C (3:06)

So the issue that we had was that it had been such a moving feast. On the Wednesday, the family were still incredibly hopeful. Me and myself and photographer Sam Moy, when we flew in, we met with the family, we sat down with them, and we knew how hopeful they were that this could have a happy ending. They see her, what would you say to her?

D (3:29)

We said something. I was talking on the video. If you see this film, please let me know and tell me straight out, because I want you to listen to me. I want you to send that baby back. That's our baby. It's our kid. You've got your own bigger ones, and our kid is just too small. She. Don't talk. Please, can you bring her back? We want her to be back.

C (4:02)

Of course. When that news dropped on, I think it was midday on the Thursday at that press conference, it was extraordinary to feel that. It felt like, honestly, the air had been sucked out of the room when we were told what had happened.

D (4:16)

Good afternoon. We're here to provide a tragic update on the current status of this investigation. We won't be taking questions at the end of today's meeting.

C (4:27)

Just before midday today to see Police Commissioner, Assistant Police Commissioner Rather, Peter Malley actually tearing up as he delivered the statement that they had found her was just so distressing. So I. The focus right now is to locate Jefferson Lewis, and he's their sole job in this investigation right now. But then, of course, the issue then turned to locating Mr. Lewis. Knowing that it felt like something really awful had happened. And that extraordinary phrase that he used, which was pretty unequivocal, and also to Jefferson Lewis, we're coming for you. Thank you.

A (5:14)

And can you just take a moment to explain to listeners why the little girl has been given a new name that's now being used in media reporting from the one that she used when she was alive?

C (5:24)

So, of course, I can't speak about this with the cultural authority that it would demand, but at its simplest, and what we can share, is that Kumanji is a substitute name for someone who has died in particular Aboriginal language groups. In this case, it's the Warlpurri culture. It's a mark of respect. And essentially it means that by not speaking their name. We don't disturb the spirit of the person who's passed. It's quite similar across a number of language groups who live in Australia's deserts. But of course other language groups have their own practices about sorry, business. So yeah, it is a bit ad hoc but in this instance it is what the family have requested out of respect.

A (6:02)

Okay, well I appreciate that. Well, let's go back to the time, the time of events really, because we then heard that police had apprehended Jefferson Lewis and many of us saw reporting of the scenes outside of the Alice Springs hospital, which of course turned into a riot. Now you were there, so can you talk us about your experience and how it all unfolded?

C (6:23)

Yeah. So it had been an incredibly long day. We started it with Kumanji little baby's family. We went out on the search for her and then we got called to that press conference and went to the memorial for her. But just as our heads hit the pillow that night, I believe it was around 10pm here at the Alice Spring at one of the Alice Springs hotels. I heard a voice shout from the street and a man running, yelling, essentially they got him, they got him. So I stuck my head out on the balcony here and two girls, we share an adjoining balcony. We walked over and showed me the live stream that was happening. So I found, phoned our photographer Sam Moy and off we went. And when we got there there was essentially about 100 people in the car park. It wasn't massive at that point they were yelling at police but that number soon ballooned to over 400 and with it the temperature just climbed and climbed and climbed. It might be hard to hear me right now, but I'm here at Alice Bridges Hospital where a crowd has gathered due to information that the man wanted over the alleged murder of a five year old girl here in Alice Springs has been arrested. Projectiles are being thrown at police, people are crouching behind cars, bricks are being thrown and people are yelling to please give over this man so they can deal with. And what a common thread that we heard yelled throughout it was. The people who were writing said they wanted Lewis to be handed over to them to finish a cultural obligation called payback. They said that it was in their view the police were protecting this man that they believed had allegedly murdered this five year old girl. And they were incredibly unhappy with that. And of course police can't let that happen. They cannot let people get to Lewist until justice is served. So as it got more and more dicey, police started lobbing tear gas into the crowd and firing rubber bullets. Unfortunately, there were a number of children at that event. One instance, I think a boy, I would have said he was around 7 or 8, had copped a face full of tear gas and he just was calling for his mother. And we tried to help him as best as we could, but because there was no wind, the tear gas was just sitting. And then behind us, a cop car goes up in flames and nearby service stations, windows are kicked in. Paramedics are meanwhile trying to rush a woman who was giving birth in the middle of the riot into the hospital. It was just absolute chaos.

