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A
You're listening to the Monocle Daily, first broadcast on 11 February 2026 on Monocle Radio. In a Canadian town where no one locks their doors, nine people are killed in a shooting at a secondary school. We'll have the latest. Should Ukraine go to the polls in the middle of a war? And if you've been cheating on your girlfriend, should you use an interview at the Olympics to try to win her back? I'm Emma Nelson and the Monocle Daily starts now.
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B
Foreign.
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A
Hello there and a very warm welcome to the Monocle Daily, coming to you live from our studios here at Midori House in London. My guests, Daniela Pellet and Ben Kelly will talk about the day's big stories and we'll hear about industrial design from our team in Milan. Stay tuned. There's lots coming up on the Monocle Daily. And a very warm welcome. Scuttling out of the rain. Daniela Peled, managing editor of the Institute for War and Peace, reporting best here in London. And also Ben Kelly, senior audience editor at Newsweek. A very good evening to you both.
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B
Hello.
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C
Good evening.
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A
How are we? What have we been up to, Ben? Hello.
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C
Been escaping the rain mostly. Been a very boring week. Although last Sunday just passed, I did go to this really, really sort of wholesale book warehouse fair in Hertfordshire where everything was 70% off.
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A
Excellent.
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C
And I sort of like just fill the box with books and that's kind of gonna dictate what I read for the year.
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A
Are you ever going to read them?
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C
Yes, but at what point? In what time frame? I don't know, because there is that.
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A
Thing, Daniela, that I need to look this up. It's the thing about all the books that you have but you'll never read. And there's that sort of philosophical acceptance that basically most of the walls of my flat are never going to be touched until I move house. And then I will look at my shelves with re renewed joy and appetite and then forget about them again.
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B
I'm sure the Germans have a word for that as well.
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C
Or the Japanese.
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B
Yeah, the Japanese. There must be a word. But I kind of. I'm of the belief that you kind of absorb them just by being there and reading the titles every so often and then taking them out of the shelves and smelling them. That was a kind of book osmosis.
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A
Make it so clever. So clever. And then you have them piling up by your bed and then by your desk and then in other places and they never get touched. And that's that. How about you, Daniela? How are you getting on?
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B
I'm Good. I've had a very cultural week. I went to the opera last night.
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A
What did you see?
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B
I went to see Kosi Van Tutti, if you please.
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A
I was at the opera as well. Were you on that one? What did you see? We're learning this about on live. I saw Boris Godunov. So there we are. Heavens, Ben, when was the last time you were at the opera? Come on, come on.
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C
I might, I might.
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A
Okay, we'll bring you in for next time. Was it any good, Daniela?
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B
The music was good, but, you know, the story hasn't aged well.
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A
It's the two women who pledge their love forever to the two men. So they test them and they go away.
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B
I mean, the two girls, you know, that's every sort of narrative before sort of 17, you know, 98.
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A
But yeah, I just had a tsar who took two and a half hours to die. It was great. Anyway, let's talk about what's happening in the news and we do have to start with some very serious breaking story. The mayor of the Canadian town of Tumbler Ridge has urged citizens to offer a shoulder and support to others. At least nine people have been killed, a further 25 injured after a series of shootings in the local secondary school and at a home. The Canadian Prime Minister, Mark Carney, has cancelled a trip to the Munich security conference and said that the nation mourns with Tumblr. Well, let's get the latest from Monocle's Toronto correspondent, Thomas Lewis. Good morning. Good afternoon, Thomas.
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D
Good afternoon, Emma.
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A
Just bring us up to date with the latest of this because this is a town which never locks its doors.
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D
Indeed. Well, not until kind of the events of last night, possibly.
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E
Emma.
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D
It feels that a very profound change has befallen a town of about 2,400 people, built in the early 1980s for a big mining operation that was founded there. And there's still remarkably over these past hours, despite the coverage that this has had, understandably, Emma, quite a lot that we don't know. The police have said that they have identified the suspect who is believed to have been found dead with a self inflicted gunshot wound inside the school. That was described in an alert that the residents of Tumbler Ridge received on their phones at the time by the police as a female wearing a dress with brown hair. Now, they say that they know the identity of that the shooter, but have not released that identity to the public yet. We also don't know any of the names of the victims yet either, Emma. And I think all of this is compounding this really enormous sense of shock right across the country.
