The Monopoly Report – Episode 43: Behind the Curtain at the FTC

Host: Alan Chapell
Guest: Shoshana Wodinski (ex-reporter, former FTC senior advisor for technology)
Release Date: August 20, 2025

Episode Overview

This episode provides a candid, in-depth look into the inner workings of the Federal Trade Commission (FTC), particularly in the realm of tech, privacy, and advertising regulation. Guest Shoshana Wodinski—a journalist who transitioned to a pivotal, behind-the-scenes regulator role—discusses her experiences at the agency during the pivotal transitions from Lina Khan’s leadership to Chair Andrew Ferguson. The discussion covers the shifting philosophies and priorities of the FTC, how cases are selected and pursued, the friction between economists and technologists, and the real challenges (and occasional absurdities) of regulating fast-moving markets with slow-moving bureaucracy.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Jump from Journalism to Regulation

• Shoshana's journey (02:14):
  • Lack of a national privacy law in the US compared to the EU/other regions shaped her view that the FTC is the de facto privacy regulator.
  • Lina Khan’s impact credited for setting “national” privacy standards through FTC action.
  • Candid reason for leaving journalism: “money in journalism is kind of tight these days.”
  • Love for “tricky sort of moral dilemmas that can have simple technological answers” found in privacy issues.

  “If you ask two people what privacy is, you can get like three different answers.”
  —Shoshana Wodinski [03:21]

2. Culture & Leadership Shifts at the FTC

• Lina Khan’s disruptive entry (04:03–06:56):

  • Khan radically lowered the bar for intervention (“It’s not going to be a seven, it’s now going to be a two or three.”)
  • Pushed the idea of “potential harm” in privacy cases.
  • Created the Office of Technology, bringing more tech expertise in-house—a first for the FTC.

  “Not bringing a legal theory to a tech fight.”
  —Shoshana Wodinski [09:18]

• Ferguson’s different leadership style:

  • Marked change in priorities and working approach when new leadership arrived.
  • New administration less receptive to technologist input.

3. The Praxis of Regulation: What’s It Really Like?

• Bureaucratic friction & slow pace (12:50):

  • Dramatic contrast between newsroom speed and government process:

    “I have never gone through that much red tape to put out a basic factual sentence… I do not miss that at all.”
    —Shoshana Wodinski [13:36]

  • Multiple rounds of clearance and legal review—even for simple, consensus statements.

• Intra-agency culture clash:

  • Friction between the Bureau of Economics and the technologists.

  “Have you ever tried to talk to a high-level PhD and tell them why their research is wrong? It doesn’t go well.”
  —Shoshana Wodinski [11:15]

• Role as educator:

  • Shoshana often served as “unofficial RTB ambassador” for the FTC, holding agency-wide presentations explaining complex ad tech topics.

4. Case Studies: Real Tech Policy, Real Politics

• Recent CIDs targeting “bias against conservative publishers” (15:34–19:19):

  • Shoshana recounts internal discomfort with the case’s political overtones—stated reason was to investigate how ad tech companies might “censor” conservative voices.
  • Pushed to reframe the investigation as a general inquiry into brand safety, not just political bias.

  “Guys, this is embarrassing. Can we please make this more of a discussion about brand safety…?”
  —Shoshana Wodinski [17:30]

  • Even internally, legal theories felt vague and difficult to support.

• Challenges in drafting broad/vague CIDs:

  • CIDs described as “improperly broad” by the industry [21:01].
  • Shoshana observes:

    “…the fact that something that is vague and could be interpreted as unanswerable… made it to print, that to me says that the new chair isn't taking input from technologists the same way…”
    —Shoshana Wodinski [21:47]

• Surveillance pricing "fishing expedition" (22:28–25:19):

  • Describes the FTC’s “6B” study into using personal data for price variation (“surveillance pricing”) as more of a learning exercise than law enforcement.
  • Ultimately found mostly e-commerce couponing/discounting, not manipulation predicted/worried about.

