Zelensky calls for the resignation of two ministers amid a growing energy-sector corruption investigation

Summary

The Monocle Daily — Episode Summary

Date: November 12, 2025
Host: Andrew Muller
Guests: Olga Takariuk (Ukrainian journalist & Chatham House associate), Sean Kemp (Political strategist, ex-Liberal Democrat adviser)

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Episode Overview

This edition of The Monocle Daily examines the latest political crisis in Ukraine: President Volodymyr Zelenskyy's call for the resignation of two ministers following a sweeping energy-sector corruption probe. The panel provides sharp analysis of the impact on Ukraine's war-time governance, international reputation, and future support from allies. The conversation then moves to rising tensions between Pakistan and Afghanistan, explores China’s diplomatic wooing of the Thai monarchy, and closes with spirited lighter discussions about subway dining etiquette and a quirky on-this-day reflection on Oregon’s exploding whale.

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Main Topics & Key Insights

1. Ukraine: Ministerial Resignations and Corruption Scandal

[03:34] – [13:00]

Details of the Scandal:

• The National Anti-Corruption Bureau of Ukraine has charged eight people with corruption related to the state nuclear power company, Inohoatom.
• Those implicated reportedly include close associates of President Zelenskyy, notably Timur Mindich—a former business partner from Zelenskyy's entertainment days—who fled Ukraine just before charges dropped.
• Allegations revolve around embezzlement of funds intended to shore up energy infrastructure; these kickback schemes potentially left Ukraine exposed to blackouts and Russian attacks.

Notable Quotes:

• "The most worrying part... is that all this chain leads up to [the President] himself." — Olga Takariuk [05:53]
• "If I wanted to undermine support for Ukraine and funding... what would be on my absolute wish list is a story that involves corruption, kickbacks, Zelensky, government ministers." — Sean Kemp [07:41]

Impact and Reactions:

• Significant blow to trust in Zelenskyy, both domestically and internationally.
• The robust anti-corruption investigation is a rare sign of democratic resilience and civil society power amid martial law and wartime conditions, attributed by Olga to successful civil protests:
  “A silver lining... a victory of the Ukrainian civil society. They managed to preserve the independence of these anti corruption bodies and [Ukraine] is still a democracy four years into a war.” — Olga Takariuk [09:33]
• However, Zelenskyy’s image (both as national leader and global symbol of Ukraine) is “laser-targeted” by the scandal.
  "If he then gets undermined... Who's the next figure?... Zelensky’s encapsulated what this war is about in the public imagination." — Sean Kemp [11:57]

2. Pakistan, Afghanistan & US Attention: Swords Rattling on the Frontier

[13:00] – [16:58]

Recent Developments:

• Suicide bombing in Islamabad blamed by Pakistani PM on India, but others point to Afghanistan and the Taliban.
• Military skirmishes and increased border clashes have led to fears of escalation.
• Turkish mediation is ongoing; no full-scale conflict deemed imminent.

Broader Implications:

• Speculation that Pakistan’s rhetoric partly serves to draw U.S. attention and support, especially under President Trump, who prizes mediation opportunities.
• Both panelists see Pakistan as maneuvering to appear as a victim or partner in need, potentially to curry favor with Washington.

Notable Quotes:

• “Pakistan wants to portray itself as a victim... It is actually a victim of either Indian or Afghanistan aggression.” — Olga Takariuk [15:30]
• “There’s honestly a world in which building something up, because it turns the attention of the US onto you, is a thing.” — Sean Kemp [16:14]

3. Royal Soft Power: Thailand’s King Visits China

[16:58] – [22:49]

Context:

• King Maha Vajiralongkorn’s first official visit to China; the first Thai royal visit since diplomatic ties began in 1975.
• China’s deep economic and demographic connections with Thailand (trade, investment, diaspora) motivate its courtship of the Thai monarchy.

Royalty as Diplomatic Tool:

• Despite China being a revolutionary communist state, the visit underscores the enduring power of monarchy as soft power, both in Asia and globally.
• The UK’s own monarchy wielded similar effects in support of Ukraine, with King Charles’s high-profile hosting of President Zelenskyy.

