← The Monocle Daily
The Monocle Daily
The war in Iran’s effect on Ukraine. And: Universal healthcare as a moral imperative
00:35:38
Loading summary
Transcript72 lines
- [00:00]
A
You're listening to the Monocle Daily, first broadcast on the 18th of March, 2026 on Monocle Radio. Further situations vacant in Iranian high command. President Volodymyr Zelensky says Ukraine won't have enough missiles. But Europe may soon have too many of the wrong kind of drones. And Poland becomes the latest country to return its school kids to the analogue. I'm Andrew Muller. The Monocle Daily starts.
- [00:32]
B
Foreign
- [00:36]
A
hello and welcome to the Monocle Daily. Coming to you from our studios here at Midori House in London. I'm Andrew Muller. My guests Tira Shubhat and Ash Bardwaj will discuss today's big stories. And we'll have a dispatch from the recent MIPIM Urbanism Fair in Cannes. Stay tuned. All that and more coming up right here on the Monocle Daily. This is the Monocle Daily. I'm Andrew Muller and I am joined today by Tira Schubart, fellow of the Royal Astronomical Society and ambassador for the Science Museum. And by Ash Bardwaj, journalist and author of why We Travel. Hello to you both.
- [01:15]
C
Hello.
- [01:15]
B
Hello.
- [01:16]
A
Tira, first of all, I understand that you are employing, well, not really employing, but sort of consulting Egyptian geese as augurs of the imminent weather.
- [01:27]
B
Ah, yes. Those Egyptian geese that have transferred their allegiance to the UK a while back are somewhere around the Serpentine Lake where I swim every morning in the center of Hyde Park. And they had a flock of eight little gooselings. Goslings. Goslings, goslings. And apparently this is early. And a wildlife person leaned over my shoulders. I was photographing them. And he said, this means spring will be warm and early.
- [01:54]
A
When you say wildlife person, is this somebody professionally qualified and in to deal with Hyde Park's wildlife or somebody who literally lives in the park among the trees, plants and animals?
- [02:06]
B
Well, you never know because among the Serpentine Swimming Club, there are many people that are great experts. They may not be official ones, but they usually are. Right. In my experience.
- [02:17]
A
Was he perhaps raised by geese?
- [02:20]
B
Looking at his demeanor, that could have been a possibility.
- [02:24]
A
I mean, Ash, there is, I'm sure, an absolutely hilarious story, satirical link from Tiara's interactions with geese to where you have been today. But let's rise majestically above it. What were you doing at Westminster?
- [02:37]
C
I was at Parliament today for English Tourism Week. It is English Tourism Week.
- [02:41]
A
Well, happy English Tourism Week to all our listeners who celebrate.
- [02:45]
C
And I think it will be a good one. The black Bull Tower is being lit up red and white, and it's just a way to sort of talk about England as a domestic tourism destination, but also to improve international tourism. And, you know, it's a. It's a great country to travel and I think it's easy to talk it
- [02:59]
A
down, but it's fun, go nuts. Pick one place in England that you would earnestly recommend people visit oh, Battle down in Sussex.
- [03:08]
C
I think it's a gorgeous place and it's some fascinating history. Next year is the millionaire. So it's a thousand years since the birth of William the Conqueror. So they will be doing lots of stuff in all the places that the Normans I was about to interfered with but got involved in. So you've got Gibraltar, you've got Jersey, you've got Hastings, you've got obviously Denmark, Norway, but all the way down to Sicily as well.
- [03:33]
A
Battle we will start with the ongoing U. S. Israeli action against Iran and the reverberations thereof. Iran has confirmed the death in an Israeli airstrike of yet another senior figure, Minister of Intelligence Ismail Khatib, who joins Basij militia commander Gholam Reza Soleimani and National Security Council secretary Ali Larijani as casualties of the last 24 hours alone. By way of retaliation, Iran has launched missiles bearing cluster warheads at Israel. These killed two people and injured several others in Ramat Gan, on the outskirts of Tel Aviv. In other developments, a petrochemical plant on Iran's south pas gas field has been struck, apparently also by Israel, in return for which Iran is threatening further vengeance. Tira, we are now approaching three weeks of this. Is it any clearer how or indeed where this is going?
