Why Armenia has become Putin’s latest target

Summary

The Monocle Daily

Episode: Why Armenia has become Putin’s latest target

Date: April 2, 2026
Host: Andrew Muller
Guests: Patricia (Patti) Cohen (New York Times), Stephen Diehl (Russia analyst & Monocle contributor)

---

Overview

This episode centers on Russia's mounting pressure on Armenia as Vladimir Putin responds to Armenia’s flirtations with the European Union, examining the regional implications and Armenia's limited options. Other segments tackle the symbolism of UNESCO’s heritage protections in Lebanon, the daunting logistical/political challenges of India’s new census (with the return of caste questions), the evolution of Japanese (and global) school uniforms, and a “Letter from Iran” featuring moving accounts from civilians navigating the dangers and confusion of war.

---

Key Discussion Points

---

1. Armenia: Putin’s Latest Target

(Starts at 04:27)

Summary:

• Vladimir Putin publicly warns Armenia against deepening ties with the EU, explicitly stating the impossibility of dual membership in the EU economic bloc and Russia’s Eurasian Economic Union.
• Putin also expresses concern for Armenian opposition politicians, a comment seen as an ironic or thinly-veiled threat, given his own treatment of dissidents.
• Armenia, led by Prime Minister Nikol Pashinyan, is in an increasingly precarious position, geographically and geopolitically isolated, and burned by Russia’s previous inaction during the Nagorno-Karabakh crisis.

Notable Quotes:

• Stephen Diehl (on Putin’s posture):

  “Putin is on a war footing and he set the whole economy in Russia on a war footing and he’s not going to stop the war in Ukraine … And he’s on such a war footing that he’s decided that if not attack is the best form of defence, then verbal attack is certainly the best form of defence.” (05:20)

• Patricia Cohen (on Pashinyan’s response):

  “I would interpret that as a ‘mind your own business’. But I’m not going to make any commitments now … that seems a way to kind of commit to nothing and say nothing and not make a decision.” (07:48)

Timestamps:

• 04:27 – Context and Putin’s remarks
• 05:20 – Diehl on Russian threats and strategy
• 07:26 – Pashinyan’s diplomatic tightrope
• 09:11 – Armenia’s lack of leverage, historic betrayals
• 11:12 – Putin’s purported concern for Armenian opposition politicians

Insights:

• Russia uses both overt threats and psychological tactics to dissuade its neighbors from drifting westward.
• Armenia, having been let down by the CSTO (Russia’s “NATO analogue”), weighs its limited options knowing it has few reliable friends.
• Putin’s talk of democracy in Armenia is deeply ironic, possibly intentionally so.

---

2. Lebanon: UNESCO Heritage Protections Amid Conflict

(Starts at 12:08)

Summary:

• UNESCO grants enhanced protection to 39 Lebanese heritage sites, aiming to shield them from military use and targeting.
• Skepticism abounds over whether any parties in conflict—IDF or Hezbollah—will care about these designations.
• The gesture may have symbolic, not practical, impact and raises questions about the targeting of cultural heritage in warfare.

Notable Quotes:

• Stephen Diehl:

  “When the Russians hit these things, it’s not stray missiles or stray drones … They are targeted … They are trying to wipe out Ukrainian culture.” (14:17)

• Patricia Cohen:

  “What is the only tool that [UNESCO] really have is appealing to public moral outrage … I’m glad that they said something as opposed to not saying something at all.” (15:43)

• Diehl, on Trump’s rhetoric:

  “I was horrified to hear from Trump’s speech last night … when he said that they’re going to bomb Iran back to the Stone Age, where these people belong. Excuse me.” (16:20)

Timestamps:

• 12:08 – UNESCO designations explained
• 13:00 – Will Israel or Hezbollah observe limits?
• 14:17 – Parallels in Ukraine; deliberate targeting
• 15:15 – The limits of moral appeals

Insights:

• Destruction of heritage is often deliberate—an attempt to obliterate cultural identity.
• Global outrage over such destruction may, perversely, be stronger than over loss of life.
• UNESCO’s real power is moral pressure, not enforcement.

---

3. India: Census and the Return of Caste Questions

(16:59–22:43)

Summary:

• India launches a massive census, deploying 3 million enumerators to survey 1.4 billion people over a year.
• This year, for the first time since 1951, questions about caste return—fanning debate about social stratification, policy, and representation.
• Census data can inflame divisions but are also required to address historic inequalities.