Notable Quotes:

• “That kind of soft power, exactly, the royal power, is something... very much needed, especially with people like Donald Trump who admire the royals.” — Olga Takariuk [21:19]
• “You need a bit of the old school glamour... so much part of how the British state works.” — Sean Kemp [19:28]

4. Subway Dining Etiquette: Seoul and Beyond

[23:54] – [28:16]

Seoul Subway Complaints:

• Over 4,200 complaints in five years about passengers eating on subways; no explicit ban unlike on buses.
• Strong smells from iconic Korean dishes spark division between convenience and courtesy.

The Panel’s Confessions and Observations:

• Olga admits to feeding her children on the Tube; Sean denounces but admits occasional self-exceptions.
• Both marvel (slightly grudgingly) at people who manage full cutlery-based meals in transit.

Memorable Lines:

• “If anybody else notices anything you’re doing, you’re probably being a jerk.” — Andrew Muller [27:31]
• “For me, it doesn’t move into the same territory as people listening to their music without headphones... That should be a custodial sentence.” — Sean Kemp [26:00]
• Sean’s evocative story about missing a train with McDonald’s: “So angry I just hurled my McDonald's at the train… I was now standing in the middle of the night in a train platform with no money and no food and no train.” [27:42]

5. On This Day — The Exploding Whale of Florence, Oregon

[28:34] – End

Historic Viral Video Recalled:

• November 12, 1970: Oregon authorities attempted to dispose of a beached whale with dynamite, resulting in flying blubber, car damage, and global internet fame decades on.
• The incident is celebrated as a local legend and even became the namesake for a minor-league baseball team.

Anecdotal Narration:

• “Not for the first or last time in American history, it was felt that a decisive application of violence would solve the problem.” — Andrew Muller [28:38]
• The story underlines how quirky real-world mishaps became some of the internet’s earliest viral phenomena.

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• 03:34 — Ukraine corruption scandal breakdown
• 07:41 — Global implications, Zelenskyy’s image
• 13:57 — Pakistan-Afghanistan latest, U.S. attention, and Trump factor
• 16:58 — Thai king’s visit to China, monarchy’s diplomatic spadework
• 19:28 — UK monarchy as soft power
• 21:19 — King Charles’s impact on Ukraine
• 23:54 — Seoul subway food debate
• 27:42 — Sean’s relatable train-and-McDonald’s mishap
• 28:34 — “On This Day:” the infamous exploding whale

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Memorable Quotes

• "If anybody else notices anything you’re doing, you’re probably being a jerk." — Andrew Muller [27:31]
• "If he then gets undermined... Who's the next figure?" — Sean Kemp [11:57]
• “A silver lining... a victory of the Ukrainian civil society. They managed to preserve the independence of these anti corruption bodies and [Ukraine] is still a democracy four years into a war.” — Olga Takariuk [09:33]

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Episode Tone & Takeaways

The Monocle Daily continues its trademark blend of incisive global analysis, candid opinions, and light-hearted observation. The panel’s discussion of Ukrainian politics is both sober and revealing, showing the tension between democratic aspirations and the perils of corruption. Their exploration of international relations, from South Asia’s brinkmanship to China’s soft-power games, is literate and nuanced, while the subway and exploding whale segments provide levity and human connection.

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For listeners and policymakers alike, this episode is a snapshot of a world where the fight for governance, public trust, and soft power plays out across both serious headlines and the everyday quirks that bind societies together.

Transcript

[A]

Every day, the world presents you with hundreds of headlines. What do you believe? Who do you trust? The Financial Times cuts through complexity with clarity, accuracy and global perspective. Its journalism is guided by independence, not agendas. That's why leaders in business, policy and culture turn to one trusted source for facts, for insight, for what matters next. Source FT Read more and [e-mail] you're listening to the Monocle Daily, first broadcast on 12 November 2025 on Monocle Radio.

[B]

Two Ukrainian ministers resign amid gathering corruption scandal. Pakistan rattles its sabres in the direction of Afghanistan and the appalling people who cannot tell a subway carriage from a diner. I'm Andrew Muller. The Monocle Daily starts now.

[C]

Foreign.

[B]

Hello and welcome to the Monocle Daily. Coming to you from our studios here at Midori House in London, I'm Andrew Muller. My guests Olga Takariuk and Sean Kemp will discuss the day's big stories. And our on this day historical series will recall the picturesque demise of the most famous whale since Moby Dick. Stay tuned. All that and more coming up right here on the Monarch Daily. This is the Monocle Daily. I'm Andrew Muller and I am joined today by Olga Takaryuk, Ukrainian journalist and Academy associate at Chatham House, and Shaun Kemp, a political strategist and former advisor to the Liberal Democrats when they were in government. If only they'd listen. Shaun hello, welcome to you both. Hello Sean. First of all, I believe you are discovering that the intense study of medieval history and new fatherhood are not necessarily the ideal combination.