- [04:24]
B
Well, no, as a very interesting piece in the New Yorker pointed out, is that Trump seems to be bombing first and strategizing later. I don't think we've gotten to the later part yet, but they do eliminate leaders at an enormous pace. I mean, today was the funeral of Larajani and Soleimani, and the next, whoever is named next, if they do name them, is going to be a target. And the successor to the supreme leader, his son is being kept well hidden away because at some point you have to have somebody to negotiate with. Who's it going to be? And how long would you sell life insurance to that person?
- [05:08]
A
Not too much. Tyler Khamenei. And there are, of course, suggestions, Ash, that he may be past the point where life insurance is any use to him. But is it objectively weird that we still have not even seen footage of him holding up this morning's Tehran Times and saying, hey, it's me, I'm fine.
- [05:26]
C
I don't Know, if it's objectively weird, I suppose that would have a strong strategic communications effect of reassurance for the people of Iran who they're supposedly representing. On the flip side, did you see the Dubai Prime Minister in Dubai, Mal, just walking around as a way of reassuring people, look, Dubai is safe and secure. So there is something that they are missing out with that opportunity. Is it because he's so heavily injured that he isn't able to. The news was coming up from. I can't remember who reported it. Was it the Economist or the Financial Times yesterday, that he had literally just stepped outside the bunker when the airstrike happened and that was the only reason he'd survived. And who knows quite what condition he's in. I can't really imagine any other reason why they wouldn't have already done some kind of announcement of him on the tv.
- [06:14]
A
I mean, are we witnessing, Tira, something completely new here in the history of warfare enabled by precision technology, reconnaissance, obviously a certain amount of on the ground intelligence? I struggle to recall another interstate conflict in history where so many individual members of a country's high command have been wiped out in the early weeks.
- [06:40]
B
Yeah, I can't recall when either. And that is down to two things. Number one, the incredible precision of Earth observation that we can now do from satellites and in a very, very high resolution. And the Israelis have access to some of the very, very best, and they make some of the very, very best. But there must be remarkable intelligence on the ground. And in fact, it was. I think this week. The Iranians have executed somebody who they claim was a Mossad intelligence officer. They have. They have always had. The Israelis have always, historically had excellent intelligence in Iran. And they were the ones that actually were telling the Americans back in 1978, there's going to be big trouble here. The Shah is very shaky. They gave some excellent intelligence even then. So that intelligence network that they have obviously has somehow kept going.
- [07:40]
A
One of the presumable ash consequences of this is that those members of the Iranian high command who are still with us will be eyeing each other up fairly suspiciously at this point, each of them wondering why they haven't been targeted. And if I've thought of that, I assume Mossad thought of that as part of the point of this. But as Tira was saying earlier, at some point, surely you have to decide to leave somebody alone so you can talk about what the future is? Or are we seeing here another demonstration of the theory which is taking hold and which was the subject of last weekend's Foreign Desk. This idea that the United States and Israel, whether or not the United States fully understands this, are actually fighting two different wars. The United States says it wants an Iran it can deal with. Israel just wants chaos.
- [08:28]
C
Yeah, and I think that's probably true. And it does seem quite clear that Trump doesn't know what he wants this war for. There was the story of the day after the beginning of this particular conflict war, that he was calling around all the different reporters and effectively testing out different narratives, concepts, theories and strategies for the war, almost to see which landed and which got the best response.
- [08:54]
A
Something you'd reckon you'd do first.
- [08:56]
C
I mean, you would really hope so. And if you think about the theory of war, you've got the moral, physical and conceptual component of fighting power. That's how you physically win the war. But going all the way back to war theoreticians like Clausewitz, war is an extension of politics by the means. The idea is to compel the enemy to do what you want them to do. It's a battle of wills. But it doesn't. I still don't know what Trump's United States wants Iran to do. I don't know what they're trying to change. I understand what the Israelis are trying to change for the Israelis. They just simply don't want anything that could threaten them existentially. I really get that. But I don't have any idea what Donald Trump or anyone else in that administration wants, and I don't think anybody does, really. They've not made it at all clear. They've talked very clearly about killing particular leaders, destroying the military, physical component of fighting power, but for what aim? Still, we're none the wiser. And as you say, at some point you're going to have to negotiate with somebody if you have an aim that you want to achieve. But if you don't know what the aim is, then that doesn't matter.
