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- [00:00]
Caroline Frost
You're listening to the Monocle Daily, first
- [00:02]
Fernando Augusto Pacheco
broadcast on 31 March 2026 on Monaco Radio.
- [00:07]
Andrew Muller
Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu says operations in Iran are on schedule, but whose the Eurovision Song Contest annexes Asia and how footage of a 35 year old arrest captured the heart of a nation. I'm Andrew Muller. The Monocle Daily starts. Hello and welcome to the Monocle Daily. Coming to you from our studios here at Midori House in London. I'm Andrew Muller. My guests Caroline Frost and Robin Lustig will discuss the day's big stories. And we'll hear from Jessie Ware as she prepares to release her new album, Super Bloom. Stay tuned. All that and more coming up right here on the Monocle Daily. This is the Monocle Daily. I'm Andrew Muller and I'm joined today by Caroline Frost, the writer, journalist and broadcaster, and Robin Lustig, journalist and broadcaster, former presenter of the World Tonight on Radio 4. Hello to you both. Hello, Caroline. You bring us exciting news. You've been having an actual honest to goodness movie filmed in your flat.
- [01:20]
Caroline Frost
I know. I can't say too much. It's all on the down low. However, quite extraordinary. You hear about these things happening and you think, oh, that'll never happen to me. And then one day before Christmas, it did. Three months I spent in exile, eventually allowed back, creeping back in to collect post and trip over cables. And what I can tell you is that even for the most independent of films, my goodness, those crews are big and it is military in its exercise and logistics. I came away very, very impressed.
- [01:51]
Robin Lustig
Did you recognise your flat when you went back?
- [01:54]
Caroline Frost
It's funny, when I walked in because they had completely dressed it differently, so all my apparently far too youthful furniture was stored. Yes, flattered. And I walked back in with my key and it was as though somebody else had moved into my flat and I'd sold it and I was sneaking back in. Very strange experience.
- [02:14]
Andrew Muller
This is evocative of an old Stephen Wright joke where he talks about going back to his apartment and realizing that somebody's taken everything out of it and replaced it with identical items. And he calls his best friend to tell him, who replies, do I know you? But this is. It is a big deal. And listeners, I do know who the director is because Caroline told me that I am, of course, sworn to secrecy. It is someone of whom I think most of our listeners would have heard. Do you get a cameo at all? Do you. Do you walk in carrying a tray?
- [02:45]
Caroline Frost
Mrs. Overall. So what happened was on the very, very last day of filming. They had painted my bedroom a different color and I was invited to choose a new color to restore it. And I bought test and I said, can I pop into the bedroom just to stick some colors on the wall? And they said, no, they're filming the final scene. And I just had visions of sort of Eric Morcom style sneaking in behind with a paintbrush. Don't mind me. So, no, no cameo for me. But it's going to be very strange going to the cinema and seeing my abode up there writ large.
- [03:21]
Andrew Muller
I hope you announce loudly and repeatedly throughout the film, that's my flag. Robin, you have not a big name director filming in your flat, but you have, and this is a. A seamless segue which is a seasoned professional I'm sure is about to impress the hell out of you. You've been to Malta.
- [03:39]
Robin Lustig
That's a fantastic link that. Yeah, I've been to Malta, yes. For the first time. I mean, as you know, I've traveled quite a lot in my life, but I'd never been to Malta. Very small island in the Mediterranean, south of Sicily. And I liked it a lot.
- [03:53]
Andrew Muller
Yeah, I've been a couple of times. It's delightful.
- [03:56]
Robin Lustig
Great history, great culture, good food. And the sun shone in February, which was very nice. And my wife and I spent a few days there on holiday, pooching about, going into churches and museums.
- [04:08]
Caroline Frost
I have a question. Malta famously earned the George Cross as a.
- [04:14]
Robin Lustig
It defended itself against the baddies during the Second World War.
- [04:17]
Caroline Frost
How much of a fanfare do they make of that to this day?
- [04:20]
Andrew Muller
A lot. They did literally stick it right on the flag.
- [04:25]
Robin Lustig
Yeah, it's a big deal.