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A
And it is a shock that has been reflected by the reaction of the prime minister, Mark Carney. He was due to be on a plane going to Munich. He has chosen to stay in the country.
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D
He has. And he was giving his reaction to reporters in Ottawa a little earlier, and he was fighting back the tears. Emma, it was a very moving statement that he gave, saying that the nation mourns with you. And he listed off the number of countries, the leaders of countries who had reached out to him. King Charles apparently personally gave him a call. As far as I understand it, the leaders of India and others. Notably absent is the leader of Canada's large neighbor, President Donald Trump, who has dragged Canada once again into a big row over a new international bridge between the state of Michigan and the province of Ontario. And he has not, as far as I understand it, Emma, publicly anyway, expressed his condolences for this horrendous tragedy that's befallen western Canada.
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A
Briefly focusing on Canada itself. This is not some this is not a story that you expect to come from Canada.
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D
It's incredibly rare. And I think, Emma, that's why the shock is just so profound, particularly that this is a town, as I said, of around 2,400 people. And we've heard from political leaders and a school student who was inside the building at the time on Canadian radio, speaking a little earlier today, you know, saying that the fact with these small towns that everyone has will likely have some kind of connection or knowledge of everyone involved in the tragic events that unfolded around lunchtime local time, overnight night in the UK and, you know, you can maybe count on one hand the kind of loss of life involving guns in Canada, 1989 in Montreal, the Polytechnique there, which is still commemorated every year on December 6th in Canada. And also then in 2020, a gun rampage in Nova Scotia that claimed 22 lives. And these awful events in Tumblr Ridge now adding to that very short but grim list.
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A
Thomas Lewis in Toronto, thank you so much indeed for joining us on the Let me bring you in now, Daniela, the idea that when tragedy befalls a community, befalls a nation, there is a deep desire to look for coherence, isn't there?
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B
There is. There is, and I think partly there is a script that there's an expectation that everyone will follow, including the media. You know, you have to be standing outside the hospital or outside the site of a tragedy when you're doing your piece to camera. But I think there is also a genuine emotional reaction no matter how cynical you are. I remember after the seven, seven attacks here, there was a, a moment of silence where people actually came out of their houses and, and their shops and they stood in solidarity, you know, against hate. After the, the suicide bombings that killed so many people, I think that's a rare example where things, they have a sort of popular and common meaning. And we had the same thing in during COVID here where people would go out and bang pots and pans for the NHS every Thursday. I believe it was these gestures that bring people together in a small but quite meaningful way.
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A
And bringing you in, Ben, on this one, the idea that because Canada is so unused to this, you, the spotlight focuses on national identity, doesn't it? If you're generally a peace abiding nation, you know, how do you even begin to navigate this? I mean, the rituals that we expect are coming together. But, you know, one wonders what is happening right now says about the way that Canada is the fact that Mark Carney has decided not to go to Munich, he's staying in the country. It's, you cannot say that this is a political gesture. You have to say that this is a human one or a Canadian one.
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C
Yeah, well, your reporter there mentioned that there was no comment from the US and of course they're much more used to it there and they have a very standard response there which tends to be sort of thoughts and prayers and very sadly just sort of move on with it. I feel like Canada is much closer to a different phrase that comes to mind which is kind of a this is not who we are, you know, where you kind of have to say this is an anomaly. We don't usually see this and I think maybe that's why they have to make more of a show of things. He's staying at home, etc. Because if you go on as business, as normal, it implies this kind of thing is a normality and it's not, it shouldn't be anywhere, but it certainly isn't in Canada, as you point out. And so that's why even though it is slightly performative, that's partly what leaders are for. They are there to sort of perform what they want to reflect back to the country.
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A
I wonder whether there's also the, the thought, Daniela, that when Donald Trump decides not to say anything, that is as much of a sort of a statement rather than an acceptance that what happens in America is normal. But when, you know, when you talk about behavioral experts, you say that, you know, society cannot be indifferent when something. This happens. If you, if for example, you chat through the minute silence or whatever. That is a sign of a phenomenal disrespect. Level of disrespect for, for human tragedy.
