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- [00:04]
A
For years, the Duke and Duchess of Sussex, Prince Harry and Meghan have been tanking in popularity. Meghan is now the second most disliked royal, beaten only by the disgraced Andrew Mountbatten Windsor. So why this faux royal tour down under now when the British monarchy is arguably on the nose? I'm Samantha Selinger Morris, and you're listening to the Morning Edition from the Age and the Sydney Morning Herald. Today, senior writer Bevan Shields on the recent bullying accusations against Prince Harry, what they're doing here this week and how much they're charging us for the pleasure. It's April 14th. Welcome, Bevan, back to the podcast.
- [00:46]
B
Thank you for having me. Again.
- [00:47]
A
Okay, let's kick off because Harry and Meghan's official tour starts in Melbourne today, and surely you could not pick a worse time for a tour connected with the British Foyle family.
- [00:58]
B
Right, well, there's a bit going on. There is a small scandal I'm sure listeners have heard about involving Harry's uncle, Andrew Mountbatten Windsor, who's in all sorts of strife. But there is also, you know, a lot of other things going on that make this a little bit weird. We've got a huge crisis, global crisis in the war in Iran. Cost of living is already a big issue in the UK and Australia, only exacerbated by the war. And we also now have the news that Harry is being sued by a charity that he set up in 2006 in honour of his mother, Princess Diana.
- [01:42]
A
Just days out from arriving in Australia, Prince Harry has some fresh legal woes, being sued for defamation by a charity he co founded. He claims he orchestrated a campaign against it after resigning last year. Relationship now so damaged, it's descended into a legal battle.
- [02:01]
B
There's been a massive brawl between him and the people who've been running the charity. It's now spilled out into the public arena. Let's see where this goes. It may not. May be a bit of a flash in the pan, but again, he's back in the news and we've got this collision of all these things going on that does make it a really weird and awkward time for them to be flying to Australia to dispense their, you know, brand of wisdom to Australians such that it is.
- [02:28]
A
Okay, so why in God's name are they here? Why? Why are they here and why are they here now?
- [02:33]
B
Well, if you asked them, they would say because we're such wonderful people and we're here to, you know, make everyone feel good and talk to charities that align with our values. If you ask Me and other cynical people like me. This is about money and reputation. So, yes, they are doing some visits to children's hospitals and mental health charities and things like that while they're here. There aren't a lot of those, to be honest. And they're very stage managed. They're very closely managed. But what this really is about is money.
- [03:05]
A
Okay, well, let's get into the personal rehabilitation in terms of the reputation first, perhaps, because the money's gonna go on for a while, Bevin. So first of all, why do they need reputational rehabilitation? Because I don't think I realized just how unpopular they are. I mean, I knew they were on the nose, but until I read your column, I didn't realize just how bad. So walk us through it.
- [03:25]
B
Well, to put it in context of just how bad Meghan is the second least like member of the royal family, only Andrew Mountbatten Windsor is more unpopular than her.
- [03:36]
A
Let's just take a moment for that. Cause that is astounding.
- [03:38]
B
Yeah. So there's A pollster called YouGov that for many, many years has recorded public sentiment towards the royal family. And it's absolutely fascinating to see how it bounces around and reflects the times. Who's doing well, who's not doing well. And while they're very. Harry and Meghan are very unpopular now, that was not always the way. And in fact, after their last visit to Australia in 2018, when they were working members of the royal family, their popularity was huge. So after that tour, Harry actually went back to the UK as the most popular member of the royal family. He eclipsed William, he eclipsed Kate, he eclipsed the Queen who was alive at that point. He has now completely crashed. 60% of people have an unfavourable view of him now, and 66% have an unfavourable view of Meghan. So they are, you know, the public is absolutely off them. This is not a case of, you know, it's polarised. And there's sort of 50, 50, half of people love them, half of people can't stand them. There is a very, very strong sentiment against them. And why this matters for them is their popularity is directly tied to the amount of money that they will be able to make. If they're as, you know, if they are toxic, big companies are not going to want to do business with them. So there is a dual element here in my view, around this visit. One is around making a little bit of money while they're here at various events where they'll command a fee and then Also, it's about boosting, enhancing their reputation so that they can keep making deals.
- [05:13]
A
Okay, well, let's get into the money then, because, boy, you did not mince your words when you wrote in your most recent column about what a money maker this could be for them. You said, and I quote, forget interest rate hikes, skyrocketing fuel prices and stubborn inflation. Harry and Meghan are landing in Australia and happy to help relieve us of all that spare cash they believe we're carrying. So break it down for us. How much money might they make while they're here?