[C]

Yeah, I just had. I now have a three month old baby and I decided what would be the thing to do in my three hours, which there are numerous hours to reach. Several thousand page history of the Hundred Years war. I am four months into this project and I've read 250 pages.

[B]

Sorry about the thought you were about to say. I'm four months of 100 years war. 99 years.

[C]

Whether I beat the war or not now is the question. It's one of the most ill considerable considered things and I am too stubborn to give up. So when I'm like 90 and crying over this book, that'll be why this is good.

[B]

Next time you come in, we will quiz you. Olga, you have not been to Ukraine relatively recently, but you are making Christmas plans in that direction. How difficult or otherwise is that to organize at this point?

[A]

I mean it is not difficult to organize the trip and I've done it multiple times before. But I think the change and something different that I have to prepare prepare for this Time is the intensity and the duration of blackouts in Ukraine. It's been like really, really bad in the recent weeks and it's not even winter yet. So in Chernivtsi, where I'm going in the west of Ukraine, there are now up to 10 hours without electricity every day. And again, we are just in November. So I'm stocking up on like power banks and batteries and just like checking with my relatives there what would help to bring there. But like, yeah, preparing to have candlelit dinners.

[B]

Well, for related reasons, we will start in Ukraine and with one of those stories about which it is hard to know whether to be disheartened or heartened. On the downside, it is obviously bad if senior officials of a country fighting for its life are exploiting a moment of peril to line their own pockets. On the upside, it is not nothing that a nation under existential pressures is nevertheless capable of demanding and enforcing accountability from the people running it. President Volodymyr Zelenskyy has asked for the resignations of the minister and energy minister and both have now accordingly gone. These are the latest developments in a scandal involving state nuclear power company Inohoatom. Olga, what as far as we can tell, appears to have gone on here.

[A]

Yeah, so what we know is that yesterday the National Anti Corruption Bureau of Ukraine has charged eight people with corruption, illicit embezzlement and other crimes. And apparent the people who have been charged, whose names have not been disclosed publicly by the authorities. But there has been a lot of reporting in the media who they are. These are people who either were working in the energy sector or people who are very close to the government. And even President Zelensky, including one of his former business partners and co owner of his Quartel 95 show business company who has fled Ukraine just before these charges were pressed against him. It seems that he has been tipped off that these charges were forthcoming and he has fled Ukraine and his name is Timur Mindich. This is the person who. There were rumors circulating already for several months that he is very close to Zelenskyy and that he participates in several high profile kickback schemes where money that is, that is supposed to be on building protections for energy infrastructure objects in Ukraine is part of that money is being basically stolen by a group of people who have cover at the highest levels of the Ukrainian government, including the president. And actually this National Anti Corruption Bureau, they released hours and hours of intercepted conversations between people who have been charged and the name of President Zelenskyy is there. So apparently he was with the Minister of Energy and former Minister of Energy and current Minister of Justice, who has just resigned today, Herman Halushenko. He was meeting with other people. There is at least another one foreign former minister, Vice Minister Oleksi Chernyshev, who has been, who has resigned several months ago, who is also allegedly a part, who was allegedly part of this scam. So yeah, it involves like really high profile officials. But the most kind of worrying part of it is that all this chain leads up to President himself. And that of course is a huge blow to the trust in Zelensky and in the government both inside Ukraine, but also outside Ukraine. And Ukraine, as you know, is heavily reliant on financial support and military support of its partners. And having this corruption scandal in which potentially even the President was implicated, of course damages a lot Ukraine's prospects of maintaining that support.

[B]

A couple of things there we will come back to. But Sean, is it being, if we look at this from afar, obviously being untowardly Pollyanna ish to say that it is not nothing, that a country which as I said is fighting for its life, is under martial law, effectively ruled by decree by its president, nevertheless has a functioning anti corruption body which is independent and is willing and able to pursue people up to and including friends and associates of the President?