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B
Oops. I mean, the thing is that sometimes you have so many minutes of silence that it just becomes a bit much and then becomes two minutes. And then if you're, if you' at work or if you're not really related to this, there is definitely an overkill. But I think it also speaks to the kind of society and how unusual this is. You know, in, in America, these public mass shootings are just. They're not something unusual in Canada, they're incredibly unusual in the UK as well. I mean, I think we can sort of, we, we can name on, you know, count them on the, on the fingers of one hand at all. You know, by commemorating them as something unusual, you're also saying this is a problem and this is an issue that we have to. I don't think that's where America is really when it comes to gun crime.
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A
But that determination to change, we saw it in Australia, didn't we, in December when there was a shooting at Bondi beach, that a beat was taken, the necessary pause for the shock to come in was accepted and absorbed. But then the politicians said, we must do something to change this now. And given the fact that Canada has managed to navigate a nation of hunters, shooters and fishers, plenty of gun possession and for this to be quite rare, you wonder at what point the question will be asked what reforms are needed.
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C
Well, yeah, and by all accounts, it was the 2020 killings in Canada that triggered this huge change. You know, a ban on lots of different types of assault weapons, an amnesty for guns, etc. That was their big move, akin to what happened here in the UK in 96 after Don Blaine, akin to what you're describing in Australia. So really, I suppose the question would be more of a case of, well, what can Canada do next? You know, they've done the big bit before. Where do you go on from there? And actually, that will give some credit to the kind of critics in America who will say it's not guns that are the problem. You see, you tried it. They're still going to get through.
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B
I think in Australia as well, there was a very specific issue, is that it was Jewish people who were targeted and killed celebrating a festival. I think when you have a situation, and I'm not too clear of the details of what happened in Canada, there's a much more amorphous cause and it's a much Much harder to actually take action, to take actions to prevent it happening again.
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A
And one wonders, one fears that the focus on this will be the fact that, okay, we don't have anybody identified yet. But the one thing that is remarkable unusual about this story is the fact that, well, plenty unusual things happening. But the fact that the suspect is believed to be a woman.
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B
Yep. Speechless to that.
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C
Yeah. I mean there's quite a few things sort of swirling around online about the shooter's identity. There's no point in speculating about it pre, but I think that person and that person's background and what drove them will be possibly the main narrative, as you say, to kind of give some sort of reason, some sort of understanding which is to go back to your initial point, what people are looking for when they look to leaders.
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A
Thirteen minutes past six here in London. Now let's move on to Ukraine because in two years, Russia, two weeks, I should say. Russia's full scale invasion of Ukraine will enter its fifth year. When the tanks rolled across the border in February 2022, Kyiv's government went on a war footing with President Zeled Zelensky placing himself front and center as leader both domestically and internationally. But despite the constant bombardments, an estimated 55,000 soldiers killed, and not to mention the thousands of civilians, normal life is getting in the way. And there are reports that President Zelensky is to announce an election. All these have been denied tonight by Kyiv at Daniela Institute of War and Peace reporting that that idea that you can be in full conflict and yet that parallel world of just getting on with everyday life and everyday politics doesn't really go away.
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B
Well, gosh, I mean, I work very, very intensely on Ukraine and our Ukrainian team is astonishing. You know, they're working under the most ridiculous conditions from houses that have got no windows because they've been blown out in bomb strikes, freezing cold conditions, mid displacement amid trauma. You know, they're part of the community that is suffering the conflict as it's so often the case with local journalists. So the media is carrying on. The media in Ukraine is also continuing to hold the government to account. We've had numerous anti corruption exposes as well. But life is not normal. And the idea that you can hold elections under these circumstances has got so many, so many issues to it. Legal, practical, I mean, can you do it?
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A
I mean, how do you actually literally.
