Why the world increasingly considers the US a threat. Plus: Politics versus sport at the Olympics

Summary

Podcast Summary: The Monocle Daily

Episode Title: Why the world increasingly considers the US a threat. Plus: Politics versus sport at the Olympics
Date: February 12, 2026
Host: Georgina Godwin
Guests: Tira Schubart (Fellow of the Royal Astronomical Society, Ambassador for the Science Museum), Jonathan Fenby (journalist, author, former editor of the South China Morning Post)
Special Segment: Interview with Yanis X Haros, CEO of the Olympic Broadcasting Service

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Overview

This episode of The Monocle Daily examines why global trust in the United States as a reliable partner is eroding—especially in Europe—amid rising international tensions and the second Trump administration. The panel also explores the complexities of politics at the 2026 Winter Olympics, scrutinizing the ban on a Ukrainian athlete's memorial gesture, and considers how political leaders are using new media channels, such as podcasts, to reach voters.
The episode closes with an insider’s look into the behind-the-scenes operations of Olympic broadcasting.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Europe’s Strategic Reassessment & the Waning Trust in the US

(03:02–10:38)

• Backdrop: Ahead of the Munich Security Conference, new polling reveals a rise in Europeans—and citizens of emerging economies—who see the US as a “threat” to their countries’ security.

• EU’s Fragmented Position:

  • Fenby: Points out the lack of European unity, especially when facing challenges from the US, China, and Russia.
  • “What Trump has done… is he's faced Europe with a basic problem… it is not united enough to play the role it wants to play in global affairs, particularly vis a vis the United States and China.” (04:24, Jonathan Fenby)
  • Schubart: Notes Macron has set a tone by warning against “threats and intimidation from Washington as well as from Russia.” (05:37)
  • Concern in the Baltics remains high due to increasing aggression from both Russia (hybrid threats) and the US (diplomatic pressure).

• China’s Strategic Advantage:

  • Fenby: China exploits European disunity, advancing its economic interests and using “cherry-picking” tactics (06:34).
  • Schubart: Europe’s efforts to reduce dependency on China are hindered by reliance on China’s control of rare earth processing—critical for the green transition (07:38).

• Polling:

  • Schubart: Recent polls show major European powers, especially France and Germany, now deem the US “unreliable,” a stark shift in attitudes (09:21).

• Rise of Inward-Looking Politics:

  • Fenby: Predicts the strengthening of nationalistic parties in Europe will make deeper EU cooperation and market enlargement doubtful (10:08).

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2. Diplomacy Stalemates: US, Iran, and Middle East Tensions

(10:38–15:47)

• State of US-Israel-Iran Dialogues:

  • Godwin: Trump’s latest talks with Netanyahu yield no public commitments; unusually, the meeting was kept low-profile (10:38).
  • Fenby: Predicts little chance of a substantive deal with Iran, as Trump demands terms (potentially even regime change) that remain unacceptable to Tehran (11:28).
  • Schubart: Structured backdoor negotiations with Qatar and Oman suggest possible room for compromise, but much is “happening behind the scenes” (12:08).

• Regional Calculations:

  • Schubart: Highlights the destabilizing influence of Iran’s non-state allies (e.g., in Yemen, Iraq) and how their disruptive capacity—asymmetric “negative power”—remains a serious threat to regional and energy security (14:59).

• Energy Risks:

  • Fenby: Emphasizes the risk that any escalation will hit the EU particularly hard through energy price shocks (15:47).
  • Schubart: Real “shock” to global markets would come if energy infrastructure or chokepoints are hit, but recommends being “concerned but not necessarily worried” (14:43).

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3. Politics and Protest at the Winter Olympics

(16:15–21:11)

• The Disqualification Incident:

  • Ukrainian skeleton racer Vladislav Heraskevich is disqualified for refusing to remove a helmet honoring fallen Ukrainians (16:15).
  • Schubart: Notes athlete solidarity and general horror at the decision—emphasizes this was “a memorial, not a political slogan” (17:01).
  • Fenby: Calls the ban “a political decision,” observing double standards in Olympic symbolism (17:36).

• Olympic Rules on Expression:

  • Godwin & Fenby: Debate whether Olympic guidelines on political symbols are sufficiently clear (17:54).
  • Schubart: Links to IOC President Kirsty Coventry’s controversial political past in Zimbabwe, questions the decision-making process and motives (18:36).

• The Role of the Olympics as a Platform:

  • Schubart: “Maybe people would learn more about those 130 other conflicts [if athletes protested], but ever since…1968…there have been political demonstrations at the Olympics” (19:49).
  • Fenby: “It’s bound to be a platform for remembrance or political statements.” (20:19)

• Cultural Parallels:

  • Godwin: Observes that politics pervades most major public events, citing recent Grammy and Super Bowl moments (20:24-20:52).