[C]

I think it's a slightly glass half full way of looking at it. I appreciate the point and I do think it's true. And I think like we can sort of sit here and go, well, that's, you know, admirable in the circumstances and it's good to see they demonstrate taking it seriously. But you. I more put myself in the position of if I wanted to undermine support for Ukraine and funding for Ukraine around the world, what would be on my absolute wish list is a story that involves the words corruption kicks backs, Zelensky, government ministers, and in a sense the finer details of it don't really matter. If I just want to sow unease and a bit of disinformation. And that I worry is the, on an international sort of stage, the biggest problem is if you're someone who for whatever reason wants to undermine support for Ukraine, this story is a gift and it doesn't really matter how robust the investigation is. In a way, the robustness of the investigation is partly a flaw because it brings up all this evidence. So they have to act quickly, they have to deal with it. And it is great that they are, but you can't pretend it's anything other than incredibly serious. And as news of it starts to I think sort of as it starts to be noticed more and more worldwide and as people start to stoke it, and people will start to stoke it as a story, I think it's going.

[B]

To be problematic, hugely problematic inside Ukraine. Olga, how much of this stuff sticks to Zelenskyy personally is there? Because there was that thing earlier this year, of course, where he seemed to steps towards defanging this anti corruption body. There were those large scale protests by Ukrainian people saying oh no you don't, who do you think you are? Et cetera. And he did back down. Is this likely to damage him though, even if he has tried clearly to get out in front of it by saying I want these two people gone and they're gone?

[A]

Well, I think yes, definitely, it damages him a lot. And actually this is seen by Ukrainians, you know, that the fact that this investigation was going on, that it was made public, it is seen as a result of those protests over the summer when people and the young people, many of them young people, they took to the streets with these cardboard placards protecting the independence of these anti corruption bodies and they managed to get the president and the parliament that is completely under control of the president to step back and roll back those pieces of legislation that were about to curb the independence of this anti corruption body. So in a way it is kind of, you can say that there is a silver lining to it, that it is a victory of the Ukrainian civil society. They managed to preserve the existence and the independence of these anti corruption bodies and that Ukraine is still a democracy four years into the war of survival and fighting for its existence. It still manages to preserve the democratic processes, but definitely it damages a lot trust of Ukrainians in the government, in the president, and especially because it has to do with this very delicate issue and really the issue that affects every Ukrainian of how are they going to go through this winter. People already do not have electricity to survive. They are fundraising their own money for the army. And then they hear that people who were responsible for providing cover for energy infrastructure objects that they were not actually doing that they were more interested in embezzling the money and dividing and taking these kickbacks rather than actually building those protections from Russian attacks that now a lot of people in Ukraine are saying, well, that's why we have these blackouts, because they didn't build adequate protection for this energy infrastructure objects because they were bus dividing and stealing the money.

[B]

Just finally on this, Sean, it goes back to an earlier point you were making about how important it is for Ukraine in terms of attracting and sustaining foreign support to be able to depict itself as a virtuous nation. How dangerous is it if it turns out that Zelensky is actually tarnished by this? Because he has done a very good job, and I think we all understand why, of presenting himself as the personification of the Ukrainian nation these last few years for most of the world, he is Ukraine and Ukraine is him.

[C]

I think it'd be catastrophically bad because you would need someone he's been so good, as you say, as becoming the personification of Ukraine on, of being this totemic figure and on a global stage, actually quite a popular figure. I was looking at some opinion polling yesterday about. It was about UK politics, about the Reform Party. But the only real blow the Reform Party's ever had is after Trump confronted Zelenskyy. And because people associated reform with Trump, you saw reform support go down. He's got that stature. So if he then gets undermined, we're all in ifs, buts and maybes here. I know, and hypothetical. But if he is then undermined, I can't. Who's the next figure who sort of stands up? It's Zelensky's encapsulated a lot why this is in the public imagination, what they associate the war with. I mean, you'd say actually frankly, it's Zelensky and power cuts, actually, that's why it's so the combination of it like people know and understand about the electricity and the energy sector and Einstein, Zelensky is the personification of it. And you've almost laser guided a story that just sort of like undermines all of that.