- [10:04]
B
And the poor Iranian people don't have any idea either. The ones that have been hugely opposed to the regime, the ones that went out on the streets and were killed in numbers that we still don't know, whether they're between 5,000 and 30,000, depending on the source. But the UNHCR has come out and said that that there's up to 1 million households that could be as more than 3 million people displaced within Iran. So they're probably wondering exactly those same questions that you bring up, Ash, and
- [10:37]
C
he is absolutely trying to set the conditions to blame somebody else for his inability to strategize in advance first of all saying the Iranian people need to rise up against this regime. Well, if 20 to 30 to some estimates of 50,000 were murdered at the beginning of the year by the regime that has lost not only its momentum but its most charismatic and enthusiastic leaders. So that's not going to happen. And then this whole thing about the Straits of Hummus, Europeans need to get it open so he can blame Europe if the straits don't open. It's yeah, just so Trumpian.
- [11:08]
A
Well, to Ukraine now, the president of which, Volodymyr Zelensky is touring Europe attempting to focus the attention of his fellow continental leaders not only on the ongoing threat menacing his country, but the potential threat which could menace everyone's. On the first score, Zelensky has spoken of his worries that the war in the Middle east may dry up supplies of the American missile on which Ukraine has relied. He noted that on the first day of hostilities with Iran, the US launched the equivalent of its entire annual production of Patriot air defense missiles. Zelenskyy has also warned, probably depressingly correctly, that the drone warfare waged against his country and more recently, Iran's neighbours could be coming for all of us. Ash, first of all, and this is a four year old question by now, should Europe actually be doing more to help Ukraine?
- [11:56]
C
100 and it should be doing things like not helping the Russians by opening a oil pipeline into Hungary, using EU funding to make that happen, which is currently what is happening. Viktor Orban, the leader of Hungary, is effectively holding the funds that the European Union is to give to Ukraine to ransom because there's an oil on that the Russians damaged, that brings oil into Ukraine, into Hungary, from Ukraine. And so Europe seems to keep getting itself into these legal challenges and these sort of moral challenges that Russia is very willing to behave in a malign way against. But for Europe, they said, well, these are the rules and we have to abide by them and follow the procedure and the committee methods and so on. And ultimately that just enables Russia, let alone providing Ukraine with the help that it needs. But there's another point here which is that tying in the Iran question, the one country that's absolutely benefited from what's going on in Iran is Russia. If someone said why would this war have started? My easiest answer would be because it benefits Russia gives them all revenue, it uses up resources that would otherwise be used to defend Ukraine, it distracts and it allows Russia to have another opportunity to gain leverage over one of its allies, Iran, by giving them the techniques of drone usage that it supplied in Ukraine.
- [13:19]
A
There's a similar question here, I think Tira, that applies to the one we were discussing in the first item about the war in the Gulf. That is what does the United States actually want? Europe still hasn't really decided what it actually wants where Ukraine is concerned. And it is a complaint I have heard from many Ukrainians both in Ukraine and abroad and which I have relayed from this chair many times that they are being given enough to survive but never enough to win. And it is now nearly a year since I was last in Ukraine. But if, you know, if I had five quid for every time I heard a variant on the theme of from politicians and from frontline soldiers actually waging the war to the effect of give us the tools, we'll finish the job, I'd have several multiples more of £5 than I do.
- [14:05]
B
Well, yes, but Ukraine, as Zelenskyy pointed out yesterday when he was visiting Parliament, they have been remarkable in pushing the drone technology and anti drone and so they, and they were a considerable manufacturing power and doing it. They did a lot of actually aerospace manufacturing before the war. It's all, many of those sites have been targeted. So yes, they do want, they do want the means. And actually in just a couple of weeks, Ash mentioned Orban in Hungary who has consistently voted against EU funds. He is going to be facing election and at the moment the polls are against, against him. So that may bring down one barrier to giving the Ukraine more funds.
