’s Embrace of “996” Culture

[27:28]

• Silicon Valley AI startups reportedly adopting China’s notorious “996” regimen: 9am–9pm, 6 days a week, 72 hours total.

• Robin Brant (from experience in China):

  • “It’s beautiful in terms of the coastline…” (lightening the discussion, but on “996”:)
  • “It’s brutal... the rise of ‘pingtang’—lying flat—[in China] is a real reaction to those decades of the 996 expectations.” ([28:11] Robin Brant)

• Daniela Peled:

  • “First of all, I thought AI was supposed to put us out of a job, not make us work harder!” ([30:01] Daniela Peled)
  • “It’s giving a cute acronym to working really, really hard... I can’t imagine it will catch on – God knows the Europeans don’t [work like that].” ([30:22] Daniela Peled)

Memorable Exchange:

• “This is nerds trying to appear macho, right?” ([30:18] Andrew Muller)

• Robin: “When it’s something that’s being imposed on you... I found it quite sad.” ([31:53] Robin Brant)

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7. Weekly Letter from Washington: The High Price of Life in America

[33:05]

• Charlotte MacDonald Gibson writes about the contrast between American consumer extravagance and the economic anxieties dominating daily life.

• From competitive hotdog eating contests to the strategizing required just to save money on groceries, she argues these are surface symptoms of a deeper struggle with affordability.

  • “Every social gathering I attend... a key topic is how to find food that is edible and affordable... it has taken me two years to realize life is only affordable if you devote significant time to [deals and coupons].” ([36:02] Charlotte MacDonald Gibson)

• Trump’s promise to “Make America Affordable Again” stands in contrast to persistently high costs and inflation.

• The letter closes with a scene of family “cultural assimilation”—competitive consumption of free pickle juice, echoing the episode’s wry tone.

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Notable Quotes & Moments

• “The only common ground they can really seem to find is ongoing and increased cooperation when it comes to climate change.”
  —Robin Brant ([04:54])

• “This is another niggling annoyance that the EU directly affects European security.”
  —Daniela Peled ([07:30])

• “Ursula von der Leyen used to talk years ago about de-risking... Now it’s about trying to rebalance.”
  —Robin Brant ([05:36])

• “I think the right to protest is important... But the issue has also been weaponized by those who want to see this as part of the culture wars. And, gosh, it works so well.”
  —Daniela Peled ([22:10])

• “If you have the capacity and the money and the ability to go there, I don’t think people, on the whole, are deterred…the brand is there.”
  —Daniela Peled ([26:12])

• “I thought AI was supposed to all put us out of a job, not make us work harder.”
  —Daniela Peled ([30:01])

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Timestamps for Important Segments

• China-EU Summit Breakdown: [04:25] – [10:41]
• Gaza Ceasefire & Israeli Politics: [10:41] – [20:19]
• US Campus Wars & University Settlements: [21:23] – [27:28]
• Silicon Valley '996' Culture: [27:28] – [32:50]
• Letter from Washington (consumer life): [33:05] – [38:31]

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Tone & Style

The episode is marked by sharp wit and lightly sardonic humor, even as it takes its subject matter seriously. Andrew Muller keeps the conversation brisk and irreverent, often poking fun at bureaucratic language or cultural quirks. Both panelists speak with candor, skepticism, and occasional exasperation, giving listeners a sophisticated yet relatable take on unfolding global events.

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Transcript

[A]

You're listening to the Monocle Daily, first broadcast on 24 July 2025 on Monocle Radio.

[B]

The EU China Summit in Beijing, where everyone is barely pretending they're happy to be another round of talks on Gaza, in Rome, where barely anyone is pretending they're trying. And would you work a 72 hour week every week? I'm Andrew Muller. The Monocle Daily starts. Hello, and welcome to the Monocle Daily. Coming to you from our studios here at Midori House in London. I'm Andrew Muller. My guests Daniela Peled and Robin Brandt will discuss the day's big stories and our regular letter from comes from Washington dc. Stay tuned. All that and more coming up right here on the Monocle Daily. This is the Monocle Daily. I'm Andrew Muller and I am joined today by Daniela Peled, managing editor of the Institute for War and Peace Reporting, and by Robyn Brad, former BBC presenter and correspondent in China and the United States. Hello to you both.