Notable Quotes:

• Patricia Cohen:

  “It’s one of those things that has really major implications … these supposed fact based census surveys have incredible political uses…” (18:01)

• Diehl:

  “Bringing back the caste question might actually suggest that in this modern world … maybe they do intend to do something about it … but that’s being very naive about Indian politics, too, I think.” (20:55)

Timestamps:

• 16:59 – The scale of the Indian census
• 18:01 – Why census data (on caste/race) matters
• 19:50 – Caste: recording vs. erasing social division
• 21:58 – Parallels with class in UK census

Insights:

• Census categories are always political; how one is counted determines access to services and representation.
• Asking about caste risks reinforcing it yet also provides data to remedy discrimination.

---

4. Japan: The Modernization of School Uniforms

(22:43–28:54)

Summary:

• Japanese (and global) school uniforms are adapting, becoming more practical, less rigid, and more gender-neutral in line with broader social trends.
• The function of uniforms—erasing class differences vs. stifling individuality—is debated.
• Students and adults alike find ways to customize even the most standardized attire, making “uniforms” less uniform.

Notable Quotes:

• Patricia Cohen:

  “Kids being kids or grownups being grownups, everyone will seek in their own way to put their own stamp on whatever the uniform is.” (22:43)

• Stephen Diehl (on uniforms as a social leveler):

  “Generally, yes, I do think they do. ... What I also think is a good idea ...is the introduction of polo shirts, sweatshirts in the winter ... Practical wear, practical clothing is...far more sensible.” (27:44)

Timestamps:

• 22:43 – The shifting trend in Japanese (and international) school uniforms
• 23:39 – Gender neutrality in new uniform designs
• 25:52 – Anecdotes on rebelliousness and conformity
• 27:44 – Uniforms as inclusion (but with caveats about targeted theft/bullying)
• 28:54 – The subtle pride and community of uniforms

Insights:

• Uniforms, even in contemporary contexts, serve both to equalize and unify, but users continually negotiate and subvert their meaning.

---

5. Letter from Iran: Voices Amidst War

(28:54–38:15)

Summary:

• Kurdish-Iranian journalist Gordian Benyamin Jermay presents firsthand remarks from Iranians living through the war, highlighting both the chaos of military conflict and the everyday anxieties around shortages, displacement, and digital repression.
• Stories span from civilians who refuse to flee, fearing street fighting, to soldiers who have deserted, to families terrified for relatives in notorious prisons, to citizens cut off from the outside world by intentional internet blackouts.

Notable Quotes:

• Karwan (civilian):

  “I’m not afraid of American attacks. I’m afraid of the peshmerga returning without a plan ... My identity is here. A stone is stronger in its place.” (30:45)

• Alan (soldier who deserted):

  “We will not go back to that military base again, even if they force us to.” (31:35)

• Bahar (family of political prisoner):

  “They had evacuated the prison and told us to go away. Your children and the other prisoners are not here, they said. It seemed like they had evacuated last night and it is not clear where they were taken to.” (33:04)

• Reben (living near Turkish-Iranian border):

  “We know the shortage of medicine is slowly being felt ... There’s going to be a civil war between Azeri Turks and Kurds. ... I see that the level of fear and panic is increasing.” (34:40)

• Cpan (on the internet blackout):

  “Iran’s internet has been down for more than 500 hours. ... We need the help of the whole world here in this big prison. Don’t forget us.” (37:32)

Timestamps:

• 28:54 – Introduction by Gordian Benyamin Jermay
• 30:45 – Civilian on dread of internal conflict
• 31:35 – Soldiers desert as bases are destroyed
• 33:04 – Dread and confusion about evacuated political prisoners
• 34:40 – Threats of ethnic conflict and shortages
• 36:08 – The pain of internet shutdown, social isolation
• 37:32 – Life under siege, desperate appeal for world attention

Insights:

• War’s toll is as much psychological and social as material: disruption of identity, community, and even the ability to communicate with loved ones.
• Digital repression is a key tool for controlling public perception and information inside Iran.
• Global attention often misses the civilian and grassroots impact—these voices fill that gap.

---

Memorable Moments

• Andrew Muller’s dry wit, e.g., on Putin’s threats—"the readout does not specify whether at this time Pashinyan was being dangled out of a Kremlin window by his ankles." (04:27)
• Personal anecdotes from the panel, humanizing wider debates (e.g., Stephen Diehl’s account of customizing his army uniform and schoolboy cap confusion; Patricia Cohen on following her son’s football career).

---

Structure Guide/Timestamps

• 00:00–04:27 – Casual beginnings, host/guest catch-up (skip for main content)
• 04:27–12:08 – Armenia, Russia, and Putin’s threats
• 12:08–16:59 – Lebanon and the use/limits of UNESCO protections
• 16:59–22:43 – India’s census, caste, and the politics of counting
• 22:43–28:54 – School uniforms: fashion, culture, and rebellion
• 28:54–38:15 – Voices from inside Iran: war’s civilian cost

---

Conclusion

This episode gives listeners a panoramic yet intimate view of geopolitical tensions (especially in the Russia-Armenia context), the persistent relevance of culture and identity in conflict, and the ways individuals adapt to, and resist, the pressures of their political environments. The episode stands out for its blending of on-the-ground reporting, expert analysis, personal stories, and a touch of humor—all while keeping global listeners informed of the deeper stakes at play behind the headlines.