- [04:28]
Caroline Frost
Great.
- [04:29]
Andrew Muller
We will start not in Malta, but in another segue right there. Not in Malta, but in Iran. With the ongoing progress of Operation Epic fubar. The good news, at least according to Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu, for whom this is of course all good news, is that the war is definitely beyond its halfway point. The bad news, delivered in the form of a subsequent clarification, is that he was not talking in terms of time, but of operations. In other developments, US President Donald Trump is once again testing the possibilities of deciding he's bored with the whole thing, urging the United Kingdom and other non participants to go and reopen the Strait of Hormuz themselves if they care so damn much about it. Robyn, we will come to Netanyahu's statement shortly. Not that I am wishing to insinuate you were there at the time, but this is, this is all starting to get a bit reverse. Suez Crisis, isn't it?
- [05:22]
Robin Lustig
I suppose it is. I mean, there are so many reasons why this is all so awful. I mean, all war is awful. People are dying, paces being destroyed. But the division between what used to be called the Western alliance, NATO, the United States and Europe is now deeper than I think it's been since Suez. Probably at that time, America said to the British and the French and the Israelis, we're not with you on what you're doing around the Suez Canal. On this occasion, it's the other way around. The Europeans are saying to the Americans, we're not with you. Big difference, of course, is that you've got a president of the United States who uses language, how can I put it in a way which previous presidents have not he shoots his mouth off, he says things which contradict each other in one end of the sentence to the other. So it's very grim, it's potentially very serious. And I just don't know how we're going to get out of it, frankly.
- [06:22]
Andrew Muller
I mean, going back to Netanyahu's statement, Caroline, do we think he actually thinks the job is half done, or is this kind of a placeholder statement that basically he is happy to keep battering Iran as long as he can keep the United States on side?
- [06:38]
Caroline Frost
It reminded me of that maths problem in school where you have a you're told a frog is going to leap from the lily pad to the bank, but he's only going to jump halfway, and then the next time he jumps half again and so on, and you realize you're explained so perfectly and visually and that he will never reach the bank because each time it's the, it's, what is it? Differentials? Dy dx. And this is how I felt when I read this statement. I thought, well, we don't know how long the piece of string is. He's the referee of this, this quantitative measurement that he's proffered. We have no idea what 100% of completion of operations means because it hasn't been laid out. Therefore, perhaps he's being entirely accurate and precise about his measurements. Sure that what we've seen, even just as you say with the pair of them, it's just been, well, a mission creep, is to imply that there was once a mission. So I fear that this is just turning into a piece of string, that we have no idea which vector it's going in and certainly which length, which must be disastrous for all of these neighboring states, particularly in fairness, Robyn, is
- [07:52]
Andrew Muller
it not arguably the case that at least Israel's objectives are clearer than the United States. Certainly the war is much more popular among, among Israelis than it is among Americans, because Israel's case is not without merit, which is that the Islamic Republic of Iran is in words certainly, and indeed somewhat an existential threat to it.
- [08:16]
Robin Lustig
I might argue with the word existential, but certainly a threat.
- [08:19]
Andrew Muller
A nuclear armed Iran would be.
- [08:21]
Robin Lustig
A nuclear armed Iran would threaten Israel's long established position as the only nuclear, the only nuclear armed state in the region. And Israel is very keen to retain that status. I think the way I would explain what Netanyahu has said is that he understands that for American political reasons, it's important to establish that Israel does see this conflict ending at some point. It's not a never ending war. I notice he didn't say anything about Israel's war in Lebanon, which is of course linked to what's happening in Iran, but separate from it. I think he must be aware of the fact that Trump desperately wants to find some way out of this mess. And if he can help him by saying, yes, we understand that this will come to an end and we are halfway through whatever it was he said, then that's probably quite useful to Mr. Trump.
- [09:14]
Andrew Muller
I mean, sir Keir Starmer, the Prime Minister of the United Kingdom, Caroline, has actually in recent days started to take, possibly because he realizes it's playing quite well for him, an increasingly robust tone.
- [09:26]
Caroline Frost
Oh, Andrew.
