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The Morning Edition
A player suspended, a Pride match bumped: Is the AFL doing more harm than good?
00:18:18
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- [00:01]
A
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- [00:22]
B
This weekend you were meant to be able to watch a special game played between the Sydney Swans and the St Kilda Saints. A pride game in which the players would wear rainbow jerseys and celebrate inclusivity and which would, as the Sydney Swans website once put it, ensure everyone feels safe and welcome at the footy. But for the first time in a decade, because of a recent scandal, it's been scrapped. I'm Samantha Sellinger Morris and you're listening to the Morning edition from the Age and the Sydney Morning Herald. Today special correspondent Stephen Brooke on the role that homophobic slurs play in footy and why the code's attempts at cracking down on them may be backfiring. It's June 3rd and just a heads up, this episode contains offensive language. Welcome, Stephen, to the podcast.
- [01:17]
C
Thank you very much, Samantha.
- [01:19]
B
Okay, well, let's get stuck in because Stephen, in normal circumstances this weekend would mark the AFL's annual Pride Game, but it's been scrapped. Why?
- [01:28]
C
Essentially, this has been a long running game for about 10 years between St Kilda and the Sydney Swans. The short answer is the Sydney Swans said, no, we don't want to play St Kilda. As part of this annual tradition, we would prefer to play another team. And this is because of an incident with a St Kilda player who was playing in the vfl, which is a second tier competition.
- [01:55]
B
A story has emerged today that Lance Collard is being investigated by the AFL Integrity Unit for the use of a homophobic slur. It's alleged the 21 year old called Frankston's Darby Hipwell a homophobic slur. In the VFL clash between Frankston and sin Kilda.
- [02:11]
C
On March 27, he was accused of calling another player an effing faggot. And I realise that is an offensive term to many people, but it is what we are talking about here, so that's why I've said it.
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B
And so tell us why this Lance Collard case, that's the name of the player who's accused of saying this, why it's so significant, like why did it cause such a furor?
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C
So there have been about eight incidents similarly with players who are playing footy in various different levels of the competition. And ordinarily what happens is, is that there's an incident reported, the player will admit that he has used this slur and then they're suspended for on average about four weeks. This case was different because Lance Collard contested the accusation, which two other players from the opposing team had heard. He said he had said maggot and this went to the AFL tribunal, which is where cases or incidents that both sides can't agree on head to. And it is quite a legalistic process. Anyway, long story short, the tribunal originally handed him a nine week ban, seven weeks active, two weeks suspended. St Kilda and Collard insisted this was wrong. It went to appeal. The appeal board then reduced that to four weeks and the head of the appeal board made some comments in his judgment that a lot of people took a great amount of offense.
- [03:58]
B
And Stephen, I wanted to ask you about how damaging slurs can be because you reflected on this damage abuse essentially. Can you just tell me some of your reflections on why these slurs are so damaging?
- [04:10]
C
I think that if you talk to any gay man who had been exposed to bullying in their youth, they would have found the accusation that they are a faggot incredibly shaming. And I think that this is exactly what's been happening on the football field here because it is embarrassing you. You know, your masculinity is being questioned, your sense of self is being questioned. And I think that, you know, as an adult I would not be offended. I could let that ride. But then you have a much surer sense of self in your 30s, 40s and 50s 50s. The people on the football field are not that they are young men, they're in their 20s. And I can quite easily see how that can be used as an attack weapon. I mean we live in such an abusive culture, don't we, online, in print. Politically, everybody feels free to really attack people in really strident terms. But studies have shown the damage from such homophobic slurs are real and not just the sports field, but on the field and elsewhere. It's abusive, right? It's designed to attack your opponent, to get them off guard, off center, bring out feelings of shame. It can lead to depression and anxiety. Studies have shown increased likelihood of self harm because to receive such flee feels terrible. And studies have even shown that in homophobic environments where people are embarrassed, embarrassed because of the culture that has been built up, this such language, because it is shaming for people, can become a huge risk factor in under reporting sexual abuse. The victims feel more ashamed and hence are reluctant to come forward.
