The Morning Edition – Bill Shorten on His Random, Oblique Reference in the Epstein Files

Date: February 5, 2026
Host: Samantha Selinger-Morris
Guests: Bill Shorten (Vice Chancellor, University of Canberra; former Federal Opposition Leader), Paul Sakal (Chief Political Correspondent)

Episode Overview

This episode dives into a recent revelation from the released “Epstein files” that unexpectedly mention Bill Shorten in the context of the 2019 Australian federal election. The discussion unpacks the strange link between convicted sex offender Jeffrey Epstein, far-right political strategist Steve Bannon, Clive Palmer’s massive election campaign spend, and the broader implications for election integrity in Australia. The conversation also pivots to property tax reform and the current state of party politics in Australia, providing sharp commentary and candid personal reflections—particularly from Shorten.

Key Discussion Points and Insights

1. The Epstein Files & Bill Shorten’s Unexpected Mention (00:38–06:29)

• Context of the Reference

  • Shorten is obliquely referenced in newly released Epstein files via a text exchange between Steve Bannon and Epstein after the 2019 election.
  • Bannon boasted to Epstein that he had orchestrated Clive Palmer’s $60 million “anti-China and climate change” advertising blitz, which was detrimental to Labor’s campaign.

• Bill Shorten’s Reaction

  • Shorten expresses astonishment at being indirectly mentioned and the idea of Bannon gloating about influencing Australia’s election outcome:
    • “This is wild. Two days after the 2019 election, old mate Bannon is... taking credit for the election outcome because he said he helped advise Clive Palmer… It was one of the reasons we didn’t win the election. It wasn’t the only one, but wow.” (01:48)

• Clive Palmer’s Contradictory Statements

  • Palmer initially denied contact with Bannon. A day later, he reversed, admitting to a brief 3 a.m. congratulatory call from Bannon.
  • Shorten questions the credibility of Palmer’s account:
    • “If you got a 3am phone call from Steve Bannon, would you forget that? Cause apparently poor old Clive forgot it… More questions here than answers.” (03:38)

2. Foreign Influence & Election Manipulation (06:29–10:26)

• Nature and Impact of Palmer’s Campaign

  • Palmer’s immense advertising spend created waves of misinformation, including fabricated threats about a “Chinese invasion” and false claims about Labor’s policy on abortion.
  • Shorten notes:
    • “There were algorithms and…the alt right were much better organised in the digital world than Labor. We were probably naive about the digital campaign…” (07:54)

• International Parallels and Australian Vulnerability

  • Shorten warns against Australian complacency:
    • “Australians have essentially had a holiday from history… we’ve tended to believe that our distance…the Pacific, the Indian Ocean…somehow what goes on in America…can’t happen here. That is wrong.” (09:06)
  • He emphasizes the need for stronger regulation against misinformation and unchecked big money in politics.

3. Fact vs. Boast: How Much Did Bannon Really Interfere? (11:11–13:16)

• Debating the Reality
  • Paul Sakal suggests Bannon may exaggerate his influence for clout with Epstein.
  • Shorten summarizes:
    • “Bannon says to Epstein, I’m the man I helped with these ads. Palmer says, no, I and Matthias [Cormann] are the men…But it does highlight our vulnerability to big money and vested interests overseas.” (12:06)

4. Pivot to Domestic Policy: Housing and Tax Reform (14:18–22:49)

• Revisiting Labor’s 2019 Property Tax Reforms

  • Shorten defends the logic behind his 2019 capital gains and negative gearing policies, arguing Australia taxes work too heavily and property too lightly:
    • “We have a system in Australia where it favors the acquisition of property and punishes just working hard, which is what 13.5 million people do...” (15:07)
  • He calls for greater intergenerational equity and suggests attitudes—and polling demographics—may have shifted since 2019 to favor reform.

• Coalition and Labor’s Political Calculus

  • Sakal notes the Liberals are unlikely to shift their stance, maintaining defense of property owners, despite internal debate:
    • “The Liberal Party…will take a reflexive opposition to any change to the property tax settings and they'll see this as a new policy debate that will, you know, allow the Liberal Party to cleave back to its natural home protecting the asset class.” (18:55)
  • Shorten reflects on lessons learned:
    • “If you're going to go down the path of tackling property tax reform, property capital taxes, you should hand back that in income tax cuts. Otherwise it just looks like a money grab.” (20:55)

5. State of Australian Party Politics: Coalition Disunity and Populism (22:55–26:23)

• Coalition Turmoil

  • Discussion of the rift between Nationals and Liberals, with historical comparisons to other party splits and speculation about potential long-term impacts.
  • Sakal is skeptical about a lasting separation, predicting a resolution before the next election.

• Rise of Populism and Third Parties

  • Shorten warns against underestimating figures like Pauline Hanson and Barnaby Joyce, noting their resonance with certain voter segments.
    • “Underestimate Pauline Hanson and Barnaby Joyce at your peril.” (24:36)
  • He also cautions that strong government requires a strong opposition, noting:
    • “What Australians want is stability and focus on cost of living…A strong opposition is necessary for a strong government.” (25:02)

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On the Bannon-Palmer-Epstein Triangle:
  “If you got a 3am phone call from Steve Bannon, would you forget that? Cause apparently poor old Clive forgot it… More questions here than answers.” —Bill Shorten (03:38)

• On Election Influence:
  “Australians have essentially had a holiday from history…what goes on in America…can’t happen here. That is wrong.” —Bill Shorten (09:06)

• On Property Tax Policy:
  “We have a system in Australia where it favors the acquisition of property and punishes just working hard.” —Bill Shorten (15:07)

• On the State of the Coalition:
  “If it goes one way, it’s…an extinction level event for the coalition.” —Bill Shorten (25:02)

• On Opposition and Governance:
  “A strong opposition is necessary for a strong government.” —Bill Shorten (25:02)

Key Timestamps

• 00:38 – Introduction of the Epstein files revelation; Bannon-Palmer text explained
• 01:48 – Bill Shorten’s reaction to being named in the files; explanation of Palmer’s campaign
• 03:10 – Palmer’s initial denial and abrupt reversal on Bannon contact
• 06:29 – Digital campaign misinformation and Palmer’s impact on Labor’s loss
• 09:06 – Shorten’s warning about foreign interference and Australia’s political vulnerability
• 14:18 – Shift to tax reform debate, intergenerational equity, and negative gearing
• 18:55 – Reflections on opposition strategy and the likelihood of policy change
• 22:55 – Discussion of current Coalition turmoil, party splits, and rise of populist parties
• 25:02 – Shorten’s comments on the need for effective opposition

Tone & Style

The conversation mixes candid political analysis, wry humor, and a sense of historical perspective. Bill Shorten is frank and engaging, reflecting both on his personal experience and broader democratic risks. The tone is lively yet grounded, shifting seamlessly from political revelations to deeper policy critiques.

This summary covers all the substantive highlights of the episode, equipping those who haven’t listened with a clear understanding of the controversy, its political context, and the broader implications for Australian democracy.