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4. Politicians, Podcasts, and the Quest for Direct Voter Engagement

(21:11–28:49)

• Sweden’s PM Launches a Call-in Podcast:

  • Godwin: Premier Ulf Kristersen starts “Ring Stutzministern” as a voter-outreach effort ahead of Swedish elections (21:11, 22:50).
  • Fenby: Skeptical, calling it “pretty dire”—suggests such shows rarely yield real connections and can highlight politicians’ communication shortcomings (23:14, 25:01).
  • Schubart: Notes most politicians lack the spontaneity and charm needed; Obama and Boris Johnson are rare exceptions (23:58, 24:49).

• Lessons from Other Contexts:

  • Schubart: Attempts to copy this in African contexts failed due to cultural norms and lack of authenticity—“they had just relegated the answering back to some aide” (26:19).
  • Fenby: French attempts at open dialogue “were so wooden that they wouldn’t have convinced anyone” (25:01).

• Vox Pops and the Dilemma of Public Forums:

  • Godwin & Fenby: Share their skepticism of unscripted public input, noting the fillers and lack of true representation (27:01–27:56).
  • Discussion closes with the consensus that not everyone is suited to the podcast format; authenticity and skill are crucial (28:06).

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5. Behind the Scenes: Broadcasting the Olympic Games

(29:20–35:35) Interview: Ed Stocker with Yanis X Haros, CEO of Olympic Broadcasting Service

• Scope and Complexity:

  • Haros oversees production of approximately 6,500 hours of Olympic coverage per Games, facilitating coverage for over 100 rights holders globally (30:43).
  • “Here we will produce something like 6,500 hours of broadcast, even though total competition time is around 1,000 hours.” (31:52, Yanis X Haros)
  • Coverage is adapted for various platforms—TV, digital, social—to match evolving consumption habits (32:47).

• Unifying Impact and Audience:

  • Olympics provide a rare “unifying force,” with 5 billion people watching in Paris 2024, “89% of the human population…with access to television or internet connection” (32:50–33:36).
  • More than half the Olympic audience are “casual fans,” drawn in by the cultural and unifying aspects, not just sports (34:01, Haros).

• Challenges and Opportunities:

  • Growing audience expectations and fragmented consumption habits make the job more demanding but also more rewarding (34:01–35:35).

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• “Unreliable is virtually all of them. All of the different polls say America is an unreliable ally. And the greatest number…are from France and from Germany. These are key partners that would have never said that in the past.”
  — Tira Schubart (09:21)

• “I think Beijing would see…sort of a great power arrangement…with Washington. But it sees Europe as a very promising marketplace, particularly for instance for electric vehicles.”
  — Jonathan Fenby (08:17)

• “It should have been allowed to go ahead, the wearing of the helmet. After all, the Russian flag is not displayed at the Olympics…”
  — Jonathan Fenby, on the Ukrainian athlete ban (17:36)

• “Maybe people would learn more about those 130 other conflicts. But ever since…1968…there have been political demonstrations of athletes in the Olympics.”
  — Tira Schubart (19:49)

• “It isn’t just the politicians, but I think it’s also the callers in who tend to go on for a long, long time, very boringly putting their point of view.”
  — Jonathan Fenby, on open radio/podcast formats (26:50)

• “The Olympics remain one of the large, great audience aggregators…a unifying force and no pressure.”
  — Yanis X Haros (32:47)

• “We live at times where unifying forces are fewer and fewer, and the Olympics is one of them, and we need them.”
  — Yanis X Haros (35:10)

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• EU, US, and China Relations: 03:02–10:38
• US-Israel-Iran Diplomacy & Energy Risks: 10:38–15:47
• Olympic Politics & Athlete Protest: 16:15–21:11
• Politicians’ Podcasts & Direct Engagement: 21:11–28:49
• Olympic Broadcasting Service—Interview with Yanis X Haros: 29:20–35:35

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Tone and Style

The discussion is sharp, witty, and sometimes irreverent, with panelists exchanging both heavyweight analysis and light-hearted banter. There’s a persistent undercurrent of skepticism toward both political showmanship and official narratives, balanced by moments of warmth—especially in the coverage of sports and public dialogue.

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For a deeper dive on European security anxieties, global diplomatic trends, and the cultural role of sport (and podcasting) in turbulent times, this episode of The Monocle Daily offers both keen insights and engaging conversation.

Transcript

[Tira Schubart]

You're listening to the Monocle Daily, first broadcast on 12 February 2026 on Monocle Radio.

