Should the European Union begin peace talks with Moscow?

Summary

The Monocle Daily – Should the European Union Begin Peace Talks with Moscow?

Date: January 13, 2026
Host: Andrew Muller
Guests: Georgia Scaturo (Italian reporter and producer), Stephen Diehl (Russia analyst and Monocle Radio contributor), Grace Charlton (Monocle’s Associate Editor for Design & Fashion, reporting from Florence)

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Episode Overview

This episode explores whether it is time for the European Union to engage in peace talks with Russia amid protracted conflict in Ukraine, examining European leaders’ motivations, shifting dynamics with the United States, and implications of recent military actions. The panel also discusses the EU-Mercosur free trade agreement, a satirical change in the Iranian flag emoji on X (formerly Twitter), and the rise of a dystopian wellbeing app in China. Lighter segments include a dispatch from the Pitti Uomo fashion fair in Florence.

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1. Fashion Dispatch: Pitti Uomo in Florence

[00:36 – 06:11]
Guest: Grace Charlton

• Atmosphere & Trends: Despite London-like fog, Florence is abuzz with fashion. The fair is “an aperitivo before the main event,” more industry-driven, with men styling outerwear “perched on their shoulders” and notable “fur, leather gloves, big hats.”
• Theme & Olympic Influence: This year’s theme, “motion,” is reflected in an abundance of puffer jackets and technical wear, hinting at the upcoming Cortina Winter Olympics. Brands like Brunello Cucinelli even showcased branded skis.
• Fur’s Return: Genuine fur’s revival is “almost a full circle moment on sustainability.” Young attendees reason that vintage fur is better than “fake fur made from plastic.”
  • Quote (Grace, [04:01]): “It’s okay if it comes from your nonna’s wardrobe...if it’s a hand-me-down, if it’s vintage.”
• Japanese Designers Impact: Large Japanese influence with designers like Soshi Otsuki as guest.
• Mood of Luxury Sector: Oscillated from optimism to pessimism; now, “there’s resolve – people are adapting.”

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2. Travel Notes: Georgia and Oman

[06:58 – 09:41]

• Stephen Diehl on Georgia:
  • Emphasizes contrast—a mix of “fabulous buildings” and some “falling down.” Younger generations speak English, older prefer Russian.
  • Quote (Stephen, [07:19]): “A place of contrast. Some of it is beautiful...some are just falling down.”
• Georgia Scaturo on Oman:
  • Highlights economic growth, massive investments in tourism (dolphins, turtles, the world's longest water zipline), and the soon-to-open “biggest botanic garden in the world.”

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3. Ukraine & Russia: Should the EU Try Peace Talks?

[09:41 – 19:46]

The War’s Stalemate and Russian Intent

• Missile Strikes: Russia has intensified attacks, using advanced hypersonic weapons near Poland’s border.
• No Earnest Prospects for Talks:
  • Stephen: “Not yet, because Vladimir Putin wants the war to carry on. He hasn’t achieved...the aims he set out nearly four years ago.” ([10:57])
  • Putin fears his own people more than the West, referencing his obsession with historic dictators' downfalls.
  • “He can’t give in. He would lose his presidency... he would probably lose his head.” ([12:39])
• European Leaders' Positions:
  • Macron and Meloni have suggested talks; likely motivated by a desire to keep the EU relevant and not sidelined in any potential US-Russia deals.
  • Quote (Georgia, [14:25]): “The time has really come for Europe to step up... until you really target Russian oil, it is going to be hard to stop Putin financing the war.”

The Problem of European Unity

• Who leads talks? “If we start...in a disorganized way, we would do Putin a favor. It could be counterproductive.” ([15:10], Georgia)
• Davos might be a forum, but caution is advised.

US Influence: Dealings with President Trump

• Talking to Trump:
  • Stephen: “There’s every point… far more point than trying to speak to Putin…he will often be swayed by whatever was last whispered into his shell-like ear.” ([16:31])
  • Europeans “cannot ignore the United States, and [Trump] is going to be in charge for the next three years at least.”
  • Georgia: Italy’s Meloni, although once close to Trump, is “taking some distances…she knows that energy is needed in Europe.”
  • Trump’s credibility is under scrutiny: “now we want to see the personal back into what he says.” ([19:35])

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4. EU-Mercosur Free Trade Agreement

[19:46 – 24:39]