Transcript

[A]

You're listening to the Monocle Daily, first broadcast on 2nd April, 2026 on Monocle Radio.

[B]

Is Vladimir Putin picking his next target, the international body which is willing to help Lebanon? And when does a school uniform stop being a school uniform? I'm Andrew Muller. The Monocle Daily starts now. Hello and welcome to the Monoc. Welcome to the Monocle Daily. Coming to you from our studios here at Midori House in London. I'm Andrew Muller. My guest Patty Cohen and Stephen DL will discuss the day's big stories and our weekly letter from is, after a fashion, from Iran. Stay tuned. All that and more coming up right here on the Monocle Daily. This is the Monocle Daily. I'm Andrew Muller and I am joined today by Patty Cohen, global economics Code correspondent at the New York Times, and by Stephen Dall, Russia analyst and regular Monocle Radio contributor. Hello to you both. Hello, Patty. First of all, you have recently, not unreasonably for a employee of the New York Times, been in New York City. How was it?

[C]

It was good. And not only that, you know, I am a native New Yorker. I'm there. So it was a good opportunity to kind of catch up with a lot of friends and family and watch my son's opening game. He's a professional soccer football player, as you have mentioned.

[B]

How did it go?

[C]

It was tie.

[B]

Okay. Or a draw, as we.

[C]

A draw. Yes. Yes. So, you know, it could have been better, but it could have been worse.

[B]

Well, that's basically the deal with draws. Do remind our listeners if they would care to follow his progress, which is the team.

[C]

It's a new expansion team, Sarasota Paradise.

[B]

Sarasota Paradise.

[C]

Yes, in Sarasota, Florida. And we did get to go to the beach while we were there, so.

[B]

Okay. Well, I will, in recognition of his accomplishments, suspend my usual objections to sports teams named after a singular rather than a plural.

[C]

I agree with you. I do agree with you on that, but in this case, too, I have to.

[B]

Yeah, and obviously the Paradisers would be unwieldy. Is there a seamless link between where Patty's just been and where Steven has just been? What? Paradise. Sports. Sport. Yeah, it's sport. Two sports that start with S. Soccer and skiing. You've been to Andorra, Stephen, which I am actually weirdly jealous of, because it is one of two countries on the European continent, the other being Belarus, I have not yet visited.

[D]

Well, I suggest you go, and I suggest you go next winter and go skiing if you'd like to. It has wonderful wide slopes, suits Me very well. A variety of colours, not too many blacks, which also suits me very well. And very, very good infrastruct. And my wife and I had a wonderful week, except we had to cut it a day short because of snow. Because of too much snow.

[B]

You had to cut the skiing trip short because there was too much snow?

[D]

That's right. Because the day we were due to leave that, all week they've been saying there was this huge storm coming in and lo, the huge storm came in and where we were staying, in a place called El Tarter, it snowed overnight, but the roads were clear and we went. Actually, it's not the right way to go into Spain. We headed south to get into Spain. It's actually quicker if you want to go to somewhere, somewhere in Catalonia, to go out through France and you come around. That's the way we went in. But the following day, when we would have left, the route to France was completely cut off for some hours, even though they have, of course, snowplows and they've got the equipment. But we got out and as a change, for the last day, we went to see the Dali Museum in Figueres, which I'm sure you have been to.

[B]

No, I haven't. What goes on in Figueres?

[D]

The Dali museum. That's about it. Figueres played a very important role in the Spanish Civil War, particularly towards the end of 1939, and it was the last post for exiles fleeing to France. Unfortunately, therefore, it got bombed, particularly by the German and Italian air forces. So there's not a lot of old figures left. And the theatre was bombed out. And Dali asked if he could make it into his own museum. And indeed, he's buried within a weird place. I have to say. Many of my favourite works of Dali's are not there. But it was worth a visit.

[B]

Well, we will start with Armenia, latest lucky target of the Vladimir Putin approach to winning friends and influencing people. Almost as if it's any of his business, Putin has inveighed gravely at his recent guest, Armenian Prime Minister Nikol Pashinyan, vis a vis any funny ideas Armenia may be nurturing about a closer relationship with, Perchance, even membership of the European Union. Putin made clear that it would be impossible for Armenia to be part of a customs union with both the EU and the Russian dominated sort of equivalent, the Eurasian Economic Union. The readout does not specify whether at this time Pashinyan was being dangled out of a Kremlin window by his ankles. Putin was also touchingly solicitous about the rights of opposition parties in Armenia, Steve. An extremely thinly veiled threat, I think we can call that. But how serious was it? Or at least how seriously should Armenia be taking it?