[Georgina Godwin]

Today on the show, Europe takes stock of a changing world. Diplomacy with Iran drifts without resolution, politics collides with the Winter Olympics, and a Prime minister tries to win back voters with a podcast. I'm Georgina Godwin. The Monocle Daily starts. Hello, and welcome to the Monocle Daily, coming to you live from our studios here at Midori House in London. I'm Georgina Godwin. My guests, Tira Schubart and Jonathan Fenby will discuss the day's big stories, including an interesting poll that's been published ahead of the Munich Security Conference and an informal meeting between EU members underlying the uncertainty regarding within the block. Plus, we'll speak to the man behind the global coverage of the Winter Olympic Games. Stay tuned. All that and more coming up right here on the Monocle Daily. Welcome to the Monocle Daily. I'm joined today by Tiras Schubert, who's a fellow of the Royal Astronomical Society and ambassador for the Science Museum, and Jonathan Fenby, journalist, author and former editor of the South China Morning Post. Hello to you both. Hello, Jonathan. I understand you've been having a wild social time, trying out new restaurants, appearing on podcasts. Quite the man around the town.

[Jonathan Fenby]

Yes, indeed. I have been to a new restaurant, which was rather disappointing. I did a podcast, which everybody does these days.

[Georgina Godwin]

I know. We'll talk about that later.

[Jonathan Fenby]

And otherwise. And otherwise, I've been just hibernating because of the weather.

[Georgina Godwin]

Oh, it's absolutely vile, isn't it?

[Jonathan Fenby]

It is. It's whether to stay under the duvet.

[Georgina Godwin]

Yeah, well, you've been doing much more serious things. You've actually engaged in intellectual pursuits.

[Tira Schubart]

Well, I have, because I was forced indoors by the weather. And so I did go to a very interesting meeting at the Estonian Embassy about this Baltic security. And that was followed up the next night by the Institut Francais Night of Ideas, where they also talked about Baltic security. But other than that, I've been watching curling and the Olympics.

[Georgina Godwin]

Ah, curling. What exactly is curling?

[Tira Schubart]

Well, I don't know, but I find it very soothing. It's pushing those things across the ice and I don't quite understand it, but it seems to calm me down.

[Georgina Godwin]

Jonathan, do you want to say?

[Jonathan Fenby]

Well, it obviously has a particularly strong calming effect, because. No. When I'm out from under the duvet, I do go down to a cafe in the street under our flat and there's a whole group of us there, and one of the men in the Group said the other day, when the curling comes on, I turn off.

[Georgina Godwin]

Okay, not a fan then. Well, of course you're getting coverage of all of those Winter Olympic Games on Monocle in Milan. That happens live every day here on the station every weekday at 9am we've got a whole team there in Milan. And it's not just the sports. They're also talking to lots of people around the Games and talking to a lot of people in Milan about various businesses there. And a little bit later in the programme, we will hear from the team. But now, EU leaders have been meeting informally in Belgium today as debate around the bloc future intensifies. The European Union is under pressure from several directions at once. An increasingly antagonistic United States under Donald Trump, strong arm economic tactics from China and ongoing hybrid threats from Russia. Well, together those forces are pushing Europe to rethink how it approaches trade, diplomacy and security. At the same time, new polling carried out for the Munich Security Conference, which opens tomorrow, shows a surge in the number of people across Europe and major emerging economies who now see the United States as a threat to their country's security. Well, this underlines how quickly confidence in Washington has eroded during Trump's first year back in office. So, Jonathan, this Belgian meeting feels informal, but the timing feels urgent. What are the European leaders trying to get ahead of?

[Jonathan Fenby]

Well, what Trump has done, whatever you think of him, is he's faced Europe with a basic problem, which it has, which is that it is not united enough to play the role it wants to play in global affairs, particularly vis a vis the United States and China. And whether this meeting in Belgium can reach any greater unity, I'm rather doubtful.

[Georgina Godwin]

I wonder if Europe knows what the role it is it wants to play.

[Jonathan Fenby]

No, Europe wants to play, wants to be taken as one of the big players in the world. But the EU at any rate, is still made up of divergent countries which have divergent national interests and have always followed them.

[Georgina Godwin]

I mean, Tira, I wonder, particularly in light of the talks you've been to this week on security in Baltic Sea, how Europe navigates this triple threat, this threat from Russia, with hybrid warfare, including the cables, diplomacy and of course, security and the economics too.

[Tira Schubart]

Well, the tone was sort of set by what Macron said earlier in the week, which was talking about threats and intimidation from Washington as well as from Russia. So in one way, yes, I agree, Jonathan said, it is divergent countries. There's 27 different nations in the EU and much many more in Europe. But having focused by the aggression, the diplomatic aggression from Washington, but also threats, particularly to areas around the Baltics that have been coming up more and more in these meetings. And the Baltic nations keep this very much on the agenda and it's what is, what is concerning many, many diplomats and also NATO.