A (8:42)

And so this really is a microcosmic example, isn't it, of the tensions that I guess play out in this particular community and presumably in other communities around Australia where there's, know, police protecting someone, sort of white man's law, I guess. And then the guttural anger of. From a community that's demanding their own form of justice. Right.

C (9:01)

And this goes back to when Jefferson Lewis was first captured. So police told us initially he wandered into a camp in Charles Creek, which is sort of like a suburb here in Alice Springs, I would say late on Thursday night. And people who recognized him immediately set upon him. He was flogged and suffered really serious head injuries in that process before a detective intervened who was also injured in that process. Ambul workers transported him to the hospital. In that time, there was this perception that the police had interfered with this traditional practice of retribution. And locals told us that police should have let the community handle it. But of course they can't stand by and watch someone likely end up dead. And as a result, retribution in some people's view, has been left unfinished and needs to be completed. And we're not capable of saying obviously what form that will come. And police are telling us that they've got extra resources ready to go if something kicks off again. But yeah, this is far from over, I would say.

A (10:00)

And do you have any sense of what Kumanjaya little baby's family wanted at that time and. And wants now?

C (10:07)

So they. Firstly and foremost, I just want to say they love that little girl. They are beautiful people at this moment. They just want to grieve, they want to complete sorry business which began yesterday and they want the town to remain calm again. Robin said in a statement earlier this week that the violence at the hospital wasn't a true reflection of the Alice Springs he knows and has thrown to. Just days before, Alice Springs locals were walking arm in arm with police and authorities, like walking through this buffalo grass to try and find this little girl. And Robin said that it's been really hard for them to marry these two different perspectives of. They're also contending with a lot on social media. They said that he feels like they're being laughed at by some members of the community and asked for people to find some empathy for what they were experiencing.

A (10:57)

Well, I really wanted to ask you about that. Now, you've mentioned Robin Granites there, and that is Kumanjaya Little Baby's kinship grandfather. And I want to ask you about what he told you, that the family was being laughed at by some on social media, because that sounds well beyond cruel and astounding, given the circumstances. So what are people saying? And did you get the sense that this horrific incident may actually spark even greater prejudice against indigenous people? Because certainly that comment from Robyn is just heartbreaking.

C (11:27)

Yeah, it has been incredibly difficult to hear. Before Kumadray Little Baby's body had been found, we were sitting with members of the family at Old Timers Camp, and they were pulling up videos on TikTok and on Instagram showing us people commenting about the little girl's living situation and how people should have been looking after her in a better way or something like that. And they were just absolutely distraught because they believe that in. Again, from what I've experienced, that little girl was very, very loved. And I think it's just been really distressing for them to feel that they are being judged in this moment of absolute grief.

A (12:04)

And. And just to be clear, is the reason they were judged because there was photographs of the home, which was, you know, very basic, I guess.

C (12:11)

Yeah, that is definitely a large part of it. There is not much investigation in these sorts of camps. There isn't much you can really do to understand the situation of living there unless you have been in it yourself. There's a playground out the back. I was saying if I was a little kid living in there, I would be having the time of my life. We walked past the other day, a bunch of kids were eating ice creams in the buffal grass and walking in the riverbed. It. It just depends, I suppose, on what you think is a good upbringing. And I feel like he feels a lot of views are being imposed on him that maybe is not accurate to his experience.

A (12:47)

And. And then police were actually forced to chopper Jefferson Lewis out of Alice Springs because of potential dangers to him. And of course, the threats from outside of people wanting to. To enact some sort of retribution. And as we're recording this on Sunday, near Lunchtime. There's been some further development. So tell us what's happened.