• Historic Deal: After 25 years of negotiation and “tractors pulling angry donuts,” the deal is reached, pending Parliament’s ratification.
  • Quote (Andrew, [19:46]): “There are nigh certainly people who have been involved in the years of negotiations... who were outlasted by the talks.”
• Why Now?:
  • Trump’s interventionist approach in Latin America may have “hastened this deal.” ([21:11])
  • Latin American countries eager for cooperation outside US influence.
• Impacts and Standards:
  • Georgia: This “might spark an appetite for global norms again, for rules as an alternative to Trump.”
  • Highlights ongoing concerns about food standards, fair prices, and the European Parliament vote due mid-2026.
  • “When we talk about standards, we also have to think of Trump—no standards, complete freedom.” ([24:28])

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5. Iran, X (Twitter), and Flags: Satirical Tech, Real Risks

[24:39 – 31:03]

• The Emoji Incident:
  • Elon Musk responds to a user’s request by changing the Iran flag emoji on X to the pre-Islamic Revolution version, leading regime accounts to fly the Shah’s flag.
  • Stephen: “It does seem an extraordinary thing to do…But it distracts from the seriousness of the situation.” ([26:00])
• Deeper Context:
  • Ongoing protests in Iran, high repression, with “open murder on the streets.”
  • Georgia: “More dangerous than nudity [on X] is what Stephen was pointing out: what happens on the street…and Trump has chosen social media to say, ‘keep demonstrating, help is coming’—without saying when and how.” ([28:14])
  • Stephen draws a parallel with the 1956 Hungarian Uprising, warning of the risk of giving false hope to protesters: “There is history of the Americans doing this and it not turning out well.” ([29:52])

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6. China’s “Are You Dead Yet?” App: Technology and Loneliness

[31:03 – 35:54]

• Silema App Overview:
  • Prompts users once a day to confirm they’re alive; alerts family if unanswered.
  • Andrew: “There are, according to most estimates, around 200 million people in China who live alone.” ([33:32])
• Panel Reactions:
  • Georgia: “First of all, when have elderly and frail people been hooked in technology and apps? My mum…can’t even answer the phone...That is not going to work, is it?” ([32:02])
  • Suggests a new app: “Are you alive and loved yet?”—nudging family to call, not just check for vital signs.
  • Stephen: “This idea...brings in, you know, shades of 1984...It’s a bonkers idea, to be perfectly honest.” ([33:32], [34:17])
• Dark Humor:
  • Andrew: “[Are you dead yet?] sounds like the kind of question your grandchildren ask while they’re sort of writing their initials on the bottom of things in your house.” ([35:22])
  • Stephen’s anecdote: “My mother...just turned 60…the son of a neighbor…said: ‘And you’re still alive.’” ([35:54])

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7. Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• “He can’t give in. He would lose his presidency... he would probably lose his head.” – Stephen Diehl on Putin ([12:39])
• “If we were to start [peace talks] in a disorganized way, we would do Putin a favor.” – Georgia Scaturo ([15:10])
• “There’s every point [to talk to Trump]… far more point than trying to speak to Putin.” – Stephen Diehl ([16:31])
• “Are you alive and loved yet?” – Georgia Scaturo’s app suggestion ([32:59])
• “This idea of an app...brings in shades of 1984.” – Stephen Diehl on Silema ([34:17])
• “It’s okay if it comes from your nonna’s wardrobe...if it’s vintage.” – Grace Charlton on vintage fur ([04:01])

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8. Timestamps for Important Segments

• [00:36] – Pitti Uomo Florence fashion report
• [09:41] – Ukraine war: EU’s dilemma, Russian motivations
• [14:25] – Macron, Meloni, and the EU’s strategy on dealing with Russia
• [16:31] – The necessity of engaging with Trump
• [19:46] – EU-Mercosur free trade agreement
• [24:39] – X (Twitter) flag change and Iran’s crisis
• [31:03] – China’s “Are you dead yet?” app discussion

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9. Tone and Style

A lively, wry, and sometimes satirical tone prevails, balancing serious geopolitical analysis with humor and human interest. The hosts and guests frequently use irony, witticisms, and personal anecdotes to leaven weighty subjects—from war strategy to mortality apps—while still delivering insightful and well-sourced commentary.

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End of Summary

Transcript

[A]

You're listening to the Monocle Daily, first broadcast on 13 January 2026 on Monocle Radio.