- [09:27]
Andrew Muller
To the effect that, you know, we're not going to get involved in this. We don't want any part of it. It's not our fight. But is the problem not likely going to become that the opening of the Strait of Hormuz or the reopening of it is in the national interest of the United Kingdom and pretty much everyone
- [09:45]
Caroline Frost
else and everybody else in the world who drives a car. So, yes, I mean, Keir Starmer is now dancing on a pin because we know that he's dispatching our greatest emissary, King Charles, off on another count them state visit. I mean, even surely Donald Trump must get to a peak pomp where I
- [10:08]
Andrew Muller
want 10 quid on a convenient bout
- [10:10]
Caroline Frost
of COVID Oh, do you or yes. Well, it's interesting, isn't it, that it's almost leaning back into sort of ancient diplomacy and thinking that the king is going to somehow make it all or square all those circles. I think Keir Summer is so far so good, as you say. Yes, it's playing well. But I think that he also does believe I'm a Kia Sama Stan. I think that he does know what the right thing to do is. He just gets his hand tied in this country by a. The politics around him. Of all these closing in walls of these different parties, the hard left, the hard right, but also the right wing press just have it in for him. So we can't really, when we see these headlines of how badly he's doing on every turn. I'm not sure I believe all of it. But yes, he's got a problem. The good news is, is that perhaps this is the glue that Europe and NATO needed to redefine its needs, its alliances and its raison d'.
- [11:12]
Robin Lustig
Etre.
- [11:13]
Andrew Muller
Well, to Russia now, which can we shock you? Turns out not to be a dauntless, impregnable bastion of free expression. Russian authorities appear to be stepping up a crackdown on use of the Internet, which has been ongo ever since they launched their 72 hour lightning conquest of Ukraine a little over four years ago. Many messaging services, social media platforms and other websites were already theoretically off limits to Russians, other than Russian politicians, obviously. But many Russians had swerved these blocks by using VPNs or virtual private networks. These are now also in the sights of the authorities, who appear, for some unfathomable reason, keen to stop Russians exchanging information. Caroline, in a contest between the Russian bureaucratic apparatus and young Internet users. Who's your money on?
- [12:03]
Caroline Frost
My money is on the youth because they have got energy, they are tireless, they are rebellious and they're just not having it. This is being concocted by somebody who does not remember the queue around Red Square when they opened McDonald's. Those Russian youngsters want democracy, they want a piece of the West. I'm sure there are parts of Russia that they embrace wholeheartedly. Wouldn't you? They have so much to be proud of in their history, but particularly with this happening. I mean, it's not what it was. This is not the age of Stalin. Doors are permeable and every single time it's like Bugs Bunny and the bloke who used to chase him. As soon as they crack down on one vpn, it pops up. It only energizes their curiosity about how to get around it.
- [12:54]
Andrew Muller
There are other reports suggesting, Robyn, that increasing paranoia is descending upon the Russian regime. Do by the line that he is Putin, that is. And those around him are somewhat spooked by these reports that one of the means by which the Israelis and the Americans knew where various high value Iranian targets were is that for some years they have hacked all the traffic cameras in Tehran and were therefore able to Follow people wherever they went.
- [13:22]
Robin Lustig
Yeah. I mean, if you're one of those people who think that the world would be a better place if President Putin was not the man in charge in the Kremlin, then you could argue that this is, in a funny sort of way, good news. Because I, I think, yes, I do buy the theory that this is a sign that the Putin Kremlin is increasingly worried about what relatively free access to outside information is doing to particularly the youth of Russia. So, you know, like all autocrats everywhere, like all authoritarians everywhere, and through time, they want to control information. Anybody who's ever read 1984 by George Orwell knows why that is so important. If you control access to information, you control largely the way people think, and that is to the benefit of the Autocrat. So, arguably, Mr. Putin is worried. On the other hand, this war that we've just been talking about is doing him the world of good because it's increased the price of oil, it's increased oil revenues going to Russia, and that is enabling the Russian economy to survive perhaps just a little bit longer than would otherwise be the case.