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B
Go about building the polling stage under martial law? You can't. And also what do you do about the diaspora? You have millions of people who've left. You have people in Exile. You don't have the capacity in Ukrainian embassies and. And delegations around the world to institute that. Online and postal voting has incredible vulnerabilities when it comes to fraud. We can imagine that there will be huge Russian interference in any election, as we do see elections around the world, especially within their orbit. What about the occupied territories? How do you vote? How do you vote there? There are, you know, numerous, numerous obstacles. And yet at the same time, it's hard to see how Zelenskyy will avoid this, not least because there has been talk of instituting a referendum on a peace deal as well. You know, there's. He. He's been attacked by Russia and others, is illegitimate because elections are overdue. And how do you make these potentially bruising concessions in a peace deal without putting it to a public vote, by the way? That might not be enough, because what you could have in a peace agreement might not be legal according to the constitution. So you have layer upon layer here of legal difficulty.
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A
Indeed, and it does. How much do you believe then that this sort of really messes with the prospect of a peace deal? I mean, Daniela was talking there about the fact that Russia, Russia has been saying that Zelenskyy is ineligible to be president because he is. He's exceeded his democratic remit. But the fact remains is that one really wonders what good could come out of this election.
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C
Yeah, there's kind of two things at play, isn't there? There's the need for fresh elections just because that's what the country deserves and they should get at the end of a war when we feel we're at the end of the war. And then there's the issue of Zelenskyy himself. You know, he has been a figure, as you say, he's now been called illegitimate. This time last year, he was saying, I'm happy to stand going to facilitate a peace deal. He sees himself as someone who. He knows the Russians don't like him. There's a lot of people in America, in the countries that back him, that think he's a negative character or corrupt or et cetera. So you've got these two things going side by side. But I mean, surely you also have to look at the fact that if there's a peace deal and it's put to a referendum whether or not the Ukrainian people accept that, you've then also got to have a president who's going to take that forward. Right. You can't have someone who then doesn't agree with that. So elections all on the same Day doesn't seem like it's going to be, you know, something that works. You've got to have someone who will say, I'll carry out the will of the people, you know, and back that.
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A
And the fact that Keith tonight is saying, actually, we're not calling for election. This is, you know, this is not a correct report. That doesn't necessarily take away the narrative, because the minute you mention it, off you go.
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B
But not just the narrative. I mean, they're not planning to announce anything, but obviously they have been planning, they have been looking at contingency plans for how, you know, the government will keep its legitimacy for how you can have consensus about any peace deal. I mean, these are really, really thorny subjects. Even after a peace deal. How do you have, how do you have elections when you have a huge diaspora and you have displacement? And how. What will be the status of people in the occupied territories? And there will be elections at some point. Point. How do you guard yourself against Russian hybrid war which very much extends to elections? This is certainly a subject of discussion and this is certainly a subject of planning.
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A
And one wonders where the pressure is coming from. Obviously, you've mentioned the idea of Moscow trying to push Zelensky to one side. The Ukrainians themselves have had to see their president go from war hero to man, battling internal corruption among his closest. And then also the United States. We never know what reception Zelenskyy is going to get when he walks into the Oval Office. So whichever direction in which Zelenskyy and his team turn, nothing really points to a successful election, even were he to win another term.
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C
Yeah, because some people will not be happy with that. From the Financial Times report that sparked this today, it was sort of saying that it was the US that was pressuring to have fresh elections from their side. I think they're very keen on that sort of of refresh, hard reset for Ukraine. And I don't think they've ever delayed elections themselves. They seem to have no sympathy for the fact that that happens during war times.
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A
But the time here in London is 19 minutes past six. 18:19. You're listening to the Monocle Daily with me, Emma Nelson. Now, the Israeli Prime Minister is in Washington today. Quite what Benjamin Netanyahu wishes to achieve from his talks with Donald Trump is in question. But he will no doubt be keen to have his voice heard when it comes to the talks between the US And Iran last week. Daniela, this is what, what visit number six for or trip or encounter number six?
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B
Seven.
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C
Wow.
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B
Even. I mean, this is multiple this is a lot of visits.
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A
He's getting his loyalty points on the airplanes.
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B
He is, he is. But this visit has been kind of subdued so far, not much fanfare. I mean, he's due to come again in a couple of weeks. So, yeah, I mean, he's sort of ushering himself in. The understanding is he's really trying to get involved in this potential Iran deal, potential Iran talks. And Netanyahu will surprise. No one here wants Trump to take a maximalist view of this. You know, he's there to say, look, no compromise, please, just carry on, carry on. You know, Netanyahu has been really fixated on Iran for the last 20, 25 years. And he wants no concessions. He wants the version of the nuclear deal. He wants to include, like, no uranium, no ballistic missiles. He wants no support for militias around the world. You know, his shopping list is long. And it's unclear whether President Trump has got the patience to read to the bottom of it.