[A]

Hello.

[C]

Hello.

[B]

Daniella. You are, as listeners will know by now, I think, prone to somewhat obscurantist travel to places where you think there will be a rich bounty of local history museums and your sights have been turned upon. We don't really have a drum roll.

[A]

Sound effect, but Ipswich, Ipswich, Ipswich is my next destination. I am planning two nights in the. In the Premiere Inn, which is like the. I think probably the Ipswich's premiere.

[B]

Daniela, people in Ipswich may be listening to this. If you don't want to be met at the city limits by an angry mob with torches and pitchforks, I would watch your tone.

[A]

Oh, but I think you're just playing into the stereotype of people from Ipswich there. So that's equally offensive.

[B]

But I'm not planning to go.

[A]

Good point, good point. Yeah. I'm planning to go to all of the Ipswich local history museums. Perhaps I'll frolic a bit in Sutton Hoo, maybe go down the road to Kentwell Hall. The more obscure the better. This is my summer. This is my summer jaunt, so I'm looking forward to it very much.

[B]

If any of our listeners are in fact proprietors of local history museums in Ipswich or the surrounding area or the surrounding area, do please get in touch. We will direct you towards Daniella or vice versa. Robin, you, for your summer holidays are going somewhere, as I understand it, slightly less imaginative, if arguably warmer.

[C]

Yeah. Although we often holiday on the Essex coast, I might add, in defence of our own homeland. Now I'm off to Greece, to the Peloponnese, the first time I've been to the mainland for a family holiday. We can't wait. We're clawing our way towards the middle of August and a nice two week break. I won't mention where it is because I don't want anyone coming on board and sporting.

[B]

I want to go back to the Essex coast thing as a holiday destination though. Which part of it in particular?

[C]

Walton on the Nays, just up from Clacton. You know, I'm a North Londoner. My family historically have always holidayed in that part of the world. It's got a great little bit of. It's beautiful in terms of the coastline. Essex is a very rural county. We've been talking about Manningtree. It's kind of past in that part of estuary England as well. And you know, I sound like I'm from the Walton Tourist Board here for a short break. It's the best place to go.

[B]

If anybody from the Walton Tourist Board is listening and would like to engage in some sort of sponsorship arrangement with the program or perhaps just with Robyn, do please also drop us a line. We will begin in Beijing, which is hosting a semi commemorative. Who on earth would put a phrase like that in a radio script? Let's have another go at that semi commemorative summit. Noting 50 years of diplomatic ties between the People's Republic and the European Union, which might nevertheless be short on cheery toasts, hearty back slapping and General Bon Homi, Chinese President Xi Jinping described the relationship as mutually beneficial, the approximate diplomatic equivalent of writing best wishes on a birthday card. While European Commission Ursula von der Leyen said she believed the relationship had reached an inflection point and required rebalancing phrases which some listeners may associate with the moments immediately before their possessions were flung from an upstairs window. Robyn, how jolly an occasion does this sound?

[C]

Well, I think what they're trying to do is find a bottom to the current very difficult relationship, frankly, in an effort to ensure both between Brussels and Beijing that it frankly just doesn't get any worse. So what was supposed to be a two day event is now a one day event. There will be no communique. They're struggling to find common ground, as is very often the case. It's legitimate, but nonetheless it tells you how difficult relations are. The only common ground they can really seem to find is ongoing and increased cooperation when it comes to climate change. That's often something Keir Starmer in the UK talks about. That's often something that former President Joe Biden would talk about. That's the one thing in which many nations, many countries do want to and can find common ground with China as the world's biggest polluter and as the world's also biggest generator of sustainable energy and all the hardware that goes with it. So, look, this is a relationship that has really got increasingly, far more fractious in recent years. Ursula von der Leyen used to talk years ago about DE risking the EU's economies from supply chain threats of China. They've even moved beyond that language now. Now it's about trying to rebalance. But the problem for Brussels and the European Union as a whole, as China tries to pick off some of the more favorable member nations, like Serbia, is that it finds itself between Trump 2.0, and it finds itself between a fairly assertive Chinese government, actually, that has control of rare earth minerals and many other things that are absolutely crucial to the global economy and is chosen to be fair, assertive, fairly bold, fairly confident in the way it deals with Donald Trump's threats and increasingly with its trading relationship with the European Union.

