From dust to dust: Is human composting the new way to bury the dead?

Summary

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The Morning Edition (June 21, 2026)

Episode Summary: "From dust to dust: Is human composting the new way to bury the dead?"

Main Theme
This episode explores the emerging practice of human composting as an alternative to burial and cremation, examining how it works, why it’s gaining popularity, and the emotional, environmental, and cultural implications. Host Samantha Selinger-Morris is joined by senior writer Bevan Shields, who shares insights from his reporting, personal stories, and the legal and ethical debates surrounding this third option for saying goodbye.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. What is Human Composting?

• Description & Process
  • Human composting, also known as natural organic reduction, is described as placing a body in a steel vessel on a bed of organics (e.g. hay, straw, wood chips). The vessel is heated to 55-70°C for at least three days, then left for 2-3 months to fully decompose. Bones are crushed and mixed back in, resulting in a large amount of nutrient-rich soil.
  • "It is. You know, for so long, we have really only had two options, burial or cremation. This is a third option that has emerged..." — Bevan Shields [02:06]
• Scale of Outcome
  • The end product is substantial: often described as a trailer-load of soil.
  • "It's basically a trailer load full of soil...so this is not a small little urn of soil. It is a lot." — Bevan Shields [03:39]

2. Why Are People Choosing This?

• Environmental Reasons
  • Composting is seen as a way to reduce the carbon footprint and avoid energy-intensive cremations and environmentally problematic burials.
  • Example: Cremation uses enough gas to power a single household for a month per body; American burial stats cited include 30 million board feet of timber yearly for coffins.
  • "Cremation...is not great for the environment. It uses a huge amount of energy....The funeral industry is a small component. I'm not saying it's the end of the world, but this is a factor for some people..." — Bevan Shields [04:22]
• Personal & Spiritual Motives
  • Many feel comforted by becoming one with the earth in a literal sense; grieving processes can feel more meaningful and drawn out.
  • The delayed handover of the person’s remains (as soil) offers extra grieving time.
  • Family involvement: Visits to the vessel, participation in adding personal items to the organics, etc.
  • "That two or three month window just gave people a bit of time and space to grieve before then making the decision about what to do..." — Bevan Shields [06:45]

3. How Are Families Using the Soil?

• Personal Gardening Tributes
  • Example: Wayne Dodge, a Seattle physician and avid gardener. After composting, his friends and family each took soil and a maple tree to plant in their gardens.
  • "All of Wayne's gardening friends and friends came along and they got a bucket each. They took a bucket of the soil...and they took it off to their own yards." — Bevan Shields [08:38]
  • "Every time I go out and garden, I say hello to him. It was a beautiful process. It was beautiful." — Marie, Wayne’s sister [09:14]
• Broader Environmental Applications
  • Some choose to donate the soil for ecological restoration, such as reforestation projects or land regeneration (e.g., near Mount St. Helens).
• No Hard-and-Fast Rules
  • Safe, nutrient-rich, and comparable to how we already use organic matter; the only exclusion is for those with high-level infectious diseases.

4. Historical and Spiritual Perspectives

• “From Dust to Dust”
  • Although some may be uncomfortable, others see composting as a return to the earth — a deeply spiritual process.
• Cultural Parallels
  • At a biological level, the decomposition process is similar to what’s been done on farms for centuries with animal remains.
  • Katrina Spade, the process pioneer, asserts that despite technological sophistication, the underlying idea is old and natural.
  • "...this is...At one level, there's a sophistication...But fundamentally it's kind of an old process." — Bevan Shields, paraphrasing Katrina Spade [11:20]

5. Controversy and Opposition

• Religious Tensions
  • The Catholic Church has voiced its opposition, arguing composting isn't respectful for human bodies, which are “vessels of the soul."
    • "Composting was more appropriate for vegetable trimmings and eggshells than human bodies. They said, human bodies are not household waste. They're vessels of the soul." — Bevan Shields [17:09]
  • The church also has specific restrictions around cremation, preferring ashes to be kept together and interred appropriately.
  • Some priests, however, have blessed bodies and remains before and after composting, showing some flexibility in practice.
• Psychological Barriers
  • There's a strong “ick factor” or initial shock, but understanding the process often leads to greater comfort or even interest.
  • Social reluctance to discuss death in general, and industry norms, are cited as barriers to faster adoption.