[B]

Has the time come for Europe to speak to Russia? Has Elon Musk's ex done something actually genuinely amusing and is telling your phone you're still alive every day, actually. Any better than being eaten by your cat? I'm Andrew Muller. The Monocle Daily starts.

[C]

Foreign.

[B]

Welcome to the Monocle Daily. Coming to you from our studios here at Midori House in London. I'm Andrew Muller. My guests, Georgia Scaturo and Stephen DL will discuss the day's big stories and we'll hear from Monocle's team at Pitti Uomo in Florence. Stay tuned. All that and more coming up right here on the Monocle Daily. This is the Monocle Daily. I'm Andrew Muller and we will hear shortly from Giorgio Scaturo and Steven Diehl. But first, I am joined from Pitti Uomo in Florence by Monocle's associate editor for design and fashion, Grace Charlton Grace. Welcome to the show. How is the weather, first of all, in Florence? It must be nicer than here.

[C]

I'm actually not sure. It's very Londony. It's super foggy, you can barely see the river.

[B]

But can you at least see what people are wearing? By which I'm asking, when you go to Florence during Pitti Uomo, how different is it from going to Florence at any other juncture?

[C]

I would say Florence is a very fashionable city, but it does amp it up. Around this time of the year, all the men are out in their coats and beige cashmere. They like to perch their outerwear on their shoulders, you know, just so there are a lot of leather gloves, a lot of big hats and a lot of fur. This year, interestingly enough, I do want.

[B]

To come back to that, but in terms of the fashion calendar, because Pitti Uomo is obviously, and I'll just check the date again, held very early on. Is it regarded as something of a tone setter for the imminent calendar?

[C]

Yeah, it's an interesting one because it's very industry driven. A lot of people today describe Pitti Uomo as like an aperitivo before the main event, which is, you know, Milan and Paris, the men's fashion weeks there. But it's very real in the sense that people come here to work and, you know, meet buyers and meet the press. So it's still a big event.

[B]

It says here that this year's theme is motion. Do you get any idea yet of how that is actually manifesting?

[C]

There's a lot of outerwear. It's the winter edition, so there are a lot of coats, but there's particularly a lot of puffer coats. And I wonder if that's Cortina Olympics related. There's a massive emphasis on, like, technical wear, and not necessarily from ski brands, but from, you know, Ernau and Italian houses like that.

[B]

I mean, Italy will, of course, shortly be hosting the Winter Olympics. Are you seeing anything acknowledging that? I mean, are the puffer jackets sort of. I mean, are they endowed with any of the, I guess, accoutrements or general flair that might be associated with a ski jumper or a curler?

[C]

Yeah, little pockets for the ski parts, maybe. There is some of that. There are some obvious, like, apres ski nods, like, you know, mountains on a knitted jumper. I saw at Brunello Cucinelli, this sort of very iconic Italian designer, he even had branded skis. So, yes, definitely. It's definitely on the mind of designers at the moment.

[B]

You mentioned the fur coat revival that some are trying to float. Is that going to be controvers and is that perhaps at least partially the idea?

[C]

I think it's like a full circle moment almost on sustainability because, you know, fur coats have been banned by a lot of big Italian houses, and it was sort of seen as a no, no. But I've noticed that they're creeping back into people's consciousness, especially among a younger generation who see fake fur as worse for the environment because it's made from plastic quite often. I spoke to an Italian fashion stud today who was wearing a fur coat, and I asked him how he felt about it, and he said, it's okay if it comes from your nonna's wardrobe. You know, if it's a hand me down if it's vintage. So it's funny to see how conversations can shift in the space of two to three years.

[B]

So the fur coat's fine if the animal was dead anyway.

[C]

Exactly.

[B]

Okay, good to know. It is quite early on in this event. I mean, what are you most looking forward to in coming days?

[C]

I think so they've got a few guest designers this year. They've got two Japanese ones, actually. There's a massive Japanese influence, I'd say, at the fair. Not necessarily in terms of, like, the buyers, the people who are coming, but in terms of the aesthetics and the brands that are showing up and that are being picked up. So this year, for example, there's Soshi Otsuki, who's the guest designer, and he's going to be showing tomorrow, which is quite exciting.

[B]

But yeah, just finally then these have of course, the last few years, for various reasons been quite tricky ones for what we think of as the luxury sector. Are you getting any sense of whether attendees are generally optimistic, pessimistic, that some sort of corner might have been turned?