- [06:09]
B
And I just wanted to ask you what personal reflection you might have on, on how it feels really to have that sort of slur directed at you. Is it something that you feel in your body? Is it just in your mind? Is it threaten I think it's.
- [06:23]
C
It. Well, I don't think. I know it is all of those things you would have, and you have an instinctive physical reaction because the, you know, the word is so aggressive and threat is a very appropriate word because you're then assessing the threat level. Someone is speaking aggressively towards me. Is that going to be followed by violence? Am I safe? Then you sort of check yourself. But I think that there's broader damage as well, because you then hearing about these incidents, as a fan or even as a player, you may well think, well, is this the sport for me? I don't want to be a spectator here listening to that kind of attack on somebody else. Am I welcome? Am I included here? Or am I just sort of being tolerated with nice platitudes to my face? Where the real attitude of young sports people are the kind of words that have been articulated by Lance Collard and the fact that, you know, the Swans might get a Middle Eastern airline to sponsor them and brush aside the concerns over their laws in their home country, or the AFL hierarchy can go from queer friendly Katy Perry one year to reformed homophobe Snoop Dogg another year. So how much are they really serious about fixing this? I think the deeper question we need to ask ourselves is where are they learning this language? And how effectively is the afl, in trying to police this in tribunals, actually doing the pride cause harm or are they doing the prize cause good? After the break, the Swans and I think some of their supporter groups had clearly decided that a team whose, you know, one of their junior players had been found guilty of using this Slurpee, they were not going to be inclusive enough to invite them. So I thought it was the wrong decision.
- [08:47]
A
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- [09:48]
B
I wanted to ask you, you know, what was your reaction to the Sydney Swans dropping its Pride game against St Kilda? The Swans has said it was to ensure the game had a positive impact. But what about. For what did this decision symbolize to you?
- [10:03]
C
I thought it was, in effect, a cancellation. It was punishment for St Kilda who had stood by their player, rightly or wrongly. It has to be said that the tribunal and the appeals board found that he had used this slur. It is their duty to support their player. I thought it was the wrong decision. I thought it could have been a very powerful, teachable moment. Speaking to the great NRL champion Ian Roberts, who came out in the 1990s and played for Manly and South. Wow. Imagine what he had to endure. And he said to me, stephen, all a Pride round is is. It just means everyone is invited and it is meant to be an inclusive space. The Swans and I think some of their supporter groups had clearly decided that a team whose, you know, one of their junior players had been found guilty of using this slur was. They were not going to be inclusive enough to invite them. So I thought it was the wrong decision. It's complicated and messy and people who think that the AFL is not doing particularly well in this whole area, that's kind of the witness for the prosecution almost, isn't it? It's saying, well, you're inconsistent because you are, you know, Lance Collard is facing these huge punishments, yet Qatar can be sponsoring clubs which have, and they are the national flag carriers of airlines with particularly, you know, strict, what you can say, homophobic attitudes to gay people built into their legal system.
- [11:37]
B
And you made a comment before we started recording about, you know, that this was also, I think, meant to be a celebration of. Of being gay and that that's important and it's fun. So tell us about that.
- [11:50]
C
I think that the AFL is missing out on that. I think that these, you know, some competitions have entire pride rounds. And one of the key benefits is that studies have shown if you have a pride round, the players themselves lessen their use of homophobic slurs because they realize why they're having this round and the damage that can be done. One of my criticisms of the AFL is that it seems to have locked itself into thinking that the way that it can prove that it is tackling these issues properly is in a crime and punishment situation, which is Overshadowing now everything else it is doing in this space. And I just think that is missing some of the joy of being a gay person, being alive. But I would say that about all other aspects of being a human, whether you are a parent or whatever. So the pride round now, which is meant to be the joy and the celebration, has also become a further punishment from St. Kilda, which is what I thought.
- [13:00]
B
And I want to find out from you what this, this case with this player Lance Collard and then the response to the cancellation of the pride match, what it's perhaps exposed, you know, is it revealing to us that wow, the to combating homophobia within the afl, it's more muddled than we perhaps expected or it's more punishment oriented than we perhaps expected. What is it revealed? Because you did write that unfortunately this Lance Collard case, this is far from an isolated incident in the last few years alone.