- [14:28]
Andrew Muller
But on the subject of the Russian youth, Caroline, does it surprise you that as far as we can tell, we are not yet at some sort of critical breaking point because we are coming up for 1500 days of full scale war? We're three days short of that. I think if I've counted right, by Ukrainian estimates, obviously there have been 1.3 million Russian casualties in this war, and currently that number is going up at around another thousand a day. That's dead or incapacitated. That is already nearly one actual Russian in 100. And that burden will be disproportionately falling on Russia's youth, as war tends to. Are you surprised that we have not yet seen a complete unravelling? Because there is this common wisdom that the 10 year misadventure in Afghanistan was what precipitated the demise of the Soviet Union, and numbers of Soviet casualties in Afghanistan were nowhere close to this.
- [15:25]
Caroline Frost
It's quite depressing to realize that that tipping point has not been arrived at. I think of moments like the death of Navalny that caused such horror across the world, but also in Russia. But what we saw was a fresh energy by the state to completely clamp down on any resistance, any oppression. That was a huge, the opposite of a morale booster. I think, for the resistance, however, it's a trickling effect, isn't it? Perhaps it will be one of those things where politics happens very slowly in that country and then suddenly happens very quickly. We've seen it, the Cold War, we've seen the Wall come down. We know that these things come out of nowhere, and we can only hope that that does happen. But it is strange. You would think that the numbers game is on the side of youth, but so far they're holding that piece of wood against the youth, and it's through very negative and traumatic means.
- [16:25]
Andrew Muller
Are you surprised by this, Robyn? Because obviously there are precedents in Russian history for a critical mass of troops deployed along an immobile front, just kind of collectively go, what are we all doing? And basically turn around and point their guns in the opposite direction.
- [16:44]
Robin Lustig
Yeah, I mean, I think Caroline makes a very good point. Any authoritarian regime looks impregnable until suddenly it doesn't. And the word suddenly, I think, is absolutely crucial. I mean, anybody who remembers the events of 1989, the end of the Cold War, the demise of the Soviet Union, it all happened remarkably quickly. And so it is possible that something will happen in Moscow almost overnight. My fear is that if Mr. Putin indeed does depart the scene one way or another, he will not necessarily be replaced by a liberal Western leading democrat. But I suspect a change is coming, because no country can survive the kinds of losses and the kind of stresses that Russia has been experiencing over the last four years without it having some kind of political impact.
- [17:35]
Andrew Muller
Well, to Asia generally and to the need to issue condolences to our listeners on that continent. An Asian equivalent to the Eurovision Song Contest has been announced to be broadcast from Bangkok this November 14, leaving barely eight months to stock up on whisky, earplugs, and possibly depending on one's tolerance for suboptimal pop music, hemlock. Ten countries have already signed up. The contest's website menaces that there are, quote, more to follow, frankly, agog to find out what North Korea comes up with. It will be officially called, it says here, the Eurovision Song Contest, Asia. Caroline, can you wait?
- [18:13]
Caroline Frost
No. And I'm really very personally offended by that tone that you took in your introduction to that subject, Andrew, because you mock the Eurovision Song Contest at your peril.
- [18:26]
Andrew Muller
No, I do, annually.
- [18:28]
Caroline Frost
Well, all I can tell you is that in 1956, two organizations took root and one of them was what used to be called the. The eec. Am I right? And thank you, Robin. And the other one was the EBU's song contest. And it has shone a light in political corners that historians know that is the canary in the coal mine. It has taught us so many things about the structure, about the. The loyalties, the alliances Across Europe and now obviously beyond. And I think that you are shooting yourself in the foot as a self respecting cultural historian.
- [19:06]
Andrew Muller
Well, the thing is, Robin, my own attitude to the Eurovision Song Contest is, to be honest, Caroline, and, and please put down the scissors. I do enjoy literally everything about it, but the actual music. I, I, I'm, I'm tremendously here for all the, the scandals and controversies. Those are always terrific fun. I absolutely adore the politically motivated block voting. And I did want to ask you, do, do we expect to see that in Asia as well, regional alliances and hostilities expressed of Eurovision voting? Because there's lots of countries involved in this who really cannot stand each other.