[Georgina Godwin]

I mean, Jonathan, if you're sitting in Beijing now, how does this moment in Europe look?

[Jonathan Fenby]

It looks pretty good, I must say, because you've had a group of, not a group, but a series of European leaders who've gone to China in recent months and weeks and will be going over the weeks to come. But they are very much talking while they speak about Europe, they're very much talking their national interest there. And so you have France and Germany and the United UK who are all pushing their own interests, while the EU finds it very difficult to reach a common stance vis a vis China. And in that context, it is very easy for Beijing to do as it has always done, to cherry pick between different European countries and I mean terror.

[Georgina Godwin]

Europe has talked for years about reducing dependency on China. But how achievable does that feel now?

[Tira Schubart]

Well, there is China controls, for example, one of the things that has come up again and again are the rare earth, the rare earth elements that China does have. They mine some of them, but they process nearly all of them. And that is what's needed for the green world. That's what's needed for the transition into green energy. So that's a very strong, that's a very strong bottleneck that China controls.

[Georgina Godwin]

And Jonathan, I wonder how Beijing benefits from this very apparent strain now between Europe and Washington.

[Jonathan Fenby]

Well, I think Beijing would see that. It sees kind of a great power arrangement, modus eveni, if you like, with Washington, with the United States. But it sees Europe as a very promising marketplace, particularly for instance, for electric, electric vehicles. At the moment, the Germans, who've made a huge investment in China, are now finding themselves undercut in China itself by Chinese made goods, domestically made goods. And so now you've got the probability of Chinese manufacturers of EVs, solar power and other things coming into Europe and selling within Europe. So it's a good market as well as its geopolitical implications.

[Georgina Godwin]

And tira, I was talking about that poll a little bit earlier on, which suggests trust in the US has slipped very badly. And I wonder how that changes Europe's planning.

[Tira Schubart]

Well, yes, I mean, there's been a couple of polls that have been asking whether or not different countries consider America a reliable or unreliable ally. Well, unreliable is virtually all of them. All of the different polls say America is an unreliable ally. And the greatest number of polling numbers that call America unreliable are from France and from Germany. These are key partners that would have never said that in the past. So that causes worry. And it also, as Jonathan says, gives countries like China a look in.

[Jonathan Fenby]

And another element in this, I think, is that looking ahead crystal ball, one can see increasingly increasing strength within some of the major European countries, notably France and Germany, of political parties which look inward basically. So the dynamic for further EU construction and the enlargement and strengthening of the single market must be very doubtful.

[Georgina Godwin]

So I mean, these doubts about the US Are not confined to Europe. Israel too seems to have little idea what to expect. And following talks between the US And Israel yesterday, Trump said that there was no settled agreement on how to move forward with Iran. He insisted that he wants to avoid conflict, he wants negotiations to continue, but he offered little sense of a path forward. Now, Israel's Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu was expected to push for a broader approach to Iran that's including limits beyond its nuclear program. He stressed Israel's security concerns, but he left without any clear public commitments. Now, unusually for Trump, who likes to conduct business in the full glare of the media spotlight, this meeting itself was notably discreet. So Jonathan, do we know where talks with Iran actually stand now? Are they working?

[Jonathan Fenby]

No, we don't know. And it may be that the two sides, the US or Trump at any rate, and Iran, are talking about different things. Trump talks about we're very close to a deal, we'll have a deal. But any deal that he would be able to accept and sell to his domestic public probably involves some degree of regime change and that would be a non starter for Tehran.

[Georgina Godwin]

And I mean tira, I wonder how much room for compromise there is because each of the three countries, Israel, Iran and the US Seems to have a set of red lines. Is there space for negotiations?

[Tira Schubart]

I think there is space for negotiation. And I think that the factor that we have to remember is on the fulcrum making are the Arab countries and America's Arab allies, particularly Qatar. Now, Qatar is a voice of moderation. And that may perhaps been one of the reasons why the seventh visit of Netanyahu to Trump since he became president last year was kept private because there's a lot more happening behind the scenes. Now don't forget that there are negotiations ongoing in Oman and the Iranians and the Americans have been going back and forth to Oman and very high level Iranians have made it known that they're going to come. And Ali Larajani, who's on The Supreme National Security Council have said yes, he thinks there is some common ground with the United States.

[Georgina Godwin]

But Jonathan, what incentive does Iran have to change course?