[B]

Because Daniela, everybody attending this does understand, surely, that an amount of this is baked in. There is no way at all, is there, that there couldn't be tension or would be no tension between the European Union and China. They're quite different setups, to put it mildly.

[A]

Their aims and expectations and hopes and dreams are very different. And I think where the Europeans are thinking they could have some leverage is maybe on this is a really long shot, but on Ukraine, for instance, which China is still very much an ally of Russia, although it's very clear that it's sitting on the fence and it's being very fair and not taking one side or the other. I mean, that's obviously not the case. China has stepped in where, where the sanctions have bit into Russia's economy. And although it's not directly necessarily supplying arms and weapons, it's supplying masses and masses of dual use technology for Russia as well. So I think the Europeans are also getting a bit antsy about this and saying maybe you could sway things one way or another. But it's not particularly in China's interest too. I mean, the Ukraine war is quite a good distraction from China for the US and for others. But I think this is another niggling annoyance that the EU directly affects European security.

[B]

Robyn, when Ursula von der Leyen EC president, talks about an inflection point, and I don't get the impression that that language sort of spontaneously descended upon her, that's clearly a, a workshopped phrase, what does she mean?

[C]

Well, I think what she means is the years and years of Tolerance, as some of the European Union nations see it, of an unfair and a level, you know, a relationship that was, was imbalanced in terms of market access to mainland China for European, for European Union exporters and manufacturers and the terms under which the Chinese government was supporting its national team, so to speak, some of the biggest industrial players in its country and they were able to manufacture and export back to the EU on very, very different terms. And I think that's the root of this relationship which many have felt. It's a similar complaint that's come from Donald Trump and before him those in the Biden administration in terms of the rul of the game essentially and the rules of the game that define the trade relationship in terms of market access, in terms of fairness and in terms of support for those companies and their ability to export abroad. And that's what's at the very root of it. But I think the problem is the Chinese show absolutely no appetite and don't see themselves as being in a, in a weakened position whereby they are willing to cede any ground when it comes to both supply chain and when it comes to these growing behemoths like byd, their growing dominance in the EV and the battery and sustainable power sector.

[B]

Daniela, do we get any sense perhaps of a new confidence from the European Union, perhaps associated with the confidence it has had to find in the last year or so in terms of its relationship with the United States? It has had to start acting a bit more like a self contained superpower rather than any kind of American, American dependent. Is it possible that they have carried something of this into their relationship with China?

[A]

Well, I would like to think so, but Europe has been very late in the game of organizing itself and realizing that it actually has to be responsible for its own security. To a large, a large extent it has, I think you're right that it has sort of transformed its working in vis a vis Washington. But as Robin said, the task and the inequalities are just too unequal here. The trade deficit is vast and the rules of the game are not in any way the same.

[B]

Well, to Rome now, which is today hosting the latest attempt to bring about an end to the war in Gaza. Steve Witkoff, the Middle east envoy of US President Donald Trump, will meet officials from Israel and Qatar in a bid to rescue the plan currently on the table. A 60 day ceasefire fire, a much needed influx of aid to the Gaza Strip and the release of some further Israeli hostages. Among the sticking points are Hamas's demand for a complete withdrawal of the IDF from Gaza and for a timeline for a permanent cessation of hostilities. While Hamas may not appear to have much of a negotiating position, Israel is under increasing pressure, even from traditional allies, especially over the deaths of Palestinians, queuing for what little aid there is in Gaza. According to the UN's World Food Programme, more than 1,000 people have been killed in these circumstances in the last couple of months. Robyn, is there any reason to imagine these particular talks in Rome are going to get us anywhere?