- [19:43]
Robin Lustig
Until you made that last remark, Andrew. I was going to say I was in the Muller corner on this particular debate, but I part company with you because I loathe everything about the Eurovision Song Contest. Starting, of course, with the music.
- [19:56]
Andrew Muller
We have a spectrum of opinion around the world. We've broken out of our usual cozy liberal consensus.
- [20:02]
Robin Lustig
Let us just start with, with the nonsense of this name, the Eurovision Song Contest. Note the syllable euro. Asia.
- [20:09]
Andrew Muller
I mean, everyone's clearly going to call it Asia Vision, right?
- [20:12]
Robin Lustig
Well, of course they are. So why not, why not at least start there? I can't imagine what Asia has done to deserve this. It's not as if they don't have enough problems, but no, I think it's a dreadful development. Fortunately, I won't be compelled to watch it. At least I don't think I'll be compelled to watch it. And I won't.
- [20:30]
Andrew Muller
Well, I had you down for my Eurovision Song Contest Asia Party, Robin, but I'll be scratching you off the list. Will it work though, Caroline? Because this has been tried before. They tried something of the sort. Well, it's been tried before in Asia. There's been various ideas floated for doing something similar in Asia, but they never came to fruition. They did do the American song contest in 2012.
- [20:56]
Caroline Frost
Ill fated. Ill fated.
- [20:57]
Andrew Muller
It sucked and everybody hated it. Yes, but they haven't done it since.
- [21:00]
Caroline Frost
But yes, yes, quite rightly, and I'm glad they haven't. But that really is comparing apples with pears, because an American state divided contest is a very different beast from all of the cultures and foods and tastes that you get across Asia. And of course they have a very strong, proud national identity. I mean, one of the changes that happened to Eurovision Song Contest was, I think back, I'm gonna say maybe 90s, was that people were then allowed to start singing in English. And of course that homogen, the Whole thing. And it just became a sort of a race to the bottom. I think that what you get in contrast are countries like Thailand, like Vietnam, Bollywood, Korea. Oh, my goodness, the. The cultural pride in Koreans, you would
- [21:48]
Andrew Muller
have to think, on paper, South Korea would start favorites, of course, and end favorites.
- [21:53]
Robin Lustig
I mean, my. My supposition is that they'll win every single year.
- [21:56]
Caroline Frost
Well, not if you're Thai, apparently, because they expect Thailand to win it every single year. And they're also putting in a big bid to. To be the hosts just because they think that they cultural hub of that region. So it's already begun, but I can't wait. I think it will be delightful and in fact, it will be fresher and more energetic. And those countries have a proper pride in themselves. We. I mean, the uk, we know that we've become the. The wooden spoon of this entire enterprise since we started taking it too seriously. And unlike some people in this room who I feel aren't taking it seriously enough. But I think that we will get those fresh youngsters that will come and bring it and we might start to cover it. In fact, I'm wondering if the UK should. Should seek to apply because they might actually do quite well.
- [22:40]
Andrew Muller
Well, on a similar line, Robert, and this is another just liquid segue in a show full of them, because our last item will be addressing an Australian concern, a likely controversy attending this one is going to be the question, well, should Australia, in fact, be punted out of the Eurovision Song Contest and told to compete in the Eurovision Song Contest Asia? That being broadly the part of the world in which Australia is, I think
- [23:06]
Robin Lustig
it probably needs to be part of Eurovision Song Contest Australia, doesn't it?
- [23:11]
Andrew Muller
Well, we could do Eurovision Song Contest Oceania. We could go up against New Zealand, the Cook Islands, New Caledonia, Fiji, Tahiti.
- [23:19]
Robin Lustig
Sounds a very good idea.
- [23:20]
Caroline Frost
All those different musical beats.
- [23:23]
Andrew Muller
Well, to Australia now, which has today elevated an extremely popular and arguably distinctly Australian clip to its National Film and Sound archives. It is this, gentlemen. This is Democracy Manifest. What is the charge? Eating a meal? A succulent Chinese meal. That being the 1991 arrest of Jack Carlson, a career criminal whose wounded dignity at getting his collar felt yet again became a popular online meme. Carlson died in 2024, aged 82. By then, something approaching a national folk hero, his passing was widely and sincerely mourn. Over the last few years, Australian racetracks have been graced by a gelding called Democracy manifest. Current record nine wins from 40 starts. Robyn, what do we think people like about this clip?
