The Morning Edition: Matt Canavan on His Love of EVs and Calling Out Pauline Hanson
Podcast by The Age and Sydney Morning Herald | April 9, 2026
Host: Paul Sakal (in for Jacqueline Maley)
Guest: Matt Canavan, Leader of the Nationals
Episode Overview
This episode offers an in-depth interview with Matt Canavan, the newly elected leader of the National Party. Touching on topics ranging from Australia's military justice system to trade, energy, culture wars, and the political threats from One Nation, Canavan shares his perspectives on current events, policy, and the shifting identity of his party. He discusses his strong opposition to Net Zero targets and green energy policies, takes aim at Pauline Hanson’s divisive politics, and reflects on his own values, including how his Catholic faith shapes his worldview.
Key Discussion Points and Insights
1. On the Arrest of Ben Roberts-Smith and Military Justice
[00:52 – 03:13]
- Initial Reaction: Canavan expresses discomfort judging soldiers who serve in extreme conditions, noting deep respect for the military.
- Quote: “I don't feel like I can pass judgment on anybody that has served in our military... I haven't done that.” ([01:01], Canavan)
- Military vs. Civilian Courts: Questions why such cases aren't handled by military tribunals, noting the principle of being "judged by your peers."
- Institutional Pressures: Stresses that systematic military exposure in long wars was a political decision, not only a cultural one.
2. Australia’s Alliance with the US & Strategic Independence
[03:13 – 07:45]
- US Missteps in the Middle East: Canavan reiterates his dissent from mainstream support for US intervention, but argues the alliance should remain strong despite disagreements.
- Quote: “Just because of this particular incident we should not throw the baby out with the bath water.” ([04:21], Canavan)
- Building Self-reliance: Calls for greater defence independence, leveraging Australia’s geographic advantages and abundant resources.
3. Cultural Trends: Nostalgia and National Identity
[07:45 – 15:28]
- Conservatism’s Cultural Moment: Canavan detects a shift, especially among young Australians, towards patriotism and tribalism in response to global uncertainties.
- Quote: “Whenever a society ... placed under external pressure, there is a tendency to bunker back down within the tribe, within the nation.” ([09:54], Canavan)
- Youth Disillusionment: Young people’s frustration over housing affordability, economic insecurity, and government spending, leading to a more conservative outlook.
4. Politics, Short-termism, and Net Zero
[13:21 – 15:36]
- Reflects on the Nationals’ loss of public trust, citing the party’s previous support for Net Zero as a mistake driven by short-term politics.
- Quote: “I think, forgotten why we are in politics and that's not to win elections...Winning elections as a means to those ends.” ([13:53], Canavan)
- Asserts that true conservatism has become obscured in an effort to chase votes.
5. Threat from Pauline Hanson’s One Nation and “Progressive Patriotism”
[15:07 – 17:56]
- Recognizes anger among conservative voters and the growing threat from One Nation.
- Positions the Nationals as having a “strong patriotic approach,” while calling out divisive “identity politics on the right.”
- Suggests Labor has adopted “progressive patriotism” to counter this movement.
6. Trade, Tariffs, and Economic Nationalism
[18:06 – 26:20]
- Declares End of Hawke-Howard Economic Era: Argues for a “new economic revolution” towards protectionism in response to global trade threats.
- On Tariffs: Not calling for universal tariffs, but wants more coherent, targeted protection for critical industries, especially steel.
- Criticizes the EU trade deal and subsidy hypocrisy.
- Quote: “Why does Europe get to act like that? But apparently we can't take some sort of similar action...” ([22:22], Canavan)
7. Party Identity: Nationals vs. Liberals
[26:20 – 29:03]
- Defends Nationals’ distinct voice in the Coalition, advocating for local and manufacturing priorities that resonate beyond regional areas.
- Emphasizes reconnecting with the party’s base rather than diluting its message to win city seats.
8. The Nationals’ Future and the Rise of One Nation
[28:14 – 32:21]
- Stresses the importance of hard work and reconnecting with voters to counter threats from independents and One Nation.