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A
Indeed. And that's the key issue here, isn't it? Because when you have the United States and Iran having their conversations in Iran, that's obviously going to cause jitters with Netanyahu at el. But it is that moment when, for whatever reason, and whether this is actually clearly thought through, Donald Trump's government could in fact do something genuinely peaceful here, whether he's actually aware of it or not, or whether he's just pushing for the voice of the last person he heard.
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C
Well, the question is, what kind of mood has Trump been on this, really? Because he famously told the Norwegians just about three weeks ago, I'm finished with peace now, because you didn't give me that prize in that letter that he wrote to the pm. You never quite know what tack he's going to take. He has seemingly been very bullish of late. Venezuela strike and obviously sending over this USS Lincoln to sort of loom around Iran. He's certainly threatening. But you do also get the impression that he would quite like the praise that would come with peace at any given point, if he can pull it off.
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A
And is there, am I right in thinking, Daniela, that Benjamin Netanyahu is due in court this week?
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B
When is he not due in court? I was going to say, yeah, he's due in court. There's going to be elections. He's really not popular. And I think what's. What's interesting about this as well is I think probably opponents of both men of Netanyahu and Trump probably think that the two are best buddies. And, you know, they're in lockstep when it comes to their worldview. And I think this, you know, Netanyahu's nervousness shows that this isn't necessarily necessarily the case. And Trump has been critical of him as well and certainly is Netanyahu, who is perpetually in trouble at home, not just just legally, but also in terms of popularity and numerous demands to have an inquiry into how the security failings of October 7th happened. I think Trump is going to see that. Well, you know what, this guy is not necessarily my best ally. He doesn't always get things right and he's not asking for things that are going to be in my best interests. And also, Trump wants the Gaza post conflict. I'm doing my, my wiggly fingers here.
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A
She is.
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B
Yeah, I am. The peace, the peace plan to be a peace plan to work. And Netanyahu is putting in spoilers at every point. He's not happy with it. He's not happy with the Board for Peace. He's not happy that, you know, Hamas needs to be completely disarmed before the reconstruction. So, you know, Trump is not going to be endlessly patient with him.
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A
But with the. Just staying with you, Daniel, but with the balance of power, clearly with Donald Trump, there is nonetheless that feeling that Netanyahu does what he wants. So there is, you know, we have military action in the likes of Lebanon, Syria against Iran as well. The fact that Netanyahu, who's very prepared for Israel to go it alone, I.
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B
Mean, it's a feeling, right? And it's a feeling that I think that Netanyahu incubates as well. Like for a long time, his USP is that he is the guy that will stand up to the American president, to the rest of the world, never mind the UN and the eu. You Gosh. But this is also slightly illusory. I think last the summer war with Iran might have ended somewhat differently had the Americans not stepped in. The rules do apply to some extent. You know, this is really, he's giving the impression that he can do what he wants. But, you know, it's not endless. It's not endless for Netanyahu. And with his eyes also set, set on his own personal political survival, I think he's ready to make some. There's some wiggle room there, Ben.
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C
The only thing I was going to add to that was it'll also be interesting to see what comes out of this vis a vis Gaza, if there's anything on that front as well. Because like you say, Trump has got this sort of the Board of Peace that he's Very invested in. They've got these plans for great reconstruction, et cetera. So that's something I'll be keen to see. And just generally how they speak when they come out, if they do. Join presser. Trump's body language never lies.
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A
Finally, for our panel at the Winter Olympics, in addition to all the gorgeous action on the slopes, we've been treated to this.
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E
So today I made the choice to tell the world what I did. So maybe, maybe there's a chance that she will show, see what she really means to me and maybe not. But I don't want to think I didn't try everything to get her back. So, yeah, again, Johan, I don't want to steal the show today. I hope this is just like a day or two long thing and then your Olympic gold medalist forever.
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A
30 toes have just curled and fingers. Oh, goodness me.