[C]

Not as far as I can see, unfortunately. And the tragedy is, I think, domestically for the Netanyahu government, which still appears to teeter on the edge of its own kind of political survival, public opinion seems to be fairly strongly behind the position of Benjamin Netanyahu's government in terms of both its military tactics and I think, its desire to continue to push into parts of Gaza and establish what for some is beginning to seem like a semi permanent presence.

[B]

Daniela, is Israel, do you think, concerned at all by that escalating outrage? From all we have seen that that letter signed by several, actually a couple of dozen countries, many of which are normally thought of as Israel's traditional allies, not including the United States, obviously. But does that appear to have bothered Israel even in the slightest?

[A]

I think there is a real division within Israel about the attitudes to the war. I mean, overwhelmingly the public want it to end. They want the, their war aims they support is they want a return of the hostages and that's it, an end of. They're, they don't really buy in anymore to this idea that they're destroying Hamas militarily and so on and so forth. And there is this increasing awareness that Israel is. Israel's image on the world stage is being hugely affected, including by. From its allies and understanding that Donald Trump is not necessarily going to greenlight everything that Netanyahu wants. And also this idea that the, the. I mean, I think there is a very widespread view in Israel that Netanyahu, deeply unpopular as he is, is the cause of all these problems. However, the way the, the way that the coalition is set up, as long as he keeps the far right on side, then his government will continue for another, another year or more. The, the message is coming out from Israel is that ceasefire talks are looking more likely. They haven't withdrawn completely, although they sent their negotiators back home to discuss things more deeply. But the demands that the Israeli side are making, as you said, so for the army not to withdraw as far as they did, even the last round of the last ceasefire seem to be coming Very much from a right wing bloc who have this idea of resettlement and taking over Gaza. And at the same time then, and the annexation and settler violence in the west bank is continuing.

[B]

And we did see the Knesset passing that albeit non binding resolution this week endorsing the idea of annexing the West Bank.

[A]

Yeah, this is sort of, I think this is politics. These are political games that they're playing within the government to basically because just to sort of throw a bone to the far right. For many Israelis, this idea, the idea that the settlements in the West Bank, Gaza belong to a different universe really. And that's part of the problem is this has been allowed to go on for decades and decades and decades. And it seems to be something different, something other. And this idea that Israel can carry on as quite a good place to live for most of the people who live there and have nothing to do with the occupation or the war in Gaza. I mean, Israelis, we've spoken about this before, that the Israelis, the Israeli media has really let down the Israeli people by failing to report what's happening in Gaza. Obviously the information is there, but you have to go out and, and find it. So I think there's a kind of binary reality. Nessa? No, it was not popular, but bizarrely enough, he's, he's remarkably strong.

[B]

Robyn is there with all due recognition that Benjamin Netanyahu has painted himself into this corner. Daniela talks about his desire and indeed need for his own purposes of staying one, in power and two, out of jail, keeping his coalition together. Is there any way he can stop the war and do that?

[C]

Well, I think, as we've heard, Daniela kind of articulate that his continued existence politically relies on his continuing to be an exponent of that kind of ultimate military strategy, doesn't it? And the terms that have been laid down for some of these talks, many would say are unrealistic, are unobtainable, and therefore not a realistic negotiating position. And it's fair to assume from that the, that the people laying those down know they're not realistic and intend to continue. But I think what appears at the moment, and you know, domestic politics is very important and it's difficult to kind of, you know, assess what you attach more currency, more value to in terms of the messages you hear coming out of Israel. But when the talk is of annexation and the talk is of a resettlement of millions and millions of Palestinians in Gaza and that begins to kind of of be perceived as something that's potentially realistic, I think that tells you how much Benjamin Netanyahu believes that the continuance of the war is the only option he has in terms of staying in power and retaining his control.