[B]

Well, to Afghanistan now and what may shortly prove a spectacular sundering of its long standing friendship of convenience with neighboring Pakistan. Yesterday, 12 people were killed and 27 injured by a suicide bombing outside a courthouse in Islamabad. Pakistan's Prime Minister Shabaz Sharif blamed the blast on terrorist group sponsors sponsored by India, which is pretty much Pakistan's standard response on such occasions. Others in Pakistan's government seem less certain. Defense Minister Khawaja Asif pinned blame on Afghanistan, the Taliban leadership of which maintains relations of some kind with a Pakistani franchise of the same name. Olga, this is not descended from a clear blue sky. There have been clashes between Pakistan and Afghanistan along the border. There's been a failure of peace talks between them in Istanbul. Do we have to brace ourselves for the prospect of a proper punch up along the northwest frontier?

[A]

Well, from what I read on this topic, not yet. There will be another attempt of negotiations mediated by Turkey. Later this week. And whereas it is a fact that the number of attacks in Pakistan has increased in the past years and there are these kind of tensions between Kabul and Islamabad, it does not look like there will be like a full fledged war between them yet.

[B]

I mean, would there be any imaginable mileage, Sean, in Pakistan deciding to steam into Afghanistan? I mean, the Defence Minister Khawaja Asif does seem quite keen on this prospect, but you would think the Pakistanis might know better than most people how well this usually goes.

[C]

I was going to say it's a good idea to steam into Afghanistan is famously a very, very poor military strategy. So I agree. I can't. It's gonna be horrific. Famous last words, isn't it? But I would be surprised if it escalated in a way that the rhetoric is pointing towards it escalating. I think it will be rhetoric, some instance, some form of brokered talk. And then weirdly, Donald Trump will claim he was responsible for the peace in about six months time. I find it hard to believe it's actually going to escalate in the way that some of the words about it at the moment are claiming there's another.

[A]

War that Trump ended.

[C]

Exactly. He needs a few more for next year's Nobel so we can rack some up.

[B]

Genuinely a thing. I was wondering, though, Olga, does this seem like somewhat frantic attention seeking on Pakistan's behalf, the attention they are seeking being specifically that of the President of the United States?

[A]

Well, it seems that the relations between the US and Pakistan have warmed up recently. So I'm not sure how much like there is an urgency in Pakistan to kind of attract more attention. However, I think Pakistan also wants to portray itself as a victim basically of other countries or other groups aggression. So it's not Pakistan that is to blame. It is actually victim of either Indian or Afghanistan aggression.

[B]

Do you get the sense though, that there is a contest going on here between Pakistan and India for the attention and favor of President Trump?

[C]

Yes, absolutely. And India's annoyed him. So Pakistan is that like quite cannily. You can see there's been an attempt to move into that gap. And it's not like we sound like we're being glip it, but I don't actually think it is glib if, if you really want to get the attention of Donald Trump and the US State and the often large sums of money and support they can offer you, giving them a chance to say they are defusing an international situation has proved to be quite successful for people over the last 12 months. So you can There is honestly a world in which a bit of building something up because it turns the attention of the US onto you actually is a thing. It wouldn't surprise me if that was part of the equation. I think more broadly, yes, Pakistan's quite clearly sees an opportunity in its relations with the US and he's trying to take advantage of that.

[B]

Well, to China now. A journey shortly to be undertaken by King Mahavajiralongkorn of Thailand, the first visit by a reigning Thai monarch to the People's Republic since they exchanged ambassadors in 1975. It may seem unlikely that a revolutionary Communist party will be much beguiled by royalty. China's last emperor, Puyi, who died in 1967, ended his days a gardener and a researcher living in a Beijing apartment. Nevertheless, Thailand seems convinced that the regal touch will further warm relations between the two countries. China is, unsurprisingly, a colossally important trading partner for Thailand, and Thailand hopes to further encourage tourism from China. Despite what I was saying, Olga, about how you would think revolutionary Communists would be uninterested in a foreign king, China has apparently been trying to get this happen to happen rather for ages. They invited the previous king, the interminably serving bumble, many, many times and for whatever reason he decided he didn't fancy it. Why are they so excited to have the King of Thailand come and visit?

[A]

Well, I think there are several reasons. First of all, it's the ties between the two countries and the presence of China. Thailand. So China is the country that is. I mean, Thailand is getting most of its exports from China. Chinese tourists are top tourists that are visiting Thailand every year. China is investing a lot in Thailand, especially its automotive industry. And there are a lot of people of Chinese heritage who live in Thailand. So that's one of the reasons. And, and another one is this, the quest that China has embarked on to sp had its influence in Asia, in other countries that maybe did not enjoy very warm relations or they are not as warm as China would like them to be. So they just want Thailand to kind of become more embedded into China's orbit and to spread its influence there. And that's why it wanted this visit, this king's visit, so badly.