6. Legislative Developments

• Current Legal Status
  • Legal only in Germany and 14 US states as of the episode’s airing.
• Australian Progress
  • NSW MP Alex Greenwich is set to introduce a bill to legalize it in New South Wales, potentially making it available by 2027.
  • "He’s going to introduce [the bill]...I think once it’s legislated in New South Wales, there will be other states that, that jump on that..." — Bevan Shields [15:40]

7. Will Australians Embrace Composting?

• Mixed Reactions Expected
  • Cultural openness varies — some are intrigued, others repelled (even in the medical community). Host Samantha admits to surprise despite her extensive experience with death.
  • "I am not shy about death...and yet I gasped when I read your story." — Samantha Selinger-Morris [19:45]
• Demystifying with Humor & Language
  • The “hotel for the dead” phrase from Katrina Spade is cited as making the process feel less intimidating.
  • Advocacy groups hope the discussion normalizes talking about death and empowers choice.
  • "One of the best things that comes from this discussion...is that people talk a bit more about death." — Bevan Shields [20:43]

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On the profound impact on grief:
  "She didn’t have to say goodbye to him. He was always there with her in her own house, a space where she felt comfortable. And that really, really meant a lot for her." — Bevan Shields on Marie and her brother Wayne’s soil [09:24]
• On spirituality and comfort:
  "This process gave them a lot of comfort after her death at 32." — Bevan Shields, on Todd Hay and his daughter [12:23]
• On the Catholic Church’s stance:
  "Composting was more appropriate for vegetable trimmings and eggshells than human bodies. They said human bodies are not household waste. They're vessels of the soul." — Bevan Shields [17:09]
• On community reaction:
  "They were horrified. They. They were absolutely horrified. Then I've spoken to some other people who I thought might really not like this...and have gone off and done their own research and come back to me...and said, I think I want to do this." — Bevan Shields [21:30]

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• [02:06] — What is human composting and how does it work?
• [04:22] — Why are people choosing human composting?
• [07:45] — Personal story: Wayne Dodge’s family and gardening legacy
• [12:15] — Spiritual resonances: "from dust to dust"
• [14:38] — Political push for legalization in New South Wales (Alex Greenwich)
• [16:42] — Opposition from the Catholic Church, global perspective
• [19:45] — Australian attitudes and the “ick factor”
• [20:43] — The importance of talking more openly about death

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Conclusion & Tone

The episode’s tone is thoughtful, occasionally humorous, and always respectful. The hosts and guests approach the topic with open-minded curiosity rather than sensationalism or judgment, seeking to inform and provoke reflection about death, tradition, ecological responsibility, and choice.

Final Takeaway:
Human composting is a new, yet very old, method of dealing with death that offers practical, environmental, and deeply personal benefits. As Bevan Shields notes:
"It’s a fascinating new player in the overall death space." [21:58]

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Use this summary for a comprehensive understanding of the episode, including process details, cultural context, and personal stories touching on grief, spirituality, and environmental impact.

Transcript

[Podcast Sponsor Host]

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[Samantha Salinger Morris]

For decades now, if a loved one died, there were two choices, burial or cremation. But soon, Australians may get a third choice for how they choose to farewell their loved ones, thanks to a growing trend overseas. I'm Samantha Salinger Morris, and you're listening to the Morning Edition from the Age and Sydney Morning Herald. Today, senior writer Bevan Shields on human composting, a method of burial that may give you the ick, but that is giving many others profound peace of mind. It's June 22nd. Bevan, welcome back to the podcast.

[Bevan Shields]

Always a pleasure to talk to you.

[Samantha Salinger Morris]

Okay, Bevan, we've got to get into this because there's a growing trend overseas in human burial, and this is human composting. Now, is it like it says? Is it like it sounds?

