The Monocle Daily – Episode Summary

Episode Title: Solving conflict in the Middle East: How to break the deadlock
Date: November 11, 2025
Host: Andrew Muller
Guests: Julie Norman (UCL), Yossi Mekelberg (Chatham House), May Pundiak (Land for All), Rose George (author)

Overview

This episode of The Monocle Daily zeroes in on the seemingly endless deadlock in the Middle East, focusing on the aftermath of the war in Gaza. Through discussions with experts and correspondents, the show dissects the humanitarian crisis, prospects for rebuilding, enduring political challenges, fresh ideas for peace, and how global politics shapes everything. Alongside, the episode features book author Rose George for a deep dive into the complexities of global fishing, and ends with a lighter, yet philosophically charged, segment on pub quiz cheating.

1. Gaza: The Fragile Ceasefire and Uncertain Future

Timestamps: 03:14–10:40

Key Points:

• The ceasefire in Gaza is only tenuously holding, with recent reports of new casualties.
• No defined, actionable plan exists for the reconstruction or meaningful governance in Gaza.
• There is significant fear of a drift towards an indefinite, divided status quo: part of Gaza controlled by Israel, part by Hamas, with neither party keen or equipped for true rebuilding.

Notable Quotes:

• Yossi Mekelberg [04:08]:
  “It also is a worry that the interim becomes permanent, mainly because they can't move on... No one believes in this, that the interim doesn't end eventually as the permanent state... In Gaza, we are talking about a tiny, tiny territory... All of this, there are no details. And if they can't agree even of the mandate of the ISF, we probably will end in this temporary line remains for a very long time.”
• Julie Norman [06:42]:
  “We always knew that this next phase of moving from the initial hostage and prisoner release to this next phase was going to be the most difficult. And the reconstruction part was even more difficult... The US is a major actor here... The part that Trump is most interested in is the development aspect, the idea of having business interests there, having investments, some of these Trump visions of what Gaza could be. And so I do think there will be some private interest... but that side will be quite actively developed while leaving the half where most Gazans live... completely without anything. I worry about that increase of bifurcation not only in the conflict situation but the sense of economic development as well.”
• Yossi Mekelberg [08:22]:
  “What is the mandate of this force?...Is it a peacekeeping operation? Because peacekeeping operation assumes that there is peace, which is not the case. So it means that it monitors the lack of peace... some countries say, are you expecting us to actually start fighting, for instance, Hamas? Or if Israel violates it, are we going to try to take their weapons... I don’t see many countries I see volunteer to be part of it.”

Insight:
Both guests articulate deep pessimism about meaningful progress, noting that as long as the US—and, specifically, the current Trump administration—remains disengaged beyond symbolic gestures, the likelihood of real transition is slim. With huge reconstruction costs and high security risk, there’s broad acknowledgment that no outside power is eager to take a leading role.

2. The “Two States, One Homeland” Confederation Model

Timestamps: 10:40–18:43

Key Points:

• Monocle features May Pundiak, spokesperson for “Land for All,” who explains their vision: two sovereign states based on 1967 borders with shared institutions for issues like security, water, Jerusalem, and infrastructure.
• Panelists reflect on the practical and political viability of the confederation and other peace models, given the realities on the ground.

Notable Quotes:

• May Pundiak [11:02]:
  “What we are offering is what we call two states, one homeland, two states, two sovereign independent states—Israel and Palestine—with a clear border, 67 border. And on top of that... shared institutions to take care of the things that have to be taken care of, shared and jointly, without taking away from sovereignty... I would refer to France, Germany and the EU model as one inspiration...”

• Julie Norman [12:37]:
  “Almost any of the negotiated settlement solutions that we talk about for this conflict—none of them seem very realistic or feasible in the near term... the two state solution... is just by the day getting increasingly, increasingly difficult to manifest... So these new models, confederation... try and deal a bit more pragmatically with how the region is actually laid out now and where people are living.”

• Yossi Mekelberg [14:03]: “You can have a one state solution... by the right wing in Israel, meaning oppression of millions of Palestinians... Or you can have a one state solution in the spirit of Hamas, which means the other way operation, or you can have a one state solution... where everyone has the same rights—but I don’t think it’s realistic. So we end back in the two state solution, in one format... confederation is probably the way to move forward.”

Insight:
While the confederation model garners intellectual support, practical obstacles are overwhelming: settlement expansion, the lack of political will in Israel, and leadership on both sides unwilling to take necessary risks. Both Norman and Mekelberg stress that any viable model needs bold, visionary leadership—which is in short supply.

3. Leadership, Trump, and the U.S. Political Arena

Timestamps: 18:43–25:11

Key Points:

• Discussion turns to U.S. Congresswoman Marjorie Taylor Greene’s political maneuvers and what her apparent break from Trump signals.
• Parallels are drawn between far-right figures in Europe (like Le Pen and Meloni) and the U.S. context.
• Speculation about the future of the Trump movement and whether Greene is positioning herself ahead of a possible post-Trump era.