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B
Right.
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A
If you had not been treated to that particular audio gem that was stole Holm legreit, who's a normal Norwegian athlete, who until that delightful interview, would have been forever remembered as a bronze medalist in this year's men's 20 kilometer biathlon at the Winter Olympics. Instead, as we have just heard, he chose his moment in the spotlight to confess that he'd not only cheated on his girlfriend, but that he wants her back. Daniela, are we taking him back?
- [26:28]
B
It's not. I mean, as gestures go, it's. I wouldn't say it had the sort of tinge of romance, actually thinking about Cossi Francutti. It's that kind of, you know, Neanderthal and sort of patriarchal move of.
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A
Yeah, no, I'd have gone for the Mozart over that, frankly.
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B
Well, yeah, he could have. He could have just dropped to one knee and done some singing. I mean, that would have been probably not effective, but probably about a bit stiff after biathlon.
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A
Easier to delay. Needs a bit of a rub down. Look, just listening to this. I mean, Stoleham Lagreg not only screwed up his girlfriend's life, clearly to the degree where he had to go on the telly and beg for it back, but also he was a bronze medalist, his Norwegian teammate won the gold. And you know, this gentleman was bereft of a moment in the spotlight. I mean, one wonders whether the word narcissist can be introduced into this one. Not that I'm a psychotherapist, but to have that total sense of self focus, I just thought. Could you not just read the room?
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C
Well, you know, I might say a word in his defense, it was his moments. He did win a medal.
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B
Okay.
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C
I did Kind of think, you know, there's something sweet in this. Maybe he's not the most emotionally astute. He's taken his moment. It's not as bad as some of those, you know. Whenever you see, like, a woman finishing a marathon or getting graduated, and the man uses that moment to propose to her, that's the worst. That is her moment. What are you doing? And they keep doing it. At least here he's only wasting his own time, mostly.
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A
You've made a very good point there, Ben. When the man owns the moment, that's grim. And what's quite good is that this woman. I don't know. When you look at crisis communications and you think, when is a good or bad time to speak, one wonders whether she should have kept quiet. She has discreetly said it's gonna take quite a lot to get him back. No, Dan is wording it, but she's not even speaking. This is quite hard for a radio program, Daniel.
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B
Yeah, true. I mean, really, though. Really, though. I mean, it's the sort of thing that just sort of strikes you dumb, really.
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A
Okay, maybe we shouldn't have chosen this, but actually, he wants to talk about being a good role model. And I wonder whether we can come back to you, Ben, on this one. The fact that he wants to be a role model, yet for now on, he will. That's it. He's done. He's forever associated as being that man who did that interview. I mean, he's actually done for himself forever now, hasn't he? That's how he's now going to be defined.
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C
I don't know. I mean, do people remember winter athletes, by and large?
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A
I mean, not unless they start to ask with their girlfriends back on the radio.
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C
That's a good point.
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E
Yeah.
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B
He could make a second career as, you know, an agony aunt or a bro agony aunt, or he could write a book about his experience. I think there is. I think there is, you know, not. Perhaps not in winter sports, but I think there is. There is room to explore.
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A
Okay, so this actually could be his moment when. So Daniela Pellet is now leaving the Institute of War and Peace Reporting and is now going to become Sturlaholm Lagrid's agent and is now going to do that thing where actually having not only screwed up his girlfriend's life, he's screwed up the moment of his teammate, he will now actually make an absolute shedload of cash after being that man.
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B
Life is unfair.
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A
Who did that thing? I mean, we do have to ask you, actually. We have to ask the uncomfortable questions. Have you ever done anything like this? I mean, obviously neither of you won any Olympic medals. Not to my knowledge. You might have done. Apologies, but is there anything that you have done publicly that you just thought, oh, maybe Mike shouldn't have done that?
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B
I mean, almost everything I do publicly, there's a lot of token. I think the things we do privately, there's the most sort of unspeakable, really.
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A
Which is why they say private. How about you, Ben? No.
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C
Although I do. When I was younger, I was very prone to sort of, you know, lengthy Valentine's cards. Poems. Songs.
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A
Songs.
- [30:15]
C
Yeah.
- [30:15]
B
Yeah.