[C]

You know, it's funny because about a year ago I sensed optimism. Six months later, as in six months ago, I sense, sensed complete pessimism. And now I just feel like there's resolve and a sort of adapting to the new reality, you know, less pent up demand after Covid. So I wouldn't even say it's a question of optimism or pessimism. It's just it is what it is and people are going to keep doing as much as they can.

[B]

Grace Charlton, Monocle's associate editor for design and fashion, thank you for joining us. That was Grace speaking to us from Pitti Uomo in Florence. You're listening to the Monocle Daily. Back shortly foreign. I said shortly. This is the Monocle Daily with me, Andrew Muller. And I am joined today for the rest of the show by Giorgio Scaturo, London based Italian reporter and producer, and by Stephen DL Russia analyst and regular Monocle Radio contributor. Hello to you both. Hello. You were both away doing exciting stuff either during or just after Christmas. Stephen, first of all, you went to Georgia, not the US State, the other one.

[D]

Yes, Tbilisi. I have a friend who speaks Georgian and he always insists on, you must say Tbilisi, not Tbilisi.

[B]

Okay, good to know.

[D]

And I could meet up there with some Russian friends, actually, because it's very easy for Russians to, to get from Georgia. They don't need a visa and it was holiday time in Russia.

[B]

So easier for them to get to Georgia than you to get to Russia.

[D]

At the Much, much easier than that and even easier than for them to get there than come here. So, yeah, so it was a bit of tourism and also seeing I hadn't been to to Georgia for a few years and it was talk about a place of contrast. Wow. I mean, some of it is beautiful. There's some fabulous buildings and there are quite a lot of buildings that could be fabulous and probably once were and are now just falling down. It's, it's a strange mix. But conversations we had with locals were generally good if they were of an older generation. We spoke in Russian. Anyone who was under the age of 30 who wasn't born in the Soviet Union, I would speak to them first in English. And I found only one person who didn't understand what I was saying. One young person so the younger generation speak English. But it's a fascinating place and actually I'd like to go back and spend a bit more time and see a bit more.

[B]

Yeah, so would I. I have not been to Georgia for ages, but it is a remarkable and in the. I would say in the high north west of the country, up the Svenetti region, possibly the most glorious landscapes to be found anywhere in Europe. To be clear, the daily is not in any way sponsored by the tourist authorities of Georgia. But you have Georgia. Sorry, I was getting confused by which Georgia I was addressing there. You've been to a country whose airport I have recently visited briefly tw, which is to say you've been to Oman. I flew via Muscat some of the way to Australia and back recently.

[A]

Well, I will encourage you then to get out of the airport and visit.

[B]

The airport's very nice.

[A]

It is as is the country. And then in Muscat in particular, I was lucky enough to be one of the first visitors of the Botanic garden, which has not opened yet and is supposed to be the biggest botanic garden in the world, which is quite something. The economy of the country has picked up quite a lot. So they investing massively on tourism. So from showing me dolphins and green turtles whom I swam with, to pushing me down the longest zipline over water in the world, and I'm here to tell the tale, there is a lot to do in Oman.

[B]

Okay, we're not sponsored either by the tourist authorities of Oman, I should make clear. But I'm going to go with the variety veracity of what both our guests have claimed about both those destinations. These are entirely honestly acquired insights. We will start in Ukraine, Russia's 72 hour lightning conquest of which is fast approaching its fourth anniversary. In the apparent lack of any fresh thinking, Russia has continued to batter Ukraine with some of the biggest missile salvos of the war, causing not just further direct death and injury to Ukrainian people, but the second order hazard of energy outages at the last time of year you would want them this weekend. Kyiv is expecting overnight temperatures somewhere in the vicinity of -20. While Ukraine is also inviting the citizens of some Russian cities to see how they like it. More than half a million people in Belgorod Oblast were without power last week after Ukrainian missile strikes. The European Commission and some individual European leaders are wondering vaguely if engaging directly might at this point be useful. Engaging directly with Russia, that is. Stephen, have we arrived at the point at which there is any point trying to have a conversation with Russia?

[D]

Not yet, because Vladimir Putin wants the War to carry on. Basically, he hasn't achieved anything like the aims that he set out to do nearly four years ago. Incidentally, a rather sad fact, I think, is that as of yesterday, this war has been going on for longer than the Soviet Union was engaged in the Second World War they call the Great.

[B]

Patriotic War, during which the Russians covered considerably more ground than they have in this one.