[Bevan Shields]

It is. You know, for so long, we have really only had two options, burial or cremation. This is a third option that has emerged in the US And Germany. And as you say, it's growing in popularity and it's exactly as it sounds. So when I've been talking to people about this story for the last past few weeks, the initial instinct is yes. Oh, do you mean, do you mean human composting? Is that what you're actually talking about? Composting bodies? And the answer is yes. Usually the initial response is, what? And then after a little while of explaining how it works, people do get their head around it and it makes sense. So in its simplest terms, what happens is a body is placed in what's called a vessel. It's a Large steel tube. It's placed on a bed of organic materials, so hay, straw, lucent, wood chips, and it's sealed. In the vessel, heat is turned up to between 55 and 70 degrees for three days minimum, sometimes longer. And, and then over the next two months, the body slowly breaks down and composts. Air is pushed into the vessel. Air goes out and is treated and released. The vessels in some providers are turned 360 degrees once a week to aid in the composting process. Others rock them from side to side so there's some movement. And then at the end of that time, really all that's left are bones. And the bones are then crushed up in the same way as occurs in cremation and put back into the mixture. It then cures for several more weeks. And at the end of this process, usually two or three months, you have a lot of soil. And I've been speaking to people who have had family members go through this process and they've all been amazed by actually how much soil there is at the end of this. It's basically a trailer load full of soil. Yeah, between the body and the organic material that's placed in the vessel. So this is not a small little urn of soil. It is a lot.

[Samantha Salinger Morris]

Okay, well, let's get into the people who are choosing to do this because you have spoken to a number of them. So why are people choosing this?

[Bevan Shields]

There are lots of different reasons. Environmental is one. There is something that resonates with these people about being returned to the earth. Depending on your perspective on this thing, a lot of people have a perspective that we're basically organic matter. That's all we are. We came from the earth, you're returned to the earth. So there's that theory. There's also a climate and emissions element to this. So cremation, even though it's wildly popular, it's nearly 75% of the market in Sydney at the moment, if I can use that term. It's not great for the environment. It uses a huge amount of energy. One cremation uses enough gas to power a single person household for a month. That's just one cremation. Now, I'm not making any judgment on people who are having cremation. That's fine. But it is a, it's fairly carbon intensive process. There is also some environmental drawbacks of burials. If embalming fluid is used, that's not great for the environment. Huge, huge amount of wood is used for coffins every year. So in America, for instance, there aren't really any Australian statistics for this? Unfortunately, but in America, each year there needs to be 30 million board feet. And a board feet is basically a piece of timber one foot long and wide and one inch deep of hardwood to make the coffins. Then there's 1.6 million tons of concretes that make up vaults and 90,000 tons of steel for caskets. So again, look, in the broader scheme of emissions, the funeral industry is a small component. I'm not saying it's the end of the world, but this is a factor for some people that they're very conscious of. Another really interesting element, and we can talk about some of these examples later, is there's a grieving element to this and that is that unlike a burial or a cremation, you know, you have a death, a funeral and burial or cremation in very short succession. It's a lot, it's a lot for everyone to deal with, often in the space of a week or two. The big difference with human composting is it takes two to three months. So there's this gap between a funeral saying goodbye and then being handed the soil back. And we'll talk about what, what the soil is often used for. But the people I've spoken to have said that window, that time has given them more time to grieve, to process what has happened, to really think and plan what they're going to do with this soil than they would have otherwise had if, you know, they rushed straight into a burial or cremation. In some cases in the U.S. family members are able to go to the site and to visit the vessel as it is slowly turning and the composting is happening. I've seen photos of pitchers being placed on the outside of it. Someone told me the other day that husband of a woman who was being composted would usually go once a day and have a cup of tea there each day. And again, that two or three month window just gave people a bit of time and space to grieve before then making the decision about what to do with, with the material.

[Samantha Salinger Morris]

Well, let's talk about what people are doing with it because one of the really fascinating anecdotes you got was of a person who used their loved ones remains for gardening.