[D]

Oh, Armenia should take it very seriously. Putin is on a war footing and he set the whole economy in Russia on a war footing and he's not going to stop the war in Ukraine until at least he can have something, even if he must get those four regions of eastern Ukraine plus Crimea and be able to, because they're in the Russian constitution now. Any withdrawal, not taking those with him, he means he would lose face and probably his head with it, literally. And he's on such a war footing that he's decided that if not attack is the best form of defence, then verbal attack is certainly the best form of defence. We've seen recently verbal attacks against Estonia. Narva, just across the border from Russia, has a predominantly Russian speaking population. That of course, doesn't mean to say they're Russians, but they are Russian first language. And recently there has been the type of psychological warfare you could almost say that was waged in the Donbass in 2014 after they'd seized Crimea. And then they started saying, oh, the people there are wanting us to go and liberate them. They've been doing exactly the same sort of thing with the people of Narva. The Estonians have seen this coming and have been rather resolute in rebuffing it. But nevertheless, it's out there. If you have the misfortune to watch Russian television debates late at night, they will launch into this and say, well, of course they're Russians, we ought to go and get them. So there's that. And this is all part of that particular jigsaw where Putin is out to frighten the neighbors, particularly those that used to belong to the Soviet Union. And this is a very good example of it and the way in which it's couched. You can't belong to these two unions and it's up to you if you want to join the eu, but don't is the subtext. And Nicole Pashinyan will have gone back to Armenia with concerns.

[B]

Nicole Pashinyan did say, Patty, and I quote, as long as it is possible to combine these agendas, we will continue to do so. When the processes develop to the point where a decision must be made, I am confident that we, the citizens of the Republic of Armenia, will take that decision. Is that as close as he dares get to saying, mind your own business?

[C]

Sure. I would interpret that as a Mind your own business. But I'm not going to make any commitments now. I mean, Stephen, you're probably a better reader of leader political speak, but that seems a way to kind of commit to nothing and say nothing and not make a decision, you know, that you could read it either way to his own constituency, of course, saying we're going to make our own decisions, but also in no way necessarily rejecting Putin's offer.

[B]

Armenia, obviously, Stephen, has limited leverage in any kind of dealing with Russia, but Armenia does not really have also any reason, well, possibly even less than anybody else, to trust Russia. This is, of course, we are talking not long after the ctso, the sort of Russia dominated, sort of NATO analogue, did basically nothing about Nagorno Karabakh, the Armenian enclave within Azerbaijan, which was cleaned out a couple of years ago. Armenia suspended its membership of the CTSO as a consequence. Whichever way around, opinions vary, but does Armenia have any leverage here because it is geographically somewhat isolated.

[D]

It is isolated and unlike its neighbour Azerbaijan, which of course had a lot of support from Turkey and it's a Turkic language and they are very close to each other. Armenia is a little Christian country with a long history, but in a very vulnerable position and that is a worry for Armenia. I think, though, what Pashinyan is trying to do also is point out the fact that not only did this, you got me going now, csto, they didn't come to their defence at all. But there's also this. He's trying to point out that Putin has not been very good to his friends in Venezuela, in Iran, in Syria before, that these are supposed allies of Russia, that when push has come to shove and their leaders have been shoved, shall we say, Putin has done nothing to stand up for them. You know, Iran has been providing thousands of drones for Russia. Russia is now on patent, making many of its own. But when I was making a bet, I think with the producer, who was going to be the first person to mention the American president, I won't mention his name, but when the American President attacked Iran, Putin didn't come to his aid, apart from giving some intelligence on where the American bases are in the Middle East. But Putin has not stood up for his friends. And I think that's what Pashinyan is aware of and is saying, well, you know, the CSTO didn't do anything for us, so why should we? They've suspended their membership, they haven't left it yet, indeed the membership. So I think that's about as good as he can get. He can't really look for, look around and find any reliable allies. You know, Ukraine is finding it difficult enough to get Europe to support it. Armenia is significantly further away and it doesn't have friendly neighbors on its border.

[B]

One group of people, Patty, just finally on this, that Putin is speaking up for opposition politicians in Armenia. And of course nobody is more concerned about the rights of opposition politicians than Vladimir Putin. He must presumably have some idea of how absurd this sounds when he sort of frets in public about democratic standards elsewhere. Is he possibly just trying to be funny?

[C]

Well, as I understand it, the opposition politician in particular he's talking about is a kind of someone who has a lot of sympathy for Russia.

[B]

This is Sunvel Karapeti.