[D]

They did indeed, and obviously had far greater losses, but they were fighting for their own territory. And this is a key factor in this war, that the Russians, basically, the Russian army now is full of mercenaries. They're doing it for money. They don't believe that they're defending their motherland or that even that most of them don't really think that Ukraine is part of their country. They are simply doing it for money. And in the Great Patriotic War, of course, they were fighting the Germans back from their own territory. So that's. That's a major change. But they. The war goes on until Putin can claim some sort of victory, at least having those four regions, the oblasts in eastern Ukraine plus Crimea, that are now officially part of the Russian constitution, but they're still not fully occupied by Russia. He has to have at least that, otherwise he loses face. And this is one thing I was discussing with these Russian friends who are not Putin supporters, I hasten to add, in Georgia was they said, well, you know, a drum I've banged often, which is that the thing that Putin fears most of all is his own people. He fears them far more than the west, or certainly not the United States now or China or anywhere else. It's this fear. He's in so deep that any sign of weakness and he would not only lose his presidency, he would probably lose his head. And he knows this. We know, for example, that he watched over and over again pictures of Gaddafi being lynched. And he looks back at Mussolini in Italy in the Second World War, and he sees that terrifies him, something like that happening, so he can't give in. And you mentioned in the lead in the number of missile attacks. It seems to me the only result of the meeting that took place last year in Alaska between Trump and Putin is that Putin has therefore stepped up the bombardment of Ukraine and an Ereshnik hypersonic ballistic missile used last week on Lviv, very close to the border with Poland, only about 60 km from the border with Poland. These things are real signs that he's not going to give up. And I think the voices that came out of the European, I think most Europeans are not saying, well, let's go and talk to Putin. But Macron is kind of hinting at some point you're going to have to. But I don't think we're anywhere near there yet.

[B]

Georgia President Macron of France is one of the leaders who does seem to suggest that it might be worth engaging with Russia. Italy's Prime Minister Giorgia Meloni has said or suggested much the same thing. Is this them, do you think, acting slightly self interestedly in trying to keep the EU relevant because there's been a lot of concern that some sort of deal is going to get done between Washington and Moscow over Europe's head?

[A]

Well, absolutely. But I have to say a year ago I was interviewing Stephanie Baker, who's the Bloomberg investigative journalist on her new book Punishing Putin, and she said until you really target Russia oil, it is going to be hard to stop Putin financing the war. And now if you think that Europe and Russia have the greater trade on oil and gas, the time has really come for Europe to step up. Last month in December, we had some sort of more sanctions coming through. It's nowhere near what needs to be done at this point. And in fact, we had Giorgio Meloni saying the time has come now to speak with Russia. The problem is who is going to start this conversation because is it going to be Orban or Fico? So Hungary and Slovenia, Slovakia, who are just Putin best friend or who else can get into Putin's court? And I think Giorgio Meloni also raised the point, which is if we were to make the mistake to start this conversation and proceed in a disorganized way, we would do Putin a favor. So it would have more weapons against Europe than anything. And so it could be counterproductive need to see how this proceeds. And Davos maybe could be one possibly moment where we go farther in figuring out how to establish a dialogue.

[B]

Stephen Davos, of course, might be an opportunity for European leaders to talk to the other key protagonist here. President Trump, as I understand, is due to attend. He may change his mind about that, as he so very often does. But is there any actually at this point any more point in trying to engage with him about Ukraine?

[D]

I think there's every point, there's far more point than trying to speak to Putin because it does seem and unpredictable though he is President Trump, it does seem that he will often be swayed by whatever was last whispered into his shell like ear. And so I think that the Europeans who at times I find it rather sickening the way they cosy up to him and don't read him the riot act for certain things he's done. But you can't ignore him. You know, we cannot ignore the United States, and he is the man in charge, and he's going to be in charge for the next three years at least. And I think that they have to keep telling him that, you know, actually Putin's not a good guy and that we need to support Ukraine. It may sway him, it may not, but it's better to be telling him that rather than keeping mum and not saying anything at all.

[B]

Georgia. Italy's Prime Minister Giorgia Meloni was recently, I mean, I think, quite remarkably audibly exasperated about President Trump and his incessant wittering about Greenland. Do you think she's getting to the point where she's starting to think, bearing in mind that she's always seemed to be one of the European leaders, he quite likes that she, at least, is getting to the point where she would be willing to say, or at least think that there is simply no point in Europe waiting around for the United States anymore.