- [24:18]
Robin Lustig
I think the phrase democracy Manifest is so inappropriate for the event at which it was uttered. It has a real, it has a real charm to it and it deserves its place in history.
- [24:31]
Andrew Muller
See, I was thinking, Caroline, that the key word here is succulent. And I think about this a lot because when one writes radio scripts, one does try to keep an ear out for phrases or even sounds that will land. And sometimes a single word can turn the whole thing like that clip. If he says, what is the charge eating a meal, a delicious Chinese meal or a tasty Chinese meal? It doesn't land nearly as well. It's, it's, it's succulent, it's got the hard C, which always anchors a word. And it's just the, the glorious incongruity of it.
- [25:05]
Caroline Frost
I think we're seduced by a contradiction and what we have here is career criminal who you expect to be blue collar, down on his heel, a bit ashamed, led away in cuffs, nothing much to say. And instead you have a, an upright chest, broad, articulate man who appears to be speaking in what they used to call Australian English. And I think it's the combination, the contrast between those two things is very charming.
- [25:35]
Andrew Muller
I think it's just about possible, Robin, that he'd had one or two drinks with his succulent Chinese meal as well. Do you think, though, it is worthy of this recognition? Because this is a big deal. The National Film and Sound Archive. This is supposed to be Australia's treasury of the images and sounds that define our nation.
- [25:53]
Robin Lustig
Yeah, I do. I think it does deserve its place in history. I liked your use of the word incongruity because to me that's what sums up the delight of this particular clip. The words he uses are so incongruous in the contrast context in which he used them. And yeah, I, if I were Australian, I would be proud of him.
- [26:15]
Andrew Muller
I, I think there's a thing going on here, Caroline, which also plays into my country folks slightly deluded self image. I mean, as it's occasionally pointed out, we, we love the idea of the larrikin as we call them, the sort of the, the, the genial, good natured rebel.
- [26:32]
Caroline Frost
Dundee et al.
- [26:33]
Andrew Muller
Exactly that sort. And we, and we do like this idea that we are in, you know, descended from, from convicts and which is literally the case in my case. But as more than one more skeptical observer has pointed out, the thing about the nation of convicts narrative is that we are also by definition a nation of cops. And, and, and, and I think I, I think what people like about this is the win for the convict.
- [26:58]
Caroline Frost
Well, for sure. And also it's taking it to the man, isn't it? Because, I mean, there's probably no coincidence that I think still to this day, a 30 year old film, the Castle is such an important part of Australian cultural self identity, about a man who. This big corporation comes along and sweeps up a bunch of houses, buys them all off, wants to put an airplane Runway there and there's one little man who will not be bought. And I think that that has entered the bones of your average Australian person. And so when they see somebody like this on tv, they think, there goes me.
- [27:37]
Andrew Muller
Well, we did want to close by asking you each in turn. I'll ask you, Robyn, if there is a clip that you would elevate to a. To the UK's National Film and Sound Archive as, as representative of something great or at least distinctive about this nation.
- [27:53]
Robin Lustig
Yeah, I mean, as a broadcaster, I suppose inevitably I. I look to broadcast clips to sort of sum something up about Britain and its identity. And there is one clip, admittedly now many decades old. It dates back to 1937, when there was a review of the Royal Navy FL attended by King George VI and the BBC commentator who was a former naval commander.
- [28:21]
Andrew Muller
I'm already laughing because I'm familiar with
- [28:23]
Robin Lustig
Lieutenant Commander Thomas Woodruff was the commentator. And he went on air having spent a little bit of time with his former comrades in the officer's mess, where it seems he had imbibed perhaps one glass of rum too many, and the resulting broadcast went down into history. It was wonderful. But what makes it specifically so wonderfully British is that after he was taken off air for having been drunk and virtually incomprehensible, he was suspended, as you would expect, for a grand total of seven days, and then went back on air. Had a glorious career for many years afterwards as if nothing had happened. And to me I think that shows a wonderfully British spirit.