- [15:01]
A
What did we make Ash, of Zelenskyy's warning about the future of drones? Because he was talking not about state actors, because we're familiar with that by now. He was talking about organized crime and terrorists. And the more you listen to him talk and the more you recall that drones have already been used by the Houthis, Hamas, various African jihadists groups, it does seem almost surprising that we haven't had the, the drone borne terror attack in Europe or the United States.
- [15:29]
C
Yeah, I have a similar thought and I am surprised that it hasn't got. I sort of don't want to talk about it too much in case someone gets the idea to do it. We've, we've seen drones, simple basic drones being used for acts that used to be more complicated criminal acts such as flying drugs into prisons. So we, the criminal networks are pretty switched on. They tend to almost be further in advance than militaries tend to be. And you would think that this was starting to filter down. There was a big NATO exercise last year. This was a, this is a military component. And even after Four years of the conflict was three and a half at that point. Three and a half years of the conflict in Ukraine, where Western military should have recognized what is coming down the track. We conducted the simulated, the Western nations conducted the simulated exercise in Estonia. On the opposing force was some Ukrainians with drones and they absolutely smashed the NATO forces who knew that there was a drone force on the other side and either had not taken seriously the risk of that force or had not implemented anything that the Ukrainians have been teaching them for the last couple of years. So if that happens at that level in a military force where you know what you're facing, what are we doing on the civil and policing side to mitigate against these risks?
- [16:54]
A
I mean, Tira Asch makes a good point there, which we see happen in many, many fields, that technology, at least initially, always outruns attempts to regulate it. But where drones in particular are concerned, are you surprised by how lightly regulated they are? I mean, almost any idiot can buy one and you know, and as we have seen demonstrated certainly in Western Europe, almost any idiot with a drone can close an entire airport.
- [17:20]
B
Yes, and that has certainly happened across Western capitals and Western airports. But even it's only been a few years since they actually put forward regulations that regulated journalists using drones. And in fact we've had many colleagues that have had to go to the drone training, do a bit of drone training and then they get a license. It isn't that difficult to actually even do it legally. Anybody can do it illegally. But I do think that, I do think Ash mentioned Estonia and Estonia has been a leader in a lot of technology, including ways cyber fighting, the cyber warfare, this grave warfare, that is something that Ukraine faces from Russia all the time. So I think that we could do well to look to Estonia and other Baltic countries because they are the ones directly threatened right now.
- [18:18]
C
Estonia, Latvia, Lithuania, Finland, Ukraine and Poland, particularly for ground forces, they're the countries that get it. They understand the risk.
- [18:25]
A
Well, to the Vatican now and to a spot of mischief making by the incumbent occupant of the throne of St. Peter, Pope Leo XIV. For it is he speaking at some wingding commingling bishops and who types declared that quote, universal health coverage is not merely a technical goal to be achieved. It is primarily a moral imperative for societies that wish to call themselves just the. A Chicago born pontiff would of course be well aware that by that measurement the United States is excluded from the ranks of just societies. It remains obstinately alone among developed countries in not providing universal health care. Precise Figures are difficult to nail down, but the number of Americans bankrupted annually by medical bills is generally estimated in the hundreds of thousands. Tira, would you like to argue with the Pope?
- [19:13]
B
Oh, well, the Pope is, as you say, I think he probably enjoys a bit of mischief, but he's making a very, very important point. And the World Health Organization says that more than 4 billion people on this planet, that's more than half the population, have lack access to a lot of basic health needs. To basic health needs. And it's a great thing to push for. But the fact that he's throwing the weight of religion. He says there is a moral, a moral imperative for this. That's very interesting, pushing the Catholic faith forward in a very bit of theology there.
- [19:58]
A
I mean, this will get attention in the United States, obviously. Ash, do we rather suspect he knew exactly what he was doing?
- [20:07]
C
I think, having heard previous pronunciations from this Pope, that he knew exactly what he was doing. It might cause some challenges for Donald Trump. Trump over in the States, because he does have this. He's set up a religious office in the White House, hasn't he, where he proclaims himself as a Christian as this great.