[B]

It is peculiar, Sean, like in the year of our Lord 2025, the, the astonishing effect, transfixing effect that royalty can still have. When you worked in government in this country, was there much discussion of, you know, how it can be used as a diplomatic and economic lever, that people are just really excited when they meet a king?

[C]

In a sense, no but that in itself was telling because you didn't have to discuss that. It was, you would just go, well, should there be a state visit? Or you. And, and you would. And it was just accepted that that was one of the tools in the, the UK's armory for foreign relations was well, we can sort of, we can wheel out a royal, get some people marching and, and it will go down well. It was just kind of accepted. So in an odd way, it was just, it was so much part of the playbook, like particularly at the high level, you know, do you do state visits or something? But a lower level that a bit of sort of royal flummery goes a long way and it's baked into how the British state works anyway. So like where, like our offices were in the Liberal Democrat, in the Cabinet Office, it backed on to where you would just see the guards marching up and down every day and the bands playing. It's so much part of how the British state works. And they have instinctively, I think it's one of the success, successes you can say of like the 20th century monarchy and 20th century British state is they tapped into that idea that even if there's no actual real power from the royal family, the soft power and the obsession that people have with, say the British royal family are all royals. Charles is so great that it can go a long way. And the states that understand that, I think are constantly pleasantly surprised by how much it gets here.

[B]

An example from recent history, I guess, Olga, which is that King Charles has obviously been extremely solicitous of President Zelenskyy and though he is probably precluded by his role from coming out and stating full throatedly, yay Ukraine, Boo Russia, I think it's fairly clear where his sympath. Has that been useful to Ukraine, do you think, either in terms of just raising morale among Ukrainians or, you know, giving President Zelenskyy further space on the world stage?

[A]

Well, I think, yes, absolutely. In one of his recent interviews, President Zelenskyy actually acknowledged that King Charles played a big role in, well, possibly shifting even if for a short time, the opinion of the US President Donald Trump. You know, when during his state visit to the uk, when there was this, the dinner, the Royal D and a speech by King Charles in which he reiterated how Ukraine is resisting tyranny and how important it is to kind of for other countries to do the same and to support Ukraine in this endeavor. So that kind of soft power, exactly, the royal power is something that is very much needed, I think, with people especially like people like Donald Trump who respect the monarchy, who admire the royals, who really were looking forward this visit. So it was definitely played in Ukraine's interest.

[C]

The one thing I would say is what all this shows is what you don't really want is a monarchy that goes through the tedious business of trying to modernize itself. You don't want some king or queen who rides the bike to the palace every day and so on. You need a bit of the, you need the old school glamour to still be there. You need it to be the crowns and the horses and the carriage. It sounds silly but you've got to really walk the walk, the walk of being a royal family. You don't want them just be walking around in suits and ties and be like very boring, like middle manager types. You need a full on royal family to get the full impact of it.

[B]

I just want to go back finally to the thing you were saying, Sean, about how it was just taken for granted in the UK government that you have this thing available. Was it so taken for granted that there was never any sort of conversation, even after a few drinks of people going, why does this work? Isn't it a bit weird that everybody just, you know, whatever their inclinations and whatever their own system of government tends to sort of, you know, get all giggly and silly when a bona fide British royal hooves into view?

[C]

Well, the worst people in the world to have like sort of a moment of like perception and reality about why is everyone obsessed with the royal family are probably people in Britain, right? And not to that extent. What's strange was for the deputy Prime Minister, he was, was partly responsible for the royals around the royal family. So you'd have discussion about like primogeniture and like, you know, when can the woman be like in line to the throne? And some. So what we ended up being more obsessed by is we ended up with a weird area of our responsibility being like the kind of insane rules that lie behind the royal family. But no, you never do. You just like, it's just baked in. We're British, this is what we do.

[B]

Well, to Seoul now, where a consensus appears to be forming that marvelous though Korean cuisine is, and it is, it does not necessarily mix with the confined spaces and poor ventilation of underground train carriages. It has emerged that over the last five years, municipal authorities in Seoul have fielded more than 4,200 complaints about passengers eating or drinking on Seoul subway. Particularly noxious dishes in such environs include jimbap kimchi, the blood sausage known as soondae. Dried squid and fried potatoes. While there are bylaws against eating on Seoul buses, which is not something I knew when I woke up this morning, no specific rules forbid dining on the metro. I mean, Korean food being Korean food, I was mostly impressed that people are eating this in a moving situation, because this is just all going to end up on your shirt, isn't it?