- [30:15]
C
I have an artistic streak and some people were sadly burdened with those in my youth.
- [30:22]
A
You don't need to tell us who exactly got the song. You can keep it sort of, you know, for reasons of anonymity. Then we can just envy discretion and just to be kind. But what were the songs about?
- [30:31]
C
Well, you know, love, undying love. You know, I was talking like 13, 14, 15.
- [30:36]
B
I think this reflects quite well on you though, actually.
- [30:39]
C
I mean, I'm sure a lot of people did that, right. You know, but never wrote a song. Some people are still doing it and making millions from it. That's the really sad story.
- [30:46]
A
And did you. Did it ever pay off?
- [30:50]
C
I don't know if it was ever impressive. No, no, not that. Not that good. No.
- [30:53]
A
Never. Never got lucky due to. Due to an impromptu song?
- [30:57]
C
No.
- [30:58]
A
And that's a lesson to a song. Anything. Anything we wish to confess now, seeing as we are on a public, you know, in an international broadcasting context. So is there anything. Any sort of like late night trysts in wine bars or secretive trips to the opera or anything else?
- [31:13]
B
There is something late night that I. I can confess to, which is that I'm absolutely physically and morally incapable of passing a can of squirty cream without sending some straight into my.
- [31:23]
A
That's not a confession. That's a. That's a value.
- [31:25]
B
Is it? Is it? In my household we have to have a system of post it notes and digital scales. Like to keep actual monitoring on this if. If ever the said squirty cream is. Is bought.
- [31:36]
A
Daniela, you're beyond. You are beyond untouched by sin. How about you?
- [31:40]
C
Well, sticking with the dairy theme, I do have a confession of my own to make because I. Of my husband's yogurts from the fridge this morning. It's not mine. It was his. And I. I took that. I stole it. And so that's my.
- [31:54]
A
You can't give it back. Are you going to replace it you don't actually look that repentant.
- [31:58]
C
Well, this is radio, so I'll have to, they have to take your word for that.
- [32:02]
A
Do you know it's Valentine's Day this Saturday? You know what you need to do? Buy yogurt, write a song. I'll give that too. Ben Kelly and Daniela Pellet, thank you so much for joining me in the studio and thank you for bearing your, your dairy related souls. Finally on today's program, Monocle is in Milan this week. And next, and on the third edition of our Olympic show, Monocle in Milan, our host Ed Stocker heard from Edward Barber, co founder of Barber J Osgobi Design Studio. Ed began by asking Edward how he decides his project.
- [32:34]
F
You know, sometimes you have an idea for a project or you know, a lamp or a chair or something and you, you'll take that to a manufacturer and then other times they got plans for you and you'll be approached in Milan During Salonia in 2010, Sony Japan contacted us and said, you know, we've got some interesting technology we'd like to show you and we want you to tell us how to bring it alive during Salerno. So that kind of project just comes out of the blue. And you know, also the Royal Mint years ago approached us and said, you know, would you be interested in doing a coin to celebrate 150 years?
- [33:08]
E
That's pretty cool.
- [33:10]
F
Well, yeah, I mean, so. So you just don't know what's next really, anything could happen.
- [33:15]
E
And is your kind of approach, given how diverse those things are from coins to chairs, as you said, to lighting, to doing something for Sony, do you always sort of approach the beginning of a project the same or not at all?
- [33:28]
F
I mean, it's a tricky question there. In a sense, we're quite pragmatic. We set out with a list of problems or things that we need to resolve and we work through the them pretty methodically. So they're all completely different. Some things happen really fast and some things take a really quite a long time. But I think the thing is that whatever the project is, whether it's a coin or a train or a chair, you know, we're the designers with the name at the end, you know, get the credit. But you know, you're always working with a really incredible team of people who do that, whatever that industry is, they do it every day of their lives, you know, so they're the experts and we just sort of, we're like the sort of conductor and they're the orchestra. We can't do Good things without them.
- [34:10]
E
Well, you said you haven't been in Milan that long, but I kind of feel you've sort of been adopted as an Italian, almost as a studio. You've worked with, you know, greats like BNB Italia, Floss, Multina. How did that Italian relationship evolve?