- [20:29]
A
Very much not a Catholic thing, though, I think.
- [20:31]
C
Well, very much not a Catholic thing, but the Pope is talking about moral components and the moral imperative. And of course, there's quite a lot in the New Testament about looking after the poor. I don't think it will have any real impact because nothing seems to have an impact on the cognitive dissonance, on the people who are supporting, supporting Donald Trump in these matters. But I think he doesn't know what he's doing. And I think getting a bit of discussion going around, it seems to be quite a good idea. I mean, I live in a country that has universal healthcare. Sometimes there's some challenges with it, but I am still happier that I live in that system rather than in an American system in which many people are not able to. And beyond the moral imperative, there's an economic imperative. You don't want to see people being bankrupted, losing their homes, unable to support their families. You don't want to see people avoiding medical treatment and then getting so ill that they're unable to work. And that has an impact on the tax system if you're being completely amoral about it and just looking at the economic benefits. So the argument seems to be quite clear.
- [21:36]
A
Is there a simple explanation as to why the United States is so weird about this? Because I do speak. And though it has been somewhat challenging in the last Decade or so as a fairly out and proud America file. I have always enjoyed the time I've spent there. But having always understood there are just aspects of this country which will never make the least amount of sense to me and this is one of them. And I've had conversations with American friends or even people I've just met while traveling in America and they just sort of idly mention what they pay every month in health insurance, especially if they do have any pre existing conditions. It just strikes me as just completely genuinely insane.
- [22:13]
B
Well, a lot of it is explained by the lobby system and that determines an awful lot of laws and pressure on, on lawmakers. So you know, you have the famous strong, strong gun lobby that pushes forward policy. But the doctor's lobby, the doctors, doctors are incredibly well paid in America. I would venture to guess that they probably have a higher wage there than any other country on average, and the medical lobby doesn't want that to change. But not only are the American people having to take the consequences of that, but under this current presidency, there's been a tremendous cut in the medical aid that Americans provide around the world and that has had tremendous impact, particularly in South Asia and particularly in Africa.
- [23:12]
A
In the interests of balance, just finally on this one, Ash, it is arguable, is it not, that the UK is also quite weird about healthcare, just in a slightly different way, in that the National Health Service is worshipped as this frail but angry God which must never be mocked, reformed or challenged.
- [23:32]
C
Should never be mocked. Should never be challenged, but it should be reformed.
- [23:37]
A
Well, to Poland now and to the gathering backlash against mobile phones with specific reference to the concern that they may be boiling the brains of younger folk who have been gawping into screens more or less since birth. Poland is to join a growing list of countries which will ban the use of smartphones in schools by under 16s in the hope that I paraphrase somewhat. A blank eyed generation of digitally hypnotized troglodytes may instead read a book, pay attention to their teachers, speak to each other or go outside. Ash, this is one of those stories which every time I run up against it, I find myself thinking that the status quo is actually more newsworthy, or at least weirder than the response to it. I mean, why were smartphones ever allowed in schools in the first place? I speak as somebody who survived an entire education without one.
- [24:26]
C
Yeah, I also survived an entire education without them. And I presume it's because like many things, once one or two appear initially it's not seen as a problem and then suddenly it's emerged everywhere and there's nothing you can really do about it. I'm all for this. I'm all for the banning of iPhones for under 16s or smartphones for under 16s. Other intoxicating smartphones are available. And the only two arguments that people seem to provide against it is what it will mean is at the age of 16, suddenly these young people will engage with smartphones for the first time and it will be like Americans starting to drink at 21, they can't handle it. That's the supposed idea.
- [25:05]
A
Well, I mean, you've got to start with, I mean, you know, it's like young people aren't allowed to drive cars until around that point either.
- [25:12]
C
Yeah, I don't have an issue with it. One of the other arguments I've heard made, which is might be a better one, is that it means that that will be viewed as a success and we won't do the more important things about legislating the way algorithms work generally or the way social media and AI companies work generally. That will be seen as like, we can get that across, we get that through Parliament win. Rather than actually dealing with the tricky bits. Now that is an argument that I have a bit more truck with, but still ban them for under 16 year olds anyway.
