‘The Washington Post’ cuts and the role of the foreign correspondent

Summary

The Monocle Daily – Episode Summary

Episode Title: ‘The Washington Post’ cuts and the role of the foreign correspondent
Date: February 5, 2026
Host: Andrew Muller
Guests: Elizabeth Braw (Atlantic Council, author), James Rogers (City University of London, author)
Special Segment: Interview with Latvian Prime Minister Eva K. Salina

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Episode Overview

This episode of The Monocle Daily examines the major layoffs at The Washington Post and the broader implications for journalism, democracy, and society. The panel then pivots to the expiration of the New START nuclear arms treaty, shifts in European diplomacy, and concludes with a conversation about overtourism and local pushback in Japan. There’s also an in-depth interview with Latvia’s Prime Minister on European security, diplomacy, and soft power.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Washington Post Cuts and the Value of Foreign Correspondence

([02:24] – [10:05])

• Massive Layoffs & Editorial Shift:

  • The Washington Post, under Jeff Bezos, has cut a third of its workforce, including its sports section and “many, if not most” foreign correspondents, shutting bureaus in Kyiv and Jerusalem.
  • Ostensible reasoning: “strengthen our footing and sharpen our focus,” a justification the panel finds lacking.
  • “Spoiler. No, they won’t.” – Andrew Muller [02:24]

• Not About Money:

  • Both panelists stress that Bezos’s immense wealth makes financial explanations weak.
  • “He just spent $75 million on the Melania documentary. So it's not about money then.” – Elizabeth Braw [05:40]

• Impact on Democracy and Civil Society:

  • Foreign correspondence is inherently expensive but critical for an informed public.
  • “There are also societal institutions that are not supposed to aspire to or aim for commercial success. They're supposed to aim for success in informing readers, as you just said... Now there is one. That national institution is on its way out.” – Elizabeth Braw [05:37]

• Digital Audience Metrics & Declining Interest:

  • The panel laments that foreign news often ranks lowest in digital readership, making it an easy casualty in cutbacks, but warns this creates knowledge vacuums.
  • “Most proprietors do now know that most readers, if we're being blunt, don't really care all that much about foreign news.” – Andrew Muller [07:01]

• Historical Regression:

  • “I really sort of worry if on a global scale we're heading back towards [elite-only news], that there are going to be a few people who are going to be willing to pay for good information and everybody else is going to be left in the dark.” – James Rogers [07:33]

• Models for Sustainable Journalism:

  • Elizabeth cites the Shipstead and Bonnier families, and the Financial Times, as alternative ownership models that preserve quality and profitability.
  • “They have figured out how to make money on the newspaper. And it is such a high quality newspaper.” – Elizabeth Braw [08:37]

• Predictable Downward Spiral:

  • Historical perspective: slashing staff to “save” publications often leads to further decline.
  • “They do the thing where they say we can save lots of money by getting rid of all this stuff and sacking all these people. And then they seem surprised when the people who were reading it... go, well, I don't want to.” – Andrew Muller [09:39]

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2. The Expiry of the New START Treaty & Nuclear Arms Control

([10:05] – [16:29])

• Treaty Lapses:

  • The New START arms control treaty between the US and Russia expired; nations could now theoretically expand their arsenals without restriction.
  • “Its significance: significantly reduced the strategic nuclear warheads... capping each arsenal at 1,550.” – Andrew Muller [10:11]

• Possibility of an Interim Agreement:

  • Some indication that the US and Russia might tacitly maintain the treaty’s limits without formal renewal.
  • “I think it's probably in everybody's interest to have some sort of interim agreement, if that's what it's going to be.” – James Rogers [11:31]

• Global Domino Effect:

  • Without the treaty, further proliferation risk arises (China named as example).
  • “It's the twilight zone we're entering. ... It's essentially open season now. Other countries can say, well, if the major nuclear weapons owners of the world can't agree in the treaty, maybe we should start developing nuclear weapons, too.” – Elizabeth Braw [12:28]

• Arms Racing and Financial Constraints:

  • Russia may not be able to compete economically with a US arms build-up, especially with costs of the Ukraine war.
  • “Russia's military spending at the moment is sky high, of course, because of its war in Ukraine, and it probably isn't its priority.” – James Rogers [14:06]

• Why Arms Control Matters:

  • Reminder of MAD (mutually assured destruction) and the Cold War’s logic: more nuclear weapons than necessary is irrational.
  • “It was mad to have more nuclear weapons warheads than you would need to destroy the world.” – Elizabeth Braw [14:57]

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3. Special Interview: Latvia’s Prime Minister Eva K. Salina

([16:56] – [22:01])

• Diplomacy at the World Government Summit:

  • Latvia emphasizes Nordic-Baltic and Polish unity in supporting Ukraine and fostering “just peace.”
  • “We are very active... supporting Ukraine... we need to isolate Russia from financial income to boost their military.” – PM Salina [17:09]

• Societal Pressures and Hybrid Threats:

  • Latvian society demands justice for Ukraine, faces cyber and hybrid attacks, and is investing 5% of GDP in defense.