[A]

Yes, I think if you think of European leaders, Giorgia Meloni is the closest to Trump, let alone because she is sort of like the Queen of Europe. And so, you know, once. But that relationship, she's been forced to say that some measures are better taken by, you know, think of Venezuela. You know, it was the legitimate action, but yet, you know, it is up to the country to establish the government. So Giorgio Meloni is somehow taking some distances from the tyrant who goes, veni, vidi, vicit. In a way, we have to say that everybody at this point is counting on Trump to make some personal commitment to what he said. We've seen, you know, the security guarantees basically offered, but now we want to see the personal back into what he says. And how easy is that to expect him to be committed when, you know, Stephen, you mentioned Alaska, but the first thing that came to my mind was the red carpet and this arm stretched towards Putin. Who's going to tell us that when Putin calls Trump and says, hey, Trump doesn't say, no, I'm in for the security guarantee, you know, it's not going to happen. So the credibility of Trump now needs to be seen in action, actually. And Giorgia Meloni, in a way, is tilting both ways, but she knows that energy is needed in Europe. She's actually committed billions to reduce the energy bills of Italians at the moment. So she will need forcibly to make.

[B]

A stand, well, to the world of trade and a reminder of the superhuman patience it requires of those professionally involved. Therein, there are nigh certainly people who have been involved in the years of negotiations over the free trade agreement between the EU and South American countries of Mercosur who were outlasted by the talks. However, a quarter century of wrangling over wood pulp quotas is over. The EU MERCOSUR free trade deal is done pending the agreement of the European Parliament, a breakthrough which has prompted the traditional mutual and or self congratulation from all parties to such deals and the no less traditional spectacle of aggrieved French farmers on tractors pulling angry donuts around the arc to triumph. Stephen, their difficulties and issues notwithstanding, is it fair to say without sounding like crazed neocon headbangers, that free trade agreements are usually basically a good thing?

[D]

I think that's fair, yeah. But as you say, maybe we were, you know, nowadays we're not supposed to be liberal, that many of us are, and yeah, it is. But I think the thing that overshadows all this really is what's going on in that part of the world with Trump. Is he seizing Venezuela? He seized the president.

[B]

He seems to have lost interest in that one pretty quickly, to be honest.

[D]

Except the court case will be going on and he doesn't seem to have got the oil companies as excited about extracting Venezuelan oil as he thought would happen. But nevertheless, I think that whole action and the reaction of Colombia and Cuba, which I know are not part of Mercasur, but it just puts that whole part of the world in a state of anxiety, in a state of uncertainty. And I mean, I think it's quite possible that that action has actually hastened this deal. And Argentina, Brazil, Paraguay, Uruguay, the Mercosur members are probably very glad to have at least have an agreement, have something, some sort of, even if it's just a bit of paper for now to say, you know, look, we, you know, we're cooperating with Europe, we're not just being left alone, because, of course, the overriding factor is that Trump sees that as his part of the world and it wants everyone to keep out. So I think that in that sense it's good news.

[B]

Georgia, might this go both ways, though? Might the Europeans be kind of happy that they feel like they actually have some reliable allies on the other side of the Atlantic?

[A]

Well, I think, first of all, it'd be interesting to see now if this new trade that, let's remember, it's impacting 800 million people, that might have lower prices of food, whether this trade now, after 25 years, you were saying, is concluded, whether it will spark an Appetite for global norms, again, for rules as an alternative to Trump. And that, you know, we will have to see the same norms that have alienated Italy, for instance. We were. And our approach was one of skepticism and caution because, you know, when farmers rights or farmers standards are in issue, it's very difficult. But now we will have to see how, you know, the business is big, the opportunities are big, how each of the countries will implement this new trade. We have now 17th of January, this trade, we have the ceremony and the official signature signing, but then in mid-2026, the European Parliament will vote on the agreement and then we'll start seeing the single countries involved will implement it. We are continuing to see demonstrations, quite spectacular ones, the tractors, the milk being, you know, put out on the street. And that again, is because we want to somehow safeguard fair prices standards. But when we talk about standards, we also have to. To think of Trump, no standards, completely freedom. So in a way, maybe this whole trade will push people to rethink that standards are in fact important somehow, especially when it comes to food, and especially it's important to have alternatives to tariffs, threats, political repercussions. We can do without this.