[A]

Well, I think before expressing any opinions, I have to admit to being guilty of eating on London's tube.

[B]

So get out.

[A]

But in my defense, I can say that I was traveling with children. So, you know, it's very difficult to tell kids, no, you can't have that now, because then maybe the consequences are far worse than just smells that you know are disturbing other passengers.

[B]

You weren't trying to eat kimchi with chopsticks, though.

[A]

No, it wasn't kimchi. It wasn't even Korean food. I'd rather not say what. What it was, but something that kids love and that actually, yeah, that has a smell that might disturb other people. So, yeah, I don't think I can judge, you know, those Koreans who were eating on the Tube, because I've done it, too. I've seen people who did it, and I understand, you know, people have so such bus lives these days that sometimes you might not even have time to eat somewhere else. You have to do it on public transport.

[B]

Sean, are you sympathetic to the Tube snacker? Are you now or have you ever been one?

[C]

I'm not at all sympathetic to the Tube snacker until I find myself hungry, in which case I decide I can make an exception for myself.

[A]

Or your kids.

[C]

Yeah, or my kids. It's one of these things I don't. For me, it doesn't move into the same territory as people listening to their music without headphones, for example, which is just like. That should be a custodial sentence.

[B]

Oh, yes. Well, actually, custodial sentences is one of the milder penalties that has been suggested from around this table.

[C]

If I said, do my league table, that would be top people who don't take off their rucksacks and it's round four. Like, it's kind of like, I've got to choose what I'm going to get angry about. Otherwise I would never, like, get through a day.

[B]

I did want to ask, and not just the London Underground, anywhere you like, have you ever seen. Because the ones that almost impress me. Me, Olga, I'm very much not in favor of this. I will reiterate my one golden rule of being on public transport, or indeed being in public, which is that if anybody else notices anything you're doing, you're probably being a jerk. But I'm almost impressed by the people that you see sometimes. The people who eat a meal on the tube that involves cutlery is almost impressive to me. I have seen it, someone like literally.

[A]

Whipping out the knife, imagine those balancing scales that they need to do that. So I admire actually you know, their stability, probably their mental health as well. Because to do that you need to be very stable person in many respects.

[B]

It'S a complete lack of self consciousness.

[C]

I think it's the gamble you're taking that you're definitely gonna get a seat. If you're going for a cutlery based meal, you've instantly taken a gamble that you're going to get a seat, which that seems to me already.

[B]

I mean there are some times of day that's a reasonable assumption.

[C]

Not your main meal times.

[B]

No, that is true. Have you ever seen anybody eating anything noteworthy remarkable on the tube?

[C]

No. I was gonna say what you have reminded me is the time when I was once late getting back to is when I lived in South London, had to get a train and I was so hungry, it was late at night. I got a McDonald's that I was gonna eat on the train but it took so long to serve that as I was running onto the platform the train pulled, just was pulling away. I was like 10 seconds late and I was so angry I just carried on sprinting and hurled my McDonald's train and then realized I was just. I was now standing in the middle of the night in a train platform with no money and no food and no train. So you know, I probably should also get a custodial sentence.

[B]

Well on that evocation of an unfinished Edward Hopper masterpiece. Sean Kemp and Olga Takariuk, thank you for joining us. Finally on today's show, our on this day historical series reflects on the inadvertent filming of one of the first viral videos decades before the World Wide web was connected.

[A]

Press your hat.

[C]

Yes sir.