• European Coordination & Values:

  • Push for efficient decision-making among committed EU/NATO members, even if that means sidelining the most reluctant.
  • “We have found a way how we can decide who are willing to decide, excluding maybe sometimes those who are not willing to decide because it has been a pretty long obstacle to all the Europeans to go forward.” – PM Salina [21:08]

• Balancing Security, Values, and Modernization:

  • Europe must be flexible and keep up with technological change while holding onto democratic principles and human rights.

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4. Germany’s Diplomatic Shifts & Values in Flux

([22:01] – [30:57])

• Mertz’s Foreign Policy Activism:

  • Chancellor Friedrich Mertz is more energetic and proactive than his predecessor, traveling globally to strengthen security and economic ties, even with problematic partners.
  • “He's also very interested in foreign policy and in security policy, whereas Olaf Scholz was a former finance minister.” – Elizabeth Braw [23:08]

• The Practicality of Values:

  • With limited options, Germany and the EU find themselves seeking deals with countries like Saudi Arabia and India despite human rights misgivings.
  • “This is the dilemma for liberal democracies in a crumbling international order that the things they stand for are not particularly fashionable anymore.” – Elizabeth Braw [24:56]

• From Values to Transactions:

  • The illusion that trade leads to democracy/Westernization has faded; relationship-building is now largely transactional.
  • “We live, frankly, in a much more transactional world and one in which trade is not influenced by principles…” – James Rogers [30:22]

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5. Overtourism in Japan—and Europe’s Response

([30:57] – [37:57])

• Fuji Yoshida Cancels Cherry Blossom Festival:

  • The town halts its festival due to overwhelming crowds, litter, trampling, and disrespect for residents.

• Coping Strategies from Around the World:

  • Examples include Rome charging fees for selfies at the Trevi Fountain and Copenhagen encouraging tourists to pick up litter in exchange for perks.
  • “A much better idea is what Copenhagen does, which is inviting tourists to pick up litter to do various good deeds for the community in exchange for free entry into museums…” – Elizabeth Braw [32:29]

• Tourism Beyond Economics:

  • For small towns, even moderate tourism can overwhelm local infrastructure and quality of life.
  • “I imagine that this town can afford to take the economic hit it's expecting to take. I mean we've seen this in Spain as well...” – James Rogers [33:39]

• Why Are Popular Destinations Overrun?

  • Muller laments repetitive tourist habits, suggesting lack of curiosity and the influence of social media.
  • “The one thing that all tourists don't want when they go to a given place is Other bloody tourists.” – Andrew Muller [34:30]

• Personal Anecdotes of Bad Tourist Behavior:

  • Both guests sympathize with locals inconvenienced by tourists and offer memories of overcrowding or misbehavior (from Venice to London’s Westminster Bridge).

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Notable Quotes and Memorable Moments

“Spoiler. No, they won’t.”
— Andrew Muller, mocking the Post’s rationalization for layoffs [02:24]

“They're supposed to aim for success in informing readers, as you just said. And the fewer such institutions there are, the fewer opportunities there are for readers to inform themselves.”
— Elizabeth Braw on journalism’s societal role [05:37]

“We have had mass media all the time, that we've had democracy. I wonder really whether you can have democracy without mass media. And we're about to find out in the coming decades, I think.”
— James Rogers [08:00]

“It was mad to have more nuclear weapons warheads than you would need to destroy the world.”
— Elizabeth Braw on arms races and MAD [14:57]

“This is the dilemma for liberal democracies in a crumbling international order, that the things they stand for are not particularly fashionable anymore and they have to assert themselves in a world that's becoming more anarchic.”
— Elizabeth Braw [24:56]

“If you were to read some of the great travel writers, you might get inspired to go to a place other than the overrun Spanish destinations... Holiday pictures are boring to everybody else and not even the people who took them themselves will ever look at them again.”
— Elizabeth Braw [35:03]

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• [02:24] – Deep dive: The Washington Post’s layoffs and editorial philosophy
• [07:29] – Shrinking space for foreign coverage and the implications for democracy
• [08:35] – Sustainable media ownership models in Scandinavia and the UK
• [10:05] – Expiry of the New START Treaty & nuclear nonproliferation fears
• [13:36] – Arms racing, costs, and the logic of arms control
• [16:56] – Interview with Latvian PM Eva K. Salina at the World Government Summit
• [22:01] – Germany’s shifting foreign policy and pragmatic alliances
• [30:57] – Fuji Yoshida cancels cherry blossom festival—tourism pushback
• [35:03] – Panel anecdotes about overtourism and personal experiences

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Tone & Language

The panel’s tone is sharp yet wry, interweaving analysis with sardonic humor. There’s a shared sense of frustration at short-sighted decisions (media cuts, transactional diplomacy), but also threads of optimism and solutions (examples of media resilience, creative tourism management). The special interview with the Latvian Prime Minister adds a grounded perspective from a smaller nation facing big challenges.