[B]

Well, to Iran and to grudging acknowledgement that the generally witless trolling engaged in by X and its proprietor, Elon Musk, does have its moments, if only due to the law of averages. In response to a request by a mischievous user, X has changed its Iran flag emoji. So instead of the flag flown by the Iranian regime as of this broadcast, etc. It shows the flag as it was before the Islamic Revolution of 1979, with a lion and sun crest between the green and red stripes, instead of the current logo depicting four crescents and a sword. As a consequence, several official accounts attached to the Iranian regime, which of course blocks X for ordinary Iranians, suddenly appeared to be flying the flag of the Shah they overthrew. Stephen, it's probably an even worse period than usual to admit that you found anything that Elon Musk may have said, done or authorised amusing. But is this at least kind of funny?

[D]

Kind of funny? I think it's a very good way of putting it, Andrew. I almost thought this should be the last item on the show tonight, given that we tend to end with something that raises a smile.

[B]

Listeners, we've gone bleak for our final item tonight. I'm just putting that out there, Right.

[D]

So that's why it's coming in number three. But it does seem an extraordinary thing to do in response to a request. Apparently, if you look on anywhere else, then, you know, you won't find the old flag. You know what the thing that made me think most of what's he doing now? You know, I mean, Trump or his acolytes, you know, it just, it's a very strange thing to do, suddenly bring the flag. It has been seen. In fact, there's one or two pictures are around of demonstrations in certainly one in London. I've seen where it's got the old flag. But it's not the whole point of the demonstrations. I mean, they weren't sparked by people saying, bring back the Shah tomorrow. They were sparked because of food shortages and energy shortages and water shortages and all sorts of other problems. And of course, we shouldn't really be laughing because what's going on now? I mean, there is open murder on the streets. I heard one interview earlier today with, with someone who was using the words that they. They'd spoken to someone in Iran who didn't want their voice to be used and saying, you're almost sentencing yourself to death if you just go on the streets. So, you know, the, actually, the, the funny side of this emoji apart, it's, you know, it's actually a very, very serious situation. You know, some of us are old enough to remember 979 and the, the overthrow of the Shah and, and at that time, there was great hope and people, you know, people didn't realize what the Ayatollah Khomeini, as it was coming in then, was going to turn the country into. But I think that this is. It rather distracts from the seriousness of the situation, but it's still an extraordinary thing for Musk or whoever it was to do, because no one else has done it. If you've got an iPhone and you look on your emojis, you'll still see the old flash.

[A]

He's the expert, right, in driving engagement. And, you know, he, he's an advocate of free speech, so anything can happen on X, which, as you point out.

[B]

He'S an advocate of some free speech, I. E. The free speech he agrees with.

[A]

Yeah, let's see what happens with Grok and, and nudity. But more dangerous than nudity at the moment is what Stevens was pointing out, what happens on the street and the fact that. That Trump itself has chosen social media platform to say, keep demonstrating help is coming without saying when and how help is coming. I think we should really take things seriously. It shows a complete lack of responsibility on human lives that are lost at.

[B]

Any minute, which does prompt a serious question Just finally on this, Stephen, as Georgia correctly points out, President Trump has been posting to the effect that help is on the way to the Iranian demonstrators. Is it possible that this might actually fit in with his appetite for foreign interventions as we understand it? That is a short, sharp shock that stirs things up a bit because if there is a pattern to his foreign policy, this is what it's been. He's always objected to the long term nation building projects. His objections to things like, like the invasions of Afghanistan and Iraq do not seem to be so much that the US Helped tip out an unpleasant regime, as the US Assuredly did on both occasions. But the US Then spent decades, money and lives trying to turn these places into analogues of the United States. If somebody comes to him with the suggestion that, look, if we just whack several regime targets, this might tip it over the edge, you can see that appealing to him.

[D]

I'm sure it would appeal. Well, what worries me, as you say, he's saying help is on its way. This has echoes of 1956, the Hungarian uprising, when Voice of America led Hungarians to believe that the Americans were on their way, they were gonna help them, they were gonna push the Russians out of the country, the Soviet troops, and of course, it encouraged more Hungarians to go on the streets. And as a result, more Hungarians died in the Hungarian uprising. And of course, the Soviet Union did clamp down on it very heavily and Hungary was very much put back in its pro Soviet box, as it were. So there is history of the Americans doing this and it not turning out well. I think that language that Trump has used is very irresponsible, but I just wonder with the actions of the Revolutionary Guard and the Iranian authorities, whether actually people would be listening too much. The Internet's been cut off anyway, so they're not going to hear much from him, which is probably a good thing because as Georgia said, you know, we're talking human lives here. And the Iranian authorities have shown that they are not prepared to compromise.