- [29:03]
Andrew Muller
Well, let's hear it.
- [29:05]
Robin Lustig
At the present moment, the whole street is lit up.
- [29:08]
Interviewer (possibly Angelica Jobson or another correspondent)
When I say lit up, I mean lit up by fairy lamps. We've forgotten the whole Royal Review.
- [29:17]
Andrew Muller
We've forgotten the Royal Review.
- [29:19]
Robin Lustig
The whole thing is lit up by fairy lamps.
- [29:23]
Andrew Muller
The fairy lamps clearly made an impression. Robin, in your own long and glorious broadcasting career, did you ever take to the microphone having had one or two sharpeners?
- [29:34]
Robin Lustig
Not that I recall. I remember being told very early on in my career that it was important not to imbibe alcohol before going on air, because the microphone can pick up things which you don't think anybody else will Pick up. And I do remember one colleague who was in the habit of having a couple of glasses of wine before she went on air. And she made the mistake of writing a line of script which included the word octogenarian.
- [30:01]
Andrew Muller
Oof.
- [30:02]
Robin Lustig
If you've had two glasses too many, octogenarian can be a bit of a problem.
- [30:09]
Andrew Muller
Caroline, what would your choice be?
- [30:11]
Caroline Frost
I went back into my childhood and I thought about the radio and the only thing, the first thing that came to mind was the theme of the Archers, which is now still the longest running drama in any format in the world. It's been running since we. We looked it up, didn't we? 1951. And it's had the same theme tune ever since the beginning. And it always takes me back.
- [30:33]
Andrew Muller
We also have. But, Caroline, that piece of music, aside from here's the Archers, what does it signify to you?
- [30:55]
Caroline Frost
England Bucolic idyll Maypole dancing country greens. In sum, just a hark to a simpler, sweeter age.
- [31:06]
Andrew Muller
Amazing. It's not the national anthem. Caroline Frost and Robin Lustig, thank you both for joining us. Finally, on today's show, British singer Jessie Ware requires no introduction. She's about to release a album called Super Bloom. And to discuss her new release, Monocle Radio's senior correspondent, Fernando Augusto Bco met Jesse at her London home.
- [31:25]
Fernando Augusto Pacheco
I wanted to return to a previous record in the first record at Devotion, which, you know, I felt had soulful elements and I'm really proud of. And it was my debut record where I was far less confident. I was terrified. I was younger, I was more naive. And so I wanted to kind of take the beauty of Devotion, but with this maturity and confidence and be able to not rectify what Devotion was, because Devotion was this kind of, you know, very celebrated record. But I wanted to return to this world that I felt like maybe I jumped away from too quickly. So that was Super Bloom in all its kind of decadence and glory, but with this, you know, added experience and confidence that I'd gained from being an artist for a long time. Now.
- [32:19]
Interviewer (possibly Angelica Jobson or another correspondent)
I think this is a perfect explanation because in this album in particular, I mean, of course, it is about desire. It is sexy. Continues. But there's a beauty like a suave beauty of the 70s. You know, you think of Mini Riperton as well. You can be even a diva, you know, you show your voice even more.
- [32:36]
Fernando Augusto Pacheco
I would say I love the kind of notion of a diva. In my head, it's this kind of celebrated woman that is unapologetic, that gives you everything in her Vocal and her storytelling and also glamour and regality, but with a kind of touch of humor. So all these kind of notions of the diva, I try to take aspects of.
- [33:02]
Interviewer (possibly Angelica Jobson or another correspondent)
Tell us about the song. So you told me that, you know, you wrote some songs and then you said, you know what? I might not use this for Superbloom. I mean, to make an album. It feels very organic in that sense. Right. Sometimes you have an idea in your mind, but then you're like, you know what? This is not working. My heart's not here yet. So tell us about that. Did you always feel that making an album is like that, an organic process?