C (13:07)

There has been. So Lewis was formally charged with the murder of Common Jai Little Baby. Northern Territory police have. They have every intention of following this through as well. So there is a few outstanding matters they want to deal with. Whether Lewis was being hidden by someone, those kinds of things. But at this stage, we do know that that murder charge is now formally before the courts and he will be appearing in a Darwin local court sometime next week. It has been a choice for his safety and also for the safety of the police officers who were guarding him, to take him out of, I guess, the hotbed that is Alice Springs at the moment. So many have. Many locals here have praised that decision and said it has helped turn that temperature down.

A (13:50)

And so tell us what the streets of Alice Springs are like now.

C (13:55)

It's. From what I can see and what I have witnessed over the last few days, it is just quiet and sad. Some businesses have closed up either out of respect or concerned that things may flare up again. But one thing that I do want to highlight is that Old Timers camp is covered in flowers, candles, cards, all remembering the little girl. There has been a consistent flow of people to that entrance of the camp since the news broke and it has been really beautiful to see that the local coles has run out of flowers. People are doing their absolute best to make sure that she's remembering, but it's still sort of sitting at this. Everyone is just sort of desperately sad and there is still that undercurrent of frustration and anger, particularly today after the detail of his charge came out. There has been some, I guess, disgust with that as well. But it's still very much like the aftermath of a bushfire at the moment. Everything's still smoking. A spot fire will go up every now and then and everyone just looks a little shell stopped. But at the behind of that, everyone is sort of pulling together and trying to remember that a lot of what the community is focusing on now is healing. There was a church service this morning for people to gather. The food bank has been set up outside of the sorry business camp. The people of Alice Springs just want to, I guess, move forward as best as they can.

A (15:16)

And just on that point, I guess, about the sadness that people are feeling and the grief. I wanted to ask you about something that Katie Kiss, aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander social justice Commissioner, has said. And she said, quote, I cannot recall a time when the disappearance of an Aboriginal child has received this level of urgent attention from law enforcement. My greatest hope is that Kumanjaya Little Baby's short life becomes a turning point. That in this country the life of an indigenous child is valued, protected and pursued with the same urgency as any other child. I just wanted to ask your reflections on that.

C (15:50)

I suppose that like I it's very important I think for people to understand here that law enforcement have always cared about children in these sorts of situations. But it is incredibly fair to say that this is the biggest response I have ever seen in terms of a missing indigenous child becoming essentially front page news for across the country. It's been buoying, I would say, to see everyone really care about this little girl. The donation points that have been set up, people are already pouring money into them. It is a really big flashpoint that hopefully will become the example for time in the future about how we treat these cases.

A (16:37)

And just to wrap up, Hannah, I wanted to ask you about, you know, your time spent with Kumenjaya little babies family, if there was something about the way that they hope she'll be remembered or perhaps a moment with them that you won't forget about what they've told you about this little girl.

C (16:51)

I really just want to highlight their graciousness. They are incredibly lovely, kind people and their prevailing memories of Kumanjay little Baby is the fact that she was like every five year old little girl. She had a cat named Yellow, she loved holding her grandmother's hand and get walked around the community. She was obsessed with her iPad and would wear dresses that made her look like a little queen. But she was absolutely loved beyond belief and it has been so gorgeous to sit and in such an awful moment witness that love.

A (17:30)

Well, thank you so much Hannah for your time.

C (17:34)

Thank you.

A (17:42)

Today's episode of the Morning Edition was produced by Tammy Mills. To listen to our episodes as soon as they drop, follow the Morning Edition on Apple, Spotify or wherever you listen to podcasts. Our newsrooms are powered by subscriptions, so to support independent journalism, visit theage or smh.com ausubscribe and to stay up to date, sign up to our Morning Edition newsletter to receive a summary of the day's most important news in your inbox every morning. Links are in the show Notes. I'm Samantha Sellinger Morris. Thanks for listening.