[B]

Daniil, I realize this isn't necessarily speculative and we absolutely will not hold you to this, but is there, and it is amazing to think that we are now coming up rapidly approaching the second anniversary of October 7, 2023, and do we yet have even the vaguest idea of how this is going to end? Because at some point this war will end. All wars eventually do. But do we have even the least idea of what will happen next?

[A]

There are numerous scenarios that have been drawn up by different actors, just as we have numerous scenarios for how the occupation could end and how there could be a two state solution, a one federation. I mean, this is all academic, but in this case, I think there is, if you look at that, people have these rather grand ideas as well. There is the idea of remaking the Middle East. I mean, when does that work? But okay, but the idea that's been floated around for a long time that the friendly Gulf states will help redevelop Gaza, you know, the money is there. Israel has really resisted outside influence in this way while sort of saying, oh, but why doesn't the Arab world loves the Palestinians so much? Why don't they invest in their infrastructure? I think that's kind of the, that's one one way forward. I mean, money. There will be no lack of when it comes to reconstruction, but reconstruction of what? There's the longer term, there are various options, but in the short and media term, what happens when there's a ceasefire? What happens when, if it's a long ceasefire, what happens when international journalists are allowed back in Gaza? What happens when the Gazans want to actually commemorate what has happened to them? You know, what happens then? And from. They're getting to a sort of geopolitical solution. From where we are now, people have been writing policy papers and drawing up accounts and working out the economics of it. But from on a human perspective, there is a huge, huge gulf. And I think we're going to be talking about campus protests and US Politics and how this plays out. And in many ways the Palestinian issue has become just sort of a cipher for a much wider row that's going on and that is not going to end. That has got, I think, decades left.

[B]

In it to run by way of pivoting us to that much wider row. Robyn which we will get to very shortly. Is it the. Well, is one of the, the difficulties with this situation that really the only outside actor that Israel actually cares about is the United States. And this US Administration is perhaps uniquely uninterested in getting to grips with the Middle East.

[C]

Yeah, I think you're right in, in, in that, in that analysis. But we also know, on the other hand, that Donald Trump would love to be a Nobel Peace Prize laureate. And whatever you think about his transactional politics, he is a man who has the. Has the power and has the influence and has the desire in terms of a legacy, a legacy to maybe secure something, something like that. And so he kind of waxes and waning and wanes between being an America first, being on the borders of a new kind of isolationism. But at the same time, this is a president who's been very internationalist in many respects, diplomatically, not so much in terms of resources and how American money is spent abroad, but in terms of his diplomatic largesse. I think he would find it irresistible to not be involved if he believed it was a change that he could genuinely affect.

[B]

Well, to the United States. And the latest battle in the war that the administration of President Donald Trump seems determined to wage upon academia, a sector of the US Economy which generates barely calculable billions annually. Perhaps even for this reason, Columbia University has become the latest institute of learning to decide that it's probably easiest in the long run to pay Trump off. Colombia has agreed to cough up $200 million and make various other concessions. Daniela, the alleged initial ostensible complaint here is that Colombia had been insufficiently vigilant on campus. Antisemitism. Do we buy the idea that this has been what has kept Donald Trump awake at night?

[A]

I think there is a genuine issue here of freedom of speech and legitimate protest and the fact that university students, wherever they are in the world, are not really great at judging the limits or being kind to the point of view of the other side. There have been some really ugly scenes, and not just in America. Here as well. I think the right to protest is important. The imperative to protest about Gaza is also important. But the people who are protesting are not really interested in making a difference or winning or building a consensus. And the whole. That there has been anti Semitism, undoubtedly, but the issue has also been weaponized by those who want to see this as part of the culture wars. And, gosh, it works so well. You know, it's. It's just a perfect. It's just a perfect trope to, to be able to use. So I think it's. The universities are taking moves such as adopting the IHRA definition of anti Semitism, which most European countries adopt. But when it comes to actually tackling the issue of freedom of speech, I think it's just been failed on all sides. The universities have not been brave enough to say, okay, these are the limits and we're going to stick to them. And there are many, many outside actors just trying to exploit what's going on on campus. And it's just, as I said, it's just incredibly easy to do so.