[C]

That's right, something of an oligarch and who is a likely challenger in the next election. So one can understand why Putin in this particular instance might make an exception to his rule on opponents well to

[B]

Lebanon and a doubtless well intentioned but arguably somewhat chaotic attempt to protect its architectural heritage. UNESCO has granted provisional enhanced status to 39 cultural sites, which in theory confers legal protection against attack and prevents them from being commandeered for military purposes. Among them is the museum and cultural centre Bayit Beirut, which aficionados of bleak irony may note was a grand 1920s house repurposed during the Civil War of the 1980s as a sniper's nest by Christian militias and consequently shot to bits by their opponents. It may have been the building PJ o' Rourke was thinking of when he wrote at the time of Beirut that ruins of historical interest abound, in fact block most streets. Patti, do we imagine either the IDF or Hezbollah paying much attention to UNESCO?

[C]

I mean, you know, this has been an issue in conflict zones around the world. Supposedly UNESCO says that it has provided the coordinates to both Israel and the United States of these protected sites. And I'm presuming not only in Lebanon but in Iran as well, where the latest report I heard was that four sites had been bombed.

[B]

I'd be careful about who I was giving coordinates to at this point.

[C]

Right. But, you know, it's hard to see either leader putting concerns for cultural heritage above strategic ones. And we certainly haven't seen either of those powers take that into account previously.

[B]

Is it nevertheless, Stephen, a gesture worth making? Because possibly, weird and perverse though it is, there is something about the willful destruction of, I guess, what we might think of as all humankind's common heritage that does attract strangely more outrage than just launching shells at human beings. The obvious example being the Taliban's demolition of the Great Buddhas of Bamiyan occasioned farm more global outrage than anything they'd done to Afghan's actual people.

[D]

Yeah, I suppose. But I must admit, when I read it, and I thought, really, you know, what can they actually do to protect these sites? We saw only last week in Ukraine, in Lviv, a UNESCO site was hit by the Russians. And we know that when the Russians hit these things, it's not stray missiles or stray drones going, the modern weapons. They are targeted. And, you know, Russia has not only destroyed UNESCO sites and attacked UNESCO sites in Ukraine, but it's attacked a lot of cultural sites because they are trying to wipe out Ukrainian culture. They don't claim, they don't even recognize there is a separate Ukrainian culture. So I must admit, I did think it was rather sort of like waving a piece of paper and saying, you know, oh, you know, don't shoot me, don't fire here.

[B]

Well, I mean, that is about all UNESCO can do. It does not have a military wing.

[D]

No, indeed, indeed.

[B]

The Assistant Director General of UNESCO, Patti Lazare, Alundo Asomo, he's not wrong. He said, you know, cultural heritage must be protected. It is the backbone of people's identity, trust and hope, and it carries the promise of peace and recovery. Is that a good, I guess, definition of perhaps not just why it's important to protect these sites, but why, as Stephen points out, they're often targeted. It is an attempt to obliterate a culture.

[C]

Yes. And I think to your point, UNESCO does not have any armed forces. What is the only tool that they really have is appealing to public moral outrage. And so, I mean, I'm glad that they said something as opposed to not saying something at all and raised the issue. And I do think that at least it is something in the public's mind. And, you know, if only, whatever slight calculation it might have in being a deterrent, you know, I mean, that's helpful.

[D]

But also, I'd say, I mean, that whole, the whole region, not just Lebanon, but the Middle east, you know, is a cradle. I won't say it's the cradle of civilization, but it's certainly a cradle of civilization. And going off slightly tangentially, but I was horrified to hear from Trump's speech last night, you know, when he said that they're going to bomb Iran back to the Stone Age, where these people belong. Excuse me. I mean, they have, you know, they have an ancient culture, they have valuable sites, they have a wonderful language. I mean, that just showed, again, Trump's lack of knowledge, lack of culture and Lack of humanity.

[B]

Well, to India. And if you feel as if your place of work has recently compelled you to a task which is monumentally, if not overwhelmingly complicated, excruciatingly detailed and logistically bewildering, spare a thought for the people tasked with conducting India's cens. They have in their favour that there are a lot of them. Fully 3 million census takers will spend the next year undertaking the awesome task of surveying and cataloguing 1.4 billion people who speak at least 121 languages, identify with around 2,000 ethnic groups, adhere to roughly half a dozen major religions and who knows how many minor ones, and are spread across Earth's seven biggest country by area, a realm of mountains, deserts, forests and megacities. Patti, does anything about that tempt you to write off for the job?

[C]

I can't. I do admit it sounds daunting. And I, and I. And as I understand it, they've going to employ 30 million people.

[B]

Three million.

[C]

Oh, three million. Okay.

[B]

It's still a lot.