- Admits to loss of trust and “skin” in recent years.
- Quote: “We have lost some trust, we've lost some skin from people. I suppose I'd ask people to look again at us...” ([31:44], Canavan)
9. Migration, Racism, and Standing Up to Hanson
[32:21 – 36:58]
- Recounts backlash after calling out Pauline Hanson’s rhetoric, but stands by a “non-discriminatory” approach to migration.
- Quote: “Nothing more fundamental to me than trying to treat all human beings as sacred individuals...” ([33:06], Canavan)
- Discusses tougher pathways to citizenship and the need for more rigorous, yet non-discriminatory, criteria.
10. Net Zero Debate and Energy Policy
[36:58 – 43:42]
- Net Zero: Proudly led the Nationals away from the Net Zero target, arguing the government is quietly dropping the language.
- Quote: “They’re dropping it like a stone.” ([39:13], Canavan)
- Renewables and Fossil Fuels: Argues too much reliance on renewables is problematic and expensive; supports increased self-sufficiency in traditional fuels.
- EVs and Energy: Despite being an “EV fan,” criticizes government subsidies for favoring the wealthy, calls for targeted support for low- and middle-income Australians.
11. Faith and Policy
[47:23 – 50:16]
- Explores how his Catholic faith encourages a localist, ethical, and subsidiarity-based approach to politics.
- Quote: “There’s a natural law...that every human being is sacred and has individual merit.” ([47:33], Canavan)
12. Abortion and Conscience Issues
[50:16 – 52:49]
- Clarifies that abortion laws are a state matter and individual conscience issue within his party, but expresses discomfort with late-term abortion procedures.
Memorable Quotes
- “I knew I was going to cop backlash from that... but I’m always gonna say what I believe, and nothing more fundamental to me than trying to treat all human beings as sacred individuals.”
— Matt Canavan on calling out Pauline Hanson’s rhetoric ([33:06]) - “Winning elections isn’t the ultimate end. It’s a means to that end.”
— Matt Canavan ([13:53]) - “They’re dropping [Net Zero] like a stone.”
— Matt Canavan ([39:13]) - “If we go in this identity politics on the right where we divide people into tribes... that's going to end our country if we do that.”
— Matt Canavan ([34:11]) - “I love electric cars for a start...”
— Matt Canavan ([43:41])
Timestamped Key Segments
- Military Justice & Ben Roberts-Smith: [00:52 – 03:13]
- Strategic Independence & Alliance: [03:13 – 07:45]
- Cultural & Political Trends: [07:45 – 15:28]
- Nationals’ Brand and Net Zero: [13:21 – 15:36]
- Tariffs and Trade Reform: [18:06 – 26:20]
- Nationals vs. Liberals Identity: [26:20 – 29:03]
- Rural Constituencies & Party Threats: [28:14 – 32:21]
- Migration & Racism in Politics: [32:21 – 36:58]
- Net Zero / Green Energy Policy: [36:58 – 43:42]
- Canavan’s Faith in Politics: [47:23 – 50:16]
- Abortion Laws and Parliamentary Conscience: [50:16 – 52:49]
Notable Moments
- Canavan confronting One Nation’s racial politics: Candid about the online backlash and his refusal to retreat from principle ([32:41 – 34:36]).
- On EVs: A self-described admirer who is frustrated by government policy favoring the wealthy ([43:41 – 45:12]).
- Joking About Faith and Family: Canavan recounts how faith gave him calm during the citizenship saga, but his wife responded: “Jesus can’t pay a mortgage.” ([47:23 – 48:10])
Summary Tone & Takeaways
The conversation is frank, occasionally combative, and illustrative of the stark divisions shaping Australian conservative politics. Canavan blends philosophical and populist language with personal anecdotes, positioning himself as a principled conservative willing to push against both cultural and political currents—from progressive cosmopolitanism to One Nation’s nativism—while keeping a sharp eye on practical, local issues and the wellbeing of his party's rural base.