[Jonathan Fenby]

Well, it's very difficult to see an incentive if it would mean, as I just said a moment ago, regime change and the fall of the present regime in Tehran. You know, it's turkeys voting for Christmas and we don't. I wouldn't put big odds on that.

[Georgina Godwin]

Yeah. Tira, why do you think these talks were conducted without the usual media circus?

[Tira Schubart]

Well, because I think of what's going on at every, I think it's because of what's going on in Oman. There's a lot that and that is being kept very private. And at the same time there are more of the American aircraft steaming their way towards the Middle East. The USS Bush is on the way and it's not going to arrive with the rest of the so called armada. That was Trump's term for another week or so. So I think there's various reasons why the Americans want to keep it in a holding pattern and do some unusual behind the scene quiet diplomacy.

[Jonathan Fenby]

And you have the quiet diplomacy and then Trump can announce the big beautiful deal.

[Georgina Godwin]

Yes, yes. And take all of the credit for it.

[Jonathan Fenby]

And take all the credit, of course.

[Georgina Godwin]

I mean there is this interesting new Bloomberg Economics report. It looks like what renewed Middle east escalation would mean, particularly through energy markets. Jonathan, where do the biggest threats lie?

[Jonathan Fenby]

Well, energy markets and a war which or conflict which rolls on without any anybody able to stop it.

[Georgina Godwin]

And yeah, I mean Tira, the report also says that a real shock would only come if energy infrastructure or choke points are hit. How close are we to crossing that line right now? How worried should we be?

[Tira Schubart]

I think we should not, we should be concerned but not necessarily worried. And the Americans have found that it's very diffic wipe out the Iran nuclear program but it's beyond what's in Iran. Don't forget about Iran's non state allies, the ones that are in Iraq, the ones that are in Yemen. That is still something that's rumbling on and causing a tremendous amount of instability. And the non state allies, allies of Iran in Yemen are able to hit tankers going through the Gulf. The they're going through into the Gulf. And so they have a tremendous amount of negative power and that negative power causes pause.

[Jonathan Fenby]

Which brings us back to the first topic we discussed which is eu the EU summit. One of the main issues there on the agenda was the high energy costs in the EU which undoubtedly do handicap European industry. And the need to bring those down. And obviously a war, a real war in the Middle east over Iran would kibosh that.

[Georgina Godwin]

Absolutely. And I mean, when diplomacy stalls at the highest level, as it seems it may have done in this instance, politics does have a habit of resurfacing elsewhere, sometimes where it's least welcome. So at the Winter Olympics, the Ukrainian skeleton racer Vladislav Heraskevich has been disqualified after refusing to remove a helmet on honoring Ukrainians killed since Russia's invasion. So the decision was taken just 21 minutes before his event began in Cortina. Last ditch talks with Kirsty Coventry, the president of the International Olympic Committee, failed to find a compromise. So, Tira, I mean, you watch the Olympics. How unusual is it for an athlete to be removed from the competition this late? 21 minutes, that's pretty close to the bone.

[Tira Schubart]

Oh, yes. And I'll tell you, listening to many of the other athletes, not just in the skeleton and bobsled and those events, but across the Olympics, they were very much in support of the Ukrainian athlete and they were horrified that this had happened because they pointed out this wasn't a political slogan that Harris gaiich was carrying on his helmet. It was a memorial for athletes that had been killed in Ukraine.

[Jonathan Fenby]

Yes, I think it should have been allowed to go ahead, the wearing of the helmet. After all, the Russian flag is not displayed at the Olympics. The Russian national anthem is not played. And that seems to me to have been a political decision.

[Georgina Godwin]

I mean, do you think, Jonathan, that the rules around visible symbolism at the Olympics are clearly defined enough? Is that the problem?

[Jonathan Fenby]

Obviously not. And you're going to have these flare ups from time to time.

[Georgina Godwin]

So, Tina, Kirsty Coventry, whom I have to just fess up now, I know and knew as a schoolgirl, has a controversial background. As a former minister in the Zanupiaf government of Zimbabwe, that's a government internationally criticised for democratic backsliding. She only stepped down from that role to take up the IOC position. Do you think her personal background complicates the politics of this?

[Tira Schubart]

Well, that's a very interesting question. She was in tears after the meeting with her. But whether or not those were crocodile tears or not, we don't know. But as Jonathan says, I mean, the Olympics are very political. Russia's ban there, there was vice president. President Vance from America was booed heartily when he first arrived. There's been unveiling of signs. One very amusing one on Saturday night from an American spectator apologizing to the world for America and saying sorry for our bad behavior. And he quote, we will fix ourselves. So. And there's been demonstrations in previous Olympics that were very political. So this seemed to, I think this was a very bad call on the part of Coventry.