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In Summary

This episode explores the erosion of responsible journalism, rising geopolitical uncertainty, and the ongoing tension between values and interests in foreign policy—with a side serving of tourism woes. Panelists, while witty and at times irreverent, make a serious case for why quality news, principled diplomacy, and thoughtful civic management remain vital in uncertain times.

Transcript

[A]

You're listening to the Monocle Daily, first broadcast on the 5th of February, 2026 on Monocle Radio. The self destruction of the Washington Post, the German Chancellor's jaunt to the Gulf, and the picturesque Japanese town which would rather be left alone this cherry blossom season. I'm Andrew Muller. The Monocle Daily starts. Hello and welcome to the Monocle Daily, coming to you from our studios here at Midori House in London. I'm Andrew Muller. My guests James Rogers and Elizabeth Broer. We'll discuss today's big stories and we'll hear from Latvian Prime Minister Eva Ka Salina speaking to Monocle at the world Government summit in Dubai. Stay tuned. All that and more coming up right here on the Monocle Daily. This is the Monocle Daily. I'm Andrew Muller and I am joined today by Elizabeth Braw, senior Fellow at the Atlantic Council, author of the upcoming title Undersea War, and by James Rogers, associate Professor of International Journalism at City University of London, author of the Imminent the Return of Russia. Heaven help us. Two panelists with imminent books to flog. All right, then, keep it short. James, you first.

[B]

Well, my big news, Andrew, is it's no longer imminent. It came out last week in the United States and here in the uk. My book is is a concise political history of Russia and its relations with the west from 1991 to 2022. Really just trying to ask the question of what went wrong after the optimism at the end of the Cold War to the renewed confrontation we see now.

[A]

The short answer to which is a great deal. We do have a longer conversation about you with that book coming up. But listeners, I have read it and everything highly recommended. Elizabeth, I haven't got a copy of yours yet, but I'm sure I will be highly recommending it in due course. But introduce it to the listeners if you.

[C]

Yes, it's called Undersea War. It's coming out in October, so if you want to read it, you'll see a lot of track changes in My Word documents. And it's about cables and pipelines and the battle taking place underneath the ocean surface. And frankly, I get frightened even reading it myself. So I don't know whether that's good or bad, but it's coming your way in October.

[A]

Well, if it's terrifying you, I think that's a really encouraging sign. We will Start in Washington, D.C. and with the latest insistence by the proprietor of some more other media outlet that the way to make a given newspaper, magazine, broadcaster or website flourish is to absolutely gut it. Of all the reasons anyone liked it in the first place. The Washington Post, owned by Amazon CEO Jeff Bezos, has axed roughly a third of its workforce, including its entire sports section. An especially interesting decision in super bowl week. And as a Winter Olympics gets underway and many, if not most of those responsible for the Post's hitherto much admired foreign coverage, including shutting down the Post's bureau in Kyiv and Jerusalem, an apparently unfired spokesperson for the Post said the cuts would, quote, strengthen our footing and sharpen our focus. Spoiler. No, they won't. James. We can probably proceed on the assumption that this isn't entirely about money, because Jeff Bezos could not possibly spend all that he has in roughly a gajillion lifetimes. So if it's not about that, what is this about?

[B]

Politics, possibly? I think it's about deciding what the priorities are. We saw only last, last year there was a change, very marked change in editorial policy at the Washington Post when they declared that they were only going to have editorial pieces on things that dealt with personal liberties and free markets. So the pluralism that you'd expect, even given the particular orientation of a newspaper, traditionally they've taken opposing views on board in order to give their readers as broad a range of opinion as they possibly can. I think this is astonishing, and I think it's surprising, and I think it's extremely bad news, obviously, for journalism, and I'm not really quite sure what the purpose of it is. I actually met Matt Murray, the executive editor, last year. He came to the university where I teach, and I actually interviewed him in front of a group of, you know, students. It was, it was, you know, it was an off the record private conversation. So I can't really go into the details of what he said, but he was, you know, he was asked then about that policy, you know, which, which he, you know, defended as a law. Member of the editorial team. But I think it was sort of already ringing alarm bells and it's difficult. You know, there's been. Right throughout history when wealthy people have owned media outlets, they've tended to shape them to what they think they should be, but they've also tended to try to make money out of them. And I can't really see how this is going to. I can obviously see that cutting all these salaries in the short term is going to work as far as sustaining for the longer term. Much less obvious.

[A]

I mean, it is, as James said, Elizabeth, obviously terrible news for journalists. And as fellow journalists, our sympathies are obviously with everybody who has suddenly been Laid off. But can we make the case that it is also bad news for readers, civil society in general? Because this is a newspaper which has a great and glorious tradition of foreign correspondence in particular, which is not an inexpensive or undiff undertaking. But the Post has stepped up to that challenge for decades. It's bad beyond journalism, isn't it? This does lead to less stuff being known.