[C]

Well.

[B]

On that thought, Robyn, if you are Columbia, which, and I looked it up, has an endowment of around $15 billion, why not say to Trump, come and have a go if you think you're hard enough?

[C]

Yeah, I mean, I think, I think what fascinates me as well is this the education sector in the United States is not the same as the media industry there. But there are parallels we're seeing this week in terms of, I think, decisions taken by cbs, previous legal settlements made by other news organizations, ABC News in particular, who have decided, similar to the tactical decision by those maybe at Columbia, to, to take the plea essentially to cough up and to not run the risk of pursuing a bigger, longer, more drawn out and possibly far more costlier legal proceedings.

[B]

Although Harvard has, it's worth pointing out.

[C]

Yeah, some have, some haven't. And what fascinates me is that I think it's deeply, deeply worrying because it just speaks to kind of a real politics, so to speak. And let's remind ourselves we're barely six months into the Trump administration with Rubio and Vance looking both in a good position maybe for a continued term. But what worries me is that it's evidence of such a kowtowing to an extent, and a willingness, just frankly, to not see a battle for values that are far deeper and for far more, are far more important. And I think those news organizations in particular, coming from the world that I previously came from, you know, are undermining the work of the people that work for them and, you know, the history that they can, that they rest on.

[B]

But, Daniela, for a man as Trump is, who often boasts of being, you know, motivated and animated more or less exclusively by the bottom line, does the damage in terms of, of incoming funds that this is going to do, shouldn't it trouble him more than it does just in terms of foreign students alone? American universities generate enormous amounts of money. And there are already reports that not only are foreign students applying to American universities in smaller numbers than previously, there are record numbers of American students applying to universities in Europe.

[A]

Well, you know, this is the great reshuffling and all the cars will fall and you know, in whatever way they do. I mean, if you're thinking about soft power, then soft power of Harvard and Columbia and the American universities is, is incredible. I don't think, I think if you have the capacity and the money and the ability to go there, I don't think people, you know, on the whole numbers might be wobbling, but the fact that there's some DEI issues there is not going to be the, the deterrent, you know, the, the brand is there. Things may change in another four years, years, six years, you know, but I think we're still, we're still a point of view, you know, going to study in America is never going to be a budget option, is it? But you know, we've seen the same thing in this country as well. You know, we, we, we make a lot of money over of foreign students and we've taken lots of measures which it seems, you know, has to put them off, which doesn't make any sense. But it's all about, it's about domestic politics as well as the economy. And like with Brexit, you know, if you have a policy and you have an ideology, you're going to say, well actually this is, we're going to end up, we're going to end up better, we're going to end up with more money and more students. You know, that's worth sort of pressing forward for whatever sort of political points you're going to score.

[B]

Well, to Silicon Valley and the latest big idea to emanate there from which seems likely to make life for everyone else just that little bit worse. In minor fairness to our weirdo tech overlords, they have lifted this deeply tedious notion from China. It is this, the so called 996 work regimen, which is to say a working week of 9am to 9pm six days a week for a total of 72 hours. It is reported that job applicants to various AI startups are being asked to either express enthusiasm for this or see themselves out. Robyn, if we assume that this is starting at 9am on Monday, how good a job do you reckon you're doing between 6 and 9pm on the Saturday?

[C]

Well, I've been to places, you know, down south and doing stories in my past. In China, where the 996 culture is alive and well, you know, there is, there are fold up beds by the desk, people are taking sleeps during the day, they're working late. The expectation is that work, you know, takes over your whole life and it's part of the broader kind of culture in China over the last 20, 30 years of the, a country which has a huge, a huge work ethic anyway and businesses expected to operate, you know, constantly. But you know, it's the, it's the break it, it's the smash it, it's the create quickly. And, and that, that culture of work which is different frankly to you know, the European culture of work and the attitudes are, are very different, but it's brutal, you know, and, and, and we're seeing in the last couple of years post Covid, in particular the rise of what's pingtang, which is the lying flat. This whole culture in a country of China where youth unemployment is increasingly high, many people deciding not to have children of just lying flat. And that's a real reaction to those decades of the 996 expectations.