- [05:39]
B
Well, like all things Harry and Meghan, it's covered in a little bit of mystery. They don't speak openly about this, so we do have to rely a little bit on some informed speculation. What we do know is an event, a women's retreat, that Meghan is headlining in Sydney on the weekend. Tickets there cost $2,700 each. If you want the privilege of having a group photo with her on your table, you cough up another 500 bucks and you get that wonderful experience. So that's a sense of the kind of money Harry is doing. An event in Melbourne that is a for profit event, but some of the money goes towards Lifeline. There is a lot of talk that he's getting tens of thousands of dollars for that appearance. Now, Harry has talked a lot about mental health and I think he's actually quite genuine about his commitment to mental health.
- [06:28]
A
Yeah, yeah, he's been quite open.
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B
Right.
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A
He spoke about EMD using EMDR for
- [06:32]
B
post, but all of that makes it a little bit hard to swallow that he could be talking to an event about mental health and asking for money for that. So they will probably get, you know, between them, two, $300,000 out of this trip potentially. But as I say, I think this is also about reputation restoration. And the better this trip goes off, the better they look, the more likely organisations, companies will be to do business with them.
- [07:02]
A
Okay, well, we're going to get into why they need reputational rehab in just a little bit. But first I just want to ask you, I mean, is this gouging that they might be doing financially, Is this unprecedented for previous royal visits? I mean, would Queen Elizabeth II be rolling over in her grave right about now?
- [07:17]
B
Well, she certainly didn't headline a women's retreat, $2,700 a ticket while she was here. This is what makes this so weird. They are trying to pass this off as a de facto royal visit and it is not. It is not. Yep, sure, they're going to do some. They're going to do some charity visits while they're here, but it is not a royal visit. This is really unprecedented territory and I am just not convinced. I think Australians, to the, you know, to the annoyance of Republicans and the republican movement in Australia, Australians are largely sympathetic to the Royal Family and the monarchy. We're very interested in them. There's no sign at all in the distant future that we are going to ditch them. But I am not convinced that this business model that Harry and Meghan have created is going to fly in Australia. I think that's where Australians will draw the line and go, well, look, we're happy for royals to come here and do what they've always done, but if you come here and try and, you know, fleece yourself some money, that's where we draw the line. And that's. And I think it will go down very poorly when people realize the actual business model underlying this visit.
- [08:28]
A
So do we prefer the royals of Queen Elizabeth ii? You know, the woman who famously, I think, accepted ration coupons from members of the public to buy, I think, her wedding dress. Cause I believe it was around wartime. Is that what we want in our royals?
- [08:40]
B
People want a bit of authenticity and I don't think you could use that word to describe these two. They also want access. They want to be able to go to the opera house forecourt, as happened last time when Harry and Meghan were here, and be able to try and shake their hand and meet them. That is not what is happening this time. This time it's all behind closed doors. Every charity visit is very tightly managed. There's a thing called a media pool, which is a very small group of journalists who are picked to cover it. And then all other media organisations, you know, use that, use what they have gathered. And then the other events, as we've discussed, you have to cough up an absolute stack of cash to get in the door to hear them. So there is no public access to these two during this trip. And look, I also wonder whether, you know, given everything that has happened with them, where their popularity is, even if they walk down George street tomorrow in Sydney or, you know, Bourke Street Mall in Melbourne, would there be a flock of people come out to see them? I'm actually not sure, given how toxic they are.
- [09:45]
A
And would they perhaps be heckled like King Charles was not that long ago?
- [09:50]
B
That's a big risk. And they always, all members of the Royal family, try and avoid that. Everything is fairly tightly managed. It happens every now and then. But they would be very, as a brand conscious couple in a world of social media where moments like that can go viral and go crazy, they would be very conscious of that.
- [10:08]
A
Well, have the events actually sold out? Like, have tickets sold well? And do you think the public's actually aware of just how state managed this is and how actually they might be selling it as World Visit, but actually it isn't Royal Visit and there isn't gonna be that access. Do you think people know that?
- [10:23]
B
Look, I don't. Purely for the reason that this is a busy time and a very difficult time for a lot of people. They're trying to afford petrol, supermarket bills, energy bills, all of that stuff. I think now that they've actually landed in Australia, their little, you know, faux tour is underway. I think people will engage a little bit more and will be understanding what this is about in terms of the ticket sales. There are still tickets available for both events, the Meghan event in Sydney and Harry's mental health talk in Melbourne. That doesn't bode well for the organisers and as I say, does possibly speak to where their popularity and their sort of their pulling power is at the moment. And look, as I wrote in the piece, if people, I don't know, criticise people who want to go and hear from them, that's fine. If you want to wait, it sounds
- [11:13]
A
like you are, though, because it sounds like you're saying they completely lack authenticity and they're trying to mug us.