[C]

It does. And. Well, the first thing to remember is Jeff Bezos has money. It's not as if he needs to save the salaries of some journalists at the Washington Post in order to survive himself. He has a lot of money. And by the way, he just spent $75 million on the Melania documentary. So it's not about money then. Newspapers are a strange breed, are they not? They are supposed to be at least making a small profit so that they can continue to operate, but they. There are also societal institutions that are not supposed to aspire to or aim for commercial success. They're supposed to aim for success in informing readers, as you just said. And the fewer such institutions there are, the fewer opportunities there are for readers to inform themselves. And as I think all your listeners know, the Washington Post is not just a local newspaper for the Washington area, it is a national institution. Now there is one. That national institution is on its way out. There are not that many left.

[A]

Indeed not. I mean, James, there is. This does bring to mind, or at least it brings to my mind a bleak thought which does occur at moments like this that as I was saying, and as you know, having been a foreign correspondent in Moscow and Gaza and other locations, those roles are difficult and expensive to maintain. And they are, if I think, if you look at actual readership metrics, a fairly marginal preoccupation. I mean, in pre Internet, nobody really knew which sections of a newspaper anybody was reading, whereas now people know. Exactly. And most proprietors do now know that most readers, if we're being blunt, don't really care all that much about foreign news.

[B]

I mean, what worries me, Andrew, I mean, I used to teach a course on the history of journalism and newspapers started for wealthy people being able to afford others to send them letters, to tell them, for example, the prices of commodities before they arrived in London. And I really sort of worry if on a global scale we're heading back towards that, that there are going to be a few people who are going to be willing to pay for good information and everybody else is going to be left in the dark.

[C]

I mean, that society functions, left with the unreliable information. Social media.

[B]

Well, yeah, that's what I was going to say, I mean, the thing is that the question is we have had mass media all the time, that we've had democracy. I wonder really whether you can have democracy without mass media. And we're about to find out in the coming decades, I think.

[A]

I mean, are there models that anybody has developed anywhere else, Elizabeth, other than the United States, which don't rely on somebody with enormous sacks of cash fancying owning a newspaper, because sometimes it sort of works out okay, but not generally, not in the long term. There must be a better way of doing it than this.

[C]

There is, or there seems to be. So, for example, if you look at the Shipstead family of companies, the Bonnier family of companies, they own newspapers, including serious newspapers, book publishing businesses and so forth, and they don't do it as a charitable undertaking. So clearly they have figured it out. And if we look at, for example, the Financial Times, it is not owned by a family that does it for the love of democracy, it's owned by a company. But they have figured out how to make money on the newspaper. And it is such a high quality newspaper.

[A]

It is indeed that just finally on this one, James. And again, those of us who have been in journalism long enough will recognize the pattern here, and I've certainly worked at magazines where this has occurred. Why doesn't anybody learn from this? Because they do the thing where they say we can save lots of money by getting rid of all this stuff and sacking all these people. And then they seem surprised when the people who were reading it or consuming it then go, well, I don't want to.

[B]

That's not what I used to buy.

[A]

Yeah, that's not what I paid for. And, and then you, then you do have at that point a foot on the death spiral.

[B]

Yeah, I mean, we'll see. I mean, the, the quote that you have from that spokesperson at the beginning sounds like exactly the sort of PR nonsense to be cutting through. You know, it's breathtaking, but it's, it's.

[A]

What they always say will be a leaner and sharper publication for all of this. And then two years later, they've gone completely out of business.

[C]

Isn't that what happened to the Evening Standard in London? Something similar?

[A]

Something very similar, yes. But, yeah, there are unfortunately any number of examples, but we will, of course, be following that story as we learn more in coming days. We will move on now to Russia, US relations, another relatively happy chapter of which officially closed today. The new Strategic Arms Reduction Treaty, or New Start, was agreed in 2010 by U.S. president Barack Obama and Russian presidential desk warmer Dmitry Medvedev. Its significance significantly reduced the strategic nuclear warheads fielded by both the US and Russia, capping each arsenal at 1550. New Start entered force on February 5, 2011, and having not been renewed due to what we shall refer to as events expired last night. In theory, until or unless a new agreement is reached, there is nothing to stop the US and Russia tooling up to whatever degree they like. James RESIDENT Russia Boffin at this table it is reported in the last couple of hours that there may be some sort of agreement just to sort of agree to carry on and just roll it over rather than necessarily getting around the table and signing a whole thing. Does that suggest to you that both Russia and the U.S. whatever else they may disagree on, basically Both agree that 1550 warheads each will probably about do?

[B]

I guess so. I mean, I think it's probably in everybody's interest to have some sort of interim agreement, if that's what it's going to be. I mean, it's also true to say, I think that, you know, some of the research that I did for my book, it became clear that Donald Trump likes big international occasions, so one could imagine he might well like a summit with Vladimir Putin in order to put his initials to a new deal. But whether the current international situation is conducive to that is another matter. And I think it is. It's no question it's important, but it's also we also live in a time when nobody wants to be seen to be the supplicant to another. So it's going to be interesting to see who makes the first move here or whether there will just be tacit understandings that we more or less carry on as we are until we can such time as we can make a new agreement.

[A]

Would there be a concern here, Elizabeth, that a new arms race might not just be confined to the United States and Russia? If the United States and Russia started spending big on their nuclear arsenals, then China would as well, obviously. To name but one.