- [33:23]
Fernando Augusto Pacheco
Absolutely. And actually it's really funny. I went to the Tracey Emin exhibition last night and Harry Weller was. Who's her creative director was this will come back to my music. But, like, it was interesting what he was talking about. He works with Tracy very, very closely, and he was talking about this one piece of work where they'd run out of camera canvases. And she wasn't happy with the first bit of work, so she drew a line down the middle. And so she didn't. She's not erasing the work that she didn't like, but she kind of goes over it with a wash and it's still there. The mistake, I say, in inverted commas because it's beautiful and it's. And it all gets realized. But this idea that you are constantly working and you're evolving and it is organic. And from one mistake, or what you think is a mistake, you create another outcome. And so I need all those songs that I created that weren't right to. That informed the record that it is now. It's a process and it's frustrating, but also exciting. And I mean, it has to be creative. So you're there, you're chipping away at that idea of what is this? And, you know, Superbloom came quite late to the record, but that's when I feel like I was in my flow. I was galloping by that point. So that's why Superbloom Bloom has all the kind of. All the references in it. It has the groove, it has the vocal, it has the occasion, it has the kind of choral elements, it has the arrangements, it has it all. Because I think that's when I felt like I was totally free and buzzing.
- [34:57]
Interviewer (possibly Angelica Jobson or another correspondent)
And let's talk about perhaps some songs in particular. I love Ride.
- [35:08]
Fernando Augusto Pacheco
Hold my hips, Watch me move I'm back Beautiful. Hold my hips, Watch me move I
- [35:20]
Interviewer (possibly Angelica Jobson or another correspondent)
think it's such a sexy electro. And there's the annual Morricone kind of sample. Can you tell us a bit more? I love it. Yeah.
- [35:27]
Fernando Augusto Pacheco
Yeah. We were writing. I was writing with my friend Jack Pinate and Karma Kid, and I wanted to make something for the club, and particularly for this club in Glastonbury called NYC down low. And, you know, this was me kind of imagining, manifesting this idea of what I would have loved to have been able to. You know, I mean, I love what they do there. It's amazing. But this was me trying to knock at the door and be like, hey. And I think Cowboy Carter had just come out. So I think maybe that's why I was consumed by cowboys. And I thought, cowboys and disco. Hmm. I mean, everyone's done a version of a cowboy something, but I hadn't. And I was like, fuck it. You know, there's a reason everyone wants to do it. This kind of archetypal kind of hero in there. It's sexy, it's costume, it's all of it. And so we were just messing around, and we had that great bass line that. And, you know, that's the great thing about dance music. You need a great beat and a baseline, and you're over halfway there.
- [36:27]
Caroline Frost
Right?
- [36:28]
Fernando Augusto Pacheco
We were just messing around, and I kind of were doing the spoken thing and wanting to kind of beckon somebody, in, which, you know, I've done before with songs like what's your pleasure? Or shake the bottle in way. So I wanted to have this commanding character. And I feel like I feel the most kind of obnoxious and confident and not powerful. But there's like, I go into this character, and she was there. And the whistling. Well, the Ennio Morricone from Good, Bad, the Ugly. I wanted to play with the idea that I wasn't necessarily the vocal. The vocal hook wasn't the hook. It was this iconic piece of music, which I didn't think that we were actually gonna be allowed to use. It was us messing around. I was like, right, we're doing a song about a cowboy. Well, let's go to the most obvious theme tune. And it just felt so good. Like, too good. It was kind of a joke. And, you know, we then had the fear that this state wouldn't allow us to have it, and they did. So we went through all the right motion. You know, we did it right, and it's. It's a joy, and I love it. And I think it will be one of those songs that hopefully, like, lives on in the club.
- [37:36]
Andrew Muller
That was Jesse ware speaking to Monacle's Fernando Augusto Pacheco. Super Bloom is out on April 17th. You can listen to the full interview on the Monocle Weekly. That's it for this edition of the Monocle Daily. Thanks to our panelists today, Caroline Frost and Robin Lustig. Today's show was produced by Tom Webb and Angelica Jobson and researched by Anneliese Maynard. Our sound engineer was Elliot Greenfield. I'm Andrew Muller here in London. The Daily is back at the same time tomorrow. Thanks for listening.
- [38:04]
Caroline Frost
It.