[C]

It's still a lot. It's still a lot. Okay, yes, but the zero does make a difference. But you know, the thing that struck me about this, on the one hand, you know, it's tempting to kind of write this off as a very kind of statistical, data driven story that's, you know, a lot of effort about details. But in fact, it's one of those things that has really major implications and that you can see controversies over how to categorize people. In fact, it's a similar issue in the United States. In just December, the Trump administration talked about wanting to change the categories on the racial and ethnic questions for the 2030 census. And what's the reason for that? It's because actually these supposed fact based census surveys have incredible political uses, whether in terms of districting for representation and also in terms of allocation of social welfare programs, as well as kind of tracking progress in poverty across various racial and ethnic categories. And that's the reason why it is so controversial in India, I think, because this question of caste, which is something that they have not asked on the census in decades, and to people who think it's important, they say it's a good way to track how various impoverished people or people who've been discriminated against in the past are doing, while on the other side, well, you know, you're kind of institutionalizing these distinctions that we in fact want to erase.

[B]

I mean, that is the key thing about this census, Stephen, that for the first time since 1951, they will be asking Questions about caste, which is an infernally complicated system of social stratification in India, which I do not pretend to understand, but they stopped asking questions all those decades ago about caste for fear that it inflamed social divisions. Now people are complaining that actually not asking questions about caste, rather just papers over those social divisions. So I guess the not at all complicated question I'm putting to you, Stephen, is as at what point a census becoming too intrusive?

[D]

Not at all complicated. No, you're absolutely right. I mean, the whole. I thought the way you introduced the whole thing, I mean, you know, the size of the country, the, you know, the recent.

[B]

Anything about organizing anything in India blows my mind. I could read and have done enormous deep dives on the logistics of organizing elections in India. Speaking of somebody who loses interest trying to organize four people to have lunch. It is astonishing.

[D]

It is. And maybe I'm being naive and overly optimistic, but I think that bringing back the cast question might actually suggest that in this modern world, and I know that there are different versions of it around the world, but actually it may well do something to. To change that system. I know it's centuries old and people hark about tradition and so on, but to, certainly to me, and I think many people here would think it's appalling that you can have something where you're born and you've got no way of getting out of it. Whereas at least if they know who's in these various levels of society, which they haven't known, as you said, for over 70 years, maybe they do intend to do something about it. But then that's being very naive about Indian politics, too, I think.

[B]

Just a final quick one on this, Stephen. Would this be opening a comparable can of worms if they ask questions about class on the British census?

[D]

Not quite such a big can of worms, but that would be one. It would. It would, I think, elicit a lot of, ooh, I'm not sures.

[B]

Well, to Japan and to the imminent return to school of Japanese school kids, many of whom will be wearing, as might be expected, school uniforms. However, it says here that the trend is towards more practical, adaptable and individual, which would appear to at least partially defeat the point of uniforms. Kids today apparently desire means to express themselves at least somewhat within the confines of a dress code. Patty, where are you on this? Where are Americans generally on this? Between make all the little sods wear a collar and tie, and at one end of the spectrum and let them wear what they like at the other.

[C]

I don't Know, I feel like I've been, you know, I've heard this debate going back for decades for whether the question of, you know, are you helping erase class differences and income differences by forcing everyone to wear the same thing, or are you stamping out every child's individuality? And I don't think there's one answer or another. I mean, kids being kids or grownups being grown ups, everyone will seek in their own way to put their own stamp on whatever the uniform is. You know, they'll find some way to do it, whether it's, you know, turning up the knee socks or whatever. One of the trends I did see, which not surprisingly mirrors larger fashion trends, are uniforms that can be worn by either gender as a way to.

[B]

That is also becoming a thing in Japan, apparently.

[C]

Exactly. And everywhere, you know, where you're kind of eliminating gender distinctions in clothing and you can probably see that all over and it's obviously following social trends. So uniforms do uniform, just like everything else, follow fashion.

[B]

Stephen, were you ever compelled into a crested blazer, a tie and a straw boater?

[D]

Not the straw boater, but the rest? Yeah. Oh, definitely no, but. And caps. And we had the school cap, peaked cap. And I remember my very first day in the junior school, my mother had been Miss Sold the caps. They were the senior school caps, which had a particular stripe on them. And so my mother had gone back to the shop and my brother and I were waiting outside the school and a prefect came up to us and where are your caps? And this was our first day in school and I think we were seven and nine. It was all a bit frightening. But broadening the uniform question, some years ago I did a short service career in the army and one way that you could tell officers apart was when they were wearing civilian clothes, because then they were not a part. They all looked like army officers when they were wearing civilian clothes. But when they were wearing their uniform, everyone tried to have. Do something a little bit different so that they would actually stand out somehow. I remember my little kick against the pricks, as the slogan goes, was to go. I was based out in Germany and I had a trip down to southern Germany and went to the American px, the shop for the American soldiers who were there, and bought a couple of combat shirts because the ones that we had were really uncomfortable and they were itching somewhere, as the American ones were much better. And I sort of sat up late at night stitching epaulettes back onto the shoulders so that I could wear thought, ha, well, I'll stand out and no one said a thing to me on an exercise the next week, and no one said a thing. At least I felt a bit more comfortable, but that's. That. That was everyone always, when they're in uniform, tried to have something just a little bit different. Whereas out of uniform, red trousers, Labrador dog, they're pretty standard.