[Bevan Shields]

So tell us about it.

[Samantha Salinger Morris]

That's incredible.

[Bevan Shields]

This is the case of a man named Wayne Dodge, who was a Seattle physician and lifelong gardener, mad gardener. He was absolutely obsessed with Japanese maple trees. He had about 50 of them in his backyar. He had a big gardening network in Seattle. He died in 2020. One from complications, the result of a really severe spinal injury. He absolutely wanted to be composted. He went through that process. And I spoke to Wayne. Sister Marie.

[Marie (Wayne Dodge's Sister)]

It's lovely, even though it's, you know, the process itself is kind of industrial because they put the body in a container and you layer in natural organic material with it. Wayne had granddaughters. They gathered wildflowers. We were able to bring the wildflowers and have them lay in with him. And so they made it very personal.

[Bevan Shields]

And basically at the end of the process, they turned up with kind of a pickup truck. They had the soil loaded into it, they drove back to the house, and all of Wayne's gardening friends and friends came along and they got a bucket each. They took a bucket of the soil. They took one of the 50 maple trees that was in his backyard, and they took it off to their own yards and either put it in the maple trees or put it in their own garden. And Marie, I spoke to Marie. She was so thoughtful and emotional about what having some of Wayne in her own backyard meant to her.

[Marie (Wayne Dodge's Sister)]

And I brought some here and so. And then I put them in my garden. So every time I go out and garden, I say hello to him. It was a beautiful process. It was beautiful.

[Bevan Shields]

She said it meant that, you know, she. She didn't have to say goodbye to him. He was always there with her in her own house, a space where she felt comfortable. And that really, really meant a lot for. For her. So that's one example and there are a lot of others. On the whole, families are picking up the material, taking it to spread on a tree, sharing it amongst themselves if. If they don't want to do that. Another option is that some of these providers who are doing the composting have arrangements with parks and land care regeneration projects where the soil can go. To that case, I saw one example of where the soil was spread around Mount St. Helens, which was the volcano that erupted a couple of decades ago and devastated the region and the natural wilderness, and the soil ended up there. So lots of different uses with this.

[Samantha Salinger Morris]

But I guess you could pair your loved ones composted remains with something they love, right? Like with the gardening. Like, are people scattering the compost in the ocean? Is that legal? I don't know.

[Marie (Wayne Dodge's Sister)]

Look.

[Bevan Shields]

Well, in the same way as cremation, there aren't really any hard and fast rules around this. Well, we'll come to the Catholic Church, but cremation is. There's lots of different ways that people use cremated remains. And in some ways, this is no different. The soil is very, is very nutrient rich. It's safe. There are some safeguards around. People who have very high level infectious diseases can't go through this process. But the soil is, you know, once you get over the initial kind of this was once a person, the material itself is actually safe, nutrient rich and very good for where it's used.

[Samantha Salinger Morris]

And presumably the soil we engage with in other, like if gardeners, I mean, presumably there's all kinds of matter. Right. Like organic matter, animal.

[Bevan Shields]

And in some ways this has been happening to a, to a less sophisticated degree on farms for decades.

[GoFundMe User / Interviewee]

Yeah.

[Podcast Sponsor Host]

Right.

[Bevan Shields]

Where there are animals that are, you know, they're not buried, they're put with other material and they slowly break down. So I don't want to compare people to animals, but it's a biological level. Yeah. And so I spoke to Katrina Spade, who really pioneered this technology, this process in Washington State, and she said something that really stuck with me. She said, this is. At one level, there's a sophistication to this in terms of the technology that's used. But fundamentally it's kind of an old process. It's kind of something we have done for a long time and it's a tried and tested technique. So it's a fascinating. When you actually dig into the details of the process, it's absolutely fascinating. But when you actually talk to people involved who have been involved in this, people who provide the service or have been through it, there is a deep, almost spirituality.

[Samantha Salinger Morris]

I was just about to ask because I imagine certain members of the church, and we will get to this, might feel very differently, but it kind of has that from dust to dust quality, right?