[B]

The AI companies and Silicon Valley startups, Daniela, are at least I'm sure paying very decent money for top talent. And they're also offering things like meals will be provided three a day while you plow through your 12 hour day. If that was on offer to you, would you be enthused by the prospect?

[A]

Would the meals be siphoned into the corner of my mouth by a special buy a special straw? Would somebody else do all the childcare while I did that? Because that's the real 24,799 there is that.

[B]

Okay, let's assume that you are getting paid Silicon Valley money, that the childcare is taken care of and somebody is bringing three reasonably pleasant meals to your desk. Risk a day.

[A]

No, no, and it doesn't make, I mean it doesn't make any sense in any kind of sustainable way. And first of all, I thought AI was supposed to all put us out of a job, not make us work harder. And also to me it's just redolent of the whole, that whole sort of tech bro, raw dogging, biohacking.

[B]

See, this is what I think, I think this is, this is nerds trying to appear macho, right?

[A]

It's giving a, it's giving a, it's giving a cute acronym to working really, really hard. We've all done those kinds of jobs and we've all worked very hard. I remember actual print paper that actually went out print. And so we'd do, on print day, we'd stay there till three in the morning. So it was a really, really long day. But you know, the, the modern world, certainly not the Europeans. Can you imagine the Spanish or the French giving up this two hour lunches? It doesn't, well, it's not Sustainable. It's not sustainable. And I can't imagine it will. It will catch on as, as Robin says, you really have to have that kind of work ethic, that culture bit in, God knows the Europeans don't. And even, you know, when you have that kind of work ethic built into your culture, you know, people will want to actually have children and carry on with their lives. And I say no, not for me, not for anyone.

[B]

Robyn, I mean, the thing is, I'm sure I speak for all of us, at least this far, that if you are a journalist, as we are, at some point in your life, you are going to work at least one week where you do pile up those kinds of hours just because things are going nuts that you're trying to cover, or you're trying to do a million things at once, or if you're a freelancer, you're having one of those weeks where you haven't worked for a month and you feel like you'll never work again. And then everybody on earth says, I want 800 words by Wednesday afternoon. We, we've all been there. But, Robin, you having seen this up close, the996 lifestyle, was there any part of you that sort of took this in and thought, wow, this looks amazing?

[C]

No, not at all. I found it kind of. I found it quite sad in some ways. I mean, look, if you, if it's your company, if it's your startup, if there's a group of 20 of you and you have your equity share and it's your lifelong dream, then you're invested in the project, I think we can all begin to understand you might buy in more to that culture, but when it's something that's being imposed on you. And look, we're seeing as well in China now some of the reactions to it, which is where actually lots of particularly younger professional women deciding they don't want to have children, they don't want to go and work the996 either, but they're deciding that they don't want to have children. They want to focus more on themselves, the costs of childcare. And also that's also a rejection of the authoritarian demands made of them before. But I mean, it's also in a country which has 1.4 billion people, where the battle for good jobs means you can sometimes, you know, force people to compete in a much more brutal way against each other, that maybe in this country where clearly there are far, far fewer people, you just wouldn't simply be able to do.

[B]

Robert Brant and Daniela Peled thank you both for joining us. Finally, on today's Daily, our weekly letter from is postmarked Washington, D.C.

[D]

It was pure happenstance that led me to be standing in the blazing sun on Washington's National Mall, trying to edge into the tiniest patch of shade while watching grown men and women stuff dozens of soda soaked hot dogs into their mouths. Our local radio station holds a daily competition in which listeners must guess a song played back backwards, and it had become a daily ritual for me and my kids. On the car ride home from school one day, we got it right, winning tickets to the 33rd annual Barbecue Battle, a massive open air celebration of all things meat and grilling in the shadow of the U.S. capitol building. Which is how I ended up at one of their stages, watching a qualifying round for Nathan's first famous hot dog eating Contest, an annual July 4th tradition that takes place on Coney island as competitive eaters from all over the world converge for a televised spectacle of gluttony.