- [25:41]
A
Yeah, I mean, I think that is a fair point, that this is the, this is the easier way to do it because is the problem tier, actually the phones, which are of course entirely morally neutral, as all technology is. It just depends what you choose to do with it or the platforms that people consume on them.
- [25:58]
B
Well, I think that concentration, they've shown that kids using iPhones or any phone, their concentration levels aren't as high as people that are not involved with that technology. And also I think that maybe we have an agenda here that we want them to read books and go off and crawl into the corner and read a book for change, which would be something that would be easier in a classroom if you didn't have that seductive little tool in front of you. But like Asch, I grew up without phones. I very much was analog generation. And in fact my father wanted me to do all of my mathematical calculations on slide rules. If anybody there remembers what a slide rule is, it's an ancient technique. So I do think, I do think, I do sympathize with teachers having to keep the attention of a class and the children having a direct relation with other human beings rather than technology.
- [27:06]
C
Radio 4, BBC Radio 4 did like a whole thing about this a Couple of weeks ago and they interviewed some young people and the response was the same from all of them, which was in the first week or so it'll be really annoying but I really want this to happen, happen. And so even the, the supposed, the advocates for mobile phones, the audience that, that they're trying to appeal to, they don't want the mobile phones either.
- [27:31]
A
Tira, just going to what you were saying as well. Do we overlook that the misery these things are causing teachers and it's not just the fact that, and this is there is research into this to which you were alluding, but just the conversations I have had myself with people who are still attempting to teach young people things say it's not just the that have made the job near impossible because of the distracting qualities that they possess. But online technology has made their lives miserable because you know, parents now think they're entitled to email their child's teachers multiple times a day about anything that pops into their head. Whereas of course when you or I were going to school, our parents might perhaps interact with our teachers annually at parent teacher night.
- [28:15]
B
Well, I hate to hear myself saying this but sometimes there's too much communication and as a journalist, unless it. That sounds odd, but there can be too much communication. I think we all have been subject to that.
- [28:29]
C
Also from the schools there's almost daily multiple emails from. So it goes both ways.
- [28:36]
A
Ashbad Raj and Tira Shubh, thank you both for joining us. Finally on today's show, last week can played host to the world's largest real estate and urbanism trade show Mipim. Among the nearly 20,000 delegates was Emin Agalarov, the founder of Seabreeze, a new neighborhood master plan taking shape in Baku. Emin stopped by our pop up radio studio to speak with Monacle's editor in chief Andrew Tuck. Andrew began by asking him about the scale of his project.
- [29:01]
D
The project has been in the works for the past 20 years. So I call it my lifetime project which you know, I manage on daily basis. And it started as a small construction site on the outskirts of of city of Baku in Azerbaijan, which is my home country. And over the years it evolved into a proper city where we've designed 30 million square meters with top leading world architects and bureaus that will reside eventually 500,000 residents. So far we've built 3.5 million meters. We have 3 million in construction and we have 50,000 residents. So in a way we've done 10% of what our ambition. So still a lot more to do, but a lot has been done. And in terms of infrastructure of the project, it's not just a development. We take great care about creating greenery. We planted over 11 million plants and trees on the territory. We're trying to echo as much as we can using solar power, wind power, saving water, recycling water. We have already about 45 operational restaurants, two schools, kindergarten, hospital, shops, pharmacies. So it is a city where you can live year round or you can use it as your summer home and be entertained with international artists. And it's very vibrant and we're very excited to present it on the international level at MIPIM this year for the first time.
- [30:18]
A
But this is not just a resort. I was hearing you say that you've
- [30:21]
C
got schools there already.
- [30:23]
A
You'll be able to go from birth.
- [30:25]
C
You spend your whole life there.