[Georgina Godwin]

Yeah, well, I mean, Jonathan, is the Olympics the right place to make political statements?

[Jonathan Fenby]

Well, as Tira said, this was not a purely political statement. You can parse it as such, of course, but it should have been allowed to go ahead.

[Georgina Godwin]

Although would it have then opened the floodgates for more protests?

[Yanis X Haros]

Of course.

[Tira Schubart]

Well, that's exactly the words that they used, the IOC committee. And they said, according to the red cross, there's 130 other conflicts around the world. And what would happen if everybody made a political statement? Well, maybe, maybe people would learn more about those 130 other conflicts. But ever since, you know, Tommy Smith and Carlos and John Carlos did the Black power salute in the Mexico Olympics in 1968, there have been political demonstrations of athletes in the Olympics.

[Jonathan Fenby]

It's bound to be a platform for remembrance or political statements.

[Georgina Godwin]

I mean it's very difficult to keep global conflict out of any big public event. And I mean I'm just thinking here, even of the Grammy Awards and Bad Bunn Bunny. I'm sure you're completely familiar with who he is, Jonathan.

[Jonathan Fenby]

Yes, I, I, I, I rap with his tunes every night.

[Georgina Godwin]

But I mean he, he made this big statement about ice. And then of course there was Bad Bunny again at the Super Bowl. And so you've got all of this going on. Things like the Oscars always have some kind of political message, don't they?

[Tira Schubart]

Yes. I mean it wouldn't be a sporting event or a cultural event without a political message in these, in these days of, of very divisive politics world.

[Jonathan Fenby]

Except for curling. Except for curling.

[Tira Schubart]

And that's the political for politics, that curling is good for the soul.

[Georgina Godwin]

Well, questions about voice and control don't end with athletes. Politicians are wrestling with them too. And in these days where absolutely everybody, and I'm saying this I hope you realize in quite an incensed way, absolutely everybody thinks they should have a podcast. Sometimes the politicians are doing it with a microphone in their hand. So the Swedish Prime Minister Ulf Kristersen has launched a weekly phone in podcast called Ring Stutzministern or Call the Prime Minister. I think that says everyone should have a chat with their government minister from time to time. Which is why I started my own podcast, Call the Prime Minister.

[Jonathan Fenby]

How much of a chat do you actually have?

[Georgina Godwin]

I don't know. I mean, I haven't listened to it and clearly if I did, it would be in Swedish and I wouldn't understand it.

[Tira Schubart]

Well, I think the Prime Minister in Sweden is a great optimist that people do want to talk to him and want to talk to him seriously, I've got to say. One day, some years ago, Michael Portillo, who was my mp, was canvassing for votes on the street. It was very early in the morning and he stopped me. I happened to walk past him, I was shocked to find him standing there canvassing on the street and he stopped, said, may I speak with you? You know, he was very polite and I said, I'm terribly sorry, my policy is never to speak to politicians before 9am and he said, madam, I quite understand.

[Georgina Godwin]

So just look at.

[Jonathan Fenby]

I prefer not to talk to the public after 9:00pm 9:00am Just, I mean.

[Georgina Godwin]

Because of course, Sweden's got this, an election coming up in September and Christensen's party, his centre right Moderates, are trailing in recent polls. So the idea apparently is to offer voters a direct line to him on SW Spotify or YouTube and to project openness at a time when trust is pretty thin. Jonathan, what does this say about modern leadership when a Prime Minister turns to a call in show?

[Jonathan Fenby]

Well, it says something pretty dire, I think. Mind you, I'm not sure that Gladstone would have been engaged in an open, friendly debate as we are promised with the Swedish Prime Minister.

[Georgina Godwin]

No, I wonder, I mean, tirit to circle back from what we were talking about earlier in this lack of media spotlight on the Iran meeting. I wonder if this is straight from the Trump playbook because his reality television start now, his every encounter with the world leader is conducted as if it is a talk show. Do you think that politicians now are taking his lead and they're trying to control another narrative through their own platform?

[Tira Schubart]

Oh, if they try to follow that, they're real optimists. There's very few politicians that I think, I think they would love to be able to have that spontaneity and that connection. You need a certain amount of, you see, you need a certain amount of grace and communication skills and not many of them have it. Barack Obama had it to a certain extent when he did those village meetings, but I can only think of a really embarrassing moment. We could probably find far more embarrassing moments of politicians than ones that really were successful in reaching their voters.

[Jonathan Fenby]

I don't think it'll put Trump off though. I mean, he will probably pick up this as an example of a good thing to do.

[Georgina Godwin]

Absolutely.

[Jonathan Fenby]

Call in Donald.