[Bevan Shields]

Absolutely, absolutely. I also spoke to a man called Todd Hay from Florida. His daughter Morgan died of cervical cancer when she was 32. And he felt very much the same. She was very connected to the earth, to nature. So was he. And they felt really comforted knowing that she was being returned to the earth. That was their belief, that was their, that was their spirituality, if you like. And this process gave them a lot of comfort after her death at 32. After the break, the New York Catholic Conference, which kind of represents the bishops of New York, was very unhappy. They said composting was more appropriate for vegetable trimmings and eggshells than human bodies.

[GoFundMe Narrator]

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[Samantha Salinger Morris]

and this is really timely now because as you've just written, New South Wales MP Alex Greenwich, he is going to be introducing a bill to legalize human composting in New South Wales, at least on Thursday, with a view to this method of burial becoming available possibly in 2027, I believe. So tell us about this push of his. You know, why is he championing this?

[Bevan Shields]

Alex was approached nearly a year ago by a woman called Teresa Russell, who has been interested in this for quite a while. She runs an organization called Earthly Legacy. She came to Alex and said, I reckon you're the guy to get this through Parliament. Alex is quite clever at negotiating legislation with the government. He's on the crossbench. He gets along well with nearly everyone in the Parliament. And her instincts were right. Alex, after an initial kind of.

[GoFundMe User / Interviewee]

Whoa.

[Bevan Shields]

What the. What is this? Got his head around it, investigated it, actually went and looked at some of these facilities in America and has been working on legislation for the better part of a year. He's going to introduce it. The government hasn't said yet that they will absolutely do it, but my very strong sense is I think they will. And once it's legalised in New South Wales, it'll take a while for the system to get up and running and for the regulations to be. To be put around it. But I think once it's legislated in New South Wales, there will be other states that, that jump on that reasonably quickly as well.

[Samantha Salinger Morris]

Okay, interesting. But I wanted to ask you about this because we've gone through a lot of reasons why many people champion this method of burial overseas, of course, but it's currently only legal, if I understand your piece correctly, in Germany and in 14American states. So why is that?

[Bevan Shields]

Because of the. What Factor. And to some degree, and this is judgment term in somewhat the ick factor around this. Like, it's. It's a weird thing when you. If you've never heard about it. But there is a bigger thing that we just. We just don't like talking about death generally as a society, we don't like talking about it. There's not a lot of benefit for a politician to talk about death. I think that is a factor. I think the dominance of some players in the funeral industry, you know, the dominance of burial and cremation as the primary form of disposing of bodies hasn't really been challenged before. Another factor is the Catholic Church.

[Samantha Salinger Morris]

Well, let's get into this. How much do they oppose this overseas? How much opposition might we see here?

[Bevan Shields]

Look, they have not gone to war over this in the same way. They have some other issues, but they don't like it. So there's sort of a middle ground there. Yes, they're certainly not. This is kind of make or break for us, but they have absolutely expressed their opposition to it. When it was going through the process of legalization in New York, the New York Catholic Conference, which kind of represents the bishops of New York, was very unhappy.

[Samantha Salinger Morris]

They said, this is quite the quote.

[Bevan Shields]

Composting was more appropriate for vegetable trimmings and eggshells than human bodies. They said, human bodies are not household waste. They're vessels of the soul. Fundamentally, the church doesn't like or believes that composting prevents a person from rising again. Now, as I say, the church didn't really ultimately have a lot of sway here. It was legalized in New York, but they weren't. They weren't thrilled about it. It is worth pointing out that the chur isn't entirely thrilled about cremation.

[Samantha Salinger Morris]

I was going to say, do they oppose cremation?