Notable Quotes:

• Andrew Muller [18:43]:
  “Congresswoman Marjorie Taylor Greene, Republican of the Georgia 14th, appears, all things considered, a voice of reason. And she is, at least when judged on the basis of her public utterances, as mad as a frog in a sock.”
• Julie Norman [19:40]:
  “She really does represent this idea of the populist America, this idea of isolationism, not getting involved overseas, not bending over for Israel, this idea of focusing on domestic... Trump really does not [represent that]... he moves where the wind is blowing him. She has pretty much stayed on that populist front.”
• Yossi Mekelberg [21:32]:
  “Here in Europe, we are not used to this kind of politicians. No, they look to us almost coming from a different planet... there is probably an inner core that is in her own world, is genuine... when she wants, like ensuring that everyone is going to have health care. That’s what she believes that Americans should have.”
• Julie Norman [23:33]:
  “A lot of these politicians start as being the contrarian... but then when they see that there is a large audience for their material, ... you start playing that politics game more Savvily. But ... in US politics... getting on the wrong side of Trump is not the way to move yourself up in the Republican Party right now.”
• Yossi Mekelberg [24:52]: “In 2016, we said two things about Brexit would never happen and Trump would never happen... We got it wrong... Maybe [Greene] sensed something is changing.”

Insight:
There’s recognition that the populist, nationalist wave isn’t unique to the U.S., with mechanisms in place for even fringe figures to gain traction if they sense a changing political wind. The panel expresses a mix of incredulity and caution about underestimating such political actors.

4. The Ethics of Pub Quiz Cheating

Timestamps: 26:04–30:59

Key Points:

• A discussion on a Manchester pub banishing a quiz team for cheating (using smartwatches), launched by news of their detection.
• Loosens the tone, but explores themes of honor, trivial victories, and British cultural mores.

Notable Quotes:

• Julie Norman [26:51]:
  “As a champion of the pub quiz. Cheating in the pub quiz is just. You just cannot do worse than that. I feel like wherever the dungeon is... send these people to, whatever punishment's available, we should dole them out.”
• Andrew Muller [27:16]:
  “There is no creature lower than the person who cheats at a pub quiz. I mean, honestly, that is when you find out how honourable people really are.”
• Yossi Mekelberg [27:46]:
  “In a moment of confession, I never cheated in a pub quiz... But the confession that I never won a pop quiz... there is an element of public humiliation in this.”

Memorable Moment:
Muller’s anecdote about a pub quiz controversy over the largest animal predator native to the UK—his table’s correct answer (“seal”) shouted down by a quizmaster insisting on “badger”—elicits laughter and shared indignation among guests.

• Andrew Muller [30:13]:
  “Obviously it's the seal. And we were overruled by a pub quiz master who said it was the badger.”

Insight:
Amid weighty global issues, even a story about pub quiz cheating serves as a window into national character and the search for meaning in community rituals.

5. Rose George on the Global Fishing Industry

Timestamps: 31:49–38:33

Key Points:

• Rose George discusses her new book Every Last Fish, tackling the little-known realities of the fishing industry: its lack of regulation, environmental abuses, and the overlooked complexity and sentience of fish.
• George reflects candidly on her struggles researching the book, given her vegetarianism, seasickness, and moral discomfort—setting up a relatable narrative.

Notable Quotes:

• Rose George [31:49]:
  “I thought I would go back to fishing and have had a few regrets along the way because they were right. It is a tricky industry to get your head around. And as a prone to seasickness vegetarian, I possibly wasn't the most ideal person to go to sea fishing. But yeah, I did it and I learned a lot. I'm kind of glad I don't eat fish after all I learned.”
• Rose George [34:25]:
  “90% of fish stocks are either depleted or overexploited or in a sorry state in one way or another. 90%. ... There are 4 million fishing vessels in the world and nearly half of them are tiny, half probably don't even have an engine. So it's a small proportion of the fishing fleet that is wreaking the most damage to fish populations. ... Chinese fleet is massively subsidized by governments.”
• Rose George [36:58]:
  “I started to call [fish] portable food units... If you think of the French or even German, or even seafood. I mean, that's kind of vague, isn't it? ... They’re seen as equivalent to a potato. And they're not. They're exciting, extraordinary creatures. ... Some species of wrasse are cleverer than rats. And this was all a revelation to me.”

Insight:
George’s investigation exposes both environmental and ethical crises within the global fishing sector, highlighting just how little we know about the sentient, complex lives of fish. Her personal foray as an unwilling participant aboard trawlers brings humor and humanity to the exposure.

Episode Highlights & Memorable Moments

• On endless interim solutions:
  Yossi Mekelberg [04:17]:
  “Definitely not the first time in the Middle East that that's happened.”
• On pub quiz cheating:
  Andrew Muller [27:16]:
  “There is no creature lower than the person who cheats at a pub quiz.”
• On fish intelligence:
  Rose George [37:04]:
  “They have fish choruses and some species of wrasse are cleverer than rats.”

Recommended Segments to Listen To

• Reconstruction and political deadlock in Gaza: 03:14–10:40
• Discussion of the “two states, one homeland” model: 10:40–18:43
• Rose George on fish and the global fishing industry: 31:49–38:33

Conclusion

This episode deftly unpacks the stalemate in Gaza, the realities of political inertia, and the limited prospects for peace without visionary leadership. It injects nuance through discussion of pragmatic, if ambitious, peace models, and draws sobering parallels across global politics. Interspersed is the humor and humanity Monocle is known for, whether in tales of pub quiz rule-breaking or Rose George’s intrepid fishing adventures. It's an episode that manages to be both deeply sobering and wryly entertaining.