[Georgina Godwin]

Yes, exactly. Dial the don. Dial the don. I mean, can this.

[Jonathan Fenby]

You heard it here, dial the don.

[Georgina Godwin]

This win over voters. Do you think that polls. When polls move against a politician, is this the best way to counter it?

[Jonathan Fenby]

No, no, it's not going to do any good at all. I must just say I had a slightly different version of this, but some experience when I was a correspondent in France, talking on phone in radio shows with leading politicians there, including the Finance Minister at the time, and their replies were so wooden that they wouldn't have convinced anyone.

[Georgina Godwin]

I mean, maybe in France they should do it by email. You could have email Emmanuel.

[Jonathan Fenby]

Yes, well, Macron tried to get discussion going with various members of the public, but when they didn't agree with him, he just told them they were stupid.

[Georgina Godwin]

How would this work in British politics? Because, you know, call Kier.

[Tira Schubart]

Well, if you remember, when Boris Johnson was the mayor of London, he used to do a weekly Twitter press conference and because as a former journalist, he sort of had a way with words as he typed and he could choose which tweets to respond to. That was actually. That was sort of groundbreaking and fairly successful because he's very quick on his feet. But I was also doing a lot of work in African politics and this was copied by a number of politicians in Kenya.

[Yanis X Haros]

And.

[Tira Schubart]

And, oh, it just didn't work because, well, they didn't like the lack of formality because in some cultures you always say the honorable to politicians, although it doesn't trip lightly off the tongue in many European contexts. And so it just looked. And in the end you could tell they had just relegated the answering back to some aid that was probably in their 20s and was able to type faster and be a bit nimbler on their feet.

[Jonathan Fenby]

It isn't just the politicians, but I think it's also the callers in who tend to go on for a long, long time, very boringly putting their point of view.

[Georgina Godwin]

Oh, that's so true. And you know, you find those people.

[Jonathan Fenby]

But no politician dares cut them off.

[Georgina Godwin]

Yeah, well, you find those people at literary festivals and I absolutely dread when I hand over to audience questions and then the person usually stands up and goes, this is more of a statement than a question. And then they also try and take the microphone away from the volunteer. So I've strict rules now, never hand on the mic. And the minute they say statement in question, off it goes. We're cutting you off. We do not want to hear. Yeah, but I mean, at the same time, maybe I'm wrong. I can't listen to Vox Pops on television. I sort of feel like that you're just filling time and I don't care what the man in the street is saying, but people say that that's wrong and that all of these people's views are very important and should be taken into consideration, but perhaps in the right form.

[Jonathan Fenby]

And how are they chosen? Chosen? The people.

[Georgina Godwin]

Exactly.

[Jonathan Fenby]

It does tend to be what the French call fill ins.

[Georgina Godwin]

Yeah, yeah. No, it does.

[Jonathan Fenby]

And you have to have a balance. So you've gotta have somebody on the left, somebody on the right, somebody for. Somebody against. Yeah, so on. So it'll be interesting to see how the Swedish experiment works.

[Georgina Godwin]

Well, I mean, and this brings me back to knowing how to format something and the fact that not everybody can have a podcast. Why does everyone think they can tear it? I've got one skill, one skill in the world. And now everybody thinks they can do it.

[Tira Schubart]

They do. And I think it goes back to this desire for some people, they want to be liked. And when we have a politician that we can feel that, oh, I just really want to be liked, I think that we immediately, we immediately dismiss them. And we're very cruel as voters. And they shouldn't press their luck. They should just tell us what they.

[Jonathan Fenby]

Want to say or press the offer button.

[Tira Schubart]

That's for us voters to do.

[Georgina Godwin]

We can absolutely do that. Finally, on today's program, the Winter Olympics have been underway, as we've said, since Friday's opening ceremony in Milan. Monocle is there on the ground throughout the next two weeks, broadcasting from Allianz Winter Sky Lounge with a special show called Monocle in Milan. Well, earlier on that program, our Europe editor at large, Ed Stocker spoke to Yanis X Haros, the CEO of the Olympics Broadcasting Service. He started by asking him about how he got involved in the Games.

[Yanis X Haros]

My Olympic journey started much earlier, started in Sydney since after London that I became the CEO. But you know, I got.

[Ed Stocker]

You've been doing this a long time, a long time.

[Yanis X Haros]

And I. I got into it running the coverage for the Athens Games, and I thought that I would be doing it for one Games and then I would do something else. And here I am caught by the Olympic bike. But as you say, it's brilliant here because we're in the same building where the officers of the organizing committee have been for a number of years. So it was always a place where you could ponder and think and imagine what these Games could be like in a very special place like this one.