[B]

We are all by now familiar with the concept of the virus viral video. Indeed, many of us are arguably over familiar with it. Even relatively Sober analysis of TikTok consumption suggests that the average user spends around a cumulative two weeks per year scrolling through fleeting and fleetingly satisfying videos. But there is viral and there is viral. Most TikTok content is deliberately created to attract attention. If this is viral virus, it is lab grown artificial. The online era's first wave of viral video was more organic footage of stuff which would have happened even if someone hadn't been filming it. And for many people getting to grips with the early years of the World Wide Web, one of the first viral videos they saw once they'd spent half an hour waiting for it to download through a dial up connect depicted an event from the offline age. Specifically an event which occurred on November 12, 1970 in Florence, Oregon. A small seaside berg on Oregon's Pacific coast in which little of interest had occurred before and in which little of interest has occurred since. Big hello to our listeners partners in Florence, Oregon. Hello. On November 9, 1970, a dead sperm whale washed ashore on Florence's shoreline. This presented a difficulty, as one newsman of the time noted. It had to be said the Oregon State Highway Division not only had a whale of a problem on its hands, it had a stinking whale of a problem. What to do with one 45 foot 8 ton whale dead on arrival on the beach near Florence, the whale could not be left to rot. It would stink and attract vermin. There was no point in burying it, as there was no means of stopping said vermin from digging it back up. It could not easily be towed away and anywhere where do you even tow 8 tonnes of dead whale? But something needed to be done. Done as all Florence's citizens agreed. Not for the first or last time in American history, it was felt that a decisive application of violence would solve the problem. It was resolved to blow the vast mammal up. The idea being that the consequent fragments of flesh would be organically cleaned up by grateful seabirds, not for the first or last time in American history. The person whose job it is to put the always crucial question, what could possibly go wrong? Missed the meeting. The authorities called in. Whoever it is you call in when you want to blow up a whale, well, I'm confident that it'll work. The only thing is, we're not sure just exactly how much explosives it'll take to disintegrate this thing so the scavengers, seagulls and crabs and whatnot can clean it up. This bewilderment proved crucial to what ensued. Unsure how much dynamite it takes to dismantle a whale into seagull portable nuggets. And with explosive to blubber ratios still being in 1970 an inexact science, it was felt that the way forward would be to err on the side of overdoing it. And anyway, with the charges placed so as to direct the detritus towards the water, it was surely difficult to imagine any unpleasant or regrettable consequences. A crowd of a few dozen locals gathered at what they believed a safe distance to watch what would be one way or the other, the most interesting thing ever to have occurred in Florence, Oregon. As the countdown commenced, reporters shoehorned their final desperate cetacean puns into their scripts. We're moved back a quarter of a mile away. The sand dunes there were covered with spectators and land lubber newsmen, shortly to become land blubber newsmen. Four, three, two, one. It turned out there is only so much you can do to direct the path of gelatinous shrapnel. After the blast, the humor of the entire situation suddenly gave way to a run for survival as huge chunks of whale blubber fell everywhere. Pieces of meat passed high over our heads while others were falling at our feet. The dunes were rapidly evacuated as spectators escaped both the falling debris and the overwhelming smell. Lumps of whale hailed upon the vicinity, one especially hefty chunk destroying a car parked 400 meters away, a car which belonged, as if the laws of physics were determined their point as ironically as possible to one onlooker who actually had some professional expertise in the employment of explosives and had endeavoured to point out shortcomings in the plan. Though no injuries were reported except to the pride and professional reputation of those responsible for the detonation, all caught within the blast radius were liberally doused with flecks of reeking meat. Indeed, this view seemed shared by the seagulls, who, whether deterred by the noise, the smell, or both, showed no interest in the beach blubber buffet. What remained was buried, and Oregon's Florentines might have believed that the embarrassment was as well. But a few decades later, someone invented the Internet. Someone else uploaded the original coverage by Paul Linman of KATU News, and it amused people who sent it to other people with the promise that downloading it was a worthwhile incident. Use of your afternoon. A 1990 column on the incident by Dave Barry became a primordial email forward. The dead whale was born again and it lives today. It has been referenced in the Simpsons and adopted as an alternate identity identity for a local ish baseball team. The Eugene Emeralds have taken the field as the Eugene Exploding whales In Florence. Sections of the whale skeleton may be venerated at the CSLaw Pioneer Museum. There is an exploding whale Memorial park and on anniversaries of this day 55 years ago, a town festival with costumes and civic awards. Happy except Exploding Whale Day to all those who celebrate. For Monocle Radio, I'm Andrew Muller, and that is it for this edition of the Monocle Daily. Thanks to our panelists today, Olga Takariuk and Sean Kemp. The show was produced by Tom Webb and researched by Joanna Moser. Our sound engineer was Elliot Greenfield. I'm Andrew Muller here in London. The Daily is back at the same time tomorrow. Thanks for listening.

[A]

La.