- [30:26]
D
Yes, you will actually be able to be born in Seabird. So place of birth will be Seabreeze. But now we're talking to the Formula guys to try and incorporate and transfer this Baku city circuit into Sea Breeze. So Formula could become part of Seabreeze Medical cluster, IT cluster gaming industry. The government has signed a law that passes and allows us to create proper casinos. And the first one is under construction, which will be the largest casino in Europe, 90,000 square meters. And it will be one of the three casinos that we're building. So in terms of entertainment, you know, international hotels, we've signed, you know, Retison, Hilton, Marriott, Cipriani, Hotel, Nobu Hotel, Rixus Hotel, Hyatt, Swiss Raffles. So a lot of international brands are coming our way. In terms of restaurants, it's Nobu, Cipriani and Nikki Beach. Nikki beach is already operational. Nobu is coming soon as well as Cipriani. So we think for the people when they choose a place to travel, you know, there are obvious locations, you know, there's Turkey, Bodrum, there's Dubai, there's, you know, Miami. But there's nothing in the region of CIS that can really compete on a global scale. So we think that Sea Breeze could become a new destination for the people to discover a new country in the sense, not obviously a new country, but a country that they haven't visited in the sense of touristic activity aspect, where it's not just Sea breeze. We have, you know, 11 climate zones in Azerbaijan. We you can ski, you can in winter and you can swim in the sea in the summer. There's a lot to see, a lot of history, amazing food, hospitality. The people are, you know, they love tourists and it's A country that speaks many languages. Azerbaijan, which is close to Turkish language and Turks can understand Azeri, a lot of the population speak Russian, Russian and English. So we think that this destination will be very appealing to tourists of any country.
- [32:20]
A
Initially, the market is the neighboring nation, so From Uzbekistan, from CIS and Russia, yes.
- [32:28]
D
But so far 82% of what we sell, we're selling to the local market. So it gives us a very sustainable business in the sense that this will not be a ghost city. People that buy apartments actually use them and you know, 40% of those residents use them year round. So we think that this is very important because there's a lot of projects that are built where people buy real estate as investment with the idea to resell once the building is completed and up. But nobody's really using these apartments. And that also affects, in a negative aspect, secondary market. So when you bought an apartment, you had a payment plan to put paid out over the course of construction. But when you want to sell it, you want to sell it snap. And you don't really have a customer because they're still nearby selling apartments that are, you know, giving you a payment plan. But I think in our case scenario, our secondary market has been very successful as well. So for the residents that received a payment plan from us as a developer, eventually they resell that apartment quite quickly. So it's liquid real estate and that creates a business for everybody.
- [33:27]
A
And Tommy, there is a playbook almost for how you do this work.
- [33:31]
C
If you look at, especially the Gulf states, the Emirates, if you look at
- [33:34]
A
Dubai for example, they built a man made island. They understood how to develop beachside as well as residential. And looking at this amazing model you have here for the project, there are some echoes maybe do you think of Dubai, you've built your own island.
- [33:51]
D
You know, it's interesting that, you know, I think there's no need to, to try and invent a bicycle. You know, everything in the world has been, there are examples of how things could be done successfully. So my job as the master developer of this project is to find best case scenarios and adapt them to my market and integrate them into one project. The beauty of this project, it has longevity. You know, developing projects, you know, after a certain amount of square meters, they finish and that's your end line and they stop evolving. And once, once they stop evolving, your price stops rising. But this project will be evolving for at least next 10 years with all the branding that we're integrating in fashion, in F and B, in hospitality, medical cluster, IT cluster, casino, you know, all the fashion brands, all the Louis Vuittons and Chanels, eventually we want to have them. And we're building a shopping mall, an open shopping mall for luxury brands. And when you have longevity, you know, people that bought an apartment from Me @seabreeze 10 years ago they had one restaurant. Five years ago they had five restaurants. Now they have, you know, 45 restaurants, schools, hospitals. So it's a different way of life considering you buy the apartment for the same price.
- [34:59]
A
That was Ermin Agalarov, founder of Sea Breeze in Azerbaijan, speaking to Monocle Radio at mipim. That's all for this edition of the Monocle Daily. Thanks to our panelists today, Tira Shubhat and Ash Bhardwaj. Today's show was produced by Carlotta Rebel and researched by Annalise Maynard. Our sound engineer was Christy o'. Grady. I'm Andrew Muller here in London. The Daily is back at the same time tomorrow. Thanks for listening.