- [11:19]
B
Harry and Meghan. Yes. But if people want to make a decision to cough up their own cash and to go and do this, good luck to them. It's a free country. They can do what they want. I don't think they're going to get a lot from it, but they're more than entitled to. My issue is that this new business model that they have created is not going to fly in Australia. And while they might have few hundred, couple of thousand people go and hear them speak and pay money for that and potentially enjoy it, there will be many, many more people that this just goes down like a lead balloon with.
- [11:56]
A
After the break.
- [11:58]
B
The reason for their plunge in the public's perception of them is because of the decisions that they have made since that split, because of the business model they've created. And I just think there is this feeling that people can't shake that Harry and Meghan are all about Harry and Meghan.
- [12:25]
A
Okay, well, you just mentioned their. Their money model and I want to ask you a bit about that because you had an incredible line in your piece how else they make their money, because it isn't just what they're doing on this tour, of course. And you mentioned that they had struck a $20 million podcast deal with Spotify, but the arrangement imploded after Megan delivered just 12 episodes. And this is the kicker. Spotify's head of podcast innovation and monetization, Bill Simmons, later said he wished he had made a podcast series about the ex royals titled the Grifters. So tell us, I guess, about, yeah. How they're making their money.
- [13:00]
B
Some of these figures are eye watering. I think there is a perception that they're really hard up. You know, they don't have a lot of money. They have a stack of cash still. Now, some of these deals, as you referenced with Spotify, have not gone to plan. Others have. So here's a couple of examples. They struck a multi year deal with Netflix. There's been talk that maybe that deal has not been going so well. Some of the projects have done well, others have flopped.
- [13:28]
A
And that was a reported $100 million multi year deal.
- [13:31]
B
Exact. So that's US dollars. So that is a huge, huge amount of money. There's also the 20 million Spotify deal. Harry got about 20 million US as an advance for his book Spare, which actually sold very well. So he would have done well out of that. The then Prince Charles, now King Charles, gave them some cash when they separated to help with the transition. And what is not known is that widely known is that Princess Diana left Harry several million dollars in her will. And the Queen Mother, when she died, had set up a trust so that when her grandkids at that time turned 40, they would get some money out of that. And it's reported that he, that Harry got £8 million from that trust when he turned 40 a couple of years ago. So this is big money, you know. So again, you know, when people in Australia are struggling with cost of living right now, I just don't think there's going to be a lot of sympathy for Harry and Meghan's grifting.
- [14:35]
A
Okay, so does that partly explain their absolute tanking in popularity from their last visit in 2018 to now? Is it that they're seen as grifters? Is it that they're seen as tone deaf and entitled? Like, why do you think they are so reviled by so many people?
- [14:52]
B
Again, if you could ask them, and people have, in interviews, they would say the answer lies in racism and sexism. And I think that explains some things, a small number of things. It does not explain everything. I think the reason they're so unpopular is because of the choices that they have made. I don't think even the act itself of leaving the Royal family in January 2020 was enough to cause the dip in popularity. I think people were prepared to give them a go and see how that would work out. The reason for their plunge in the public's perception of them is because of the decisions that they have made since that split, because of the business model they've created. And I just think there is this feeling that people can't shake that Harry and Meghan are all about Harry and Meghan. And people do not respond well to that when they are trying to say, well, no, no, no, that's not true. We care about this charity and that charity and this cause and that cause. If people fundamentally can't shake this vibe that these two are in it for themselves and that's it, that is a very hard thing to overcome.
- [16:07]
A
And so what are the chances that this visit will help repair the reputation of the royals? After, of course, Andrew Mountbatten Windsor's extraordinary fall from grace. And obviously that's still to be played out, right? I mean, he's still being investigated, as I understand it. Charges haven't been laid, so things could get worse, of course.
- [16:24]
B
Definitely. I don't think it will have any impact at all. And while Andrew needs all the help he can get, there are other members of the Royal Family who, despite what's happening with Harry and Meghan, despite what's happening with Andrew, are actually sky high in the popularity rankings. Like, William and Kate, can do nothing wrong. And when you look at their. When you look at how YouGov has tracked their approval ratings, it hasn't blipped, it hasn't gone up or down. It has just stayed sky high for the last five or six years. They can do no wrong. King Charles, there is a lot of affection for him at the moment. I think he seems to be doing a very good job. The public feels the same. He's very human. He seems to be extremely personable and more in touch than perhaps his mother was. He's going through cancer treatment, so people are very conscious of that. So the royals, other than Andrew are actually doing okay. Andrew was a disaster, don't get me wrong. But I don't think that is an existential threat for the monarchy. And I certainly don't think anything that Harry and Meghan will be up to bopping around Australia is going to particularly trouble the likes of King Charles and Prince William and Kate.