[C]

Count it down with me from 5, 4, 3, 2, 1, go.

[D]

I could barely keep my own lunch down as I watched James Webb, a trim professional eater From Australia, consume 48 hot dogs and buns in 10 minutes to secure his spot in the final. But the hot dog eating contest wasn't the only American cultural phenomenon on show that day. More striking to me was the bonanza of freestyle stuff that sent attendees into a frenzy on that hot June afternoon. Even as President Donald Trump tests the limits of the Constitution with audacious executive orders and the Ferrari over the Jeffrey Epstein files continues to dominate headlines, polls consistently show that it is the cost of living and the economy that remain the top concerns for Americans today. Consumer prices are on average 24% higher than they were in 2020. And Trump won the election last year largely on the back of promises to make life more affordable for everyday Americans.

[C]

My very highest priorities is to rescue our economy and get dramatic and immediate relief to working families. As president, I'm fighting every day to reverse this damage and make America affordable again.

[D]

Despite his campaign promises, prices remain stubbornly high. Inflation is at 2.4%, and economists worry that Trump's trade tariffs will send that figure even higher.

[C]

We have won. From Maspet to Chinatown, we have won because New Yorkers have stood up for a city they can afford.

[D]

In New York last night. Last month, left wing Democratic socialist Zoram Mamdani cruised to a surprise victory in the Democratic primary for New York mayor with a campaign focused on bringing down the cost of living in the Big Apple and bargain Hunting is in no way the prevail of lower socio economic groups. At every social gathering I attend, no matter what the earning powers of its attendees, a key topic of conversation will be how to find food that is edible and affordable, which wholesaler gives the best deals, how to get money off at different retailers it has taken me two years of living in America to finally realize that life is only affordable if you devote a significant amount of your time to navigating the web of loyalty cards, coupons and cashback deals. It's inevitably a deal with the devil and means handing over all my personal and shopping data to be mined for more things to me to sell. But I've given in. I'm embracing it. I felt a glow of pride recently when a supermarket cashier lavished praise on me for shaving $56 off a grocery bill using points and coupons. Back at the barbecue battle, thousands of people had queued without shade during a heat Wave to pay 20 bucks to get into an event where a huge array of goods were up for grabs. People slung huge shopping bags over their shoulders. The more enterprising folks bought in wheeled shopping carts. Into those receptacles went the myriad free items that brands were giving away. Some were barbecue related meat, spices, rubs, chilli infused honey, but there was also toothpaste washing up liquid, polyester socks, and every kind of soft drink imaginable. You could interpret it as an orgy of American consumerism and advertising, but I felt it cut deeper than that. People genuinely needed many of these items and calculated this was one way to get them at a lower cost. As for me and my family, we came home with about eight toothbrushes, a pineapple teriyaki barbecue rub and six miniature bottles of pickle juice. Inspired by the hot dog guzzlers, we put the latter to use in our own competitive eating contest, seeing which one of us could chuck a whole bottle of pickle juice in 1. 1. Go.

[A]

10.

[C]

9, 8, 7.

[D]

Finally, I felt close to cultural assimilation.

[C]

2.

[B]

1.

[C]

Chug. Chug. Chug. Chug. Chug. Chug. Chug.

[A]

Chug.

[B]

Thank you Charlotte. That was Charlotte MacDonald Gibson writing to us from Washington, D.C. and that is all for this edition of the Monocle Daily. Thanks to our panelists today, Daniella Peled and Robin Brant. Today's show was produced by Hassan Anderson and researched by Henry Cass King. Our sound engineer was Steph Chongu. I'm Andrew Muller here in London. The Daily is back at the same time tomorrow. Thanks for listening.

[A]

Ra.