[Bevan Shields]

Well, they don't oppose it, but they oppose it in certain circumstances. And I think this would be a surprise to a lot of people. The church only really likes or endorses cremation. And this came from a Vatican directive about 10 years ago. They only really endorse cremation provided the ashes remain together. They're not spread around. They're not scattered in air or ocean. They have to be interred in one place and in a particular place, a burial ground or somewhere near the church, not sitting in your hallway cupboard. So, you know, I guess that gives you a sense that the church also has views on cremation, but they also are involved in the business of cremation. So, you know, they can they can kind of walk both lines where they're not thrilled about it, but they can be part of it. And Katrina Spade from Recompose told me that they have had Catholic priests and others come and bless women bodies before they go through the composting process, bless the remains. So it's not as though they stay a million miles away from it.

[Samantha Salinger Morris]

Some maybe would, but not others.

[Bevan Shields]

And look, we need to see what will happen with the church in New South Wales. It may well be the same. They may not want to buy into it. They may sort of say, we're not really. We don't really love this. But I would be surprised if they launched a massive offensive against it either.

[Samantha Salinger Morris]

Yeah, I mean, I guess I'll wait and see. But I wanted to ask you, culturally, in Australia, do you think Australians will embrace this form of burial? Because I'm just wondering whether people have to be particularly open minded. Because I, I know, Bevan, you and I have spoken about this outside of recording. I am, no, I am not shy about death. I've literally buried both my parents, thrown soil on their coffins, was there with them when they died, and yet I gasped when I read your story. I was quite surprised I did. And I'm just wondering, I was thinking about how you mentioned Recompose founder Katrina Spade, who, like you said, she pioneered human composting a decade ago and she light heartedly refers to her vessels which contain the composted human material as, quote, hotels for the dead. And I just wondered, like, do we need to be as open minded and you know, as her to embrace this? And by the way, I'm not against it at all. I'm fascinated. But I was surprised even. I was like, oh, my God, I

[Bevan Shields]

think you need to. As I said, I think the initial response from a lot of people is, is that what I think it is? And then what? And then it's about the details. And the details actually aren't that complicated. No, but I think once people understand how this works, I think once people understand that this is not about saying you can't be buried or cremated, this is about another option. It's just another option in the overall mix available to you.

[Samantha Salinger Morris]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Bevan Shields]

I think people are pretty relaxed about it. But there is a. There is a kind of black humor element to this as well. And, you know, the Hotel for the

[Samantha Salinger Morris]

dead, I'm not gonna lie, I sort of liked that. I don't know why. I guess because it almost makes it friendly.

[Bevan Shields]

Yeah.

[Samantha Salinger Morris]

I mean, that might sound crazy, but it's it's not a scary language.

[Bevan Shields]

Well, Teresa Russell, who I mentioned earlier, from Earthly Legacy, who's been working on this with Alex Greenwich, she said she hopes one of the best things that comes from this discussion that we're about to have is that, that people talk a bit more about death. As I say, it is a. It's something we don't like to think about or talk about, even though we're all going to experience it. You know, we're all going to die. We're all going to have family members and friends who die. This might open that discussion up a little bit more, which, which would probably be a good thing. And look, each to their own. Some people will go, totally, absolutely not. I spoke to, funnily enough, I spoke to someone who's in the medical industry, I'll put it that way, earlier this week, and I told them I was working on this story. And I kind of thought, if you're in medicine, you've seen and you've seen everything.

[GoFundMe User / Interviewee]

Yeah, yeah.

[Bevan Shields]

They were horrified. They. They were absolutely horrified. Then I've spoken to some other people who I thought might really not like this or kind of get the ick from it, and they've been completely fascinated by it and have gone off and done their own research and come back to me in the last couple of days and said, I think I want to do this.

[Samantha Salinger Morris]

Yeah.

[Bevan Shields]

So let's see where. Let's see where it goes. But it's a fascinating new player in the overall. It really is deaf space.

[Samantha Salinger Morris]

Well, it's fascinating and it's profound, so thank you so much, Bevan.

[Bevan Shields]

Good to talk.

[Samantha Salinger Morris]

Today's episode was produced by Josh Towers, our executive. Our executive producer is Tammy Mills, and our podcasts are overseen by Lisa Muxworthy and Tom McKendrick. If you like our show, follow the Morning Edition and leave a review for us on Apple or Spotify. Thanks for listening.