[C]

To name but one. And this is the twilight zone we're entering. And this is also the result of certain powers that be denigrating dismissing diplomacy as a tool. Without diplomacy as a tool, you're left with, as you said, James, one of the leaders having to go to the other and say, I think I'd be quite interested in continuing this treaty, but in a rule space, the international order. You have diplomatic relations that that are functional and you have diplomats that carry on that constant conversation, including, oh, this treaty is about to expire, should we start renegotiating it? And if that doesn't happen, you're left on a cliff as we are now. And it's not just China, it's other countries. It's essentially open season. Now. Other countries can say, well, if the major nuclear weapons owners of the world can't agree in the treaty, maybe we should start developing nuclear weapons, too.

[A]

James, you said that President Trump likes big set piece occasions, as indeed he does. But he also likes to be able to brag that, you know, he and or the United States are number one, that they're the winners, that they're on top. If he got it into his head that the United States needed to massively ramp up its nuclear arsenals, could Russia actually compete with that? Can Russia afford a nuclear arms race? Because the one thing that can be said for sure of nuclear weapons is that they are fantastically expensive.

[B]

Yeah, that's a very good question. I mean, I think probably not in the present circumstance. I think Russia's defense spend. Well, I'm going to. I think the word defense is perhaps not right. The word in this. Russia's military spending at the moment is sky high, of course, because of its war in Ukraine, and it probably isn't its priority. I wouldn't have thought either to try to renew this. I mean, it's just interesting when you mentioned the beginning, Presidents Obama and Medvedev, you know, remember them going to Silicon Valley together and eating burgers together in their shirt sleeves. Such a very, very different time. And yet not so very long ago, I don't think Russia will be interested in this. And I also think that Russia will probably want to sort of talk superpower to superpower in the terms in which they see themselves and to the United States and probably get this sorted out. I don't think it's in either side's interest.

[C]

And this is why we had arms control in the first place, because it makes no sense to have thousands of warheads more than you need to destroy the world. And that's why this concept of MAD so mutually assured destruction entered the vocabulary during the Cold War. It made no sense. It was mad to have more nuclear weapons warheads than you would need to destroy the world. And that's what we face if new start isn't replaced by something. And as you said, James, and you too, Andrew, Russia may find it financially unattractive to engage in that MAD race while at the same time spending a.

[A]

Lot of money just finally on this, James, and just for fun, let's Try to be hilariously optimistic. As we said at the top of this item, there is some indication that Russia is going to agree with the United States of just like, fine, just carry on with this. But there's also been a development in the Russia, Ukraine, America talks in Abu Dhabi which have resulted in at least some prisoner swaps. Is there anything there that suggests that Russia is trying to signal that we are maybe ready to talk about other bigger things?

[B]

I'm afraid I don't think so, no. And we have had prisoner swaps in the war before and it may be just a sort of expression of goodwill. It's important, I think, for both sides to be seen to be engaging in the process, even if they aren't. I mean, I think the territory, as we know, is such a huge sticking point, and I don't see any way to overcome this idea that Ukraine will perhaps give up territory which it currently holds and has held at a great deal of cost of blood and treasure in the last four years in return for peace. I can't see that going anywhere at the moment.

[A]

James Rogers and Elizabeth Brough, thank you both for the moment. We will have more from you shortly. But now, as the world government summit wraps up in Dubai and Russia and Ukraine wrap up those talks in Abu Dhabi, Monocle's Tom Edwards spoke with Latvia's Prime Minister Evika Salina in Dubai to get her perspective on diplomacy and Europe's role in the world today. Tom began by asking the prime Minister about the state of European security and her own agenda at the world Government summit.

[D]

There are different meetings and different discussions and I'm very grateful for UAE that they are hosting today, actually starting the peace negotiations again with Ukraine, Russia and the United States.

[A]

States.

[D]

I see Europe actually as well need to take a more active part. We as Nordic Baltic countries and Poland, we are very active and supporting Ukraine and therefore, sure, I'm using this platform as well to discuss, to understand how the possible peace is seen from Gulf countryside. I just had a meeting with President of uia. We had a very fruitful meeting and very deep discussions about how we can get the peace in Ukraine. And I think Europe really needs to have negotiations because we need to isolate Russia from financial income to boost their military. But we need to find a way how we can understand what's going on in Putin's head.

[E]

Well, yes, not an easy task at the best of times.

[B]

Times.

[E]

Talk to me about how you're seeking to leverage Latvia's positions, Latvia's strengths, we think of, you know, it's the biggest Baltic capital. It's got so many soft power assets as well as some hard power ones. As the sort of the grown up sibling, if you like, amongst your sort of Baltic colleagues. What ways can you go about leveraging soft power, hard power, diplomatic power? What does that process look like?