[B]

Yeah. I went to a lot of schools, Patty, some of which had stricter views on this than others. But it kind of goes a bit to what you were saying about where there is room to rebel, people will. I went to one high school in Australia where there was. There was uniform, which nobody paid any attention to at all. And we did have an excitable new deputy principal arrived who was going to impose some measure of discipline, so issued this edict, look, wear what you like, but it all has to be drawn from these colors. It was like gray, blue, black. Fairly sensible stuff.

[C]

So sounds like bridesmaids dresses or something.

[B]

But obviously, the next day, everybody turned up at school with vintage Hawaiian shirts on, and we never heard any more of that. Although at the same school, one of my classmates did correctly recognize that the most genuine expression of eccentric individualism available was to find out what the actual strict definition of the school uniform was and wear that every day, which he did. He was literally the only person in the school who wore the Mossman High School tie. It was, in fact, literally the Mossman High School tie.

[C]

Well, I would say anybody who has seen, on a weekend or after school, packs of girls going down the street, schoolgirls walking down the street, they're all wearing a uniform. They're all dressed almost exactly alike, whatever the style of the day is, the cut of the jeans, you know, the hang of the shirt, whatever the kind of shoes they're wearing. So, you know, whether you do it or not, there'll be uniforms out there.

[B]

But do you buy the idea, just finally on this, Stephen, that they are ultimately actually included because they don't allow rich kids to dress ostentatiously better than kids who are not rich. They do sort of remind everybody that we are part of a collective, possibly even a team, and that we are actually here to get something done.

[D]

Generally, yes, I do think they do. There's only one problem, which I've heard about living in North London, and there's one street where there are four schools on one street, one of which is, although there are state schools, it has entrance exams. So if you have their uniform, they know you, you're clever. And unfortunately, some of the other schools use that as a target. Phones get stolen and so on. But generally, yeah, I think it is a good idea. What I also think is a good idea in recent years, particularly in junior schools, is the introduction of polo shirts, sweatshirts in the winter, which would have been horrific in my day. Oh, Good Lord, no. Age 7 years old, we were wearing ties and lasers. Whereas that sort of practical wear, practical clothing is, I think it's far more sensible. But you know, you have the school badge on the, on the, on the shirt or on the sweatshirt, which gives that identity as well. So hopefully it doesn't act as a magnet for those with evil intention, but actually does bring a little bit of pride to children that they do belong to that community.

[B]

Stephen Dale and Paddy Cohen, thank you both for joining us. Finally on today's show, this week's Letter from is a series of voices from inside Iran collected since the war began by Gordian Benjamin Jeremiah, a Kurdish Iranian journalist based in Germany who you will hear throughout this piece describing his own experiences and the views of the people he's spoken to. The Iranian voices themselves were recorded by Monocle's own staffers, as no one inside Iran is comfortable speaking on record or even having their voices used for fear of reprisals from the Iranian regime. Regime.

[E]

My name is Gordian Benyamin Jermay. I'm a Kurdish human rights activist and journalist from East Kurdistan, or known as the Iranian Kurdistan. I basically left in January 2024 and before that I was working with several organizations at the same time. I was also collecting information and writing analysis and articles about what's happening there. And I was also doing a lot of fundraisings and community work, but definitely not under my name, another name or other names. Since the day the war started, I was just checking the news. I was talking to people, all the international media, everyone was talking about the military scale of these operations. And so I thought that maybe it's important to collect these comments, these voices to also reflect another side of this war or this story that is being ignored. So that's why I tried to collect anything that I could get from the people inside.

[D]

My nickname is Karwan from Bukan. On March 6, I told my son who resides in Germany that it is young people who are afraid. I personally am not afraid of American attacks. I'm afraid of the peshmerga returning without a plan. If the IRGC is not completely destroyed in this area and the peshmerga come, there'll be street fighting and many people will die. I'm not ready to leave my homeland and My home, my identity is here. A stone is stronger in its place.

[E]

As he said that he, he wants to stay, he is somehow connected to his homeland. But at the same time I also hear other people saying that we want to leave because it's war. It's almost impossible because all the surrounding countries are also involved and they cannot take refugees.