[Ed Stocker]

I feel like I need to explain to some listeners who may not Understand the sheer scope of what you do, because the Olympics Broadcasting Service is responsible for all the pictures and sound that come out of the Olympic Games in the sense that they are distributing to the rights holders all the coverage they're doing, all the filming. It sounds like an exhausting job. I remember we did a sort of monocle tour a few days ago and came to see what you do. You said you are collating something like 6400 hours of coverage. Yeah. Sounds like a very difficult task with a lot of people involved. Tell us about that.

[Yanis X Haros]

This is correct. But on the other side, you know, you get inspired by having to cover the greatest athletes in the world. And there is no incentive like that in the world. So to describe briefly what we do, we have the function, what's called host broadcasting, which essentially means two things. One, to do the total comprehensive coverage of all competition, plus all ceremonies for the Olympic Games, and to provide these images to all media rights holders around the world. The coverage, the broadcast of the Games goes practically around every part of the world, including in the Winter Games. And the second important task is to help all these media rights holders were more than 100, to slightly customize this coverage for the sake of their own audience audiences, to help them put their, their own commentators to do their own interviews with their athletes. Focus a little bit more on the athletes coming from their countries. The scope of it, as you said, it's quite large. Here we will produce something like 6500.

[Ed Stocker]

Hours, 100 hours out with my figure.

[Yanis X Haros]

Of broadcast, even though the total duration of competition is around 1000 hours. The, the reason why we shoot so much is because in today's world, you have to provide all different types and flavors of content. People do not consume content in the same way across demographic, across ages and across their daily lives. It's not just traditional television or linear television. It's social, it's digital, it's streaming. And we do produce for all these different formats. And, and it's very important that we do so because the Olympics remains one of the large, great audience aggregators. So it's a meeting place for all audiences. We do not have the luxury to say, you know, we focus more on the Generation Z or we focus more on this country and so on. We need them all. This is what makes the Olympics special. It's a unifying force and no pressure.

[Ed Stocker]

At all with several billion people watching around the world, right? None at all.

[Yanis X Haros]

Correct. We hope that here it's to going to be around 3 billion. But just to give you an idea in Paris 18 months ago, we had 5 billion people following the Olympic Games. What does it practically mean that 89% of the human population from the age of 5, 6 and above who have access to television or an Internet connection followed the Games on average. On traditional television, people would watched, on average, nine hours of coverage during the two weeks. And people with an access to social media account, they checked their social media for Olympic content 100 times on average during these two weeks. So it was a massive, massive following.

[Ed Stocker]

You mentioned the fact that you produce a lot more coverage than the actual length of the Games. You know, you've been CEO since 2012, but you've been doing this much longer. How has the viewing audience got more demanding in the sense that they need all these things, they need these short clips? You know, has it become, I guess, in a way, harder to do this job because people want more and more and more every time?

[Yanis X Haros]

Yes, this is correct. In a sense, it has become harder because there is not a single way of producing that is sufficient for all audiences. Today you have different audiences, different demographics that consume in different ways, but also the same people do consume throughout the day. I mean, you wake up in the morning, you check your mobile phone, you go to your office, you pretend to be working while on your laptop. We also watch a little bit of the Games, and you go back home, maybe you have a bigger screen with friends. So the habits, the viewing habits have become more diverse. This puts more pressure on us. But on the other hand, I would say that it does also provide us with more opportunities to make the Games really a much more intense and immersive experience for people throughout their lives during these days. And it's important to note that more than half of the audience of the Olympic Games are not sports fans. They're what we call casual fans. And this is, if you will, the power, power of the Games that they inspire people who are not necessarily into sports. They are people who tune in only every two or four years. And somehow I also feel that this is an important contribution of sports in the Olympic world to the world. I hope that many people will agree with me that we live at times where unifying forces are fewer and fewer, and the Olympics is one of them, and we need them. And if sport has this capacity, I think we need to do whatever it takes to enforce this message.

[Georgina Godwin]

Yanos X Haras there, speaking to our Europe editor at large, Ed Stocker on Monocle in Milan for more of our coverage from the Winter Olympics. Tune in to Monocle in Milan every day. This week at 9am London time. That's 10am in Milan on Monocle Radio. Or listen wherever you get your podcasts. And that's all for this edition of the Monocle Daily. A big thanks to my panelists today, Tyra Schubart and Jonathan Fenby. Today's show was produced by Monica Lillis and researched by Anneliese Maynard. Our sound engineer was Elliot Greenfield. And I can tell you that the very good dog Bella was also in the background, giving very helpful contributions. I'm Georgina Godwin here in London. The Monocle Daily is back at the same time tomorrow. Goodbye and thanks for listening.

[Yanis X Haros]

Sam.