- [34:24]
F
I suppose. I mean, sadly, as a brick designer living in London, there's not so many kinds of companies in the UK who produce contemporary design. So you're forced to look outside of the UK and obviously Milan or Italy is one of the biggest manufacturers of contemporary design. So inevitably, you end up coming to Milan. And our first sort of lucky break, which was in 1997, I think, was Cappellini, who'd spotted something that we had shown during 100% designer actually on the wallpaper stand, and they said, oh, this is really interesting. And that was our. And so Julio Cappellini produced this table, the loop table, and that was our sort of opening into the Italian design. And we hadn't really planned it somehow, but that was a really great calling card because then other companies started seeing what we were doing. And then we've been coming backwards and forwards for nearly 30 years to Milan.
- [35:20]
E
And you've seen it change a lot.
- [35:22]
F
Imagine it's changed a lot. Well, first of all, everyone speaks English, which they couldn't in those days, which was kind of interesting. There was a lot more drawing and a lot more hand movement.
- [35:31]
E
So it's easier to develop projects now, you're saying.
- [35:33]
F
I don't know. I think it was quite nice. There's a little bit of room for interpretation. You know, there are a lot of mistakes and sometimes the mistakes are the best things. It's a fun city to come to. You know, Jay and I always used to joke that we always preferred working with Italians because the lunches were better. It's a great privilege to be working with some of the best international brands. Most of them, or lots of them, let's say, are based in the. In Italy.
- [35:56]
E
And tell me what you've got coming up. I know you were mentioning before, when we last met, some of the things you've got for Design Week. You sounded very busy.
- [36:05]
F
It's quite busy.
- [36:06]
C
It is.
- [36:07]
F
This year's quite, quite busy. We have. Well, we've got a number of projects coming up with some with new companies, some with existing relationships. Probably six or seven different projects, which probably not really supposed to talk about.
- [36:21]
E
But we've also been trying on this show to get people to spill the beans. Not working so far.
- [36:26]
F
They don't like you to discuss these things. But no, we have a new relationship with a new company which is Cartel, which is a really fantastic first project with them. It's going hopefully very well. We'll see see the results of that in April. But I think the main thing for us this year is that we are, we're having a retrospective show at the Triennale which opens in April, which is a big deal. It's a big deal. It's a real privilege, especially as a non Italian. It's quite a coup as well, I think.
- [36:52]
E
Yeah. Because they're normally pretty Italy focused.
- [36:55]
F
Well, they are. And I think the reason that we've got the show really is because we have worked so extensively in Italy. And thanks very much to Marco Sammichielli, the curator, for giving us the opportunity.
- [37:09]
E
I need to ask you about the Olympics a bit more before you go. Tell me about designing a torch for 2012. London.
- [37:18]
F
Yes, that was a really great project. I mean that was a great opportunity. I mean it wasn't a given, it was a competition. You know, it was a big competition. I mean every torch is a competition, international competition. Although I think 99% of the time the designer ends up being from the country of the games. Yeah, but it was a competition. It was a very hard fought competition. We were determined to win it. And I think the reason we got it was because it had a nice story to it. It had 8,000 perforations in the torch which represented each one of the runners. And it was a triangle of form which represented the three Olympic Games that had been in London. I was going to tell you the dates, but I can't remember. I think it was 1908, 1948 and 2012.
- [37:59]
E
I won't fact check you that immediately. It must have been such an honor though, seeing it on TV being carried around by athletes.
- [38:05]
F
It was nerve wracking actually, because obviously you don't want the flame to go out, which was partly our responsibility. Obviously we had engineers working on the burner for it. But the big moment for us really was watching the torch enter the arena at the opening ceremony, which is certainly a moment in my career that I won't forget.
- [38:23]
A
That was Edward Barber From Barber Osgobie Co. There, the CO founder there speaking to Monocle's Ed Stocker Olympic show. Monocle in Milan is live every weekday this week and next at 10:00am Milan time or wherever you get your podcasts. But that's all the time we have for today's edition of the Monocle Daily. A warm thanks to my panelists Daniela Peled and Ben Kelly, our producer, Chris Chermack and sound engineer, Lily Austin. For now, from me, Emma Nelson. Goodbye. Thank you very much for listening.