[F]

My nickname is Alan. On the 1st of March, we were in our sleeping quarters at our military base near Tabriz when we suddenly heard a massive explosion. It was about 500 metres away from us. We all got out to see what happened. We were all freaked out. Then we saw that both our command and headquarters were completely destroyed. We didn't hesitate. We just grabbed our backpacks and left the facility. Then I waited on the road and a truck driver was kind enough to take me with him to my home city of Omea. The military organization has told us that we can only stay home for a a few more days. But we will not go back to that military base again, even if they force us to. I talked to the people in our community and I found out that two other young men I know who were doing their mandatory military service in Kermanshah and Sanandaj also left and came back home. But I know that many other soldiers are forced to stay in military bases and they're not letting them leave. I'm really worried about my friends.

[E]

In the Iranian system, every man who is above of 18 years old must serve in the army unless they have some medical conditions. Just like me. I, I was exempt. I was lucky. Anyone who, who, who gets over that age, they have to serve in the army. Basically, if you cannot, if you don't serve in the army, you will not get a passport, you cannot open a business. You will have so many restrictions that you finally have to serve in the army.

[A]

My name is Bahar and I live in Tehran. My brother Parsa is in even prison. They have pummeled Tehran. Two nights ago on March 4, there was a rumor that even prison was hit. My brother Parsa's mother called this morning and said they went to Aveen yesterday. They had evacuated the prison and told us to go away. Your children and the other prisoners are not here, they said. It seemed like they had evacuated last night and it is not clear where they were taken to. They're really pummeling Tehran. I think we're fine, but please be the voice of the people in the prisons.

[E]

Unfortunately, I couldn't talk to Bahar anymore because she completely cut off. But besides what she told me about the conditions in prisons. We had a lot of news that many prisoners were relocated to different places, and we suspected that they were probably being used as human shields. But regarding what Trump claims or claimed, I think it's reached to a level now as we speak. Everybody's confused. Nobody really understand what is he doing or what. What he wants to do or what are his goals and objectives of this war. And there is somehow a form of sympathy rising among some Iranians, not exactly for the regime, but for protecting their country from being invaded and destroyed.

[G]

My nickname is Reben, and I live near the Turkish Iranian border. It's March 7, and people are closely watching what Trump is saying on the news. People are stressed and scared about how their security and safety can be guaranteed. They are panicking. The queues in front of bakeries are becoming longer. We know the shortage of medicine is slowly being felt. It's hard to find some specific types of medicine. Now. The Kurdish people in our region are also scared that there's going to be a civil war between Azeri Turks and Kurds. Azeri Turkish will probably get support from Turkey, but we don't know how Kurds will be able to face this. I see that the level of fear and panic is increasing. And this is very concerning the region

[E]

that I come from on the Turkish border, if I want to say there is the Kurdish people and the Azeri Turkish people living there, and they've had decades of conflicts also together and mostly ignited by the Iranian regime and also supported by the Azerbaijani and the Turkish governments as well. So there is this fear that if this war escalates more, Turkey might also ignite another war between the Turks and the Kurds in that region, which could lead to bloodshed and more civil wars in the region.

[C]

Region.

[A]

My nickname is Daria. I'm from Tehran.

[D]

I've lost all sense of time with this bloody Internet shutdown.

[A]

VPN apps like Reality Hysteria, Trojan and

[D]

CDN are all down.

[A]

I'm blindfolded.

[D]

I have no sense of scale. Can you tell me how severe this war is compared to Ukraine or Syria, minus the ground invasion part? Well, the weather's quite tremendous, at least.

[E]

Access to the Internet is really hard in Iran. It has always been hard. And whenever something happens, the first thing that the regime does is to cut the Internet lines. But it was not as intense as now. There were VPNs that were working. There were some limited hours that you could still connect to the Internet. Internet. But in early January this year, when they committed that massacre and they cut down the entire Internet lines for days. So it's. It's really hard. And for me and the people that I work with, the only thing that we do is that we try to get whatever we can. And at the same time, we try to. To get updates from our families at least once a week to just know that they are alive.

[H]

My nickname is Cpan. I live in Urmia. It is March 21, and Iran's Internet has been down for more than 500 hours. We hear the sound of fighter jets almost every day. The atmosphere in all the streets is very insecure and dangerous. We are all scared, but we are also trying to live like life is going on at a normal pace. It costs a lot to connect to the international Internet and I cannot afford it anymore because my little store is also closed and I have to save my money for essential needs. We need the help of the whole world here in this big prison. Don't forget us.

[B]

And that's all for this edition of the Monocle Daily. Thanks to our panelists today, Patricia Cohen and Steven Diehl. Today's show was produced by Tom Webb and researched by Anneliese Maynard. Our sound engineer was Steph Ch Shangu. I'm Andrew Muller here in London. The Daily is back at the same time tomorrow. Thanks for listening. It.