- [13:32]
C
I think that it is saying that cultural change is needed. We can't actually blame the AFL for these incidents. The players are not learning this. You know, these homophobic slurs from the afl. It is starting much earlier. But also cultural change is a lot more difficult. And you might think that threatening these huge match bans on players who say these words is going to be effective, but it's showing that it's not. Because there's been about eight similar incidents.
- [14:08]
B
And is homophobia getting worse within the afl? Because you, you wrote about a number of incidents in the last few years alone. So is it getting worse or not?
- [14:17]
C
Well, this is the problem we have reduced this whole issue to when very young junior players in some cases are saying these words on the field and we are using that, and the AFL is using that saying, no, we are doing well. Look at us, we are really punishing these guys. How would we know what are the kind of studies that are being done? Have we seen captains, coaches taking leadership of this issue on a club by club basis? It seems to be a problem that there is only one pride game in the whole of the competition each year. And I'm not advocating for there to be some kind of imposed pride matches that are dictated from head office. We've seen the kind of disaster a couple of years ago, the NRL when they tried to make manly players wear pride jerseys which came in conflict with their religious beliefs. There are lots of pride games happening all over the country in different kinds of sports, but it only works when the teams want to do it themselves. That is the players and the leadership. Even in rugby union, even in parts of Melbourne, which have large Pacifica communities such as Endeavour Hills. Their local rugby club has had quite a few of these matches. They're not turned into kind of big marketing events, but I think perhaps they have an authenticity that is really valuable for the local communities. And I think, as I said earlier, Ian, Robert, saying everyone's welcome is a really lovely attitude to have.
- [16:07]
B
And so what reflections, if any, do you have, Stephen, on the fact that this does not seem to be an issue, or not nearly as much, if at all, in women's sports?
- [16:16]
C
Well, it's not an issue in other sports, women's sports. I'm just thinking of the Matildas, who Australia completely embraced with all their indigenous, multicultural, queer players who were really celebrated. One of the absolute star athletes in Australia, Sam Kerr, recently retired from her British football club. I think it was Chelsea. It was a celebratory moment. Her wife was there, their child was there. It was all treated as it passed without comment. Wouldn't it be nice for the male equivalent to be reached? I just think anyone you talk to in this area who both support the AFL or are highly critical of them think that such a moment is years away, if not over the horizon. And that, I think, is a great shame.
- [17:11]
B
Well, I guess I wanted to wrap up by asking you that, which is, you know, we saw former AFL player Mitch Brown. He was the first player to come out. He went public with the fact that he's bisexual last year, and I think a lot of people celebrated his coming out in that way. But like you've just said, there aren't any openly gay current AFL players. What does that say to you?
- [17:31]
C
Oh, we cannot. I think we are actually. Openly gay, I think, is a terrible phrase because it kind of implies that, you know, being gay, the natural state of gays is to be closeted. He's. It's just gay. There are no gay players coming out. Is a process. Sure, the AFL is roundly criticised. Four Corners did an entire episode on this a couple of years ago. But if you look generally in sports that gay players are few and far between, whatever country you want to sort of look at. So there's clearly something culturally, educationally going on that is a lot broader than just the Australian Football League.
- [18:12]
B
Well, Stephen, I'm so glad you've written about this, so thank you so much for your time.
- [18:18]
C
Thank you for having me.
- [18:27]
B
In other news today, Google has applied to the US government for permission to release 32 million mosquitoes across California and Florida in a bid to slash their numbers and curb the diseases they spread, including West Nile virus and dengue fever. Australia's fertility rate is at a record low, putting those who choose not to have children in the center of a political battleground whether they like it or not. And if you want to know what the fertility rate of your suburb is, use our online Search Interactive to find out. You can read more@the age.comau or smh.comau Today's episode was produced by Chee Wong, our executive producer is Tammy Mills, and our podcasts are overseen by Lisa Muxworthy and Tom McKendrick. If you like our show, follow the Morning Edition and leave a review for us on Apple or Spotify. Thanks for listening.