[D]

It's very sensitive issue because our society is very demanding to have a just peace in Ukraine. And we really understand how hybrid attacks, cyber attacks, sabotages on our country are trying to twist the politics and mindset of our people. But you know, we as well understand it's important for Ukrainians to have peace. So I think for me as a leader, it will be not an easy task as well to talk with my society, to talk with European people that if Ukrainians are ready for peace, we need to be beside them, next to them to be their back. But they're the first ones who will say when the peace is really the peace or there is a ceasefire. So therefore for us we have been boosting up our resilience. You know that we are spending 5% of our GDP for our military. We have a really strong NATO Stratcom center for hybrid attacks in our country. So we know those threats. But this time is very challenging and it asks for mass a strong leadership. And I think we as the leaders as well need to use this opportunity to show our society that we are there for them. Because I think too often we discuss in Europe that we need to discuss more, but we need to make decisions as well. And I believe we are able to make decisions.

[E]

Well just on that point, how does Europe do a better job at broadcasting those values, pushing that agenda, reassuring the world that it remains a group of countries that are like minded, that share these foundational values, the rule of law, robust structure. I sometimes feel like Europe doesn't do a good enough job at articulating that message. I think there are countries that do, I think Latvia certainly does. What does Europe need to do better to take that message globally, do you think?

[D]

I think we need to have these good relationships like we have with Nordic, Baltic, not just Baltic countries because maybe if it's seen like they have no other chance just to step up. But if we are together with Nordic, Baltic, Poland, Germany, uk, then we are much stronger voice. And if we share the same values like, like for Greenland, we were all united. I think we all were united. And with recent agreements with Mercosur, with India, Europe can really stand up sometimes. We really need to coordinate our decisions. And in recent time we have found a way how we can decide who are willing to decide, excluding maybe sometimes those who are not willing to decide because it has been a pretty long obstacle to all the Europeans to go forward. So not just go forward in security, but go forward economically as well to share the same values as you mentioned, because we need strong economic Europe as well. People really want to live good life, quality life, life of quality with international rules and sharing human rights. But as well, we need to understand that the world is changing. And in this world government summit, we are here really experiencing technologies are taking a much bigger place in our lives. So we need to cope up with this new reality. So therefore, sometimes for Europe, we sometimes are trying to predict how the technologies will go forward and we are trying to regulate it. I think for us, we need to give more flexibility to get reality lives their own life, but we need to cope up with that as well.

[A]

That was Monocle's Tom Edwards with Latvian Prime Minister Eva Kar at the world government summit in Dubai. You're listening to the Daily with me, Andrew Mullister. With me are Elizabeth Brauer and James Rogers. Sticking with the subject of European leaders in the Gulf, that is also where we find German Chancellor Friedrich Mertz this week undertaking a brisk whip through Riyadh, Doha and Abu Dhabi. Merz is soliciting, among other things, further custom for German military kit and more Middle Eastern energy for Germany. This engagement appears reflective of a few broader themes. An ebbing of Germany's squeamishness about exporting arms to countries which might imaginably actually use them, and an appreciat Germany's understanding that it may have to add the United States to Russia on its list of formerly trusted partners. Elizabeth, is something actually moving here with Germany? Because we've been waiting for something to actually move with Germany for about four years. But since Mertz became Chancellor, he does actually appear more serious, for better and for worse. We did see last year, for example, Germany allowing itself to sell Eurofighters to Saudi Arabia.

[C]

Well, Matz is as a person more energetic than Olaf Scholz's predecessor. That is an indisputable fact. And he's also very interested in foreign policy and also in security policy, whereas Olaf Scholz was a former finance minister. That was his thing. And we have seen that since Mats was elected or since his party formed the government that he has been traveling around the world and actually presenting Germany quite well, including in the United States, when I think we all remember European leaders had to team up to go for a collective visit. So yes, he is positioning Germany quite well or Quite energetically and as you say, or as you didn't say, but beggars can't be choosers in this global environment. You may have to work more closely with Saudi Arabia. And I was just listening to Deutschland Funk this morning, so German Public Radio, and the question came up, or the observation came up, that nobody much mentions Khashoggi anymore and that is a reflection of the state of the world where Saudi Arabia has become almost unavoidable as a partner because there aren't that many to choose from with growth potential.

[A]

Well, on that thought, Elizabeth, and just to follow it up, we did hear Latvia's prime minister, avid speaker Selina, talking to Tom Edwards in Dubai there about European values and the importance thereof. Do these sorts of outreach by Chancellor Mertz suggest that at least some of the bigger and further West European countries have maybe decided that European values are a luxury we cannot presently afford?

[C]

I don't think so. But when you have deals you want to strike and you don't have many countries with who with which to strike those deals, you have to go to countries like Saudi Arabia and by the way, also to India, which has been criticized very energetically in recent years, but now is one of the countries that look quite attractive. And this is the dilemma for liberal democracies in a crumbling international order that the things they stand for are not particularly fashionable anymore and they have to assert themselves in a world that's becoming more anarchic. And it is a dilemma that I'm sure European leaders feel on a daily basis. The dilemma between standing up for values and trying to deliver functioning economies, growing economies for their citizens reasons.