[B]

Well, to China, finally, and to encouraging tidings for those of our Chinese listeners who may be preoccupied by concerns about being eaten rather by domestic pets once their time in this corporeal realm is up. There is a new app called Si Le Ma, which apparently translates as Are you dead yet? Though such are the minute vicissitudes of Chinese pronunciation that I feel obliged to apologize for any calumny I may just inadvertently have issued vis a vis the sobriety of anyone's father or the modesty of their mother. Anyway, users of Silema are asked to affirm once a day that they are in fact still with us. If they repeatedly fail to heed the prompts, their contacts are alerted, which could prompt no end of amusing hijinks in the circles of the disorganized or unreliable George. Eri, are you downloading this or waiting for the British and or Italian equivalent thereof? What is the Italian for are you dead yet?

[A]

Sei Marto. I am absolutely furious. I'm fuming. The listeners can't see me. But first of all, the question, since when elderly and frail people have been hooked in technology and apps? My mum, 86 years old, can't even answer the phone because she inadvertently pressed the airplane mode. So that is not going to work, is it? But Andrew, I would like to take the chance to make an appeal from your show. Apologies. Go on any coder, engineer, startup to make a different kind of app, which I would call it are you alive and loved yet? And this would resound on any daughter, son, nephew to remember them, to call their parents, their grandparents, they auntie, or any loved one who is not coping particularly well at least once a day and give them company, physical company, I would say.

[B]

What if their elderly relatives would rather just be left in peace?

[A]

Oh, that's another matter. They will say. They will be able to say.

[B]

So, okay, that is actually a, I mean, that's the more optimistic, I guess, antidote to this. Stephen, do you think that this is a sort of dispatch from a looming dystopia, or is this just merely a practical acknowledgement of the way more and more people live? There are, according to Most estimates, around 200 million people in China who live alone.

[D]

But even so, as George has said, those to whom this question might be most appropriately addressed probably aren't that tech savvy, even in China. And it just seems very bad taste. I love George's idea, actually. Yes. You know, are you alive and loved? That's brilliant. Yes. You know, just a little nudge to the next generation, the younger generation, to say, you know, give them a call, just see if they're okay. Which is far more, far more sensible. I mean, but this idea of. You mentioned the word dystopian. I think that's very good because the idea of having an app, you know, it brings in, you know, shades of 1984 and the screen on the wall is actually watching you. And so. No, I think it's. I think it's a bonkers idea, to be perfectly honest.

[B]

Do you get. Are you reassured? I should ask Georgia that the developers of this app have factored in everything that could possibly go wrong because there are a lot of people out there who are somewhat disorganized or lackadaisical, just not very good with technology. Might forget that. Oh, yeah, I was supposed to press that button that stops all my friends and family from flying into a complete package.

[A]

Well, Andrew, to put this simply, I can't see anything that could possibly go right with this app. Enough said.

[B]

Stephen, there is a debate apparently just finally on the the name of this app. There are those people who would prefer it was called something a bit more upbeat, not quite what Georgia suggested, but instead are suggesting, are you still alive? Not are you dead yet? Would that make you feel any better about using it?

[D]

Not really. But I mean, the, you know, are you dead yet? You know, suggest that you are, you know, so are you still allowed?

[B]

It suggests, at best, an amount of impatience.

[A]

Do you answer?

[C]

Yes. Are you dead?

[D]

No, indeed. That's the point. Yes.

[B]

No. It sounds like the kind of question your grandchildren ask while they're sort of writing their initials on the bottom of things in your house.

[D]

I remember actually my mother saying to me many years ago that I think she'd just turned 60. And the small boy, the son of a neighbor, sort of said, you know, oh, it was a birthday. And he said, how, how old? And she said, well, I've just turned 60. And this small child, aged about six, sort of had eyes wide and looked at my mother and said, and you're still alive.

[B]

Well, on that heartening note, Stephen Diehl and George Escaturo, thank you both for joining us. That is it for this edition of the Daily. Thanks to our panelists today, George Escaturo and Stephen Diehl. Also to Grace, Chuck Carlton. Today's show was produced by Monica Lillis and researched by Anneliese Maynard. Our sound engineer was Elliot Greenfield. I'm Andrew Muller here in London. The Daily is back at the same time tomorrow. Thanks for listening.

[C]

Sam.