5. Notable Enforcement & Regulatory Achievements

• Mobilewalla case (25:45–26:41):

  • First regulatory action against a company for acquiring RTB data “improperly via real time bidding auctions that they hadn’t won.”
  • Personal satisfaction in seeing regulatory acknowledgement of long-standing ad tech privacy abuses.

  “I was literally like crying… The regulators actually do listen… They do make genuine strides.”
  —Shoshana Wodinski [26:41]

• Shift towards antitrust focus in ad tech:

  • Ferguson’s interest in anti-competitive ad tech issues seen as notable, despite being “a classic FTC guy.”
  • Mark Madar’s public repudiation of the Bork/Chicago School antitrust approach signals persistent focus on Big Tech scrutiny at FTC [28:07].

6. Institutional Dynamics & Ideology

• Chair-driven policy vs. Commission-wide consensus (29:56–33:54):

  • Shoshana details how the chair sets the priorities, though dissent is essential for accountability.
  • Describes whiplash from change in priorities between administrations.

  “At least right now it is fully a chair-run ship… A little bit of dissent is better for everyone because it makes your ideas and arguments stronger.”
  —Shoshana Wodinski [30:48]

  • Decision among tech staff to stay after 2024 leadership shift was rooted in commitment to nonpartisan, truth-driven oversight:

  “Frankly, I think it’s our job to uphold the truth.”
  —Shoshana Wodinski [35:37]

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

Standout Quotes

• On privacy regulation in the US:

  “Unlike regions like the EU... we don't have something even approaching a national privacy law. We have a patchwork of different kind of state laws...”
  —Shoshana Wodinski [02:14]

• On Khan’s FTC:

  “The FTC… was able to say, 'We're protecting consumers from privacy-invasive practices that had never been done before.'”
  —Shoshana Wodinski [05:31]

• On policy process pains:

  “...it was like a two-month process to put out what would have been less than a day's work in a newsroom.”
  —Shoshana Wodinski [13:36]

• On tech vs. economics in the agency:

  “The Bureau of Economics... assumed people would behave in a certain way... The Bureau of Consumer Protection, and especially with the Office of Technology, we were figuring out like, no, people don't always act in ways you would expect.”
  —Shoshana Wodinski [11:15]

• On the politicization of FTC inquiries:

  “I was the lead technologist on the case, and they were just like, ‘Hey, tell us if you don’t want to work on this.’... The word that kept being used was censorship. We want to figure out how ad tech companies are censoring conservative publishers. Now you tell me if that's politically motivated.”
  —Shoshana Wodinski [16:56]

• On enforcing privacy in ad tech:

  “That was the first example where the FTC... said, ‘Hey, because Mobilewalla was getting data improperly via real time bidding auctions that they hadn't won.’”
  —Shoshana Wodinski [26:18]

Light Moments

• Meeting Lina Khan:

  “I met, I met the regulatory body kind of. Yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly. And she was like so friendly and nice and I'm just like, yeah, I know who you are. What the hell?”
  —Shoshana Wodinski [06:59]

Timestamps for Important Segments

• Intro & guest background: [01:39–03:19]
• FTC leadership transitions: [04:03–09:22]
• FTC case selection process, role of tech office: [09:22–12:42]
• Intra-agency culture and process: [12:42–15:15]
• Ad tech bias and brand safety investigation: [15:34–19:19]
• Surveillance pricing and 6B studies: [22:28–25:19]
• Mobilewalla enforcement action: [25:45–26:41]
• Antitrust philosophy and future FTC focus: [28:07–28:48]
• How chair vs. commission dynamics play out: [29:56–33:54]

Episode Tone & Takeaways

The episode is candid, insightful, sometimes wry, with Shoshana providing unvarnished reflections on both the substance and the theater of regulatory life. The conversation casts a realistic, sometimes skeptical, but ultimately hopeful light on the FTC’s attempts to keep pace with the ad tech world, even amid bureaucratic inertia and shifting political priorities.

Listeners gain a unique, inside-the-room perspective on the practical challenges of enforcing policy in data-driven markets—and an honest accounting of where both the FTC and the broader regulatory environment succeed, stumble, and recalibrate.