[A]

I mean, James, it's Germany of all countries should have learnt from the last four years. You would think that economically enmeshing yourself with a country which does not share your values and may honestly may not wish you all the best is not necessarily a guarantee of anything. Is this not looking a bit like the same sort of mistake? Granted that Saudi Arabia is not in the same position that Russia is to perpetrate proximate harm to Europe, but Saudi Arabia is not really any more reliable an ally, is it?

[B]

No. I mean, but I suppose that what's been proposed here is not anything on the level of the sort of strategic engagement that Germany and Russia had, you know, for sort of 20 years. True enough, particularly with the energy infrastructure which we saw being so rapidly dismantled, you know, as quickly as possible, at least with the escalation of the war in Ukraine and 2022. One thing that Saudi Arabia doesn't need I guess is European energy supply. But I think it's a reflection of the fact that, you know, as Elizabeth was saying, the rules based order is crumbling. Everything's pretty much up in the air and you take a new decision each day upon where you might best try to build a relationship because it's not clear where those are. It's, you know, after 80 years in Europe, it's unthinkable that, you know, the United States might be seen in some way as a security threat rather than security guarantor. But that's the world in which we're living.

[A]

I mean, yeah, it is only a matter of weeks, Elizabeth, since we were contemplating the prospect of the Danish American War of 2026. And this does seem like a good juncture to remind listeners that you also wrote a book called Goodbye Globalization, available now in all good stores. But does it strike you that we are maybe witnessing the beginning and here's your next book, A New Kind of Globalization because we have seen some hitherto unlikely looking deals and agreements reached recently. We've seen Canada and China concluding a large scale agreement, India and the European Union moving I think rather more hastily than they had for a long time towards that trade deal. Israel recognizing Somaliland.

[C]

It's all in flux, is it not? And what has changed and what I realized when writing this book was that that the economy is no longer, will no longer be coupled with sort of an outlook on how your country, how other countries should behave. So in the 90s, Western countries could afford the luxury to believe that if we build strong business links with other countries, they will become just like us. And a few countries did become just like us here in the West. If you look at, at countries like Poland, Czech Republic, Slovakia and so forth, that worked, but that was a luxury. Countries available for more trade now, Saudi Arabia, the uae, India and so forth are not going to want any lessons from Western countries about how to conduct their domestic politics. And it is an uncomfortable situation for Western governments. But that's where the growth is and think really paradoxical, Andrew, which I also realized when writing the book, it's that globalization has made these countries, many of these countries phenomenally wealthy. Saudi Arabia has benefited from globalization, the UAE and so forth, India too, and of course China. And as a result they can be, they can afford to be incredibly forceful in their foreign policy. They can afford to say, well, we expect this or that that from you. And we are not there to take orders or instructions or even recommendations.

[A]

I mean, at which point, James, I will remind listeners that the Current foreign desk explainer looks at the reasons that the United States has decided that now is the time to be friendly with a trio of military dictatorships in West Africa. Just before we move off this, are there any great reorderings in either of the ambats you've worked in, whether Russia or the Middle east that might occur? I mean, whether. I'm just thinking out loud. China perhaps yanking the rug on Russia, Saudi Arabia and Israel actually decided, you know what? Everyone assumes we're going to do it anyway. Let's just do it. And exchanging ambassadors.

[B]

I think that's been delayed by the war in Gaza. I mean, I think we're led to believe it was quite close before that. I suspect that while the Saudi political elite might be able to get on board with that, I think they realize that vast swathes of the population wouldn't. And even in somewhere that's hardly a functioning democracy, then public opinion does count for something. I mean, I think just to pick up on what Elizabeth has been saying, we live, frankly in a much more transactional world and one in which, you know, trade is not influenced by principles in the way that, I mean, it never was entirely, but it was a little bit more than it is now.

[A]

Well, moving along finally to Japan, where one picturesque location has declared itself a victim of its own success. The town of Fuji Yoshida has cancelled its annual cherry blossom festival, deciding that what they might shift in fridge magnets and snow globes is not worth the hassle of dealing with the hordes who descend upon their city park every year to photograph the pretty pink petals with a backdrop of Mount Fuji with a view to plastering these on Instagram, heedless of the fact that in the entire history of human endeavor, nobody has ever been interested in anybody else's holiday snaps. Exasperated citizens report incomers littering, trampling their gardens and even helping themselves to private bathrooms. Elizabeth, it's not the first Japanese town in roughly this vicinity to have taken action of this sort a couple of years back. Fujiko. I knew that was going to happen. Fujiko Waguchiko. I'd been practicing that all afternoon. Actually hung up a big screen to block the view of Mount Fuji at one location which was especially popular with pestilential tourists. Can you blame them?

[C]

No, I cheer them on. And I also also cheer on the city of Rome, which has decided to charge a fee for. For tourists wishing to take photos of themselves in front of the Fontana di Trevi, which is an excellent idea. I've never understood how romance or other Italians can Put up with all these tourists.

[A]

But weren't people just chucking money into that anyway?

[B]

Probably not the same as the figure.

[C]

They were chucking $0.01 coins and blocking that whole area for ordinary people. A much better idea is what Copenhagen does, which is inviting tourists to pick up litter to do various good deeds for the community in exchange for free entry into museums and so forth. Imagine what could be achieved if tourists did that in other cities as well.