- [17:39]
A
And I wanted to ask you about, you know, whether we're mugs, then, for helping to pick up the bill for this visit. And you can walk us through just how much we are or are not paying for the pleasure of having Harry and Meghan visit us. Do you think that this is the moment that we perhaps consider cutting the apron strings with the monarchy? Despite what you've just said, of course, about the popularity of William and Kate and King Charles and so forth.
- [18:05]
B
So Harry and Meghan and their team have been at pains to stress that this trip is privately funded. That's the term that they use. Now, that is true in the sense of they'll pick up the bill for their flights here, accommodation, some of the private security that they will have their own staffing costs, things like that. That is true. Now, if this was a genuine royal visit, all those things would be covered by taxpayers. Normally, what taxpayers will be on the hook for is policing. So there is some talk, I believe, that they may go to the Bondi massacre site. That's unconfirmed. We don't know when that might be. If they were to go there, there would have to be policing there. You can imagine if something went wrong there.
- [18:48]
A
Oh, God, yeah.
- [18:48]
B
What that. You know, what that could. The implications of that. So there will be policing there. We'll pay for that. They're going to go to the footy in Sydney. That's a public event. You know, there will be some policing element at that. There's probably some policing element. When they arrive at the airport and leave all that kind of stu. That sort of policing, we will be on the hook for.
- [19:08]
A
Okay. Devil's advocate, though. While I certainly don't want these people to be harmed here, or anyone for that matter, should we be even on the hook for that, given that they are not working royals? So what. What do we owe them?
- [19:19]
B
Well, Harry's view on. That he has expressed previously is he was born into this system. He was born into fame. He's had paparazzi lenses in his face since he was literally born. So his fame and potential to make him and his family a target is out of his control. And I actually have some sympathy for that. And, you know, I do think a way of looking at this is if something did go wrong while they were here, it would be cataclysmically bad. Yeah. So I think, you know, if they're in a public venue in the same way anyone else that's high profile is if there's some policing there, look, fine. But what we certainly shouldn't be paying for is their Flights, accommodation, staffing, costs. We aren't. And look, you know, whether or not people respond to this, let's see. It's going to be a really fascinating week. It's going to be fascinating to see how these private events go. It's going to be fascinating to see what the public sentiment is towards the end of the week. I may be wrong and, you know, there's this huge outpouring of love and affection for them by the end of the week, but I. I strongly. I strongly doubt that, but we'll see.
- [20:32]
A
Bevan, are you gonna be going to any of the events yourself just to witness it?
- [20:34]
B
Well, we have applied for accreditation to cover some of these things, but I suspect after the piece that we have published today, they might be thinking twice about whether I'm selected in that group of people to go and cover them and.
- [20:47]
A
Sure. And while we don't know how this is gonna pan out in terms of their popularity here, is it possible that Meghan's gonna be mugging us on her way out? Because you pointed out in your piece she's trademarked her as ever lifestyle signaling an impending expansion. I loved how you wrote this. The trademark was accepted for registration in June 2025 under a category titled Bevin. What was it?
- [21:10]
B
Fancy. Which really, when I spotted that, made me laugh for a good five minutes. So, yes, as ever, it was initially partly funded by Netflix. Netflix has called on this deal a little bit.
- [21:22]
A
Wait, is that. Is that because a Go to Hostess gift box of jams, honey and tea will set you back? Wait a minute. How much, Bevin?
- [21:28]
B
132 US. What a steal. It's not going so well as ever. It's jams and honey and candles and all this other kind of crap, and people are not interested in it. They are not buying what she is selling.
- [21:44]
A
Are we going to buy it here, Bevin?
- [21:45]
B
Well, I don't think so. I really don't think so.
- [21:48]
A
Tell us. Tell us what the website declares as ever as being.
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B
It's very modest. It very modestly declares the brand as ever as more than a brand. It's a love language. So if you want to part ways with a few hundred bucks for jam to buy into love language of jam, then be my guest.
- [22:07]
A
Now, would it be fair to say after your column that you think that perhaps money is Harry and Meghan's love
- [22:12]
B
language, I think that would not be inaccurate. No.
- [22:18]
A
Bevan, thanks for your time.
- [22:20]
B
Good to chat. Thank you. Foreign.
- [22:31]
A
Was produced by Josh Towers. Our executive producer is Tammy Mills. And our podcasts are overseen by Lisa Muxworthy and Tom McKendrick. If you like our show, follow the Morning Edition and leave a review for us on Apple or Spotify. Thanks for listening.