[A]

Well, there isn't any litter in Copenhagen though. I was, I was there just the other day.

[C]

But it's left by the tourists.

[A]

I know you could, you could, the.

[B]

Tourists have picked it all up.

[A]

You could eat your dinner off the footpath in Copenhagen. But James, are you surprised that more places don't do this? Because on the one hand, obviously tourists are a massive boon. They bring money, they bring business, etc, etc, etc. But for a small town and I, you know, I think if for Fuji Yoshida, 10,000 people turning up, which was apparently about the average is, is 25% of the entire population of the. Again, that's, I mean, 10,000 tourists in London, fine, whatever. You could lose those easily enough. But in a small town, I'm not surprised.

[B]

I mean, I think, you know, it depends. I imagine that this town can afford to take the economic hit it's expecting to take. I mean we've seen this in Spain as well, haven't we? They're trying to, after having, you know, pioneered the mass market tourism model there 50 years or so ago, they want the same revenue for a smaller number of people in effect now. And there have been big problems there with, particularly with people doing short term lets that are taking properties off the, you know, from, from people who live in the cities. So I think this is, this is, you know, on the subject of reversing globalization, I think this may be another consequence of it. You know, there's a, it is easier in some ways to, you know, technologically at least to travel the world than it ever has been. It's becoming politically more difficult, for example. But I'm not surprised about this at all. And I think if it works for them and they don't suffer significantly economically, I wouldn't be at all surprised if other towns nearby decided to follow suit.

[A]

But is it surprising though, Elizabeth? Because I do find this surprising that the market doesn't take care of this. Because the one thing, and I'm sure we've had this conversation in this spot before, the one thing that all tourists don't want when they go to a given place is Other bloody tourists. So why do people keep going to the same places?

[C]

Because they don't listen to you, perhaps, Andrew.

[A]

Well, that's a problem in other realms beyond this as well. The world could be such a happier, better organized place.

[C]

But it comes back to what we were talking about earlier, which is people's limited range of reading. If you were to read some of the great travel writers, you might get inspired to go to a place other than the overrun Spanish destinations. But, but it's, that's. That is the most obvious. Those are. These are the most obvious places to go. So people will. People go and they. That somebody should disabuse them of the notion that, that holiday pictures are useful. As you said, they, they are boring to everybody else and not even the people, people who took them themselves will ever look at them again.

[A]

Yeah, no, I, I do. I do find it extraordinary because I am old enough as, as we, as we both are, James, to, to. I mean, Elizabeth clearly isn't, but to remember a time before there was sort of social media things and yet you would occasionally get the point at a social gathering where someone say, does anybody want to see my holiday snaps? At which point you would pretend your appendix had burst and go home.

[B]

Infamously effective way of clearing a room.

[A]

Absolutely. But we did want to close by asking you each in turn. I'll ask you first, James, if you have ever witnessed yourself any, or perhaps even participated in. In. Because I know you travel as a football fan. Noteworthily, appalling behavior by tourists.

[B]

Obviously my travel as a football fan, I've never witnessed any bad behavior.

[A]

No, because. Because Manchester City fans are known for their courtesy, decorum and respect for local traditions.

[B]

I think that's a very good way of putting it. I will reveal that as a student, when I went into railing, I went to Venice. It's the only time I've been. I went in September in the late 1980s and I loathe the overcrowding so much. I've actually never been back and I've always said to myself, I'll go again in the winter sometime and see it. But I've never been back. It gave such a big bad impression to me. I've never been back and I imagine, you know, if we read the stories about the cruise ships, which I know they've taken measures subsequently to control, I'm not surprised. And I have the greatest sympathy with the people of Venice. It put me off and I've never been back.

[A]

My scorching hot Venice tip is the only time I've ever been. There was in November, it was really cold and there had been well publicized rainstorms and floods, flooding.

[B]

Quite atmospheric.

[A]

It actually really was. And there obviously were tourists there. You're never going to get a quiet Venice, but it was quiet enough that when I got on one of those weird little boats from Marco Polo Airport to Venice, there was nobody else on it. So I got my own sort of private launch taking me into Venice. Elizabeth, have you ever participated in any dreadful behavior by by tourists abroad?

[C]

No, but I see it on a daily basis here in London, specifically on Westminster Bridge where where there are cycle lanes on both sides and because law breaking ice cream vans stop in those cycle lanes, they are full of tourists and the great cyclists of London don't get to go across Westminster Bridge. They have to stop and plead with the tourists and that is incredibly annoying.

[A]

London Cyclists if there is any one body of people even more than Manchester City fans, regarded as models of decor and forum courtesy and law abiding rule observing solid citizens, then it is surely them. Elizabeth Braugh and James Rogers, thank you both for joining us. That is all for this edition of the Monocle Daily. The show was produced by Chris Chermack and researched by Annalise Maynard. Our sound engineer was Mariella Bevan. Amanda Muller here in London. The Daily is back at the same time tomorrow. Thanks for listening.

[B]

Sam.